Latest / Adeptli's Podcast / What Clients Never See: Inside the Engine Room of an Advice Firm

Transcript

What Clients Never See: Inside the Engine Room of an Advice Firm · Adeptli's Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: And welcome to the Adeptly Podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: At Adeptly, we work alongside advisors and advice firms, providing hands-on technical, operational and strategic support to help them deliver good advice and run stronger businesses.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: In this series, we explore the trends, challenges, and questions impacting financial advisors and advice firms across the UK with practical insight from people working at the heart of the industry.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Clear thinking, real experience, and honest conversation.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get into it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_07: Today we're joined by Thomas Kelly and Sean Matheson.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_07: Thomas is director of Operation At William Janes, and Sean is managing director of Meta.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_07: Both have worked in the financial services industry for a number of years, and we're really happy that they're both joining us today.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_07: What makes this episode interesting is that we're going to focus on what's going on inside the engine room of an advice firm and all the operations which sit alongside it.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_07: So to kick off with, would you like to tell us a bit about your experience?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_07: Sham, would you like to go first?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_07: And the firm you work for.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: Fine.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I have uh been in financial services for uh longer than we're going to acknowledge today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um but I started in bank assurance um as an advisor and then moved to St.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: James's Place uh 2017.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I worked initially for the corporate, um, have gone through uh RDR, consumer duty, number of things.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and in 2022 I stepped out of the corporate and into the role at Meta Advisors.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I'd worked with them as a conduit and a partner practice.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but Adam, who was the founding member, wanted to build a for more structured and efficient operation, um, a business that could scale to manage multiple advisors and reach a 10-year succession planning point.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that's four years in, sort of somehow somewhere along the line.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, constant change, uh, constant challenge, but lots of fun.
• 2:22
  unknown: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_07: And just give us an idea of the scale of meta.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_07: So advisors, uh support staff, how many?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: Currently seven advisors, um, and only three employed staff.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: We outsource our power planning.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so some kind of self-employed contracts, uh 740 million under management at the moment across around 650 client households.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, amazing.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_07: How do you compare, Thomas?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I was just trying to mentally add up how many advisors we've got.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's um I uh I lose count um because with the of the of the growth.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But we um William James has nine advisors at the moment, um, and there's a total of 31 in the team.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's a the difference with the the the SJP model is that um all the the compliance, all the risk, all the T and C, everything is is is in-house.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: We do in we do have um we have external support with PowerPlan, but we have an internal power planning team that do the majority of what we do.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it is it is different.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, it's uh it it's it's challenging.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I I use the phrase growing pains, um, that it's kind of um the business is only three years old, so it's just over three years old.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um February 23 got permissions from um the FCA um and it's grown from what was then three people in the beginning to 31 in that time, so it's um it's quite a lot of growth.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: My my background is is is is is I'm gonna guess longer than Sean's in financial services.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: I had I I uh for my sins left school and went into financial services, so I'm I'm kind of uh um it's it's been a long time in financial services, various roles, worked in high street banks, I've worked for a um uh what was then a major SIP provider um and um both IFAs and the time uh within an SJP practice as well, so quite a wide ranging um career.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's um I just enjoy helping get things right for clients.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that that that's that's the main thing.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Put the client first, then work out how you get it right for them.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: So have either of you actually ever been in roles where you've directly advised clients yourselves?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, both of you.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Which do you prefer, the advising or behind the scenes?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um if I tell you I spent five years advising and I've probably spent 30 years.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's the answer.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Not advising.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is the answer, yeah.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think that I like whichever one I'm not doing at the time.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_07: Um and I suppose what's interesting today is obviously Thomas Shaw.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_07: Not tied to a larger network organization, but Sean, um you are do if we look into that a bit, what what do you think the strength, Sean, of being in the model which you are tied to SJP?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's a lot, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a lot that you can take for granted every day because until you step out into the IFA world, I don't think you even know.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but the from a from a client experience, we talk a lot about the best of both worlds.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: We get to operate as a small, kind of bespoke, client-focused firm without worrying about a lot of the regulatory legislation stuff that's already happening, the compliance is safe.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_04: And even in the client experience, their ability to deal with us in that way that you can only achieve from a smaller firm whilst having the security, the kind of backing, the mandates, the advice guarantee of a FTSE 100 slash 250 slash 100 firm.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_07: And do you recognise some of that as the weaknesses of not being tied to a larger organization?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, I mean, I think there's there's a lot more similarities than there are differences.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that that's what that's what I would say.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: We um I'm fortunate, I consider myself quite a lucky person.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fortunate that the the people that I'm working with, uh this is this is not their first rodeo.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: They've um the so the people are a very, very experienced team, very experienced people um who've been through dealing directly with the FCA to get regulation dealt with, uh, investigations directly with the FCA, sitting them in a room with the with the with with the with the mic microscope on them.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I know that we have the experience to deal with what we need to deal with.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm always breaking things down.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And my team, my team will say, I I'll just say, okay, so we we need somebody to deal with this, we need somebody to deal with that, we need somebody to deal with that.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna do that?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do you need to do that?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Break it down.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I see the the regulation um part, the T the T and C everything that's kind of, if you like, provided by SJP as the as as the as the the larger organization.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we do.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have we have processes, we have procedures, we have external support that helps us.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just different.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um the biggest difference, I would say, is that at the end of that, the advice journey is very, very similar.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very, very similar advice journey.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just when you get to the end, an independent advisor is able to say which product provider to use, um, and perhaps freer choice on the investment funds that get chosen at the end of it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's I I find the two having worked in both, the similarities are massive and the differences are are relatively small.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_07: And I suppose in reality, I'm not necessarily saying this in terms of your firm, but in reality, a lot of tied, uh non-tide firms have a centralized investment proposition with one or two providers on, anyway.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_07: So actually you can start going even in the product space, is that actually that much different from tied and non-tied?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's that's and that's a topic for another.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It might it it might be the the the interesting thing is it's almost it's been it's semi-driven that way from the the the way the the way the regulation is in consumer duty, the responsibilities from consumer duty mean that we're we we have to do certain things in a certain way.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: There is an expectation of a certain amount of consistency.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: There is a so when you when you try and build that you you you take a step back from that and look at what that looks like, and it looks like well, we need to make sure our clients are only using providers that we trust, which means you're you're you're removing a number of providers from the the potential choice because there's some that I won't I won't I won't name them, but it there are some that I wouldn't trust.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um so your choices are restricted.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_07: And then in terms of both of you are ultimately responsible for the day-to-day operations of your organizations allegedly.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_07: So in one word, how what would you sum up your responsibility as Sean in your firm?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: The client experience.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_06: And in your mind, where does that be the beginning and end?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: My job is to make sure that the beginning and the end is all consistent.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: That you know what we say on that day one when you meet the client is what's delivered at point of sale and ongoing, that it's authentic, it does what it's supposed to in the right way.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm gonna see you said one word, I'm not I'm not doing I'm not doing one word.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_07: I remember the sentence, so Sean didn't think, Wow, to give me more than one word.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I I very often don't use one word, I very rarely would use one word, but I I see it as being getting the right people doing the right things with the right tools at the right time.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that's my so it's kind of the people are good at some people are good at some things, some people are good at other things.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: They'll get the right people doing the right things and then support them with the right tools so that they can do their job.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's what I see as an and and leading and leading them to do to do that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I aim for, is that my team will there's there's some things in my team will be expecting if they watch this, they'll they'll they'll be expecting me to say, and that's one of them.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_07: And I think from a client perspective, so often they just see the advisor, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_07: It it feels like it's a very one-to-one relationship.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_07: Actually, the reality is the operations in your firms are so much more complex than just an advisor and client.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh advisors and and they know this because I do tell I do say to them, they're very good at some things.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in general, there are some exceptions, they're also very bad at doing so at doing something.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So an advisor can go and talk to a client, engage with a client, um, have MPW client understand what they're talking about, they can take complex information and explain it to a client in a way that they can understand it, they can persuade clients to do things that they perhaps don't necessarily see are the right thing for them because they the the advisor knows it's the right thing for them, um, but they may not be able to do the the the level of detail, the accuracy that's needed in the in the in the in the processing of something that uh of with financial services.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: You um I don't I I've said this yesterday as well.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: My team at Explain nobody dies if we if if if we don't get a piece of paperwork right, no one dies.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're not we're not doctors, we're not saving people's lives.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but people lose money and that can be precious to people.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: If we get something wrong, money gets lost, and that can that can upset people.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Advisors aren't necessarily the best people at getting all that precision in the detail.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them will be swearing at the camera now at me if they if if they're watching me, but but in in a general term, they they need help to get them in the position that that they're in so they can go and sit in front of their client knowing the information's right, they're on solid ground, and they've had help to devise what the solution might be to the client's objectives.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: I often liken it to a stage production.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Is the person out on stage, but if you've got dodgy scenery painters or script writers or people who sold the tickets in the first place, you can be as good as you are on the stage, but there might not be anyone watching.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've heard a description of a hotel, like a like like a hotel.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: The people that you see at a hotel, the receptionist who greets you, the waiter who serves you in the restaurant.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of what you remember, if you think of a hotel when you've had a really good experience in a hotel, um, how much of it is it is it what is it?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is it was it great food, great facilities, um, comfortable room, whatever.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't see the person that's made that room look like that and be that comfortable, the person who decided which beds to buy and mattresses.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't see that, but you see the person at reception who gives you a nice work and gives you a nice drink.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But and that's I'm not saying the advisors are like receptionists at a hotel, but but it's yeah, that's a description I've heard before.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_07: And I think in in all of those examples that there's a lot of complexity, and that's no different in our industry as people responsible for the operations in a complex industry, complex businesses.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_07: How do you go about managing that, Sean?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I think there is a very healthy tension, if you get it right, between um the regulatory responsibilities, the complexity of advice, and the ease of the client experience.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: So it's the old iceberg analogy, isn't it?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the client is is looking at the iceberg on the top.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: That might be the the recommendation or the advisor.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: Use the analogy as you choose.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, all the stuff that's under the surface, if the client has to get involved in that, understand that, crawl through that, ultimately they could just DIY.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so we work hard, I think, um, to always look at every type of process, the complexity in the operation from the angle of the regulator, the angle of the advisor, and the angle of the client experience.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: You have to spend time really testing and building any process robustly to get the right outcome.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because if the foundations are good and you kind of don't just take what appears to be the easy option, um, you can then scale it, you can tweak it and adapt it, it can grow with you.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, where I've seen it not work, no names mentioned, um, is where uh a process is put in place for that, and then a process is put in place for that, and then and all of the little changes, little things that come along, little responses to legislation or regulatory framework all pile up, and suddenly what you've then got isn't a complex process, it's a mess.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you can't operate in that way.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: That that ultimately impacts the ability of the advisor and the experience of the client.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_07: And I suppose the added complexity you might have over what Thomas has is you've also got the network involved who may have their own view on some of that and put some certain parameters in for you as well.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I think you know, we've talked about maybe the the benefit of working within the network and the restricted advice piece.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it comes with as much drawback as opportunity, right?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Because the FCA is principal-led, which means as a firm, what you're doing is interpreting the principle and applying it.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: And um there are a few layers that we go through in terms of SJP as the authorized firm and their interpretation before it comes to us as the AR and our interpretation.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: Not always quite the same.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we have to build our process, be authentic to it, but always consider our contract has to not only reflect what we think the FCA and our clients want, but what SJP need us to do as well.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_07: And do you have anything to add to that?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it it it is this we're in a position where we're quite agile still, we're still small enough and agile, and the the the the distance between decision making is kind of it I can happen much quicker.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if if we if we get a feedback that says that there's this issue or we need to look at an interpretation of something, um we can very quickly get that guidance we need from an external expert if we need if we need it, but we can act we can act quite quickly, and I think that that was probably which is good and bad again because because if we act quickly and then and then realise uh actually we should have taken our time with it, then then then then it's better to take your take your time.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's it it's difficult to um get everything completely right when you when it went with with the regular, it's very, very complicated.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason we're in a job is because financial services is so complicated in this country.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not uh it's not an easy easy game.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't you will make mistakes, everyone will make mistakes, but you use the word principles a second ago, which is that and that's and that's really what you need need to find.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: As an example, um we talked about the the the the the if you like the the limited number of providers we would want to use, but um it's with with the same with funds if you you know there are thousands and thousands and thousands of funds.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the principles that we employ um to decide which funds we should use.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have a s there's a central investment proposition which is which which gives us a certain l level to it, but then there's you can have principles, but there's no there's no one solution to everything.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in regulate in the regulation it's it's the it's the same.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: One person, as you said, and SJP may have a different answer to what you what would you would interpret it too, but you have to deal with what SJP say.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: The ultimate judge will be if the FCA ever come and ask the question.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's if we get asked the question by the FCA and we've we've taken the wrong interpretation, then that's on me.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It would be on SJP for you.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's and that's a difference.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_07: A benefit, that's why I look younger.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_07: Ouch.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_07: So um moving on a bit, we spent we've touched briefly on that client relationship in being with the advisor.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_07: Obviously, you're you're both in growing firms.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_07: Do you still stick to that one client to one advisor model, or have you got to the point yet where you're looking at different ways of being able to grow and manage more clients with advisors?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_07: How is it working currently for you guys?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: We I mean we at the moment we are still one uh one dedicated administrator to to a to an advisor.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're looking at the the growth in a in a couple of ways.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um one is to provide a a role which is the leap between um administrator to power planner to anyone who wants to go and be an advisor.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's leaps there that happen, and the leap between paraplanner and advisor is um massive um to go from one to the other.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at the um I I should probably have thought of a better title, but we're looking at a role that fills that gap.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we have we were experimenting with that to some degree.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: The moment we have a guy that does a really great job of being the person that goes with the advisor and does a lot of their work.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at how you support them now.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: That should mean that we we need less people eventually to um to deal with the the nuts and bolts administration.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the moment we're one-to-one, um, power planning is different.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: What we have is I I like the advisors to know who they're going to.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if the advisor is saying, I've got this issue and I want to discuss it with somebody around what advice I'm going to give to this client, I want them to know that they can ring up their person.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they all have their person they can go to.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we've we've settled what um with a triage process, which basically means they know who it is.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a power planner that's dedicated to them that they can go and talk to and talk about their cases.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the power planners then work within we'll work within a pool because advisors get busy at different times.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're we're kind of split in that way that at the moment, administrative-wise, it's advisor has an administrator.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_07: And I I'm guessing because of the principles you talk about there, the same is true of your clients have an advisor rather than they're not a William James client, and they will get any advisor.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is they they they have their advisor, yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the where that's um changing slightly is in that model where I'm talking about that that that in-between role, the assistant advisor, if you like, that role is to start so there's a little bit of transition that can happen there, and that it it won't always be the advisor.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that meeting will be with the assistant advisor, um, but with the the advisor knowing what's going on but not having to attend on occasion.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that that's help that's helping the clients get more contact um with somebody who knows what they're talking about because he's a fully qualified advisor.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: He knows he's got all his exams, he knows what he's doing, but he's just not yet able to go and fly on his own.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Do most of your power planners and support staff want to progress up to a advice role, or have you got some who are happy to say, No, I don't I never want to give advice.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to be a you know developers, a technician.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: It it is a mix and it's had and you'll probably you'll come across the the different types of characters and you can kind of almost tell the types of characters it is.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: There are some there are some power planners who you know just want to sit in a dark room and keep doing their thing.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's That just keep keep writing reports, keep readables, and and they and they love doing it.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they could do that, but that but that but that's what they want to do.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there are others who kind of think, I quite like the idea of being an ad uh an advisor.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: We have a mix.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are the the the there's that there's one or two within that group that that we can see maybe they want to progress into into more the advice role.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it might be um I don't it it is seen, and I I I'm an example, I like to think I'm an example, having tried advice and come away to an administrative role.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: That I try and encourage people that you can be really good at at being an administrator.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't I think there's a a feeling that the only way you can go and be successful in this industry is to go and be an advisor.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you start as an administrator, you become a power plan, then you become an advisor.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I think it's seen.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that's change, I think that's changing a bit though.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Do you see the same, Sean?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: You've got people who are saying, I don't want, do they all want to be an advisor, or some saying that wouldn't really be for me?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: So to um Thomas's earlier point in terms of skill sets and common traits, it's not universal, um, but generally what makes you good as an advisor will make you bad at some technical roles.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so we have we've followed that path.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: We've had a lot of graduates that have come in to do administration because they want to be an advisor and because that's the pinnacle of success.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: And funny enough, none of them have been particularly strong or motivated by the administration and power planning.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we actively now seek to recruit back office and administrative staff that don't want to be advisors.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: I think they're different journeys.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we have a similar challenge.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think the gap between having some exams and being a good advisor.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: So we've started a kind of development employed servicing role, which might be quite similar actually to what um you're describing.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I've always believed that the operation, business management, and strategy is as important, if not more, than the advisor relationship.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think that the industry now is recognizing that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, SJP.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I've obviously been a technician through and through and always throughout my career.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: When are you going to be an advisor?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't want to be an advisor.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I I think industry-wide it's probably the same, but for SJP, it's been like a 180.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: Because their personal experience with kind of the history of record keeping and everything else that's happened, I think, has demonstrated that you know what happens in front of the client is 30%.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: And unless you've got the right quality and skill in the background, your business won't succeed and won't have ongoing value.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's really nice because then you can start to reward those roles and people can achieve financial remuneration, status, whatever it is that they want without feeling the only answer is to go out and be, you know, the super striker up the front.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_07: And I I think probably the reality is when you look at that over 70%, it can have just a big impact on the relationship of that client with your business than the actual 30% of the advisor directly with the client, can it?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: It can.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: And actually, to come back to your last question then, Jamie, I think one advisor, one client is a very dangerous model.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um because it just represents so much risk.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Whether that is risk of advisor retiring, leaving, um, going to a different firm, not fully delivering the culture.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, there's so many different angles here.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so we are actively working through our kind of redesigning the client segmentation and the client experience in Meta with one eye on kind of the increasing AI presence, another eye on that kind of implementation of the consumer duty and the fees and value piece.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_04: And we're looking at what client gets what.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: So if you like a very straightforward something that might future sit in simplified advice, do they need a named advisor?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, also, are all of my advisors equally skilled and capable in all areas of holistic advice?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: Some absolutely love trust and estate planning, some are really good at business owner and protection.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: So for our high value clients, we've already started, you know, uh having more than one advisor.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then bringing in a, you know, your your named advisor might be Chloe.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: But actually, when you want um trust planning, we're gonna bring Steve because he's got particular experience in this, or pensions would be Elliot because he's worked here for many years.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and to create for the client that idea of value is more than a person, isn't it?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's context, it's safety.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: And for the client, yes, I can talk to you, I can have a relationship and not need to start every time, but also I can feel safe that if you're not there, there's something else.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's not a oh, my advice is gone, so I've got no connection now to Meta.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it could be anywhere.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I've got enough faces, enough names, enough kind of links into that that I feel part of Meta, not just Chloe's client.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_07: That's quite an interesting take because the the traditional one you see in the cynic in me says it's was always around the model, but initial advisors and ongoing advisors, and the ongoing advisors were typically the less skilled, salaried advisors, and you could work out your profit margins on it, and that's that's that's like cynic in me.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_07: Um but yeah, so that's an interesting take about talking around aligning advisors based on their almost advice skill sets.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: But Thomas, at the moment, in your firm, it's very much Yeah, at the stage we're at in the growth and the growth of the firm, it's it's very advisor-driven, but we are we're acutely aware, and there's really good points that Sean raises, that it's it's trying to make them a William James client, not a Fred client.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: None of their names came to me now.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: But you're just being tactfully discreet.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: But we do have advisors that are better at certain things, and we do twin them up.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if there is if if there is a need for um a little bit more expertise around, as you as you say, the the estate planning or business plan.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably the two best examples of it, as you as you said.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: That it's kind of there are people who really know what they're doing with um with IHT and estate planning, and there are people who really know what they're doing around a business.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if they need help with that, then they're there.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: There is an experienced group of advisors to to to come from to help the client, um, and an experienced group of power planners to help the advisor come back and make sure that they're in the they're in the right place.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_07: Have you got any examples, Sean, of in that model which maybe it hasn't worked with the client or has it?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, you're nodding, so yes.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I think when I um when I initially joined, and the reason probably we still have such a compact back office in terms of staffing levels, um, is there'd been a very large acquisition, doubled sort of the the client bank um in March 2020, which was a week before the lockdown.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's joyful.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so the two businesses had come together, some um administrative staff had come in, and then they'd not seen each other for 18 months.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um when I joined in 22, they still were operating ultimately as two entirely separate businesses with separate processes under one umbrella.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_04: It was jarring.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that also coincided with the sudden realization that um annual reviews had needed to be recorded annually.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um who knew it's funny that um and so there was a a process of of kind of across St.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: James's place, I think, a real ongoing advice is generally et cetera to being given.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: Clients were happy, um, but this kind of documented suitability review just with the systems weren't in place.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: So CRM tool had been recently engaged, and it was a it was a kind of real, like mad panic, let's call it what it was, to kind of get clients who didn't want to do it to come in and do these reviews.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we we created initial segmentation, and if the client was of a um more reactive or you know closed-off nature, I'm I'm not really interested to just like let's do the bare minimum.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we would say to them, look, well, an individual named advisor is uh part of the contract.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_04: So if you don't have need for that, we won't give you that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: So if you want a named advisor, what we're asking from you is your time and your investment into the conversation sharing your goals and your objectives.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_04: You don't need to.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: We can we can work on a more kind of transactional basis, but we're not then going to give you a named advisor.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: All seemed fine at the outset with the clients.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but as you know, I'm sure you can guess, two years, three years into that, you've got clients going, I just see someone different every year.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: So it didn't work, although it did, because what it's given us is that opportunity to say to a client, well, what would have what would have been the benefit to seeing the same person?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, a relationship.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_04: So then we can find out more about you.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: So it has nothing is perfect.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we've also had at the other end lots of learns if you start to bring additional advisors into a relationship, so particularly um at our high end, thinking now like some of our team might want to be hanging up their boots in the next five years, and there's extremely high net worth of clients there.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's not that's not handover in six months or a year, is it?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: So you bring other advisors into the room now and start to kind of very slowly.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but sometimes advisors have different ideas on the advice.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's the point of the CF30, and so that raises complexity then around the planning and um there's egos, surprisingly.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it it's all learning, um, it's never perfect.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_07: And that's the different views on advice is an interesting one because if you're growing through acquisition and you've almost got someone else to blame, and you can almost sell yourself, but when it's in the same firm and there's that difference of opinion, that becomes much harder to manage, I imagine.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: And and I also find this perspective of, oh, it was acquisition, so it's someone else's fault, is becoming a hard um case to argue anyway, because every year that you go out and provide ongoing advice, your signature at the bottom of that letter is saying, Yeah, I'm really happy that all of the advice in the current setup is appropriate for you.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_04: So when you find out four years after you've been providing ongoing advice that, oh, that trust that Bob sold 20 years ago, that wasn't right.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um we've been taking a fee here, guys, for four years.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so healthy debate.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's what we encourage.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_07: And in all of the sort of models we're talking about, whether it's assistant advisors or power planners being involved or different advisors for different clients, that the client relationship is feels uh in these examples, but also the wider industry, is starting to change a bit because it has always been quite a direct one-to-one relationship in your business and being responsible for the operations, both of you.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_07: How do you go about still making sure that client relationship with the firm is still strong and that client's gonna stay?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_07: And being on how are these changes morphing into what you've got to do from an operations point of view, I suppose, is so we I don't my thing is there's ne nothing more powerful than hearing from your client, hearing what the client actually says.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we we actually have a client care team, um, which amongst their responsibilities, um, they they schedule almost all of the appointments for for the advisors.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a um they get the clients actually get used to hearing the same voice ringing up and saying, Oh, it's me again.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm calling to book your your review meeting in.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they also make calls after the review meetings have happened.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: We were considering doing surveys, but how many surveys do people get um now?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what we've what we've asked, what I've tasked than we're doing is calling clients six weeks after the review has happened, when things have have happened, if there's follow-up work, it's been done, calling them and just saying, how was that?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um using the pillars of the of the consumer duty to try and pin some some questions to try and steer towards it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what do what do they value?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, what what was valuable about it?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: What did they not like about the were there things that they they they didn't really we did, but they kind of thought, I don't know why you do that.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did they understand everything?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Was it all clear?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Was the communication good?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Was the you know, did they speak to the administrator after or before the meeting as as as well?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So try and there's a the there's a tea there's a team there.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: So those calls are they they're they're ongoing on a on our program and we're we're capturing all we're capturing all the feedback.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really useful feedback hearing what the clients are actually saying to us about what went on.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I will say is the thread throughout is the what they value the most is being able to sit down with their advisor and have a conversation with someone they trust.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of you if I pull one thing out of the hundreds of calls that we've made, that's it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: They they value that trust relationship with their advisor, and and and we have to, you know, we respect that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we those calls can introduce the fact that there is a team here as well.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's I'm here, I'm booking you, you know, I'm calling you now, I've booked your meeting in.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's also the administrators doing all the hard work to get things ready for the advisor to come and see you for the meeting.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because e each meeting is you s you you schedule you have to you have to see who needs to be scheduled, you schedule it, you prepare for it, the advisor goes and does it, then there's the stuff that comes afterwards.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of and that all of that gets explained in the call.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of they get to see that there's a lot more going going on.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it is the the and that tells me, and it it's it's really interesting because we can then react really quickly to some of the some of the feedback.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you know, one feedback was that the advisor was doing a calculation on his calculator and something on a piece of paper while he was in the meeting, and I'm kind of why is he why is he doing that?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we changed the the preparation that we do to make sure that the advice this is the client saying, I wish you'd do something to help him because he's having to do all this on a calculator in the meeting.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going, whoa, hang on, we've got the tools to do this, let's make this happen.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need you know, so but it's but it's you you nothing more powerful than hearing from your clients directly what they're feeling, um, and not score as one to five on this on a on a survey.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is a conversation with somebody who they've already spoken to, who they already know, asking them what it was like, how was it?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_07: I mean we've sort of started verging into process there, and so let's let's let's talk about that for a while.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um he's gonna talk about it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_07: He's not gonna avoid it, he's gonna go for it now.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_07: Um, well, with the advisors, whether they're in a network or independent.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_07: Well, one of the things we often hear from the advisors we work with is it's not their advice or their relationships with clients which is the issue when something goes wrong.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_07: It's the process, and often, you know, advisors will refer to process being more about brocc bureaucracy rather than actually helping them.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_07: Um how do you guys find that in your firms?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: I can tell you.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um I can tell you what is in my mind the root cause of everything that goes wrong.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_07: Um and it's clearly not your good processes, is it Sean?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's communication and how we communicate.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um because the only person that knows currently what goes on in that conversation between client and advisor is the advisor.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um how that information is translated out of one mind into whatever system, calculator, tool or process is ultimately the factor that determines ease and success or problems and bureaucracy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because what the process often does that I think advisors see as bureaucratic is the process stops things from going really wrong.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because you try and get through the process and it just goes, no, it's annoying because it slows things down, it doesn't get the client the the answer they want, but ultimately what it is stopping is you doing the wrong thing and the client suffering actual financial detriment further down the line.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: So the the piece that I am, if any of my team were to listen to this, um obsessed by on a daily basis is we don't pay attention to the way that we communicate, we don't give the information enough respect, time and space for the process to work.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: That's what goes wrong.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: If they'd just listen to me, it would be fine.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_07: And Thomas, do you need more people to listen to you as well?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I wish they would.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was smiling because um I I I've joked regularly and the number goes up every time I tell this story, but it it is kind of it's now I think I've spent 30 years of my life trying to work out how the hell to get information out of an advisor's head into the hands of the administrator correctly, efficiently, so that they can actually get on and do and do the job.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We had um we have um monthly meetings with the advisors and with all of the support team, and they and the the advisors meeting last week, they said um we're becoming too process driven.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that and that and I and I kind of and I love it, it's like it's a great throwaway line.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: What what does that actually mean?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's the process is stopping them doing something that they want to do.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's it so there's so it's usually and and there will be a reason why the process is there.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it so I it goes back to the communication, me being better at communicating with them about why I'm asking them to do that.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at the and me understanding what it is they have an issue with um in the first place.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm yet I'm still in the discovery stage of why somebody is now saying we're that at this moment in time it was last it was last week.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've not actually been told exactly what process it is that's that's causing the issue.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can guess, but I need them to tell me exactly what it is so that I can explain, okay, this is why we do it, and and it could and you you're right, it stops things, it stops things going wrong.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I've I've seen multiple examples where we have a a concession process, which is kind of there, you know, if the if this doesn't fit in our nice, neat, principled box, they have to come to me with evidence over why they should it should go in in not in the box and can continue.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they send that in, and that's the one I think they have the most, they have the most problem with because I'm asking them to explain to me exactly why they want to do something that doesn't look like it's quite right.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I don't actually argue with many of them once they actually present it to them, but the fact of me asking them to do it is making them think harder about it, it's making them document it better, it's making the client get a better result just by making them think about it.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't say no a lot.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have said no in the past, and I've stopped them doing an encashment from the wrong place that would have led to a tax problem because they hadn't thought about the tax calculation.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's it it sort of it it stops clients being uh it's a phrase the the phrase foreseeable harm from consumer duty is kind of like how many harms are actually foreseeable?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite a strange phrase I always find.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where's where's your crystal ball?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of at some points there is a line that you can kind of see it straying over, and that that line in that case I was talking about is it's kind of like okay, I can now see that if we go ahead with what we're we're saying, I can see there would be tax consequences.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are obvious.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's headed for disaster.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so it I I it's trying to stop foreseeable harm in a lot of cases, the processes.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_07: And we've opened the box a bit on handovers, and it is seems to be the bane of everyone's life.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_07: As as you say, you've um worked for 30 years and not cracked it yet.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_07: Well, do either of you have examples of where you think you've made improvements?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_07: Improvements to the handover process, which has had a tangible benefit to the film.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_07: And oh, because ultimately, if you get it right up front, it makes it a lot easier down the line, doesn't it?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_07: But in your roles, have either of you made any changes in your films to that process to improve it?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting right to the heart, isn't it?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have I done my job?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: It has some evidence.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be on a performance improvement plan by the end of it.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the yeah, I I I believe I do have an example of this because and it and it and it's been workshops a little bit, a little bit round.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: I um spoke with the power planners and the power planners, and the administrators were telling me that the instructions coming out of the meetings weren't clear enough.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay, you're going to need to show me specific examples.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I asked them for actual fact finds and whatever notes had been handed over, and I anonymized them and took them to the next advisor meeting, split them up, handed them out, and said, Okay, you're all going to tell me what the advice is that you've given.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Here is what you've got.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And universally, none of them could do it.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of advisors are a particular breed, and you you kind of have to you do there is a way of you mentioned ego earlier, and I hope I there will some of them will watch it, and you don't all have a bad ego, guys.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but it's kind of actually showing them what the problem is.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we took a step of saying you're going to need to improve the notes.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we produced a a sort of a short summary document that says we want you to summarize it on here, and then we still then had a we went through another cycle of um some advisors saying, I'm just repeating what I've put in the fact find document um on this form now, and it's a pain in the neck.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they were just writing C fact find on the on the note form.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so half repeating the exercise and saying, okay, so I so then I printed them the full fact find because what they're asking is that the power planner has now got to read a 47-page fact find to try and pick out what they think the advisor is going to recommend to the client or wants to recommend to the client.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we repeat the exercise and say, okay, there's your fact find, and and the same answer.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: They can go, okay, I'm not reading all that exactly.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have now reached a point where there's it, where there's a there's a there's a one page which it it it's really simple, it just says this is the client, this is the type of report that we that we want, and one, two, three bullet points, that's what I'm advising.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: High high level, that's what I'm advising.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: If they want the detail, it's in the fact find.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: They can go and read the detail, but they need to know whether they're reading the pension section or the investment section or the estate planning section or the protection section, which section is the advice in.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: So just a summary.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it has helped a lot, and we're still refining it, we're still working on it, and we're we're now trying to use um co-pilot um to help us generate it so they can just do the this is what we're on in the meeting.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Copilot can help them do their summary of this is what you this is what you've said.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it means it's trying to reduce the time that the advisors are spending on it.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think AI is probably transformational in this space.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um we have I mean, we've turned everything on its head.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: Why not?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um we've done those.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: Uh here is our workflow.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_04: You tell me what we're gonna do.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: Can you proceed?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like we didn't even anonymize it, I don't think.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_04: Brutal.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but so very similar place.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh when I started, um, there were a lot of handover documents.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and what that meant was the advisor was spending 20 minutes, half an hour after a meeting completing a handover document that they were submitting through on Microsoft Forms that the back office were then going into the CRM tool to try and translate and figure out what boxes it should be in, then going back to the advisor to say your handover says this, but Salesforce says this, where do I put it?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_04: Then the advisor was like, I don't know because I don't know Salesforce.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then it would come to us and we'd write a letter, and then it it was it was so much duplication.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's all with fantastic intention, because the intention is free the advisor up to be in front of the client.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: But although we were saving them a small amount of time by allowing them to do a handover document, if you looked at the end-to-end process time, the number of errors and a rework, the number of times that the advisor was called back in to fix something, it became clear to us that ultimately the advisor needed to directly update the CRM.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: And if that was done appropriately, then everything else flowed.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: So we had a we did have kind of pushback.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: We had um slower adoption in some than others, but everyone understood that you know this is what we need to do.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_04: Once the CRM and the Fat Find is is accurately complete and the client needs section is full.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we had a like an AI report writing tool that then does the annual review letter.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: So if it's it's new business, obviously different, but if it's coming out of a meeting and taking forward kind of actions, fund switches, things like this.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: It was so straightforward.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_04: And um was it an unintended benefit?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: I can claim credit for it if you want.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was intended, fully intended.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's part of my strategic plan.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, is although advisors we don't want them doing the administration, unless they understand the end-to-end, unless they know what the team in the back office have to do and the hurdles that they go through, they don't know what to ask the client in the first place and how to manage the client.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: So the more that each side of the business is educated about the role of the other, um, the better they work together.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I think that's helped us a lot with submission of workflows, the level of detail that comes in to help with the process.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and now the kind of transcription tool that we've got, so of AI note takers in the actual meetings, which solves all of those problems and opens up a host of new ones.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: We talked earlier about people coming up through the ranks with the different roles.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, that is one advantage because if you've come up from being an administrator to a power planner to an advisor, you do have a greater understanding of what it's like back in those other roles and what's required.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's just if processes have changed in the meantime.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Since you've been an advisor, perhaps you haven't quite appreciated it.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: They do have a better understanding.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I'd I've I've tried and failed to do more of walk a mile in my shoes because it goes this goes both ways.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it it is kind of that you spoke about a healthy tension earlier and it's kind of there's there is a healthy tension between the administrators and advisors that I've walked between for a for a long time.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes the to defend the advisors, um, I'll quote Mike Tyson that an administrator thinks that if they give a pack of paperwork to the advisor, the advisor can just walk into the meeting with the client, sit down at point number one on the on the administrator prepared agenda, walk through all of those things, get everything signed, um, all in the right places, and everything's fine.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: And as Mike Mike Tyson famously said, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: And an advisor walks into a client meeting.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: Your meetings must be excited.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Eric, the advisor walks in, the advisor says the client says something, you're off.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're not on point one anymore.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of it really it's a live environment.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where's human beings?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's a human being.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's good.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: So so it it it is sort of trying to find um the happy medium that people understand and and have an under have an understanding.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I heard I heard something yesterday and that I'm stealing stuff from everybody about positive intent.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like it is somebody's line, yeah.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of it it it it I think he's obviously managed to get it out onto social media over the last few days, this guy, whoever he is, but um it it's kind of people don't do things with bad intentions, do they?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Most people they do things so if the advisor hasn't got something signed and what about they didn't do it on purpose, it's kind of it's how we deal with it.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, stuff happens, we need to deal with it.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_07: And moving on, in terms of your roles and being able to oversee these firms which are both growing, recruiting, how how how do you keep on top of everything and eyes on everything and awareness of everything?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_07: Because the more successful you are, the harder your jobs must get, right?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in a way, um what I'm sort of trying my very best to learn is learn that there's a football saying that people are you a good coach or are you a good manager or are you a good player?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: And good players don't necessarily make good managers, but when when you go through a career like you learn from people.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've learned a lot from um the people that I've worked with.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've been fortunate again to work for a lot of people, very good bosses who've taught me lots.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm learning that I can't know everything.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it I have to trust the team that I've put in place and the art of delegation.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I I saw it yesterday.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: We had um the support team meeting on a um on a Teams call yesterday, which was an experiment because we generally try and do it face to face because we work remotely, so we like to get people together for that camaraderie.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's been really challenging to get a room big enough to fit everyone in and and actually have people engage.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we did it on Teams, and I'm going around the room and I'm and I'm looking at and then and asking them what challenges are we facing, how can we tackle them?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they raised something I'm kind of like thinking, I know the answer to this, but I'm not going to say it.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to sit here and I'm going to watch and wait and see how what solution they come up with.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually they're not.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even big-headed enough to say that they came up with my solution, but they did get a solution.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't need me to jump in and say, here's the answer you're looking for.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um they got an answer.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't what I would have done.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably better than what I would have said.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do this stuff every day.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one of my biggest learns is that I can't know everything.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know enough.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know when things aren't looking quite right.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I need to anticipate, and that's harder remotely.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was saying this yesterday.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you walk into an office, you can tell if somebody's had a late night, you can tell if somebody's had a bad day, you can tell you can you you can tell that's really hard.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they're just quiet and they're not on, they don't message anyone on Teams.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it it's they're just not there.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's hard.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to know enough to know to test the temperature and find where you can test the temperature, but you can't know everything when it grows.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to trust that the people you put in place will keep control of things, and my team generally do.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had an interesting quote the other day, which was if you do think you know everything, you can never improve because you're you're blocked off to any any change at all.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: So, I mean, if you think that you know everything, that's really scary.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_07: What does it feel like, Dave?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_08: How far in on it?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: How did you promise and you can let me tell you he doesn't know everything?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't know everything.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think you have to make it safe to fail, don't you?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Because actually what you need to stay on top of the business is for the team underneath you to escalate and share.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: If something goes wrong, I need to be the first person that you tell.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's only gonna happen if you can feel safe to fail.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: So we talk a lot about learning, not blaming.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like if we don't make 10 mistakes in a week, what have we learned?
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like it means you're not trying.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um but let's not make the same mistakes over and over, and every mistake is worthwhile as long as we learn, as long as there is something that comes in terms of improvement or understanding that makes it better and safer.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then I I love a bit of random.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: So the thing with processes, they're amazing for scale, they're required, they're all of these things, but they do ultimately restrict that bespoke one-to-one individual experience.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: So at a client level, you can't put everyone into a channel if what you're promising on your kind of brand is unique advice.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: You've just got to be able to kind of flex and balance that kind of the extra cost time, whatever it is, to make it personal with the structured process.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: But we and we actually we still have a lot of challenges with identifying what are the right KPIs and what am I, is it that we need to know the business is safe and moving forward.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's a constant is that are we measuring the right thing?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_04: What I have found is that being random, checking weird things that are nothing to do with the current topics of conversation, and just sitting down on a Thursday and going, I wonder what's happening over there, is almost unanimous in finding interesting stuff that needs attention.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so the the lack of structure and expectation, everyone in a business is ultimately there with good intention, hopefully to do great things, but to get paid to make sure that they're okay.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_04: So you give them a job, they're gonna try and just get that job done.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: And if there's stuff over there which they kind of think if they're conscientious, they'll try, but it so I I think going outside the box and not letting anyone feel comfortable that they know what question I'm gonna ask someone any given day is my superpower.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_03: I feel carry up for not knowing yourself what question you're gonna ask on any given day.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's that would be my team going.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_07: So within both of those like type of answers, what how do you both personally get reassurance that you think everything's actually going okay and things are working well?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_07: Is there you just mentioned an MI and struggling with what that looks like and how is it MI packs?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_07: Is it a weekly meeting with the team?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_07: Is it it's something else?
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_07: How how do you give yourselves that reassurance that you think things are working well?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: And how much do you trust the people in the team when they tell you it's all fine, it's fine, it's working.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I mean, I I'm gonna go back to the client, I hear it from the client directly, which is which which is great.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's multiple ways of doing it, and and I think that there's a huge amount of gut, and you talking about Sean talking about random uh things, that's almost like something in in Sean's gut is saying, I'm gonna have a look at that.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of it's kind of some of it is just getting I I don't feel so um we do have um we you know we we have a structure to to monthly meetings where I I'm in a room with um every member of the team at least one once as long as they're not on holiday, there's lots of holiday at the moment.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um apparently legally I've got to let them have holiday.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how that works.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um the uh but yeah, so as long as that I'm in a room with them, so I get the chance to I get the chance to to to to to actually see and feel and hear and hear and hear what's going on.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um the same time I'm lucky in having a founder director who's who who also is very good at the random of just dropping in and giving people a phone call and checking in on what's going on.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I get the information.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then um Dave knows I love a spreadsheet, so there's uh the and and I love the data, so I can look at the data and I and I'm blessed in the way that um my the way my brain works in so some people call it a curse.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's a blessing that I can look at some things and go, there's something not right there.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and it it it it's kind of the the the whether it be the number of tasks that we've got has suddenly spiked, the number of um completion of tasks has gone down, the number of so the the the there's metrics there that there that you can use.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um the hard part in the MI, the MI is a net is it it'll never end.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone will look at it, it will never end.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: We'll keep we'll keep looking, but it's kind of trying to turn it into things that predict what's going to happen.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: And an example of that from a few years ago was that it's kind of um telling the advisors you want them to see a certain number of meetings a week.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: If an advisor's got to see 10 meetings a week and you then start counting how many advisors, how many appointments has the advisor seen each week?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it took it, it took us far longer than it should have done to realise that actually what we should be measuring is how many appointments have we booked.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't book 10, they're not gonna see 10.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of it's kind of so I would know that if they have if 10 haven't, yeah, if they if 10 haven't been if we've got five advisors and they're supposed to see ten away, if we've not booked 50 meetings this week and actually schedule 50 in, they're not gonna see their 10.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of so those kind of those those kind of things can give me, can get give me a steer, and it's about that's where you have the battle of the back office systems, if it is if you like, if you like.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um I love Salesforce, I've used Salesforce, I know Salesforce very well, and and and and there's lots of real advantages to it.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um we use um IntelliFo.io now, which I think is probably the market leader in in the IFA world, and there are strengths and weaknesses to to both of them, but there's a there's there's some things where I would go, could it just not tell me this?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then I feel like I'd my MI pack would be complete.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: It never will be complete.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_07: Um it's kind of because you'll get all of that, and then there'll be something else you think, oh, if I could just just see that.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's always that and a bit but it is sometimes it is just looking, looking, looking for patterns, looking for things that don't that that don't look quite right, looking for why has that task been outstanding for so long?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it's good and you will spot things, and that's where I get my random from is looking at okay, why is there so many of this type of task outstanding?
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Is that because no one knows how to do it, or is it because it's the last thing they think about because they've got so many other things to do?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: Is it what and what what is it?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's a mixture of things for me.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um you I you you get so much from the the no agenda calls.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think that's for me, like we do a lot of structures.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: So we're remote as well.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: We do weekly Zoom team meetings, we do monthly advisor meetings, we do day-to-day meeting that's face-to-face every month.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_04: There's kind of you try and keep that cadence.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um but the the kind of that temperature check, how do I know that everything is okay?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_04: Client care calls number one.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then just the I'm just checking in, and then you let them talk.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_04: And if there is something going on, something will come out.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_04: You just hear it and then you ask a question, and then the thread starts to unravel.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think the the challenge that I have or have had with MI um and KPIs in particular is this the problem with learned behaviour.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: So we did the you should see 10 clients a week.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then funny enough, after a while, everyone had 10 meetings in their diary, but also making them more productive because Yeah, you didn't see an increase in thumb necessarily on because they've they've learned that we are going to clap them if there's 10 there and tell them off if there's eight.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_04: So they'll just book stuff that wastes their time.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's not smart.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so there's this, you know, the the trust of the individuals.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_04: Our advisors are all self-employed, so that engenders a certain level of trust to begin with, anyway, because if you don't do your job well, you're not going to earn any money.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I don't have to pay you any holiday.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think trust is really important and culture is really important um in terms of people knowing what you want to achieve and why is this stuff important?
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because if they get that, if they understand why that data matters, what the impact to a client is at the end of the day, I think the people start to care more.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_04: And then you have this space where you can trust because if anything's not working, someone's going, oh, we should fix that, rather than oh, I should put that there under a folder and leave it.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_07: Um brilliant that thank you both.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_07: We always like to wrap up with a few more quick fire questions.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_08: So yeah, it should be a Thomas's challenge for Thomas.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_07: Um see, we didn't say we'd make a joke over you, we said Dave in two years ago.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's fine.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a big I'm a I'm a big boy.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_03: I said it before you say that.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: My mum might watch this and she talks just as much as me.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: She knows she knows where I get it from.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_07: Um so yeah, just doesn't have to be one word, but uh more succinct answer than we've uh had.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_07: Um so first one what has been your worst operational catastrophe?
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say recruitment because there are many times I've got recruitment wrong.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: I probably shouldn't name names, but yes, I've made some big mistakes in recruiting people.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_07: Sean's still thinking.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_04: Trying to do things far too fast.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, do you have a specific example?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um introduction of workflows, so changing the way that handovers worked and going at a pace that I thought would be acceptable, but advisors didn't get it.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_04: So you end up wasting a lot of time.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_07: Brilliant.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_07: And um if you were sat down talking with someone new into a role similar as both as yours, what advice would you give them in terms of what is an early warning sign that might show them that their operations are under strain?
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_07: Gonna give you thinking time again, Sean, and go to Thomas first.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's noise, I think for me.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think when it's a warning sign of something that's that's going wrong or going to go wrong, usually advisors will get vocal.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: Usually.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: Advisors sense what's what's going on.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um administrators are more inclined to try and just fix it.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um advisors will shout about it.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then that would be lit listen to listen to the advisors, not too much, but listen to the advisors.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_04: Similar actually, I would say emotional volatility.
• 1:07:41
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that you you can sense in a team where healthy tension has moved to friction, or uh even if individuals haven't yet figured out that it's not making them happy or that something's going wrong, they're just their emotional health is different.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's messy.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_07: Um what one thing would you like your advisors to do better to help the wider operational team?
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: Just one.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, quick answer.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've probably answered it already, actually, because I think it's just that understanding that I'll phrase it as everything doesn't only take five minutes.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the the the essence that they think, well, that won't that'll only take five minutes, so you can just drop everything and do that immediately without thinking the impact.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that that's probably and a little bit of helping manage the client expectations because it it isn't a five-minute job to crystallise somebody's pension and and and and and and get the get them their tax-free cash.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: It just isn't.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh slow down to go fast.
• 1:08:56
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_07: And flipping it.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_07: What what one thing would you ask your operation team to do to help your advisors more?
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: Listen.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_07: Very quick there with that one, Sean.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've said already about the walking of mile in their shoes, understand that it's not, it's not an easy job to do.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it was, more people would be doing it.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have a shortage of advice in the country.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_04: Assume positive intent, isn't it?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_07: And in your operations, uh, which is more important?
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_07: People, process, or technology?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_07: People.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh different swimming coming in.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: People.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to expand?
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_04: It has to be people, but um do like technology.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: We haven't had a panel debate on our podcast before for the future.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_07: And uh finally, what one thing would you like to change within your operations this year?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I'd like to change.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um we were speaking before before we sat down and pressed record about the thing.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably not a thing a change, but I would I I there's a specific integration of um piece of work that I that that needs to happen within within the business at the moment that that that's the one thing I would I I would not necessarily change, but I would want that to happen.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I want to see clarity on the delivery of our client segmentation aligned to the fees and value piece.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I think we're we're sort of halfway there, but I can't confidently articulate right now what that experience looks like for various segments of clients.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I want that done and in progress.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_07: Amazing.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_07: Well, hopefully, if you're out there and you're an operational leader in an advice firm, Sean and Thomas have been able to give you some insight and some helpful tips to what uh what they've learned over their impressive careers.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_07: Um that's it from us for today.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_07: Um, thank you all for listening, and we will see you again soon.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_08: Thank you.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_07: Thank you.