Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #315: Paris Vaughan-Lenoir Rhyne University

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#315: Paris Vaughan-Lenoir Rhyne University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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You're listening to the Gil Athletics Connections podcast
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with host Mike Cunningham. Track and field world UNL tuned
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in to our humble servant Mike Cunningham for another
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extraordinary message for Gil. Athletics connections here.
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We go go back on the Guild athletics connection podcast.
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So cool just to get a kick every time that you guys and gals
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press play every single week. And really now every single day,
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as we've added from Tuesday through Sunday, the Guild 1918
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project, 10 minute to 30 minute episodes talking about kind of
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the Ted talks of track and field podcast, right?
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So XS and OS culture, recruiting, we've had a bunch of
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great topics and a bunch of great people contributing to
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that and I'm really, really grateful for that.
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And today it's Monday, so it is our long form man.
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It's the the OG, the Gil connections podcast that started
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it all. And I'm pumped for this one man,
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This guy, he has been begging, knocking.
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I mean, it's it's a little embarrassing actually, but I'm
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glad he's here. And of course, I'm I'm kidding
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on all fronts there. Help me welcome the head coach,
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the interim head coach, because we're going to talk about that
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from Lenore Ryan, the wise, the wonderful Mr. Paris von Paris.
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How are you, Sir? I'm doing good.
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How about yourself? Oh man, you know, every time
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someone asked me that question, the first thing I tell was like,
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I do this for a living. So I'm doing pretty good, my
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friend, pretty good. There's not a bad day in old
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Mike Cunningham's life, let me tell you that.
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OK? I always have like initial like
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2-3 questions before we actually hop into your actual journey,
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which I'm super excited to learn.
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My first question is, OK, Lenore Ryan, I always like to know
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people's mascots. And I should know because I tell
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you what, I have been blessed to go to the D2 national
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championship meets for the last couple years and I have seen
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plenty of Lenoir Ryan kids and plenty of Lenoir Ryan kids
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winning. So I should know the mascot, but
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I don't. And I can't even, I don't know.
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I'm going to guess like something pretty common in the
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sense of like a Wildcat or something.
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What, what, what is? I'm?
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I'm not close as a Wildcat, I don't think.
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No, you're not close at all. I mean, I guess you somewhat,
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but not a cat. So we're the bears, so.
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I was going to go with some kind of like Falcon, like, you know,
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fast because I was just thinking that your kids are always fast.
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I was like some kind of like, you know, hunting Falcon or
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something. The bears.
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You are in North Carolina, right?
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Yep. Yeah, so there are bears in
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North Carolina, so that tracks. Oh yeah, yeah.
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It always cracks me up when someone has a mascot and it's
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like there's no bears in, you know, wherever they are, like
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Florida. Like, what are you?
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There's probably bears in Florida.
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I don't know. OK, my next question I just
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immediately have to have an answer to your name is Paris
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Vaughn. I love that because I love
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unique name. There are enough Mikes, Dave's
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and Steves in the world, right? Where does like, how did you get
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named Paris? Man I love this.
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Well, I always ask my mom that question and she she always
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laughs and doesn't want to answer the question, you know?
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So it's it's like, I think like, did you think I was a girl at
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first? But I'm not the child that she
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thought was a girl. My older brother is the child
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that she thought was a girl. But I think she just wanted to
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go to Paris. Like that was her dream Logan,
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the place that she wanted to go. And she's never been.
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So I mean, my dad wasn't able to name me.
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So she took that and said, and my dad wanted to name me
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something totally different. But yeah, she just said, hey,
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I'm going to name him Paris. And he was like, OK.
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Cool. Maybe maybe she, you know, she
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wants to tell the story that you were conceived in Paris, France,
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but actually you were conceived in like Paris, TX.
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Or, you know, there's a Paris, IL and it's just not, you know,
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it's all spelled the same, but I'm not sure Paris, IL and
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Paris, France all kind of try to stay in there.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Well, I love it, man. Like I said, I love.
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We, we just had one of our team mates here who overseas our
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volleyball literally Friday night you just had a little baby
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girl named Etta Faith. Etta Faith.
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And I was like, I was like, I love that.
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Like, that's so cool, man. That's, you know, my wife's name
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is Amy. I love you Amy.
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But you know, there's like a million Amy's, right?
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But something tells me there's only going to be 1 Etta in
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school when she's growing up. I bet you you had to be the only
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Paris. Funny enough, when I was in high
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school, there was there's five of us.
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Shut up. No way.
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There's four of us, so and and we're, we're still close to
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today. So funny enough.
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In high school, there were three other dudes named Paris.
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There were two other dudes named Paris, and there was a girl
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named Paris and there was somebody whose locker was right
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behind mine and her name was Karis with AKI.
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Like I'm trying to think, I don't think I've ever met I'm,
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you know, nearly 48 something, right?
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I don't think I've ever met a Paris before.
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And you had three in your high school.
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Did you go to like some mega high school or like 4000 people
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in your graduating class or something?
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Yeah, I think we were close to 1000, but.
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Weren't. Yeah, it was a big, it was a big
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school. But yeah, it wasn't, it was
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weird. You know, whenever I found out,
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you know, everybody else, you know, the other people whose
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name Paris. I mean, there was me, there was
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a guy that played basketball. There's a guy that he's in the
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fashion. And the girl, she was a
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cheerleader. I ran track and played football.
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And then Karis, the one whose locker was behind mine, she
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cheered. So it was very weird.
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But we always said our sport and our name.
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Yeah. Oh, yeah.
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Yeah. Track pair.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's mixed.
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Yeah, You have to, Yeah. I, I can't, you know, when when
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I meet another Mike, there's like some kind of weird instant,
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you know, connection. And, you know, I meet a lot of
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mics, obviously, right. I can't imagine 2 Paris's Paris
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I Paris's meeting and then a third one.
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And then, I mean, that's in high school.
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Not like, oh, my whole life I've met three other people, you
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know, in high school. That's cool, man.
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I love that. I didn't even I didn't even
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mention in college my RA. His name is Paris.
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What now you got me thinking like, do I actually know other
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Paris's? And I just, I'm not thinking
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right. I, I honestly, I don't like the
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only other Paris I can even think of like to name would be
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like Paris Hilton, right? That that's the only, I cannot
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think of a single like was there.
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I'm trying to think like there had to be like a famous, you
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know, NBA or football player and I can't, I can't think of
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anybody. Yeah, that's crazy, dude.
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I'll probably meet another mic before I, you know, go home here
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in a couple of so common. So every Thanks.
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Thanks, mom. You can name me something cool,
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man, like Etta. That's cool.
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That's cool. All right, man.
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Well, we kind of started getting into it there a little bit.
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Let's go ahead and officially get into it.
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Let's hear your journey. You know Paris assuming well,
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not assuming you already told us the spoiler alert, you were a
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track athlete. So my first question is kind of
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the same for everybody. Where does track and field start
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for you? Where?
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Where does that begin? So, I mean, all my life, my SO,
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my dad was the track guy. You know, he went to Miami,
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Ohio. I am not going to try to save
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what year he graduated, but I know it was a while ago.
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It was a long, long time ago, but he went to Miami, Ohio, He's
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from Virginia. He never talked to any of us,
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like my siblings about track. That was never something he
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brought up. It was always football,
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basketball, and that was really it.
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You know, we didn't talk about baseball, we didn't talk about
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soccer. It's just really what you kind
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of grew up into. And football and basketball was
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what we did. I want to say it was middle
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school that I got into track. My little sister was doing it.
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And, you know, somebody mentions like, oh, yeah, you're fast, you
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should run track. I was like, I don't even know
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what that is. I'm not.
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You were not going to see me just run for fun, you know, And
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I was, I was playing basketball at the time.
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So that was the big thing. And then my older brother was
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running in high school. So I was like, I'm not going to
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let them just like one up me. And do you know, he played
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football, basketball and run track, you know, and I'm just
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playing football and basketball, you know, I'm going to get out
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there and do it too. So I got out, I think I was in
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7th grade, 7th, 8th grade, one or two.
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I forgive exactly which one. But you know, while I'm out
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there, I wanted to be a sprinter.
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My coaches did not put me into sprints.
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They actually, and I, and I will forever say this is distance.
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And even though it's really, you know, mid distance and somewhat
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of a long Sprint, I ran the 8 and the 15.
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You know, those are the events that I was put into.
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You know, I ran for a track club called New Wave Track Club in,
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in Maryland. And when I got out there, you
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know, I'm just thinking, oh, maybe a sprinter, I'm gonna be a
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sprinter. And then they just had me
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running, just running, just running long times.
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I'm like why am I doing this? But you stuck with it because
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it's one thing like you go out and say, hey, I'm going to
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Sprint 'cause I don't want to run long distance.
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So yeah, yeah, you're going to run at least 2 laps and you're
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going to run 4 laps. You could have quit.
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I mean, you were playing other sports.
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What, what made you kind of still stick with it?
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So I just, I mean, ever since I've been in sports, like my, my
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sister's father, so I just called him my uncle, you know,
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he always told us like the boys like, hey, we're not going to
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quit any sports or anything. Like you start something, finish
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it. So I was like, all right, cool.
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If I'm starting, I'm gonna finish it.
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My dad didn't care. He was like, if you don't want
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to do it no more, you ain't got to.
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And, and he was the track guy and.
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He was the track guy. Interesting.
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OK. So the thing that my dad was the
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track guy, nobody else in my family, I mean, outside of my
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little sister, my older brother, you know, we're into track.
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But my dad was like, if you don't want to do it, you don't
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have to. So I'm I'm doing this thing and
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I'm like, I'm tired of this, you know, you know, just like from
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whole was like, I'm tired of this Grandpa.
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Yeah, I was, I was saying that I was like, oh, I'm tired of this.
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I don't want to do this all the time.
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And then it just, you know, I just kind of grew into it.
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I think my very first year I actually qualified for USATF
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Nationals in the Brass Omaha, NE in the 1500.
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I don't know how, I don't know why, but it was I qualified for
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the 1500 and then I kind of started to like it a little bit
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more. I met a lot of people, you know,
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and I was like, Oh no, cool. But you know, I'm my
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personality, you know, growing up and I mean, I guess kind of
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still today, I'm a extroverted introvert.
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So like I can talk to people, but I'm OK with being by myself.
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And that was how I was on track, you know, within track.
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I met a lot of people and I was like, all right, I can talk to
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y'all, but at the end of the day, I don't have to see you
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ever again and I'm OK with it. You know, that's interesting.
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We actually have, you know, after 300 episodes, I, I, I
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still don't think we brought up every topic, but I do remember
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we have talked about this before.
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This was kind of a revelation for me.
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So my wife would very similar to what you just expressed there.
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She would call me the most extroverted in introvert she's
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ever met. The same thing like, you know,
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and you've seen me like at convention and me, it's like,
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you know, I'm, I'm I'm all about the people, right, But I very
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much can just be in my house and not see anybody for the weekend.
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I'm good with that, right? And, and I was reading a book
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and I really wish I could remember what book it was
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because it always, I kind of struggle with that a little bit
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because it was like, Oh, I'm, you know, I am extroverted.
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So why am I not always extroverted?
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You know, what, like it almost was like, like introversion was
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a a shame. Like I can't be, I can't be
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introverted. I'm, I'm the, I'm the podcast
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guy, I'm the social media guy, you know, and so I was reading
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this book and it brought up a term new to me.
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I'm sure it's been around forever called ambivert ambi
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vert. And what it is is that, and this
11:08
was kind of, I don't want to say life changing, but you know,
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startling that many things in life, including this, are not
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light switches which are on or off like, oh, you're
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extroverted, Oh, you're introverted.
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You know, you know, it's actually kind of like that
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slider light, right? And so a lot of people, most
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people are not extreme extroverts or extreme
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introverts. They're somewhere on that scale.
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And so, you know, you think about like 50%, you'd be 50%
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extroverted, 50% introverted. So it just really kind of shaped
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my thinking about things like like, oh, OK, like, yeah, I see
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why it like there are times where absolutely I'm the, I'm
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the work in the crowd guy. And then there are the times
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where I'm like, man, I'm, it's 9:00 y'all have fun with the
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rest of the social. I'm going back to the hotel
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room. I'll see y'all tomorrow at the
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track meet or something. You know, so it really, so it
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was interesting that you could kind of see that in yourself at
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an early age. I, I, I couldn't, I didn't learn
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that until like probably 8 years ago, you know, I was 40 years
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old. So that's interesting.
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You kind of had that self-awareness that that early.
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Yeah, it and it's just something like, I mean, I guess because I
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have AI don't know, I whenever I talk to my dad about it, because
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my dad's similar, you know, he can talk to whoever, but he's
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also not a he can sit by himself.
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Like I used to see it all the time growing up.
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He would, if he's in the house, he's in the house, he's
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chilling, you know, and I'd be like, you ain't going with your
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friends. He's like, see him later, you
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know, and that, and that was just him and I, I mean, I've
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grown up to be the same exact way.
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But yeah, you know, just running.
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I mean, after making that national news, you know, I
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looked at and I was like, this is this is this is cool.
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You know, so that actually was 7th grade.
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So 8th grade year. I was doing it again, doing it
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some more. But I also at the same time, I
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was like, I don't really, I don't, I'm going to do something
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less. I don't want to keep doing this
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800 and 1500, you know, And then my coach just looked at me and
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was like, well, you can try something else.
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There's two things that you can try.
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And the two things that they told me was 1 was steeplechase
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and the other was hurdles. So me looking at steeplechase, I
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was like, that looks fun. And then they told me how long
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it was and I said, ah, gotcha. You you almost got me.
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So I'm going to do the shorter thing.
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So so. They were talking about club
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summer. Yeah, Summit.
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Track, I only know one state that has steeple for high school
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and that's New York. And you didn't grow up in New
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York, so. Yeah.
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OK, OK, OK. So yeah, this.
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Is all summit track? So you're still doing so 8th
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grade as we start going into high school, you're still doing
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football, basketball and track and summer track.
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Yeah, so, well, my, my high, my middle school didn't have a
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track team, you know, So in Maryland, the thing about
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Maryland, they don't have high school, I mean, not high school,
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they don't have middle school football and middle school
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track. We have baseball, soccer,
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softball, basketball. I think that's it.
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But that's also in the public too.
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So so yeah, all summer track. I'm, you know, doing that and
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then, you know, turn around and it's like I would choose the
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choose the hurdles. So 200 hurdles is actually what
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I did. Now I love the 200 hurdles.
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You know, I didn't do the short hurdles.
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I didn't do the high hurdles. I guess you could say didn't do
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those personally, I'll just sell it.
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My foot speed's not there. I could run fast, but that's
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take me a little bit to pick it up.
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So it was the 200 hurdles. I was doing that consistently.
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And then, you know, get to high school and, you know, my brother
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had just graduated probably 2A year before I got there, or two
14:40
years before I got there. And his high school coach
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actually had watched me as I was running summer track, you know,
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for the years he was watching me while I was running.
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And he was like, you know, I'm going to try you in some
14:55
different things. So he put me in 400.
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I went to 300 hurdles, did the 110 hurdles.
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And then I think also that year I might have jumped into doing
15:05
like looking at doing just other things.
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And I, I ended up doing a multi going that summer.
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So during the high school season, my, my freshman year, I
15:15
did a bunch of events and I was just a freshman.
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You know, I was, I was probably 130 lbs going into high school.
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I was probably 5, seven, 130 lbs and I still, I was still in a
15:28
football team, but I was five, 730 lbs.
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So I played receiver and I played safety and I was like,
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you know, I'm going to stick with football because that was
15:38
what I loved. And track was just kind of what
15:40
I did. So I was doing both.
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And then something with my, my, you know, my track coach.
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He was like, you know, and he was a football coach too.
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So he he coached our, you know, I think it was the defensive
15:54
coordinator for varsity. He's like, you know, Paris, you,
15:57
you get in the weight room this summer, you'll, you know, you'll
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be all right. You might shape out to be
16:00
something, you know, something special.
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And I was like, what do you mean?
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Like, are you talking about me like in a bad way?
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And he was like, no, like, this is a positive thing.
16:08
Like just get in the weight room a little bit.
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You know, it's going to help for both football and, you know, and
16:13
track. And I was like, well, I don't
16:15
know how much I'm going to get in the weight room because as
16:17
soon as the school year's over, I'm back in the track.
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And he was like, that's fine, you know, So I'm going to track
16:25
summer track. I had changed the track club
16:29
that I ran for, so I ran with this one club.
16:32
Like I said, that was a new wave.
16:34
And the I don't know what she was to the club, but she had
16:38
left Coach Gwynn. Yeah, I never forget Coach Gwynn
16:41
because she's the one that kind of got me going.
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She started a new club and she wanted my dad to help her start
16:48
it. So, I mean, you know, a lot of
16:51
people would say, like, hell my parents coaching me.
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I don't, I don't know how to handle it.
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My dad was the one that said, I am not going to coach you.
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I'm going to coach the kids. I'm just going to be your
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parent. I'm going to be your dad.
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I'm not going to try to coach you, You know, so that summer he
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is like, you want to do the, you know, you want to do this
17:08
combined event stuff, then let's do it.
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So I was doing the pentathlon, you know, and pentathlon was
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going well for me. You know, I made nationals a
17:17
couple years with that and I was, I was loving it because I
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was like, this is something nice.
17:24
It's different. And it's nice because I get to
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do a lot, doing a lot of things. And, and I don't have ADHD or
17:29
anything, at least I haven't been diagnosed with it.
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But I just, I'm somebody that always has to do a lot of
17:35
different things. You know, I'd rather do a lot
17:37
than do a little and then sit there thinking and bored the
17:40
rest of the day. So me doing the pentathlon, I
17:43
was, I was excited about it. You know, I get to run back and
17:46
forth, do different things. And also I just learned other
17:50
events too. So I think going into my
17:53
sophomore year, I might have learned pole vault.
17:57
So yeah, I had to learn pole vault then because I was pole
17:59
vaulting for the rest of my high school, you know, career and
18:02
it's just a way to get points. So yeah, I, you know, after
18:07
that, you know, going pole vaulting and everything.
18:10
So I kind of just did everything.
18:13
Me doing multi, I was like, OK, I'm going to do this.
18:16
You know, high school, we didn't have it as an event.
18:19
So my coach do all right. I'm going to put you in pole
18:21
vault. I'll put you in one cent
18:22
herders. I'll put you in 300 herders.
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I'll put you in a four by four. OK, you only.
18:26
Got 4 events, did you? I, I like how you talked about
18:29
the multi, the combined events about like you get to do a lot
18:31
of different things and I, I think a lot of kids would be
18:34
more attracted to that. They're just not given the
18:36
opportunity to even know that it's an event, right.
18:39
I mean, to your point, they're used to just doing 4 events.
18:41
They don't know that like, hey, you know, there's actually
18:42
events where you can do one more and it's all one event, you
18:45
know? Yeah, yeah, but did you like
18:47
you? You had to be unique in your
18:50
high school setting, like when you went to other meets, like
18:52
you had to be the only dude, like going from the pole vault
18:56
to the hurdles to the like, you know, not many people are doing
19:00
that in high school. Like, you know, maybe the guys
19:02
doing the hurdles in the 4 by 1 and 4 by 4, you know, but no
19:04
one's throwing a, a long or a, a pole vault in there or anything
19:07
like that. Yeah.
19:09
And that was the, that was the funniest part about it is, you
19:13
know, in PG County, Maryland, it is a, I would say at one point
19:19
of time, you know, when I was in high school, it was the, the
19:22
richest black county in America. So with that being said, there
19:26
was nobody doing pole vault, you know, because everybody,
19:28
everybody was African American. So there's nobody doing pole
19:30
vault. And it was just myself and
19:32
actually my coach's cousin, his little cousin did pole vault.
19:35
So he was somebody that did pole vault because that was all he
19:38
did, pole vaulter through and through.
19:40
He went to Howard pole vaulted for Howard.
19:43
Me, I did pole vault because hey, I'll do the I do the
19:46
multitas in the summer. So it would just be me and him
19:50
pole vaulting and then we get to regionals.
19:52
It's me and him. Then we go to states.
19:54
Now it's like, hey, I'm here. I got here somehow, someway.
20:00
If I could place, I place. If I don't, I don't.
20:02
It is, but it is. You know, I've never practiced
20:04
it. It was one of those events that
20:07
my coach knew nothing about it. He he didn't, he couldn't coach
20:10
me up in it. But we did have another coach at
20:14
the school. That tried to help that tried to
20:16
help me out a little bit because we did have another guy that
20:19
transferred to our high school from another county.
20:22
He was a pole vaulter, but he did the pole vault in the
20:25
hurdles. So you had two guys on the team
20:27
that. Did pole water hurdles?
20:30
And then they kind of took him away from hurdles just because
20:32
there's like, we'll just stick you to pole vault because that's
20:36
the that's your better event. You know, it's like Paris got
20:38
better than you in the hurdles. So we're going to let him stay
20:40
doing that. And you know, our our pole vault
20:45
coach, I would air quote a little bit because he was a
20:48
volleyball coach, you know, and he just came out.
20:51
He knew about track. You know, he came out and helped
20:53
us out coach a coach, coach Alexander, and he just kind of
20:57
got us through it. You know, we probably practice
21:01
well, I practice once a week, a teammate practice probably two
21:04
or three times because that's all he did.
21:07
But it was just it was tough doing it because, you know, my
21:11
coach, the the head coach, coach Carter, coach Fardon Carter,
21:15
what he wanted us to do was, hey, we want to focus on
21:17
running. You know, and funny enough that
21:21
that's what he does, that's what he did for me is hey, I want to
21:23
focus on running. Every one of my pole vaulters,
21:26
I'll tell them, hey, we're going to focus on running.
21:27
We're going to focus on, you know, but going through that, it
21:32
was the, it was amazing because I, again, I was able to see
21:35
everything. I was able to do a bunch of
21:37
different things and just really enjoy it.
21:41
So did you play football, basketball on track all through
21:44
high school? Or did.
21:45
No. Basketball.
21:47
Basketball, kind of it died. Away.
21:50
That died away because I did not get any taller.
21:53
So my my brother, he's a bachelor player.
21:55
He's I think he's probably a 2 inches taller than me.
21:59
Maybe I'm 510 3/4 right now. He's probably, he's not even
22:05
that much taller. I mean, he's he's 511.
22:07
Yeah, he's 511. But he was more skilled at
22:11
basketball, you know, So he was the one that focused on
22:14
basketball only and did football and did track.
22:18
He focused on basketball. So you were football on the
22:20
track, guy? Yeah.
22:21
Did you? I always ask this of every dual
22:24
athlete that we have on the podcast.
22:27
Would you, as you're looking into your senior year, would you
22:30
have considered yourself a track guy who plays football or a
22:33
football guy who runs track? My senior year, I consider
22:37
myself a track guy at football. But before that, maybe that.
22:41
Before that it would stop. Yeah, yeah.
22:43
Before that was a total opposite.
22:44
So what happened senior year where there was at the beginning
22:47
or at the end, what what happened?
22:49
Because because that's really important.
22:50
That's identity, right? That's who, you know, when you
22:53
introduce yourself in high school, he's like, Oh yeah, I
22:55
play football. Oh yeah, I do track too.
22:57
That's the football guy who runs track or, or, you know, your
22:59
senior year, you probably like, Oh yeah, I run track and yeah, I
23:01
play football. Like that's the track guy who
23:03
plays football. What happened senior year that
23:06
turned your identity there? So it was actually junior year.
23:10
So I started getting interest letters and I'd say nothing was
23:13
for football, but nothing was for football.
23:17
Crazy enough. In high school, I was my, I was
23:20
the backup safety to Marcus Allen.
23:23
He went to Penn State, OK. He played for the Steelers.
23:27
So dude, I mean, for me being his backup, I was OK.
23:31
You know, I was like, hey, you know, me and Marcus came in the
23:33
same year. You know, he got bigger.
23:36
Yeah, I'm stronger. I kind of stayed the same.
23:39
Someone had to be his back up. I mean, he got to be an NFL or
23:41
to beat him. So I mean, come on.
23:42
Yeah, Yeah. So.
23:43
You know, I was like, hey, it is what it is.
23:45
And I, I, I rarely focused on the offensive side of the ball,
23:49
even though I like playing receiver.
23:51
I just didn't focus on it that much, you know, leading up to
23:54
my, you know, my senior year, I wasn't focusing on it, but.
23:58
There's a term and you've heard this term before, and it's a
24:00
it's a business consumer term that the market is all the
24:04
customer is always right. And and what it what, what what
24:07
it's been perverted to is that, you know, if you Paris going to
24:10
be and say, hey, Mikey, you should have sold me that pole
24:12
vault pit for a cent because I'm I'm the customer and I'm always
24:15
right. That's what it's been perverted
24:16
to. What it actually is, is that the
24:17
market is always, always right. And what that means is like if
24:20
you sell a product and no one's buying it, the market's telling
24:23
you that it's not. So the market that was right.
24:26
They were like, yeah, Paris, you play football.
24:29
No one's buying it though. Track.
24:31
Track coaches are like, OK, I can buy it, You know what I'm
24:33
saying? The the, the market showed you
24:36
your path, if you will. Yeah.
24:38
Yeah. How'd that feel getting, you
24:40
know, interest in letters and recruitment on the track side?
24:43
It felt, it actually felt great. I mean, I, I was, I was just
24:47
sitting there because I like to be honest with you, I was the
24:50
guy that I didn't really care too much about school.
24:53
You know, I, I, I try to tell people this all the time.
24:55
I mean, I tell my recruits, they want me to be honest.
24:58
I'm like, I'm be honest with you, you know?
24:59
But I tell my athletes not whenever they graduate.
25:02
I'm like, like, we just had graduation Friday and I told him
25:06
I was like, I'm proud of you for graduating because a lot of I
25:09
probably had the same mindset I did coming out of high school.
25:11
I just don't want to go to college.
25:13
It's more for, for the guys, you know, not much of the girls, but
25:16
for the guys, they probably saying the same thing.
25:17
But that was really what it was. I, you know, I, I didn't care
25:20
too much about school, but then when I started getting those
25:23
letters, I was like, oh, wait a second.
25:25
Did you have family that went to college?
25:28
Yeah, So my dad is the one that I'm the first child.
25:33
I'm the first child to graduate from college.
25:35
So my older sister, she went, she went to Community College.
25:39
I don't know if she got her associates.
25:42
My older brother went to college.
25:43
He did not get his associates. And then my younger siblings, my
25:47
little sister went, but she said school is not for my little
25:50
brothers. I know school is not for me.
25:52
So there's not, it's not like none of my family went to
25:55
college and I was the first one who would go on.
25:57
There's some like, okay, we at least try call, yeah, workout.
26:00
It doesn't work out for everybody.
26:01
Nothing works out for everybody, but it's like, oh, yeah, yeah,
26:04
yeah. My dad went and got, went to
26:06
college, my brother and sister, like, so there's some yeah.
26:09
Like, so when you're getting these letters, it's not like
26:11
like you're not getting them and going, yeah, whatever.
26:13
Dude. We don't, I don't go.
26:14
What are you talking about? You know, we go to, I'm trying
26:17
to think how much of the steel mill, but I don't think there's
26:19
steel mills in Maryland. But you know, like we go, we go
26:21
work. That's what we do with our
26:22
family, you know. So there is a little bit like,
26:23
oh, OK, cool. Like maybe these are the
26:25
colleges I go try out. Yeah, so like my dad, he's he
26:29
was, he was looking at everything I was getting.
26:31
He was like, hey, man, this is nice, you know, so he's nudging
26:34
me like you wanted to keep my school down.
26:36
And, you know, I was like, I was like, I guess I could start
26:42
looking. So I start looking at the
26:43
schools. And then I told him I, you know,
26:45
I told my dad this and I had to tell him first before I told my
26:48
mom because, you know, moms, you know, they always, mom's always
26:52
right. I'll just put it that way.
26:53
I'll just put it that that is true.
26:54
Always right. So my dad, he was like, man, I
26:59
don't even want to be in I don't want to be in Maryland.
27:01
You know, I was like, I I I don't I just don't want to be
27:03
here. Like I don't want to be in in
27:04
the state. I was like, what you mean?
27:06
I was like I said, I'm here like all my life.
27:08
But because of track, I've been able to travel and I like being
27:11
every other places. Oh.
27:13
Good. Point so so he was like.
27:15
And all these other national yeah, I love that he's.
27:18
He's talking to me. He's like, so like, what do you
27:21
want to, where do you want to go?
27:22
I said I don't know. And then that's when he
27:24
mentioned to me, oh, you know, I went to, you know, Miami, Ohio,
27:28
you know, so he mentioned it to me.
27:29
I was like, huh, what is that? So I looked up.
27:32
I looked up to Miami and I, you know, EU popped up and I was
27:37
like, you didn't go here. He was like, no, no, no.
27:39
I went to Miami University of Ohio.
27:41
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
27:42
Like what's that I said? Is that like a that like a small
27:45
school? And he was like, no, it's a,
27:48
it's a big school. It's and then he looked it up
27:50
for me and then showed me and I was like, oh, then this is where
27:53
he started to gloat a little bit.
27:54
But he tried to be very humble. But gloat.
27:57
He was like, yeah, man, I was, I was pretty decent up there.
28:00
So what do you mean? Like, I think I'm, I think I'm
28:04
still in the record books in the 400 hurdles.
28:07
And I was like. Oh, wait a minute, so.
28:09
You're not fast. He was like, you know, look it
28:13
up. So I'm looking, I can't find
28:15
anything. And he actually went to work
28:19
because my dad's, my dad was a cop, you know, he's ADC police
28:21
officer. He went to work and he printed
28:24
out a, he printed out the records and then he brought it
28:28
to me one day, just handed it to me and walked away, closed his
28:31
door and locked it. You know, he didn't, he didn't
28:33
want to say anything else. He just gave it to me and walked
28:35
away. So I'm looking, I'm like, what?
28:37
When the world's this, I'm looking.
28:38
I see the 100. I see the 200, you know, I go
28:40
all the way down and see the hurdles.
28:42
I see the 110 hurdles. I'm like, I don't see a name on
28:44
here. And I see the four and a half.
28:45
I was like, oh, you were fast. So I I think he ran 5151.
28:52
Dude. I don't know.
28:53
I forget what year it was, but he's number two all time and he
28:56
is still to this day, number two all time in Miami.
28:59
Ohio Holy cow on. A hurdle history.
29:01
Yeah, hey, 5151 is nothing to sneeze that, you know that.
29:04
Yeah, there's a coach like I'll take a 51 second.
29:08
So it's interesting, you know, you're telling a story and I'm
29:12
kind of visualizing it and you know, I just kind of think about
29:14
like, like one of the things I try to do and I do, I feel like
29:18
I do a very, a pretty good job is putting myself in other
29:21
people's shoes. And I'm thinking it's like,
29:23
yeah, you know, how do we talk to our children?
29:25
I have a 8th grade, you know, it's almost going to be in high
29:27
school next year. How do we Like, there's some
29:29
things I do sometimes, like just assume he knows and then when he
29:33
doesn't, I'm and I and I really think about like, Oh yeah, how
29:35
would he know? Even though he's, you know,
29:37
every piece of information in his hand, right?
29:39
He's got his phone and you have the ability to look those things
29:41
up. You're not that old that, you
29:42
know, you didn't have Internet as you're growing up here in
29:43
high school. But why would you know what the
29:46
University of Miami, Ohio would be as a junior or whatever at
29:50
high school? Like unless dad was like, hey,
29:52
you know, if I went to school, I'm a Red Hawk.
29:54
I think they are, you know, like, how would it just
29:57
interesting, like the lenses that we see things through and
30:00
it's like, well, why don't you know that Paris?
30:01
And it's like, why would I know that, Dad?
30:03
Like, I see, unless you tell me, how in the world am I supposed
30:07
to know this school in Oxford? OH, for there's a lot of
30:09
schools. Dad, come on now.
30:11
It's just really interesting. So he, he, he like, when I saw
30:16
that I, I started to really like look into that school.
30:19
So I started to look at Miami, Ohio a little bit more.
30:20
I was like, I don't want to be, you know, and me being from
30:25
Maryland, I didn't think about weather because I was like, oh,
30:28
we got snow, it's cold, we get snow.
30:30
It is what it is. Ohio, I've never been, I'll
30:34
whatever, I can go it, it'll be the same as here.
30:36
So it'd be the same as home, except it's not the same as
30:39
home. So, so we're doing, you know,
30:43
things. And I was going to my, my
30:45
college, actually college recruiting trips in the summer,
30:48
you know, not summer. My going to my senior year, I
30:51
was going on trips I'm. Ohio and pause there real quick.
30:56
What are you as a 17 ish year old kid who's, you know, going
31:00
to the senior year, you're starting to look at school.
31:01
You're actually kind of looking at schools a little early even,
31:04
which is crazy. You know, it's crazy to think,
31:06
you know, senior year going to high schools early.
31:08
But some people don't think about this stuff till March or
31:10
April, right? What are you?
31:13
Where is your mind as far as like, oh, I'm going to become my
31:16
dad's a cop. I'm going to go study criminal
31:19
justice, all right. I'm going to go pre Med.
31:20
What were you thinking as far as like a major and therefore like
31:24
what I might become one day as an adult as a 17 year was?
31:27
When I was shoot, probably when I was 10, I was like, I'll be a
31:30
police officer. Then I thought about it.
31:32
Then I thought about, yeah, because of my dad, my mom's a
31:34
correctional officer. So.
31:36
So I was like, I'll probably go do that.
31:37
And then I, as I got a little older, I was like, I don't want
31:41
to do that because I don't want to do that.
31:43
I don't want to have to chase that to nobody.
31:45
I don't want to, I don't want none of that.
31:46
I don't want, I want to deal with it.
31:48
So then I, you know, it's like sports.
31:50
I was like, I just like sports. And I say, if I could do
31:52
anything to be around sports the rest of my life, I want to.
31:56
And then I think it was my my sophomore junior year in high
31:59
school, we had these classes like I know my senior, we had a
32:02
college career ready course, but we had something else.
32:08
And you know, we're talking about it with our with our
32:10
teachers. And they said, yeah.
32:14
And what do you guys want to do for, you know, when you go to
32:16
college? And I was like, I mean, if I go,
32:17
if I go to college, I want to do something sports.
32:19
And for whatever reason, I was thinking sport medicine.
32:23
Now me not really thinking about sports medicine.
32:27
And and then I finally, I did actually did some research on
32:31
sports medicine. I was like, oh, this has
32:33
biology, this has science. I want no parts.
32:36
You know, me and me and science were we were not friends.
32:40
Me, science and math, you know, we were not friends.
32:43
I was not friends with science and math.
32:44
And that was from middle school on.
32:46
Now I, I did, I tried to stay away from those two.
32:50
So I was like, what else can I do that's going to be around
32:52
sports? So I'm looking it up on the
32:54
Internet, you know, and I see sport management now.
32:58
It's like, what does that have? What is that, you know, And
33:00
then, you know, something just said managing sports.
33:03
I was like, oh OK, I guess now. Like I want to manage sports,
33:08
yeah. Look deeper into it.
33:10
And I was like, OK, oh, it's, it's, it's, it's more broad than
33:14
that. You know, it's, it's a lot more
33:16
stuff in into it than just managing sports, right.
33:19
So I was like, OK, I that's what I want to do.
33:21
OK, you you weren't. I don't hear that coaching was
33:24
necessarily. No, yeah, no, no.
33:26
That's not easy. That's never mind.
33:28
That was never something for me. I I never thought about it.
33:30
I had never thought about coaching, ever.
33:32
Love it. Love it.
33:34
So senior year you're starting to be recruiting and you're kind
33:35
of thinking sports management. Talk to us about that recruiting
33:38
process. So that summer, actually that
33:40
summer going to Miami, Ohio, I was actually getting recruited
33:43
by the, I was getting recruited by, you know, because I reached
33:46
out, talked to him. I remember my official visit.
33:49
What What year did you graduate high school?
33:51
2014 OK. Perfect.
33:53
Thank you. So it's 2014.
33:55
It was a weird time with Miami, Ohio, but I, I, I went out, me
34:00
and my dad went out and it was cold.
34:03
I don't, I think we went, we had to have gone in the winter
34:06
sometime. So it was cold.
34:07
And we get out there and he's he's reminiscing big time.
34:14
He hadn't been back since he graduated.
34:15
So he's reminiscing big time. He's showing me around and he's
34:17
like, oh, wait, you have a tour. And I was like, yeah, I do.
34:21
So I meet with the coaches and I was being recruited by the
34:26
combined events coach and the hurdle coach and I, their names
34:29
are gone out of my memory right now, but I was being recruited
34:32
by two coaches there. And you know, I was like, they
34:34
told me like, hey, you got to pick one.
34:36
You can't do both. And I was like, I can do both.
34:38
I could do both. And it was like, no, we're,
34:41
we're trying to tell you like if you do the combined events, it's
34:45
going to be difficult to do the fun of hurdles because of the
34:47
training that you have to do. I love a 17 year old telling
34:51
college coaches, no, you don't know what you're talking about,
34:53
I can do this. So I mean, I'm, I'm thinking I
34:57
could do it. I'm like, no, I got it.
34:58
I can do it. I can do it me today.
35:02
I know that me then was crazy to even have that thought process.
35:07
Like I could do both of them. No, no, little parish, you
35:11
cannot do both. So yeah, we're, we're talking
35:15
about everything. And then I think I committed on
35:19
the spot, you know, I had committed on the spot.
35:20
And I was like, hey, you know, I said I'll go here.
35:23
My dad never pushed me to go there.
35:24
You know, he never told me, hey, this is where you should go.
35:28
I went here. He said you should.
35:29
He would just let me do my thing, you know?
35:32
So I know Miami fairly well I Ball State.
35:35
So we were in the same conference.
35:37
They have A, and I don't remember where the evolution,
35:42
but they're one of like now only three or four men's teams in the
35:46
conference. But they don't, I don't think
35:48
they had indoor track right, Like as a sport.
35:53
I think they had indoor and outdoor.
35:56
OK. This is what I'm about to get
35:59
into. They ended up cutting the men's
36:03
program, right at one point. So it was actually my senior
36:06
year. They had cut the men's program,
36:08
Yeah. Senior year, hold on Senior
36:10
year, high school, senior year of high.
36:11
School when I was about to, yeah.
36:13
So I was about to go. Hold on, let's paint that
36:15
picture. OK, so going into senior year,
36:20
you commit, you're like, yeah, this is what I'm going, I'm
36:22
going to follow, which is kind of cool, honestly, that you're,
36:24
you know, legacy I think is what they call it, right?
36:25
Legacy, commit. And then senior year you're,
36:29
you're running, you're, you know, you feel pretty probably
36:31
feeling pretty good, Like, oh man, I know where I'm going.
36:33
I can kind of just focus on running fast, finish out the
36:36
grades, yadda, yadda. And then Miami cuts the program.
36:40
They cut it, they cut it. It was, I think it was a Title
36:43
Nine thing, but also I'm not 100% sure.
36:46
It's almost never a title nine thing, just that's the excuse
36:50
that we use. It's a priority issue with these
36:52
universities. What I mean, you had to feel
36:55
like I, I just feel like. Here's Paris senior.
36:57
I was on. I felt on top of the.
36:58
World. Yeah.
36:59
Senior year, man. I'm graduating.
37:01
I feel good. You know, I made my school
37:03
choice. Like, there's no bumps in the
37:05
road, baby. And then, yeah, this barricade
37:08
comes with. And then that happened like, no
37:10
fault of your own. Like, if you, you know, senior
37:12
year you'd coasted and doing really good and you flunked
37:14
biology. It's like, well, you know,
37:15
Paris, that's on you. Like you, right, You did.
37:18
This had nothing to do with you. And they cut the program.
37:23
Senior year comes to a stop a little bit like, oh crap, what's
37:27
going through your mind? What do you do?
37:29
That's huge. So honestly, at that time I
37:31
looked at my dad. I said, look, hey, I'm back to
37:34
square one. I'm not going to school.
37:36
I'm a just. I said once I graduate, I'm a
37:37
just work. I said it is what it is.
37:39
He was like. That's a terrible decision.
37:41
You just throw it all out. That's what they call throwing
37:44
the baby out with the bathwater. What are you talking about?
37:46
Are you serious? So I was.
37:48
I had some, the option is to go to school in Maryland.
37:52
And like I said before, I didn't want to go to school in
37:54
Maryland. I just did not want to do it.
37:56
So I was like, I'm just, I just work.
37:57
I'm, I'm making money, you know? But if Miami was recruiting you,
38:02
other schools, even outside of Maryland, had to be, yeah.
38:05
And it were. It didn't.
38:07
Fall back. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
38:08
You didn't fall back. Like, OK, well, I guess I'll try
38:10
Robert Moore. So you just.
38:12
I was just throwing everything away.
38:13
I'm. So glad you've grown up and
38:16
they're much better, more mature now.
38:18
Again, you're an 18 year old at this point, so I can give a lot
38:20
of grace. So what do you do?
38:22
You. You.
38:22
You really quit. So no, I, I funny enough, I was
38:27
also being recruited by Audus and Broaddest University.
38:31
So wow, I'm being recruited by Audus and Broaddest the entire
38:36
time. Coach Jesse Weiner, he was
38:38
recruiting me the entire time. He would not leave me alone.
38:43
He wouldn't leave me alone. Honestly, he would not leave me
38:45
alone, which I'm actually happy nowadays that I'm, I'm happy
38:48
that he did it. But he just kept texting me,
38:51
calling me, whatever it was, all these things going on.
38:56
Like I said, Miami had cut the program and then and it's just
39:00
like things in March, this happens.
39:04
I you know, I'm thinking I'm going there in February, you
39:07
know, and then in March just no. And I'm like, all right,
39:10
whatever. And then in April go to pen
39:14
relays. I see coach Weiner.
39:17
I see coach Jesse Weiner there, right?
39:19
And he's there with two, I think two people on the team.
39:22
You know, they they were running.
39:23
I think it was a distance event and probably the somebody doing
39:26
a hep actually two people that are my teammates.
39:30
You know, that very next year. And, you know, he's talking to
39:33
me and I'm looking at him like, buddy, I don't know nothing
39:38
about West Virginia. I said I know nothing about West
39:41
Virginia. I don't think I would ever go to
39:46
that state. And you know, we're just talking
39:48
like he's talking to me. And I'm, I'm just, I told him
39:50
like, like, honestly, you know, I was like, I don't think I'm
39:53
ever going to go to that state. Funny enough, though, one of my
39:57
teammates was already committed there, inside there for
40:00
football. And we were teammates for
40:03
football and we were teammates for trap.
40:05
So he's at Penn Relays with me. He meets, you know, coach and
40:10
you know, we're talking. And then he was like, you know,
40:12
after the meet he was like, hey, Paris, you should just come on
40:15
like we'd be roommates, you know, whatever, blah, blah,
40:17
blah. I was like, man, I don't know.
40:20
He's like, Nah, man, come on. Like you got to, you know, come
40:23
on with me. You say you you say you're not
40:25
going to Miami no more. Just come to school with me.
40:27
And I was like, man, I don't want to go to West Virginia.
40:31
I've never been there like that. I said I have never been to that
40:34
state or that school. So another young decision.
40:40
Sorry about that, my dog. There's a dog right there.
40:43
Is the dog's name like brought us or something?
40:45
And so it's like, Oh no, just talking about.
40:48
Daisy, actually, but. Nice, nice, nice.
40:51
But yeah, so my, my roommate, my freshman, yeah, he's, he's like,
40:54
yeah, come on, man. I was like, all right, so I made
40:57
a young decision and I was like, all right, I'm, I'm going to
40:59
commit there, you know, so I just committed, had never been
41:01
to the school anything. Just committed to a school
41:04
blindly and show up to orientation in the summertime.
41:09
And I was looking at, I was like, I chose to come here.
41:12
Oh my goodness. I was like, Oh my goodness.
41:17
I I said this is not what I thought I was going to, what I
41:20
was signing up for. And, you know, the coach had
41:24
told me like, yeah, we're going to track.
41:27
He was like, we're, we're in the talks of it, you know, OK, so
41:30
when I got on the campus and I was like, hey, what's the track?
41:32
He was like, Oh, yeah, we're in the talks for it.
41:35
And I was like, OK, where is it? Where's it going to be at?
41:40
He's like, I'll let you know whenever you get back from
41:43
campus. So after I go to that
41:46
orientation, I'm already signed up for classes and everything.
41:49
My high school coach texts me and says, hey, Paris, I know
41:52
about Miami and all that stuff. Are you?
41:57
He said you found out about find another school.
42:00
Yeah, I just said, I said Joe told me about, you know, all
42:04
this and brought us and I just said I'd go, you know, I'd go
42:07
there because the coaches never stopped blowing on my phone.
42:09
He was like, what? He said well, I just got a call
42:12
from UNCW. About.
42:16
This and I was like, huh, I was like, wait, what I said, where's
42:19
that? You know, he's like it's in
42:22
North Carolina. It's it's down in about a about
42:24
a water. I was like, Oh well, sorry, I
42:29
can't do anything with it because I've already signed to
42:31
the school and I'm I'm going here.
42:33
I just got back from doing like doing stuff for my classes.
42:36
He's like, oh, well, he said, well, it's worth it's worth
42:40
asking you about it. So we kind of left that alone.
42:45
Then I end up, you know, Fast forward through the rest of the
42:48
summer, because this is all in the summer that that happened.
42:50
You know, I get to, you know, the the school year in my
42:55
freshman year and boom, I'm at artists and brought us and I
42:59
walked onto the football team. And so that's a lot, a lot of
43:02
people don't know that I did that.
43:03
I walked to the football team because when I was on, when I
43:06
was at orientation, I saw the football coach and I was like,
43:09
Hey, you know, and I talked to him a little bit and he was
43:11
like, Hey, can I walk onto the team?
43:13
And he was like, yeah, sure, you know.
43:15
So the head coach said, sure, I never talked to my position
43:19
coach. Head coach said, sure, never
43:22
talked to my position coach or the office coordinator.
43:24
So I went from, as I told you in high school, I was playing more
43:28
safety. I did play a little bit of
43:31
receiver here and there. But when I got to college I said
43:34
I'm not going to worry about the defensive side, I worry about
43:37
receiver and I'll stick to that. So whenever I move in, I move in
43:44
early with football now, I wasn't supposed to move in as
43:47
early just because I was like you said, as a walk on, you move
43:50
in when everybody else moves in and then you because I'm not
43:53
going to go through the camp, but my roommate was already
43:55
there. So I was like, I move in and
43:58
that's where I met the other Paris my already so that Paris
44:02
is actually from DC, which we would have ran into each other
44:06
many times and just did not know.
44:09
And I'm on the football team too.
44:11
And you know, I'm just going through football stuff, you
44:15
know, go through the entire football season.
44:17
And at the end of the year I was like, Oh, well, actually in the
44:21
before the first game, my track coach called me in his office
44:25
and was like, Hey, Paris, I got to tell you something.
44:27
I was like, what's that? And he was like, well, you don't
44:31
they say you're not eligible this year.
44:33
And I was like, how because I graduated with three five, I'm
44:37
on that eligible, eligible. He said, well, I'm looking at
44:39
like your credits and stuff. And it's like you're half a
44:42
credit short. And I was like, what?
44:44
No way. So then I backtracking my mind,
44:48
I'm like, what could I be? Half a credit short?
44:51
And I was like, ah, so we had the half a day schedule that you
44:56
can have. And some people would use that
44:58
half a day schedule as, hey, I'm going to school every other day.
45:02
So you just put that half a day, put it together on one day.
45:05
And that's what I did. So I did that every other day at
45:08
school. And I dropped my forensic
45:13
science class. I did not like science.
45:15
Forensic science I was OK with, but I didn't want to have it
45:19
because literally my day was I go to school, I go to gym, I go
45:24
to one other class, I go back to gym, I go to another class, I go
45:27
back to gym and then I go to English and that was my day.
45:30
And I was like, that's my A day. And my b-day was I go to, I
45:36
think it was forensic science. I go to a gym class, I go to
45:41
something else. So it was like a one of the days
45:44
is just like, I don't really care about just being here doing
45:47
the same thing over and over and over again when I could be
45:50
making money while I'm in school, you know, So I just went
45:55
and decided to have a, you know, every other day of school
45:57
schedule and I thought I was good.
45:59
My counselor thought I she said I was good for graduation, but
46:02
she didn't. Didn't do for Hey, you're good
46:06
for sports. So what happens?
46:12
So I'm just, I'm just there, I'm still, I'm still practicing,
46:15
still doing my training and everything, but I just, I
46:19
wasn't, I would, I would say, I would, I won't say I was
46:22
defeated, you know, because. Yeah, I was thinking that's
46:24
another roadblock, yeah. Yeah, somebody, you know, you
46:26
hear that? You're like, well, Dang, you
46:29
know, especially hearing from me like, oh, when Miami, Ohio, I
46:32
was, I'm just not going to school.
46:33
And I was like, whatever, man. I, I guess I just get my grades
46:37
up now and, you know, see what happens.
46:40
And I just stayed there. You know it again, in Phillippi,
46:43
West Virginia. That's where all this broadness
46:45
was. Phillippi, West Virginia nothing
46:50
there, it's not much there 30 minutes in three different
46:55
directions to your nearest Walmart.
46:59
You got an hour until you get to Morgantown, WV, where West
47:02
Virginia University is. You wanted to go to Charleston,
47:04
WV. You got two hours that you grab.
47:07
So it was it was rough for me being from, you know, the
47:11
suburbs of of Prince Jose County, Maryland, of Largo, MD,
47:16
to going to. Country.
47:19
Phillippi, West Virginia, the country, the country roads for
47:22
sure. You know, it was, it was
47:26
different, but you know, I did my, you know, I did that first
47:29
year and I was like, you know, I met some good people here.
47:32
So, you know, and everybody like my sister's dad and my uncle, he
47:35
asked me, he's like, you want to leave?
47:36
And I was like, I do, but I'm also too lazy to do all that
47:40
extra stuff to look at other. Places do it all over, you know,
47:43
Right. Yeah.
47:44
Because there was no transfer portal.
47:46
So it was more of a you talk to your AD, your AD or your
47:49
compliance director, and then the compliance director gets
47:52
everything situated for you and you go, I was just too lazy, you
47:57
know, and I'll admit that, I admit it all the time.
48:00
I was too lazy to leave. So did you stay the entire time
48:02
at AB? Yeah.
48:03
Is that right? Wow.
48:05
In my entire four years there, so my sophomore year, and I
48:10
forgot to mention this, my freshman year, we had a coach
48:12
came in. She actually came from Ashland.
48:14
So I knew something about Ashton.
48:17
I didn't know a whole bunch, but I knew Ashton was good in trap.
48:20
So she had came over and she was, you know, she was an all
48:25
American hurdler. I was like, all right, perfect.
48:27
I got an all American hurdler. That's my coach.
48:29
She's going to help me get faster, get used to these 42
48:32
inch hurdles, get used to the, you know, the 400 hurdles, you
48:35
know more and I'm going to be all American.
48:38
You know, I was like, she's going to help me get to that.
48:41
She left in December. Oh man.
48:44
So she had left in December. She let some of the girls on the
48:47
team know that she was leaving. I found out in January.
48:51
When I got back to school, I was like, Dang, I don't have a
48:55
coach. So now I'm just doing all this
48:57
training on my own and just trying to trying to keep my
49:01
hopes up, you know, keep my hopes up during this year.
49:05
Summer comes, I get a phone call from this random guy, and me and
49:10
him talk about it every day, still to the day.
49:14
Coach Earl Graves, you know, so Coach Graves is actually at
49:18
Mount Olive in North Carolina right now, but he called me in
49:22
the summer. He's like, hey, Paris, you know,
49:24
this is Coach Graves. I'm the new Sprint coach at AB.
49:29
You know, I got your number from coach.
49:31
Coach winner. We're going to, you know, I want
49:32
to talk to you. I want to make sure I talk to
49:34
you. You're the first call I'm
49:35
making. I saw your time from high
49:37
school. I know that you weren't running
49:39
last. You didn't get to run last year.
49:41
I want us to, you know, build some type of relationship so
49:43
that, you know, when you get here, we can, you know, we'll be
49:46
good and then we can get to work, you know, whenever season
49:48
comes by. So me, I was like, all right,
49:51
man, you know? Yeah.
49:52
You know, that was just. Yeah, yeah.
49:54
We'll see You're going to leave too.
49:56
It's. Summertime, I was like, you're
49:58
going to leave in December anyways, You know, it is what it
50:00
is. But no, I, you know, when I got
50:03
back crazy enough, Coach Weiner, you know, asked me to do cross.
50:10
You know me, I was like, I'm not playing football.
50:12
Oh, I forgot to mention, I told the coaches I wasn't playing
50:15
football no more after the season.
50:18
Smart decision. You know, I think it was a smart
50:21
decision for myself and for my career and how everything went
50:24
and for my body, honestly, for sure.
50:28
But you know, I get back to school and I'm running cross
50:31
country. First time in my life ever run
50:33
across country. I didn't do all the mileage
50:36
everybody else did. I didn't I I was the biggest guy
50:41
on my team. You know, I was still, you know,
50:43
I had put on weight in football, so I was just the the biggest
50:47
guy on my team. And you know, and then everybody
50:49
else is out there is like, wow, is he out here?
50:51
You know, my teammates weren't saying that because they're
50:53
like, hey, we need a fifth guy and Paris, you're the fifth guy.
50:56
And I was like, I'll be the fifth guy every day of the week.
50:59
You know, I would not drop from 5th because I can't, I would not
51:02
be fourth though. And we would, you know, we went
51:07
through the year and I just kind of I liked it because the one
51:12
thing I liked about it was a guy, you know, because I was a
51:15
foreign hurler. I, I built up the wind.
51:18
So I would never tell anybody to do cross country, you know, if
51:22
they don't need to or if they're not, you know, asked to do it.
51:25
But I would never tell anybody to do it.
51:27
But it did for me. It helped me, you know, with my
51:29
wind. But then also, you know, my, we,
51:33
we ate good. So I was like, Hey, you feeding
51:35
me so I can't get mad at you. You're feeding me.
51:39
We're good. The one thing I didn't like was
51:42
every time that we went to, whenever we went to conference,
51:46
I would always look at it like, dude, I'm gonna come in last.
51:49
And I don't like losing. I don't like losing that much.
51:52
Like at regular meats, I'm OK, Everybody knows I am a sprinter.
51:55
But when you get to the conference, it's like, dude, I
51:59
don't want to come in last. So if I got a Sprint for the
52:01
last 400 meters of this race, just let me know where 400
52:04
meters is. Honestly, let me know where 800
52:06
meters is and I'll start running there and I'll start sprinting
52:08
there. Yeah, very much so.
52:11
Cross country humble me a lot and then we will go to regionals
52:16
and we were in the G Max. So we're in the Midwest, you
52:21
know, we're in the Midwest region and we're always at what
52:26
school is that? It's in Indiana.
52:30
I think they're D1 now IU. IUPUI or University of Indy?
52:35
No, it's not you, Andy. Oh my goodness, why am I
52:39
forgetting? Marion flames.
52:41
Marion, Oh the flames. Flames.
52:44
Not not flames, but it's going to pop up in my head, but I I
52:47
forget exactly what it, but I know it was a Native American
52:53
where we ran. That was a Native American site,
52:55
you know, so it's like a tombs there, Native American tombs and
52:59
we were running there, ran there.
53:00
The two years I ran across country.
53:01
We were running there for regions and I dreaded it.
53:05
I was like first of all, we're in this fan for hours.
53:09
I have to run and it's 100 plus, maybe 200 plus.
53:14
People are running. I am going to get last and my
53:18
coach does not care and I'm running a 10 Ki only thought
53:22
about A8. And I'm running, right?
53:26
So I honestly didn't know it was a 10K until we got the regions
53:29
my freshman year. Coach conveniently did not.
53:33
Tell he was like, oh. Yeah, just keep going bro.
53:37
See, I don't know. I'm just like dude, what?
53:41
So then, you know, I think I got 5th the last my first year I got
53:47
5th the last. And I looked at him, I said I
53:48
didn't get last and I told you I wasn't.
53:50
I said we beat somebody. We beat two teams.
53:53
We beat two teams that year. And then the second year, same
53:57
thing, we beat. No, well, I got tempted last I
54:00
think. And I said we beat a couple more
54:02
teams. So I said, but this is I'm done.
54:04
I ain't doing this no more. And you're like, what you mean?
54:06
I said, Nope, you got more people.
54:08
You're recruiting more. Yeah, go recruiting some more.
54:11
So now I got to track and actually, because Graves was,
54:14
you know, he said, I'm glad you're not doing cross no more.
54:17
He said, I wanted you never to do it, but I couldn't say.
54:20
I couldn't say nothing, right. So, you know, we get in track
54:24
and we still don't have this track.
54:27
You know, my sophomore year, no track.
54:30
You know, I'm I'm, I'm getting into the hurdles and everything.
54:33
No track my junior year, no track.
54:36
Like OK, He's like, no, I didn't even ask my coaching anymore.
54:40
I was like, I want to ask you about the track, but I'm not,
54:43
you know, it's no need for me to even ask you about anything with
54:45
the track because you told me he was getting in my freshman year.
54:47
We didn't get it. Told me he was getting in
54:49
sophomore year. We didn't get it.
54:50
So he was getting in my dinner here.
54:51
We didn't really have, we didn't have it, but they were actually
54:55
talking about it. So they did break ground, broke
54:58
ground at the high school. It's about 10 minute drive away.
55:03
They broke ground there and they were putting a track there.
55:08
So then my, I think my junior year I qualify for national
55:13
foreign hurdles, at least the provisional qualifying time.
55:16
So I wasn't making it anywhere. I just hit the hit a standard
55:19
right And I was like, all right, that's I like that.
55:23
You know, a lot of the people that I raced in the conference
55:28
meet were very fast. I think Malone had gotten to the
55:32
conference my junior year, and that was when I had to race.
55:37
He's in the NFL now. Ashlyn Doolin.
55:40
So he came in with, you know, the time.
55:43
His times were all faster than everybody, you know, and the
55:46
one, well, not the one and the two, the 110 hurdles, the 400
55:50
hurdles, he had the best long jump.
55:52
He probably would have had the best high job.
55:54
And me, I'm looking like just want to win something, you know,
56:01
so, and also I failed to mention this.
56:05
We didn't have the combined events as a as an event in the
56:09
conference. So me being somebody that does
56:12
it, we didn't have it. So I did all those events
56:15
individually. My sophomore year was the, well,
56:18
my junior year, my sophomore year on the track, my junior
56:20
year was the first year that I actually did like a decathlon
56:24
without it being a decathlon. So I did povo in this outdoor
56:31
conference. I did povo.
56:32
I did long jump, I did high jump, I did the four by one.
56:35
I did the 4x4, I did the once in hurdles, the foreign hurdles.
56:39
I did javelin. I just did not throw shot.
56:42
Holy. Cow did all of this at the
56:43
conference meet. Now POVO got rained out day one.
56:47
We had to come back day 2. So I counted it as, hey, this is
56:50
a tough event and did that and I again, I enjoyed it, You know,
56:57
my dad drove all the way up to see it, you know, but Ashton
57:02
dueling now, I raced him. I beat him in once in hurdles.
57:05
That was his bread and butter and I was ecstatic.
57:07
I. Was super happy.
57:10
I know he was pissed off. Me and him are good buddies
57:12
today, but I know he was pissed off because he did not let me
57:15
see a win in the foreign hurdles.
57:19
So that year, I mean I got second to him.
57:21
I was like, whatever it is what it is.
57:25
And then go into my senior year. Actually, after the season,
57:28
Coach Graves had announced that hey guys, you know, I'm, I'm
57:31
leaving, you know, so he took another job.
57:35
He took a job at Mount Olive. So he's been at Mount Olive
57:38
since 20. And I saw my junior year, 2017,
57:43
20/16/2017 was that year. So 2017 he would have went down
57:46
to Mount Olive and he's been there since.
57:50
And you know, when he left, I was like another time with no
57:53
coach and I don't have a coach no more.
57:58
But at also in this time, I'm thinking about grad school for
58:01
whatever reason. And I was like.
58:03
So I was going to ask you, as we're going into senior year,
58:06
are you still sports management as an undergrad?
58:08
And, and I still, I'm not hearing it from your story.
58:12
I I'm still not hearing like, Oh yeah, I'm going to become a
58:14
coach. Oh, Nope, yeah, it's it's won't
58:17
come in to see a year then, but that's.
58:18
That's good. OK, so walk us through senior
58:21
year as you start looking at grad school for Crowd out loud.
58:25
Yeah, and remember I told you I didn't like school.
58:27
That's all right, yeah. I'm, I'm thinking about grad
58:30
school only because I was like, oh, I got another year of track.
58:33
So that's, that's what I was looking at.
58:35
I was like, I have another year of sports.
58:36
So I'm in grad school and I'm, you know, going in the same
58:42
year. I'm a sport management major
58:44
with a minor in business administration, but I was taking
58:49
classes in communication because one of my good friends he was
58:54
did the same thing. But communication was his second
58:57
minor because they forced us to have two.
59:00
We had we had a hat. To have a minor within a sport
59:03
management major, you had to have a business something minor.
59:06
So that was mine was communication and I could have
59:10
made it a major. So double major.
59:13
But they told me I had to come back for another semester and I
59:15
said it's not happening, ain't happening, but going to stay in
59:20
a year. The coach that came in to coach
59:23
me then was a year older than me.
59:25
I had raised him the year prior. I had raised him.
59:28
He went to East Stroudsburg. I had raised him in the once in
59:32
hurdles. He was an All American hurdler.
59:34
So I was like, I'll listen to you.
59:37
I said I won't call you coach, but I'm going to respect you.
59:39
I'm I'm going to respect you. I'm going to make sure everybody
59:40
else in the same respects you because I was just looked at us,
59:43
the team captain on the team, you know, we never did votes,
59:46
but everybody kind of looked to me to get any, anything from the
59:50
coaches. They would look to me and you
59:54
know, I always told him how you know, his name is Steve.
59:59
You know Steve, we always, always anything with Steve.
1:00:01
I told him I was like, listen, I I said just help me with my one
1:00:07
10s. I said you help me with that.
1:00:08
We're good. I said I know you can't really
1:00:11
help me too much with the 400 hurdles, but you help me with
1:00:14
these one 10s. I love you forever.
1:00:16
So he did help me with my one 10s a little bit, but what I
1:00:21
didn't know and he mentioned this to me later, you know, he
1:00:24
was like, you know, anything you do with the one 10s, like he
1:00:26
said you're not going to run 14 two.
1:00:27
He said you're 5 foot nothing. He said I'm 5 foot nothing, but
1:00:31
I just have more speed than what you do.
1:00:33
He said anything I'm doing with these one 10s is going to
1:00:36
translate to the force. And I was like, how, you know, I
1:00:40
just was confused, like, how's that going to translate?
1:00:42
I said, it doesn't make sense. I said if I run a 800, maybe you
1:00:45
could say it translates, but not me running the 110 hurdles.
1:00:48
That ain't translating. And he was like, trust me, you
1:00:51
know, So I did trust him. And I had qualified for
1:00:56
nationals again, foreign hurdles this time I ran a little faster,
1:01:01
you know, and I'm looking at schools to go to within this,
1:01:07
you know, within his time. And because he went to East
1:01:10
Stroudsburg, I said, you know what, let me let.
1:01:13
Me. Applied to East Stroudsburg.
1:01:15
So I applied to East Stroudsburg.
1:01:17
I applied to Liberty University and the only reason I applied to
1:01:20
Liberty University was because my my professors told me hey,
1:01:25
they have a great sport management program.
1:01:27
So I was like, oh, OK, let me look into that.
1:01:32
And then I also applied to Western University because they
1:01:35
also had a great, you know, sport management program,
1:01:38
master's program. And then the last school I
1:01:40
applied to was IUP. So 2P sack schools, 2 Division
1:01:47
One schools, one in Virginia, one in West Virginia, the one in
1:01:50
West Virginia, no track. Every other school has tracked.
1:01:53
So I got accepted into every school.
1:01:57
Now for me, it was just a decision on where do you want to
1:01:59
go? So I'm, I'm just thinking about,
1:02:04
I'm like, oh Lord, I don't know how.
1:02:06
I don't know where I'm going to go.
1:02:08
Do I go to PA? Do I go to Virginia?
1:02:11
Do I stay in West Virginia? Those are my decisions.
1:02:15
And ultimately I made the decision to go to IUP.
1:02:18
So I had some friends that and went to IUP, some people I
1:02:22
competed against in high school. So they just went there.
1:02:25
Not everybody knows IUP. We're talking about Indiana
1:02:27
University of Pennsylvania, correct?
1:02:29
Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:29
OK. Just so everybody's on the same
1:02:30
page. Keep going.
1:02:31
You're good. So yeah, not IUPUI.
1:02:34
Yeah, as I say, there's yeah, there's other.
1:02:35
People in Pennsylvania. So, yeah, I'm, I'm over there
1:02:39
and, you know, I go to the go to IUP.
1:02:42
You know, I emailed the coaches, try to call the coaches, all
1:02:47
this stuff. You know, I heard back from the
1:02:49
distance coach, the head coach, coach Joey Zenns, you know, he
1:02:52
was like, hey, you know, yeah, they take you in.
1:02:55
You know, he's like, you're fast.
1:02:56
So we definitely going to, you know, get you here.
1:03:00
Funny, even funnier situation. I look back at pictures from my
1:03:05
senior year and IUP had came to one of the track meets we hosted
1:03:09
at the high school. They were at a last chance meet
1:03:13
that I competed in and I, you know, I just the last chance
1:03:18
meet. I knew I was going there.
1:03:19
The homie. I was thinking about it, but I
1:03:22
wasn't sure I was going to go. But I was like, you know,
1:03:25
whenever I look back at my pictures that pop up my phone,
1:03:27
I'm like, that's funny. IUP is in the back and I ended
1:03:31
up going there. Now you mentioned your senior
1:03:32
years, where coaching starts to, Oh yeah, enter the picture.
1:03:37
So in class I had a professor. He used to be the AD at the
1:03:42
school. He was the baseball coach at the
1:03:45
school, JD Long and JD pretty much he told me he was like he
1:03:52
looked at me in class one day because it was a coaching class
1:03:54
we had and I just needed it just because I needed extra credit or
1:03:57
so. And I was like, I'm just taking
1:03:58
this just to I need these credits.
1:03:59
So I'm going to take this class, whatever.
1:04:01
It's 2 credits, two credit course.
1:04:02
I'm just take it. And he said everybody in here is
1:04:06
not going to be a coach. First day.
1:04:08
He said everybody in here is not going to be a coach.
1:04:09
I was like, yes. You're like, Yep.
1:04:11
Looked at me. He looked at me and was like,
1:04:14
I'll see. You know you will.
1:04:17
You said we're going through the year and he said to me he was
1:04:21
like, is the Paris you? You have this this personality
1:04:28
about you and there's something about you like you'll be a coach
1:04:30
one day. And I was like, you, JD are
1:04:32
crazy because you're crazy. I would never coach because I
1:04:36
can't do it. I said I can't, I can't deal
1:04:38
with this. I said I got my teammates that
1:04:39
be complaining about everything. I can't I I stayed at high
1:04:42
school. Oh, that was even worse.
1:04:44
I said I I would never coach and he said I think you'll coach.
1:04:50
So you know, I, I heard it. I was like, you're just talking.
1:04:54
I said you're old. You're just talking, man.
1:04:56
It is, it is what it is. You're just talking.
1:04:58
So then I go to grad school, right?
1:05:02
I do my year in grad school. I do, I do my first year in grad
1:05:05
school, my last year of track. And I mean, I'm getting coached
1:05:11
by, you know, an, an Olympian, Michelle Berger.
1:05:15
You know, she competed for Jamaica in 2008.
1:05:18
I think they were a bronze Med Listen to 4 by 4.
1:05:21
So she she's my coach, her husband, coach Duncan.
1:05:26
He was coaching me in like the hurdles.
1:05:28
You know, she would coach me everything else and he would
1:05:31
coach me in the hurdles and you know, we went through that.
1:05:35
It was I know you hear me talking, calm down.
1:05:40
But so she's coaching me in in other things.
1:05:44
She's coaching me in the hurdles and you know, they're like
1:05:48
Paris, you're why didn't we recruit you before?
1:05:51
And I was like, I don't know, why didn't you recruit?
1:05:53
Me, I don't like it. I have a track.
1:05:54
On campus, who's big? It's nice.
1:05:58
I said, why didn't you recruit me before?
1:06:00
And I said, I don't know. So we had a guy that was on the
1:06:02
team I was from from Maryland, he's from Baltimore.
1:06:04
And I was like, see, you recruited him.
1:06:06
And. They're like, no, that's all
1:06:09
bad. You know, that's all bad.
1:06:10
I was like, yeah. But you know, through that year,
1:06:14
you know, we're going through things and then we go into, you
1:06:20
know, the outdoor conference meet and I think it was the
1:06:23
fastest and it's still currently the fastest four in a hurdle
1:06:26
race that that conference has ever seen.
1:06:29
You had the number one time in the nation at that point of
1:06:31
time. You had in funny enough, the 5th
1:06:36
place finisher was the national champion 2 years later, Sam
1:06:42
Hartman that went to Seton Hill. He was the, he won the national
1:06:45
championship 2 years later, but the people that ran it was a 50
1:06:51
point, another 50 point and it's a 51.
1:06:53
And then I came through at 52 high, No 52 low or 5252 high.
1:07:02
So I figured. It was so Dad kept the family.
1:07:05
Yeah. Yeah.
1:07:06
OK. Yeah, I coached somebody
1:07:08
fascinating him. Though yeah, that don't count.
1:07:10
Doesn't count. But you know, I came through,
1:07:13
you know, at that time and I was like, you know, I was upset
1:07:17
because of the fact that it was done, like had my track rears
1:07:20
done. But also at the same time I was
1:07:22
happy. I was like, it's just I ran
1:07:24
fast, so I can't really be mad. And then that next year, you
1:07:29
know, I'm in school and my I'm actually being the, I'm like a
1:07:34
volunteer assistant coach because I was still on campus,
1:07:36
but I was done track. So I'm a volunteer.
1:07:39
Did you go into that second year, like, thinking like, oh,
1:07:42
OK, I'll, I've got another year of grad school, so I'll help the
1:07:45
team out a little bit with the idea of like, oh, because I'm
1:07:48
going to become a track. I'm still not here.
1:07:50
And like, I'm surprised you're a track coach at this point.
1:07:52
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
1:07:52
OK. All right.
1:07:54
So it's just something to do. Yeah, it's something to do
1:07:56
because I mean, I was working at the car dealership.
1:07:59
I was working, I needed some money.
1:08:00
I was working at the car dealership.
1:08:02
I'm doing this at volunteer coaching.
1:08:05
But all I was really doing was just running with them.
1:08:07
You know, I was just running with, with foreign hurlers and
1:08:09
the foreign runners. And then I got a phone call,
1:08:14
random night, got a phone call from Jesse Weiner.
1:08:17
You know, he's like, hey, what you doing?
1:08:19
And I was like playing the game, like why?
1:08:22
What's up? And he was like, you want to
1:08:23
coach? I was like, coach where?
1:08:29
Coach what? And he was like coach track.
1:08:32
He said, do you do you want to yes or no?
1:08:34
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I get into it.
1:08:38
Where? So I knew Jesse had already.
1:08:42
He was leaving from Audison Brothers.
1:08:45
So he was leaving at this point. He was leaving to go to another
1:08:48
school. He ended up taking a job at
1:08:50
Virginia and Wesleyan. He was asking me about coaching
1:08:55
and I was thinking he's taking me with him.
1:08:58
I was like, oh, go to Virginia Beach.
1:08:59
I'm good. You know, I'll be in Virginia
1:09:00
Beach. That's not what it was.
1:09:04
Oh wow. He was actually calling me for
1:09:06
the next head coach. That was that that you had.
1:09:11
Just left a year and a half ish. Yeah, just left a year and a
1:09:13
half, and I was thinking he was just taking me with him.
1:09:15
Right. So, you know, he talked to me
1:09:18
about it. He told our AD, you know, he
1:09:22
told her about me. Well, she already knew me.
1:09:23
You know, the AD already knew me.
1:09:25
I didn't talk to her much because she was the compliance
1:09:27
director at the time when I was in school, but she already knew
1:09:32
who I was. All this stuff about me.
1:09:34
And then the new head coach comes in.
1:09:37
She had coached at a bunch of different schools.
1:09:40
Caitlin Christopher. I always call her Miss West
1:09:42
Virginia because she's the first woman to or the 1st girl high
1:09:46
school girl to break. Was it the run?
1:09:51
Was it the break? I think it was a break, 5
1:09:53
minutes in the 15 in high school.
1:09:56
So I call her Miss West Virginia.
1:09:58
She went to WVU and she every time I say it to her, she's
1:10:01
like, oh, my goodness, Paris, stop saying that.
1:10:03
And I'm like, no, you, that's you.
1:10:05
I mean, I know you try to be humble about it, but that's you.
1:10:10
So then she called me, you know, a week later or so, and was
1:10:14
like, hey, Paris, you know, Jesse told me about this, this
1:10:16
and this and, you know, I want to get you in an interview.
1:10:18
And I was like, all right, I'm still in school, but you know, I
1:10:21
could leave at any point. So I go on my interview.
1:10:27
I think I killed it on my interview.
1:10:29
But also at the same time, she knew she wanted to hire me
1:10:31
because she told me she's like, hey, I want to hire you.
1:10:33
And then also, it was a place that I was familiar with.
1:10:36
Now, the hard part about that was that most of that team were
1:10:41
my teammates, you know, the year prior.
1:10:44
Your Steve. Yeah.
1:10:47
So I was like, well, Oh well, you know, it is what it is.
1:10:54
So then I come in and I'm coaching.
1:10:56
But some of the did you? Did you finish your degree at
1:10:59
IUP? I didn't.
1:11:00
I didn't. So I was, I was in the middle of
1:11:02
it and I just, I just stopped school and I was like, I'll
1:11:05
finish this. Later.
1:11:06
Why though? Because, you know, you're still
1:11:10
not a strong candidate to be AI know you're people are speaking
1:11:13
into you. You know, JD spoken to, you
1:11:14
know, Jesse thought about calling you for this, things
1:11:16
like that. But it's not like it's your
1:11:18
calling at this point. I'm not really sure you had a
1:11:22
call in at this point. You know, you wouldn't be in
1:11:23
sports or you're still not pursuing that educationally.
1:11:27
So I'm surprised that you weren't like, yeah, yeah, I can
1:11:29
do that. But I got to get my grad like
1:11:31
I'm already at least halfway through it.
1:11:33
But you just like, OK, let's let's go try this.
1:11:36
Yeah. And, and I think that was just
1:11:38
me taking a taking a leap of faith right there, honestly, so.
1:11:42
How did that work? Because this is an interesting
1:11:44
topic because you, you started talking about it with Steve.
1:11:47
So I believe that there should, you know, short, short, short of
1:11:53
being an actual rule. I don't think if you undergrad
1:11:56
at, at at Alderson Broadus that you should be allowed to do grad
1:12:00
work at Alderson Broadus because I just think like, man, Paris
1:12:03
on, you know, on Friday, your boys with the, the team and
1:12:05
you're playing Xbox in the dorms and all this kind of stuff.
1:12:08
And then Monday, now you're in grad school, you're the grad
1:12:10
coach. You're supposed to be coach
1:12:11
Vaughn. Like there's no way that works
1:12:14
out the way it's supposed to work out.
1:12:15
And so when you mentioned about Steve, he didn't go to Alderson
1:12:18
brought us, but he still you, like you said, you're like,
1:12:20
dude, I know you're a year older than me.
1:12:22
Like I raced against you last year.
1:12:24
Like what are you talking like? And now I'm supposed to call you
1:12:26
coach? Like like it.
1:12:28
It's hard for a a 21 ish 22 year old kid.
1:12:31
You're still a kid at that point to do that.
1:12:33
So IA 100% see that. So now you're like I said,
1:12:35
you're Steve. So now you come back and there's
1:12:39
your boys. You just there's a lot of people
1:12:41
on the team. You were just kicking it with,
1:12:42
you know, playing Xbox and stuff.
1:12:44
And now you're supposed to be coach Vaughn.
1:12:46
How did you handle that? So I, how it, how it went was
1:12:51
actually pretty. It was, it was that was like I
1:12:55
said, that was a little hard part, but it was easy in a sense
1:12:59
because most of the guys that I was teammates with, they were
1:13:04
younger, you know, so my team actually when I when I
1:13:07
graduated, the team was young, you know, we had a senior year
1:13:10
to. Year half removed.
1:13:12
So there is some. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:13:14
Yeah, yeah. So we had some seniors when I
1:13:17
graduated. It was a good load of the team
1:13:19
were seniors and then everybody else was a freshman or a
1:13:22
sophomore, right, Right. So then when I graduate now
1:13:25
they're sophomore, junior. But you're still that.
1:13:28
That makes a lot of sense. There's a few people that still
1:13:30
know you, but not like the majority of the team.
1:13:32
Yeah. So it's not the majority of the
1:13:33
team now. But but you're still a 2324, so
1:13:36
you're still for some of these kids only a year 2, maybe 3
1:13:39
years old. You know, it's a little bit
1:13:41
like, oh, dude, I just watched film on you.
1:13:42
Like we just watched the right the the conference meeting
1:13:45
there. You were like, what do you?
1:13:46
Mean and that's and that's just some of them said, you know, and
1:13:50
for them it was they looked at it a little weird.
1:13:53
I looked at it a little weird, but then also it was like it was
1:13:55
just kind of a gain of trust thing.
1:13:57
You know for me with them, you know, I was like I got a gain
1:13:59
y'all trust somehow and you know I was just that I was assistant
1:14:03
coaching my the head coaches was like, Hey, I'm not telling you
1:14:06
to be me. I'm not telling you to change
1:14:09
who you are to fit a coaching role.
1:14:12
Be yourself. I was like, OK, I'm just not
1:14:14
going to hang out with nobody. I said at the end of the day.
1:14:17
That's the one thing can't do it.
1:14:19
That's where I don't feel like the undergrad who stays and
1:14:21
because you're like, yeah, and something's telling me you're
1:14:23
still hanging out. I just, you know, everybody
1:14:26
that's had on, you know, not many people, but you know, I've
1:14:28
had a few that have done that. And I was like, how'd you handle
1:14:30
that? And, you know, one person, I
1:14:31
can't remember who they were, but they they said, you know, I
1:14:33
probably looking back at it now, I probably could have handled it
1:14:35
better. And I was like, I know exactly
1:14:36
what that means. You were hanging out.
1:14:38
You can't be doing that. So it it still doesn't feel like
1:14:44
kind of using that light switch analogy that click that you are
1:14:47
coach Vaughn. It feels like you could coach.
1:14:49
You could be like that coach from Ashland.
1:14:51
It still feels like in December you could leave and go back to
1:14:53
grad school or a sports market. Where does the the the switch
1:14:57
flip, if you will, that? Oh, OK, This is what I've been
1:15:01
didn't even know I was searching for this, but this is what I've
1:15:03
been searching for. I am a track coach.
1:15:06
I think it might have been the first meet.
1:15:08
So I actually got to, I got to campus in November.
1:15:15
OK, makes sense. First meets the first beginning
1:15:18
of December, so I got there like at the beginning of November, I
1:15:21
believe and I'm there we're going through our practices.
1:15:25
It's like it is what it is trying to think like they're
1:15:29
looking at me like this guy's young, you know, but you know,
1:15:33
but also the same time, it's like I'm still like two or three
1:15:37
years older than y'all. So but I also told them, Hey,
1:15:40
you don't got to call me Coach Vaughn.
1:15:41
Coach Vaughn was never a name that I ever told them to call
1:15:44
me. I said, you can call me Coach P
1:15:46
Coach Paris. You know, the people that have
1:15:48
my that are my like actually that were my friends.
1:15:50
I was like, you just call me Paris, you know?
1:15:54
And you weren't coaching them. You were like because I.
1:15:58
Was I was young, I was like, I'm not going to try to get pull
1:16:01
that out of you. I'm not going to pull TI.
1:16:03
See, I can see that. I don't agree with it, by the
1:16:05
way, but I don't agree with it because I'm a 48 year old guy at
1:16:09
this point. I can see when you're in the mid
1:16:12
because now, hopefully now you can see the little difference
1:16:15
like, oh, I have to create separation.
1:16:17
That that's what that's what that title coach does.
1:16:19
It creates separation. And it's not like, oh, we're
1:16:21
homeboys and you just happen to tell me bark out orders what to
1:16:23
do. You know, you've been boys with
1:16:26
people where it's like, well, I don't agree with you, so I'm
1:16:28
going to push back because you're my boy.
1:16:29
You can't do that with a coach, you know, So you got to create
1:16:32
that separation. Now that's all tough, but I can
1:16:34
see as a first time, first time coached, you know, I, I get it,
1:16:38
I get it makes sense. So, so the also the other thing
1:16:42
is like, I think the one senior on the team was one of the girls
1:16:48
and that's like my best friend, you know, even till today is
1:16:50
like my best friend. So she kind of made sure to
1:16:53
handle that with everybody else, Like, hey, just don't you know,
1:16:57
So everybody looked up to her. So she helped me in that sense
1:17:00
too. But I did have a rule for them.
1:17:03
And I told him, I said, Hey listen, this is the if you see
1:17:06
me out, you got to go. So I said if, and it was one
1:17:10
place in town, it's called Little Moe's.
1:17:12
I said if I'm in Little Moe's and y'all see me, you got to
1:17:15
leave. If you're there and I walk in,
1:17:18
guess what, you got to leave because I'm now in there.
1:17:20
So they always let, we always laughed at it, but they always
1:17:24
made sure that, oh, if I see coach, I'm just leave out just
1:17:26
because give him his boundaries and you know, etcetera.
1:17:29
So that was a good thing. Yeah, for sure.
1:17:32
What happened in that first meet?
1:17:33
That was like, oh, you said something clicked in that first.
1:17:36
The first meet, the very first. One, it was, it was our, it was
1:17:39
our high jumper, you know, one of our high jumper.
1:17:40
She actually coaches at Adrian in college now and she broke the
1:17:45
school record at high jump. And I was like, this is with a
1:17:48
couple weeks of practice, we broke the school record, a high
1:17:50
jump. I OK, I must be, I must know
1:17:54
what I'm doing just a little bit.
1:17:57
You know, she broke the school record there.
1:17:59
One of my 400 girls, she had, I think we put her on the 500 and
1:18:04
she was from Morgantown, WV. We ran it at WVU.
1:18:07
So she was home and she didn't, she didn't run the fastest race.
1:18:13
And she came to me and said, Hey, coach, I ran that terribly.
1:18:17
And I looked at her. It was like, so no, yes, no, no,
1:18:21
no saying, hey, you ran that terrible.
1:18:24
But it was that. And then I remember it was a
1:18:27
couple like 20 minutes later, she was, you know, the head
1:18:30
coach was like, Hey, did you tell her she ran a race
1:18:32
terribly? I was like, no, she said, well,
1:18:34
she said that you said, and I was like, whoa, wait a second,
1:18:38
this didn't happen. So then that that also brought
1:18:40
me to, you know, that was like a pro of the meet and then a con
1:18:44
of the meet. And it was like, huh, OK, now I
1:18:47
see how this is and I, I see kind of how I got to go about
1:18:50
this. So what?
1:18:50
What did? Let's stay there for a second.
1:18:52
Let's double click in there. So what did that teach you?
1:18:55
It for one, it it taught me that taught me, Hey, make sure that
1:19:00
you not just to everything, you know, you got to like explain,
1:19:04
explain the race, explain this, this and this from because it's
1:19:08
everybody's not going to get it. You know, I was AI was a guy
1:19:11
when I ran, It's like and I finished my race, I breakdown my
1:19:13
race and my coach and then I get the feedback, you know, or what
1:19:17
I thought, and then I get I want the feedback.
1:19:20
Then I realized like, oh, everybody's not like that and
1:19:23
everybody doesn't. They want, I got to break this
1:19:26
down for you so you can see it. And then I get your feedback
1:19:30
from what you heard from me rather.
1:19:32
Than. Reverse.
1:19:33
I think that's one of the hardest things for athletes who
1:19:35
become coaches and maybe the the level of hardness goes up the
1:19:40
better an athlete. You were right.
1:19:42
Like, like I wonder, I have to ask him this one time.
1:19:44
Like I wonder about Carl Lewis, who's turned into a fantastic
1:19:47
coach and obviously was a, you know, superstar athlete.
1:19:49
I wonder how long of a transition for him of it was
1:19:53
like, oh, well, this is what worked for me, whether it's
1:19:56
communication or a workout, etcetera.
1:19:58
So it should work out like just do what I did and you'll get
1:20:00
better. I think that's the hardest part
1:20:02
of the athlete turning to a coach transition is, oh, I've
1:20:06
only dealt with myself like I've only dealt with coaches telling
1:20:09
me what to do and how did that, you know, what did I take and
1:20:12
translate that into the workout in the race.
1:20:15
I now have 2030. Whatever number of kids in front
1:20:17
of you that are all different. They're not all little Paris's.
1:20:21
They're, you know, they're, they're a lot of different
1:20:23
people and they and communication is different for
1:20:25
each one of them. How they understand things, how
1:20:28
they want to be talked to is different.
1:20:30
And that's a hard thing to learn, especially, you know, two
1:20:34
weeks in, for crying out loud, you know, into a career at this
1:20:37
point. Yeah, that's interesting.
1:20:39
Yeah. And then and so that that whole
1:20:42
indoor season was it was like a learning thing.
1:20:45
Like we, I was learning every every day, every week, you know,
1:20:50
learning from them, them learning from me.
1:20:52
And it was really much for me. Learning from them is more of
1:20:55
like, OK, this works, this doesn't work.
1:20:57
This works. This works for this person.
1:20:59
This doesn't work for everybody else.
1:21:00
This works for, you know, so I was, that's right.
1:21:02
I was learning, you know, jotting down notes, you know, in
1:21:06
school I was always the, the note taker.
1:21:08
So I was always jotting down notes, just saying, OK, this,
1:21:11
this is how I had to do, this is how I got to attack this day,
1:21:13
attack the next day, whatever it is.
1:21:16
That's also the year of COVID. So we went through the entire
1:21:20
indoor season. That was the last year that we
1:21:24
actually were in the GMAC because after that year Ashlyn
1:21:28
was coming to the G Mac, we were leaving and going to the NEC and
1:21:35
we didn't know nothing at that point in time.
1:21:37
You know, nationals comes around.
1:21:40
We don't have anybody at Nationals.
1:21:43
Head coach was like, hey, do you want them to run at a spring
1:21:45
break meet? So she actually asked me for,
1:21:46
you know, hey, do you want them to do this?
1:21:48
And I was like at the how indoor went with my my group, I said,
1:21:53
I'm going to give them time off. And then we come back and, you
1:21:55
know, unless you want to do it. And she was like, Nah, I was
1:21:57
just trying to figure out what you want to do and then we'll go
1:21:59
from there. So then we go spring break.
1:22:04
I actually went back and hung out with my grad school and my
1:22:07
friends and teammates from grad school hang out with them.
1:22:11
And it got a phone call. I asked the call like, hey,
1:22:15
Paris, good news, you know, and you still got a job.
1:22:20
Bad news. The, you know, COVID, something
1:22:25
with COVID and yadda, yadda, yadda.
1:22:27
Everybody got to leave campus there.
1:22:28
There's no more. Seats don't don't come back,
1:22:31
Yeah. So it wasn't a don't come back
1:22:33
for, you know, for me, it was more of like, hey, we got to
1:22:36
tell all the kids. We got to find out a way to tell
1:22:37
the kids like no season. So I'm sitting there, I'm on the
1:22:42
beach, I'm typing up notes on my phone like how can I put this?
1:22:45
And I kept sending it back to her.
1:22:47
And I was like, how do we you know, she was like, OK, that's
1:22:50
that works. Not so I sent the message to him
1:22:52
and she wanted me to do it cuz I had a better connection just
1:22:54
because of my age being closer. So I sent it to him, let him
1:22:57
know and they were like, oh what the heck.
1:23:00
And I finally get back to West Virginia, and little by little,
1:23:06
they're coming in, grabbing their stuff.
1:23:08
You know, COVID. We're like, what?
1:23:09
What in the world? Is that I don't.
1:23:11
I don't know. So that year goes by, the next
1:23:14
year comes, there's no indoor season the next year.
1:23:18
And the head coach was like, hey, you know, I'm going to let
1:23:21
you know this. I might not be coming back, you
1:23:24
know, after after this first semester, I might not come back.
1:23:26
And I was like, what? You mean she was like, well, I
1:23:31
just got to drive this hour to and from, you know, she said,
1:23:33
I'm not moving into Philippi. I, I live in Fairmont, WV.
1:23:36
I'm not driving my husband, my fiance, her fiance at a time,
1:23:39
her husband now he, you know, he worked at West Virginia
1:23:44
University as a nurse, you know, just like I'm not, we're not
1:23:49
moving because I just got back to West Virginia.
1:23:51
I'm not going to have, you know, and I was like, OK, I
1:23:55
understand. Then we had to set up a zoom
1:23:56
call with the team, though that Zoom call was was a crazy one
1:24:01
because she was, you know, she was explaining to people like,
1:24:04
hey, you know, I'm not coming back, you know, and they didn't,
1:24:09
you know, the team just like didn't understand it.
1:24:12
So then sex semester comes AD names me interim head coach.
1:24:16
So this is my second year of coaching, named interim head
1:24:19
coach and I'm like, what the heck, Going through everything
1:24:25
there. We still, you know, she's naming
1:24:27
interim head coach. She's like, hey, I'm naming
1:24:29
interim for the year just because we're going to do some
1:24:31
searching for other people to come in.
1:24:33
It's like, all right, cool. And I'll hold the Fort down
1:24:35
until somebody else comes in and say I still want to, I want to
1:24:38
learn from somebody else because I said I'm learning.
1:24:39
I learned from Caitlin, but I also don't think I'm ready for
1:24:42
this. So I'll learn from somebody
1:24:44
else. So we're interviewing people and
1:24:47
then it's like, I think we had three candidates on campus and
1:24:49
just didn't you know, she didn't like him.
1:24:51
You know, Andy didn't like him. She was like, Nah, I'm going to
1:24:54
do it. Saying she's like, yeah, well,
1:24:56
guess what? I'm dropping that tag.
1:24:58
You're the head coach. Wow.
1:25:00
OK, I guess. And I think I was at the point,
1:25:03
at that point, I think I was the youngest head coach in the
1:25:06
nation. Maybe where?
1:25:08
To set up my question that I was asked first time head coaches
1:25:11
before I asked that what are you doing if if anything, that's
1:25:15
fine with coaching education. And you know, for me, coaching
1:25:19
education is formal and informal.
1:25:21
Formal being like USATF level 1, Level 2, USTF CCA, Altus, things
1:25:25
like that. Informal and both of these are
1:25:27
extremely important. So I don't necessarily put one
1:25:30
above the other. Informal is mentors, people that
1:25:33
you call like, hey, I'm struggling with this form of
1:25:35
hurdler. What have you done?
1:25:36
Hey, can you take a look at this film?
1:25:38
You know, those kind of things. What are you doing at this point
1:25:40
up to up to the interim head coaching position at Alderson
1:25:44
brought us. What are you doing coaching
1:25:46
education wise? So I didn't do any formal
1:25:50
coaching education at that time and formal wise I would just, I
1:25:54
was calling all the all my old coaches.
1:25:57
That's really all I was doing was calling all my old coaches,
1:25:59
asking them for their advice for something then also.
1:26:03
Go ahead. I'm sorry.
1:26:04
Then then also the other thing is, is like, hey, was I like
1:26:06
this, you know, as a as a athlete was I like this.
1:26:09
So it was more of just talking to all of my old coaches.
1:26:13
That's fairly and. You probably weren't going to
1:26:14
convention. No, yeah, we didn't have nobody.
1:26:18
We didn't fundraise the budget for that that first year.
1:26:21
Or. That's that first or that second
1:26:25
year actually we didn't raise any money for it, so.
1:26:27
I would assume that that's, that's fair.
1:26:29
OK, so now the interim tag pulls off.
1:26:31
Now you're the, you know, you're the head honcho at a very young
1:26:34
age. You're not ready.
1:26:37
Almost nobody is ready for their first head coaching job because
1:26:39
we don't do a very good job of supporting our assistant coaches
1:26:42
to become head coaches. You didn't even have time to be
1:26:45
supported to become a a head coach.
1:26:47
You're you're so young and you know, Covid's going on, you
1:26:49
know, things like that. So AD says A tag, you're it.
1:26:54
Yeah. Exactly.
1:26:56
What's the first thing? Is there a person you called?
1:26:59
Was there a there? I assume you're a smart enough
1:27:02
guy that there had to be some like, OK, well, I need to get
1:27:05
some help here, whether it's a book, a class, a person.
1:27:09
What's one of the first things you did?
1:27:12
So the very first thing I did, I actually called well outside.
1:27:16
I called my parents and everything.
1:27:17
I called Coach Grace and I called him and I was talking to
1:27:20
him. So I think at this time he just,
1:27:23
he was promoted to director at Mount Olive during this time of
1:27:26
me being a head coach. And I'm sitting there talking to
1:27:30
him like, hey, I'm lost. How do I explain to me this,
1:27:34
this and this, you know, just to help me with this.
1:27:37
So he explained his side. Then I called Jesse Weiner.
1:27:40
He explained his he was like, well, I did leave these things
1:27:43
at the school for you, like, and they he did leave some books and
1:27:48
Coach Graves. He mailed me some books.
1:27:52
So I was doing any research I could through all the stuff that
1:27:56
they sent me. I think I got most of those
1:28:00
books right here under my table here in my living room.
1:28:02
But you know, I'm reading those books and like, all right, said
1:28:06
OK, I'm I'm back in. Yeah, that's right.
1:28:10
Yeah. And in school, that you're
1:28:13
responsible for how many kids you have on the team that that's
1:28:16
where I think most head coaches come from, a posture of like,
1:28:18
what in the world do I just get myself into?
1:28:21
Because I don't want to let them down.
1:28:23
I want them to have the best experience possible on this
1:28:26
team, whether it's, you know, running or just like just being
1:28:29
part of the team. And here I am.
1:28:30
I'm the one responsible for that.
1:28:31
I don't know what the Frick I'm doing, man.
1:28:33
Yeah, I think it comes from that, you know, you feel the
1:28:36
responsibility. Is that Daisy poking her nose
1:28:38
there? Yeah, that's her so well, yeah,
1:28:42
the other part about it is like my I didn't have an assistant at
1:28:46
this time, so it was just me and, you know, while it's just
1:28:51
me, we're just I, I how to say it.
1:28:55
I we were just dugging it, you know, we were going through it,
1:28:57
seeing how we could do right. We had a small team.
1:29:00
I think we had about, it's probably about 2020 something
1:29:05
people on the team. Probably.
1:29:06
Thank goodness. Yeah, I was.
1:29:08
I was. More people, more just stuff,
1:29:11
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:29:12
So I was actually happy. It was not too many people on
1:29:14
the team at that time. So we're making it through, you
1:29:17
know, doing what we got to do. And then I finally did hire AI,
1:29:21
hired a distance coach at some point.
1:29:23
And he was an alumni from IUP. So he, me and me and him never
1:29:28
connected. We never crossed paths.
1:29:30
We graduated the same year he left.
1:29:33
I got in there. How did you hire someone?
1:29:35
And what I mean by that is this is part of the training that
1:29:38
just never comes up in coaching, right?
1:29:41
Like, like, you know, I've said this in the past several
1:29:43
episodes here about, you know, 10 years ago when you go to a
1:29:47
tract clinic USFCA convention, you know, 80 to 90% of the talks
1:29:52
would be about how to coach a hurdler better, how to coach a
1:29:54
thrower, you know, the XS and OS part of it.
1:29:57
And 10% would be about all the rest.
1:29:59
And we're learning. I say we me through, you know,
1:30:02
talks on social media and the podcast and stuff that, you
1:30:05
know, it might be the XS and OS are the easy part.
1:30:07
And that's hard to say for a guy who was a big coach and
1:30:09
education guy. But all the other stuff is more
1:30:15
important. And one of those things that we
1:30:18
I've yet to see this as a topic and maybe we've had it at
1:30:21
convention and I just didn't see it, but I've yet to see, hey,
1:30:24
OK, first time head or whatever, first time you're going to hire
1:30:27
and fire people like the your head coach.
1:30:28
Now you're responsible for this. There's a way to properly do and
1:30:32
not do hiring. Here you are.
1:30:34
You're thrown in the middle of it.
1:30:35
I appreciate your leadership of stepping in.
1:30:37
You could have ran and you'd have told me like you'd have
1:30:39
told me like, hey, Miss AD, I'm not ready.
1:30:43
And so Mike, I left and I went and applied for this other
1:30:46
assistant job. I'd be like, I hope I get it.
1:30:48
No judgement. I get it.
1:30:49
But your leadership, you're like, OK, well, if it's going to
1:30:52
fall on my shoulders, it's going to fall on my shoulders.
1:30:53
And I may not be perfect, but I'm going to do the best I can.
1:30:56
I I appreciate that tremendously, but here so it's
1:30:59
interesting you said, OK, now I hire a distance coach.
1:31:02
You, you had no clue you knew how you had been interviewed at
1:31:05
different spots. That's all you knew.
1:31:09
How did you do it And would you have done things maybe now
1:31:12
because you're a couple years more past and have done this
1:31:14
little you know maybe and been involved more experience with
1:31:17
this stuff. Would you've done it differently
1:31:18
now? Oh yes, absolutely, absolutely.
1:31:22
So my way of doing it was I was just calling people.
1:31:26
I said, hey, y'all know a distance coach, Y'all know
1:31:28
anybody wants to coach that's distance.
1:31:31
You know, calling all my friends, calling coaches, you
1:31:33
know, and they're trying to send somebody.
1:31:36
They're like, I'll look, I'll look, I'll look.
1:31:39
And I'm like, OK. So then I went on Google and I
1:31:42
said interview questions for coaches and I just pulled that
1:31:48
and I literally went verbatim reading that to the I think I
1:31:53
had. That is a great that that is my
1:31:58
biggest fear now. I appreciate you using the
1:31:59
resources and today we maybe use ChatGPT, right, But that is
1:32:05
coaching by Google Now. Now, I'm not judging.
1:32:07
Please don't hear me say that, Paris, that's what you had in
1:32:09
front of you. But it's like, man, like my
1:32:11
heart just wants to help all these other assistant coaches
1:32:14
and first time head coaches like man, you should be taught that
1:32:18
your administration should help you with that.
1:32:20
Your if you're an assistant coach on a staff, your head
1:32:22
coach should involve you in those things.
1:32:25
Say, Hey, here's how I do it and here's how I learn.
1:32:27
Like, like these are skills that can improve and so therefore
1:32:31
need to be taught and for you to Google them like, come on, this
1:32:36
isn't a a senior year project. This is, this is another man or
1:32:39
woman's life in your hand. Like, you know, giving them an
1:32:41
assistant coaching job or not giving them an assistant
1:32:43
coaching job can dramatically affect their lives and yours by
1:32:48
the way you got to deal with them being on campus and, you
1:32:50
know, things like that. So I just, it just pains me to
1:32:53
know that, you know. This is not.
1:32:55
This is not uncommon. I guarantee you this is a story
1:32:58
told 100 times of the yeah, man, no one told me what to do.
1:33:01
They just told me to hire someone.
1:33:02
And so I was like, all right, Google, what do I ask?
1:33:05
That's crazy to me. We got to do better for our
1:33:07
coaches, is essentially what I'm getting at here.
1:33:10
So, yeah, so the one guy that everybody had mentioned to me,
1:33:16
you know, he, I guess he was an alumni from IEP.
1:33:21
He was a distance guy. He was throwing through
1:33:22
distance. So he said he wanted to do it.
1:33:26
He came over, you know, came down and he was coaching with
1:33:30
me. The thing about the assistant
1:33:32
job at Autism brought us to, it was technically part time, but
1:33:37
as we all know, coaching is never part time.
1:33:40
So he wasn't getting paid much anything.
1:33:44
I found a way to get him to live on campus, get him housing, got
1:33:48
him meals. And I was like, Hey, I'm, I'm
1:33:50
trying to do what I can to get you to the bulk of everything.
1:33:53
You know, you're not making a whole bunch of money, but it's
1:33:56
also cheap here. So, you know, he, he took that
1:33:59
whim to come in and we, you know, did what we could, you
1:34:05
know, got that conference. We, I think after he was hired
1:34:09
and everything, you know, we went through the year, you know,
1:34:11
got the conference, outdoor conference.
1:34:13
And he, I'm trying to think what his people did.
1:34:18
I think he had two people that had scored in the FAFC.
1:34:22
I believe I had somebody that scored in the, you know, high
1:34:28
jump 4 by 1. There's also a new school record
1:34:32
in the high jump, you know, so there's different people that
1:34:36
had scored, you know, and I was like, shoot, I'm a first time
1:34:38
head coach and I got people scoring.
1:34:40
I'm doing something positive. We're in a brand new conference.
1:34:44
I'm doing something positive. And then that summer he left.
1:34:50
Now the reason that he left was he was going to get his
1:34:53
doctorate. So it's like not going to be
1:34:57
upset at you for that. You know, you're going to get
1:34:58
your doctorate. I am not going to do that.
1:35:00
So he left for that. And then I had to go through
1:35:02
another hiring process. This time I did not use Google.
1:35:06
I actually asked questions. I just, I made it like a, like a
1:35:10
regular conversation 1st and then we did the, the interview
1:35:13
pieces and I, I hired this, this person.
1:35:18
She, she actually, her husband went to school with me and I did
1:35:21
not know. So her husband was actually one
1:35:24
of the baseball coaches. She actually taught at the, she
1:35:28
taught at elementary school. So she was teaching and
1:35:30
coaching. We went through that entire year
1:35:35
and she, you know, she was killing it.
1:35:37
She literally killed it. Funny enough, I coach at LR now.
1:35:43
She was at 2 schools that were in that are in this conference
1:35:47
or yeah, so she went to Limestone 1st and then she
1:35:50
transferred from Limestone to Anderson and coach Kevin Eagle.
1:35:53
That said Anderson was her coach.
1:35:56
And I had to call him to figure out like, hey, do you think
1:35:58
she'll be a good candidate? And he was like, yeah, I, you
1:36:01
know, love her, blah, blah, blah.
1:36:03
You know, so that that helped me within everything to hire her
1:36:06
for sure. Then from there we had a 800
1:36:10
champion. So she coached the 800 champion
1:36:12
on the women's side. She coached a 1500, I think 4th
1:36:17
place finish. So we're we're doing what we got
1:36:19
to do, keep this thing rolling, bringing in a bunch of kids.
1:36:23
I think that first year I was the head coach, I brought in 20
1:36:25
kids, both of them from Maryland.
1:36:29
Trying to. Bring a bunch of kids from
1:36:30
Maryland. Hey, I'm here.
1:36:31
Just come on. Up.
1:36:32
You don't want to stay in state just like me.
1:36:34
Come on. So we bring all those kids in,
1:36:38
you know, when she gets there, I think we brought, oh, I actually
1:36:42
had one kid from California as well.
1:36:44
So got Maryland kids, got a California kid, got, you know,
1:36:47
all these other kids. It's different States and we're
1:36:49
bringing in. I mean, if you're from Maryland
1:36:51
and you didn't know about Alderson brought us, what does
1:36:53
that California kid think? Of she knew nothing.
1:36:55
She knew nothing about school. You know, she, she told me, hey
1:36:59
coach, only reason I came was because you had a good
1:37:04
connection me and you had a good connection and then you had a
1:37:06
good connection with my mom, so. Amazing how that's fine.
1:37:09
I hear that story. That's cool.
1:37:10
Hey, in the essence of time, Paris, let's move forward just a
1:37:13
little bit here. So how long were you at Alderson
1:37:15
brought us and why do you leave and where do you go?
1:37:18
So I was there for from 19 to 23 to summer of 23.
1:37:24
Yeah, I have to say the summer of 23 because the school ended
1:37:26
up shutting down. Yeah.
1:37:29
You're kind of you're kind of a curse.
1:37:31
I'm finding out. Miami.
1:37:32
I just kidding. I'm just kidding.
1:37:34
I'm just kidding. Yeah, the school end up shutting
1:37:36
down. We found out probably a week
1:37:38
before football moved in. Any.
1:37:40
Any. Like when you look back now,
1:37:42
like indicators like oh. Boy, I mean, you could see some,
1:37:46
but also in the in the sport world, you know, we didn't see
1:37:49
much of that at all. Like it was like, yes, but also
1:37:52
no. But yeah, so that that kind of
1:37:57
happened. Absolutely sad.
1:37:58
Sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:38:00
So it was a sad time. I mean, it's one thing and I'm
1:38:03
not sure what's worse, to be honest with you.
1:38:05
When a program gets cut or a school closes down, the school
1:38:10
closing down has to be worse because it affects more people.
1:38:12
Even though, you know, my focus is on tracks.
1:38:14
I'm always concerned about my track people and coaches.
1:38:16
But I mean, I mean, who goes through that?
1:38:20
I mean, no one air quotes here, Thank God goes through getting
1:38:23
the program dropped, meaning it does not happen a lot.
1:38:26
I know we love to tell the Chicken Little story that we're
1:38:29
cutting programs left and right. That's just not true, thank
1:38:31
goodness. But we do have programs that
1:38:32
cut. I get them taking that down.
1:38:35
Schools closing down just doesn't have, I mean, again, we
1:38:37
hear of one story, one school here and there.
1:38:39
So it does happen, but not again and regularly.
1:38:42
Most people are going to go through their entire career and
1:38:44
their school is not going to close down, right?
1:38:46
That's that has to be a little surreal.
1:38:48
Like what do you mean the schools?
1:38:49
What school closes? What are you talking about?
1:38:51
We're closing. That's kind of crazy.
1:38:53
Yeah. So everybody there was, I'm
1:38:55
confused, you know, I'm getting phone calls out the wazoo from
1:38:58
the team and I'm like, what does that mean?
1:39:00
I said, hey, I'm going to put y'all on a Zoom call.
1:39:02
So I'm not answering one call at a time.
1:39:05
So I'd actually, I think I did the Zoom call that very next day
1:39:08
after we found out. So it's August 4th, I found out
1:39:10
August 5th, I had the Zoom call. Then I get a random, and I mean
1:39:18
super, super random Facebook message by a guy I don't think
1:39:22
I've ever talked to, but I had him on Facebook, Kevin
1:39:26
Patterson. So KP, you know, he had a he had
1:39:31
one of these, one of these Gil talks, you know, so he's.
1:39:34
A podcast alone? That's right.
1:39:36
So he when I talked to he, he randomly sent me a message.
1:39:40
I get messages from other coaches, like hell yeah, I see
1:39:43
this person. This person is asking about the
1:39:44
kids. He actually called me about me.
1:39:47
He sent me a message about me. And he said, hey, can I get you
1:39:50
on a phone call tomorrow? I said, yeah, let me do.
1:39:52
I said, let me check my schedule.
1:39:55
I didn't have anything on my schedule except for talking to
1:39:57
the team. And then I got on a call with
1:40:02
him. We were talking.
1:40:03
He was like, hey man, I'm sorry to hear all that.
1:40:05
You know, it was just, it was surprising to me that it
1:40:07
happened because he said I saw, did you have one of these guys?
1:40:10
I was, you know, almost at nationals, you know, I saw y'all
1:40:12
at Lee and I was like, oh, y'all at Lee.
1:40:15
And then he was like, you also went to Mount Olive that same
1:40:18
that next day and I was like, how you know, OK, I guess you
1:40:22
can really look this up. So you know we're talking about
1:40:23
this. And he's like, hey, you want to
1:40:26
come down here to, you know, he said, you know, I know you're
1:40:29
probably, you know, I don't know if you are or not, but looking
1:40:31
for a job, you know, I got an opening, you know, you want to
1:40:34
come down here. And I was like, yeah, he said,
1:40:35
what you doing on Thursday? You know, so literally a couple
1:40:38
days, four days, three days later, he's like, you want to
1:40:40
come down? So I said, yeah, I drive down.
1:40:45
You know, it wasn't too far. It was a three hour drive, 3 1/2
1:40:47
hour drive, drive down, meet him for dinner the day before, you
1:40:50
know, we're chatting it up. Then I go to my interview the
1:40:54
next day and I loved it. You know, he brought me around.
1:40:56
I saw a track on campus and I said you don't got to tell me
1:41:01
anything else. You don't need much, Paris.
1:41:03
I love this. You don't got to tell me
1:41:05
anything else. I already did my research on the
1:41:07
team. I saw who was on the team.
1:41:09
I saw, well, at least who was on the team that year prior, and I
1:41:12
was like, this seems amazing, you know, So going through that,
1:41:18
you know, before I left after our interview, I looked and I
1:41:21
said, I ain't leaving it until, you know, you let me sign
1:41:25
something. And he was like, Oh no, I'm
1:41:27
offering you the job, but I can't do anything right.
1:41:30
Now, yeah, I don't have anything to sign.
1:41:31
I'm not HR. Yeah, yeah.
1:41:32
So I was like, I was like, OK, so I leave.
1:41:35
I go back home, you know, I let my roommate know, you know, and
1:41:39
my roommate was the women's basketball coach at the time and
1:41:42
me and him, you know, we went to college together.
1:41:43
We went to office and brothers together.
1:41:45
So I'm letting him know. I was like, hey, I think I
1:41:47
offered a job at LR. He was like, dude, LR is a
1:41:51
goldmine. And I was like, and he's a big
1:41:55
sports junk. He knows you asked him any
1:41:57
school, he knows it. He knows the history behind it.
1:42:00
So you know, me and him talking and he was like, that's an
1:42:03
amazing place. So the time goes on.
1:42:06
I ended up coming to LR and once my feet got set here, I was
1:42:11
working. They went off, you know?
1:42:13
So I'm working, I'm not really doing anything else.
1:42:14
I'm not exploring the campus, I'm not exploring the town.
1:42:17
I'm working and I'm enjoying it though, you know, it's not like
1:42:20
I'm working and hating it. I'm working.
1:42:22
I'm enjoying every second. I was able to watch.
1:42:27
Well, I watched it online because I didn't go to nationals
1:42:31
indoor. I was able to watch online, you
1:42:33
know, you know, Alexis Brown win, you know, a national
1:42:36
championship couple of and I was like, look at that.
1:42:40
And this girl, I see her every single day.
1:42:41
I might not coach her directly, but I see her every single.
1:42:44
I'll talk to her every day, you know, and then Fast forward, we
1:42:47
get to outdoor. We got people qualify for
1:42:51
nationals. You know, multiple people
1:42:54
qualify for nationals and I have my first, a couple people that
1:42:57
qualify that are in and I was like, shoot, I've coached
1:43:00
somebody that qualified. I I've qualified myself, but I
1:43:03
just didn't make it for only athlete that I coached that
1:43:06
qualified. He didn't make it.
1:43:07
Now I got these athletes that made it.
1:43:09
So that's cool. You know, it's like I'm seeing
1:43:12
everything. I'm happy.
1:43:14
I'm super happy. So then we get a nationals.
1:43:17
I have a, you know, a podium finisher in foreign hurdles.
1:43:19
I have somebody just missed the podium in the in the decathlon
1:43:24
and then my 100 hurdler, she just missed it as well.
1:43:28
She didn't run much of the year, you know, and made it to
1:43:31
national. So then also I saw three or two
1:43:35
national championships that day as well.
1:43:38
And how many years have you been at LR now?
1:43:40
This is my second year and I'm getting into that part.
1:43:44
OK, keep going, keep going. Keep.
1:43:45
Going so this summer happens and Kevin, you know, he let us know.
1:43:51
It's like, hey, you know, I'm you know, he came to campus and
1:43:54
he let us know like, hey, I took this job at Central Missouri.
1:43:58
Then he looked at me as like Paris.
1:43:59
I'm telling them to, you know, you're the only person that is
1:44:03
for the job. He said.
1:44:04
You've done what you need to do. You've been a head coach before.
1:44:07
You got thrown into the fire as a head coach, and you did well,
1:44:09
you know, you can recruit, You can do all these things.
1:44:12
And, you know, he's talking to me about it and he's talking me
1:44:14
up, you know, talking me up to myself.
1:44:15
And I'm like, and you don't need to make my head any bigger.
1:44:17
He's like, yeah. That's right.
1:44:19
You're a genius, you know. So, so our athletic director at
1:44:24
the time, she, you know, still took me through the interview
1:44:28
process and then promoted me to interim head coach.
1:44:32
So for me now it's hey, we need a distance coach.
1:44:36
Hey, we need a throws coach. Hey, we need a person to replace
1:44:39
Coach Patterson. So we, I had to hire three
1:44:43
people. So one of which I already knew
1:44:47
who I was going to, you know, bring in.
1:44:49
I called again, I called my, my handy dandy who I'm going to
1:44:53
call Coach Graves. I called him and was like, Hey,
1:44:56
do you have a thrower that just graduated that wants to be Aga,
1:44:59
get into the profession and kind of work through some things and
1:45:02
then also stay in North Carolina and work with me.
1:45:05
He was like, yeah, I might have somebody.
1:45:07
So he actually, he couldn't find exactly who.
1:45:11
So he called Coach Potter, that's also there.
1:45:14
And Coach Potter's the throws coach.
1:45:16
He sent me. Podcast alone.
1:45:19
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
1:45:20
And he sent me the guy. So you get Dorian Tober that
1:45:23
comes in just fresh grad. And I was like, hey, you know,
1:45:26
I'm talking to him like, hey, let's, let's make this work.
1:45:29
And then there's two others that I hired, one of which who's been
1:45:33
coaching for a while, actually went to school with one of my
1:45:36
sisters, but didn't know. He went to school with one of my
1:45:39
sisters and I didn't know until later.
1:45:41
And then a guy that I competed against in college, you know, I
1:45:47
hired him as our quarter mile coach pretty much.
1:45:51
So now we have a full staff. We're going through everything
1:45:54
we need to go through and you know, just kicking it through
1:45:58
the season, you know, indoor, we saw a very successful indoor and
1:46:04
you know, we've seen national champion and national records.
1:46:08
Being broken. I saw you there.
1:46:13
You know, in this outdoor season, we've been, I mean,
1:46:15
we've been having a, we've been having a time.
1:46:17
How I say that? Yeah, you're doing time, doing
1:46:20
good brings us to today. So again, brings us back to
1:46:25
today. And so for the next, you know,
1:46:27
5-10 minutes here, Paris. And first of all, pause.
1:46:30
I don't want to diminish. You're doing a great job.
1:46:32
You know, when you became the interim, I think I was, I don't
1:46:35
know if I was the first person, I won't make that claim, but I
1:46:37
know I immediately reached out was like, hey, all right, so now
1:46:39
what do we do to erase the interim tag?
1:46:42
You are probably, I want to say you probably might have been
1:46:44
number. You were the top three people.
1:46:47
Yeah, this is always like me. Cool, because intern to me is
1:46:52
it's flu. There's not like I can't build
1:46:54
roots with interns. I'm always like, well, get one
1:46:56
way or the other, get rid of the intern tag, meaning, you know,
1:46:58
become the head coach. Like how do we make that happen
1:47:00
or go somewhere else like you can't it's just that that's the
1:47:03
flu. I would never sign with a coach
1:47:05
who was an intern tag personally, personally, because
1:47:08
I'm like, well, you may not be here like I and you understand
1:47:11
that you know, you can't tell me you're gonna be here.
1:47:12
You know what I'm saying? So it's like all right, so how
1:47:13
do we bust butt and and prove that you're the guy?
1:47:16
You should be the head coach, not the intern.
1:47:18
So so I appreciate that and just don't want to gloss over because
1:47:21
I'm speeding up here just a little bit, a good of a job
1:47:24
you've done and just really appreciate that.
1:47:26
And and we get kind of a little bit of insight to that on the
1:47:28
other side of Kevin Patterson's side of the whole thing too.
1:47:31
And if you're interested in that, you got to go listen to
1:47:34
his episode. What I'm interested to talk here
1:47:36
to the last few minutes here. Paris.
1:47:39
So I have this guy and I'm not going to call out names, but
1:47:41
I've got a guy who, you know, follows me on Twitter Creek.
1:47:45
I mean, like track nerd, you know, in all the positive ways,
1:47:49
and specifically HBCU track nerd.
1:47:53
And, you know, there's been a couple of things.
1:47:55
I'm a very positive person. So I love when people are
1:47:57
positive and positive about track and field and things like
1:47:59
that. So, you know, he'll, he'll tell
1:48:01
me like, oh, do you see so and so at Alabama State and like,
1:48:03
yeah, man, they do a great job, you know, blah, blah, blah.
1:48:04
They do good, you know, and so and so at this university, I'm
1:48:07
like, Oh yeah, that's so cool. You know, it's great to see
1:48:09
that. And he's made a couple of
1:48:11
comments and and and I'm just using him as an example because
1:48:14
other people have inadvertently or advert or advert or on
1:48:19
purpose have made this guy. I went to school in Alabama,
1:48:22
bro, these big, big vocabulary words for me here.
1:48:25
But he's made a comment like, Oh, such and such is running
1:48:29
real well. Boy, I wish he would transfer to
1:48:31
Howard with DO and how good would he get?
1:48:35
Or I wish he would transfer to Alan at NCA and T and and see
1:48:40
how good he would be. And I'm like, and, and you know,
1:48:43
Dio and Alan, good friends love those guys.
1:48:45
I mean, come on, I'm a come on, we're hurdlers.
1:48:47
They're in our they're, they're us, right.
1:48:50
It's it's a joke for me to call myself a hurdler so terrible.
1:48:52
But I but I, I identify as a hurdler.
1:48:55
I love the hurdles. It's the best event in the
1:48:56
world. And so this is not shade at Dio
1:48:59
and Alan. It what I don't think that
1:49:01
person understands is they're throwing shade at their at that
1:49:05
person's current coach. It's like, wait, that that kid
1:49:07
runs so fast or jumps so far, whatever the event is, that
1:49:11
coach has done that, whatever school they're at.
1:49:13
What do you mean go to DO? And he'll be like, you're
1:49:16
throwing shade on that coat. What are you talking about?
1:49:18
And maybe they will, I don't know, but they certainly don't
1:49:20
seem to be needing to leave. They're they're running stupid
1:49:23
fast like they're qualified for nationals.
1:49:24
What do you mean they should go somewhere else?
1:49:27
And and that's amongst the HBCU world.
1:49:29
We have the same in society thought process a lot with D1
1:49:36
versus D2 and inside of D1 even, you know, a kid runs fast at,
1:49:40
you know, my alma mater, Troy University.
1:49:41
It's like, well, that imagine what that kid could run if they
1:49:45
went to LSU or something. It's like, what do you mean?
1:49:47
Maybe slower, by the way? And that's not cheated tennis.
1:49:49
He's a great coach, but it's like what what do you meet?
1:49:52
Like they're they're they're being successful exactly where
1:49:54
they're at. Why in the world is the
1:49:57
automatic thought well, gosh, if they were at a big school and so
1:50:00
at a school, I'm always interested in these schools.
1:50:03
Like for you, you're at the division two school doing a
1:50:05
great job killing it. Like I said, national, I mean
1:50:08
really fast. Like how do we like what's your
1:50:11
I'm not sure really what the question I want to ask here,
1:50:14
Paris. It's more of a statement of
1:50:16
like, they're doing a great job, but I just don't understand why
1:50:19
people will say that, like with this whole roster spots and
1:50:25
stuff that oh, this is going to limit people's ability, their
1:50:28
opportunities. And I'm like, OK, so if a kid
1:50:31
grew up in Louisiana and always dreamed of going to LSU, maybe
1:50:34
they can't go to LSU. Now they're running 10/20, 10:30
1:50:36
and that's not good enough on a 45 man roster.
1:50:39
I don't know if that's actually going to be true.
1:50:40
Actually, they'd be a 35 because they're in SEC, right?
1:50:43
That doesn't limit that person's potential.
1:50:46
They can go to your school, they go to Lenore Ryan.
1:50:48
They've got a great coach at Lenore Ryan like that.
1:50:50
That's what I mean. It's like you're going to take a
1:50:51
10/30, 10:20 kid. You know what I'm saying?
1:50:53
Like, yeah, right, That's right. I just don't understand.
1:50:55
It's like, man, we have all these great coaches in junior
1:50:58
college, NAIAD, 3D2, non power 5, power 4 Division One.
1:51:03
We're not limiting opportunities.
1:51:05
You have an opportunity for kids right there at LR.
1:51:10
Like, how do you? So I don't really have a
1:51:11
question here. Parents, this is more of a
1:51:12
conversation. This is the awkward part of the
1:51:14
podcast, everybody. I'm wondering, how do you like
1:51:17
sitting in your seat? How do you deal with that stuff?
1:51:22
How do you recruit? How do you leave some
1:51:25
distractions out? How do you fight poachers?
1:51:29
I don't know if that's the right.
1:51:30
That's not a great term because I'm calling a coach a poacher if
1:51:32
I say that. So I don't want to call it that.
1:51:35
How do you just handle all this stuff in today's NCAA world?
1:51:40
Well, it's, it's, it is a, like you said, it's a, it's a tough
1:51:44
thing and it's a, it's a challenge here and there.
1:51:48
But also at the same time it's, you know, it's really just, it
1:51:53
lets you know that you're doing something well.
1:51:54
Right. That's a great.
1:51:56
Point that's a that that's the one thing I like to always look
1:51:58
at is, you know, when somebody's a lot of people, a lot of times
1:52:02
when people are doing well, they, you know, a lot of other
1:52:04
people will want to have that same success with the same
1:52:07
person. And I mean, I know from
1:52:10
experience that hey, just because this person's running
1:52:13
fast at this place doesn't mean if I get them, they're going to
1:52:15
run fast with me. You know, look at the training.
1:52:19
Training is always, always a big thing for everybody.
1:52:21
But also just seeing that, you know, people have eyes on, you
1:52:26
know, the program saying, Oh, well, I see this person's
1:52:28
running this there and, you know, and then whenever I
1:52:32
recruit, it's more of a, hey, this person came here, they
1:52:36
weren't running this, they're running these times.
1:52:39
This is where they're at, you know, so that that's really what
1:52:43
I do. I mean, recruiting wise, I try
1:52:44
to do that, but you know, I know that just like Once Upon a time,
1:52:47
I was doing the same thing where I was like, oh, D1, I want to go
1:52:50
there. You know, a lot of kids do the
1:52:52
same thing. And you know, like, like you was
1:52:55
talking about the roster limits and, and all that coming on and
1:52:59
it's it's going to be it's it's going to be big for a lot of.
1:53:04
Have you seen anything today? It's we're recording this in May
1:53:08
of 2025. Have you seen anything today?
1:53:11
Because I, I, I'm such a believer that all the best
1:53:15
coaches are not in power for and what I mean by that, they're
1:53:17
great coaches. Again, I, you know, I love and
1:53:19
know all of those guys and gals, right?
1:53:21
But what I'm saying is there are amazing coaches in D3, a vast
1:53:25
majority. There are a lot of good coaches
1:53:27
in D3D2 NEIA Junior College. And so like I just like I don't,
1:53:32
I don't think a kid is going to be harmed because they can't
1:53:34
walk on or get book scholarship at Mississippi State or Alabama
1:53:39
or Florida. They can still go to Emory
1:53:42
Riddle, Emory LR. Like there's great coaches each
1:53:47
one of those places. Have you seen today because we
1:53:50
they've done some roster cuts even though we don't have a
1:53:52
finalization on this whole house versus NCAA thing.
1:53:54
There have been roster cuts. So the, the transfer portal is
1:53:58
boom. People thought the transfer
1:53:59
portal was big last year and the year before.
1:54:01
I mean, it's just a big blimp. There's a ton of kids in there,
1:54:03
right? Have you started seeing, I hate
1:54:07
to call it the trickle down effect, but you know what I'm
1:54:09
saying when I say that? Have you started seeing like, oh
1:54:11
man, I have a little bit better kids interested in US?
1:54:14
Yeah, I have. I mean, and, and then also
1:54:16
whenever you look, I mean, like you said, it's may whenever you
1:54:18
look at the, the, the top 10 list in, you know, in on T
1:54:25
first, you know, you look at it, you're like, wow, you know, D2
1:54:28
was not like this three years ago, four years ago.
1:54:31
And and that's a, and it's a, it's a thing from 1.
1:54:36
You know, some of those kids that are at those division ones
1:54:38
that are coming down to Division 2 or some of those D3 kids that
1:54:41
are coming up, some of those NAI kids coming over to D2.
1:54:43
But also it's from just the coaching, you know, in the, you
1:54:47
know, in D2, you know, it's like you say, there's a bunch of
1:54:49
great coaches in D2, you know, and it's.
1:54:53
Go look at nationals, that'll prove it right there.
1:54:55
And it's, it's one thing that, you know, as a, as a Division 2
1:54:57
coach, you know, and I've been at, you know, 2 schools where
1:55:00
I've been like actually on the staff that I can say, you know,
1:55:04
I've, I've had to say it a bunch of times.
1:55:05
The kids like you don't have to just go one place because even
1:55:10
some of those Division One schools and those coaches will
1:55:12
tell you, hey, go here because you can get something from
1:55:16
there. But also it's it doesn't suck.
1:55:19
It's not like it sucks. You know, I, I don't think
1:55:22
there's a single division that you can say, Oh, that sucks.
1:55:25
So that's not good. I mean, shoot, we just had a you
1:55:28
just had I think it was last week the D3 kid and and long and
1:55:32
wait long job. Yeah, he's the nation.
1:55:34
Or at least. Yeah, he led the nation for He
1:55:37
led it for a week. I'll give him that for the week.
1:55:40
You know what, I appreciate what I'm here for you.
1:55:42
So we've been having this conversation a lot on the
1:55:44
podcast, right? Because it's the, you know, it's
1:55:45
kind of current events, if you will, What I don't hear you
1:55:48
saying, and I appreciate you for this.
1:55:50
Like this, this just shows me more character and leadership
1:55:52
and maybe optimism. I'm not here.
1:55:55
And you say, yeah, you know what, Mike, it sucks.
1:55:57
People are coming and getting our best kids and by it's
1:55:59
happening all the time. We're basically just a a junior
1:56:02
college now at this point, blah, blah, blah, blah.
1:56:05
Because you know, I've had some coaches remark that to me and,
1:56:08
you know, social media and things like that.
1:56:09
And I'm like, well, that can't be true.
1:56:10
Because to your point about how good D2 is, go look at the
1:56:13
national championship. It's still it's better every
1:56:17
year. And I see plenty of seniors on
1:56:19
that group. There are plenty of kids that
1:56:21
ran as stupid fast as a sophomore junior that air quotes
1:56:24
here could have transferred like ADAD.
1:56:27
One school would have taken them no brainer and they they stayed
1:56:30
at LR and other, you know, in this case D2 schools, you know
1:56:33
what I'm saying, grand valleys, etcetera.
1:56:35
So it's not happening all the time.
1:56:38
I just think we like to, we like to talk about the negative a
1:56:42
lot. And so it does happen.
1:56:43
And a high profile kid leaves, it's always like, yeah, that's
1:56:46
what happens. Those those power for schools,
1:56:50
they just come and put. And it's like now that doesn't
1:56:51
happen all the time. It happens, but does not happen
1:56:54
all the time. And you still have the ability.
1:56:57
You can only control what you control.
1:56:58
So you can you can only control what's in front of you at LR.
1:57:01
So I just appreciate your attitude of like, yeah, you know
1:57:04
what, continue recruiting and continue coaching and chips will
1:57:07
fall where they may, but we're going to be fast at those
1:57:09
falling chips, if you will. Yeah.
1:57:11
And it's and it's it's a thing that you got to kind of get with
1:57:14
the times kind of thing. You know it, it's the transport
1:57:16
is a thing now. So like I said earlier, it
1:57:21
wasn't a thing when I was when I was in school and I, and it's
1:57:24
not like I'm, you know, I'm super, oh, I'm, I'm 29, right.
1:57:28
And transporter was not a thing then, you know, if you wanted to
1:57:31
transfer it as a whole, another process that you had to go
1:57:33
through. But nowadays you can get in a
1:57:35
transporter, but a lot of kids just they, they either stay for
1:57:38
the school, stay at the school. Most kids will stay at school
1:57:41
for their coach or, you know, I mean, I, it's not rare, but it's
1:57:48
more often than not that you'll see a kid stay at a school for
1:57:52
their coaches or, you know, it's not many times that you will
1:57:56
see. Oh yeah, I'm standing for the
1:57:58
school. Yeah, it's still the minority
1:58:02
that transfers, meaning it's not over 50% of kids are
1:58:05
transferring. This is still a, you know, a.
1:58:08
Real minuscule. Maybe.
1:58:09
Maybe not minuscule, Yeah, because maybe not this small.
1:58:11
Maybe, you know, now it's this big, but it's still not like I,
1:58:14
I wish I actually knew the numbers.
1:58:16
Like, is it 30 percent, 25 percent, 20%?
1:58:18
Like, you know, and I'm very, you know, there's no one bigger
1:58:22
pro coach than than me, But I'm also very pro athlete in the
1:58:25
sense of like, man, if they want to transfer because there's a
1:58:28
million reasons why they transfer and not all of them are
1:58:31
because it's a big name school. It could be closer to home.
1:58:34
I need more financial aid. I don't know.
1:58:37
It doesn't matter. I've had a bad experience at the
1:58:38
school, not because of the school, because of their student
1:58:41
body and things like that. So let them transfer.
1:58:43
I just don't think you should be punished for that.
1:58:45
That's, that's my key where, where you are, you know, if you,
1:58:47
if all your kids transfer out this year and it's like, well,
1:58:49
we just went to last in conference, they're going to
1:58:51
come to you and be like, well, parents, what the heck.
1:58:53
And it's like, well, bro, they all left.
1:58:56
I can't control that. That's where you should.
1:58:57
I don't feel like a coach should be punished for for that aspect
1:59:01
of it either. Yeah, and and I'm a big I'm a
1:59:04
big advocate. Like like you said, I'm a I'm a
1:59:05
I'm a pro, I'm a pro athlete person.
1:59:07
So if you if you're especially like, depending on the reason
1:59:12
behind it, you know, hey, coach, I want to leave for XYZ.
1:59:16
This is that a third. Like I'm not going to be upset
1:59:18
at somebody for, you know, wanting to do that.
1:59:20
You know, Hey, you did your time at the school and this is the
1:59:23
reasoning behind wanting to leave.
1:59:24
I'm not going to I'm not going to push you out the door, but
1:59:27
also I'm not going to say, Oh, you can't leave.
1:59:30
You know, I'm not I'm not going to do any of those things.
1:59:31
So I'm I'm more so want to I want to see people succeed.
1:59:34
You know, I tell all my athletes that all the time.
1:59:37
You know, I tell them when they won, hey, I want to see, see, I
1:59:40
want to see you graduate from here 4 years or two or one,
1:59:42
whatever, whenever you come in. But if it's not, if here is not
1:59:47
the place for you, right? I'm not going to sit there and
1:59:49
say. You know, you know, that's funny
1:59:52
Paris, because I think every coach or at least 99.9%, if I
1:59:55
said, hey, do you do it for the kids?
1:59:56
Would say, yeah, I do it for the kids.
1:59:57
That's why I coach. I love helping young people, you
2:00:00
know, go through school and get better athletically and things
2:00:02
like that. And then, you know, a kid will
2:00:04
say, well, I need to transfer. I want to transfer because I
2:00:07
think that'll be a better situation for me.
2:00:08
It's like, well, wait a minute, I've I've poured so much into
2:00:11
you. It's like, oh, I thought it was
2:00:12
for the, the kids. Coach what?
2:00:13
Like no matter what, no matter if you agree or disagree with
2:00:16
their decision. You should be helping like so.
2:00:18
I appreciate you living out that.
2:00:20
Yeah, it's for the kids, man. Again, I'd rather you be here in
2:00:22
LR and graduate here. But, you know, if this is not
2:00:24
the right place, we'll be OK. Well, I'm not going to get in
2:00:28
your way. Yeah, I appreciate that.
2:00:29
All right, Paris, take us out here in the last couple minutes
2:00:34
as we wrap up. You know, you've got.
2:00:36
We're still got outdoors in front of us when we're recording
2:00:39
this. It's literally next week.
2:00:40
I'm already my plane tickets booked.
2:00:42
I'm ready, buddy. I know yours is, too.
2:00:43
I'm excited. I like Pablo.
2:00:45
I think it's a cool, cool stadium that they have for
2:00:48
nationals there. So I'm excited to go back there.
2:00:50
But as you look long term, you know, I know we're you still got
2:00:53
to finish out the 25 season, but as you start looking at
2:00:56
26273035, you start just kind of looking at the future.
2:00:59
What's got you excited about LR, about your career?
2:01:02
What's what's you know, you're positive, dude.
2:01:04
That's why I love you but love about you.
2:01:05
What's got you excited here in the near future?
2:01:08
Well, I mean, the recruiting class that we got coming in, you
2:01:12
know, it's it's it's one that I'm I'm very excited about.
2:01:18
I'm very excited about it. But then also outside of just
2:01:21
the recruiting class, just the people that we have coming back,
2:01:23
right, You know, a lot of growth this year.
2:01:26
So I'm, you know, even the one we got a bunch that have made
2:01:30
nationals right now, they're going to that they're, you know,
2:01:33
we just actually had a practice at noon today and going from
2:01:37
them to, you know, when they come back next year, it's like
2:01:39
I'm, I'm super excited for it. And then the people that we, the
2:01:42
pieces that we have coming in next year, it's only going to,
2:01:45
you know, help elevate where the program is.
2:01:48
Like I said, I mentioned Kevin Patterson, he started something
2:01:50
special and I told him the one thing that I, if I do anything,
2:01:54
I'm going to keep what he had going and try to elevate it just
2:01:58
a 1% more. You know, let's try to do 10%
2:02:01
more, but you know, I'm going to try to elevate what he has done
2:02:03
already because he, he pretty much found that base and I'm
2:02:06
just trying to, you know, execute whatever that was and
2:02:09
keep going forward. So that's.
2:02:10
Cool, Well, I'm excited for you, man.
2:02:12
You know, you're one of the people I really like enjoy
2:02:17
seeing and having conversations and just kind of, you know,
2:02:19
shooting the crap about what's going on and the track meeting
2:02:22
you get. You guys just do a fantastic job
2:02:24
there. You and all of D2 it's that's
2:02:28
why I just keep beating the horn when people talk about these
2:02:31
caps are going to limit opportunities and I'm just like
2:02:35
that. Just if you believe that then
2:02:39
you are putting down the mid majors of DV1D2D3 like you're
2:02:44
saying only these what is it 68 schools have have the right
2:02:48
coaches. I mean, that's ludicrous,
2:02:52
ludicrous, especially when you go and look, go look at the last
2:02:56
Olympics, many, many, many Olympians not from their
2:02:59
schools, many, many Olympians from D2D3, NAIA, junior college,
2:03:03
etcetera. So I will just continue to
2:03:06
defend and love on and advocate for coaches of all levels
2:03:10
because there's some bangers. A lot of you guys are in gals
2:03:13
are just bangers, high school coaches, club coaches, just
2:03:17
quite amazing what the level of, of coaching in America is for
2:03:21
track and field right now. And you're, you're, you're a
2:03:23
part of that pair. So I'm just so grateful, man, So
2:03:24
grateful for your time today. I know it was a chill day and so
2:03:27
hopefully this hopefully didn't stress you out.
2:03:29
You were a cool con. You're a Q con everybody, but
2:03:32
it's really, really grateful for you and being here again.
2:03:36
Most expensive thing you can give me is your time.
2:03:37
And you know, like I said, you're going to nationals next
2:03:39
week. So you're, you're busy.
2:03:41
You're, you're watching the, the Internet, the Teefers and
2:03:43
everything. I I get it.
2:03:44
And so I'm just so grateful for you, man, and really, really
2:03:47
appreciate you being here today. And I appreciate you and thank
2:03:50
you for having me on. Like you said before, I've been
2:03:54
asking for this for a while. I've been asking for it for a
2:03:56
while. Yeah, well, I'm grateful for
2:03:58
you, man, and we'll continue this train.
2:04:00
There's a lot of people in your circle that are gonna be on this
2:04:03
podcast one day, but I think your story is super unique.
2:04:08
And I think people will gain something like there's something
2:04:12
to learn from your story that's going to help someone that's
2:04:14
listening right now. Or, you know, this is Evergreen,
2:04:16
right? Someone's going to listen to
2:04:17
this in 20-30 right now and they're going to gain something
2:04:19
from this and it's going to help them.
2:04:20
And that's, that's how legacy is built.
2:04:22
And I think that's what you're, that's what you're building, my
2:04:24
friend. Absolutely.
2:04:26
Awesome man. Well, Paris, thank you again for
2:04:27
being here today. You guys and gals, thank you
2:04:29
again so much again, it just humbles me.
2:04:32
You know, we talked about being humble earlier.
2:04:34
Just humbles me that you continue to press play day after
2:04:36
day now because it's a daily podcast.
2:04:38
And so I'm just so grateful for you being here today.
2:04:41
We're going to continue this train rolling.
2:04:42
Please tune in tomorrow, you know, Tuesday through Sunday.
2:04:45
We do the Gill 1918 project. Please, please, please.
2:04:48
This is by coaches for coaches. So hit me up to be on the Gill
2:04:52
1918 project. Your voice matters.
2:04:55
We've had some just awesome, awesome, awesome 10 minute to 30
2:04:59
minute podcast on the Yelling Tunisian project.
2:05:01
It's amazing and it's going to really help you to continue
2:05:04
honing your voice, honing your thoughts, your process of
2:05:07
coaching and culture and recruiting and those kind of
2:05:11
topics. Again, we're just creating the
2:05:12
Ted talks of the track and field podcast world.
2:05:15
And so I just want I want you to be involved.
2:05:16
So hit me up on DM, Twitter, e-mail, text, smoke signals, you
2:05:21
know, Paris, ask him, he's got my number.
2:05:23
Whatever. Just get a hold of me and let's
2:05:26
let's work that out for you. So thanks again for being here.
2:05:28
Join us next week and tomorrow and we'll do it all over again.
2:05:30
Thanks guys. The goals to appreciate the
2:05:37
coach, the ones that point people most every season needs a
2:05:40
voice of reason speaking the growth you got to prep before
2:05:43
you carry the load. Ice coffee to the soul.
2:05:45
For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
2:05:48
zone which you packing for the road.
2:05:50
There's more than one way to go. Taking notes that's paying
2:05:53
you're told it ain't practice. It's your purpose.
2:05:55
Saint Clair. It can't happen until you listen
2:05:57
with both is you can't mentor without a mentor his of
2:06:00
experience. You can reinvent those years.
2:06:03
Every plan's got to stand and deliver to and the price
2:06:06
sacrifice can you give up you. It's a choice and a fight, not a
2:06:09
win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
2:06:11
Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to, it's all
2:06:14
about why you don't know till you know who you are inside
2:06:18
6,000,000. Waste of time, choose none.
2:06:20
So y'all cross finish line. The work ain't done so we learn
2:06:23
from the experts but y'all got to put in the network.
2:06:26
Your athletics is the network. It's all about connections put
2:06:29
together for the profession to where every track coach could be
2:06:32
the blessing.