Latest / Rich Valdés: This is America! / Carole Lieberman, Clancy Trial, Clinical Crisis

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Carole Lieberman, Clancy Trial, Clinical Crisis · Rich Valdés: This is America!

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: This is America with Rich Valdez, powered by politiweek.com.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: And Rich Valdez is with us, former Christie administration official.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: You work for Chris Christie, you've been in politics, a
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: lot of public service stuff. Rich Valdez, columnist now with
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: the Washington Times.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This is America.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Richie V, you're on the air with The Nation.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: This is America with your host, Rich Valdez.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: What's up, America? I am Rich Valdez. Valdez with an S.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: At Rich Valdez on all of the social media. Your
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: liberty-loving Latino amigo right here 17 blocks away from Madison
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Square Garden in Times Square, New York City. Happy to
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: be with you. And it's truly a blessing. 877-VALDEZ1 is
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the phone number. And I want to talk about some
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Lindsey Clancy here because... There's a lot to discuss, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be bringing on some psychiatrists to weigh
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: in on this, both Dr. Carol Lieberman and Dr. Abloh,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: because I want to get their take as professional psychiatrists
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: on a number of things, right? There's a lot of
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: people saying that she didn't do it, that she did
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: do it, right? That's all legal stuff, but when it
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: comes to the actual healthcare matter, was this woman getting
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: the care she needed? Was this woman actually trying to
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: To get help, did the system fail her, or was
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: it just simply her failing her family in the most
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: egregious way? Those are some of the questions that I'm
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: going to be asking Dr. Carol Lieberman. You know her
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: from Court TV. She's been around for a very long time,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: a quarter century this year, that I first saw her
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: when she debuted as the terrorist therapist, analyzing what was
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: going on in the minds of the 9-11 hijackers. And
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: she's been a forensic psychologist on, psychiatrist, excuse me, on
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Court TV for the last two and a half decades.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: So keep it locked right here because when we come back,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: we're going one-on-one in a deep dive with Dr. Carol Lieberman.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: This is America.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: All right, familia, welcome back. It's Rich Valdez. Happy to
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: be here with you this evening, keeping you company. And
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: nobody is more qualified to talk about the fallout of
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: the Lindsay Clancy mistrial than Dr. Carol Lieberman, right? We're
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: on the heels of the September 11th attacks when she
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: took center stage 25 years ago and she hasn't gone
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: anywhere since, calling out these terrorists for what they were
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: and became known as America's terrorist therapist. I call her
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: America's psychiatrist, Dr. Carol Lieberman. Welcome back.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Yes, it's both.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of talking about Lindsay Clancy,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: but not everybody agrees with what I have to say.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: But this is where I'm coming from when I talk
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: about it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I'm a psychiatrist, and I'm a forensic psychiatrist and expert witness.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So I testify in courtrooms, in cases, all civil and
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: criminal cases. I've been doing it for like over 25 years.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: And so I know like the roles of all these
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: people and how they're.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Feeling and what they're doing. And, you know, and well,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: first of all, let me just put it up front.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I think she should have been found not guilty or
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: not responsible because I think she was in a postpartum
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: psychosis and depression. And I think that the reason why,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, aside from we could talk about the holdout juror.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: But the reason why it wasn't unanimous.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Besides that I think he's crazy, but I mean, I
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: think he has other reasons.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Well, anyway, we'll get to that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: But I think that it would have been more of
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: a slam dunk if the defense would have gone into
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: more of what being psychotic and hearing voices actually is like.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: He had a great psychiatrist, Resnick, and a great psychologist
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: as experts testifying. But they did not get into the,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: they didn't describe it well enough. I mean, he might
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: have needed videos or something, something to describe what it's
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: like when a person hears voices.
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  Speaker 4: Now, I trained at NYU Bellevue. I was the chief
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: resident there.
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  Speaker 2: And I spent three years, plus, of course, my practice
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: afterwards um but in bellevue it was like a lot
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: of people psychotic people hearing voices and other kinds of
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: crazy stuff delusions hallucinations everything so i know what that's
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: like and during that time the people really are in
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a different world you know like the the um, prosecutors
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: were saying she planned it and she listens. Now, first
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: of all, if she planned it, she had much better
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: times to do it because he used to, her husband,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: who I hope somebody investigates more. Um, he had, he
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: left her, he would leave her for days, you know, overnight.
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  Speaker 4: So she had time when he had plenty of time.
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  Speaker 2: So she didn't have to send him out to the,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you know, the, uh, restaurant and the, and the drug
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: store and all that. Um, Anyway, I'll stop here, but
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: just so you know where I'm coming from.
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  Speaker 5: Sure.
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  Speaker 3: I get it. Now, listen, we saw a similar case
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  Speaker 3: in New York, and I don't want to go down
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: that rabbit hole, but a similar case, a young mom, African-American,
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: killed her son, two-year-old. She was found not guilty by
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: reason of insanity.
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  Speaker 6: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: That sort of went by, you know, it didn't even get,
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, I read it.
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  Speaker 3: It didn't get a lot of attention. And my position
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: is I don't, I think most people that are killing
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: people are crazy. This is me, the layman right now.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: I know that you're the expert in this, so you
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: can help us understand, but I don't think anybody should
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: get a slap on the wrist for, for murdering three children,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: whether they hear voices or not. But I think that's
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: a different argument than the question that was presented in
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: the court, which was, was she of sound mind or not?
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: And and ultimately they couldn't do it. I probably would
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: have been the holdout juror myself because I don't know
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a lot about this. But to me, what fascinated me
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: about this whole thing was how so many people really
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: came almost like a Luigi Mangione thing came to the
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: the support of the killer saying, yeah, we're on her team.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: And I just thought to myself, having children, loving my children,
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  Speaker 3: I could never imagine harming them that way and making
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the case while I was having a psychosis. So help us,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: you know, us layman folks that want to see her
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: get the electric chair. Help us understand. I know.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I've been trying.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: I can't... It is kind of like Mangione, and it
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: is kind of like, you know, people are so into
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: crime these days, true crime.
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: And with the internet and with, you know, all the
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: shows that talk about it and all that, Court TV.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So people kind of connect to the defendants, to the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: players in the trial, much more than ever before.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So, now, I know you were saying that the psychosis of, like,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: the women... in the pink outfits, I don't think that
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: they are psychotic.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think that.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: They are to blame other than the one who took
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: the photograph. You know, she said she was trying to
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: photograph Lindsay, and she might well have been because she was,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: you know, a Lindsay fan, but she should have watched
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: out for the.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: Jurors that were in the way. But anyhow, these women.
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  Speaker 2: It's not that they are for, I mean, I'm sure
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: many of them had children, if not all of them.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: It's not that they are for mothers killing children. It's
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that they were for, first of all, better mental health. treatment,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you know, better mental health, uh, opportunities, availability, and, and,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: and smarter mental health professionals.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: That was the thing that was killing me during the
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: whole trial.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: That might be the better way to praise it. Cause I,
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: she was a nurse and she worked in a hospital
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  Speaker 3: and had colleagues that were doctors and seemed to have
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of support available to her, but maybe not
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  Speaker 3: competent support.
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  Speaker 2: Well, well, but it wasn't the people, you know, she
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: went to therapists outside of her hospital.
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  Speaker 4: She didn't, wasn't going to the people, but, um.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: But the people that she went to for treatment and
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: that they put on the stand one after another after another,
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  Speaker 2: one was more ignorant than the other.
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  Speaker 4: It made me so angry, especially.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Give us a couple of examples so that everybody that's
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: listening understands.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I was just going to do that. This one woman,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I think her name was Dr. Tuft or Tufts or
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: something like that. She was a psychiatrist. And she had
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: just gotten out of residency, a psychiatry residency, and had
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: just opened her practice like a few months before. And
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  Speaker 2: the reason why this is so irritating to me is
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  Speaker 2: that it shows what we are graduating, what is being
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: graduated these days from psychiatry residency.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: It's not that all, I'm not saying all of them
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: are like her, but.
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So she joined this practice and she saw Lindsay Clancy.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: And for like, I think it was, what was it?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: 45 minutes or half an hour the first time, something
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: like that, some short time. And she was being asked
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: by the defense attorney how much of that time was therapy.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And I think she said around 20 minutes and some
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: small amount. And so then he asked her, what did
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: you do during this therapy time? And she said, I
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: listened to her and I gave her hope. Well, like, hello,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: is that what they're teaching in residencies? That's what you
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: do for therapy? That's not therapy. Your neighbor could do that.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And she gave her medications. And that was the thing.
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  Speaker 2: All the people that she saw just threw pills at her.
• 9:57
  Speaker 7: And the.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Benefit of this case is that it shows the dilapidated
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: state that the psychiatry, and they weren't all psychiatrists, but
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: the mental health profession is in. Because all they're doing
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: now is pushing pills and not doing therapy.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: And people don't get better. Now, if this Dr.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Tufts would have asked her, instead of just throwing pills
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: or giving her hope, would have asked her, tell me
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: about your relationship with your husband. Tell me about your
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: relationship with your children, each one of them. You know,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: she would have gone into that. Because I think that
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: the relationship with her husband was not good. You know, he,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: first of all, you know, one of the things that
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: just came.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Out Before you go there, Dr. Carol, because I want
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: to spend a whole segment on the husband, because that
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: was a big point of contention. So we'll take a
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: quick pause here and we'll come right back. Amigos, we're
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: on with Dr. Carol Lieberman. She's America's psychiatrist. You know
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: her from Court TV. She's been around for a quarter
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: of a century talking about the 9-11 hijackers. They called
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: her the terrorist therapist. You've seen her all over the
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: television commenting on these things, and I'm thrilled to have
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: her and hear her perspective on this, even if it
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: differs from mine because I can learn something and you
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: might learn something too. We're going to talk about the
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: husband coming up next. Don't go anywhere.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: This is America. This is America. He's brown, he's bald,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and he's breaking it down.
• 11:30
  Speaker 8: Oh, he's so handsome.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: What's his name?
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Rich Valdez.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: All right, amigos, welcome back. Rich Valdez continuing the conversation
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: with Dr. Carol Lieberman, America's psychiatrist. And we're talking about
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: the husband. A lot of people, Dr. Carol, are saying
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: it was him. He did it, this and that. And
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: of course, Internet hearsay, Twitter detectives, TikTok psychologists. But one
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: thing that did stand out was his response when he
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: was speaking about this, about finding his own children.
• 12:00
  Speaker 8: When you you realized it was really quiet, what did
• 12:03
  Speaker 8: you do?
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: I called out.
• 12:07
  Speaker 8: And who did you call out to?
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Everyone.
• 12:10
  Speaker 8: Did anyone answer?
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: No.
• 12:14
  Speaker 8: After you called out and no one answered, what did
• 12:16
  Speaker 8: you do next?
• 12:20
  Speaker 9: I think I, I don't know the order, but I
• 12:23
  Speaker 9: called down in the basement and no one answered. And
• 12:28
  Speaker 9: then I called Lindsay to see if she was home.
• 12:32
  Speaker 9: Cause I looked out and I, I couldn't see her car,
• 12:35
  Speaker 9: but it's because it was dark and her car's black.
• 12:38
  Speaker 7: Okay, so when you say you called down to the basement,
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: when you approached the basement door, do you remember if
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: it was open or shut?
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: It was shut.
• 12:48
  Speaker 8: So did you open it and yell down? Yeah. And
• 12:50
  Speaker 8: there was no response?
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: Correct.
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: Do you recall when you opened the door to yell
• 12:55
  Speaker 7: down whether the light was on or off?
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was on, but Lindsay always left the light on.
• 13:04
  Speaker 8: And you said you called Lindsay. Was that a phone call?
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker 7: And was that at approximately 6.09.
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: P.m.? Yeah.
• 13:12
  Speaker 7: And did she answer?
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: After you called Lindsay and didn't get a response, what
• 13:16
  Speaker 7: did you do next?
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: I started checking upstairs.
• 13:21
  Speaker 8: And where did you check upstairs?
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: First, the bathroom. I thought maybe they were taking baths,
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: but there's no one there.
• 13:31
  Speaker 8: And then where did you go?
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: The kids' bedrooms.
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: Was there anyone in the kids' bedrooms?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: No.
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: And then did you go to your bedroom?
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: And were you able to get into your bedroom right away?
• 13:42
  Speaker 9: No, the door was locked, and that's when I knew
• 13:44
  Speaker 9: something was wrong.
• 13:45
  Speaker 8: When you unlocked the door to your bedroom, did you
• 13:48
  Speaker 8: go in?
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: And what did you see when you opened the door
• 13:53
  Speaker 8: and went in?
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: I just saw blood everywhere, and the window was open.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: I can't even think about that without shedding a tear.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: He seemed incredibly calm. I don't know if it was shock,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: if it was how he grieved. I'm not indicting the guy.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying it was odd to me to see
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: that type of response. Your thoughts on the husband?
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: You mean on the stand when he was testified? Yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, on the stand, he was like
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: being pulled in three different directions. And I am not
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: excusing him for anything. I think he's... I think he's
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: very dangerous. I think there's a lot there that needs
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: to be unraveled. But on the stand, he was being
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: pulled by three different masters. One, you know, he has
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: this lawsuit against the treaters and the hospitals and all
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: that for giving her bad treatment, which, you know, I
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: think that they should win. I don't think he should
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: get a penny, but I think that she should. I mean,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I think they need to have their licenses taken away
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: is really what I think.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: There's that.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So he had to present himself in a way that
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: kind of indicted these treaters. But also, he told everyone
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: that he forgives Lindsay. But, you know, he hadn't seen
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: her since that night, since the night of the crime
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: or of the event. He didn't see her until he
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: walked into that courtroom. That was the first time.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Can you believe that?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Now, I know you might be angry at your wife
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and all that. It was rageable, but to not see
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: her for all these... I mean, it happened in 2023,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I think. In any case, so he wanted... But for
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: his case against the traitors, he wants some sympathy for her.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So he said that he forgave her.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: He made a big deal. I forgive my wife, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: But then, since he really has a lot.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Of rage towards her, there was that too. And I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: think that it was the rage that came out the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: most because... You know, he would say things. It was
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: damning with faint praise. He would say things like, oh, yeah,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: you know, when he was asked, did she take her medication? Oh, yes,
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I think she took her pills. Well, but, you know,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't stand there every time to watch her.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So he, like, put some doubt in every kind of
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: answer that he gave that could have helped her. I
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: don't know why the prosecution called him. I mean, I
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: guess they were expecting even better answers. But he didn't
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: help the defense. He certainly didn't help the defense. Now,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: something happened just recently. You know, he's going to be
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: on 60 Minutes on Sunday. And he did an interview.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: That's his first interview. So he was asked, do you
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: talk to your children? And he said, yes, I talk
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to them every day. And the host asked, what do
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: you say? And he said, I say, help me all
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: Help me? Help him?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Where was he helping the kids? Why didn't he do
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: more to help the kids? I mean, can you imagine that?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: A parent asking their dead children to help me? It's
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: narcissistic beyond belief, but it's even worse than that. You know,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: there's something very weird of a parent asking their dead
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: children to help them.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: I mean, he's not the one on trial. He already
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: got a lot of help. He's married.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: I get that. I'm just wondering if, and your thoughts
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: on this. I know many people who've lost a loved one,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: not necessarily a child, but in some cases a child,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: and they refer to them as a guardian angel and
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: they look at them that way. Do you think there's
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: potential for that in that situation?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with that, that people think that. And
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking that. I
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: think it's just the fact that they are, that they
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: were the children that he.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: And the victims.
• 17:49
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: And OK. And and he was the one that he
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: didn't help them. That's the part.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And as a dad, it's your job to provide and
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: protect them.
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: Yes. Understood.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Now, a lot of people continue to point the finger
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: at him saying he could have done more. I I
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: look at this and I think, man, I don't know
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: how these things work.
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I was married for about 10 years and I knew
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: my wife was frustrated on many occasions, never thought that
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: this would be a possible outcome. But I'm wondering, you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: what do people look for? Are there warning signs? How
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: do you know? Should you not leave your wife alone
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: with kids if she has postpartum depression? Are there things
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: we can do to safeguard? Was he being reckless in
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: that regard or things that any of the rest of us,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: if we ever have kids again, what should we look for?
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, he was checked out, you know. Well, first
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: of all, she made it obvious. She told him, I
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: have thoughts about killing myself and I have thoughts about
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: harming the children.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: She didn't keep a secret of it. And yet he
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: left her alone with them.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: They had a nanny for a while, and then he
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: got his work to let him do, to work from home.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: So then he fired the nanny. Now, he should never
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: have fired the nanny. And he had, when she would
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: be talking about this, I feel like harming the children,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: he would have her parents come sometimes. I mean, I
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: don't know if he was just trying to save money.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know they were pretty wealthy, but You
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: don't fire the nanny when.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: Your wife is talking about harming the kids.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And don't go off somewhere overnight. He just kept on
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: his life. It really did seem like he wanted to
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: have a different life, like he wanted to be done
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: with this.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I would too if my wife told
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: me she wanted to kill my kids. I'd want to
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: get out. But I would probably take action to try
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: and get out, which I find maybe he was stuck.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Maybe he didn't care. Maybe he didn't realize it.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: These are the questions that I have, I guess, like
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: you were. How do you how do you have the
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: mother of the children tell you, I think I'm going
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: to hurt these kids and you go, oh, that's all right, honey.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Take it. He had to drink a glass of wine.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: I think that's insane.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: But I think he was, you know, he's nice. We
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: know that he went to New York at least once.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I think there are more times too, overnight. Now, his
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: new wife lives in New York. Now, I don't know,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: so I can't say that he was meeting the woman
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: who became his new wife, but maybe he was just,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you know, going to bars or going, meeting, trying to
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: meet people.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And, you know, you could, if you were a prosecutor,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: you could try to make the argument that she knew this,
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: not necessarily that he was meeting other women, but that
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: he wanted out. And that's, you know, like when people
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: get divorced and they kill the children so that the
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: other spouse doesn't get them in the custody battle and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: all that. You know, I think the prosecutors, well, if
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: they had enough information, they could have tried to make
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: that argument that she did do it on purpose because
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: she knew that he was trying to leave her.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: But, I mean, I don't know that there's enough information
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: to say that he killed the kids, although there are
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: some questionable things.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, the timing and his DNA being on at
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: least one of the bands, I don't know.
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: But.
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: But certainly, certainly.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Well, let's just pause right there. So there was a
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: lot of people sleuthing this thing on TikTok. I spoke
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: with a couple of law enforcement people told me that
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: the timestamps on the videos clear him unequivocally. What do
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: you think that there was some potentiality for malfeasance on
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: his part?
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there was.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, if not him actually strangling them, him perhaps
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: putting some of her mixing her pills up, putting them in.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: her food or her drink or something like that to
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: kind of make her go more crazy.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: But, but now that we, I think the fact that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: now we have him saying on 60 minutes, help me
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: all the, help me all the time saying that to
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: the kids, it shows that there is something that is
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: not right in his head. So, so when it's, but
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: to get back to your question about the signs and,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: She made it clear, I have thoughts of harming myself
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: and the children. Also, if a spouse is erratic, the
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: real failure that he did, and it was also the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: failure of the mental health system, is that he should
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: have made sure that the hospitals kept her longer. She
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: should have been in the hospital from the time that
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: she had these first thoughts of killing herself and killing
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: her children. And she should have stayed there until these
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: thoughts were gone.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Now, what's a treatment like for something like that? You know,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I guess you tell your wife, hey, look, I don't
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: want to see our kids get hurt. I don't know
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: what to do. I love you, but you're going to
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: have to check into one of these inpatient places. And
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: she's like, no, you're trying to get rid of me.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: And I guess she goes and eventually they do a
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: 72-hour hold, evaluate and figure out, okay, she said she
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: was going to harm herself and the kids, they hold her.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: What's the next step? What do they give somebody for that?
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Is that like lithium, valium? What do they do to
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: make them better?
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, part of the problem is they didn't.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think any of them recognized what she was
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: suffering from. That's the first thing. But then they were
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: giving her a cocktail of medications, too many different medications.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: They were trying to treat the symptoms instead of treating
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: the underlying problem, which one would have.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Done with therapy.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Now, in the hospitals, they should have been giving her
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: therapy every day. And they should have figured out, like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: do one medication at a time. They were throwing them
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: all together so they couldn't know what was doing what.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: And, you know, when she got out, like the last time,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: the time before she killed the kids, she wanted to
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: get out because it was her daughter's birthday the next day.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: And so she was afraid that her husband wasn't going
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: to make a party or something like that. And so,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: but the psychiatrist, you know, they do this.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: There were so many mistakes.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: One of the things was if someone is suicidal or
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: tells you, I have thoughts of killing myself, hurting myself.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: One of the things you do naturally, you ask, do
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: you have any plans? And she said, no, I don't
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: have plans. I wouldn't do that.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't kill myself because I would want to keep
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: me alive for my kids. Well, you know, you don't
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: just take that at face value. You know, you have
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: to spend a lot more time on these things. You know,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: you don't just like, they were kind of going down
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: this checklist. I asked this question, this question, but they lie.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: People lie when they want to kill themselves.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: So let's say in that case where she says, you know,
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: do you have plans? And she says no. Had she
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: said yes, what difference does that make for a professional
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: in your position?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Well, if she had said yes, or if they had
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: asked more questions or got more of a sense of
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the whole family dynamics... They would have realized that she's
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: not telling the truth. They would have called the husband
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and said, please be sure to make a party because
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: your wife is upset, wants to leave so that she
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: can be there to make a party. And so really,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: you know, you would keep the person in the hospital.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: If someone is a danger to self or a danger
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: to others, they should be on a hold. Now, it
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: turns out that she wasn't even on a hold. It
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: was very strange how they put her in the hospital
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: in McLean. They put her in a locked ward. But
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: she wasn't on a 72-hour hold. So it was like
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: competing kinds of conflicting sorts of plans and ideas for
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: what was wrong with her.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: You're saying like she checked herself in voluntarily, but it
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: was still a locked word where you can't leave.
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: And she was saying, I have thoughts of killing myself. So,
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Now, is that enough? Is that enough to hold somebody
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: saying that they want to hurt themselves? That's the rule
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: that should hold people, right? The Baker Act?
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: And yet it didn't happen, or it doesn't seem to
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: have happened.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: If the mental health professional thinks that there is a
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: chance that the person is going to take action and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: kill themselves or hurt somebody else, they are supposed to.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: That's the 72-hour hold. Baker Act is in Florida.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know that they call it that in Massachusetts,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: but it's the same thing, a 72-hour hold. But these days,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: hospitals throw people out. You know, they're all too ready
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to throw people out.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: This is part of the problem. It wasn't just her.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: This happens every day, especially if you don't have good insurance.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: That's going to pay the hospital for every day.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: That's what dictates everything.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So we are in really a mess.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: You know, the mental health system is in a mess,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: and it needs to be fixed on lots of counts,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: especially this whole, you know, I mean, what happened was
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: some years ago, insurance companies decided that they wouldn't pay
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: psychiatrists to do therapy.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Well, they didn't.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: They were paying psychiatrists more to do therapy than they
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: were paying psychologists and social workers to And counselors because
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: psychiatrists are MDs. But so then the insurance companies realize, well,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: wait a second. We can have these other people, not MDs,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: doing therapy. And then we can pay less. And so
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: psychiatrists couldn't really afford to keep on doing like 45
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: minutes to an hour of therapy with people, whether in
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: the hospital, well, in the hospital is a little different,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: but certainly outside the hospital, I mean, in general practice,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: because if they see eight patients a day and the
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: insurance is now giving them some ridiculously low amount of
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know the amount, first of all, because I
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: don't take insurance, but second of all, because I do therapy.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: I don't just throw pills at people. In fact, that's
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the last resort.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: It should be.
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: It should be.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: But so then they realize, well, if we do med visits,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you know, 15 minutes to 45 minutes perhaps the first time,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I can make four times as much, you know, than
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: if I– if I was seeing eight patients a day
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: for therapy at the rate that the insurance was paying,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that would be one amount. But if I saw people
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: for 15 minutes, it would be four times that. So
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: that's how psychiatrists, I, and, and, you know, it's, it's like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I don't, there was no, there was, there were no protests.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: There were no, you know, nothing to, to try to,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to say anything about this. The psychiatrist just sort of,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: figured out a workaround, which is to do med visits
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: and give people pills.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: And it is really, really bad.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: You know, and I think that the residency programs are
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: not doing as much teaching people how to do therapy.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, they obviously have to do it to some degree,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: but they're not doing it as much as they should.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: And so people are just getting pills thrown at them.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And then when the person comes back, when the patient
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: comes back and they're not better, then the doctor just
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: throws another prescription at them. So now people are walking
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: around on two and three and up to five different prescriptions.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: She had 13 different prescriptions.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Wow. Unbelievable.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Doc, I'm going to pause right here. I want to
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: come back and ask. you two more questions. One about
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: what can we expect moving forward? More from the legal framework, retrial,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: maybe a deal that's cut. And your closing arguments on
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: why crazy people that kill people shouldn't be put in jail.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: More to come straight ahead. It's Rich Valdez with Dr.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Carol Lieberman.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: This is America. This is America.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: The 45th president, Donald Trump, thinks it's an honor to
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: speak with Rich Valdez.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, very good, Mr. Call Screener.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: It's an honor.
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: Thanks, Rich.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: The honor is all yours. Conservative talk with a dash
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: of sofrito.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Now, here's Rich Valdez.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: What's up, America? We continue the conversation with Dr. Carol Lieberman,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: America's psychiatrist. You've seen her on Court TV. She's with
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: us now. She's been gracious with her time. And Dr. Carol,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: the The outcome of this case was a mistrial. The
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: attorney for Lindsey Clancy looks like he's running for president.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: He's on every TV network all the time making the case,
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I guess, trying to sully the jury pool so that
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: they don't go to trial again. And quite frankly, there's
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: no guarantee that what happened in this case might not
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: happen again. Although I think there were, I'm going to
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: call them mistakes or missteps. sequestering the jury, making sure
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: maybe it was a closed courtroom, not letting in the
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: pink people with the cameras, that type of thing, which
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: may ensure a fair trial. But all that being said,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: what do you think in your years of being an
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: expert witness and being a forensic psychiatrist in court, giving
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: this type of testimony, what do you think happens from here?
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: Well, I hope that they don't do a retrial.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I hope that they can either come to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: some kind of a plea deal or some kind of a,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: because she was just, um, this was a torture for her.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: And I know people, some people say, well, she deserves
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: to be tortured because she killed these three kids. But, um,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: it seems like cruel and unusual punishment. Um, why do
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I think people with mental illness shouldn't, shouldn't, um, be
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: put in jail for, for, for crimes? Um, I, I,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: let me sort of, um, uh, make that a little clearer.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, a little, I'm not saying that any person
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: with mental illness shouldn't be held responsible for whatever they do,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: some crime. But if someone has been trying time and
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: time and time again, which she was, even calling suicide hotlines,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: and they would ask, well, do you have a plan?
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: She would say, well, no. And that was the end
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: of that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think someone like this, like Lindsay Clancy,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: who made superhuman efforts to get help. and was turned
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: away at every try. I think she deserves to have,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't like she had mental illness and
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: she wasn't telling anyone about it. You know, if she
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: had plans or wanted to kill herself and wanted to
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: kill her or harm her children.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: And she was keeping it a secret, that's one thing.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: And then one day she just did it. That's one thing.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: But she was telling everybody and she was asking for
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: help from so many different people and places and she
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: wasn't getting it.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: And I think someone like that certainly.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Deserves to get the lesser charge to, you know, she
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: couldn't help her, her mental illness. I mean, she couldn't,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: she couldn't, what they were giving her, all these pills
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: were not helping her controlling her voices and controlling her
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: different psychotic symptoms.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess ultimately that leaves a void for how
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: the children get justice. But I see your point. And
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: you probably would have been a more effective defense attorney
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: than the one she had, although it seems like it worked, right?
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: She didn't get in trouble just yet. Dr. Carol Lieberman,
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: let everybody know how they can find you and learn
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: more about what you're doing.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Well, they could go to one of my websites, which
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: is called expertwitnessforensicpsychiatrist.com, expertwitnessforensicpsychiatrist.com.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Also, of course, on Twitter, it's Dr. Carol at Dr.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Carol MD. It's Carol with an E.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: At the end. Dr. Carroll, you're a national treasure. I
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: appreciate the conversation and trying to help me open my eyes.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: And honestly, I'll give it a second thought. I'm still
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: not sold, but I do understand the point you're making.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: And there was a couple of points you raised that
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I just wasn't aware of. Sure, after the 60 minutes debacle,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I'm going to foreshadow and call it a debacle. We'll
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: get together again maybe next week and debrief on that one.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: I appreciate you being here.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Okay, thank you.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: All right, that's Dr. Carol Lieberman, and we're coming right back.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: More to come straight ahead. Don't move a muscle.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: This is America. This is America. He's making podcasting great again.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: This is America with Rich Valdez.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: All right, familia, welcome back. Rich Valdez, Valdez with an S,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: at Rich Valdez on all of the social media, keeping
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: you company tonight. And what an interesting interview we had
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: with Dr. Carol Lieberman, right? So many people talking about
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: this Lindsay Clancy, and it's been going on for weeks
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: and weeks and weeks on end. And it really exposed
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of things, right? One of the main things
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: I think that it exposed is how much people are
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: willing to go with the underdog here, right? Just like
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: the Mangione case, just like many of these cases, people
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: are becoming less godly. That's the word I'm going to use.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: They don't care about life as much as they do
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: what they perceive to be justice. If it seems just
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: in their eyes, like all these women that I guess
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: identified with Lindsay Clancy and decided to make videos about
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: them harming their children, throwing them down the stairs, all
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: these different crazy videos that are trending online, really just
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: goes to show you how crazy things really are.
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: I'm Christina Awayo in Dallas, and here are your top stories.
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: Lindsay Clancy supporters are saying things like any mother could
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: have killed their kids. They could harm their own kids.
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: Her husband is to blame. Lindsay is the victim, and
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: women are being dismissed and neglected. The insanity is real.
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: The Clancy clan is coming out in support of the
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: woman who strangled her three young kids to death. Some
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: posting videos showing themselves crying while holding their babies with
• 36:38
  Speaker 6: the captions, same Lindsay. We can all relate, Lindsay. And
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: I am Lindsay Clancy. Others are posting videos of themselves
• 36:46
  Speaker 6: herding dolls, meant to be their babies, by putting them
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: in the dryer, closing them in the dishwasher, or throwing
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: them down the stairs. Here are some of the things
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: that are being said in support of the woman who
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: admitted to killing. Cora, 5 years old. Dawson, 3 years old.
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: And Callen, 8 months old. Quote, I think that every
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: one of us women believe that could have been any
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: one of us, any one of us who have dealt
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: with mental illness, anxiety, depression, postpartum. I think we just
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: know that any one of us could be sitting in
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: her chair. We're here. We hear you. We understand you.
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: And any one of us could have been sitting in
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: your chair. So we are behind you 100%. I think
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: she's a victim of a failed medical system. And I
• 37:27
  Speaker 6: think women's mental health isn't taken seriously enough. I've been
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: a mom where you don't want to say how you
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: feel because of the stigma. If I say I feel
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: this way, will my kids get taken away? She's in
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: her own hell. She has lost all of her babies.
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: She lost her husband. She's in a wheelchair. I don't
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: think prison is going to help her with her mental state.
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: Women are being dismissed, neglected, and ignored when we speak up.
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: We're scared because nobody takes us seriously. This Lindsay Clancy
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: trial has hit me so viscerally and it's so close
• 37:58
  Speaker 6: to home. Lindsay's angry posts about her kids sounded like
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: things I had written myself. She's very sleep deprived. Her
• 38:05
  Speaker 6: job as a labor and delivery nurse, working night shifts,
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: and three children is a lot. She's already in a wheelchair.
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: That's her consequence. Patrick Clancy should go to jail for negligence.
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: He needs to take care of his kids, and that
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: was his responsibility. Lindsay did not kill her kids. Same
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: Lindsay posts are popping up everywhere with the captions. Me
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: when I had to ask the neighbor to bathe her
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: because I thought I would drown her. Another one said
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: my new vetting process. If I want to date a
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: man first date question, I'm always going to be asking
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: him is do you think that Lindsay Clancy should go
• 38:38
  Speaker 6: to jail for what she did? And if that man
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: says yes. I'm getting up and walking out right.
• 38:44
  Speaker 8: Then and there.
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: Some of them have a new theory saying that he
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: killed the kids, referring to Patrick Clancy. Others are just
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: saying they think she's innocent. A GoFundMe for Clancy's parents,
• 38:53
  Speaker 6: Mike and Paula Musgrove, raised more than $ 1 million. All right,
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: so here are the questions. Are we now in a
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: world where the response to a mother murdering her kids is, quote,
• 39:04
  Speaker 6: you're not perfect? Are we now excusing the murder of
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: innocent children because a person feels depressed or is sleep-deprived?
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: You be the judge. That's what you need to know.
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: In Dallas, Christina Awayo.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: People really think that, you know, the postpartum depression is real.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying it's not, but they're making it
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: seem like, yeah, that's real. We'd be wanting to kill
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: our kids. excuse me ma'am I don't care what you
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: want to do this is crazy you know I saw
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: one video and I've mentioned it before and I'll mention
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: it again this girl was Dominican from the Dominican Republic
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: a Latina girl and she basically said look this type
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: of thing can't happen in our community And I'm sure
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: people would immediately start pushing back. This knows no bounds.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: It does. It does know bounds. Because the reality is
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: when you're having a child, this happens in isolation. This
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: happens when you create boundaries. In many Hispanic homes, there
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: are no boundaries. You start acting up, they will take
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: the door off of the hinge. No boundary, no door,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: no privacy. These are customary things. And you have your baby, good.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: His mom's coming. Your mom's coming first.
• 40:24
  Speaker 8: Right?
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: That's how it is. I grew up with my grandmother
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: in the home until I was 11 or 12 years old.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: And then she passed away. There is no such thing
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: as the nursing home. This is not a concept to
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: many Hispanic families. They have to live with us. And
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: when you have that built-in, I call it built-in babysitter,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: but what it really is built-in familial support. It's a
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: game changer. You no longer have this feeling of overwhelm
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: because the experienced mom says, oh, look, she's crashing out.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: Let me help her. And everybody's on their P's and Q's.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Guess what? If you live in a home with your
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: mother-in-law in it, that husband's going to be extra helpful. Yes, dear. Now,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: these are the examples that I can make from what
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: I know, from my own experiences, from my life, right?
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: My mom was around. Her mom was around. My ex-wife.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: And these were good things, excellent things. And I'm not
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: faulting anybody if they don't have that. I'm sure there's
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: a lot of people that don't have that family or
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: they're in a different place and they've moved and whatever.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: But my point is there's a commitment to success. There's
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: a plan. They didn't have a plan here. And that's
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: becoming too normal, right? When you're not part of a
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: church and you don't go to the same place every
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Sunday and say hello to so-and-so so they can know
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: your business and they can gossip about you and blah, blah, blah.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Those are the same people that are going to be like, hey, listen,
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: if you need anything and who knows, maybe one out
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: of 10 of those, if you need anything, will actually
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: mean it and will help you when you need a
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: ride here, when you need a ride there. And again,
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I'm probably one of the proudest guys out here.
• 42:13
  Speaker 8: Right?
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: Pride comes before the fall. I get that. I'm learning
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: that lesson. Even if I needed help, I wouldn't ask
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: for it. It's just how I am. It's not a
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: good thing. But it is what it is. And I'm
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: learning to be better at accepting help when needed. Even
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: if it's silly little things. Because you can't do everything
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: on your own. And I learned that as a caregiver
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: to my dad and my mom. Those were brutal times
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: for me. I had just gotten divorced, moved out, and
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: started living on my mother's couch because she asked me
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: to before I even moved out. She wasn't feeling well,
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: and she needed help at night going to the bathroom,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: and lucky me, I was the guy that got the job.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: And it was uncomfortable for me, and right away I was,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: you know, just like, man, this sucks. But ultimately, you
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: learn a lot about what it is to get stretched
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: thin caring for someone, whether it's children or adult parents
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: that are elderly or infirmed. And you learn that you
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: have to stick together. I don't want to get on
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: my soapbox too much about that, but that's just the
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: reality here. And if we learn nothing else from this
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: Lindsay Clancy thing, it's that it takes a village. And
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: some people don't like the takes a village idiom because
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: it sounds communistic, right? Like a collectivist idea. And I'm
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: sure you can make that case. But when it comes
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: to child rearing, you need all hands on deck. My children,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: and I thank God for them, they had their grandparents involved.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: We had our church family involved. There was a children's
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: ministry director named Denise Silva. Gospel Tabernacle Church, North Bergen,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: New Jersey. This woman is an angel. She is a godsend.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: I went to lunch with her probably about a year ago.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: My daughter was 24 years old, I think at the time.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: She's 25 now. And we wanted to celebrate, you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: seeing her and just catching up with her and thank
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: her for the blessings that she, you know, poured into
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: both my daughter's lives and But I happened to be
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: at that lunch with the older daughter. The younger daughter
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: had to work. Take two. The Vacation Bible School. That
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: was a tongue twister that my kids went to. It
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: taught them a lot of things about how to see
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: their faith as children in the world that we live in.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: These were all things that I didn't teach them. I
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: might have reinforced it, but they learned it from their
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: church family. And it got reinforced at home. And they
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: knew to respect the elders and to respect their grandmas
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: and to help their grandpa because he always needed help
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: with something. And that was what family looked like. And
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: I'm sure that they have their own traumas and their
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: own moments of saying, that's not fair. This isn't cool.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: My friends don't have to do this type of thing.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: But guess what? That's exactly how it goes. So keep
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: that in mind.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: Anyway.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Too mushy for me, but this was a heavy topic
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: and one of those things where I think we need
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: to have these conversations. We need to bring things back
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: to godliness, right? There's nothing wrong with the Ten Commandments.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: And I get it. Some people want to leave God
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: for the wayside, but living your life with God is
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: much easier than living it without God. Living your life
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: and making a family easier with God than without God.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Raising a child. So much easier with Jesus than without.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: That's it. The proof is in the pudding. All right. Anyway,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: that's all my thoughts for today. And something I always
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: say to wrap up is that you've got to stand
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: for something because if you stand for nothing, you'll fall
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: for anything. And the only thing necessary for evil to
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: triumph is for good people like you to sit there
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: and do nothing. So do something. Hasta la proxima. Take care.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Good night. And God bless you, America. I'm Rich Valdez,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: and this is America.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: This is America. This is America.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you.