Latest / Bottom Line on Sports / NFL Rookie Pay Scale, Portland Trailblazers Cheap Owner and an Ohio State QB Controversy Brewing?

Transcript

NFL Rookie Pay Scale, Portland Trailblazers Cheap Owner and an Ohio State QB Controversy Brewing? · Bottom Line on Sports

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: What's up, everybody?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of The Bottom Line on Sports, our show about the intersection between sports and business.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is Jeremy King.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm John-Jacques Taylor.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And have I got a number for you today?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't figure out whether to give you 12.5 or 87.5.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them are crazy numbers that Kellen DeBore, the head coach at Alabama, will be making because he just got a brand new deal at$12.5 million a year, I believe for seven years.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's insane to me because last time I talked, people, last time I let people talk about firing him at the end of last year.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when you when you when you texted me that, my first response was when I saw the picture, because I didn't read it, I just saw a picture.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Oh my God, was Caitlin de Boer just fired?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I looked at the when I looked at the picture, it was like seven years.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So not only do they lock him up, not only did they re-sign him, they locked him up for seven years.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I wonder if there's any outs.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's got to be some outs in that contract, right?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe not.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I bet he doesn't want any.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's uh it's interesting because I'm always curious, like, what's what's the timing?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why why write now?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Why'd you have to do it now?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And for the school, it's all about why do you lock yourself in where you have no flexibility and you gotta write him a check uh according to what I read for the full amount if you fire him for anything other than cause.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, is that right?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't see that.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's that's significant.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they they've made a a like a Jimbo Fisher move with AM where you sign him this deal.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why smart people do deals like this.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I understand why Kellen De Boer said, hey man, uh hurry up, give me that pen over here before you take their mind.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh yeah, no, I think Kalen De Boer is an excellent coach.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think he doesn't have the resources at the university uh to compete at the same level uh as you know, a lot of these bigger schools, Big Ten schools, or some of these Texas schools.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: He just or or Cal California schools, he doesn't have it.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the other thing is the uh the other fan base is crazy.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, most big-time college football fan bases are crazy, but they're at the elite level of fan craziness.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, okay, hold on.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Crazier than Ohio State fans?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do you think?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And here's why.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, aside from Nick Saban, they change coaches all the time.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: They would never have Earl Bruce Gold's six years of 93.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: They just you you got to go.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they would never have some of the years we had before Irving Myers showed up, um, you know, that were less than stubborn.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: They would fire the coach that year.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So at Ohio State, they are uh they're crazy, but they have a a level of uh wait, so so you think the fans are responsible?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, dude.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fan base there creates such there, ain't nothing else there.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so so well, okay.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well I mean, literally, there's nothing else there.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the relative craziness of the fans can be measured by how quickly a coach departs.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, okay, interesting.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like now you could, if you were on the outside, you say, What are you talking about?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing in Columbus.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, if you want to play that, there's nothing in Columbus.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they got a they got a they got a professional hockey team.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Two hours to the north, they got every sport that you want.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Two hours to the south, they got every sport that you want.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just whether you want Cleveland or Cincinnati.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, so there's a lot there's there.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just as you know, I was in Col I was just in Columbus for the last few days.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just got back yesterday.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's a it's the biggest city in Ohio, uh or it's roughly the same size as Cleveland.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's bigger than Cincinnati, maybe slightly smaller than Cleveland, but it's it's it's a major city.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a state capital, it's very different than Tuscaloosa.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so you know, but in Alabama, Tuscaloosa, it's Auburn, it's Alabama, but it's that's what it is.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's no professional teams there to take your mind off of it during the offseason.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's no offseason.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have anything other than a stellar season or you have a bad loss or somewhere, you know, people got nothing to focus on but that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a great, but there's a great Groucho Marx joke that I want to tell you.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Why did the African explorer go to Alabama to hunt elephants?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's where the Tuscaloosa.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very old Grouch at Marx joke.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent, excellent.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh Animal Crackers was a movie million years ago, but a very famous movie.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: One of the best lines.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: One of the one of the one of my all-time favorite kind of you know, bad jokes.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: But you're gonna have Peter banging down the doors trying to get us off the air.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, let's ship that to Alabama.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's a good way to segue into football.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of the topics we got today is the evolution of the first round draft pick money.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really a game changer um when this happened, uh, after I think the 2011 season.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And here's why it was a game changer.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let me see.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it was a game changer because before you'd have the draft, you get all excited, and then it became time for me to hold out.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get my best deal, I need to set the market and get a new deal.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, 2011 was the last time uh we had a non-rookie scale, and Sam Bradford signed a six-year, 78 million dollar deal with 50 million guaranteed.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the problem was which, by the way, was not a big number today, huge number then.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Huge number then.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem was, what if he can't play?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've just committed six years, yeah, 58 million to this cat, and he can't play.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when the rookie wage scale got implemented.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: It basically ended holdouts because uh all we're arguing over is a little bit of language that you know is not a big deal at the end of the day.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so the deals get done, the players get in the camp early.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's it's uh it's made that a lot better.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you think about the rookie wage scale in general?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure it screws the players.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, oh, for for sure, especially in a league where you know, guaranteed money, although it's getting better, but guaranteed money is is is harder to come by.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm sort of of two minds about it, because from a team perspective, you kind of had to draft Sam Bradford, even though Sam Bradford's about my size, you know, and you knew you knew he was going to get injured every you know with within about 10 minutes in the in the NFL, but you kind of didn't have a choice.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that probably wasn't the that probably wasn't the right way to go.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: A rookie wage scale uh is probably okay right now, the way it works for the top of the draft, you know, the top 10 players.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: But boy, once you get off the top 10, then that rookie wage scale is well is really tricky.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Check this out, man.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're a good person to run this past because you're a numbers guy, you're a money guy.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we just said Sam Bradford in 2011, 15 years ago, six years, 78 million, 50 guaranteed.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's basically 13 million dollars a year with 50 guaranteed.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: The number one pick in the draft this year, Francisco Mendoza, for all intents and purposes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Fernando.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Fernando 54.6 million over four years, which is 13.6.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: $600,000 improvement in 15 years.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: This level of money is, I mean, do you think the owners, how much does a franchise value increase its value in 15 years in the NFL?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how much does how much how much does the Raiders franchise value increase if Fernando Mendoza is good?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's it's it's a it's a really it's a really tricky proposition.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think the the length of the deals, the rookie contract deals, which are I think it's four years with a fifth-year option, generally how they're generally how they're structured.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: That that may be that may be too much.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe that you can create some sort of offset that if a player performs at a certain level, then he's got the ability to renegotiate after a year or two, or what whatever it might be, you know, whether that's whatever measurables you can you can get in there.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's I can see the merits of both sides, but fundamentally, I agree with you.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: The players are gonna get screwed in the end.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's no I mean anytime you talk about anybody's getting a wage scale, uh, even if you're talking about money that we would all like to have, you're talking about something that almost 99.999% of the time is going in favor of ownership or management.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because they, you know, they don't want to cap on how much they can make, but you always want to cap on how much salary, money, wages you have to pay out.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's basic business, even for a non-NBA person like myself.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: The but if you look at the look at Major League Baseball, they don't have a salary cap.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, the salary cap is going to be the biggest sticking point, and probably the reason the players are gonna get locked out this year.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: But um, that is very true.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the difference though is they get your rights for seven years, um, much like the NFL.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so say Fernando Mendoza plays out his contract, he's not free, he's not a free agent, because then it becomes we can put the franchise tag on you twice, and again, okay, you're going to make 40 million dollars a year on the franchise tag, but in the open market, you could be Dak Prescott, you can make 60 million, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody's turning their nose up at 40 million unless I can make 60 million, right?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's all a relative thing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the numbers sound crazy, you know, the numbers are so high, but that's not the issue.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: The issue is what will the market bear for this particular player, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and this this sort of you know strangles that market.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: It it creates an artificial and you know it creates an artificial ceiling, not an artificial floor.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know what the dirty little secret is about any salary cap.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm leaning closely, I can hear this.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: The dirty little secret about any salary cap is it's only designed to stop owners from spending against themselves.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's we can't control ourselves because if pink wants to offer you a hundred million and I think it's stupid, I gotta offer you 101.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then Pink goes, no, no, we'll give you one on five.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're bidding against themselves because they can't control themselves.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they say, We gotta put a salary cap in.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's it's it's probably the answer is there probably shouldn't be a salary cap.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the answer.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's there's no other salary cap in any other business.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can pay your employees at the companies you've owned however much you want to pay.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um the but there's yeah, the yeah, yes, there the answer is there shouldn't be a salary cap.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I I agree with that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: There should be there should be some sort of mechanism that if if I so so in other words, if there's no salary cap, that's that's fair, but there also should be a mechanism that the player can't the player is gonna have to we have to figure out a way to not guarantee the player money on a rookie contract because that's also unfair as well, you know.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I and I I don't know where the I don't know where the middle I don't know where the middle ground is there.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't you know we always talk about it, and it doesn't matter whether you're talking about NFL salary cap or NIL money or whatever, uh, and I'm always for the players, but there's also there's always something in place where if you don't perform to the level that you're supposed to, that's right, like any other job.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're either gonna take a pay cut or you got to go.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so it's not one-sided.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if if that was if that was there, um uh then I think then I think you definitely could live without a salary cap.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And what what will end up happening is that you will have what happens in the you know English Premier League or in Major League Baseball, which is that you end up having six to eight contenders every year, and those leagues do extremely well with having six to eight contenders every year.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it is anyway.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it is anyway.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's true too.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: We could go to uh we go to NFL.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: NFL is a little different because it's so injury managed.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's about whether your team is hurt or whether it's not hurt.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you go to uh baseball where there's no salary cap, you look at the start of the season and go, oh, these uh you know, these seven teams from the American League will probably make the playoffs.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'll say that there may be one or two out of that seven that's different than we thought.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, somebody always has an outlier year, but you know, we can tell you that for the most part, you know, the top money-paid teams are going to be in the playoffs.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: For the most part, there's always there's always a met outlier.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's like it's like baseball, baseball and football are very similar in this regard, which is if you look at football and you say, okay, go division by division, say who's who's the best quarterback in that division, chances are that team's gonna make the playoffs.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you go into major league baseball and you say who's got the best starting rotation, generally you know who's gonna make the playoffs.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you look at these numbers, do anything stand out to your uh computer mind?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what what I thought was I looked at like Kyler Murray in 2019.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was he was uh, you know, over over the turn over the five-year term, he was at uh 35 million.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And already, and Kyler Murray's a you know a current name in the in the NFL.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um now Mendoza's already at 54.6 million.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So there has been a significant jump in the last six years.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, in the last six years.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: However, is that jump, does that jump reflect the popularity of the league?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Does that you know I I know it's there's a formula that determines that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say I and I didn't I neglected to uh look up the formula, I could probably Google it right quickly.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I wonder if it's tied to like the same type of formula that's tied to the salary cap, where it's some kind of you know how much revenue we bring in is that goes to the draft.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: For sure, for sure it is.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Do do I think that's gonna be the percentage that probably made the most sense and was the most equitable?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the players, I think the players probably lost out on that, probably lost out on that as well.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the thing about this is always interesting is and we'll see it this week with the draft, it's like uh Alabama quarterback, Tyler Smith.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Ty Simpson.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ty Simpson.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on six hours of sleep today.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not six, I'm sorry.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on that's over three days.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm working on three hours of sleep.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who wear whoop, my whoop score recovery was 15% this morning.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: So so okay, we we should talk about the whoop.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: You actually pay the subscription fee for a whoop.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a judgmental question.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um G Jacques, do you pay a subscription fee for the whoop?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you do, but see, I think you pay it one time.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: You don't, you pay it monthly.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't pay anything monthly.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I would check your I would check your credit card.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sure because I don't pay anything monthly, but I think I pay it yearly.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am a um I've also got a Fitbit.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a physical data person, so I like data, I like to know, and uh the Whoop gives me better data than Fitbit gives me, but it's not a watch, which I had a Fitbit.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, now Fitbit is coming out with its own version of Whoop or a identical Whoop product, and so did so did Polar.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, once they start, everybody's got to do their own copycat thing.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, but they're all without subscriptions.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll see what we'll see what their data, what their data looks like and how accurate it is.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we'll go from then we'll go to see if if I if I continue to subscribe or not.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: But everything in America is about a subscription now, so right.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I and I don't mind paying a subscription if I feel like I'm getting my money's worth of a subscription.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's total, that's totally fair.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'll get rid of a subscription in a minute if I feel like, yeah, I don't like you anymore.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I had the I had the whoop for a while.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so now the truth comes out.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and I thought it was no different than any other tracker that I've ever had.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, I now own a watch.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's called uh the brand is called Chorus, C-O-R-U S.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's I think it's excellent.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it does it does what I needed to do.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very accurate.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, I like it.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know the beauty of it?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't cost me doesn't cost me anything any month.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Every month.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see, I like uh I'm all into technology.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So now see this is what happened with your live podcast.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Send me that information because I have no brand loyalty.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll switch, swap, I like what I like until something better comes along.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Same way, same way.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like I like the Fitbit better than I like Samsung's Galaxy and all these other things, because I also don't like to learn something new once I know how to work something.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but for the right thing, I'll switch in a heartbeat and won't take anything in the back.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have no loyalty.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the big guy.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: So so I'm looking, I'm gonna look at the Fitbit clone to Whoop when it comes out.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and you know, Steph, Steph Curry, I think, has been the big uh advertising uh person behind the new the new Fitbit version of the Fitbits clone of the Whoop.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll take I'm gonna take a look at that when it comes out.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's supposed to come out any any month now.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I like the way you turn that into a sports conversation.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: See, because uh there's some there's some tennis star who's all in the whoop.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was talking about it at the uh whatever big tennis tournament there was recently.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't see that.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's got it's it's got a lot of fans.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's got a lot of people very for precisely the reason that you say, which is that yes, it's it's expensive, but uh many people believe that the data is much better.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, it is because I know what I know I know that it's more accurate than the uh than the Fitbit data.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I know because I got two I literally got uh because I'm working on this book project, I literally got two hours and 45 minutes of sleep last night.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the whoop is like, yeah, your body sucks because you're tired.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the Fitbit is like, hey, brother, that was the greatest three hours ever.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's uh uh mine mine basically says when I have bad sleep, it says horror, and then it says sleep better, you know, something like very direct.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if you had to look at one piece of information, one piece of data from your whoop, and you you you could only what's the first piece of data that you look at?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I guess sleep it probably is first, because you look at I'm a sleep dude.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: But what is what is another piece of data that you say I I really I really look at this and and and uh this is an important piece of data for me.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um the workout stuff, um the different levels of my workout.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Sort of the different the different intensity levels, yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes I think I'm working at hard and I go, Oh, perhaps I had more to give.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes I like to go, wow, that felt like a good one.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I go, oh, okay, it agreed.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, so I I like that because it keeps me from lying to myself.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's I always look at my my number one piece of thing, data that I always look at is my resting heart rate.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh what is your resting heart rate?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at my my data this morning, uh, it was 53.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, which is pretty good.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's uh that's damn good.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I thought you would judge me on that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what I look at most.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then why would you think I would judge you on that?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because you judge me on everything, you know.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I like the resting heart rate because it gives you some degree about what kind of cardiovascular shape you're in.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly why I look at it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so mine has been hovering at about uh 56.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we're we're about about the same.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's here's what happened.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when you want to be humbled, I don't know if that works for you, but I'm serious.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I did this, I was there, I was there when it happened about a year ago.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, for some reason, I I had to accompany my son to his physical.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe he just needed a ride or something.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just sitting there, and it was a basic physical, like they were doing it on, I don't know, somewhere out in the open.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was not a big deal.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: That dude's resting heart rate was like 39.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's that is like a uh that's a that's an elite level athlete heart rate.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is this?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I thought I was gonna have something to shoot for.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not shooting for that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, so I bet I bet your son's uh resting heart rate is about the same.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's 41 or it's something like that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's if you really want to get if you really want to get depressed about your physical or your cardio, do you look do you know what heart rate variability is?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just know it, but I don't know what it means.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: So heart rate variability, it's it's the it's the uh difference.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: So your heart may beat, you know, 60 times a minute, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the interval between each beat is different.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's the the time between each beat is different.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like a metronome.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have greater heart rate variability, it's often a sign that you know you're more physically fit.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, but as you age, your heart rate variability plunges, you know.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: So my heart rate variability for my age is pretty good.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's it hovers in like the high 50s and low 60s, which is pretty good.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but my son's my son who has a whoop or used to have a whoop, I think he got rid of it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: No, he's I think he still has it, but in any case, his heart, his heart rate variability was like, he's like, oh, it dipped low today.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was like 120, you know.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like okay.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: But that's that's where you can really see a drop off.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: But during that, not not to bore anybody who's listening, but but during COVID, uh I was I ran all the time.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: All I could all I did was run, you know, because I decided I had nothing else to do, so I ran all the time.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: My resting heart rate during COVID was in the high 40s.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, which was great.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I stopped running and I started to, you know, lead my normal slothful life, my resting heart rate like bumped up into the mid-60s, you know.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's it's it's it's amazing.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I always look at that.
• 24:01
  unknown: All right.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Very exciting stuff.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder what Kyler Murray's resting heart rate is.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's it, I I would, you know, most of the elite athletes.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I you know who I wonder what Michael Phelps's resting heart rate is.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, it's probably 30.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, probably, probably two, you know.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh bottom line for me, man, when it comes to the rookie wage scale, is um uh I'd like to see it tied a little more to the salary cap and be a little more flexible, but I understand that management is always going to trump whatever I would like to do.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Bottom line for me, I think there's probably a solution to it that will work for both sides, but chances are that won't happen.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And whatever solution or whatever agreement is made will certainly flavor favor the owners and not the players.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most interesting story I've seen in a while has come out of Portland.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a new owner, um, or relatively new.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: He owns the Carolina of uh the hurricanes, yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they've been really good, very successful.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he showed up, man, and um he started it's uh I forget his first name, his last name is Dundan.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thomas Dundan.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Dundan.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And dude, he is cutting back stuff, man.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the kicker for me was everybody's got to check out the hotel by 12:30.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't have any fees.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't give the team of Seuss a room to work.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: No two-way players are going to the playoff games, and like here's the deal I'm offer cutting costs and running an efficient organization.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll give you a real quick example of this.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that means if you're an organization, it just means you cut out all the all the true waste and you have good record keeping.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here's and the Cowboys, dude, a friend of mine was uh the Cowboys did something at the Super Bowl, they had some event at the Super Bowl, and they had some stuff.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I forget the whole thing, but the woman there said, Hey, do you want to just send this back home?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Talking to one of the beat writers.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Yeah, okay, fine, send it back home.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: He got a call from the Cowboys like a month ago that said, Hey, uh, we got a charge for$60 for a FedEx from the Super Bowl.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, I thought she was gonna put it on my card.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know she was she was gonna charge the company.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh, it's not a big deal.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how do you want to send you?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do you want to settle it?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And my point was the Cowboys are literally a billion-dollar organization.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: They saw a$60 charge that looked out of whack, and somebody was on it like, this is not our$60 charge.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what, Jacques?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's why they are a$60, that's why they are a billion-dollar organization.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But they're as lavish as it comes.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're not, you know, they're not being cheap.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're being efficient.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that's the difference between what Thomas Dumdum is doing and um, you know, what the Cowboys do.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great, I I you you pointed that out to me earlier today, uh, the the Dundan story.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And he there's always been rumors about him.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: But Jason Quick and the Athletic has a great article on it, if anybody wants to wants to read it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think the the most enlightening part of that is they have an interim coach, Tiago Splitter.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: He replaced Chauncey Billups, who has been implicated in a uh in a gambling scandal.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and Tiago Splitter's on an interim basis.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Dundan is not only is he talking to college and professional coaches, according to the Quick's article, but the salary that he's offering for uh the head coach of the Portland Trailblazers is a million dollars a year.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the average NBA coach probably makes like five or six million dollars.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was going after uh Malone, who just went to uh North Carolina.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was making about eight and a half million dollars coaching in the NBA.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: North Carolina, I believe, hired him for about seven and a half.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Portland offered him four and a half.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like well, so if you're so the look, that's a very interesting point.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a coach, a football or a basketball coach now, do you go to college or do you go to the pros?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think the money is I think the money could be higher in some cases.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: The top jobs in college are going to be higher money.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but in general, if it were me, I always go to the best situation.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, meaning I'll take a little, I mean, because I'll relative.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're going to you're going to be well compensated.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I would always take a little bit less, meaning at that number 500 to a million less for a better situation.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a coach, ultimately, unless you're Shosevsky or somebody, you're hired to be fired.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're only going to be there, you know, four to six years before you find another gig, they fire you, whatever.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would always go to the best situation to win.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: The best situation to win is where you would go.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: I that's that's an interesting take.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: I would I would go to a situation where you'll be shocked to hear this, where I had the most control and impact.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's often going to be in a college program and not in a professional program, just because of the nature of the the nature of the BC.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's what I would do.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have impact and control, and you think you're good, you're ultimately gonna make more money.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what that's that that's that's how I would look at it.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: But but your point is your point is well taken because it's like any quarterback, you can be a great quarterback if you go to a crappy situation, you're you're probably not gonna excel.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when you talk about the best situation to win, control is often in it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um you gotta be able to have control enough to do what it is you need to do, whatever that is.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, something my dad told me when I was still in college, uh young in college, uh like a sophomore.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: We were all we we stood around and had these conversations all the time.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Don't ever chase money, ever.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, just do what you're supposed to do, do it at the highest level, and you'll the money will find you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: You never have to chase money.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I kind of live by that.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um in all the jobs I've had, they've been cool, but uh, you know, I take less money for a better situation.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like if you're covering a beat, I wanted to I'll take less money if I can go to the Super Bowl and I can go to the senior bowl and I go to the combine because the less money doing that, the money that we spent doing that will allow me to do a better job.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And either you're gonna pay me or somebody else is gonna pay me because my work is gonna be better because I went to all these different things.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's another form of just you, you're you're betting on yourself, and and to bet on yourself, you want to put yourself in the best position to succeed.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's and I think that's absolutely fundamentally sound advice.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree, you chase, you know, you chase chasing money doesn't mean anything.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's chasing, you don't really chase anything.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: You just you are I think your dad's advice is 100% what I tell my kids, which is just work hard, out one thing, do what you can do with that's in your control.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can outwork people, and you can work, you know, work smarter.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, if you believe in yourself or if you're if you're good at what you're doing, the money will follow.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that I I completely believe that.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Flip that to Portland.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you're Portland, and you're dealing with a bunch.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: The NBA teams are pampered superstars.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: The Rich Carlton?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's I mean, it's all right.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we stay in better.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I'm saying is you can't be a cheap NBA owner because you won't players won't go won't come there.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, somebody's going to come there to fill out the roster.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather be in the NBA than that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: But given a choice, they'll never pick your spot because um they don't want to live like that, and they're not used to that.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not it's not the the NBA way.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: The NBA is a way of extravagance, not a way of frugality.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, are you saying they're dangerously close to losing Scoot Henderson?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Scoot Henderson scored 31 points.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how, but he was uh uh he's yeah, uh pretty pretty amazing.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: But no, but but you mean if I'm a free agent, yeah, I'm not gonna consider that because of the situation, kind of your point, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you know, I don't want to deal with that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, you know, again, NBA is about pampered superstars more than any other league to me.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so pampered superstars aren't going for that, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're just not, and so you know, so you're not you're not even putting out the best product you can because of uh these silly things.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And again, hockey's got a different mindset.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hockey is a mindset, it's all about grinders and and we work hard and we play this form of passion and we love it, and uh so you can do that in hockey.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Again, those guys grew up in juniors living in somebody's back room, you know, away from home at 17.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they're used to that kind of frugal lifestyle, so to speak.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like the top hockey players make what,$12 million a year, which again, me and you will take it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: But at the professional level, you know, baseball players are making$35,$40 million a year, basketball players making$50, football players are making$50 now.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: So$12 million doesn't really seem like it's that big a deal, relatively speaking.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, you can do that with the Carolina uh hurricanes.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do that and be successful, I think, long term with an NBA team.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think of the Blazers?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Did you watch the game last night at all?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because I did.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, let me let me be let me be fully transparent with you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I uh because again, I've been working on this book, and so I had the game on, and I said, the Spurs are playing the Blazers, and I literally said to myself, self, how did the Blazers get to the playoffs?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: I thought they sucked, and so I picked up my phone and I called up the NBA standings.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: I go, the Blazers were 42 and 40.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now let me explain this to y'all.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I'm a sports guy, uh, and I'll be able to tell you about this book in a minute.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've literally been working on this book for about a year, nonstop.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've been working on it for a couple years, but the last year has been intensified, and the last six months have been intensified over the previous six months intensified.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if it ain't about this book, I really don't know what's going on very much.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody asked me at the gym this morning, they go, Hey, are you excited about tomorrow?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I go, What's tomorrow?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: The draft.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, so I've not paying much attention to the Blazers.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I did look to see what Scoot Henderson was doing because I knew he was a big deal a couple years ago when they drafted him.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It seemed like he had underachieved some, but it seemed like he had a uh what I would call a solid season, like 14 and a half points, and that'll get you 25 million dollars a year.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he had he had a very strong uh latter part of the season.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he's he's he's just an unusual player to watch.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know if you ever watch him play, because you he he's he's both extremely and incredibly like kind of fast and athletic, and at the same time appears to me to be slightly uncoordinated.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's this it's this and you watch him play, uh, and and I just I'm always if if he sh if he made a move and you know got to the basket, blew by three players and got to the basket and shot a layup over the backboard, that wouldn't surprise me.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he's that kind of player.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't quite know, uh, you just don't quite know what you're gonna get.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: But he's uh what what a what an explosive player he can be, my you know, he's he's he's really good, but that's a really unusual team.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't I was wondering, you know, Portland, what do you think Damian Lillard is thinking right now?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was with Paul Allen, who owned it for years, he was the face of the franchise for a year for years.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: He comes back this year, he doesn't play, it's a new owner.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think Damian Lillard's thinking?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's thinking, well, I guess they're paying me, so I that that's good.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that's a good question.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think his situation is different because he is the face of the Blazers, and so you know, uh, we were talking about this at the gym this this morning.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: About some there's something to be said, like I don't know that Damon Liv Dame Lillard has like national fame.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people would recognize him if he was walking down the streets of Manhattan, but a lot of people might not.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he's got local fame, and you can do a lot with local fame if if you want to.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, he can be the man in in Portland and do whatever and do whatever he wants to do and have all kinds of business opportunities and everything.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so to him to me, I don't think uh Thomas Dum Dum's things have any effect on him because um he's he's that guy in Portland.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it's it's you know, Thomas Dundan made his money in subprime subprime auto loans.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's where he made that's where he made his big money.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe he's he's figuring out and he's saying, hey, subprime made me money before.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be I'll be the equivalent of subprime in the NBA.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Nah, okay.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, it's not gonna work.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I look forward to we're to reading more stories about Thomas Dum Dum.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that I'm never going to stop saying that.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh you know what the Blazers do.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish the players luck.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's probably got them on the cheese and crackers per diem now.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's a good thing.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some of these things are collectively bargained.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because can you imagine if it weren't?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: You guys don't need$150 a day to eat.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a$20 gift card to McDonald's for breakfast and lunch, and you're on your own for dinner.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: That that's probably what exactly what would happen.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's the bottom line for you on the uh Thomas Dumdum?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is going to be extremely frustrated when he realizes you can't treat NBA players like this.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Bottom line for me is he might develop a lot of talent there.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna stay.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, no way, no way.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh next it's time for your favorite topic.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Ohio State Buckeyes.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you were there this weekend, and you say there's a quarterback controversy brewing.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you just making that up?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: What I said, what I said was I think there's gonna be a quarterback controversy this year uh in Columbus.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because, one, I think you got two pretty good quarterbacks, is what it looks like.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And two, I think Ohio State's probably gonna lose a couple of games.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: And because when Ohio State loses a couple of games, the sky's gonna fall, people are gonna lose their minds, and they're gonna say, we got to change a quarterback.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a very that's a very real possibility this year.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think you know, every program revolves around a quarterback.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can't win if you got a quarterback that can't play.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Julian Stane is really good.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the question The question is, can he raise and elevate his game and play even better?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because um it the game's about the quarterback.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a heck of a first year.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is a first time starting.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: He hadn't started before, so he had a heck of a freshman.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he wasn't a freshman, he had a heck of a sophomore year as a player.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: But in anything, you got to improve and you got to progress.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And can he do what it takes to help them win some of those games where they can um, you know, because that's what it is at Ohio State.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you go there.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hold on, sorry, sorry to interrupt you.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Who's gonna be a better quarterback in 2026?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Julian Saiyan or Bryce Underwood?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Who do you think?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Julian Saiyan.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: You do?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have uh I don't until I see it, I don't believe it.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning Bryce Underwood looks like any other number of really big, fast, strong athletic athletes that can't play quarterback.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because playing quarterback is about the whole thing.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's about situational football, it's about being smart, it's about knowing you know when to stay in the pocket, when to run.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's about all these things in addition to are you big, strong, fast, and can throw it a thousand miles.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um now, maybe Kyle Whittingham, uh, who I think is a really good coach, can reel him in and uh take advantage of it.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I think he's gonna get, I mean, it's like it reminds me of like uh they're they're very no well that's he doesn't at all.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I was gonna say he's the complete opposite player, but it reminds me of when uh Alex Smith was a washout and then he got good coaching, and all of a sudden Alex Smith was good.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think the same thing's gonna happen with Bryce Underwood.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: The difference is, you know, Bryce Underwood, unlike Alex Smith, is probably a better athlete than me, you know.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's that's the big difference.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I saw some flashes, but I didn't see now again, he was a true freshman.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing you can never know, and we won't know until you see it uh this year.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes with Julian saying, it goes for uh Bryce Underwood, any of those guys.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I sound old school now.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: You never will you never know what those dudes' work ethic is, you just don't know.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't say, but you'll tell you can tell when the season starts whether they put in some work or a whole lot of work.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um friend of mine was mentoring a uh a guy covering a covering a football beat, and I said, dude, you got and he was frustrated a little bit.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I said, dude, you got because he's an older guy, the other guy's you know five, six years out of college.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you got to take him to lunch, man, and ask him a simple question.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: What is it, what is it that you're trying to do?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are you trying to be average?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to be good, you trying to be great.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no there's no judgment on any answer that you give, but each answer requires a different level of commitment.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to know because if you're trying to be great, I'll treat you like you're trying to be great.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're trying to be average, which is okay, because most people are average, then I'll quit treating you like I thought you wanted to be great, and then I'll quit being frustrated.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the fair question.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so we won't know whether saying or whether Underwood, those guys have a desire to be good or average, because they all say they want to be great, but are you willing to do whatever it takes to be great?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's that and that's that was the knock, whether it's warranted or not.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: That was a knock on Kyler Murray, you know, and at Arizona.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but and so well, I mean, it is if they got to put in your contract, uh, where you study X amount of hours and not play video games, then you don't have a desire to be great.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: You might have a desire to be good, or you might be a hype.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it's no, I don't judge people if they don't want to be great, because being great requires at some level for you to be maniacal.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's your approach, right?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's not necessarily good.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: For other facets of your life.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to be great.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to know what you want so I can I can I can put you on the proper path.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think that's I think that's totally fair.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, so Ohio State had its spring game on Saturday.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: They did.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: They did.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was you probably weren't watching.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Blazers were on at the same time.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: But Ohio State had its spring game on Saturday.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sayon played as did Tavin St.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Clair.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think his first name is Tavin.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: It might be Tavian, but but forgive me if I pronounce it wrong.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: But uh and I thought, you know, it by all accounts I didn't see it, but uh both quarterbacks apparently both look both look pretty good.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I saw the uh Chris Henry, a freshman receiver.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he scored, he looked good.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I, you know, I think there's I think there's some positive about it.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: But my my weekend in Columbus, or my more than that, my four or five days in Columbus were um what I noticed is that I've never seen more people wearing Ohio State shirts, hats, coats, paraphernalia, whatever it was, than I've ever seen in my lifetime.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, granted, there's obviously gonna be a lot more people in Columbus that wear it, but still the percentage was was astonishing to me.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was especially when I was in the airport.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I I kind of I chalked that up to I wonder if lots of people were traveling to watch the spring game.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't think so?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I like traveling to watch the spring game.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: It may be the only way that they can get into Ohio Stadium in a in a cost-effective way.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that I think that they might have.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was it was it was remarkable the percentage of people.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had never thought about that.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Although I did see uh Jeremiah Smith scoring a long touchdown run, and I did see Chris Henry's touchdown.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: You can't run the ball, you're going to have problems.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would have rather seen some running back break free for eight yards.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I would want to see, and apparently, I didn't see it.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently, the Saiyan is making a uh an effort to show that he can actually be mobile and that he can actually run.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, if that's a good thing with saying like Saiyan to me, to the naked eye, looked like he weighed about 170 pounds last year.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like if he could get up to like 185, that shows you he's trying to get where he's trying to go.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's like it's like Mendoza, who when he did his workout, I thought Mendoza looked skinny, you know, against you know Ohio State and against some of the bigger programs.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: But in his workout, it looked like he put on you know a ton of weight, too, which is which is a good sign.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm a I'm a Mendoza skeptic.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I hope I'm wrong, but I'm a Mendoza skeptic.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: But he does all the right things, you know, notionally.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I um I'm gonna say this.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: I say this about every quarterback, it's not original.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's all about the the coach and the organization.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: If they put it around him and they got a new coach, which is always tricky, um, because you don't know if this guy's good or not.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if they put some weapons around him and gets good coaching, he's got a shot.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: If not, he has no chance.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can yeah, you can and you can say that about almost every quarterback.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Look at the difference between Caleb Williams uh last season, you know, two seasons ago versus last season.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's amazing the difference.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think a lot, I think a lot of that, I mean, a lot of that is definitely coaching.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Troy is the biggest example in Dallas.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Two years with David Schuler.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I guess he can play.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen a whole lot.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: North Turner shows up with the exact same cast of characters, and they're winning Super Bowls and doing all these great things and wind up in Hall of Fame.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Coaching, it matters.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's my bottom line on Ohio State.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's let's hope they have uh let's hope Arthur Smith uh coaches and it and it matters.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's depressing.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I didn't like I didn't like Matt Patricia either.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't either.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't either prove me wrong.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he did it.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: Matt Patricia didn't prove you entirely wrong.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: The defense, when when the defense faced two drives that could have won this, won both games for them, they didn't show up.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't they didn't get it done.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: On that depressing note, we'll see you next week.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, on that on that, well, we'll we'll see you next week, and we'll find out how many oh we we didn't even ask a question.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: How many Ohio State players are going to go in the top 10 of the draft?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Top ten of the draft.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the over and under should be three and a half.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, it should be two and a half, should be the over and under.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think over-under is I think the let's see.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Carnell, Carnell Tate, Sonny Styles, Arvell Reese, Caleb Downs.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it should be three and a half.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: You think the over-under is three and a half?
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: We take the over or the under.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Caleb Downs is a wild card.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Will he fall?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he will.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's too good a player.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd take the uh I'd say over.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I take the over for sure.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you next week with more insight on sports and money on this little ditty that we do.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: All right, everybody, we'll see you next week.