Latest / The Infographics Show Podcast / Trump, Musk, and the H-1B Visa Feud

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Trump, Musk, and the H-1B Visa Feud · The Infographics Show Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back everybody for another deep dive. And
0:13
Speaker 1: today we're going to be looking at something that's been
0:15
Speaker 1: in the news quite a bit lately, the H one
0:17
Speaker 1: B visa program, which you know, it's something that we
0:22
Speaker 1: hear about all the time. Yeah, but there's a little
0:25
Speaker 1: bit of a twist to this one. And this is
0:29
Speaker 1: surrounding Donald Trump and his stance on this issue, and
0:36
Speaker 1: it's gotten a lot of people talking, especially some of
0:39
Speaker 1: the people in his circle. Yeah, and also one Elon
0:44
Speaker 1: Musk Oh wow, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:47
Speaker 2: Interesting.
0:47
Speaker 1: So we're gonna be looking at an article from The
0:49
Speaker 1: New York Post from December twenty one, twenty twenty four,
0:53
Speaker 1: called Trump's H one B flip flop, and we're also
0:57
Speaker 1: going to be taking a look at some various tweets
1:00
Speaker 1: and statements that have been made about this. Interesting and
1:04
Speaker 1: we'll kind of see where it takes us. Okay, So
1:06
Speaker 1: just to kind of set the stage here, Sure, I'm
1:09
Speaker 1: sure most of our listeners are familiar with the H
1:11
Speaker 1: one B visa program, but you know, maybe you're not.
1:15
Speaker 1: So what can you tell us about this program? What
1:17
Speaker 1: is it exactly?
1:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, the H one B visa program is essentially
1:22
Speaker 2: a program that allows US companies to hire foreign workers
1:27
Speaker 2: temporarily for jobs that require specialized knowledge, right, and so
1:32
Speaker 2: you know we're thinking engineers, scientists, doctors, architects, you know,
1:36
Speaker 2: a variety of specialized professions. And so the US issues
1:41
Speaker 2: about sixty five thousand of these visas every year, with
1:45
Speaker 2: another twenty thousand reserve for those with US master's degrees
1:48
Speaker 2: or higher. And what's really interesting here is over seven
1:52
Speaker 2: hundred thousand people were working in the US on H
1:54
Speaker 2: one B visas in twenty twenty three.
1:56
Speaker 1: Wow.
1:56
Speaker 2: So that just shows you how important it is. And
1:58
Speaker 2: it's actually not just you know, limited to the tech industry,
2:01
Speaker 2: which is kind of what it's associated with it. You know,
2:03
Speaker 2: it really spans across a variety of industries, including architecture, medicine, education, business, law, theology,
2:11
Speaker 2: and the art.
2:12
Speaker 1: It's really all over the place.
2:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was pretty significant.
2:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. And you know, and it's one
2:18
Speaker 1: of those things that you know, as you said, has
2:21
Speaker 1: been highly associated with the tech sector.
2:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
2:27
Speaker 1: Really is impacting so many different areas. So let's get
2:31
Speaker 1: to Trump now, you know, his stance on this seems
2:35
Speaker 1: like it would be pretty clear cut, right, Yeah, America. First,
2:38
Speaker 1: we heard all that, yeah, you know, very anti immigration, right,
2:42
Speaker 1: but then he says something that's got a lot of
2:44
Speaker 1: people scratching their heads. So what was this statement that
2:49
Speaker 1: he made to the New York Post that's got everybody talking?
2:53
Speaker 2: So just last week he told the New York Post
2:56
Speaker 2: that he's actually in support of the H one B program, wow,
3:00
Speaker 2: aiming to have always been in favor of it. In
3:02
Speaker 2: favor Yeah, and he even said that he uses H
3:04
Speaker 2: one B workers at his own properties.
3:06
Speaker 1: Okay, but wait a minute, Yeah, didn't he just a
3:09
Speaker 1: few years ago call it very bad and unfair to
3:13
Speaker 1: American workers?
3:14
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Yeah, So yeah, it was very different
3:16
Speaker 2: from what we heard in the twenty sixteen campaign, right, and.
3:19
Speaker 1: Even during his presidency. Yeah, he's tiding the restrictions on
3:21
Speaker 1: H oneb's.
3:22
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. Yeah, So it seems like he's had
3:23
Speaker 2: a bit of a change of heart.
3:25
Speaker 1: So what gives what happened?
3:26
Speaker 2: Well, some people are speculating that it might be tied
3:29
Speaker 2: to his appointment of Shurim Krishnan as one of his
3:34
Speaker 2: senior advisors on aik and Krishnan he's a venture capitalist
3:40
Speaker 2: and he's a really big advocate for eliminating these caps
3:44
Speaker 2: on skilled immigration programs, including the H one B. So
3:50
Speaker 2: you know, there's some speculation that this is, you know,
3:53
Speaker 2: part of the reason why.
3:54
Speaker 1: Okay, so he hires this guy Krishnan, right, and now
3:57
Speaker 1: suddenly he's in support. Yeah, but this isn't sitting well
4:01
Speaker 1: with everybody, especially in his own circle.
4:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of controversy, a lot of debate.
4:07
Speaker 2: You know, figures like Laura Lumer are saying, you know,
4:10
Speaker 2: be careful of the influence of these big tech executives,
4:13
Speaker 2: what kind of influence they're going to have on Trump.
4:16
Speaker 2: So they're not happy, right, So it's kind of divided
4:18
Speaker 2: the Maggie a world.
4:19
Speaker 1: It's interesting, it's interesting. How Yeah, you know, this is
4:23
Speaker 1: really creating some strange bedfellows. I mean, you have Trump,
4:28
Speaker 1: who you know, campaigned on these very anti immigration ideas,
4:34
Speaker 1: and now he's saying that he supports this program that
4:38
Speaker 1: allows foreign workers to come into work. And then you
4:41
Speaker 1: have people like Laura Lumer who are very you know,
4:46
Speaker 1: aligned with him on a lot of issues now coming
4:49
Speaker 1: out inside. No, no, no, this is this is not good.
4:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, be careful. Yeah, this is a slippery slope.
4:55
Speaker 1: So and then of course you have Elon Musk. You
4:58
Speaker 1: can't talk about this issue with talking about Elon Musk, Right.
5:01
Speaker 2: He's kind of jumped into the middle of all this.
5:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did mince words either, No, he did not.
5:06
Speaker 1: What did he have to say about this?
5:08
Speaker 2: So, uh, he's been very vocal in his defense of
5:12
Speaker 2: this program. He's really passionate about it. He actually went
5:16
Speaker 2: on Twitter and you know, with a few choice expletives.
5:19
Speaker 2: Oh wow, he said he's ready to go to war
5:22
Speaker 2: on this issue. War war. I mean, he's not messing around.
5:26
Speaker 1: He's not messing around. And it's interesting because you know
5:30
Speaker 1: he is an immigrant himself, that's right. He came from
5:33
Speaker 1: South Africa, and you know he built.
5:36
Speaker 2: These incredibly successful companies.
5:38
Speaker 1: I mean some of the most successful companies in America. Yeah,
5:41
Speaker 1: and you know, potentially with the help of these H
5:46
Speaker 1: one B workers.
5:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very possible.
5:49
Speaker 1: So he has a personal stake in this as well.
5:52
Speaker 1: It's interesting. But you know he also got into it
5:53
Speaker 1: with Steve Bannon. Oh yeah, who challenged him. Yeah, you know,
5:58
Speaker 1: put your money where your mouth is published the data
6:02
Speaker 1: on how many H whippee workers your companies rely on.
6:04
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's Yeah, it's.
6:07
Speaker 2: Very very interesting getting heated.
6:09
Speaker 1: It really is, Yeah, it really is. And it just
6:11
Speaker 1: shows you how much influence Musk has. I mean, even
6:15
Speaker 1: with Trump, it seems like a lot. I mean, he
6:17
Speaker 1: was you know, he was the biggest donor to his
6:19
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four campaign.
6:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, over two hundred and fifty million dollars.
6:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, two hundred and fifty million dollars. It's a lot
6:24
Speaker 1: of money. So, I mean he definitely has Trump's ear right,
6:28
Speaker 1: And some people have even jokes, you know, President Musk.
6:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that flock around.
6:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. And of course Trump has dismissed those claims.
6:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, no, no, no, that's not happening.
6:38
Speaker 1: But you have to wonder how much influence Musk really
6:41
Speaker 1: does have. Right, But in all of this political drama aside, Yeah,
6:47
Speaker 1: we need to look at the bigger picture here. I mean,
6:49
Speaker 1: the H one B program is not just about visas, no,
6:54
Speaker 1: and it's not just about Trump and Musk. It's about
6:57
Speaker 1: the fabric of our economy exactly, the workforce. Yeah, it's
7:02
Speaker 1: a really important.
7:02
Speaker 2: Issue, right, with real consequences.
7:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so let's take a deeper look at those
7:06
Speaker 1: real world implications Okay, let's do it, because you know,
7:09
Speaker 1: there are arguments on both sides.
7:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:13
Speaker 1: You know, some people say that it's great for the economy.
7:15
Speaker 1: It brings in skilled workers, it helps us stay competitive, keeps.
7:19
Speaker 2: Us at the forefront of innovation.
7:21
Speaker 1: But others worry about its impact on American jobs, yeah, wages,
7:26
Speaker 1: and even the potential for exploitation of these foreign workers.
7:29
Speaker 2: Right, there's legitimate concerns on both sides.
7:31
Speaker 1: So we're going to really dig into all that in
7:33
Speaker 1: the next part of our deep dive. Yeah, and we'll
7:36
Speaker 1: try to make sense of this holy Q one B mess.
7:38
Speaker 2: Okay, see in a bit, right, Okay, So let's dive
7:40
Speaker 2: into those real world impacts then.
7:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean one of the biggest criticisms that we
7:45
Speaker 1: hear about the H one B program is that, you know,
7:48
Speaker 1: it allows companies to hire these foreign workers at lower wages. Yeah,
7:53
Speaker 1: which you know that undercuts American workers, It dries down salaries.
7:58
Speaker 1: So is there any truth to that? I mean, what
7:59
Speaker 1: is the data actually say about the impact of these
8:02
Speaker 1: H one B workers on wages?
8:04
Speaker 2: Well, it's complicated, Yeah, I bet it's really not a
8:08
Speaker 2: simple answer, right, Some studies have shown that, yeah, it
8:11
Speaker 2: can depress wages in certain occupation, but then there are
8:15
Speaker 2: others that have shown that they can actually lead to
8:17
Speaker 2: higher wages for both native and foreign born workers. Really yeah,
8:22
Speaker 2: huh So it's really kind of all.
8:23
Speaker 1: Over the place, So it really depends. It really depends
8:27
Speaker 1: on the specific industry.
8:28
Speaker 2: I guess on the industry, the occupation. Yeah, the occupation, right,
8:31
Speaker 2: it's not a one size fits all.
8:33
Speaker 1: Okay, So are there any particular sectors where it's maybe
8:38
Speaker 1: more pronounced.
8:40
Speaker 2: Well, the tech industry has definitely been a big focus
8:42
Speaker 2: of this debate.
8:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense.
8:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you have critics saying that these companies
8:48
Speaker 2: like Google and Facebook and Microsoft, right, they're using the
8:52
Speaker 2: program to replace American workers with cheaper foreign labor, especially
8:57
Speaker 2: in those entry level positions.
8:59
Speaker 1: They're just trying to get cheaper labor.
9:01
Speaker 2: That's what they're saying.
9:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well what do those companies say about that, Well.
9:05
Speaker 2: They say, no, no, no, we need these workers because
9:08
Speaker 2: there are these critical skills gaps and we can't find
9:12
Speaker 2: these people here in the domestic workforce, so we need
9:15
Speaker 2: to bring them in to fill these highly specialized roles.
9:18
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a chicken and the egg
9:20
Speaker 1: thing it is. I mean, are they came first, right,
9:22
Speaker 1: Were they saying that they can't find these workers because
9:25
Speaker 1: they're not there, or are they creating this shortage by
9:29
Speaker 1: hiring all these cheaper foreign workers.
9:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the big question.
9:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah.
9:35
Speaker 2: And it's not just about the wages either. You know,
9:38
Speaker 2: there's also the question of innovation.
9:40
Speaker 1: Okay, so how does that play into it?
9:42
Speaker 2: So the supporters of this H one B program, they say,
9:48
Speaker 2: you know, these workers, these highly skilled workers, they are
9:53
Speaker 2: essential for driving those technological advancements and economic growth.
9:59
Speaker 1: I mean you can kind to see that, right, right, right?
10:01
Speaker 1: I mean Stilton Valley is a perfect example. Yeah, I mean,
10:04
Speaker 1: so many of those companies were founded or co founded
10:07
Speaker 1: by immigrants exactly. And think about Google. Yeah, they founded
10:10
Speaker 1: by Sergei Brinn, a Russian immigrant, Tesla Elon Musk South
10:15
Speaker 1: African immigrant. I mean, these are just a couple of
10:17
Speaker 1: examples of how immigrants have really contributed to America's success.
10:23
Speaker 2: To our technological advantage in the world.
10:26
Speaker 1: But I guess you could argue that those are exceptions
10:28
Speaker 1: to the rule.
10:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean those are the superstars.
10:30
Speaker 1: Right, They're the superstars. I mean, what about just the
10:33
Speaker 1: average H one B worker, do they really bring that
10:37
Speaker 1: level of innovation and entrepreneurship.
10:40
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question, and you know, obviously not
10:43
Speaker 2: every H one B worker is going to be a
10:45
Speaker 2: Sergei Brinn or an Elon Musk, right, but you know,
10:49
Speaker 2: there have been studies that have shown that they do
10:51
Speaker 2: contribute significantly to innovation.
10:54
Speaker 1: Okay.
10:54
Speaker 2: There was a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research, Okay,
10:58
Speaker 2: and they found that an increase in age one BEE
11:00
Speaker 2: workers in a city leads to a significant increase in
11:04
Speaker 2: patenting per capita.
11:06
Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, so basically just having them there, yeah, creates
11:09
Speaker 1: this ripple.
11:10
Speaker 2: Effect, right, it can boost innovation.
11:12
Speaker 1: Wow.
11:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see why this is such a tough Yeah,
11:16
Speaker 2: it's complicated.
11:17
Speaker 1: It's complicated. I mean, there are these economic benefits to
11:20
Speaker 1: bringing in these really talented people from all over the world,
11:24
Speaker 1: But then there's this concern about protecting American jobs, right
11:29
Speaker 1: and making sure that the system is not being abused exactly.
11:33
Speaker 1: So how do you find that balance? I mean, what
11:35
Speaker 1: are some of the solutions that have been proposed.
11:38
Speaker 2: Well, one idea is to raise the wage floor for
11:42
Speaker 2: H one.
11:42
Speaker 1: B workers so they're not being paid less than Americans exactly.
11:46
Speaker 2: Okay, so that would kind of level the playing field
11:48
Speaker 2: a little.
11:49
Speaker 1: Bit, that makes sense. Yeah, But wouldn't that also make
11:51
Speaker 1: it more expensive for companies to hire them?
11:53
Speaker 2: Well that's the trade off, right, Yeah. You know, if
11:56
Speaker 2: it's more expensive, they might be less inclined to actually
12:00
Speaker 2: use the program.
12:01
Speaker 1: So you know, there's always a trade off.
12:03
Speaker 2: There's always a trade off. It's a balancing act.
12:05
Speaker 1: Are there any other ideas out there?
12:07
Speaker 2: Well, another idea is to just kind of have stricter
12:11
Speaker 2: enforcement measures, okay, you know, crack down on the companies
12:14
Speaker 2: that are abusing the system.
12:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard those stories about you know, companies bringing
12:19
Speaker 1: in these workers for low skilled.
12:21
Speaker 2: Jobs, right, essentially using it as a cheap labor program,
12:24
Speaker 2: which is not what it was intended for, right, Right,
12:27
Speaker 2: So you know, strengthening those enforcement mechanisms, conducting more audits okay,
12:35
Speaker 2: and imposing harsher penalties okay for violators and make them
12:39
Speaker 2: think twice exactly, you know, make them think twice before
12:42
Speaker 2: they try to skirt the rules. But then you also
12:45
Speaker 2: have the issue of more bureaucracy, right, red tape, more
12:49
Speaker 2: red tape, So it might make it harder for legitimate companies.
12:53
Speaker 1: To actually hire the people they need. Right, It's tough.
12:57
Speaker 2: It's tough.
12:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no easy answers, no easy answers. Yeah.
13:00
Speaker 2: So you know it's complex.
13:02
Speaker 1: It's complex, it really is.
13:04
Speaker 2: There are valid arguments, yeah, both sides. It seems like
13:07
Speaker 2: every solution has its own set.
13:09
Speaker 1: Of problems, exactly, And that's why, you know, we need
13:12
Speaker 1: to have these discussions. We need to bring these issues
13:15
Speaker 1: to light, you know, really analyze the data.
13:18
Speaker 2: Look at it from different perspectives.
13:20
Speaker 1: Different perspective, yeah, and try to come up with solutions
13:23
Speaker 1: that actually work.
13:25
Speaker 2: That benefit everyone everyone. Yeah, yeah, not just you know,
13:28
Speaker 2: one side or the other, right, exactly. And it's not
13:30
Speaker 2: just about you know, finding a solution at the federal
13:33
Speaker 2: level either, And individuals can make a difference too, right, absolutely.
13:37
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, stay informed about the issues, engage
13:40
Speaker 1: in those discussions, and advocate for policies that align with
13:45
Speaker 1: your values. That's how we can actually make a difference
13:48
Speaker 1: at the individual level.
13:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. And this whole thing with the H one b's
13:52
Speaker 2: has really highlighted how important critical thinking is.
13:56
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
13:56
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't just believe everything you.
13:58
Speaker 1: Hear, whether it's from politicians or the media or even Yeah, even.
14:03
Speaker 2: Your favorite tech ceo.
14:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, your favorite tech ceo.
14:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, You've got to be careful.
14:07
Speaker 1: You got to look at it all, right and think
14:08
Speaker 1: for yourself.
14:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. We're just bombarded with information from all sides, right,
14:14
Speaker 2: it can be really tough to sift through all that.
14:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what's real? Yeah, what's not real?
14:20
Speaker 2: Exactly?
14:20
Speaker 1: So that's why we do this.
14:21
Speaker 2: That's why we do this.
14:23
Speaker 1: You know, that's why we take these deep dives.
14:24
Speaker 2: We're taking the time.
14:26
Speaker 1: We look at these issues. We challenge the assumption. We
14:28
Speaker 1: try to encourage and we get people thinking.
14:31
Speaker 2: People to think critically.
14:32
Speaker 1: We're not here to tell you what to think. No,
14:35
Speaker 1: we just want you to have all the information you
14:37
Speaker 1: can make up your own mind.
14:38
Speaker 2: Form your own opinion.
14:40
Speaker 1: So let's go back to that question we post earlier. Yeah,
14:43
Speaker 1: is this program is the H one B program m
14:47
Speaker 1: HM ultimately benefiting or harming the US?
14:52
Speaker 2: What do you think?
14:54
Speaker 1: We've looked at both sides, We've looked at the data,
14:57
Speaker 1: we've talked about the potential reforms.
14:59
Speaker 2: We've explored all. Well, what about you, Yeah, what are
15:02
Speaker 2: your thoughts?
15:03
Speaker 1: Where do you stand on this issue? Yeah?
15:05
Speaker 2: What do you think about all these arguments Yeah, what
15:07
Speaker 2: do you think about the arguments on both sides?
15:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, what solutions, what reforms would actually work.
15:13
Speaker 2: Would actually address those concerns.
15:16
Speaker 1: So let's hear it.
15:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know.
15:18
Speaker 1: This is your chance to share your thoughts. Yeah, be
15:21
Speaker 1: part of the conversation.
15:22
Speaker 2: And you know your insights. Yeah, they could spark a
15:24
Speaker 2: new idea.
15:25
Speaker 1: Exactly, a new solution, Yeah, maybe a way forward, maybe a.
15:28
Speaker 2: Way forward that we haven't even thought of yet exactly. Yeah,
15:31
Speaker 2: it's amazing. How you know we started talking about H
15:35
Speaker 2: one B visas. Yeah, and it's taken us from you know,
15:39
Speaker 2: the White House to Silicon Valley and back.
15:42
Speaker 1: It really has no, it's a wild ride.
15:44
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.
15:45
Speaker 1: And it just shows you how I don't know how
15:47
Speaker 1: connected everything is.
15:49
Speaker 2: It really does.
15:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:50
Speaker 2: I mean you think about this little visa program, but
15:54
Speaker 2: it's really impacting, you know, in all these different industries, economy, politics, markets.
16:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, It is crazy.
16:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it just underscores how important it is,
16:06
Speaker 2: you know, to really think critically about these issues.
16:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't just take the headlines at face.
16:11
Speaker 2: Value, right, exactly, because you know, we get caught up
16:14
Speaker 2: in those sound bites, right, and we don't always see
16:16
Speaker 2: the full picture.
16:17
Speaker 1: And it's so easy to do that.
16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's so easy it is.
16:20
Speaker 1: To just go along with what everybody else is saying.
16:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know this H one B debate, Yeah,
16:25
Speaker 2: it's a prime example of that.
16:26
Speaker 1: It is.
16:27
Speaker 2: I mean we've seen how you know.
16:29
Speaker 1: How much misinformation is out there. Yeah, all this partisan rhetoric.
16:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, people just trying to push their own agenda exactly.
16:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like nobody wants to actually have a real discussion
16:38
Speaker 1: about this, right.
16:39
Speaker 2: It's all about you know, it's about winning yeah, winning
16:42
Speaker 2: the argument. Yeah, not about finding a solution.
16:45
Speaker 1: Not about actually coming together. And you know, and we
16:47
Speaker 1: saw that in this whole deep dive we did. I
16:50
Speaker 1: mean you had people accusing, you know, Big Tech of
16:54
Speaker 1: pulling the strings, right, saying that you know, they're stealing jobs.
16:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even those whispers of like President Musk, Yeah,
17:01
Speaker 2: the President Musk thing like he's the one who's really
17:03
Speaker 2: calling the shots. Yeah, it's crazy.
17:06
Speaker 1: It is crazy.
17:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:07
Speaker 1: But then we also saw the other.
17:08
Speaker 2: Side, right, we saw data.
17:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, data that you know shows that they kind of
17:12
Speaker 1: contradict that these workers are contributing.
17:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're actually helping to boost the economy. Yeah, and
17:19
Speaker 2: you know, we talked about some potential solutions too, we
17:23
Speaker 2: did that would try to balance those needs. Yeah, find
17:26
Speaker 2: a way of both American workers and.
17:28
Speaker 1: Protect American workers, but also you.
17:30
Speaker 2: Know, allow these companies to get the talent they need, yeah,
17:34
Speaker 2: to thrive in this global market.
17:36
Speaker 1: So it's a reminder that you know, it's never black
17:38
Speaker 1: and white.
17:39
Speaker 2: No, it's not.
17:40
Speaker 1: It's always more complicated than that.
17:41
Speaker 2: It always is, Yeah, and.
17:42
Speaker 1: That's why it's so important. Yeah, just stay informed.
17:45
Speaker 2: To keep asking questions, to really engage in these conversations.
17:49
Speaker 1: And you know, to understand that our choices, yes, have consequences.
17:54
Speaker 2: Absolutely what we do, our decision.
17:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, or decisions about immigration, about the workforce, about technology,
17:59
Speaker 1: about the it all matters. It all matters, it really does. Yeah.
18:03
Speaker 2: We're shaping the future.
18:05
Speaker 1: We're shaping the future.
18:06
Speaker 2: So you know, we've come to the end of our
18:08
Speaker 2: deep dive we have and we want to leave you
18:11
Speaker 2: with one last question.
18:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, the big question, the big one, the one we've
18:15
Speaker 1: been asking all along. Yeah, where do you stand on this?
18:19
Speaker 2: Knowing everything that you know.
18:21
Speaker 1: Now about the H one B program.
18:23
Speaker 2: All the arguments, the history data.
18:26
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a good thing?
18:28
Speaker 2: Do you think it's a bad thing.
18:30
Speaker 1: Is it helping, is it hurting? Or is it somewhere
18:32
Speaker 1: in between.
18:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there's a way.
18:35
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a third option.
18:36
Speaker 2: To make it work for everyone.
18:38
Speaker 1: We don't have all the answers, No, we don't, but
18:40
Speaker 1: that's okay.
18:41
Speaker 2: That's why we need you.
18:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, we need you to think about this.
18:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to share your thoughts to keep the conversation
18:46
Speaker 2: going because this is important, it really is. It affects
18:50
Speaker 2: all of us.
18:51
Speaker 1: So thanks for joining us.
18:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for listening.
18:53
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this deep dive and that you
18:56
Speaker 1: learn something and that you'll keep thinking about this.
18:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, and keep those minds buzzing.
19:01
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.