Latest / The Permission Slip / S2 | E2 Deborah Servetnick - Life Mastery Coach
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- S2 • E2 Deb === Deborah Servetnick: Recording in progress, Matt Kosterman: and so it's Sernik. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Cool. All right. Matt Kosterman: Hi, this is mad, and we're back with another episode of the permission slip. Today I am here with Grateful Deb Sernik. She is coming to us from the city of Baltimore, Maryland in the United States, and Deb is a many things. She wears lots of cool masks. She's a life mastery coach, a psychedelic and dating coach, a body worker, breath worker, vibrational medicine woman, and the founder and CEO of a nonprofit called Serve Medicine. Matt Kosterman: Did I get all that? Deborah Servetnick: Um, Matt Kosterman: is, is there more? Deborah Servetnick: Got it all by one o'clock to one 30 by three o'clock. I'm gonna be 10 more things. Matt Kosterman: So you'll be 10 more things by three. Okay, great. Okay, good, Deborah Servetnick: good. Like Alice in Wonderland, you know. Matt Kosterman: Well, welcome Deb. Thanks for being here today. Deborah Servetnick: Thank you. Matt Kosterman: Uh, it's good to see you again. Matt Kosterman: Uh, so today I think I wanna talk about two of my favorite subjects, which are psychedelics and body work. Two of the things that have been, um, tremendously helpful in my own healing journey over the last, I don't know, 57 years. Is that how long my healing journey's been? Almost next month. It'll be 57 years, but about 10 years. Matt Kosterman: Um, so Deb, give us a little bit of your background. How did you get into all of these things? Deborah Servetnick: Hmm? Matt Kosterman: When was your first psychedelic experience? Deborah Servetnick: Oh, that's easy one. I think I was about 17 at a Grateful Dead show. Matt Kosterman: Of course, Deborah Servetnick: in, in, uh, state College, Pennsylvania. That's the first time I did acid. And, uh, I remember going into the bathroom and I had to go to the bathroom, remember sitting on the toilet and going for the toilet paper and just scrolling it up down and scrolling it up and scrolling down and scrolling on up and thinking, how long have I been in here, Matt Kosterman: Uhhuh? Deborah Servetnick: And, you know, and just, I, I mean, I had no plans to come out except then I remember there was really good music out there, but I could have been real happy just playing with that. Just playing Matt Kosterman: with the toilet paper. Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah, just watching it. So I, I mean, that was an early experience and that kind of set the tone for everything because as a deadhead, you know, we already know, you know, I was really big on the history of the Grateful Dead and the Pranksters and Matt Kosterman: Uhhuh, Deborah Servetnick: um, and just the whole understanding of vibrational music and, um. Deborah Servetnick: And, and fast forward to where I am now, which is more than 50 years as a deadhead and, um, and knowing that, you know, Bobby gets up there all the time and forgets the words, but that's not new. He's been doing that since he's been singing. So, Matt Kosterman: yeah. Deborah Servetnick: You know, it really comes in and it really goes and we're bringing it in from another place, and it's up to us to translate that and, um, make meaning of that. Matt Kosterman: For sure. Did you have a, what was your, what was your, what was your upbringing? How were things at home? What, what led you to drop acid at 17? Deborah Servetnick: Well, I'll say this. Um, I, and I, this just was something I just learned about myself a couple years ago, but, um, I'm always learning about myself and, uh, it's always an opportunity to, to see what, what has always been my path or what is line deeper for the, for the next thing to, um, move into re-patterning. Deborah Servetnick: But the thing was, when I was a kid, my dad played a clarinet in the, in a community orchestra that was his hobby, and he had an amazing stereo and he would just sit for hours in the living room with, uh, in his chair with the stereo. And if I wanted to spend time with my dad, which I did want to, 'cause my dad was a cool guy, I would, um, sit there with him when he was listening to music and he would hand me the album cover and he'd say to me, you know. Deborah Servetnick: This is the piece and this is who's playing it. And, but then there's this other album where they play the same piece with a different orchestra, with different people interpreting it. And I realized that that set me up for the Grateful Dead, where, you know, we, we trade tapes for decades. We look at every show like it's the first time we ever heard it, because it is the first time we ever heard it that way. Deborah Servetnick: So I, I, I realized that it was my dad that got me into being a deadhead and, uh, you know, Matt Kosterman: but through what, through Benny Goodman? The, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Well, he loved Benny Goodman, but Matt Kosterman: Yeah. But I'm just saying like, 'cause he wasn't listening to the dead. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And, uh, he really loved music and everybody in my house played an instrument. Deborah Servetnick: I played piano, of course, at the time. I, I didn't know that my, I I, I'd been deaf in one ear since I was a little kid. And, uh, I didn't really figure that that was gonna kind of get in my way. I never expected it. Matt Kosterman: Mm. Deborah Servetnick: Um, and the good news, as I'm. Where I am in my life now is as, as many times as it's gotten in my way, it's probably served me a whole lot more to not have to hear things I don't want to hear. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, sure. Deborah Servetnick: On that side of me. And to be able to, you know, to be able to, like, what just happened to me this summer at Grateful Dead 60, I was with a bunch of friends who were using psychedelics and wanted to talk when the show was on, and I just made sure they were on my left side so I could hear the music and just, just nodded every couple of minutes like, oh yeah, I get that. Deborah Servetnick: You know, and it was Matt Kosterman: right, right. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. My, my, they're good. Yeah, they're all good. Matt Kosterman: So my grandfather used to, he needed hearing aids and he wouldn't, he didn't put 'em in and it was just 'cause he didn't wanna listen to my grandmother most of the time. Deborah Servetnick: It's a good out, and you know what I, here's another one. Deborah Servetnick: I've, I've always lived in homes with snores my whole life. My dad. My, my amazing beloved husband and, and you know, even my daughter, even my cat and my dog snorted. So for me, and I probably snore too, you know? Who knows? Who Matt Kosterman: knows? Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. You know, good ear down and I'm out, and you're Matt Kosterman: out. Deborah Servetnick: And I like it. The snoring makes me feel comfortable, actually. Deborah Servetnick: It feels, makes me feel safe and comfortable. So I've never objected. If anybody out there wants to come over, get in bed with me to snore and put me right into dream world, you're invited. Like, that's what I Matt Kosterman: want. Well, we should, we should mention that your husband has crossed over, so there Oh, yeah, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And my dog and my cat, Matt Kosterman: so Oh, everybody. Oh, Deborah Servetnick: yes. And so, and my dad of course, a long time ago, but Sure. Um, but yeah, but that's the snoring. I think it, I think it really kind of goes with the humming and, and you know, lots of people talk about this as they, as they age, right? You get, you have like this, you know, tinnitus or like this humming that's happening that you have no control over. Deborah Servetnick: But for me. I, I really feel like it's me tuning into the universe. I, I like it. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I enjoy it. Yeah. It changes for me. It, there's a little squeal sometimes and then there's a hum. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. My friend Laura, her, her guides say, why do you, you know, when I ask what's going on, they say, why do you think anything's wrong? Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So, so, right. So it was a good home life? No. No significant traumas or, Deborah Servetnick: no. Um, my parents were really strict. Okay. Which I, I've also just uncovered that one. In fact, just the other day, uh, doing my vision for 2026, that, um, I, you know, if you tell me no to something, if you tell me I can't do something, that for me says, oh, here comes a great dare and I'm doing it, so, and you're doing it. Deborah Servetnick: Um, which explains, you know, why I do what I do in my life. And, you know, with medicine, it's always been something I've done for many years. And, um, although, um. I'm legally trained in a number of things. Um, I have always operated in an underground world and it has never, uh, at all made me feel nervous or insecure. Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. Like, really not. Matt Kosterman: So what, what was the training then? Did you go conventional schooling, college, university, that route, or? Deborah Servetnick: Well, when I'm talking about, yeah, I did all that. I have a master's in education, but, um, even beyond that, when I, I did the maps training. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Deborah Servetnick: And I did that in 22 and I did that, uh, and I really loved it. Deborah Servetnick: I went to Naropa and I spent time at, uh, red Feather Lakes and um, and that was really great too. Our experiential was there. So all, all of, and then I went to Oregon 'cause I thought I might wanna do the Oregon training. Um, and I did all the prerequisites for all that didn't finish the Oregon training because, well, I'm not gonna say that that's not true. Deborah Servetnick: Finished the Oregon training. Didn't, didn't go further with the state certification because I have so many, um, so many things I would, I would like to see differently Yeah. In, in Oregon about the way practitioners can practice and the way the, um, the membership is that you have to pay the state and the way that, uh, practitioners are required to report each other. Matt Kosterman: Right. I, I think I learned that from you in our, in our call or I saw it online, that Yeah, you have to report somebody if you know that somebody's doing underground work. You're supposedly, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Matt Kosterman: You're supposed to report them to the Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And it's a dedicated underground practitioner. I'm talking for, you know, since really the AIDS days, since the eighties. Deborah Servetnick: Okay. And, and really morphing into working with, um, uh, ketamine, which I have been legally trained by Pratti as part of the. Um, maps training, but I would, Matt Kosterman: and I should, I should mention, sorry, just to cut you mention, for those who don't know, maps is the multidisciplinary applied psychedelic No. Tell me. Deborah Servetnick: Association for Psychedelic Studies. Matt Kosterman: Association for Psychedelic Studies. So it's Rick Dobbins group. They were behind the, yeah. And, Deborah Servetnick: and, you know, uh, and they had a, what everyone thought was just like the perfect trajectory to working with MDMA legally, and then, um, blindsided just a couple years ago when those FDA, Matt Kosterman: well, that whole, yeah. Matt Kosterman: I mean, we could go down that rabbit hole of not, not who was the symposia, right, was the Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: The foil, the fo the foe. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And I, and I've seen, I've seen symposia, uh, you know, rip out their claws to Rick. At, um, horizons conference. Yeah. Um, probably in 2018 or 2019. I forget when it was, but I watched them k kind of, you know, dig into him during a, a very, um, uh, a very neutral question and answer moment. Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. Um, on the stage. And they were, they were really hell bent on getting their point across at that time. Matt Kosterman: So that's, it's really interesting. And I don't, I don't know how many, there aren't a, a ton of listeners, uh, I think of the podcast that are super psychedelic informed. So this is like a little bit of inside baseball, um, in, in the psychedelic world. Matt Kosterman: But I've been a, for, you know, since I discovered psychedelics, I came to them late only about eight years ago in 2018. Um, I got all my drinking out of the way very early in life. I did that from about age 12 to age 31, and then that was enough of that. But, um. I, I used to be a proponent of legalization, and I've since moved to a, be a, be a proponent of complete decriminalization, get the government the fuck out of my business when it comes to these medicines. Deborah Servetnick: And I'm on, I'm on the decrim side myself. And it's really interesting because in Maryland here we have a task force that's looking at how to have, you know, safe use of psychedelics. And, um, in, in listening to someone who does really great work as part of a church with Ayahuasca, his viewpoint is it has to be legalized because otherwise he can't bring his, his substance in legally. Matt Kosterman: Oh, interesting. And Deborah Servetnick: getting confiscated. And that, uh, decriminalization doesn't work for him. I, I hadn't seen his side of it until then when he said that to me. And that was eyeopening. Matt Kosterman: But de and decriminalized be, but what if, if it weren't schedule one anymore, that wouldn't matter. Right. Deborah Servetnick: Uh, probably, but it's, the federal government is gonna hold it up in customs and, um, he just won't have, you know, he won't be able to get it. Deborah Servetnick: So his thing was, um, even for churches, it doesn't, it doesn't end that, you know, that bureaucracy. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I guess my bigger question would be, would, would decriminalization in the, in the short to medium term, lead to enough changes that then it would be descheduled, right? Deborah Servetnick: No, no. I, I'm a decrim person. I've been decrim with those decrim guys, you know, with Larry and, and the other guys for a long, for a long time. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And, uh, probably since 20 17, 20 18. And, um, um, I've watched, you know, Colorado Shift. I've watched what we thought was gonna be, you know. The rush to with Oregon, like to be the first to get this right. And you know, what happened was Oregon was the first to get it wrong. So, um, Matt Kosterman: and yeah. They've they've had some significant challenges with Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Out there with the, the, the legal framework for it. Deborah Servetnick: Well, you know, it's, it's, it's for all the people out there who always wanna be, to be ahead of their time, it's a, it's a good reminder that, um, when you're ahead of your time, you're really standing by yourself and you're creating it at, you know, you're building a plane as you're flying. Deborah Servetnick: Like you, you really are just doing it as you're, as you're doing it. And we're gonna make mistakes, but that's okay. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, somebody's gotta go first and, and yeah. And, and lead the way, but it, yeah. I was think another woman that I interviewed had also gone through the Oregon training and, um, was very surprised, uh, that most of the people going through the training had never ingested any psychedelic medicine, Deborah Servetnick: hasn't had something. Matt Kosterman: And it's just, that's like, Deborah Servetnick: I just, I discovered that in Naropa, I discovered that in my maps training, that I was one of six people that wasn't licensed. And I, I have a strong reputation for a number of years being in this work. And, um, I, I had to write an essay telling them why I belonged in this class without some kind of licensure, and they accepted me. Deborah Servetnick: But I wanna tell you what, what continually blew my mind through that training were all the physicians and social workers and psychologists that thought they wanted to do this work, but had never experienced it themselves. And, um, I can tell you, because I was a massage teacher for, for a long time, I, I taught for Empire Beauty School and I ran their, their, um, massage program for them in Philadelphia. Deborah Servetnick: And, uh. I can tell you all the people that were certified in massage and decided it wasn't for them and just didn't do it. And, and again, I was a teacher. All the people that became teachers. And then when it became time to do your student teaching, if the student teaching came at the end, they decided that that wasn't right for them. Deborah Servetnick: They, they didn't belong in the classroom. When the student teaching in different schools, it can come in a different place. So earlier is so much better because you get to be in a classroom and see if this is really for you. But we're putting all these people in, in control of psychedelics that haven't even tripped. Deborah Servetnick: Right. Matt Kosterman: I mean, it's a bit, I mean, the closest analogy I have is like somebody trying to teach you how to fly a plane who's never flown a plane, Deborah Servetnick: but yes. But you know, their comeback is you don't have to have cancer to be an oncologist. Matt Kosterman: Bullshit. I mean, it's bullshit. Comeback. Deborah Servetnick: Well, but, but here's my, here's my part B. Deborah Servetnick: Come like, I like your part A, here's my part B. Yeah. But when Roland Griffith got a cancer diagnosis, suddenly. Listening to him became so different because I listened to him when I was in the study and he didn't sound like that. Matt Kosterman: Ah. It changed Deborah Servetnick: when, when I had cancer and I was on this side of the table and he didn't have cancer and he was on that side of the table. Deborah Servetnick: He said different things. Matt Kosterman: Ah, Matt Kosterman: but so the answer is not to have everybody get cancer though. Deborah Servetnick: No. The answer The answer, yeah. The answer is I think, um, Matt Kosterman: Tim Lee's message. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. The answer is I think just to stop thinking we can control something that's got a spiritual, you know, it's so important spiritually and experientially and, and every time we try to medicalize it, we're just arguing for our limitations. Deborah Servetnick: And that has never helped anyone. And it will never help anyone. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, arguing for your limitations and giving your power away to somebody else. 'cause ultimately you're doing the healing on yourself. Um, so tell us, talk about the, the medicines themselves. What do you, what, what, what do you, do you work with multiple different ones? Matt Kosterman: What's your do have a go-to or it depends. Deborah Servetnick: Well, you know, with, with serve medicine, legally I provide ketamine. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Apart from that, I work with, um, mostly psilocybin and, uh, then I'd say MDMA and then, um, DMT and, and, you know, amphetamine Five, Matt Kosterman: five, MEO, Deborah Servetnick: um, or Nnn. Yeah. I just, I don't do much of that. I just, um, I, I prefer to really work with psilocybin. Deborah Servetnick: I think. And, and here's where I'm coming from with psilocybin. Psilocybin heals here, heals every cell of our body. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And for me, um, you might have a great result with something else, um, and you will, but, uh, psilocybin. It, and maybe it's just me, how I can feel it working through my body. And I, I was the same way when I was receiving chemo. Deborah Servetnick: I could feel it moving through my body. And you know, when you asked me how I got started in this, that was always how I've been. I've always talked to spirits, I've always had downloads from spirits. I've always, I've, I've, my cells are always talking to me and it, and I wish I had known earlier that I was always talking to my cells. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: I, I might have not had cancer. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and, and so for somebody who, who's a typical, uh, client who would come to you, what, what, what's the profile and are you, are you having to talk them in? Are you having to talk them into medicine or they're ready? Deborah Servetnick: I, I'll tell you who my client really has become. Deborah Servetnick: Um, which I'm loving and I'm, uh, and I'm expanding and actually into this place right now. I'm creating two new coaching programs. But, um, that's because what I'm seeing, and, and so my client, lemme start earlier by saying, my clients have always been people that have been really successful and never tripped. Deborah Servetnick: They had a job that was either too demanding or they, you know, they didn't grow up during the drug years, or Matt Kosterman: No, they Deborah Servetnick: did grow up during the drug years, but they had a lot of messaging that it was a bad thing to do. So Matt Kosterman: that was Deborah Servetnick: me. Um, they just, yeah. So, so psychedelics weren't a part of their experience and they wanted somebody to guide them. Deborah Servetnick: And I've always come to this knowing that, you know, you didn't come for just a great six hours. You, you can have a great six hours, but that's not what you're here for. So if you're not living a life of joyful generosity mm-hmm. And, you know, gratitude and appreciation and, and, and, and just not being afraid to fail, which. Deborah Servetnick: In my own experience, it took me a while to feel that comfortable with failing. And there I was a teacher judging people and failing. I mean, that, that, that for me was, um, you know, one way to work through it. Thank goodness I got that way to work through it. I know, I know. A lot of people are just huge perfectionists. Deborah Servetnick: I see that in, I see that in, I'm a PQ coach. I see that in the PQ stuff. I work Matt Kosterman: What is pq? Deborah Servetnick: Positive Intelligence. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Deborah Servetnick: And, you know, Zad Shain came up with, um, the judge and, and, uh, saboteurs nine saboteurs that run your show. You know, you're either controlling it or you're a high achiever or you know, all these things that point to the way you've made sense out of navigating. Deborah Servetnick: The difficulties that pop up in your life and, you know, so Matt Kosterman: sort of IIFS adjacent almost sounds Internal family systems by a different name. Yes, Deborah Servetnick: it's similar in, in a lot of ways. Um, and, uh, I know that, you know, for me, when I started doing this work, um, I really wanted to help people and I knew it was through body work. Deborah Servetnick: That was before I knew, you know, any of this stuff. But I knew when I experienced body work, it was, it was a huge transformation for me. And, um, breath work was a, was an even bigger transformation for me. And then I knew that I didn't even have to touch your body for me to get a certain response. So I studied reiki and Chinese medicine and all kinds of good stuff like that. Deborah Servetnick: I went to acupuncture school, just did a number of things to just keep expanding. But what I really love is. Is communicating this idea to people that if you are, you know, we talk about the integration is really important, but if you're not into the preparation, you're not looking at how you look at everything. Deborah Servetnick: You know, this six hours is just gonna be like a little window. But what you really want is, you know, you really wanna be, Matt Kosterman: you wanna open the Deborah Servetnick: garage door driving. Yeah. You wanna be in that Ferrari going down the road, looking at that dashboard, and you see everything ahead of you. Matt Kosterman: So what does that, what does that look like? Matt Kosterman: What are your, what does a, a typical engagement look like? When someone, well, Deborah Servetnick: I work with people for a minimum three months. Most of the people I work with are a year. Okay. And six months. And where I'm going now, so, so this is where I was starting. My clients were usually people that were very successful and wanted to trip. Deborah Servetnick: They had never done it. They wanted to be safe. They would call me up and I would say, okay, I'd love that idea, but, but I wanna work with you for three months before we do anything. Yeah. And, and what would happen would be at the end of three months, they'd say, my life has really changed. Um, what else can I do? Deborah Servetnick: And I'd say, well, we can work for another three months. And then we started do, I started just opening with six months, and I started opening with a year with a different kind of client. With a client that had, um, a big dream and, you know, wanted Matt Kosterman: And before doing any, before doing any medicine. Yeah. Six months, a year. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because you, because you're activating, you're creating with every thought. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: And for people that don't know that, you know, and for people that, um, think they're really good observers. But they don't apply any awareness to what they're observing. They don't apply. They don't really understand the meaning they're applying to what they're observing. Deborah Servetnick: It can be a dead end. It can be a trip down the rabbit hole. It can be not very enjoyable. It can be a lot of self-criticism. It can be, um, a lot of people pleasing, just shows up in all those ways. So, so what I'm doing now is I'm working with people who have tripped. They've been to, you know, they've been to Peru. Deborah Servetnick: They've, they've been through Matt Kosterman: beyond. They've been, they've been to the beyond. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And nothing's changed. And they have a real good six months maybe, and then they're like back where they are because you know what? Their spouse is still the same. Their job is still the same. Their, their house is still the same. Deborah Servetnick: Their, you know, who's in charge and the government is still the same and, and they can't turn away from that stuff. They don't know how to turn away from that stuff. Matt Kosterman: That's like the, you know, wherever you go, there you are. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. I love that one. Got that right. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Um. Deborah Servetnick: So that's my, that's really where I'm working now is, is a combination of positive intelligence working with your saboteurs to work with just the universal laws, to come up with a way to, to navigate, um, how you've been looking at it. Deborah Servetnick: Not not going down the rabbit hole, not why you've been looking at it like that, but just as these things pop up, you're not just playing whack-a-mole, like when they pop up, you, you really have, you, you really have a, a recognition of, oh, there it is again. Thank you for showing up again, because you're reminding me that until I find a way to look at this in a different way, it's just gonna, just gonna hold this frequency and I can't go beyond this. Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. And if I wanna go beyond this and create other things in my life, I have to go beyond the frequency. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm experiencing a bit of that right now around food, around sugar. It's been a, a, a bugaboo for years and it's interesting to watch the cycles. In thinking that I've got it, quote unquote beat, which isn't, which is not the right attitude. Matt Kosterman: Right. It's not the right approach. Deborah Servetnick: Well, if I may help you with Matt Kosterman: this Yeah. Tell me right here. Okay. Deborah Servetnick: Because, because, you know, you could, I see it all the time with people that, that have cancer. You know, like cancer's asked, beat, beat cancer. Right. And what I came out of cancer with was, you gotta love cancer. Deborah Servetnick: You, you can't beat it. You, you gotta love it. And it's the same thing with the sugar, you know? Mm-hmm. You gotta move into the love of how happy it's made you, whether it's the cookies, whether it's the holidays, whether it's peanut m and cotton candy. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, and then you, and then you're moving into, you know, but that's not who you are now. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, ba are you familiar with Bahar? Do you know the, the, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Bahar talks about the, the version of yourself already exists. That's not a, that doesn't have the addiction. Deborah Servetnick: And you're gonna be that per, what would that person do right now? Right when he walks by that bakery case? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: That looks so good. What would you So good. That person who knows how to navigate his life, who knows what feels good for him, who knows what doesn't feel good for me, who, who is in his highest self about, you know, what would serve me right now where I am? Matt Kosterman: Well the trouble is, it feels so good, right? Matt Kosterman: In the now. I mean, that's the whole, that's the hook, right? Is it? Deborah Servetnick: Well, it's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's, um, you know what, it's, it's so good because, you know, that's, and I like to say this one too, you know, when that shows up, you gotta paint it red, Matt Kosterman: you Deborah Servetnick: know, Matt Kosterman: elaborate Deborah Servetnick: and What's that? Matt Kosterman: Elaborate on that. Say more. Deborah Servetnick: Okay. Well, well, something I learned from my teacher, you know, Mary Marcy, when I, and when I think about paint it red, what I've interpreted that to be, 'cause what, what's really served me, 'cause I'm like a really real visual person is, um. You know, you're driving down the highway, you're on a country road, you see something red, you see another one a little further up something. Deborah Servetnick: It's a big structure, it's red. You see another one, it's red. What is it? Every single time it's the same thing every single time. Right? It's a barn every single time. Like I was gonna say, are you Matt Kosterman: in Sweden at this point? Deborah Servetnick: I just think to myself, I think to myself, it's the same thing every single time. So you paint it red, it's like, okay, this time I'm gonna, I'm gonna really notice this because it keeps showing up for me. Deborah Servetnick: It, it's asking me to re-pattern this. It's, it's, every time it comes up, it's letting me know that it's not taking me where I wanna go. It keeps bringing me back to this really stuck place where, you know, either I'm the victim or you're the victim, or you know, I did something wrong. You did. So I'm the judge. Deborah Servetnick: You're the judge. We, you know, this isn't working. And, and I have to get into a place that says, if I can have what I want, what does that look like right now? What would feel good and what if it were easy? Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. What if it were easy? Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. What if it were easy? You know? And that's the one people always tell me that, that that's the one that they've learned from me, that served them the best. Deborah Servetnick: What would you love and what if it were easy? Mm-hmm. And, and you know, in my own experience, that's the one that served me too. That was the one that said, you mean, it's really that simple? Mm-hmm. I don't have to struggle and I don't have to blame myself and I don't have to be regretful and, you know, and Yeah, you don't, Matt Kosterman: you don't. Matt Kosterman: Right. For sure. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Um, Deborah Servetnick: everything is, everything has had value. Everything has taken you where you are, you know, Matt Kosterman: and especially, I mean, I, and I, you know, working with Athia who I had interviewed a couple months ago, um, we did a, we did a deep dive last year and her encouragement was, you know, don't, don't resist it. Matt Kosterman: Just look at it. It's, you're, you're learning something from it. It's coming up. 'cause the what you resist persists. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: And so I'm, at this point, I'm trusting that I'm learning something at a, at a higher level. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. What, what if you could learn through joy instead of struggle? Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: Like, I mean, you can, Matt Kosterman: you can. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And I have, and I have done and do, do. It's the, you know, but, but it's, it's a spiral. You know? There's the spiral. It's, and it was Deborah Servetnick: a revelation, Matt Kosterman: like Deborah Servetnick: when, when you suddenly you accepted that and you were like, I've heard this before, but I just, I don't know why I didn't believe it. Like, didn't seem, it just seemed too easy. Matt Kosterman: Too easy. Right. We gotta do it the hard way. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's gotta be, like, my worthiness has gotta come from how difficult this has been. Matt Kosterman: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause you gotta, yeah. Nose to the grindstone, pull up, up by the bootstraps. All of the, all of the old sayings, right. The old, Deborah Servetnick: so I'm gonna tell you something that, that I, I remembered and I remember from time to time when I was in my twenties, I remember, uh, uh, someone who I was in, in a relationship said, said to me. Deborah Servetnick: Um, uh, just like this with the most horrible contempt I've ever heard. You always get what you want. And I remember thinking, yeah, don't you, doesn't everyone, Matt Kosterman: well, we all do, right? Deborah Servetnick: But, but, but you know, I kind of took that and toned it down. This was in my twenties. I took it and toned it down. I don't wanna be too big. Deborah Servetnick: I don't want people to think I have it so easy. I don't want it to look like, you know, I, I, you know, it wasn't, I didn't work hard enough to get this, and, you know, hell if that didn't gimme cancer 20 years later after that. But it did. You know what can I tell you? Matt Kosterman: What's your, do you know your human design type? Deborah Servetnick: Uh, I forget. Matt Kosterman: Are you a manifester? Deborah Servetnick: I forget. I forget. Matt Kosterman: You forget? Okay. Deborah Servetnick: I think I forget. Matt Kosterman: I just wonder because you're, I'm gonna Deborah Servetnick: say yeah. Matt Kosterman: It, it sounds like, it sounds like at least a manifesting generator, 'cause you're very able to bring things into the 3D very quickly. Yeah, yeah, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Matt Kosterman: Us us projectors struggle a little bit to connect with the energy and to Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: To, to figure. I'm still figuring out what all the knobs and dials do. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. I'm in that, I'm in that Oprah phase where now that I have all the stuff, like, it's time to like unload it all uhhuh. Like, I'm, I'm really in that, you know, I mean, and a lot of it comes through even, you know, being in this house. I moved to Baltimore for my husband and, uh, I have a, I have great friends here now. Deborah Servetnick: I have, there's such great music here in Baltimore, especially if you're a deadhead. Lots and lots of great music. Oh, Matt Kosterman: interesting. Okay. Deborah Servetnick: And, um, so, so that part has felt really good to me. But yeah, I could go anywhere. Where do I wanna go? So for me, after I took a look at. My husband's desk and said, you know, it's looked like this for three and a half years since he died. Deborah Servetnick: Like, how have I not done anything with this? Well, it might be time now. And I thought to myself, um, I really, I really know. I can't activate the next phase until I take care of the, of the releasing phase. I can't. Yeah. So it's time to release and, and move into something now, Matt Kosterman: which is, which is true for so many. Matt Kosterman: I mean, that was, that was my, I mean, I had to release a lot and I'm always releasing. I mean, we're, we're, we're taking in and we're, we're releasing. Right. But we, there's, in my own experience, the releasing tends to be more difficult, the letting go of the old, old ways of being, old ways of doing Deborah Servetnick: what, what's, what's, uh, one of the most recent challenges for you? Matt Kosterman: Um, again, I mean, it's letting go of sugar. It was really the big one, I would say. Deborah Servetnick: What is it that you, that you don't want from sugar? Matt Kosterman: Uh, what do I don't want for sugar? I mean, it's, uh, and I've gone, I mean, I've gone round and round and round with it. Um, and it's the, um, what do I don't, I mean, I don't want the calories, the, the, I don't want there, there's not, I don't eat good sugar. Matt Kosterman: I don't eat good, you know, I, I start with the dark chocolate and say, oh, I'll go with dark. And then in a couple of weeks, it's the bags of peanut m and ms. Um, so I, I know it's not good for me, like for the body. It's not, it's not deli, it's not nutritious. It's very delicious. Um, it's, um, it's, um, you know, I, I've kind of described this before, I think on the show. Matt Kosterman: It's a, it's like a hug. It's like a very subtle hug. It, it was, it, it was, uh, have you Deborah Servetnick: noticed what you're thinking of? What's just happened before you reach for the sugar? Matt Kosterman: I'm sorry. Do I, do I notice the thought? Deborah Servetnick: Yeah, the thought that Matt Kosterman: it's Deborah Servetnick: what precedes the reaching for the sugar, Matt Kosterman: uh, a voice saying, don't, Deborah Servetnick: what's the thought that moves you toward the sugar? Matt Kosterman: What is the thought that moves me toward the sugar? It's mostly a distraction. Deborah Servetnick: Okay. And is there a particular time of day? Matt Kosterman: No, it doesn't matter. Deborah Servetnick: Is there, is there a particular, is, is there a certain kind of interaction that takes place? Is there a particular people involved? Is there Matt Kosterman: No, that's it. No, it's just sort of all, I mean, I could, I can eat it all the time. Matt Kosterman: I could eat, I, there's like no bottom and there's no time of day. It could be first thing in the morning. It could be right before I go to bed. It could be in the middle of the day. Yeah. I mean it's, yeah. I, I need to slow it down for sure. This would Deborah Servetnick: be the place to notice Yeah, your, your thought and, and for, at least for the beginning of this, write it down so you, you can look at it and notice what you're noticing about this. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: Like, there's something that, that feels like, um, and the distraction is really interesting. Um, because I, I've been looking at the way I've gotten distracted too. 'cause I, I've allowed myself to get very distracted since my husband died. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: It was, it was very healing in a lot of ways. So, um, from the grief, it was a big distraction from the grief. Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. Which, um, still kind of interesting because, um, fortunately for me, I, I hear him so I don't feel like he's missing. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: But there is, there is this part where, um. I still wonder, like, you know, like what it, like, you know, did it ever even really happen? Did I imagine the whole thing? It was like, you know, like, you know what I mean? Deborah Servetnick: Like, it was so, it was my whole life. Like how did it just disappear? Like Oh, Matt Kosterman: interest. Yeah. Ephemeral. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And it's, and and, you know, does anybody else have to witness this to make this true? Like, no. Like, it, it really did happen for me like that. So I, I think the sugar piece is something for you. You have this go-to, it looks like sugar, you know, how does that keep you from what else you really want? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: How, how does it come in when that thought says, ah, let's take a walk into the kitchen. Or like, but if you just, you don't even have to, you know, put it in the drawer, your desk drawer. That's what I do sometimes. Put it in the desk drawer and uh, you know, so you don't have to walk into the kitchen. But there, but there's a thing that says if I, you know, if I could. Deborah Servetnick: Tell myself a story about what I'm doing here. What's the story I'm telling myself? Uhhuh? Matt Kosterman: Yeah. What is the story? That's good. Deborah Servetnick: We're gonna have a hotline. We have like a red phone here. And you, you're gonna have, when you feel like that sugar thing, you have to, Matt Kosterman: I have to call Deb. Deborah Servetnick: I'll be on the other end. Deborah Servetnick: You'll call up Deb. I'm going for the sugar. And I'll be like, what's going on in your thinking? Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And I mean, no, that's good. I mean, I haven't, I've done that in other areas. Probably haven't, haven't done that, uh, in this area. Um, Deborah Servetnick: and, and you know, the, the thing about it is, um, there's a lot of messages that, that we get that are telling us that this will make us feel better in the moment. Deborah Servetnick: Whatever it is that we're choosing that, that we know after a while is really like, it's time to put that one away. Like, it's, you served me. Thanks. We're done. Matt Kosterman: Right. It's interesting, like with, with cannabis, with weed. 'cause I'll, again, I didn't, I didn't use any substances from, I mean, I smoked weed in 1995 before I got into the physical pain. Matt Kosterman: And we brought it in medically in maybe 2017. My, my physician suggested it was legal here. Um, and so I used it for that and, and, and, but, and there's a hook in there for me. I mean, I like drinking. Giving up booze wasn't a problem. But what's interesting with the weed is it comes and goes and, and it will, I don't know if other people experience this, but I'll, if I'm doing it too much, you know, more than say once a week, um, I'll, I'll be, I'll get, I'll get high and it comes on and, and the, the voice in the head's like, what are you doing? Matt Kosterman: Why are you doing this? It's interesting 'cause it, you know, it's one of those things that you would think would come on when you were sober, but instead it comes on when I'm high and it's like, you don't need this. What the, what the fuck? Stop. Just stop. You know? So here I am trying to enjoy myself, you know, and it's not like a lot, I'll take a 10 milligram, I'll have a, you know, a few hits of, um, so it's not like I'm getting like super stoned outta my mind, you know, the first time I do it, uh, after maybe a week or two weeks of not having any music sounds really good, right? Matt Kosterman: We all know how it's like, it's really expand. I shouldn't say we all, but if you've gotten high before, for me the music sounds beautiful, but then the second or third night of that's not so interesting anymore. 'cause the brain gets familiar. So I, I find it interesting in there that I can, I, I, I, that that voice is there going like, why are you doing this? Deborah Servetnick: I love psychedelics and cannabis, because for me, it helps me plug in. And I think for a lot of people it does that too. And if you find that it's not working like that for you, um, it, to me it sounds kind of like, um, you know, uh, going to a porn site when you partner's sitting in front of you, it it, you know what I mean? Deborah Servetnick: Like, like, okay. And I'm not judging porn here at this. Matt Kosterman: I understand. Yeah, yeah. The Deborah Servetnick: metaphor, right? Yeah. It's just sort of like, okay, so you have this thing that works for you sometimes that you like, and now you actually have this other thing that you say is like, you know, wow. It's like my heart centered connection. Deborah Servetnick: So if you have this heart-centered connection to something, you know, what would that look like if you, if you're not getting it through cannabis, what does that look like? Matt Kosterman: I mean, ultimately it's the heart center. It's the, it's the connection to oneself is what it's, it's what we're all, you know, out here looking for. Deborah Servetnick: And not just the connection, but the self-love. Like, it's not just like, okay, here I am. It's the Here I am. And aren't I fabulous? Because, because I, I was created by source. Like I was created just by the same thing that made the mountains and the trees and the ocean. And, and I came here to expand the universe. Deborah Servetnick: The universe is expanding through me, Matt Kosterman: through me, right. Through my presence. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: So I think keeping that in mind is just such a, um, it, it really takes the focus off of the substance. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: Into, into, you know, my experience being, me being resourced anyhow, just because I can't even make myself breathe. Deborah Servetnick: The, the universe is making me breathe. Like, I can't even, I can't make myself do that. Matt Kosterman: Right. Deborah Servetnick: The universe is doing it for me. The universe is doing all of this. Matt Kosterman: The heart's be the heart's beating. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. With, with my involvement. I get to say what I love. 'cause the universe is gonna give it to me because this is an attraction based universe that is moving through vibration. Matt Kosterman: Right. Deborah Servetnick: And if, if your vibration is here and what you want is here, well then, you know, here's your journey. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Raise the vibration. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And so lemme start going into the vibrational thing. How, what, what's your experience in working with folks with the medicines and how would you describe it vibrationally? Deborah Servetnick: Um, first of all, you know, you're in an altered state and it's important to remember that it's temporary. And for some people it can, it can, you know, the scary part that I think most people experience and, and I've seen it with my clients, is I had a client that. Said to me over and over again, am I dead? Deborah Servetnick: Am I dead? Did I die? Am I dead? Mm-hmm. And, and I think that, yeah, the old, the old party, you did die. Like if you, if you can let it, if you can give it permission, if you can't, but you have to replace it with, and that's the thing about breaking any kind of habit. You have to replace it with a different habit or it's not gonna change. Deborah Servetnick: So, ' Matt Kosterman: cause there's a va, there's a vacuum there. Deborah Servetnick: Y yeah. So you have to replace it. So for example, if I were going to quit eating sugar, what would I do instead? I would, uh, I might do like 10 setups every single time. I don't know if I liked setups, I, that'd be something I like and didn't feel punished with. Deborah Servetnick: Right. Or I might take a walk, I might take the dog for a walk, Uhhuh, I might put the radio on and dance. I, you know, put, put like serious song, whatever you listen to Spotify and just dance and, you know, that's what I would do for, you know, put on a song that I love. Same thing with, um. With a journey when you're getting to that place that you're going into unchartered territory, you ha you had to get there through the substance. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ' Deborah Servetnick: cause you couldn't get there by yourself because Matt Kosterman: the ego wouldn't allow it. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And all your shoulds and, you know, all my, you know, all my, all my, my judges are really active. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So what do injunction and what do you, what, what's your advice to people going? 'cause I get this a lot. I mean, I've, I've, I've sat guided, whatever you wanna call it, with about two dozen different sessions, mostly with MDMA, a little bit of psilocybin, um, for folks. Matt Kosterman: And, um, the, uh, you know, I get from a lot of people, you know, I'm scared to do it. I'm scared to, I'm scared to, I'm scared to lose control. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Which I think is, is having gone round the bend and lost complete control, it's, it's funny that you realize you're not actually in control anyway. Yeah. But what's your, what do you, what do, do you get? Matt Kosterman: What are your common, like objections? Or, or, Deborah Servetnick: well, this, this control thing is really good because, because it's sort of, I, I just came off spending some time with someone who, it feels very triggered by the news. Matt Kosterman: Hmm. Deborah Servetnick: And they watch it. And, and you know, I, I mean, my thing is like, you know, what's the, what's the point about getting, um, triggered by something you can't control, Matt Kosterman: right? Deborah Servetnick: Like, if you can't control this outside thing, then it would be a whole lot better to practice a different response. And if that comes a siren, I'm Matt Kosterman: speaking, I'm not controlling anything. Deborah Servetnick: And if, and, uh, if you can, you know, if something in that is like you, you really want to ask for what you want and what you deserve. Deborah Servetnick: And that's. The universe is listening all the time. So you just keep asking for what it is you want and what it is you deserve. Now here's another one. I have people that like to say to me, um, well, I have that, you know, I, I only ask for what I need. And I'm like, oh. So you think needing something is better than wanting something? Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. That's the first place most people will kind of go, wah, wah wa, you know that. And that's the place. So a so, a journey if you haven't prepared and looked at your understanding of what? Of like your thermostat, where you keep your thermostat, or how much you can have. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: How much it's safe to ask for how much, you know, you just, you know, you deserve like, all, all of those things. Deborah Servetnick: Then, um, and you haven't asked the universe for help knowing that the universe is like, ready to give it to you, whatever it is you want. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: You gotta know what you want. Matt Kosterman: Well, I mean, I think one of the, one of my own personal experience, one of the beautiful things about the medicine is a lot of times in my case, um, I was not trained as many people are to ask for what you want. Matt Kosterman: In fact, I was trained the opposite, Deborah Servetnick: of course. Matt Kosterman: Right. And then the nerve, but the, it's, it's at a nervous system level. And, and, and the, the medicines have helped me to shift that and to move into more abundance. Um, but it's not, it, it hasn't been through thinking about it as much, you know, like there's, it's, it's sort of a, it's, it's like a, you know, it's like the, the nervous system has to get there and then the brain has to get there and the, Deborah Servetnick: you're onto something here. Deborah Servetnick: You're right. Yeah. It's about the feeling. Matt Kosterman: Right, Deborah Servetnick: because, because it's the feeling then the thinking. Matt Kosterman: You can't, you can't think your way out of it. Deborah Servetnick: Well, well, you wanna feel the joy no matter what it is. You wanna feel good now. You don't wanna wait for something to happen, for you to feel better. You wanna know, you know, it, it could be, you know, it could be not so good out there. Deborah Servetnick: Like, there is stuff that is happening that isn't, for none of us, looks very good. Matt Kosterman: Right. Deborah Servetnick: But you know, that, that understanding about what you can have in your relationship to the universe that's eternal. Like, you know, um, and you get to ask, you know, I, I, I, I think about this all the time. There's, there's a thousand different people, a thousand different ways. Deborah Servetnick: You get to decide. Matt Kosterman: You get to choose. Yeah. I mean, it, I think it's a, it's a corollary to, one of my favorite, you know, quotes from Gandhi is be the change you wanna see in the world. Yeah. Turn off the goddamn tv, you know, you know. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: You can't change that stuff. Not direct, not through watching tv. Deborah Servetnick: Right. Deborah Servetnick: And this is, I, I think we are, I think, you know, from, from what I've heard, 'cause I, I listened to Pam Gregory, I really like her and astrologer Pam Gregory. And I'm, I'm not a big astrology person per se. 'cause, um, not 'cause I don't believe in it or just because I don't know the time I was born. I, I tried to find that out and I could never find her for some reason. Deborah Servetnick: Oh, Matt Kosterman: interesting. Deborah Servetnick: But I mean, I wrote to my state, did all this stuff, and it just, I kind of moved on from that. So I, but I love to hear other people talk about what's coming, um, because I love to dream up what's coming in my own life. I love to think of what I want all the time. So one of the things I've heard her say in my own feeling is things are moving so quickly. Deborah Servetnick: That's the good news. Mm-hmm. Um, that, you know, we are really at a tipping point. It, we have gotten there through the collective thinking. This has never been a them, they're doing this. And, and, and, and it's always been a, we are doing this. And until, you know, until we start thinking about this differently, we have this amazing opportunity of social media, yet we tune into all the, you know, support groups, all the complaining, all the, you know what's wrong, all the politics, and instead of. Deborah Servetnick: Really knowing that, you know, um, I, I know how it is for me 'cause I'm a deadhead makes it so easy. I have friends everywhere. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm, I'm going out to California and I'm visiting people I go to music with and isn't it amazing that they live in the most beautiful places ever? Yes, it is. For me it's just feels incredible and right. Deborah Servetnick: And, um, I, I know that I, you know, I really love seeing them and, um, this is my natural way of being. So I know that I, I'm that kind of person that always sees the seed of good. That's just where I am. Um, it got a lot more difficult when I had cancer. I really had to get, so I felt so terrible. My, the chemo had really affected me. Deborah Servetnick: Um, I had lots of surgery, uh, thank God I had an amazing family. My daughter and my husband were great, and that was really helpful. But yeah, the stuff that I didn't like was still the same. I was still teaching at a, you know, and having to conform to these ideas that I didn't agree with in, in the classroom and things like that. Deborah Servetnick: And, and I really, you know, in noticing how I felt about that stuff, it took me a longer time to get better. At one point I felt so bad I would've been happier dying. But the thing is, I feel the difference so much. I feel so much gratitude in being alive. My life has expanded so much even since my husband died in the last six months. Deborah Servetnick: My life has been so incredibly amazing and because. 'cause I would've kept asking him to do the hard stuff. You saw it this morning when I was, I couldn't get on here on the computer in a, in like a, in like my own like, um, you know, um, resource, technical way. I just never bothered to do it. My husband did it for me, Uhhuh. Deborah Servetnick: So this is a place I can grow. I know that it's, I just learned a bunch of stuff from you this morning. I al I always feel like this has taken me the next place and the next place and the next place. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And I feel like that's all any of us wanna do in a journey. We, we wanna get to the next place, but first you gotta love the place you're in. Deborah Servetnick: That's so important. You know, you, you, you can run, but you can't hide. You know, I, I'm like one of the probably last people in the world that just started loving Stranger things. That's like my, yeah. My new show I'm in. Like, I just finishing the first season, which should tell you a lot about, you know, where I'm at there. Deborah Servetnick: So, yeah. I, that's right. I never Matt Kosterman: watched, I never watched Game of Thrones, so, you know. Oh, Deborah Servetnick: I, I never finished that one, but yeah. Okay. But, but I love Stranger Things and the thing is, it's not a hard, that was, I heard it was a hard thing. First of all, I love Winona Ry. How did I not know? She's in this like, it's 10 years now and I didn't know that. Deborah Servetnick: Mm-hmm. But, which, you know, tells you I've been busy doing a lot of other things and, and, um. And, and it's not a horror show. It's a supernatural show. And for me, when she hung up all those lights mm-hmm. And she's hearing her son speak through the lights, I was like, yeah. Right. Of course. Matt Kosterman: Of Deborah Servetnick: course. It's, yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Because that's how I do it with so many things. And that's how we all do it. But you gotta tune in or you know, hear it. And a journey will take you out of your nice little box and move you into a place you can hear it, but not if you're still going like this. I'm too scared. I have to put down something I'm so familiar with. Deborah Servetnick: It's too hard to put it down. I'd rather just keep dragging it along. Mm-hmm. Just drag it along and that's what happens. ' Matt Kosterman: cause it's familiar. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah, it's familiar. There you go. Matt Kosterman: It's 'cause it's familiar. Deborah Servetnick: Familiar. 'cause I know, 'cause because I know when I passed the, the, the, um, when I know when I passed the McDonald's, I went too far on that street. Deborah Servetnick: I know I have to turn before the McDonald's and then I. Every time I go past it, I go, I'm like, oh, I missed her street. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: But I gotta do it that way. Every single time. Matt Kosterman: Every single time. So when, when, so you've worked with, so somebody comes in, you work with 'em for three, six months, a year before you do the medicine. Matt Kosterman: Do you, is it, uh, how do you, how do you guys decide what medicine you're gonna work with? Do you, do you have sort of an on, do you on-ramp with ketamine? Do you on ramp with, Deborah Servetnick: uh, we can do a number of medicines. We don't, al we do more than one in a year for sure. Okay. We do more than one. And, um, um, usually it's two or three. Deborah Servetnick: And I always like to have a mushroom journey in there. I always like to have a ketamine journey in there. Matt Kosterman: Mm-hmm. Deborah Servetnick: And I always like to have an MDMA journey. Matt Kosterman: Okay. Deborah Servetnick: Which they're all, you know, it's like, um, they're all good. Yeah. They all have great benefits. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. But, so no, no particular protocol for starting with X, Y, or Z, just sort of what, what Deborah Servetnick: No, Matt Kosterman: depending on what you're working with. I, Deborah Servetnick: I, I really like, um, mushrooms, I think because, uh, you know, mushrooms, you can't overdose. You're, they're really safe. They're, um, Matt Kosterman: non-addictive. Deborah Servetnick: They're, yeah. Although it's a long, it's a longer trip than a ketamine journey. Deborah Servetnick: I mean, the thing about ketamine is it's just a few hours, Matt Kosterman: right? Deborah Servetnick: Uh, and MDMA can be long and mushrooms can be long too. Well, LSD can be very long. So, um, but I have clients that came to me for, um, headaches and things like that. And, and we use LSD and Matt Kosterman: Okay. Deborah Servetnick: Um, I like that. I like microdosing. LSD, I like microdosing, um, mushrooms. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And Deborah Servetnick: I love ayahuasca. I don't, I'm not a practitioner, not an ayahuasca. Ayahuasca Matt Kosterman: good on data. No. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, that's, that for me, that's deep. Is. Yeah. It needs to be provided by someone who's done lots of experiential work. And, um, I, the first time I used Ayahuasca, I was 30 years old. Oh yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And it was in New Jersey, and which Matt Kosterman: the garden state Deborah Servetnick: prove. Yeah. You don't have to go to, you don't have to go to South America to get the job done. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. No, no. I've done it here in Chicago. Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. And, and, and, and I, when I used to, I didn't even know, I, I wasn't even sure what it was. And when I went for my interview to get in the study at Hopkins when I had cancer, um, they asked me about my psychedelics and I didn't wanna appear drug seeking. Deborah Servetnick: And I, and I had to tell 'em I used ayahuasca and I wasn't even, I had to write it down. I wasn't even sure how to spell it. And this was like 2011. I didn't know anyone else that, that had used Ayahuasca at that point. Sure. And I, and I remember sitting in the room with, uh, Mary Castano and Roland, and both of them real straight faced. Deborah Servetnick: I, and I went, is it Ayahuasca? And they looked at me, went maybe like, Matt Kosterman: we don't know. Deborah Servetnick: I don't know. And, and, uh, I remember just thinking like, oh, okay. I think it is. And, um, but Ayahuasca, every time I use it, it's been a really deep, deep journey. Um, and I don't have to use it for a pretty long time. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Long interval. Deborah Servetnick: Oh yeah. But I'm, I'm probably about ready. Matt Kosterman: You're about to. Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. I'm probably about ready, but I did, I did a couple real, really important mushroom journeys, especially after my husband died, especially when I was doing my experiential in Oregon. Um, that was an amazing journey with mushrooms, and I felt him absolutely. Deborah Servetnick: In the room and uhhuh, Deborah Servetnick: and I felt him in my body. And I, and I, you know, and I, uh, I heard him tell me he'd already, he'd already come back, you know, he's already in a baby, like, oh, always Matt Kosterman: back. Okay. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Part of him. Yeah. And that's the thing, that's the thing about this, um, about this more than one dimensional existence. Deborah Servetnick: We're not just one person that gets reincarnated as this one thing, Matt Kosterman: right. Deborah Servetnick: It's like there's multiple, which is I think also why we're attracted to people that we're attracted to. There's pieces of them that are in us. There's pieces of them that are in people we've loved. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's far, it's far more complex than our, our little brains can even wrap around. Deborah Servetnick: Exactly. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. And you just, it's, and, and it's also to some, to some extent, what I've found for myself is it becomes, 'cause I'm, I'm a huge seeker and I've got bookshelves full of books and at some point it becomes mental masturbation. It's just like, I'm just sort of, you know, feeding in another version of the story that, that ultimately my soul knows. Deborah Servetnick: Right. That's a great, that's a, that's, that was a perfect ending to that sentence because we, we do already know this stuff. We are just Matt Kosterman: pretending we don't, we're pretending we don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Deborah Servetnick: We're just remembering. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. When you, when somebody's journey, are you, are you, how do you handle body work? Matt Kosterman: Are you doing touch, Deborah Servetnick: glad you asked me this, because I'm a body worker first. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And for me, body work is an essential piece of, of the journey. And, um, and if that means that your hand is here and my hand goes on top of it, that's what that means. You're always clothed, right? Your clothes don't come off, or it's an, a non-sexual touch, but it is always movement through your energy. Deborah Servetnick: And, um, things can really get stuck in our solar plexus, in our chest, and, you know, um, in our sacrum. And I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of, a lot of stuff, injuries, trauma, um, a lot of things that get stuck. Um, uh, you know. Births, um, women have their period for I don't know how long, like 45 years or something. Deborah Servetnick: Right. And for the first 15 years, all we're thinking about is I wish it, we, I didn't have this thing. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: And we, we have been so talked out of our, of our experience and our, and the information we get from these processes that, uh, you know, when I look back to, to how I handled my period, I can't even believe it. Deborah Servetnick: And, and I spoke about it at a women's psychedelic conference in, in Vancouver. Oh, Matt Kosterman: I lost you. Matt Kosterman: Oh, Deborah Servetnick: did they Matt Kosterman: just let Deborah Servetnick: themselves be themselves? Matt Kosterman: Hold on, hold on. I, I lost you right after the, I'll have to edit this, but go, go back to, um, 'cause you, you froze. Yeah. So you spoke at a women's conference in Vancouver. Deborah Servetnick: In, okay. I spoke at a women's conference in Vancouver in 2022 and, and I was talking about that, you know, we have to have our inner world and our outer world really connecting. Deborah Servetnick: Women have been given that gift of, you know, giving birth and having our periods leading up to that. And it's, and you know, and for all the women that say like, but I never ever wanna have a baby. Why am I stuck with this period thing? It's like, it's like you don't ever have to have a baby. You have been handed this incredible relationship with the, you know, with the tides, with the moon, with your intuition, with, and, and, and we've been told to take a mile and just, you know, and like, you know, just keep going. Deborah Servetnick: Like push, Matt Kosterman: push through it. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Keep, and you know, I'm a girl so, you know, you can't tell me I can't do this just 'cause I get my period. And it's like, we did that one for a while. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: But it, it really is just more swimming upstream brought to us by men who are really good at swimming upstream. They've done it for so long, they're not happy. Deborah Servetnick: They, they want more love, they want better relationships. Yeah. You know, we all do. And, and here we are in this place where it really starts with us. We really gotta be much more loving with ourselves and, and we have to seek that connection with our spiritual center. We are part of the universe. The universe is always with us. Deborah Servetnick: We're never doing any of this alone. Matt Kosterman: Ever. Yeah. Never. Yeah. Not separate. Yeah. Even though we think we are, that's the game. Deborah Servetnick: I think I'm gonna build like a giant menstrual hut, you know? Matt Kosterman: Like of, of old Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Like a universal menstrual hut. So, you know, so we, we can all sit there and, you know, and, and just, you know, sit around and, and actually eat that chocolate that you're not eating for like those five days straight. I think that that was all, all the women in the men have like a lot of good, Matt Kosterman: a lot of, a lot of chocolate and listen to the day. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever listen to the, uh, have you heard of the band? Uh, Mr. Blotto? Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah, yeah. That's one of my fraternity brothers is a guitar player. Deborah Servetnick: Oh, that's Matt Kosterman: awesome. Yeah, they're fun. Mark. Um, well, Deb, thanks so much. This has been great. Uh, a, a wide ranging, uh, discussion. We kind of went all over the place, which I love. Matt Kosterman: That's my, one of my favorite things. Thanks for, for being here. Deborah Servetnick: Thank you for inviting me here. Um, you know, I, I think if I were gonna leave anybody with anything, please, it really is, you can have whatever you want. Um, the first piece of that is really asking yourself what you would love and what if it were easy, and then getting in alignment with it. Deborah Servetnick: If you're not feeling good, you're not in alignment. You wanna, you wanna get yourself into a good feeling place. That's the number one thing. Yeah. You know, you've paid the price of not being in a good feeling place. That's what your life is right now. So, you know, it doesn't take much, it just takes, you know, if you look at that radio that had those two little knobs, it really is, you know, tune it in, tune it in, tune it in a little less static, a little more of the song you wanted to hear. Deborah Servetnick: And now you're singing along and, and you know, you're in the car and now all the green lights you're getting, all the green lights. Matt Kosterman: Getting all the light right. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah, it's Smooth Sail and it feels great to be you Matt Kosterman: and I, and I would say I would add to that, which was advice that I got from my financial advisor, uh, Julie Murphy, who I interviewed months ago, uh, was ask the universe for help, as you mentioned earlier, like, you gotta ask, you know, she said to me, have, have you, have you? Matt Kosterman: And I was struggling mightily, have you asked? And I was like, well, would I ask? She's like, you gotta ask the universe. And, and I did it. And three days later the answer showed up. Deborah Servetnick: That's awesome. Matt Kosterman: And it showed up. Deborah Servetnick: And yeah. To know you're a resource and that, you know, to know, know that what you think about yourself is far more important than what anybody else thinks about you. Deborah Servetnick: It's none of your business what anybody thinks. Matt Kosterman: You're what anybody thinks of you. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a tough one in our society for sure. We've been, we've been very conditioned, um, to think that it matters. Deborah Servetnick: Yes, yes. And we don't wanna be selfish. Matt Kosterman: Right? Don't wanna be selfish and Yeah. Deborah Servetnick: Involved and, you know. Deborah Servetnick: But the thing is, um, if, if you're not your best friend, then you know. Matt Kosterman: Who is, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. You gotta be your best friend first. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. So I'll put, uh, contact and buy information in the, it will be in the, wherever it is on the bottom, you know, for those listening. Deborah Servetnick: Thank you. And anybody who's into like, the Grateful Dead kind of like realm of coaching, I have a specific coaching program or for Deadheads? Matt Kosterman: For Deadheads. Oh, beautiful. Oh Deborah Servetnick: yeah. That's great. And it's because, you know, we, we really, we really have, you know, heard the secret, like, you know, we listen for the secret and listen for the sound. And we, and we do know that, um, that it really is vibration. I mean, Mickey Hart plays that beam. And if you're still leaving and taking that bathroom break at that time, I'd like you to come back Matt Kosterman: in, come, come back. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's, it's funny, I, I, I was sort of grudgingly got into the dead in college 'cause I came from a, a, a very sort of wearing blue blazers and ties to school. And that dead was for weirdos and, you know, that kind of thing. And, and I, um, I never, it wasn't until not that long, I, I've not been a big LSD user, it hasn't been my medicine. Matt Kosterman: Uh, and perhaps I just haven't done enough, like a big enough dose. 'cause it, I'm, it's always, it's not been fun. But I did listen to, and I never really cared for the long, drawn out dead, you know, where they're just wandering and meandering. And then I think I was on, I think I took some mushrooms and listened to 'em, and I was like, oh, now I get it. Matt Kosterman: Oh, okay. Now it makes so much more sense. That's Deborah Servetnick: good Matt Kosterman: because, yeah. So sober is just not as, it's not as interesting to, to me. Um, Deborah Servetnick: no, it was, and, and you know what, what's really cool about it is you can, you can feel, at least I can feel, uh, you know. I gotta tell you, when I was at Grateful Dead 60, I was, I was on the rail like, like the three nights there. Deborah Servetnick: And I remember, um, thinking like, I feel like, I feel like we are really shifted the vibration. I feel like the collective, we are really raising the vibration of the planet right now. All these people in Golden Gate Park. And, uh, I, I even made it onto the, the video, which if you ever back and Yeah. Yeah. And when I look at it, I think to myself, God, I look so blissful and I really was. Deborah Servetnick: And you were. Yeah. And I, you know, and just being in good company with people, um, in that place where people are, are in the most enjoyment. I don't know any other place. I can feel that good with so many people all at the same time and not know the person next to me and still feel that good. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Yeah. It's a, it's a beautiful thing. I, I wish I had gone to concerts when Jerry was still alive. Deborah Servetnick: Yeah. Well, anytime you wanna go, you know, Matt Kosterman: I'll call you. Deborah Servetnick: I take my clients any, you know. Matt Kosterman: Okay. It'll be, it'll be therapy. Deborah Servetnick: My client. Yeah. We're going to the dead, so just, just know, you know. Yeah. Matt Kosterman: Amazing. Amazing. Matt Kosterman: Just come with Deborah Servetnick: me anytime, Matt Kosterman: Matt. Alright. Alright, Deb. Thank you. Deborah Servetnick: Thank you Matt Kosterman: so much. And, uh, have a great 2026. Deborah Servetnick: Thank you. And you too. I know, I know. This is gonna be a great year for everyone. Matt Kosterman: It will, yeah. Um, Deborah Servetnick: yeah. Really just line up and, and have it Matt Kosterman: and let's go. Deborah Servetnick: It's all yours. Matt Kosterman: Peace. Yeah.