Latest / STOPTIME: Live in the Moment. / Sean Panikkar: Free From the Burden of Perfection (Recorded January 2022)

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Sean Panikkar: Free From the Burden of Perfection (Recorded January 2022) · STOPTIME: Live in the Moment.

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to leave a review and to follow or subscribe.
• 0:30
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• 0:34
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• 0:37
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• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for listening.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Stop Time Podcast.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Lisa Hopkins, and I'm here to engage you in thought-provoking motivational conversations around practicing the art of living in the moment.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a certified life coach, and I'm excited to dig deep and offer insights into embracing who we are and where we are at.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: He recently returned from performances abroad at the Salzburg Festival in Austria and the English National Opera at the London Coliseum.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: America's Got Talent fans may remember him from the show's topping performances as a member of Forte, the operatic tenor trio, combining voices from different cultures into one incredible sound.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is my great pleasure to introduce you all today to Sean Panicar.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Sean.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me, Lisa.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you calling in from today?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where are you?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I am in Celine, Michigan, which is my home.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's so great.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So how long have you been home?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: You've been on the road, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just got home this weekend.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've been gone with the exception of five days.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have been gone since July 2nd.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 2:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Salzburg, Austria.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: My family was all with me in Austria.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Came home for five days, celebrated my son's 10th birthday, and then was off to London.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: How wonderful for them that they got to travel with you.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it's one of the benefits of having a father who travels a lot for work.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever they're free, whenever they're free, they travel with me.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: As they get older, my daughter's 13 now.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: She used to travel quite a bit.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We homeschool both of them.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that made it a lot easier when they were little to travel with me.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would just pick one of them up, or both of them up, and we just hit the road, and my wife would get a break at home, and uh we'd have great adventures on the road.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Funny when I was researching you a little bit, um, I read something about your wife.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is it true that uh that it was because of her that you actually sort of pursued music?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: 1000%.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's kind of been, I guess there's a trend.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: When I was, if we go back further in middle school, my choir, I had a huge crush on my choir director in middle school.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of why I started uh trying to be in the select ensembles.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that was kind of the first introduction to it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I met my wife the first day of school at the University of Michigan uh as a freshman, I was 17 years old, she was 18, and she was in choir, she was a trumpet major, um, but also was in a piano studio and a voice studio.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Her master's is in conducting.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's very, I mean, she's multi-talented, much more talented than I am.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just happened to focus on one thing.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she just caught my eye across the room in choir.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I looked at the conductor at all that day.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just was staring at her, and I was very, very shy.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I found out she was a pianist.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was a double major at the University of Michigan.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I needed an accompanist for my voice lessons.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of my entry point.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I, you know, I paid her to be my accompanist, and that's how I got to spend time with her, and we got to be the best of friends.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't start dating till the end of our sophomore year.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: But by the time we started dating, we were best friends, and it's been that way ever since.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so beautiful.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: What was it that attracted her, attracted you about her?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: She was gorgeous and she smiled all the time.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: She just had a joy that I had never seen in anybody in my life.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: She had an inner joy that just radiated from her, and it was something that was really captivating, wanted me to get to know her more.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really infectious.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm she is seriously my best friend.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: I share everything with her, and it's just been that way since the the time we met.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's so amazing.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So much has shifted, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Since 2020 in the world.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: What are the most significant shifts that you've uh experienced during this time, would you say?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, at the start of the pandemic, I was in the middle of what was meant to be about a three and a half month stretch abroad.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Family was in Michigan.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I had just finished not the final dress rehearsal, but the penultimate dress rehearsal for the rise and fall of City of Mahagoni by Kurt Weil.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we were about to start the final act of the opera, and the general director of the company came on stage and she announced that the Netherlands had imposed uh a semi-lockdown, that they weren't going to allow an audience into the theater.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so they had to cancel the show through the end of March.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I did not think the pandemic was anything.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was just assuming it's like I mean, every few years there's something that comes up and they say, Oh, this is going to be a crazy pandemic, and usually nothing major comes of it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought nothing of it.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I uh in the short term, I was like, Oh, this is great.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I get to go home.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've been gone for so long, I just want to be home with my wife and kids.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought they said this was only till the end of March.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: We still had performances in April.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I'd be able to return to Amsterdam, finish the run, and then just go on about the regular schedule.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I came home, I was thrilled, hadn't seen my dog.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: We had gotten a dog in the fall uh of that year and or fall of 19.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hadn't been around the dog much other than three or four weeks because I was working.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was excited to be home with my wife, the kids, the dog.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was just like a series of dominoes because I had a very, very busy schedule.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just one after another, things just started canceling.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was it was a thankfully, all of my work, all of my major work was in Europe because uh in Europe, the arts are largely government funded, and so they were still paying percentages of the contracts, even though they were canceling.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was it fell all fell within force majeure, but they still gave us some of the money, whereas a lot of the American houses weren't paying their artists anything.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: The Metropolitan Opera just cut everybody off, nothing too.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand, you know, they're in a business too, but I'm just tremendous, tremendously grateful that the European companies were able to uh give us a little bit, which was able to sustain us through this.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I was I was thrilled to be home, but then I realized how much I missed what I do.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it had gotten to the point where I've been traveling so much that when I was leaving for a job, I was always like, oh, do I have to go?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I want to go.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe I should do something else because I really am missing time with my family.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: My kids are growing up so fast.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: The pandemic got my priorities in order and also galvanized my love for the art form and how much I needed it, which I didn't always realize.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I loved what I was doing when I was doing it, but I didn't realize I couldn't have imagined how much I would have missed not doing, not being in a in a rehearsal room, being on an opera stage and experiencing the the joy of performing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it really was a it was a time of just kind of restructuring priorities, just realizing you know, what do you actually need to survive?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: What can you get rid of?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of decluttering my life and living joyfully in the moment.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: That really happened in the pandemic.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it totally changed my outlook as we're going getting back into work.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're not out of the pandemic, but we're slowly coming back in terms of performing arts organizations performing again.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just, I have a renewed sense of joy every time I'm able to experience making art.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just such a special, unique thing.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And in a lot of ways, I'm thankful for it for the extended time off because it really helped me not take it for granted.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that comes out crystal clear.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: To me, what I'm hearing is that you were getting caught kind of in the race, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you were you were doing it, you loved it, you loved what you did, you loved your family, you were balancing it, you were making it happen.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But perhaps it's given you the perspective to realize how much and and your why, reconnect to your why.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well would you say, what would you say your why is?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I understand as a as a fellow artist, I understand, but it's personal, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can we get a little more granular with with what it is for you?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's hard to say.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was growing up, my parents emigrated from Sri Lanka.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: My brother was born in Sri Lanka.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was born in the United States in Pennsylvania, and uh just as they're very much uh Asian parents.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so they they threw me into music at an early age.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So at three years old, I started playing Suzuki violin, six years old, started playing piano.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: By fifth grade, I was playing trombone, by seventh or eighth grade, I was playing saxophone, played trombone through college.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was singing uh in choirs from elementary school, and it was just all part of a well-rounded education, not something that my parents ever thought or wanted me to pursue as a career.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to the University of Michigan just because I had a great private voice teacher in high school.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking to pad my resume for colleges for engineering.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: My dream in life had always been to have a construction company.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do civil engineering as an undergrad and do a master's in architecture and have like an all-purpose construction company.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to pad my resume for the University of Michigan when I was applying to school.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a woman in our uh town, and she was a Juilliard-trained soprano.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: My mother had met her uh years before when they first moved there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in the winters in Pennsylvania, my mom used to walk in the mall, and she met this lady walking in the mall and found out that she was a music teacher, but had nobody to teach because in my small town in central Pennsylvania, nobody cared about opera.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so my mom was like, Oh, well, my son's interested in music, maybe I'll send him to you.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I went.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, at the time, this is probably when I was in sixth grade, and my musical taste at that time was like Michael Jackson, Billy Joel, and Elton John.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was going to sing, I just wanted to play the piano and sing pop music.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so she made me sing Michael Jackson like an opera singer, which is I wish I had a recording of this because I can you imagine like a fifth or sixth grader trying to sound like an opera singer singing Michael Jackson music.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so that lasted maybe three or four lessons before I'm like, I told my parents, I'm like, this is this is absurd.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is a waste of time.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I do this?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to sound like that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but in high school, when I was trying to pad my resume, there are these choral competitions in Pennsylvania and they go kind of level by level.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So county, district, regional, state.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh well, if I could get to the state level, I'm like, who was I?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like had no idea what I was even getting into.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, but if I could get to the state level, that would look great on a resume.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get into the University of Michigan for engineering, it'll be great.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the to this lady, Lee Ping Liu, and started taking voice lessons every day.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was terrified to sing in front of my parents, so I would never, they never heard me sing, ever.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Never in life.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not even not in the shower, nothing.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would just do lessons with her every day.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my practice time and my lesson time.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would go to school, have my sports practice, then go to her house, have lessons.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And she's the one that really trained me uh at the beginning stages of being an opera singer.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up advancing through the levels of competition.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I went to the All-State, Pennsylvania uh choral festival.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, I got to sing at my high school graduation.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: First time my parents ever heard me sing.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Also, my first standing ovation, which was just it was all just so surreal to me.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so then she's like, I had gotten into the University of Michigan then, uh, and she said, you know, Sean, they have a really great music school.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just apply?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to send in a tape.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but I want you to know that you're good enough to do it if you chose to do it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I sent in the application, and that's why I got in as a double major.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And only because of my wife, as I mentioned before, did I stick with it because I would have happily quit after the first week and just focused on engineering.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then by my junior year, I at that point had started to get kind of okay at singing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a lot of people around me that were telling me that I could do this as a career if I wanted to.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then my senior year, I decided that I was just going to focus on music.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And once I focused on music, it was like just a tremendous burden had been lifted off my shoulders.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that that's what I was supposed to do.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Since I decided to only pursue music, I've always felt like wherever I was, that's exactly where I was supposed to be in that moment.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't think of a more affirming way to know that what you're doing is right than feeling like you are where you were supposed to be.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even in the pandemic, when I wasn't working and those jobs were canceled, I was right where I was supposed to be.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not to say that every month or so there's one or two days where I was just severely depressed because I'm like, the world is ending and I'm never going to get to work again.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But having that realization that you are where you're supposed to be in that moment and just making the most of that with joy, regardless of the situation around you, is what kind of made me know that music is what I wanted to do.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so interesting, too, because what I what I remarked on was you might have said, and when I went out on the stage and finally came out, and my parents heard me and they stood up, I knew, but that wasn't the moment.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't the applause, the standing ovation.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was, in fact, that sounds like that was perhaps maybe just a little bit of the pragmatic side of you going, oh, I guess I might be good at this.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's so funny.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: That has always been secondary to me.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: The audience and the applause, that's always secondary.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of performers, there are probably a lot of performers that are like that, but don't say it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: For me, the rehearsal process has always been where I get the most joy out of, because that's where I'm experiencing everything for myself.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of my selfish time.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the relationships with the people in the room, the discovery, if you're doing a world premiere, the whole creation of it, the creativity that goes into building a show is what really gets my juices flowing.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Once we get into tech week and we're going about the business of uh putting the show on for an audience, that totally changes things for me.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that I don't love it, it's just that there's one step removed emotionally from everything because it's no longer about me doing things for myself, it's about me doing something that uh brings about emotions out of an audience.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a level of removal that has to happen for a singer anyway, where you can't sing and cry your face off when you're on stage because then you're not doing your job well and you're not getting the emotion out of the audience.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So in the rehearsal room is when I get to have those emotions and I experiencing that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So my joy is in the rehearsal room and developing the relationships with everybody in the room.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Once you're on stage, it's a totally different thing.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh I appreciate the applause.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I love when when standing ovations happen.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: I loved that in in London, uh, every performance there were standing ovations.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: They loved the show, but I'm not, I'm not um, I definitely don't think that was me.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the composer that wrote the music.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's the the director that that created this vision.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: My job is to be a good steward of their visions.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: I totally give all the credit to them for that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I just get to play a small part, and I that's what I love about it.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really you've sort of what you described sort of conjures up for me the the difference between the the sort of infinite mindset, which is what you're you're able to take on during rehearsal, because you don't know what's gonna happen.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're letting go, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're in the zone.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when it moves into production, um, then it becomes a finite game.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, because you have you've got deadlines and you've got to finish and you've got to show up in a different way.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing, too, is when I was just starting out, when even when I was in college, when I had to sing solos, I was terrified.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Terrified.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Just uh just to open my mouth and sing by myself was something that even to this day, I don't ever want to be left on stage alone.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Being left alone on stage and singing in Aria by myself is like the worst experience for me.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I so much rather have would rather have somebody else's energy on stage with me, even if they're not doing anything.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just to feel that changes everything for me.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there came a point where it's so funny when people ask about stage fright, because that's a very natural thing when you go out on stage in front of thousands of people, you get a little nervous.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh it it reached a point by the time I was doing my master's degree, I just said, it's not worth being it's not worth having stage fright.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna be nervous anymore.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because what's the point?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm gonna do that and be miserable, then I shouldn't do this.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have a weird personality in that I can just shut things off.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do there's just things in life where I just say, okay, I'm I'm done with that and it's done.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so going on stage with an attitude of fearlessness, that happens as soon as I walk on the stage.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: In the rehearsal room, I have that fear still because I know that I'm cultivating what I need to do on stage.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: But in the moment I go out and I'm like, it's gonna be what it's gonna be, because live theater is full of mistakes and letting go and just being in the moment and saying, okay, it's it's gonna be flawed, it's never gonna be perfect, but it's gonna be what it is in that moment, and it's gonna be right for that moment, is what has really liberated me as a performer.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I just walk out on stage and I'm just like, this is it for today.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be what it is.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I crack on a note, that's what you get today.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and usually it just makes my performing so much better because I'm I'm free of the burden of perfection.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes so much it makes so much sense because we can't control things that we can't control, right?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, you put in the work as much as you can beforehand, and then once you're in the moment, that's what it is.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta let it go.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which kind of segues us beautifully to your definition of living in the moment, which is, I mean, would you would you want to sort of expound on that at all?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it's a it's a hyper awareness of everything that's happening.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: That awareness of everything that's happening is what keeps you in the moment.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: A focus on all the experiences that are happening around you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can apply that to everything in life.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm at home, you know, being in the moment, being with my kids, being with my wife, playing with the dog.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's all these things that that you are experiencing.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're aware of everything that's happening and not just like glued to your phone or glued to technology, then you get to experience a different level of fullness.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I see as being in the moment, just experiencing uh everything that's available to you.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't always do that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm there's of course there's times where I haven't given uh a hundred percent of my home time to.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: my kids or the dog or my wife or whatever.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: But uh striving for that is what really kind of brings me joy.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I always I always find it interesting too that um somehow there's there's almost a limiting belief that that we're supposed to.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it is a great thing obviously and obviously I'm a I'm a proponent of it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it is interesting that like often people's uh answers are like, well, I don't do it often but this is what it's like and I should do it more.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting, isn't it?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think what they're really saying is that when they're there, when they know it for themselves, when it's a a visceral feeling, when they're in the moment and they've experienced it, they want more of that.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's an adrenaline rush.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: You just get it's a and and performers experience it frequently when you're doing your job.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's just just like it's an incredible thing to be in the moment in performance, which is slightly different obviously than being in the moment in everyday life because you don't have that immediate feedback and affirmation.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there's there's nothing quite like it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you can take that off the stage and translate it into your everyday life, it's amazing.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, 100%.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna ask you to um if you're willing to put humility aside for a moment and well tell me beyond what's so sort of eminently clear about you know what makes you special, what would you what would you say are your unique gifts?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like to pat myself on the back.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I am a very hard worker and that's that's something that um that people don't get to see I practice more than most I would say and I always do it in the morning.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to do it when I'm at my least vocal level of vocal readiness.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So because so often singers like to practice when they're feeling great.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you only do that, I can't think of any opera singer that has said to me that they've ever done a performance where they have felt 100% ever because then the nature of having your instrument inside of your body it's just never going to be it's it's just never going to be perfect.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of doing the work at the worst possible time sets me up so that if it's just even minimally better, if it's a little just an hour later in the day, it feels great compared to what I had been doing.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if I can get it to an acceptable level at a horrible time first first thing in the morning then those evening shows feel great.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what really helps me is that I do put in the practice work first thing in the morning when I don't want to even open my mouth.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's really interesting.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: If we had more time I would really dig into that because I find it really fascinating and I'll tell you why two things and um one is that um when I asked I asked you what your unique gifts were and you said that you're a hard worker and then you wanted to describe um it's interesting because it really it really leaned into I mean I think I think it would be safe to say anyone that works on all the stuff that that you do and that takes care of a family the way you do and shows up on time for things you know and all these things would probably recognize that you're a hard worker would you would you say that's fair?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would hope so yeah hardworking and reliable I think I think that's uh being reliable is something and that's just the thing for life you know if I say I'm gonna do something I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna do it to the best of my ability regardless of whether it's singing or going to help somebody or whatever it is I'm gonna do it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: If I say I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and working smarter not harder to I think that's say that again that's working smarter not harder.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Learning there's not only one way to do stuff right and also sounds like it's not so much a technical or a tool thing but rather it's something that in your mindset sets you up for success.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree with that?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning that if if I can do this in the morning then later it won't matter because I'm gonna be I'm gonna be more ready anyway.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So much so much of performing is mental so much of it is just like anything and just like any sport.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you can have the skills but you have to be mentally in a place where you know it's going to work and trust it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah 100% it's a it's a lot of mental exercise and and preparing your mind to know that you can do it later.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: In the little questionnaire that I sent you um I'm curious about something you said I think I asked what three adjectives might you best use to describe yourself and you said joyful grateful and hardworking and when I asked what three adjectives might acquaintances use you prefaced it with that's tough.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting to me.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to ask you why um and then you sort of said well but probably the same as the previous question there wasn't much clarity about that or access to that.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me tell me more if that resonates you said that's tough.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just so curious.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I well I think it goes back to just not I think it's an ego thing with me.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a big ego and it's weird to say that you don't have a big ego when you're talking about things like this.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um gosh I I try to be I try to be a good colleague and do my job well or a good friend to people but I kind of I beat myself up a lot about things and so I don't I don't always see what people would admire or appreciate in myself.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that is just always being self-critical and I think that's what it's it's a double edged sword because in one sense I I beat myself up about a lot of things but at the same time that's what's helped me to be um as reliable of a performer as I am because I do beat myself about things if that makes any sense.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I it's it's hard to say I I don't even know how to phrase it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: What what would people say about me?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't do things for congratulations or rewards.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do things because it's the right thing to do.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you know if I if I get a pat on the back for it, great.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't oh well I I feel okay knowing that I did what I was supposed to do or what I wanted to do or that I was helpful to somebody else.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: You indicated um that you're hard on yourself if I heard you correctly but that that's really helped you get where you are yeah for for instance every time I go into a rehearsal room I said I used to just travel with a digital recorder.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now I just you can do it on your phone.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I just would just place it down I record everything and then every day after work I pick it apart and say okay this could be better.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: This was okay what can I do to make this sound nicer so I'm constantly listening and evaluating as if I'm my own teacher and uh hearing what worked what didn't work and always trying to improve but I let that all go as soon as I walk on on stage do you remember the moment that was it Josh that called you yes for Forte.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah for Forte I I had just finished uh a run of LaboM in Fort Worth Texas I was flying home got home and then got a call and this group for I did I had never seen America's got talent so I never watched a show like that in my life and they had competed on the the first round of the show one of their members it's a it's a tenor trio and one of their members had a student visa and for the show's purposes you needed to have a different kind of visa to stay in the competition and so um they either had to leave the show or find a new member and so Josh the only reason that I agreed to do it was because he didn't want me to sound like a crossover pop tenor uh he wanted me to sound like myself and so I flew to Las Vegas and that was their their second round my first round met these guys that are totally strangers total strangers yeah totally different backgrounds and I thought okay well I the only reason I did is like how often do you get a chance to be on national TV?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that sounded like fun.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we did that and we advanced and every round I thought surely this is the last round and we're done with it was fun you know we'll be done and we just kept advancing.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the show only gave us one hotel room and so one of the other guys used the hotel room uh and Josh and I ended up living together that whole summer and he he had the relatives that had an apartment in New York they weren't there for the summer and so we lived together that whole summer and that's kind of how our friendship was just kind of forged in the fire of being on a in a high pressure situation performing in front of millions of people on national TV without having any kind of relationship.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that bond was just like we are totally totally different people but he is one of my very best friends.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it was just a magical experience it was a magical summer to get to be finalists on on America's Got Talent and uh we got a recording contract and we we we did we've done two albums that's so cool that again you're just like the why not that's why not when else would I get to do this right I I think that's cool that you just stepped in kind of just trusting the process and and things like you things in life happen and you're like okay why did that happen?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: There they're random things like even right after that I was cast in a movie and it was so surreal because there was a the Terrence McNally uh Broadway show masterclass they were turning it into a movie Meryl Streep was going to play Maria Callas and Mike Nichols was directing and so they called me in to do like a script reading which I'd never done in my life a script reading and to sing uh for Mike Nichols and Terrence McNally and so I'm totally oblivious even to because that's not my world at all.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was not like intimidated by going into a room and and performing in front of Mike Nichols because I had nothing to lose I never thought I would be in that situation anyway.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But seeing the people outside in the room they were so stressed out of their minds because they're about to go meet Mike Nichols and so I I go in did it we had a it was a great audition uh he he hired me on the spot and uh a week later he died and Terrence called me and he's like literally the day before he died he was rewriting the character so the character didn't have an Italian background but had a Sri Lankan background you know they were they were working on on changing the script so it fit me and then he died and I'm like well what why would I get cast in a movie with Meryl Streep to only have the director die and nothing come out of it and there's this these random things that happen in life that you're just like what was the point of that what was the point of that and I still I have no idea what was the point of that you never know but these things pop up and you're just like hmm that's interesting.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah wonder why that is hopefully I'll find out someday I absolutely to be continued right maybe we'll be speaking again you'll be like well this is what happened that's so cool um how do you how do you want to be remembered I want to be remembered as a good father and I think I that's it I don't care if anybody thinks anything of my singing or performing I can't think of anything better than a better role in life than than raising my children.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard because when you're traveling there there's there is a level of guilt when you're on the road away from your family.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I just want them to remember me as a loving father who really cared about them and was doing everything that I thought was in their best interest.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah no I love that that's beautiful can you can you finish this phrase uh most people think Sean Panakar is but the truth is that is tough most people think you know off the top of my head I would say in just in the context of working I would say that a lot of people think I'm antisocial but really I am fiercely protective of my family and the the reason those two go hand in hand is because I don't go and socialize with coworkers when I'm working because a lot of bad things happen on the road.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's just about protecting myself and my family not to say that I would even do anything but to never put myself in a situation where that could happen.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So because of that I think a lot of people think I'm kind of standoffish.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you you really have a really firm grip on who you are who you want to be how you emanate in the world.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say if anything is your biggest challenge showing up the way you want to show up the biggest challenge for me is that my heart is always with my family and I'm when I'm on the road it's really tough.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I if there was a way selfishly I wish they were with me all the time but I know that's not what's best for them.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: That that's the thing is it's kind of like I love the performing but I love my family more.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: If there was a way to keep them all together all the time I would do it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that would come at the sacrifice of their joy uh the the nice thing about it is that in the summer they always go with me.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we have fantastic adventures in the summer for months at a time that I can't be in two places at once is is the huge challenge for me.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah life has gone by so fast so fast it just like uh a blink of the eye and my kids to have a 10 year old and a 13 year old just boggles my mind because I feel inside like I'm in my mid-20s and I'm not uh but the greatest joy in my life is being their father and so it's that's those kind of split allegiances when you're even though I'm working and enjoying that and doing it for them not being physically present with them is hard.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that that's that's beautiful really and it's who you are you know it's a big part of who you are it's beautiful.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um before we finish I'm gonna say what makes you and I'm just gonna say a word and it doesn't have to be rapid fire sometimes it can be but it doesn't have to be you ready okay I'll try what makes you hungry what makes me hungry yeah gosh that's tough.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: What makes me hungry it depends on what you're talking about.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh what makes me hungry what was the first thing that came into your mind of food like cake yes and then the second thing that came into your mind was then I was thinking well how do I apply that to life and family yeah see you made it a directive yeah but isn't it funny how we do that but but but what I love is that like like when I asked you and you were honest so thank you and I said to you well what was the first thing and you said well it was cake but you edited it you didn't say that yeah your your brain came in your controlling brain came in and was like ooh she might be looking for something more isn't that interesting how we do that yeah yeah so it's it's just great to uh you know file that away and go huh where else do I do that?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: What else am I am I not sort of just am I editing that that might actually be true.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes you know you like cake man I love it well imagine that you're human all right so here we go what makes you sad unfairness people being treated badly people being unfair to people really gets me down yeah yeah what um what makes you feel inspired going out into nature and seeing creation it's just the uh you know when you're around art art there's such beautiful art but nothing compares to the beauty of nature that's outside what frustrates you people that don't do their work well really really really gets at me if people aren't prepared if people aren't on time it doesn't bother me if somebody makes a mistake but if they repeatedly make a mistake over and over and over and over again without fixing it that really aggravates me.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Fair what makes you laugh my children endless endless laughter at home and they bring out the silly side of me so we just make each other laugh and it's just being so goofy.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just I love being goofy because in in my job I'm not goofy I'm very put together at work but at home with my kids and and my wife I'm silly I'm very silly I love that that's so beautiful you light up when you say it too it's really beautiful.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: What makes you angry I it's the same thing with with fairness I think I I think uh the fairness lack of grace politics makes me angry and finally what makes you grateful what are you grateful for I'm grateful for family I'm grateful for health grateful to wake up in the morning grateful to have a job grateful to have a house over my head um grateful for the life that has been given to me what are the top three things that have happened so far today talking to you has been pretty great yeah it's it's nice it's nice to verbalize things that you're feeling inside because you go through life so often without knowing them but not always sharing them.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's nice to to share those things.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are you most looking forward to Sean?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to some sense of normalcy and being able to freely be with people without being concerned about my health and their health the performing arts has been so affected by COVID.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I think the audiences are realizing how much they need it because people don't want to do everything virtually yeah here.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: It has been such a joy speaking with you thank you so much for taking the time Sean thank you Lisa I appreciate it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I've been speaking today with Sean Panikar thanks for listening.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Stay safe and healthy everyone and remember to live in the moment in music stop time is that beautiful moment where the band is suspended in rhythmic unison supporting the soloists to express their individuality in the moment I encourage you to take that time and create your own rhythm.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time I'm Lisa Hopkins thanks for listening.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode I invite you to dive deeper into cultivating a life of creative possibilities with my new book The Places Where There Are Spaces.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's filled with personal stories and insights to help you embrace living in the moment.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can grab your copy by following the link in the show notes or wherever books are sold.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let's keep the conversation going and growing