Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The Man Who Got Away: The Lucille Butterworth Case | Cary Millhouse

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The Man Who Got Away: The Lucille Butterworth Case | Cary Millhouse · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Appoche Production.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Adam Shand. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoy the show,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: please subscribe and share it with your friends, even your enemies.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I'm not picky.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I've got several stories that I've followed for years that
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I simply can't let go of. Mysteries that should be solved,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: wrongs that should be righted. Often it's about supporting the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: efforts of those who seek justice, whether it's loved ones
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: of murder victims or the police officers who worked tirelessly
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  Speaker 2: to bring closure. The top of my list is the
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  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine disappearance and murder of Lucille Gay Butterworth.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: Twenty year old Lucille Butterworth vanished from a bus stop
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: at Claremont near Hobart.
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  Speaker 1: She was never seen again.
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  Speaker 2: Lucille was last seen around six pm on Monday, the
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  Speaker 2: twenty fifth of August nineteen sixty nine, at a bus
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: stop on Main Road at Claremont in Hobart, Tasmania. In
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, the coroner determined that Lucille accepted a lift
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: from the bus stop and was murdered on the Lyle
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Highway roughly halfway between Granton and New Norfolk around six
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: point fifteen pm. Who killed Lucille is not really a
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: mystery at all.
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  Speaker 4: The coroner found that, on the balance of probabilities, Lucille
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Butterworth was murdered by New Norfolk man Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
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  Speaker 2: Like many victims, Lucille knew her killer. This came to
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: light during an exhaustive and excellent investigation by three detectives
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: from Tasmania Police, David Plumpton, Christine Rushden and Carrie Millhouse.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Despite an exhaustive investigation and a coroner's finding, no one
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: has ever been charged with Lucille Butterworth's murder.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: So why hasn't Hunt been charged to put before the court.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: That's the question for the Tasmanian Director of Public Prosecutions.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Today.
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  Speaker 2: Hunt remains a free man. Time is running out. Lucille's
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: family are steadily dying off. Only her brother John remains
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: and I speak to him regularly. He never gives up hope,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: But I got to tell you, I'm having my doubts.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Two of the three cops who pursued Hunts so doggedly
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: from twenty ten have both retired now, but they will
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: never forget this case. Former Detective Constable Carry Millhouse is
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: writing a book about the investigation, and he's agreed to
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: talk about the fight to bring justice for Luciale.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Get a carry good.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Athnue Adam, and thank you very much for your unstinting
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: work on this case. You're still working on it and
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: even though you're retired, you should be playing at golf
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and enjoying your motor home life style that you've adopted.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: And your former colleague David Plumpton gave you high praise
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: when I called him today and I said, tell me
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: something about the way that Carrie regards this case. He said,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Carrie believes this matters, and it still matters today. Why
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: does it matter to you?
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Still? Carry?
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: See, it's just not justice.
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  Speaker 5: We know from our exhaustive investigation who's committed this abduction
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: of murder, and we just can't get it over the line.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: I said to you earlier that I believe it's like
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: a computer trying to load and it's ninety nine percent
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: and that we were spinning. We just can't get that
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: one percent to get over the line with it. It's
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: just so frustrating. We know from what the current has
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: supported that our offender is Jeffrey Charles Hunt. We presented
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: an overwhelming case, a circumstantial case to the DPP and
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: in their wisdom and they justified why, but they weren't
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: prepared to take it on for a case.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: So tell me how did you become involved in this?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Back in twenty ten, I believe.
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  Speaker 5: David Plumpton was fairly newly appointed as inspected to the
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: Lucky solb I was already there as a constable a
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: little while in. I think he had a visit from
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: the Butterweth brothers, Jim and John to know what was
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: going on with the investigation, and David obviously knew nothing
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: about it. He may have been aware of it, but
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: he got the file up from the Police Academy where
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: it was gathering dust down there, and thought he'd have
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: a bit of a look. And what he did find
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  Speaker 5: out was that the case had never been to an inquest.
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  Speaker 5: So a way of resurrecting the inquiry, I suppose, was
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: to prepare it for inquest, and he asked for volunteers
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  Speaker 5: in the office if anyone was keen, I was, and
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: I was very keen straight away, only for the reason
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  Speaker 5: that I as a seven year old when she went missing.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: I was aware that where Lucill went missing was close
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  Speaker 5: to my home, and I always read the newspaper articles
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  Speaker 5: and I always wanted to myself, I wonder what happened
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  Speaker 5: to Lucille. I wonder if anyone will ever find out
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  Speaker 5: what happened to her. And that was the reason I
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: was very interested in taking long with David Ask.
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  Speaker 2: It is a real classic true crime case, this one.
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  Speaker 2: The victim is almost an archetype. She was going to
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: be a beauty queen. She was headed to New Norfolk
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  Speaker 2: that night to attend a function for Miss Tasmania as
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  Speaker 2: a prelude to competing the following year herself.
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  Speaker 3: She had a boyfriend in New Norfolk, John Fitzger.
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  Speaker 2: She would regularly visit him up there, and the idea
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: was she was going to attend this function and then
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: meet John Fitzgerald afterwards. She never got to meet him,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and the alarm was raised the next day. The initial
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: investigation was, I guess typical of those years where the
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: police of the day, and it's hard not to be critical,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: had the attitude here's another young girl who's probably gone
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: off with another guy or gone to the mainland, she'll
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: come back in a few days, And of course these
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: days you'd say that vital first forty eight hours, the
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: opportunities were missed.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know whether they certainly did say, oh yeah,
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  Speaker 5: I'm sure come back. I just think it's an answer
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  Speaker 5: when they don't have answers to give the family it's done.
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: Know whether it's a way of trying to give them reassurance,
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: but they certainly didn't have answers at the time. We
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: know for sure that she was at the bus stoping claimant.
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: We have four people saw her at the bus stopping claimant.
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  Speaker 1: We had one.
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  Speaker 5: Critical witness that said he saw her, and she had
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: this prominent blonde hair.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: She was only had died on the friday before.
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  Speaker 5: She had a beautiful black coat with white fur trim,
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: and she was a beautiful twenty year old. So we
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  Speaker 5: had a fellow called Anthony Field. He was sitting in
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  Speaker 5: a car opposite waiting for his wife to finish at
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  Speaker 5: the chemist and he noticed her across at the bus stop.
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  Speaker 1: His wife came out, she got in the car, they.
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  Speaker 5: Drove off and he said, I'm pretty sure she wasn't there.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: After I drove off, but his critical evidence.
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  Speaker 5: He saw a Bomby turquoise car pull up next to
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  Speaker 5: her and then soon after she was gone and saves
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: the car. Now that at the time in ninety sixty
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  Speaker 5: ninems a critical piece of evidence. And I say critical
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: from what we know now. If they pursued that line
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: of inquiry to the degree that we do these days,
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: they may have had more success with it.
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  Speaker 2: And they might have connected that car with Jeffrey Childs Hunt.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: There was a clear connection to him, But that was
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: all to He happened much months later in your investigation.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: In the early days, when they finally accept that Lucille
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: was in fact an abductee and was probably dead, they
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: fixated on a guy called John Gannon Lonigan, a taxi driver.
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  Speaker 3: What was his form?
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  Speaker 5: Well, when I said to you before that the file
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  Speaker 5: was at the academy gathering dust. The file came up
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: and I had a look, and I took it home
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  Speaker 5: and returned the next morning and said to Inspector Plumpton,
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  Speaker 5: there's only one suspect, John Lonigan, because the file only
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: contained information relative to him. He's offending his motosot Randy
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: everything about him. And David said, yes, it looks that way.
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  Speaker 5: But there's more information relative to jeff What he told
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  Speaker 5: me then was in nineteen seventy six, Jeffrey made a
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: confession to Lucille's murder and disappearance.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right, because at that moment he committed another
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: sex murder Susan Knight, a real estate agent. He lured
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: her into a meeting and had killed her hastily concealed.
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  Speaker 2: Her body was picked up, and in the course of
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the interview with two detectives, he offered up a confession.
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  Speaker 2: Why wasn't that taken seriously back in the day. It
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: was quite detailed of how he picked her up at
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  Speaker 2: the bus stop, had taken her along there, had got
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to the location that was indicated by the coroner, and
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: she had a cramp in her foot or something. He
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: pulled over, and he said something came over him. He
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: tried to kiss as she struggled, He strangled her, killed her,
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  Speaker 2: put her in a fireman's lift, walked into the marshy
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  Speaker 2: swamps on the Dermitt River, and dumped her body. Wow,
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  Speaker 2: a stunning confession which seemed to connect to the facts
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  Speaker 2: of the case. I guess if that early work had
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: been done back in the day, back in ninety and
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  Speaker 2: sixty nine.
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  Speaker 1: It was an amazing confession. It wasn't just yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I did that.
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  Speaker 5: He went into detail with the detectives, detective Oulgarian Barry
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  Speaker 5: Dylon about how we he actually took her because they
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  Speaker 5: had him in custody for Susan Knight, and they thought
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: we might as well ask him about Lucille because they thought, well,
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: you know, it's very similar circumstances. So they asked him
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: and he put his hand up for it. Now, the
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: officer in charge, Inspector Orb Kenning, he was directly will
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: keep the police station back in those days, and he said,
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  Speaker 5: I don't want to hear anything of it. I'll go
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: and have a talk to him soon as he's got
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  Speaker 5: to say. So he went in there and spoke to Hunt.
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  Speaker 5: He came back out of the meeting and said, no,
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  Speaker 5: you blokes got it wrong. He doesn't know anything about that.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Hey. Gary and Dylan looked at each other and thought,
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  Speaker 1: that's not what he told us.
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  Speaker 5: So Barry Dylan went back in I believe, and the
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: same confession was admitted by Hunt, and they went and
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: said or Kening.
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  Speaker 1: No, no, no, he's good for it. He's put his
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: hand up for Lucille.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: You know, he's told us all about how he did it,
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: and or Kenny said, look, I don't hear another thing
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  Speaker 5: of it. He's in custody for Susan Knight. I don't
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: want that compromise. I don't want to talk about it again.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: And that was the end of that. And in those
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: days I leave it. Today, I mean, its subordination is
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: quite a serious matter. But in those days you didn't
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: question soon your obviously who he said, don't pursue it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: They didn't pursue it.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: And Canning had been convinced that Lonegan was the culprit,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: and on the face of it, he was a pretty
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: good suspect. He was a resident of New Norfolk. He
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: had a history of documented sex crimes. At least one
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: of those crimes involved picking up a woman from a
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: bus stop on the afternoon of twenty fifth August sixty nine.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: He'd failed to report for work. He was on his
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: own between the twenty third and twenty seventh. When his
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: wife got home, he had burns on his face and arms,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: had a new pair of pajamas. There were so many
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: fishy things. There was also in the back garden remains
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: of burnt items, including bits of a makeup compact, scissors,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: bits and pieces looked very very good. And even the
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: wife later on said that he'd done some brick work
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: at home because there'd been a terrible smell, and she
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: was convinced that Donagan had done it. Even when I
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: spoke to Lonigan's daughter years later, she was convinced he'd
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: done it. So I can understand why Canning was so
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: keen not to get distracted, I guess by Hunt's confession,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: but Kraggy's. I would have thought that those two detectives
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: could have made a bit more noise on the way through,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: because the record of interview, the interrogation register recorded that
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Hunt could not help with Lucille at all. So he
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: was really painted out of the story comprehensively by Canning.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah, lookorb Canning, for what I understand, was an ambitious man. Look,
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: he ended up becoming an assistant Commissioner, which such was
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: his ambition. So with Donigan, he'd obviously had his finger
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: on Lonigan for the whole time. And as I said,
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: all the statements and information pointed to Lonigan. Even I thought,
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: when I only had information relating to Lonigan, how could you.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Go past this guy.
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: But all Canning had put his career on the line
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: and said that John Lonigan was responsible for Lucio. Butworth
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: told the administration. And I guess now, if Hunt's admission
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: had to be taken seriously, he would have looked a
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: bit silly, I would have thought. So I can't say
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: conclusively that was the reason behind or can dismissing the admission,
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: but as a really battling one way, he didn't let
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: him pursue that more.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: It really is.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: And you know, that was a classic case of tunnel vision.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Had a good suspect eventually hoping you get that critical
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: piece of information that will put this bloke behind bars,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: but it never came, and it was your job when
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: you got the file to tear down the hypothesis like
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: a good detective does. Ewan Plumpton actually found Lot again.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: He was living up in Queensland, and I think from
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: what I read, he was pretty open about saying that
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: he had not done it. It admitted his past crimes,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: so pretty soon I think you were able to discount
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: possibility he was involved.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: Look the fact that he was never charged or they
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: never got as far as actually having evidence on him
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: so that would suggests that maybe he wasn't responsible.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of anomalies.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: Even his own wife and daughter suspected that he was
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: capable of something like that. He certainly was because he
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: did time in jail for sexual offenses, so he's certainly
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: capable of it. But because of that water's been muddied,
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: they failed to look at more obvious things. Now as
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: we know, this was seven years before Hunt did murder
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: Susan Knight. But there was the fact that they had
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: Anthony Field say he saw a turquoise holding right next
• 13:35
  Speaker 5: to the female. If they had pursued that better. It
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: wasn't until about twenty thirteen where I had conversations with
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: Hunt's family. Believe it or not, they'd never been spoken
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: to at any stage up until I spoke to them
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: some forty odd years later. Keen Hunt started telling me
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: about a car that the family had. It was a
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: turquoise car. Whether he said it was greeny blue, he
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: said turquoise. It was a light bulb moment familiar. I thought,
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: he what the family had a turquoise Bomby car.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my good.
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: You know why forty odd years later had this information
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: come out? If you murder investigation today is you turn
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: it over every stone, you know, you look everywhere. But
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: back in nineteen sixty nine to in the years to follow,
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: that in his degree wasn't taken and they really missed.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Something they did.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: And I think the other critical piece about that car
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: was that it had damage to one of the doors
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: that had been replaced with a different color. And your
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: witness Field had also seen that apparently.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Well he reported damage to.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: It's quite a good detailed observation's Anthony Field.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: He come from England only seven years before.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: So his knowledge of Australian beings may not have been
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: as good as it could have been. So he described
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: it as a bomby car, and then police took a
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: statement from him and he described it as an FJ.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: We don't know whether he was led by police to
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: say it was an FJ or otherwise, but he said
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: it had damage to just in front of the driver's door.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: And when David and inspect to plumped and I interviewed Hunt,
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: we put that damage to him about the turquoise holding,
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: and we were gobs made for him to actually say, no,
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: my car had damage on the passenger side just in
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: front of the door. I thought, why is he even
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: volunteer that information. He's trying to explain something he didn't
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: need to explain. We don't have the car to say
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: that the damage was on the right hand side or
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: the left hand side. But he just tried to explain
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: it away. And I thought that was more remarkable.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: To It was because by the time you got to
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: interview Hunt, you'd already done an exhaustive investigation. Really exemptary.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: By the way I've got I hand it to you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I've seen some pretty poor ones. This is a really
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: good one, And forty years after the fact, you're finding
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: witnesses that should have been interviewed in the first few days.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: You start to piece together the background of Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: It was troubled. He was from a big family there
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: in New Norfolk. He and his brother were albinos. They'd
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: been shunned by their fellows up there. He'd had trouble
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: adjusting to society. He was also accused of an attempted
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: sexual assault by one of the girls in his cohort
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: there in New Norfolk. He knew, this is what you established.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: He knew John Fitzgerald, Lucile's boyfriend. He'd even worked at
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Clyde Fitzgerald's shop in New Norfolk. So you quickly established
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: a connection between the victim and your suspect, to the
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: point where you had a testimony from John Fitzgerald who
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: said Lucille saw Hunt looking at her over the fence
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: when she was sun baking, and she, quite in a
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: derogatory tone, said, Whitey is looking at me. So you
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: set up this marginalized person who's an attractive female and
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you start to see a motive emerging here as you
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: went down that path and you're discovering Hunt's background.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: Where did it take you?
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: You mentioned earlier that a sexual offense at the time,
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: and let's say it was alleged, because he was never
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: convicted of anything.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: He did front Corp.
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: But it was dismissed and the victim and that case
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: was an eleven year old. This event took place in
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: a railway station just near his place. The victim's memories
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: are vague, which he does remember certain aspects of it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: He was charged with that offense and it went to
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: court in New Norfolk. And I believe and we could
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: never find the file. The file has been destroyed, but
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: we believe he was dismissed on the grounds of identification.
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: And I don't know what aspect of identification there was
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: a problem.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: With, but you're right he was ostracized. Him and his whole.
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: Family were albina apart from one sibling, so they all
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: suffered different points of bullying and finger pointing, and I
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: believe that made it very hard for them to interact.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: They didn't have many friends.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: Jeffrey in particular, he struggled with the violence in his
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: own home. His father was very violent towards his mother,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: and he felt very deeply for his mother. We don't
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: know how mixed up he became as a result of
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: his upbringing.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: And you even found out that his father, Bill, who
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: was a veteran, as you say, he was a bit
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: of a drunk and he abused his wife and the
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: kids were exposed to that, and there seemed to be
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: some sort of relationship between Bill and the local constabatory,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: where I think you ran the theory that young Jeffrey
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: had been protected from some consequences early on, which might
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: have been telling in the final outcome.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: There was certainly a lot easier to cover your backside
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: in those days and look after people if you wanted to,
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: and I believe that, Yeah, Bill Hunt, he had a
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: really good relationship with the local sergeant. He had been
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: a sergeant in Norfolk for almost a decad, I believe,
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: so they formed a very strong bond. They drink at
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: the RSL together. And there was one witness that attended
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: the Norfolk station reporter case of his clothes been taken
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: from the clothesline, snowdropping we call it. And always in
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: a conversation this witness, he spoke to the sergeant a sergeant.
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: Doesn't know which one he said, but the sergeant said
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: to him, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know who's taken lou Sille,
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: and then he didn't discuss it any further.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: We believe that that sergeant knew.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: The circumstances surrounding it, but when we spoke to him,
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: he'd suffered quite a few strokes and his reliability. We
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: couldn't really tell whether he was giving us a bit
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: of a run around, or whether he was genuinely forgetful
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: or otherwise. But we just think a lot of people knew,
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: including two Jeffrey's siblings. We can only suggest we think
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: they knew. We can't say conclusively, but I think two
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: of the brothers were kept in the dark pretty much
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: by the family, and they ended up being our fantastic
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: witnesses to give us an insight into the family life
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: growing up and also the vehicle that the family had
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: for many years. Jeffrey maintained two police in some of
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: those interviews and statements that he didn't know Lucille, he
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: didn't drive a he didn't have a license. He maintained
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: all that he was getting away with it because it
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: can be disproved. But when we interviewed him, we were
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: able to disprove all those things. It was quite pleasing
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: to see him starting to pedal backwards on some of
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: his statements because we were able to prove he had
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: a driver's license at the time of taking Lucille. We
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: prove he drove to work, and we proved what car
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: that he drove in, which is a Bomby Turk boys
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: holding one way in and out of Hobart in those days,
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: and you know, in fact, was one road through Clamont.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: You couldn't go alternate roads.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: No other way.
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: We know that he drove past that way on that
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: night because he dropped a colleague off from work at
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: his home in Milwaukee. And drove past Lucille, So we
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: know he was driving, we know what time he was
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: driving past, and we know.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: That he knew Lucille.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: And it was quite satisfying for us to actually disprove
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: all those points. And David Plumpton in fact said in
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: one of your previous podcasts, we said, we can prove
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: that Jeffrey Hunter liar. We just can't prove that he's
• 21:03
  Speaker 5: a murderer.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Except that it came out of his mouth with the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: police and then in jail not once, not twice, not three.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: But four times.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I believe four confessions with ringingly similar content and detail.
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: During the inquest, and we presented the case. Now at
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: the file we presented to the inquest with thirty blinders,
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: it was extensive, included clear voyance because they were quite
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: popular back in the day, and actually included so much information.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: But during the inquest, a seven week in quest, we
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: had three former convicts or prisoners if you like, came
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: forward that had spent time in prison with Hunt. Now
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: that all spent time with him at different points of
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: his centers. Now, jeffing Up was in JAF for twenty
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: four years, so those three prisoners didn't know each other.
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: They didn't know each other had come forward, but they'd
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: all come forward with various piece of information. Now one said,
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: when I was in prison with Hunt, went up to
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: him and I said, hi, mate, what are you in for?
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: And Hunt said, I'm in for murder. But they haven't
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: got me on.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: The other one yet, they haven't found the body.
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: The next prisoner had a similar conversation with him and
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: Hunt spraguing about having killed Dual Butterworth completely unsolicited. Witnesses
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: come forward and Dual Butterworth, and that in itself is
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: fairly reliable because he knew very well the inquest was
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: for Lucille Butterworth. But he quoted Hunt the way hand
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: said it Dual Butterworth.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Another prisoner his information was.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: The conversation went along the lines of if you ever
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: want to pick up a girl, the best way is
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: should rive past the bus stop if they're looking a
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: little bit lost, or they're looking like they need to write.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: He said that's the best way to pick up a girl.
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: That's quite profound as well. So that's all circumstantial evidence
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: on top of everything else we had. So we put
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: the matter to the DPP and to review, and we
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: thought we had an overwhelming case of circumstantial.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Events, and the coroner agreed and he came to the
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: view that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was the corpet. It's not
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: his role to apportion guilt or innocence, but certainly to
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: play out the facts that can then be taken up
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: by the Director of Public Prosecutions. I reading all the eddents,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I thought this blokes a walk up start to be charged.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: You'd a fantastic interview with him where all the inconsistencies
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: were highlighted. You'd done the work and you tied him
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: to a story and his own lies in there where
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: he said he didn't drive the car, didn't have a license,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: he always caught the bus to motors there his workplace
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: in Hobart. He couldn't have picked up Lucir because he
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: didn't have a license or a car. And this was
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: all false because you knew that he'd driven the whole
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: family to a wedding in Lonceston prior to this. So
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: you were able to put all this stunning evidence to him,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: and what was his response. He started to get very
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: angry and pounding the table and other sort of stuff,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: And it was a classic case of good cop and
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: bad copy. He had plumb than there who was sort
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: of jollying Hunter Long where you were delivering the killer blows,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: as it were, from all the evidence that you'd created.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And I thought the ennybody was going to confess, but
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: he didn't. Yeah, he'd lost his He had a chance
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: to confess for real and didn't take it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: It was a bit like a volleyball game. You sort
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: of set the ball up for the slam. You know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: I don't have a license. I never had a license. Okay, Jeffrey,
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: when did you get your licensees? So I was nineteen
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah, And I already knew at this point
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: that I had some information from a former police officer
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: that left the job Christmas time ninety sixty eight or
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: January by ninety sixty nine. And in those days, police
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: officers took people for their driver's license, and he actually
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: took Jeffrey for his driver's license. He can't remember the
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: day or date, but that particular police officer lost his
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: job with Tasmania Police at the Christmas in ninety sixty eight,
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: and he had already awarded Jeffrey license.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: So that proved and I put that to Jeffrey and oh,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I can't be sure.
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: I can't be sure of the time, but for forty
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: years he's been made. I never had a license at
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: that time, so you know, it was those sort of
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: things where he's backtracking. And you know the same with
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: the car. I never drove that car, but his dad
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: literally never drove. He did not drive the car. The
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: only person to drive the car was Jeffrey, and he
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: bought that car so the whole family could take a
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: trip to Long System to a family wedding, and Jeffrey
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: drove that particular time. So yeah, all those all those
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: pieces of evidence were fantastic.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what was brilliant in this interview was that Plumpton
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: was allowing him to extemporize on all this detail to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: show his incredible recall of seeming the unimportant minutie of
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: his life, so obviously demonstrating his memory, and then you
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: would come in with specific points about Lucille. Suddenly he
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: would develop amnesia all life.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was frustrating too, because you've got nowhere
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: to go, you know very well that we've got him
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: in a corner. He just needed him to say, yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: I did it. You know, that was particularly frustrating. My
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: dad was a prison officer for thirty five years. He
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: knew Hunt, he spent time with Hunt. He just said
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: that he's count as the shit house rat. He's very shrewd.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: And I had a chat with Hunt outside the station
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: now just before we drove him home after the interview,
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: and I was just chatting with him about It's funny
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: he knew my dad too. Here he put the Millhouse
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: name to it, and he just started talking about it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: And he started talking to him on a casual basis
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: about nothing that's going to give him issues like his
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: dad and my dad and everything.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And oh wow, what a memory. He's just so fluent,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: cunning as the word.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And so those confessions came at a time when he
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: felt very secure. He was in a minimum security prison,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I think it was a prison farm, and they gave
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: him some dogs and he had some sheep, and he
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: felt like he had a bit of position and comfort
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: in life. And he was then seeking friends which he'd
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: never had before in his life. So, and you don't
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: have that option anymore in Tasmania for a minimum security
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he could have been offered to him
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: that he could have served out his jail term in
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: such an environment that he might have offered a confession up.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he may very well have done.
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: But in those early days after he made that confession
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: and all Canning shutting down, he had uncle Max Moult,
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: who's also he was a detective.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: I believe that.
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: A few people who got around him family included you
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: keep your mouth shut. I don't ever talk of it again.
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: If you ever asked, don't speak of it again. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: the small window with the confession was made that all
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: Canning shut down was lost. But this investigation was completely thorough.
• 27:41
  Speaker 5: There were people that we had spoken to the meeting
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: that Lucy went to in an all folk, no one
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: ever spoke to anyone at that meeting because, as you know,
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: John Fitzgerald was attending that meeting, and in any murder case,
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: you perhaps look at the de facto or the husband
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: or the wife or the person in the relationship. And
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: no one spoke to anyone at that meeting to determine
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: John Fitzgerald's demeanor, you.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Know he was or otherwise.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: It just seems so incomplete, Yeah, very incomplete. And I
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: guess we could have thought that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: out of sight out of mind. He was serving a
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: life sentence without the prospect of parole back in those
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: days when you had those sort of sentences, and then
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: there was a change.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: He was given a minimum sentence and he.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Gets out and pretty soon we start to hear stories
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: about him hanging around caravan parks where there were women
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and possibly going back to his old tricks. This bloke
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: is a recalcitrant sex offender who should never have been released.
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: In my opinion, yeah, absolutely, I can agree with that,
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: and I can't clarify his behavior after that time, but
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: I know that prior to murdering Susan Knight in nineteen
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: seventy six, he become very tempted in a lot of ways.
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: There was people that he was pursuing prior to the murder,
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: in the months prior, trying to set them up in
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: the end the way that Susan Knight was taken down unfortunately.
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: For example, Jeffrey Hunt, he responded to a notice in
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: the local newspaper a nineteen year old girl had offered
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: her services as a babysitter, so it was advertised in
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: the miscellaneous part of the newspaper and said Hunt was
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: replied to it ringing her and said I've got two
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: children the agents of this and that can we meet
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: to discuss it? So on the Monday morning that was
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: the arranged time he rocked up at her house. He
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: must have been sitting off it because once her husband
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: left for work, he knocked on the door some hour early.
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: She was still dressed in her NightWare. It turned out
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: to be a neglige. She told us an interview was
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: the one she worn on a honeymoon, so she was
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: quite attractive to Hunt, so she felt uncomfortable she invited
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: him in anyway. That started to discuss the circumstances around
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: his children being babysat without notice. He then lunged at
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: her on the couch. He grabbed her and graped her,
• 30:10
  Speaker 5: and she screamed. And she was on the lower level
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: of a townhouse, and the people upstairs can be heard
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: running across the floor, obviously to see what the screams were,
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: at which point Hunt then fled the apartment and left. Now,
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: this particular witness gave a statement to police and described
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: who he was. He wasn't identified until he was in
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: custody for the murder and on TV, and then she
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: went to police and said that man that's on TV
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: for that particular matter, he was the man that attacked me.
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: The police officers at the time said, well, look, he's
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: in custody now for a serious matter and he's unlikely
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: beginning out of jail, and they never pursued her sexual
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: assault case, and that lady today still grieves over that
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: lack of justice.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean this guy seriously, he's better off in jail.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: He finally gets parole and has plans to leave Tasmania
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: to get a caravan and drive around Australia. My goodness,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: what an opportunity for a sex offender without regret, to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: take up his old profession once more. And luckily that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: was stopped and the parole his conditions were changed, so
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: he has to remain within Tasmania. So he finds himself
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: put in a let's say, a northern Tasmanian town. I'm
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: not going to reveal the town because there's enough people
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: hastling him already. I've got no sympathy for him, but
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: he is in a kind of purgatory where he's better
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: off in jail.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: And in fact, I went to the.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Location where he is a few years ago and I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: was told that it'll all be dark. He doesn't come out.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: He only comes out to go and see his parole
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: officer in Devonport. The only way you'll know he's in
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: there is the heating pipe will be on, it'll be warm.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So sure enough it was warm, and he was in there.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: And I spent most of the night in an awful
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Tasmanian weather was pouring and shocking. And the next time
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I missed him and he's gone off to his appointment
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: in Devonport. And I happened to catch him on the
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: way out, and I decided not to confront him him
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: but to follow him to see what he did. And
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: he had to walk I think about a four hundred
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: meter journey back to the place where he's getting his
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: community bust to his residence. But he did this two
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: and a half three kilometer secuitous route which was clearly
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: about Canas surveillance that he knew people were following him.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: So I thought, this, what sort of life is this
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: bloke got? He's living on his own. Family, I don't
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: think talks to him very much, and there he is.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I meanwhile, this whole case is just I was reflecting
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: this afternoon carry actually that what happens to these cases
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: where all the witnesses die off. A lot of people
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: you spoke to fifteen years ago are probably dead now
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: or their memories have failed. Could they even go before
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a court. Lucille's parents are dead. Her brother Jimmy, who
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: had driven the investigation for years as also did him,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: went up there to Hunt's town and I thought was
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: going to murder him, and you're offside of Plumpton had
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: to virtually cut him off at the past, so he
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: didn't do that. Jimmy's gone, John Fitzgerald, the boyfriend's gone.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: There's only one brother left, John butter Worth. And it
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: was so sad a few years ago when in anger
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and frustration he goes down there to the spot where
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: you believe Blue Seal was dumped for one of a
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: better word, with a shovel and was digging himself, had
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: his scuba gear out, was diving in the river himself,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: hoping against hope that something would be just. So something
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: was being done. Of course, the way the Dermot works,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: if Hunt had put her body in the river would
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: have been taken by the current, probably the same day,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: fast flowing river.
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: Look, the reason we looked at that particular spot, because
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: when he confessed in nineteen seventy six, he actually identify
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: where he had dubb Bluse Hill, and he was specific
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: in the fact that he said, as you said earlier,
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: he tried to kiss her, she resisted. He then, I
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: don't know what overcame me and strangled, strangled it to death.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: And then in his admissions, he said he took her
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: in a fireman's carry out of the vehicle to walk
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: towards the river through the shrubs and dumped her. Then
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: he said got back to the car, one of the
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: shoes still there and her handbag, so he also took
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: them out as well, So his emission was very specific.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Now, we for.
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: One month dug an area around that particular point. We
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: had nineteen sixty nine satellite aera photography from that particular site,
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: so we can see what it looked like in ninetly
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: sixty nine and we can see what it looked like today.
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: It was very similar in appearance. But where police dug
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: recently was in an area that was obviously an open
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: space where Hunt said he took her out towards the river. Now,
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: I'd say the river from his car would be one
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: hundred and fifty meters. We don't know how far he
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: walked out, but that area where he walked out was
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: never looked at because of swamp land. At the time
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: of our our digging excavation. It was a king tie,
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: would you believe, So right up to where his car
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: would have been, we had tider water, so it was
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: impossible to actually dig anywhere outside there area that we had,
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: and the area that we had was simply not the
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: place because it was just a car park basically.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Now, that area back in sixty.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: Nine was used by main roads when they were building
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: the highway to double the gravel their excavators and everything,
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: so that's why that was there. So that was a
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: site that people use to go parking with their other
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: and smooch and etc. And we believe from what we
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: can see from the era of photography that there was
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: a bit of an alcove where he could actually drive
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: in there not be seen from the main road and
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: the rest history. We certainly believe that's the spot where
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: it would have been.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: And this was at corroborated by one of the convict witnesses,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: if you like. Philip Paris said much the same sort
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: of thing. So it's quite mystifying what happens now, because
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: it must have been so disappointing to you when the
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: coroner was so emphatic about the excellent investigation, the mountains
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: of circumstantial evidence, but the DPP declined to put him
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: before the court.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: Unfortunately, the matters before a coroner not admissible in a
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: Supreme court, So anything that was said in there is
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: not admissible and couldn't be used. But what happened in
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: the inquest for one day, Hump was afforded one day's defense.
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: In that one day's defense, they had a lawyer come in,
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: a good criminal lawyer come in and start crossing examining
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: some of our witnesses. And the way he tore down
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: one of those ex prisoners and Jeffrey's brother King, it
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: was really harsh. Everyone's seen it on TV, the way
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: they defense lawyers work. He tore them up pretty much
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: about the unreliability of their memories and it was really
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: hard to watch. So I imagine if we did ever get
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: the matter to a court based on circumstantial evidence, it
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: would be very, very hard to convict, and I think
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: that's probably how the DPP saw it. With as you said, Adam,
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: the witnesses all dying out, and we've lost a lot
• 36:59
  Speaker 5: more since the two thousand and sixth An inquest as well.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: But the unreliability of memory defense would tear that apart.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: It'd be hard to watch well.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: But you've got to put your faith in juries to
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: occasionally get this right, because you had the stunning precedent
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: really where you had the murder of alleged murder of
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Bob Chappell by his partner Syni Or Fraser in two
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: thousand and nine, where there was no body again, a
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: lot of circumstantial evidence, a lot of post offense conduct
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: issues like lies, and they were able to convict syon
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Neil Fraser.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: And I think there was less evidence in that case.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And I wonder whether this is a bit of judicial conservatism.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: The previous DPP tim Ellis had been fairly i'd say
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: adventurous by bringing that case to Cord he had success.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: Do you think you're a victim of that?
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: Well, I can speculate in that direction, and I actually
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: have said that looking at the circumstantial events related to
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: Sir Neil Fraser, I believe that the Hunt and Butterworth
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: case we had so much more circumstantial evidence, but couldn't
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: get over the line. And I actually saw the coroner
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: just in a casual conversation. I said, oh, they're not
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: running with it, and the jaw dropped and they're not
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: like that. I mean, he had to stay reasonably professional,
• 38:17
  Speaker 5: but I could see his surprise after knowing what we know.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Mmm, so do you feel like this is unfinished business
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: for you?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Carry?
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: I always hope that I'm going to get a phone
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: call one day to say, look, Hunt wants to speak
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: to you. We know he's done it. We absolutely know.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: And the two of the brothers have said he's done this.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: You know they know. People close to this know.
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: We all know John Boworth. He's not been able to
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: move forward with his life ever because you know, he
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: promises mum. You know, we'll never give up on this, Mum.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: We'll find Lucille for you. We'll never give up. And
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: I saw John only this month and I said to him, look,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: be satisfied. You've you've honored your comment to your mum.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: I said, we know what happened to steal, we know
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: where she is. Forgive yourself, John, if you've done what
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: you can. We're not going to give up until a
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: space until Hunt dies and then Neill take that, you
• 39:16
  Speaker 5: take that with him. But yeah, it's a murderer who's
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: got away with it.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Hunt was born in nineteen fifty, makes him seventy five.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Now he's not getting any younger. All the witnesses are dying.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: You wonder what happens to this case. So what happens
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: when he dies? Do you think the police just stop?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Is that what happens in these cases when there's no
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: longer anybody to lock up.
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: The potential for prosecution is pretty much done, so it
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: can only be convicted in the public call of opinion
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: as they call it. I think it's so frustrating because
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: the whole Naufai community they all know, everyone knows, but
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: we just can't get the man convicted of Lucille's death.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: It's up to him, really, isn't it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Listen, Carry you've done your best, along with Plumping and
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Christine Rush and a fantastic team.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: You can be proud of yourselves what you did.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: And really, for police officers, it's not about the result,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: it's about the process. Doing everything you can to honor
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: your promises to family and loved ones that everything shall
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: be done. No stones should be left unturned. And I
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: think this was an exemporary investigation of which you can
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: be dutifully proud, because this was one of those things
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: where you didn't really get a lot of support for
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the whole investigation.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: You did it off the side of.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Your desk, almost a part time investigation amongst everything else
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: that you were dealing with at.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: The dass of CIB.
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: That's right, as I said, inspect to plump and ask
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: for anyone to volunteer to put the matter to an inquest.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So I'll put my hand up.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: So along with other duties, I started investigating Lucille, and
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: to the point where I was sometimes afforded two or
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: three weeks specifically for Lucille, but then I had to
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: go back to my volume of crime carburgs and homeburgs,
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: et cetera. So it really was just how we managed
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: to afford it. And you mentioned Christine Russia and when
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: I managed to gather so much information that had becoming
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: overwhelming because if I speak to one person that at
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: least to five more, those five lead to another five
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: and then you've got more questions than answers. So Christine
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: come on board as an analyst and started documenting everything
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: and did analytical reports which were absolutely top class. And
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: that's how we rolled and David plumped and oversaw the
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: whole matter. So it wasn't a case of let's get
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: this cold case team on it. We did it on
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: the side of our desk, as we say, And after
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: David came forward and asked volunteers, took five more years
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: to get that do inquest.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So that's how long it took.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well done, But I really appreciate that on behalf
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: of the Blue Seal and her family, So thanks very much,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: thank you. That was Curry Milhouse, retired Tasmanian detective on
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the ongoing mystery into the fate of Blue Seal.
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: But it worth not really a mystery at all.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: This is normally the moment where I say, anybody with
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: evidence should come forward, call crime Stoppers one OU hundred,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: triple three, triple zero.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: But there is no mystery here. We know who did it.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: It's now up to Jeffrey Charles Hunt to search his
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: soul and see if he can come forward to resolve this.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: If he has any belief in God or the afterlife,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: this is his moment to clear his conscience. I'm not
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: sure that he will. He's deep in denial, deep in
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: self justification. That's often what happens in these cases. But
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: it is a terrible shame, and I do feel a
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: little bit of despair for the family and that they
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: put so much into this investigation, so much hope in
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: the police would do the right thing, and they did,
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: only to be disappointed by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I understand the limitations with which they work, but still
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: this was a very good case and Lucille her memory, unfortunately,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: may be lost, replaced by new cold cases, by new
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: tragedies that are failed to be investigated. We sometimes we
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: don't learn the lessons. You see this in so many
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: areas of the criminal law. The same mistakes keep getting
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: made over and over again. Now with excuses of lack
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: of resources, lack of staff. Things get done once over lightly.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: But the dead only deserve the truth. And this is
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: what Carrie and his mates in Tasmania Police did for Lucille.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately it wasn't enough anyway, No much more we can
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: do with at the moment. But if someone does have
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: some information, please come forward, anything at all. Maybe he's
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: told somebody else, Maybe there's one more piece of evidence
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: that can be the final piece that says to Jeffrey
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Charles h It's time to confess. Thanks once again for listening.
• 43:28
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• 43:31
  Speaker 2: This has been real crime with Adam Shanned. Thank you
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: for listening.
• 43:43
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