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The Clean Air Act was dirty business: Repeal of EPA policy is cause for celebration · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:07
  Mainstream media has betrayed our trust.
• 0:10
  Rather than tell us the whole story about the important issues of the day, they tell us only what they want us to hear.
• 0:16
  Your hosts, Tom Harris and Todd Royal will bring you the other side of the story.
• 0:27
  It's been 54 years since we last set foot on the moon.
• 0:31
  And at last, we're finally going back.
• 0:34
  NASA's Artemis missions are returning humans to our natural satellite and paving the way for further exploration to Mars.
• 0:41
  Due to launch next month, Artemis II will be the first manned mission to further exploration and scientific discovery of the moon since the last Apollo, Apollo 17 in 1972.
• 0:53
  NASA's website states that the purpose of the Artemis project is quote, exploring the moon for scientific discovery, technological advancement, and to learn how to live and work on another world as we prepare for human missions to Mars.
• 1:07
  There are four Artemis missions completed or planned.
• 1:10
  And my co-host Todd Royal and I are going to talk about each one of them today.
• 1:14
  We will also talk about the crucial role that nuclear power will play as we move back to the moon and someday go on to Mars.
• 1:22
  Finally, Todd and I will attempt to answer the question is it worth spending billions on space exploration when we have so many pressing issues to solve right here on Earth.
• 1:32
  But first, Todd has some news concerning what's called the endangerment finding.
• 1:37
  The finding by the EPA quite a few years ago that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant, which must be controlled.
• 1:45
  Well, of course it isn't.
• 1:46
  But Todd, can you give us an update on that?
• 1:49
  That is right.
• 1:50
  It's time to break out the champagne.
• 1:52
  It's time for some climate realism.
• 1:54
  Now, of course, all the usual suspects, the environmental organizations, even the Wall Street Journal and others, they're very sad about this, Tom, because the long-awaited repeal of what many have called the illegitimate 2009 endangerment finding by the Obama era EPA, it's coming to an end.
• 2:14
  The Trump administration is going to repeal the quote unquote landmark climate finding in a huge regulatory uh rollback.
• 2:22
  The finding, Tom, is that CO2, or as you and I like to call it plant food, uh the fundamental foundation for life on planet Earth, which was obviously it was never about science.
• 2:33
  This was a political agenda wrapped in your usual green, green nonsense and green rhetoric, it was empowered by the 2007 uh Supreme Court misstep and the now defunct Chevron deference, and even the clean air, even the clean air's own co-author, former representative John Dingle confirmed in 2010 that CO2 was never meant to be regulated under it.
• 2:58
  But he was the originator or one of the originators of the nope, said it was never meant to be, but it was the old Chevron deference, which the Supreme Court finally got rid of.
• 3:08
  And yeah, so everything now that it CO2 now has to be regulated in vehicles, power plants, industries.
• 3:16
  Um, you really can say it is the most overarching, overused, abused regulation in the United States outside of the NEPA, the National Environmental Policy Act, which is the next thing that needs to be fully repealed.
• 3:30
  It's getting it's getting repealed uh through the Trump uh U.S.
• 3:34
  Environmental Protection Agency.
• 3:36
  And so all ridiculous regulations of greenhouse gases, meaning CO2, we're getting rid of all that, which again, before people think you and me are horrible people and we hate the climate and we hate baby seals.
• 3:51
  The original co-author of it said in 2010 that CO2 was never meant to be regulated under the Clean Air Act.
• 4:00
  Wow.
• 4:00
  And I understand that before it becomes official that CO2 is no longer regulated under the Clean Air Act, that there'll probably be a lot of lawsuits from the environmental group.
• 4:10
  So this is the beginning of a long fight, I bet.
• 4:13
  Beginning of a long fight.
• 4:14
  Um, of course, the people are going to say this is a major victory for the fossil fuel industry and that climate policy is being reversed.
• 4:22
  People are going to say, oh, the practical impact of this will be limited due to legal hurdles, which is true.
• 4:27
  Um, I think eventually this goes all the way back up to the Supreme Court.
• 4:31
  And we'll also see, you know, the people came in and sued the Department of Energy's recent uh the Department of Energy Advisory Group, which talked about this.
• 4:41
  You know, that faced immense legal challenges and still does.
• 4:45
  And I guess there have been court rulings against the advisory group, which is always interesting.
• 4:49
  How can you make a court ruling against an advisory group when they have First Amendment rights?
• 4:54
  Which again, what it always shows you is that all of this has nothing to do with the climate.
• 5:01
  It doesn't.
• 5:02
  It has to do with control.
• 5:04
  It has to do with these people want chaos because they ultimately want control.
• 5:08
  I've come to the point now, Tom, I'll know about you, but I don't I don't agree with one thing that comes out of any environmental organization or environmentalists' mouth anymore because of things like this.
• 5:19
  Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 5:21
  And you know, it's sad because the environmental movement when it started had a focus on clean air and clean water and species at risk.
• 5:28
  And it's like the climate change movement has totally hijacked the movement, hasn't it well?
• 5:34
  It has, and that what you see now, so okay.
• 5:37
  There was a group that was led by uh Judith Curry, Ross McKittricks, Steven uh uh Steve Coonin, and uh a few others.
• 5:46
  Uh gentleman named uh Travis Fisher out of the Cato Institute was kind of the I guess he was almost the chair, helped organize it, helped disseminate the information, put it together.
• 5:56
  And so they have been sued, which makes you again go, why are you being sued?
• 6:02
  Why can't you just take science and debate it?
• 6:06
  Because that's the problem.
• 6:08
  They don't want to debate it.
• 6:09
  They don't want to do it.
• 6:10
  Aren't they trying to cancel them on a technicality?
• 6:13
  Oh, they're trying to cancel the whole thing, which makes you go, no, you're trying, you're trying to cancel speech.
• 6:18
  You're trying to cancel freedom.
• 6:20
  And what it shows is you you guys all know this, you have no leg to stand on.
• 6:25
  You your models don't stand up, your how hot you're saying it doesn't stand up, and you've and you're never willing to look at water vapor, sun, clouds.
• 6:35
  You're not willing to look at uh a man like Dr.
• 6:38
  Lee Soon who says there's tens of thousands of variables that go into climate that we don't even know.
• 6:46
  Um none of your predictions have ever been correct from your leaders.
• 6:50
  And you know, at first was global cooling 50 years ago, now it's global warming.
• 6:55
  So what it really shows, Tom, is that these people are authoritarians.
• 7:00
  They want you to think how they think that they're very similar.
• 7:04
  They almost have a North Korean kind, North Korean uh fervency to their ideology.
• 7:09
  You either think our way or you know, we try to cancel you, crush you, ruin you, dox you, and increasingly physically threaten you if not try to kill you.
• 7:20
  Yeah.
• 7:20
  Well, we see that in China with them now getting rid of some of their top generals, and they've been placed under investigation, you know, because oh, what was their crime?
• 7:29
  They disagreed with Z.
• 7:31
  Yeah.
• 7:32
  So I mean, that's the kind of thing that, you know, it's funny because when I was growing up, I was always told that the left were more open to alternative points of view and alternative ideas and all that sort of thing.
• 7:43
  But now they're the exact opposite.
• 7:45
  And I don't think they ever really were open to alternative ideas.
• 7:48
  It's just that the conservatives control society in the 1960s and 70s.
• 7:54
  And so, of course, the left wanted to be open to alternative ideas because that was them.
• 8:00
  And now that they're in charge, they're not open at all.
• 8:04
  No, they're not.
• 8:05
  And what you really are finding, uh, I mean, go look at what uh the new mayor of New York is doing, look at what the new mayor of Seattle is doing, look at some of the new the recent candidates from the Democrat Democratic Socialists of America are wanting to do in Los Angeles.
• 8:20
  What really what you're gonna see, Tom, is conservatives, good people, freedom-loving people, are going to have to stand up to this like you've been doing for years.
• 8:31
  They're gonna have to do things they don't want to do.
• 8:34
  Yeah.
• 8:34
  Um, most people, they have a job, they wife, husband, partner, uh, boyfriends, girlfriends, they have children, they have hobbies.
• 8:44
  They don't want to sit around and squash somebody's paper out of the Department of Energy.
• 8:50
  They could even they could frankly care less.
• 8:52
  Yeah.
• 8:52
  And you know, the fascinating part about this, at least in the United States, I don't know if it is this way in Canada.
• 8:58
  When it comes to issues like this, climate or even the environment, they generally never make the top 10 when it comes to things that people are most concerned about that their elected leaders take care of.
• 9:12
  Yeah, yeah.
• 9:13
  It's interesting.
• 9:13
  A few years ago, the UN had a poll, a global poll on what were the top issues that the public across the world wanted the UN to focus on.
• 9:23
  And they had a choice of 17 issues.
• 9:26
  And it was a very biased poll because you know you're supposed to rotate the answers so that no particular issue gets top priority.
• 9:33
  Yeah.
• 9:36
  Of the 17 issues, climate change was listed very first.
• 9:39
  And yet, when the poll results came in, climate change was virtually the very bottom.
• 9:45
  Okay.
• 9:45
  And it was interesting because strangely enough, the number of people voting from Nigeria was very high, much higher than you'd expect based on you know the relative populations.
• 9:56
  And these people who, of course, were not wealthy people.
• 10:00
  They put climate at the very end.
• 10:02
  I mean, things like fresh water, you know, freedom from fear from from conflict and that sort of thing, and good food, strong electricity, those came first.
• 10:11
  And I guess that's the bottom line.
• 10:12
  If you don't have those things, then yeah, you're not too concerned about the environment.
• 10:17
  And you know, I always point to Somalia, and I say, Well, how much do you think the environment matters in Somalia when they're struggling for survival?
• 10:25
  You know, they have warlords controlling the country.
• 10:28
  Well, no, they don't even think about the damn environment.
• 10:31
  So I mean, you have to be wealthy and have your other issues solved before you start thinking about the environment.
• 10:37
  Uh, you know, you've heard me so often talk about you know, Christian, my Christianity or my faith and Jesus and all that.
• 10:44
  There was a gentleman who was in charge of the salvation army.
• 10:47
  I think it was a general booth, and he very much focused on, he would always say, you're never going to introduce Jesus or God, you know, let's take it the Judeo-Christian um values or people call it the God of the Jewish Bible.
• 11:03
  Let's call it the Christian Bible.
• 11:05
  Well, he would always say, you're never going to get people to believe in Jesus or God or have faith or church service until you take care of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
• 11:16
  He said it's very hard for someone to, you know, the terminology that you'd be saved, you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
• 11:23
  And that always resonated with me, and it's resonated with me with my in my energy work.
• 11:28
  And it's why I've always been pro-human and anti-abortion and uh pro-energy, is that you're right.
• 11:34
  Nobody gives a damn of the only people that give a damn about the environment is the wealthy West of about a billion people, which typically is United States, Canada, let's call it the 27 members of the EU.
• 11:48
  Uh, then you'd go like New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, maybe the Philippines.
• 11:54
  That's generally what's considered the West.
• 11:56
  That's about a billion people.
• 11:58
  And the other 7 billion people on the planet could, like you just said, they could give a damn.
• 12:03
  It's it's the luxury of the West to be, and you've done a you've done a lot of traveling before too.
• 12:11
  Um, go to I've gone to third world countries before.
• 12:14
  The the level of poverty, the level of people in squalor.
• 12:19
  I mean, I went to India.
• 12:20
  I've I've shared that with you.
• 12:22
  It was it was almost shocking after a while.
• 12:25
  It there was so much pollution and garbage and trash and homelessness and wild animals.
• 12:31
  Do you think the Indians give two dams where they're getting their barrel of oil, whether from the Russians, the Chinese, great, get it from the Americans, Somalis want to give it to us.
• 12:43
  We have a over a billion people, over a billion and a half people in one country.
• 12:49
  Yeah.
• 12:50
  Hey, United States and Mark Carney candidates, blank you for your environmental nonsense.
• 12:58
  Yeah.
• 12:58
  Well, even within the developed world, we're we're seeing a replacement of real environmental concerns with the climate issue.
• 13:06
  And so, as a consequence, you have places like Rome.
• 13:08
  Have you been in Rome in the last 10 years?
• 13:11
  I have not.
• 13:12
  Please tell me.
• 13:13
  Well, it's surprising.
• 13:14
  There's garbage everywhere.
• 13:16
  And yet you got Italy and the European Union are going gung-ho on climate change.
• 13:21
  Well, if they spend a little bit more money cleaning up their major city, I mean it would be a lot better.
• 13:27
  And I think environmentalists have got to kick the climate change people off the stage.
• 13:32
  Because when you have things like Earth Day or Earth Hour, you know, or all these different things, what you find is they're really climate day and climate hour, you know, and and so you got real environmental concerns, like something as simple as picking up the garbage around Rome that are just pushed off to the side.
• 13:51
  Well, I I you know, I love Michael Schellenberger.
• 13:54
  I think Michael Schellenberger does such great work because he's so open to looking at everything.
• 13:59
  And he really changed my mind on this.
• 14:02
  He talked before about, and he, you know, he was the Time magazine environmentalist of the year.
• 14:07
  I want to say 20 years ago.
• 14:09
  And he would tell you hardcore environmental leftists.
• 14:11
  Truly, he's one of the people that that's put his money where his mouth is, has traveled the world, worked on these issues.
• 14:18
  And he, and I heard him say once, he goes, if you really want to do something, not and I'm I'm not directly quoting him.
• 14:25
  And and I'm let's have a little context of Mr.
• 14:28
  Shellenberger here's this, or someone goes, You're not quoting him correctly.
• 14:31
  I understand everyone.
• 14:33
  You're paraphrasing.
• 14:34
  Yes, I received quite the nasty thing not too long ago recently about this.
• 14:38
  He said, worry about pollution.
• 14:40
  He said, You're yes, we have to have clean air, we have to have clean water, but there's a difference in India and Japan.
• 14:48
  And he would go, look at the how look at the Japanese, they are spotless people.
• 14:53
  Go to India.
• 14:54
  He goes, You're telling me that we're trying to get Indian engineers in the United States and Canada as fast as we can get them over here.
• 15:03
  It's, I think in so many ways it has to do with like a pollution issue.
• 15:06
  If you looked up and you went, if we cleaned up our country, I have a feeling that India would probably overtake the United States and China for the number one economy in the world.
• 15:15
  Yeah.
• 15:16
  And you know, sadly, a lot of the new Indian immigrants, and I have, you know, friends over the years that have been immigrants, but some of the new immigrants are bringing these standards to Canada, you know, and you're seeing the same in the United States.
• 15:29
  You know, we had some Indians across the road from us who had just got off the boat.
• 15:33
  And it was hilarious because they would be out polishing their car, making their their, you know, their Ford Mustang or whatever look fantastic, standing amongst all their garbage that they had thrown all over the road and all over the you know their property.
• 15:47
  And you think, holy smokes, like don't these, but I guess that's what they were living in in India.
• 15:52
  That's what again, that and that's what they live in.
• 15:54
  Um, I could go on with this all day long, but I do want to get back to the nuclear in the space and and look at the let me kick this back.
• 16:01
  Big issue.
• 16:01
  It's a big issue.
• 16:02
  Yeah, nuclear power, I guess that's the key in many ways to really exploring the solar system.
• 16:08
  It is, and so here's let me kick this off.
• 16:10
  Here's what it is.
• 16:11
  There's there's programs that are going on within NASA, the Department of Energy, there is some of the Department of Defense, but it's really NASA and the Department of Energy, and what they're doing is there's companies that are working on it.
• 16:23
  The theory goes is let's just take you and me.
• 16:26
  We're both astronauts.
• 16:28
  We are going to have a small transportable nuclear reactor.
• 16:32
  Some people will tell you they want nuclear propulsion to be able to do more deep space.
• 16:37
  But let's just say that what the theory is to get to Mars is I will take a nuclear reactor, and I will, you and I will be in our our rocket ship.
• 16:47
  We blast off from Earth, we go to the moon, and we will set up a nuclear reactor on the moon.
• 16:55
  Right.
• 16:55
  Then we will then work to refuel, restock, get power for you and I then to be able to fly to Mars.
• 17:04
  They don't say if you're going to ever land on Mars, orbit ours, just get to Mars, and then we would come back to the moon, and then from the moon back to Earth.
• 17:14
  But the but the the goal is that that reactor is something that that essentially obviously can be taken apart.
• 17:21
  Let's just call it a small module reactor, frankly, that's gonna be a micro reactor, and that that micro reactor can fit in a rocket ship, and that you and I can put it together on the moon, use the power, go fly to Mars, come back.
• 17:38
  The other thing what it really does is you're really looking at the the apex of human technology.
• 17:46
  You're looking at the who knows how many thousands upon thousands of new technologies, new jobs, new companies will be created.
• 17:56
  You'll need to have advanced machinery, you'll have to have advanced metals and alloys, you'll have to have a system that can be put in place that's never been done before.
• 18:07
  Um, you'll need new types of rocket ships.
• 18:10
  So you're you're really looking at um, gosh, you're probably gonna need to train.
• 18:16
  Not only will I need to know how to fly or a rocket ship to and from places, now you and I will need to become uh nuclear and mechanical engineers.
• 18:25
  Oh, yeah.
• 18:25
  There's a it's it's just it's fascinating.
• 18:28
  And it really kind of builds on that Elon Musk ethos of wanting to go to Mars, wanting to colonize Mars.
• 18:36
  Um, I think you'll need to look up to and go, okay, current rocket ships and please anyone listening to this who knows this.
• 18:43
  I'm being very simplistic.
• 18:45
  Uh give me some context here, everyone, is that many times these ships are powered by solar power.
• 18:51
  But well, obviously, the farther away you get from the sun, meaning we've never really gone past the moon with manned missions, obviously, the less power it has versus the smaller missions that have been done, not just countries outside of, you know, not just the US, where you're sending in um, you know, I can't think of some of the NASA things that have gone to Mars or gone to the outer parts of the um of this solar system that we know of um and are sending back photos that we can't believe.
• 19:22
  Well, they can't sustain, they couldn't sustain you and me.
• 19:25
  They can't sustain human beings because the farther we get away, we have no energy.
• 19:29
  You and I both know that those panels don't uh they can't produce the energy density that would be needed.
• 19:34
  And so that's the whole big uh that's being worked on as we speak by the United States government.
• 19:41
  Yeah, it's interesting.
• 19:42
  The Voyager spacecraft, which you know, one of them's still working to some extent.
• 19:47
  They're way out beyond Pluto, and of course, the sun is extremely dim there.
• 19:51
  Yeah, but they're powered by radioisotope thermoelectric generators.
• 19:55
  And tell me if I've got this right.
• 19:57
  I understand that they work by the decay of.
• 20:00
  Uh uranium, they're operating by the decay of radioactive material, which then heats a thermocouple, which then produces electricity.
• 20:09
  And as a consequence, since they're way outside the solar energy range, they can operate essentially forever, right?
• 20:17
  By human standards.
• 20:18
  Um, you know, Tom, I'm you're you're about to get out of my uh my my bailiwick.
• 20:25
  I do know that part of the issue is when you're trying to go to Mars.
• 20:29
  I'll keep it with you know, right now it's it's Mars.
• 20:32
  There's thoughts of trying to use liquid uranium.
• 20:35
  Oh, wow.
• 20:37
  Because obviously I guess the theory goes more power, the rocket can go faster.
• 20:44
  Um, maybe you continue to use some of the some of the solar panels as well.
• 20:49
  But I just know the it's also not been clear.
• 20:54
  Okay, and again, I go to you and me.
• 20:56
  So you and I land on the moon, we we have our we have our nuclear reactor, we put the nuclear reactor there.
• 21:04
  Well, then what exactly are we doing?
• 21:06
  You know, what is it?
• 21:08
  Are we trying to prepare our bodies for the journey because we know that you and I will lose bone density when we're in space that long?
• 21:16
  Do we need to, you know, do you and I need to then set up some sort of housing so then you and I can exercise and get used to it?
• 21:25
  Because you know, that's always the big problem on the space station.
• 21:29
  Yeah, yeah.
• 21:30
  Well just before you go on, I just wanted to point out one thing.
• 21:34
  People think, okay, we're on the moon, we can use solar power.
• 21:37
  But the truth is with Artemis 4, okay, the fourth mission, they're actually going to be setting up a base at the south pole of the moon.
• 21:46
  And a lot of that is has been in shadows for billions of years.
• 21:50
  So they will definitely need a nuclear reactor.
• 21:53
  The the other point I wanted to make, Todd, is that even on Mars, these solar panels get covered with Martian dust during the storms.
• 22:01
  And in fact, if you compare the rovers, the first rovers powered by solar power, they had a lot of trouble actually functioning because there is nobody there to clean off the solar panels.
• 22:10
  So now the later rovers, which are quite big, they're as big as a car.
• 22:15
  They were run with you know these radioisotope type generators, the actual nuclear power, and they work great, and they're still working great.
• 22:23
  So, yeah, nuclear power on Mars is you know, the sun is two and a half times weaker on uh Mars than it is on Earth.
• 22:30
  So we want to use nuclear power.
• 22:33
  Can you okay?
• 22:34
  I'm gonna diverge us there a little bit.
• 22:36
  Let's have a little fun.
• 22:37
  So you so you just said, okay, the the Voyager.
• 22:42
  Is that your thing?
• 22:43
  The Voyager, the one that went to the went to Mars.
• 22:45
  What's that called again?
• 22:46
  Oh, well, these are Pathfinder and Spirit and Opportunity.
• 22:50
  These are all little rovers.
• 22:52
  And they use solar panels, correct?
• 22:54
  Well, the first ones did.
• 22:56
  The later ones were RTGs.
• 22:58
  And the solar panels, what happened to those again, Tom?
• 23:00
  Why do you think they got covered with dust from a Martian dust storm?
• 23:05
  So let's just think about this.
• 23:07
  If if okay, probably Martian dust is a little, maybe it's denser or thicker, but dust is dust as dust.
• 23:14
  Okay.
• 23:14
  Yeah.
• 23:15
  Or in your case, where you are, uh, for the audience where where you're located, it's snowing right now.
• 23:21
  Yeah, lots and lots.
• 23:23
  So if I had a solar panel, let's just say, let's forget that it's not even sunny.
• 23:28
  What's gonna happen to that solar panel?
• 23:30
  Yeah, well, it'll be covered with a foot of snow.
• 23:33
  You know, you have to use a lot of uh diesel powered equipment to clear it off.
• 23:38
  And doesn't it make you sit here and go again?
• 23:41
  And we we've I feel like we've really drilled this down recently.
• 23:44
  Whether it's an environmentalist that wants to do, you know, not allow an advisory group, part of the department of energy, have it say, or this this mad rush into solar.
• 23:56
  What I've always said is that it's not technologically ready to be deployed full time.
• 24:02
  Hey, if you want to deploy it on an off-grid farm, or um your local grid can handle you bombarding it, you know, with the solar on your house, or uh you're gonna put it in uh a bunch of Tesla batteries in your house that whether you use it or not, okay.
• 24:19
  But isn't it fascinating that the brightest people in the world who have made missions that have flown all the way to Mars and taken beautiful photos, which you can find on the internet, did not it's it stopped working whenever the dust came over it.
• 24:34
  Yeah, exactly.
• 24:36
  But yeah, we supposedly want to deploy it in the West at these massive industrial scales for to give us all of our electricity.
• 24:44
  I know it's totally crazy.
• 24:46
  You know, one thing I wanted to go back to was the nuclear power in space.
• 24:49
  You know, a lot of people don't realize that when John Kennedy gave his John F.
• 24:54
  Kennedy gave his speech at Rice University, you know, we're going to land a man on Mars in this decade and bring him safely back to the earth.
• 25:02
  Another thing that he talked about was nuclear power.
• 25:05
  He said that to really explore the solar system, we're going to need nuclear propulsion.
• 25:10
  Because if you think about it, right now we have chemical rockets, okay, and they burn like crazy for a few minutes.
• 25:16
  Yep.
• 25:17
  And then they used up their fuel, and they have to coast the rest of the way to Mars.
• 25:21
  And so it's a seven-month journey to get to Mars.
• 25:24
  Seven months, almost all of it just coasting.
• 25:27
  So he was saying we need to develop more nuclear propulsion.
• 25:31
  So I mean, there's a role for nuclear there too, if we want to really explore the solar system.
• 25:36
  Well, of course.
• 25:37
  I mean, I it's always goes back, you know, we've talked about nuclear so much, and you know, I if aliens came down right now, I think they would look at us and shake their heads in bewilderment and go, why are why isn't everything done by nuclear power?
• 25:54
  You know, like wait a minute.
• 25:56
  Wait a minute.
• 25:57
  So you guys in the Northeast United States, it gets really cold and you burn oil, or they go to Saudi Arabia and they go, You burn oil for electricity?
• 26:07
  Wait a minute.
• 26:08
  You have uranium that we aliens know is 1600 times more powerful, or the fancy term energy density than natural gas or oil.
• 26:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 26:20
  And I think it's even more powerful than coal.
• 26:23
  But you guys want to use a solar panel?
• 26:27
  Right.
• 26:28
  It's interesting when you compare the amount of energy you get from a certain weight of uranium versus oil.
• 26:34
  I mean, apparently, you know, I could power my life with just what just a few pounds of uranium for my entire life.
• 26:41
  It basically is.
• 26:42
  I mean, there's there's some great, you know, infographics on like the U.S.
• 26:46
  Department of of Energy's website, nuclear energy a nuclear uh energy institute does good stuff.
• 26:54
  Uh you know, International Atomic Energy Agency, but they'll basically show these graphics that say if you take a swimming pool of natural gas, like an Olympic-sized swimming pool, gas that's been liquefied, it literally equals about maybe a handful of uranium.
• 27:12
  Yeah.
• 27:12
  And the waste issues.
• 27:14
  I mean, you know, apparently also, according to one of my professors when I was at Carlton doing engineering, you could have your entire life provided by nuclear power, and the amount of high-level waste would be about the size of a golf ball.
• 27:27
  And you contrast that with the enormous pollution produced with virtually every other energy source.
• 27:33
  It it and you know, I mean, I think you and I've talked about like Alex Epstein, you know, who's really the you know, the you know, fossil futures, the moral case for fossil fuels.
• 27:42
  I mean, Alex really does the best work on talking about the morality of fossil fuels and his pro-human agenda.
• 27:49
  And I'm I'm all for everything Alex says, but when we think about nuclear power, there's there's no comparison between nuclear power and fossil fuels.
• 27:58
  Like, like we know that fossil fuels uh are killing hundreds of thousands of people a year.
• 28:05
  Some will tell you it's in the millions per year.
• 28:08
  What from pollution?
• 28:09
  Oh, sure, from pollution, you know, from respiratory issues.
• 28:13
  It it just it so doesn't make it just doesn't make sense at all.
• 28:17
  Um, I think it's that they're trying to tie the hands of the West.
• 28:22
  So we simply have to reduce our development.
• 28:24
  We because you know, if they were serious about reducing carbon dioxide emissions, and I don't think that's necessary, then they would obviously strongly support nuclear, but they're against that too.
• 28:34
  So they're saying, well, you can't have all these other sources because of CO2.
• 28:38
  But the one energy source that produces virtually no CO2 except its manufacturer is nuclear, and they're against that too.
• 28:46
  We gotta go for a break, Todd.
• 28:48
  In the second half, let's get back to space.
• 28:50
  Is that okay with you?
• 28:51
  Oh, I would love to.
• 28:52
  Let's do it, Tom.
• 28:52
  Yeah, okay.
• 28:53
  So stay tuned, Todd and I will be right back.
• 28:57
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• 28:58
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• 33:18
  Now it's interesting.
• 33:19
  There's Artemis One, Two, Three, and Four.
• 33:22
  Artemis One, it launched back in 2022, Todd.
• 33:25
  It was an unmanned mission that lasted for 25 days.
• 33:28
  And it was the first test for NASA's deep space exploration system.
• 33:32
  And I think it's important to explain what that is.
• 33:35
  Anyone who's been to the Kennedy Space Center in recent years saw the Orion spacecraft because they had a full-size model of it.
• 33:43
  And it's like a big Apollo command module.
• 33:45
  You remember the command module was this sort of traditional shape that goes to the top of a rocket?
• 33:50
  Well, that's exactly what the Orion spacecraft is, except that it's bigger inside.
• 33:55
  It supports four people instead of just three.
• 33:58
  And then you have the space launch system, SLS.
• 34:01
  Now the SLS is a heavy lift rocket.
• 34:04
  And I mean really heavy lift because you remember the Saturn V was roughly seven and a half million pounds of thrust.
• 34:10
  Well, this rocket is 8.8 million pounds of thrust.
• 34:14
  Okay, it's bigger.
• 34:15
  It's interesting, it's not as tall, but it has these solid boosters on the side.
• 34:20
  I'm a little leery, Todd.
• 34:22
  Tell me what you think.
• 34:23
  At the beginning of the space program, it was always stated that we would never use solid boosters to launch humans into space because they're like a Roman candle.
• 34:32
  When you light it off, you can't turn it off.
• 34:35
  I mean, it's on.
• 34:36
  You're going, whether you like it or not.
• 34:38
  And yet with the space shuttle, we had, for example, the challenger disaster was caused by the solid boosters.
• 34:46
  So Todd, how comfortable are you with using solid boosters to launch humans into space?
• 34:52
  I think the better question is, Tom, why if we know we've got issues with this, why are we doing it?
• 34:57
  Why are we continuing to do it?
• 34:58
  Is it a budgetary?
• 35:00
  Okay, so this is a budgetary issue.
• 35:02
  Yeah.
• 35:03
  Um the hard part about that, and and is that when you really think about why do you want to go to space?
• 35:09
  You want to go to space because we want to explore.
• 35:13
  Yeah.
• 35:13
  Whether it's climbing Mount Everest, climbing a tree, uh building a building.
• 35:19
  We as human beings have this urge to explore.
• 35:22
  You know, can we figure out a way to go to the deepest parts of the ocean?
• 35:26
  We we we want to explore.
• 35:27
  Well, in that exploration, typically new businesses come out of it.
• 35:31
  Uh, new inventions, new exploration, new products.
• 35:36
  I I think the big concern for me would be your if there's not some big imperative like there was during the Cold War, have to defeat the Russians, we've got to get to space before the Russians.
• 35:48
  Well, what's the imperative now?
• 35:50
  And if you're using solid boosts that we know have issues, do you think though, Tom, that what we could end up is is stopping human advancement because we're just concerned about dollars.
• 36:01
  Well, right, and space exploration is dangerous.
• 36:04
  You know, it's interesting for Mars One, which was the project out of the Netherlands where they were going to send four people at a time to Mars on a one-way trip.
• 36:13
  They would send four people, and their job was to establish a colony and live there for the rest of their life.
• 36:19
  And it's interesting because when they asked, asked the candidates to do this trip, they said, Well, you know, the odds of you dying on this trip prematurely, you know, before the end of your life, normal life is about 50-50.
• 36:32
  And yet they had thousands of volunteers, you know.
• 36:35
  So I mean, space exploration is dangerous.
• 36:37
  And I guess the truth is if you're too cautious, you're not going anywhere.
• 36:42
  Yeah, and I mean, I appreciate folks saying that, but today's media.
• 36:46
  What's going to happen if another rocket blows up?
• 36:49
  In other words, I want you to use something that you know is going to work personally, uh, even for a nuclear, you know, the Artemis program.
• 36:57
  I I wish it was at SpaceX right now.
• 36:59
  Yeah.
• 37:00
  Yeah.
• 37:00
  It's a free enterprise.
• 37:02
  But let me describe a little bit more about the Artemis.
• 37:05
  So Artemis 1 was an unmanned rocket and launched lots of these small microsatellites.
• 37:10
  Okay.
• 37:11
  And um, but Artemis 2 is going to be the first human flight.
• 37:15
  Now, this is actually a big step because ordinarily you'd expect them to just send humans into orbit of the earth and actually test out to see how well the equipment works.
• 37:25
  They're actually going to go further in space than humans have ever been before.
• 37:29
  They're going to go way beyond the moon because they're they're actually doing what's called a free return trajectory.
• 37:35
  Okay.
• 37:35
  So if their rockets failed, and they couldn't fire rockets to get them out of lunar orbit the way they did with the Apollo, they would loop back to the Earth because they're whipping around the moon using the moon's gravity to just simply bring them back to Earth.
• 37:50
  So in that sense, it's safer, but it's also more dangerous because they're going to be 230,000 miles away.
• 37:57
  And so if things go wrong, yeah, we'll be holding our breath, that's for sure.
• 38:00
  And they don't have a lifeboat the way Apollo 13 did, which was the lunar module.
• 38:05
  They don't have that.
• 38:06
  So it's a big step going from just manned mission to now having.
• 38:11
  Sorry, I'll say that again.
• 38:13
  So it's a big step, just going from the unmanned mission to a manned mission around the moon.
• 38:18
  Now it's interesting.
• 38:19
  The astronauts are they're they're superhuman beings, you know.
• 38:22
  They really are.
• 38:23
  Oh, yeah.
• 38:24
  Yeah, yeah, they're amazing characters.
• 38:25
  And I don't know if I've told you before, but here's how they test them for claustrophobia.
• 38:30
  Because when they were being launched on board the Soyuz spacecraft, their knees were right at their chest.
• 38:36
  They were rammed right in, okay?
• 38:38
  It was pretty tight wearing a bulky space suit in the Soyuz spacecraft.
• 38:42
  Well, when they're testing people for claustrophobia, what they do is they have a large canvas ball that's about three feet across, which you can just barely fit into as a zipper, and you just barely can fit in in the fetal position.
• 38:55
  And they put you in there, and they don't tell you whether you're going to be there for two minutes or more 20 hours.
• 39:00
  They just put you in there and they have respirators, so you have oxygen and they're testing your heart rate and everything.
• 39:07
  And they they just leave you in there.
• 39:08
  And of course, the average person after a few minutes says, ah, let me out.
• 39:12
  Yeah, of course, of course.
• 39:13
  But you know, the astronaut from the space shuttle missions who was actually writing the book I was reading.
• 39:18
  He said that when he was put in the the ball, they he went to sleep.
• 39:24
  And uh they would kick him and they say, Wake up, this is a claustrophobia test.
• 39:28
  And you say, Oh, okay.
• 39:30
  Oh, you go back to sleep.
• 39:32
  So these are unusual people, you know.
• 39:35
  Well, did you ever see the movie The Write Stuff?
• 39:37
  Oh, yeah.
• 39:38
  Remember Dennis uh Dennis Quaid's character?
• 39:42
  They put them in, you know, that that it starts uh, you know, the noise and the sound, and the one guy like runs to the door and freaks out, and Dennis Quaid's like, oh yeah.
• 39:53
  Looks over, and the the nurse gives a big smile, and he's just soundlessly just happy as can be, just totally fine.
• 40:00
  Well, these are special people.
• 40:01
  And in fact, it's interesting that three of the astronauts, the three Americans have actually been on long duration space flights already.
• 40:08
  I read, yeah, I saw that.
• 40:09
  I read that on the space station.
• 40:11
  Yeah.
• 40:11
  But you know, here's it.
• 40:13
  How's this for a first mission?
• 40:14
  Jeremy Hanson from Canada.
• 40:16
  This is the first time he's ever flown in space, and he's going beyond the moon.
• 40:21
  Wow.
• 40:22
  How long again are they going to be up there?
• 40:25
  I think it's about 15 days.
• 40:27
  Okay.
• 40:27
  There's a four-day sort of gradual drift to the moon.
• 40:31
  And uh, because of course they just fire the rockets for translunar injection, just getting out of Earth orbit, then they will naturally loop around the moon.
• 40:40
  They don't go back close to the moon.
• 40:41
  You know, it's interesting.
• 40:42
  When they were in orbit around the moon with the Apollos, and they did fire their engines to slow down to go into lunar orbit, of course.
• 40:49
  Yeah.
• 40:50
  Um, yeah, they were only like 60, 70 miles up, but in this case, they're not going that close.
• 40:55
  They're they're going to be a 4,600 miles away.
• 40:58
  Um so, you know, it's it's a it's a large figure eight that they're flying around the earth and it'll be drawn back to the to the earth.
• 41:06
  Oh, sorry, around the earth and the moon, they'll be drawn back to the earth by gravity, which is really great.
• 41:12
  Now, once that's done, and assuming it's successful, Artemis III is a 30-day mission, 30 days.
• 41:20
  It's going to be launched next year, and it'll land astronauts near the South Pole, where they'll spend about a week conducting scientific research.
• 41:27
  Now, the South Pole, you say, well, why would we go to the South Pole?
• 41:31
  It's miserable.
• 41:32
  I mean, psychologically, it's going to be awful.
• 41:34
  The Earth will be just barely above the horizon.
• 41:36
  Yep.
• 41:37
  Yep.
• 41:37
  And you are not behind a mountain or in a crater.
• 41:40
  Well, there's some really good reasons for it.
• 41:42
  First of all, you know, it's it's fantastic experience to test our equipment in very extreme environments, which of course we'll need for Mars.
• 41:50
  But the other thing is that they believe that there's water ice deep in these craters.
• 41:55
  So they fire impactors and into these craters and they analyze the plume that comes up, and they're pretty convinced that there's water ice that have been in the shadows for hundreds of millions of years, and that that could be an actual source for water ice.
• 42:10
  Now, the the big benefit there is that not only is it a great source for for water for human consumption, but of course they can dissociate the water, H2O, and they then have rocket fuel for using the moon as a gas station on the way to really interesting.
• 42:29
  Yeah, so so this will actually be Artemis 3.
• 42:32
  So they use that would they use the hydrogen?
• 42:34
  Is that what they're gonna use for the yeah, that's right.
• 42:36
  Like, I mean, the Saturn V, it's it's uh, you know, some of its rockets were hydrogen and oxygen, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:42
  And they would combine them and get the fuel now.
• 42:44
  Artemis 4, it's gonna be like, you know, this is very quick.
• 42:47
  This year Armus 2, next year three, Artemis 4 is 2028, and it's gonna actually help build the lunar space station in orbit around the moon called Gateway.
• 42:59
  Now, Gateway is largely a Canadian project.
• 43:01
  We're designing big pieces of it, which is cool, and astronauts can spend you know, short periods like a week or so on gateway.
• 43:09
  It's going to be a small space station, uh, and it'll be great for you know, rendezvousing, bringing astronauts back up from the surface.
• 43:17
  So now it is interesting because this is not cheap.
• 43:22
  I have some price tags for you.
• 43:24
  The Artemis project started a long time ago, around 2012.
• 43:28
  Okay, and so far they've spent about 93 billion dollars on the mission, okay.
• 43:33
  And this one mission, Artemis one, which has already happened, it was just over four billion.
• 43:39
  But you know, in a nation's total economy, that's pretty small.
• 43:43
  That's nothing.
• 43:45
  So, my question to you, and it's interesting because when I was in uh aerospace engineering, which was my original field, and I'd give presentations on the space program.
• 43:53
  When it came to the question period, people didn't ask me, you know, how many watts does the RTG uh radioisotope thermoelectric generate?
• 44:02
  How many watts does it generate?
• 44:03
  They didn't ask questions like that.
• 44:05
  They said, why are we going into space when there's so many problems on Earth?
• 44:09
  So, my question for you, Todd, and maybe we can spend the rest of the program talking about this.
• 44:14
  Is it worth this kind of expenditure to send just a few special humans out into the cosmos?
• 44:22
  Ooh, man, we could spend the entire year on this one.
• 44:26
  Yeah, I'm always gonna say yes because of the human experiment, the human project, the human endeavor yearns to be free, yearns to explore, yearns to find the deep, the deepest cavern in the the ocean, climb the highest mountains on an economic side, if I recall correctly, the the Apollo space program created over 25,000 new products.
• 44:55
  Wow, they sure did.
• 44:56
  Yeah, one of them is kind of interesting, is it actually was developed for Skylab, um, and you know, which was this first American space station, it was a little centrifuge where you could analyze blood on your desktop, okay?
• 45:10
  And doctors can now analyze blood right there if they have one of these, and it came from the Skylab mission.
• 45:16
  Yeah, I mean, it's it's fascinating when you look at like all the products that came out of I want to say like one of the biggest was like you know, microwave technology.
• 45:23
  Oh, yeah.
• 45:24
  Um and microelectronics, very lightweight because you know it's interesting.
• 45:29
  The Americans were forced to really develop very lightweight electronics because their boosters were not as big as the Russians.
• 45:37
  The Russians could launch probably anything into space because they had massive boosters, but Americans didn't, and as a consequence, they had to develop microelectronics, which of course we have now in our cell phones and and everywhere.
• 45:49
  But but yeah, it's interesting.
• 45:51
  You you talk about the psychological impacts of exploring, and I think to understand why exploration, and according to Charles Lachlan, who's an anthropologist who studied this, um, you know, the drive to explore is a fundamental part of the way the human nervous system functions.
• 46:09
  And you have to say, well, why would that be?
• 46:11
  Well, we've got it kind of ingrained into our DNA because if you go back, you know, a couple of million years, we were just a few hundred thousand people, you know, in those days, uh, early hominids basically living in in Southeast Africa.
• 46:26
  And the interesting thing is that over the over the mill millennia, really, we expanded into AF, we've spent it right again.
• 46:35
  Over the millennia, we expanded beyond Africa into Europe, and then eventually to all parts of the earth.
• 46:41
  So exploration was part of our culture, and you know, it became interesting that about 500 years ago, the beginning of the first great age of discovery.
• 46:51
  Stephen Pine has written a very good book about this, talking about how exploration became a revitalizing agent, so to speak, for Western civilization.
• 47:02
  And and you know, if you actually look at what happens when you withdraw from exploration, a good example is what happened after the Ming Dynasty in China.
• 47:11
  China nearly discovered Europe.
• 47:13
  They had they had massive floating barges that would go around India and part way down the eastern coast of Africa, but unfortunately, the Ming Emperor died, and the Confucians who took over China, they were determined to end exploration because they wanted control, okay.
• 47:32
  They want control, and exploration brought in all kinds of new things.
• 47:36
  It brought in new animals, it brought in new materials and new peoples that you know, and this actually acted to sort of stimulate the Chinese before the Confucians to think about things differently.
• 47:49
  And the Confucians didn't want that, they wanted a stable controlled society.
• 47:54
  And so you will you just won't believe this, Todd.
• 47:57
  But the Confucians burned all the ships that were capable of significant sea going voyages, and they made it a capital offense if a captain tried to sail a ship with three masses, because three masts would allow them to essentially get around South of Africa and eventually to discover Europe.
• 48:15
  So China retracted and became a very kind of folk, you know, archaic society with very little advances because largely because they killed exploration, they were very advanced.
• 48:27
  And and so, of course, it was China that was discovered by Europe and not the other way around.
• 48:32
  And of course, that had terrible impact on China.
• 48:35
  So, yeah, the whole idea that we should suppress exploration, that I think that would be very bad for our society.
• 48:42
  Yeah, and people, it's just there's a yearning for freedom, and there's something about travel and exploration, and you have you have people who say, Well, I want to go on a rocket.
• 48:53
  I I want to um go to the outer limits of space.
• 48:59
  I want to push myself to the outer limits, but really from a human progress standpoint, we we know that we know how much we're inventing all the time when we do this.
• 49:08
  We know the advances that are be that are being made.
• 49:11
  But I I find it interesting with the the Confucians, or you know, what once I think that's one of the reasons China became known as the Hermit Kingdom.
• 49:19
  Yeah, is that isn't it interesting?
• 49:22
  This control issue.
• 49:25
  It it's such a human desire to be in control.
• 49:29
  We we want, you know, whether you're an authoritarian, I'm you know, the dictator of North Korea, I'm I'm Hitler, I'm Paul Pot, I'm Stalin.
• 49:41
  Um today's environmental movement.
• 49:44
  We want to be in control, we want to be in control.
• 49:47
  You know, you've talked about the extinction rebellion, you know, what do they call the extinction rebellion?
• 49:52
  Yeah, we want to kill ourselves because we'll be in control.
• 49:55
  It's just there is such a it's such a fascinating thing how the
• 50:00
  Human condition says I want to control you.
• 50:03
  Yeah.
• 50:04
  And you know, it's interesting because the drive to explore makes you humble too.
• 50:08
  If you actually does, yeah.
• 50:10
  If you do explore, you start to realize how little you really know.
• 50:14
  And I'll give you another example.
• 50:16
  Before the first great age of discovery, which was the Europeans basically exploring around the world, they had a map of the world.
• 50:24
  It was called the Great Map of Fra Maro.
• 50:26
  Okay.
• 50:27
  And on it, there was just one supercontinent.
• 50:30
  It was Europe, Africa, and Asia.
• 50:32
  Wasn't there a name?
• 50:32
  Wasn't there a name for that?
• 50:34
  Oh, I can't remember.
• 50:35
  I okay.
• 50:36
  I remember, yeah, there was a name anyway.
• 50:38
  But but the interesting thing is that there was no other continents because there's nowhere else to put them.
• 50:43
  Okay.
• 50:43
  Now they said this was the ultimate truth.
• 50:46
  This was the truth of the world, that there was no question, there was no other continents.
• 50:51
  So of course, when Columbus landed in the, you know, in the um Caribbean area, he thought he landed in India because there was no other continent.
• 51:00
  There's no other way to get there, yeah.
• 51:01
  That's right.
• 51:02
  And when they realized holy smokes, there's a whole new continent here, it actually revolutionized their view of the world.
• 51:09
  Yeah.
• 51:09
  And this actually spread out to many other fields of scientific discovery.
• 51:14
  And so it became, you know, exploration.
• 51:16
  In fact, it's interesting, Todd.
• 51:18
  If you look at the maps that started to appear in the 1500s, instead instead of Fra Maro, where they knew everything, they were confident that was just the world.
• 51:28
  They had written big areas of unknown territory, terra incognita.
• 51:33
  And and the and the legend at the bottom of the map said all of the world that is being discovered up to this time.
• 51:40
  So unlike the pre-Columbian type explorers who thought they knew what was real and nothing else could be possible, they were becoming much more humble.
• 51:49
  They were engaged in what they call negative discovery.
• 51:52
  In other words, they were finding out that they really didn't know very much at all.
• 51:56
  And I think this humility was very important for the for the actual development of humans, don't you?
• 52:02
  I do too.
• 52:03
  I mean, I think you hit it best.
• 52:04
  You it humility, even when you travel on your own, um, there's nothing like travel.
• 52:11
  There's nothing like to make you realize how small you really are.
• 52:15
  There's nothing like you know, go take an airplane trip where you you know you go up to the top of the world and you come down.
• 52:22
  Um nothing makes you feel smaller than when you when you see the crest of the earth.
• 52:28
  Oh, yeah.
• 52:29
  It's a very humbling, it's very humbling, it's very um aw inspiring, humbling.
• 52:36
  Uh well, like look at those pictures from Hubble.
• 52:38
  I mean, oh my goodness.
• 52:40
  You know, you look at a picture and you see like a thousand galaxies in one picture.
• 52:45
  Holy smokes.
• 52:46
  It's like, yeah.
• 52:47
  I it's just I I mean, I I do look at it from the human endeavor, you know, our project as human beings to discover and break our bounds and our chains and move forward.
• 53:01
  However, there's also such a uh a scientific economic component to it as well.
• 53:06
  Oh, yeah.
• 53:07
  Whenever you're going to stretch the limits of human ingenuity, we as humans we tend to grow to the right on the chart.
• 53:14
  We well, yeah, and they say that in sports, you know, you really understand how good a player is when it's like two minutes to go and they're down one point in a basketball game.
• 53:24
  You find out who is really strong and who is not.
• 53:27
  And I think I think humans have to basically test themselves.
• 53:31
  They have, you know, they say that the exploration of space in some ways is an alternative to war because young people I haven't heard that before.
• 53:39
  Okay, yeah, they say young people want to do new and exciting things, and going to war, of course, is is very exciting, very demanding, but you know, also living on Mars will be extremely demanding, you know, and so we're gonna see a new kind of human being evolving, and this is something that you know it's it's way too much to get into in the last minute of our show.
• 54:00
  But the bottom line is that if you take human beings and you put them in extremely hostile environments, they're not gonna fight each other because they're fighting the environment, they're just trying to live.
• 54:10
  The difference between a black and a white person when you're living on Mars is zilt.
• 54:15
  Is zilt nobody nobody cares.
• 54:17
  I think that's fascinating, Tom.
• 54:19
  That a younger generation will say, I don't necessarily want to fight a war, I've got a war to go fight in space.
• 54:26
  Yeah, exactly.
• 54:27
  Exactly.
• 54:27
  And you know that is fascinating, Tom.
• 54:29
  That really is.
• 54:30
  Well, it gives you this challenge that really takes you to the absolute limit to see what you can cope with.
• 54:36
  And you look at the astronauts, uh, you know, the history, you know, Neil Armstrong, a mere amazing character on a on Gemini 8, he they docked with the Agena Target vehicle.
• 54:47
  Yeah, yeah.
• 54:48
  It became unstable and they started spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning and spinning.
• 54:53
  And you know, they were right on the verge of blacking out.
• 54:56
  And Armstrong did not panic.
• 54:58
  He managed to negotiate uh, you know, some sort of a stabilization of the spacecraft.
• 55:03
  And when he landed, it was like no big deal, you know.
• 55:06
  So these are unusual people.
• 55:08
  And when they have children and they live on other planets and they are taught the basic survival skills in hostile environments, you know, they'll be the kind of people we want to stay in touch with because they will learn things that can really help teach us, you know.
• 55:22
  And so this is called what they say, the founder effect, okay.
• 55:26
  Uh Isaac Asimov and Heinlen and these different science fiction writers, they talk about humans who will evolve as we move into space and face more and more difficult challenges and overcome them.
• 55:37
  We become better people, you know, become better people.
• 55:40
  When you're just trying to survive, you don't care what race the other person is.
• 55:44
  Uh yeah, you don't care about any of that.
• 55:46
  You're just trying to survive.
• 55:47
  That's right.
• 55:47
  So I mean, if if they can, you know, keep the life support system going, wow, they're a super valuable person.
• 55:54
  You know, so I think the space exploration, it's a nice alternative to war, and it's also a great way to encourage young people to study the sciences, learn how to get along with people, learn how to be strong and confident in the individuals, but it also teaches humility.
• 56:10
  It absolutely does.
• 56:11
  Absolutely does.
• 56:12
  So unfortunately, we have to tune out on that note.
• 56:15
  That's a positive note.
• 56:16
  The thing I like about space exploration is you don't feel depressed or down when you look at it.
• 56:21
  It's true.
• 56:22
  It's true.
• 56:23
  It's it's really picks you up, and especially when you hear about the heroes like Neil Armstrong, you know, it's just an inspiring thing to people, and I think we need more of that.
• 56:32
  Oh, I 100% agree with you.
• 56:35
  And it's nice to do a positive show where we're not focusing on some of the tough issues you don't have to focus on.
• 56:42
  Yeah, for sure.
• 56:43
  Well, this is Tom Harrison, Todd Royal signing out on the other side of the story.