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The End of Swiping? How Dating is about to change forever · What's Uptin?

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  Dating apps were supposed to fix dating.
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  Instead, 78% of users say they feel emotionally, mentally, or
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  physically exhausted by swiping. Gen.
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  Z isn't falling in love, they're burning out.
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  So what does the world's most downloaded dating app do?
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  They will soon let AI go through your entire camera roll.
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  You are who what's in your camera roll, right?
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  It is a treasure trove of your past experiences.
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  This is Mark Cantor, head of product at Tinder, and he says
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  the ERA of endless swiping is over.
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  He claims their goal at Tinder is for you to delete the app.
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  You know, because that means you found love.
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  If the goal is to genuinely make someone delete the app of
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  Tinder, then shouldn't like the default screen be my messages
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  instead of more swiping options? Yeah, that's.
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  It's a great question. I talked to many people that
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  seem to just be over dating apps, but will new AI tools
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  actually save them? This is what's up 10 on how
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  dating could change, change as we know it.
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  Tinder has a new AI powered feature which will use insights
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  from your camera roll photos. What kind of insights are we are
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  we talking about here? So that feature is, is, is still
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  in development right now. But we know that you are who
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  what's in your camera roll, right?
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  It is a treasure trove of your past experiences.
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  So we're doing a couple of different things with camera
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  roll. The first one that is currently
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  live is to help people during the profile creation process.
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  So you know, the average person now the average Genzi is 10s of
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  thousands of photos in their camera roll, sometimes even
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  more. And picking those photos can be
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  stressful and time consuming and people would rather spend the
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  time actually chatting with people and getting off the app.
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  So the first feature we have that is camera related is
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  essentially with the user's permission, looking through
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  their camera. It's all an on device model.
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  So we are not actually storing that data.
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  And then we make a handful of suggestions of photos that we
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  think would perform well and that would be high quality.
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  We show them to the user and we've gone from, you know,
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  you've got 70,000 photos in your camera.
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  Well, you probably have hundreds of thousands.
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  And then we're saying, hey, how about these 12?
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  We think these 12 would work well and then people can select
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  those. But Camera Roll is really this
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  thing that we continue to push into because there is so much
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  amazing information there, but we haven't yet released kind of
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  the the next wave. OK.
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  So is it primarily going to be used for picking the best photos
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  for my profile or is it also going to say, hey, you really
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  like skateboarding, you really like coffee?
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  So you're ahead of the game here.
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  We are actively working on a version where we extract
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  insights from your camera roll, and there's a couple of
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  important things to note that. So what we do do is, with the
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  user's permission of course, we can look through the camera
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  roll. From that, we can actually use
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  vision to see where you've been, hobbies, if you've got pets, if
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  you're a foodie. Those are the types of things.
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  We then surface those insights to the user and say, hey, this
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  is what we've learned about you. There's 73 things we've learned,
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  and the user has the ability to look at those things and always
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  get back to those insights. If there are things that are
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  inaccurate or just things that they wouldn't want to share,
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  they can remove them. And then we use that data to
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  help personalize the experience them and give them
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  recommendations that might have commonalities.
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  And we're not there yet, but I can see a world in which you
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  match with somebody and you have the empty chat.
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  And the empty chat is a challenge, right?
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  So we'd like to fix the empty chat and instead highlight
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  things that we've learned about you that might help spark
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  conversation. Like this person has a dog or
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  something like that. I think we can certainly start
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  there. That's the that, that's, that's
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  kind of like the, the, the easy stuff really.
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  But for you, you're a world traveler.
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  And I think that we can get to a point where we understand that
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  you've been to 23 countries in the last six months.
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  And that's something that a match of yours would probably
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  really love to know. And people, it's difficult for
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  most people to introduce themselves, to advocate for
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  themselves without bragging, right?
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  Like if you meet somebody, it's hard to say, hey, just so you
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  know, Jennifer, I've been to 23 countries in the last six months
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  alone. But AI can kind of do that for
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  you a little bit. So we can, what we're hoping to
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  be able to do is not just do the you've got a dog and you like
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  pizza and you go to the beach, but also understand specifically
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  maybe where you've gone, the number of places you've gone.
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  You're going through a paddle phase right now or something?
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  Yeah, recency is really important too, right?
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  So which is what makes this so fun and challenging is that your
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  camera roll has stuff from 15 years ago probably which it's no
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  longer relevant for us. And we need to know what's
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  relevant and what's not relevant.
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  But if the last 10 weeks of photos have 80 photos of you
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  playing a certain sport, clearly this is something that, like, is
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  interesting to you. And you probably have some
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  stories and you want to bond over that.
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  We might even be able to understand, are you a night out?
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  Are you taking photos at 2:00 AM?
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  Because that's like says something about who you are.
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  It's very interesting because when I went to college, I
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  remember they asked us three questions.
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  They said, are you clean or messy?
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  Do you sleep, you know, early, mid, medium, which is 11:50 or
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  late past midnight? And I think the third one was,
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  do you smoke or do you not smoke?
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  And based on those three questions, they assigned us a
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  random roommate. And I remember there was another
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  university that would ask like 70 or 80 questions.
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  And the retention rate between freshman year and sophomore year
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  of those continuing to live with the, that, that person was like,
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  you know, maybe I think over 70% compared to my university, which
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  was maybe like 20%. And I always thought that that
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  was so interesting when you can use data to, to, to complement
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  matches, right? And not necessarily people who
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  were always picking the same answers, but complementary to
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  that. And I always thought this, the
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  swiping game was, was interesting because I'm like
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  you, you, there's so much data that I can volunteer.
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  And now, of course, the AI is very excited when it comes to
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  doing Yaps. So, so do you think we're going
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  to have, we're going to see like the end of swiping when we have
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  so much, you know, AI that can just speed up this process?
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  Essentially, I love this roommate example, by the way,
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  and I feel like you just invented the camera roll, a
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  roommate, you know, Finder. But yeah, so ultimately for us,
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  our goal is to get people to find connection as soon as
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  possible, have fun conversations, get off the app
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  and have a great time. And I do think that with more
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  information, we're able to personalize the experience
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  better and should ultimately lead to fewer swipes, less time
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  spent and kind of the quicker kind of path to to that
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  connection. So, yeah, I mean, I think we
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  have this feature, you know, since you're a traveler and you
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  get to Australia, New Zealand, you can check it out there.
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  And it's called chemistry. And the point there is we ask a
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  series of questions. It's about 5 to 10 a day.
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  These are fun. Every day like every new day
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  you, every day more. Questions.
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  Yeah, And the goal is to really learn more about who you are,
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  what you want, really get in there and try to understand the
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  nuance of the person and go beyond the like, I like soccer,
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  I like movies, right? These are like very general.
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  And then based on that, we're able to take more and more of
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  that information and give you an like a highly, highly
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  personalized recommendation that will, you know, can be the first
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  thing you do when you open Tinder.
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  So I can imagine that there are people out there that don't want
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  to swipe and want to open up Tinder.
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  They want to get their daily recommendation, see it and be
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  in, you know, express interest or not.
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  And then they can leave. And if they when they come back
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  the next day and they can get their personalized
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  recommendation again too. So for us, ultimately, our goal
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  is to help people find connection, get off the app,
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  meet IRL as quick as possible, and AI has, I think, really
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  given us this leg up and this ability to disrupt ourselves.
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  And so it's interesting to hear you say get off the app.
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  You don't hear many people in Silicon Valley or anywhere in
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  the world say my goal is for you to delete the app.
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  How does that? How do you?
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  Play that balance with driving revenue and and users.
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  Is it just make this so successful that the next wave of
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  of of singles or or people looking for friends just want to
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  use it because it's so effective and you're OK with them deleting
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  it genuinely. I think that that that that's
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  pretty much there is that if you know that coming to Tinder is
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  going to give you success and you can get the app on a Monday
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  and meet somebody great just a couple days later, I think
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  that's tremendous. And if you have if you churn
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  because you've had success, that is a huge success story for us.
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  And we know that Tinder is often people's first dating app.
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  It is like a rite of pass. If they turn 18, they get
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  Tinder. Now, some people meet their
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  favorite person when they're 18, but many people have to go
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  through, you know, a number of relationships.
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  So, you know, the hope for us is if we can get really, really
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  good at finding, helping people find connection quickly.
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  You get the app when you're 18 or 19, you find connection.
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  If you remove the app because you found connection, great.
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  But we know some relationships are not going to last forever.
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  And if they know that that experience was positive, they'll
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  likely come back and tell their friends.
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  And ultimately, if we have to change and evolve our business
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  model, I think that's like a huge success story for us.
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  I used to be in gaming and in gaming, oftentimes we would
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  actually try to get people to spend as much time as possible.
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  And I would, I love about working at Tinder is that it is
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  the opposite. We're really trying to give
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  people a fun experience, but one in which they are spending more
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  of their time actually talking and interacting with people and
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  then again getting off the app and having fun.
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  Do you think we're going to see a day where AI agents are dating
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  each other on Tinder and we don't even know if we're talking
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  to someone's agent or them? On Tinder, no.
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  I think for me, we really want to keep this experience
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  authentic. I don't personally want to
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  receive messages from an AI. I don't want an AI responding as
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  me. I think there's fun in human
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  connection. There's fun in that.
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  I think that we can use AI instead to help spark
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  conversations, highlight information like when you get to
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  that match that would be fun to talk about, You've got friends
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  in common, you've traveled to these countries, you both play
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  rec soccer that people would want to have.
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  I think we would kind of be depriving people if we are like
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  outsourcing that to AIH. OK, so when you think about
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  dating, there's the obvious compatibility, right?
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  Maybe let's say, you know, is it a smoking location?
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  Things like that. Then Part 2, I see it as sort of
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  interest, sense of humor, you know, maybe values, which is
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  like kind of the next stage. The third stage would almost be
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  chemistry, you know, the vibe that you get when you're around
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  them, even pheromones. Do you think like AI can ever
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  get to that stage 3 and really kind of identify if you're a
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  match? So you use the word vibe, which
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  I'm happy about because I was going to use that and I thought
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  you'd be frustrated because it's sometimes it's hard to define
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  what a what vibe is. But ultimately I think if we
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  look at where Tinder was a year ago and where Tinder has been,
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  you know, it was a little bit of a photo centric product that
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  people make quick decisions based on the first photo they
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  see. And we've evolved that and start
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  collecting more information. We now have photo prompts and
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  text prompts, but we can do better and we will do better.
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  I think with Camera Roll, which is what you you really started
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  with, there is the nuance there, right?
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  You really can get a sense of the vibe and it goes far beyond
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  the like movies and like love of the same band and you can really
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  start to understand who a person is.
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  I think we can also start to personalize the experience such
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  that when you're looking at Jenny's profile and I'm looking
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  at Jenny's profile, are we seeing the same thing or are we
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  seeing different things? So those are also things that
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  we're exploring. But I think that with AI and
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  with more information, we can start getting to that vibe part.
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  But ultimately though, like compatibility is difficult.
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  And I think the first thing we can really do is get people into
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  fun conversations and have them kind of work to figure it out.
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  Interesting. So you're as head of product,
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  you lead product design, revenue and safety.
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  That's a lot of different angles within the company.
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  What happens when those priorities flash?
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  How do you think about product versus revenue?
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  Yeah. So for us, what we are moving
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  toward is positive outcomes, positive conversations, we call
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  them sparks, right, a really high quality conversation and
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  nothing can supersede that. So the revenue team is an
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  incredible team. And ultimately we're a business.
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  We have to make money such that we can invest in making the
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  product better and better. But ultimately, if any of their
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  work impacts user outcomes and reduces that, we don't do it.
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  So they know that it's very, very clear.
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  It's the same across the board safety.
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  We often make decisions to make people safer that end up hurting
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  us on a revenue standpoint. We are rolling out a feature
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  called Face Check right now, which is required for all users
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  in California as well as a handful of other countries.
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  It'll be all in the US in the coming months and it requires
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  all new users to do this video selfie to make sure that they
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  are who they say they are and they're a real person.
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  They only want to count. And that will introduce
• 13:22
  friction, which if you're really trying to optimize for number of
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  users and amount of time spent, you would never want to
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  introduce any friction into the into the product.
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  But for us, we are looking at quality over quantity when it
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  comes to that. We of course want to find ways
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  to design that feature where people don't get stuck along the
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  way. But ultimately for us, the
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  priority is on user safety and getting those positive outcomes.
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  And if we have to take revenue hits for that, that's fine and
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  that's the right kind of long term decision.
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  What's the feedback been so far in California?
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  Are people are people doing the check or kind of putting it off?
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  Yeah. It's it's, it's honestly
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  exceeded my expectations. It's a little bit of extra
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  effort, but I think people understand why we're doing it.
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  And it's one of those things that they know that if they
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  participate, it means that everyone else they see on the
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  platform has also participated. So people are getting through it
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  and we've seen more than a 60% reduction in the behavior,
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  essentially prevalence of these bots and bad actors.
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  And the number of reports from our users has gone down by more
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  than 40%. So we see people willing to do
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  it because they understand the value of it.
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  And, you know, again, this will get better and better.
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  So for our first crack in California, it actually
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  performed kind of way better than expected.
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  If the goal is to genuinely make someone delete the app of
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  Tinder, then shouldn't like the default screen be my messages
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  instead of more swiping options? I mean, isn't there an inherent
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  dopamine rush that comes from seeing new people?
• 14:56
  Yeah, that's it's, it's a great question and it's actually
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  something that I've asked. I'm six months into Tinder.
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  I wondered the same thing and I think we've actually tested lots
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  of different things and it turns out when people come Tinder,
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  oftentimes they will go to their messages first.
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  But we know that people always want to get in there and see
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  more people. What one thing that we do that I
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  think it may not be as clear is that often what we're what we're
• 15:20
  going to be doing more of is making sure that when you open
• 15:23
  Tinder, the top of that of your Tinder stack are high quality
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  personalized recommendations. So we think it is important that
• 15:31
  you should check that, but the messages are there too.
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  And I think that's it's really interesting and it is something
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  that I think we consistently will come back to and think
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  about whether that is the right thing to do or not.
• 15:42
  Yeah. It's almost interesting when you
• 15:43
  think about paradox of choice. It becomes a an issue, right?
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  Not not just for for the people using the app, but for.
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  People who will. I mean, yeah, for people who use
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  the app, it's like there's so many choices.
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  I remember, I think it was 2012, I read an article in The
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  Atlantic and, you know, dating platforms.
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  I think it was like match.com, OkCupid.
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  We're really starting to take off and the the article was
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  basically about a woman who was 80 or 90 at the time and she was
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  talking about her lover of 50 years.
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  They would write letters to each other and there would have to be
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  days, sometimes weeks waiting and seeing.
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  Am I going to get the letter back?
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  And how much, you know, demand and lust that created in the in
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  between that that's just been eliminated by by the Internet.
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  And I almost wondered that, you know, if, if paradox choice is
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  causing so much pain within, within dating.
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  And so it's interesting some of the initiatives you're rolling
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  out like chemistry and things like that.
• 16:35
  Yeah, I think it's a great point and I do think that it it, it's
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  a real challenge for us. We actually just started I think
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  yesterday testing a new, our center tab is to see who likes
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  you, right? This is like a really important
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  part of Tinder and it's, it's the page that shows you the
• 16:50
  people who have expressed interest in you.
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  But one of the challenges with it is that for many people, they
• 16:56
  have these long columns of people that are interested and
• 16:59
  it can be difficult to figure out who to pay attention to,
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  right? So this new design that we're
• 17:04
  working on is really trying to highlight who is on that list
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  that really, really is like the diamond, the rough, the needle
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  in the haystack. And similarly, when you get to
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  that messages tab, is there a way for us to do a better
• 17:17
  organization at that, to really highlight the people who you
• 17:21
  have active conversations with, who we think maybe you haven't
• 17:24
  kicked off a conversation yet, but we think they're really like
• 17:27
  high compatibility. These are things that are great
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  questions that we're really like constantly thinking about.
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  You know, for me, I've only been a Tinder for six months.
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  And with that, our CEO is joined just a few months before I did.
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  And there is a newfound focus on outcomes and on these active
• 17:43
  conversations. So it gives us this new ability
• 17:46
  to look at designs that really haven't changed for many years
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  and rethink them based on those new metrics do.
• 17:53
  You have any data on how many users are using Tinder for
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  friendships or how much friendships are being formed
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  because, you know, there's a male loneliness epidemic right
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  now. A lot, a lot of people are are
• 18:04
  lonely post pandemic work from home.
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  Even your moderator on your talk, you know, she said, she
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  said I haven't used Tinder in in ages.
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  I'm married, right? And so, you know, the zeitgeist
• 18:15
  still imagines Tinder for romantic relationships and and
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  so how is the friendship component still important for
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  the product? Yeah, So I think that people
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  come to Tinder and will continue to come to Tinder for the
• 18:28
  possibility of a romantic spark. But I think friendship is often
• 18:31
  the result. So I was talking to a college
• 18:34
  student actually last week, and she told this great story about
• 18:37
  meeting up with a guy on her campus who went to her school.
• 18:40
  She never met before, but she met because of the app.
• 18:42
  They met and they went, and they had boba.
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  They realized after 15 minutes, like, yeah, this isn't like
• 18:47
  there isn't really a spark. So they parted ways as friends.
• 18:51
  They see each other in class. They're totally cool with each
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  other. It's a friendship.
• 18:54
  They didn't set out to be friends.
• 18:56
  They set out to be something potentially more.
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  But the result was positive. I think they both went back to
• 19:02
  Tinder and are now trying to find people that they might have
• 19:04
  that spark with. So I think friendship can
• 19:06
  totally happen. But we are still focused on, you
• 19:09
  know, singles with romantic intent.
• 19:14
  You know, there's hundreds of millions of singles out there.
• 19:17
  So I think there's quite a lot more we can do for that before
• 19:20
  we kind of start branching out to friendship.
• 19:22
  OK. So a survey found that 78% of
• 19:26
  dating app users feel emotionally, mentally or
• 19:28
  physically exhausted by the experience of swiping and
• 19:32
  matching this, this notion of swipe fatigue.
• 19:34
  So we talked about it a little bit, but any plans to
• 19:38
  essentially that you can confirm today that that we might not
• 19:41
  have the swipe feature anymore and and do so another UI
• 19:44
  experience? Yeah, there's a lot of things
• 19:46
  we're doing there. I think that I love this swipe.
• 19:48
  I actually think people love the swipe.
• 19:50
  I think what they don't like is having to swipe so much for the
• 19:53
  outcome. The gesture is a great gesture.
• 19:56
  But you know, if we look back, Tinder has been primarily for
• 20:01
  many years, just a few photos, and there isn't enough
• 20:05
  information for people to really figure out what they can connect
• 20:07
  to. So we are revitalizing profiles
• 20:11
  for figuring out what content we should show.
• 20:14
  We're working on our, our algorithms to essentially be
• 20:17
  able to personalize and give people connection faster.
• 20:20
  But then we're also building new features for people that don't
• 20:22
  want to swipe. Chemistry is a great example
• 20:24
  where if you are not interested in the core tender experience,
• 20:28
  you can answer a handful of questions and we can deliver you
• 20:31
  a small number of highly personalized recommendations.
• 20:35
  And then we're also building things like modes, which I'm
• 20:37
  excited about, which are kind of new ways to use Tinder.
• 20:40
  So we we have now live double date mode as well as college
• 20:44
  mode. So double date essentially you
• 20:47
  pick a friend and you partner with them and you can swipe on
• 20:50
  other double date pairs. It still was swiping but the
• 20:54
  experience is different. You're now only seeing other
• 20:56
  people that want to double date. So again, it kind of brings me
• 20:59
  back to this belief that people actually don't mind the swiping.
• 21:03
  They mind swiping hundreds of times before they get to that
• 21:07
  positive. Connection.
• 21:08
  Interesting. So you want to almost find that
• 21:09
  balance between what's a good amount of swipes, let's say per
• 21:12
  day, not too much, but you're not too little.
• 21:15
  Still have the options, yeah? You know, I think I also believe
• 21:18
  that people want to see a variety of other people.
• 21:21
  So ultimately, like I, I really do believe that the killer, you
• 21:25
  know, that the ideal experience is not just one recommendation a
• 21:28
  day. I think it is a variety.
• 21:30
  We just want to make it enjoyable and we need to make it
• 21:33
  quicker. We don't want people spending,
• 21:36
  you know, dozens of hours swiping endlessly and not
• 21:39
  finding that success. So I do think that we want to
• 21:42
  reduce some of the swiping and improve the quality of profiles
• 21:46
  and give people new ways to Cinder if in fact they do need a
• 21:49
  change. So this chemistry feature that
• 21:51
  you're testing in Australia, New Zealand, you said they're gonna
• 21:54
  have maybe one or two yeah matches per day.
• 21:57
  Yeah, but they can also do the traditional swiping.
• 21:59
  Yep. OK, So chemistry right now is
• 22:01
  actually the, the, the second tab we've replaced an we have
• 22:06
  explorer. Typically we've replaced
• 22:08
  explorer with chemistry. So for users in New Zealand,
• 22:11
  Australia, it's got a a home down there so they can bypass
• 22:15
  kind of the main swipe sack experience if if they choose to.
• 22:19
  So I'm sure you you you would say the same.
• 22:22
  But I have friends in at least a dozen cities who say the words
• 22:25
  Dating sucks in my city in London.
• 22:27
  London the dating is the worst in London.
• 22:30
  The dating is so bad in LA, do you have any data to actually,
• 22:35
  you know, kind of quantify if dating is better in some cities
• 22:38
  or another? I mean, obviously these are
• 22:40
  anecdotes, but I feel like a lot of people just tend to say that
• 22:43
  about whatever. See.
• 22:43
  Yeah. You know, that's a good
• 22:44
  question. I don't have the data on hand,
• 22:46
  but what we do look at is we look at the percentage of people
• 22:51
  that are using our products that are finding success.
• 22:53
  And success for us is quality multi way conversations that
• 22:58
  ultimately lead to people getting off the product.
• 23:01
  So we look at that and we look at different geographies and we
• 23:05
  try to figure out why is it working here more than here?
• 23:08
  Is it an issue with a feature? Is it a cultural issue?
• 23:13
  Can we do a better job? I don't have the data to know.
• 23:15
  It's actually really interesting.
• 23:18
  I do know offhand because I was really involved with the
• 23:21
  development of Double Date. Double Date is crushing it in
• 23:24
  the Nordics. So I'm not sure exactly why that
• 23:28
  is and what that what that says. But I can tell you that in the
• 23:31
  Nordics it is like it's it's it's everywhere.
• 23:35
  So that is where that is really, really.
• 23:36
  Kicking off interesting, how does Gen.
• 23:39
  ZS approach to dating differ from millennials?
• 23:44
  You know, I think that there's a desire for a lower pressure
• 23:48
  experience. I think Tinder has been a little
• 23:51
  bit of a hot or not for many years and it can feel high
• 23:55
  pressure both to create a profile and be represented that
• 23:59
  way, but also to make those quick decisions based solely on
• 24:02
  a photo. So I think that what Gen.
• 24:05
  Z wants, which makes a lot of sense to me, is they want to go
• 24:07
  at their own pace. They want lower pressure and
• 24:10
  they want a reason to kick off a conversation that's not so
• 24:15
  physical, right? So they want to bond over a
• 24:18
  shared interest, a life experience, which I think is
• 24:22
  authentic. That's actually more like what
• 24:23
  happens in the real world when you meet through friends or meet
• 24:26
  through activities. And I think that's how we have
• 24:30
  to evolve as Tinder. We've been a very similar
• 24:33
  product for many years and that's why I'm excited to be
• 24:36
  here and know that in six months from now, when you use Tinder,
• 24:39
  it's going to look very different from the Tinder that
• 24:40
  people used six months ago. Interesting.
• 24:43
  Well, excited to to see those changes, especially with AI.
• 24:46
  I think AI has been, you know, being in San Francisco, every
• 24:49
  single billboard you see is AI has, has Tinder been maybe kind
• 24:54
  of of the mindset that we don't necessarily need to be first
• 24:57
  here, but we want to, you know, take our time and, and do it
• 24:59
  right. I think we want to be early and
• 25:02
  have been early to adopt A lot of AI tools in different ways.
• 25:06
  We were an early partner up with Open AI for both the API usage
• 25:10
  as well as even ChatGPT enterprise inside the company.
• 25:13
  So we are using AI as a team to help us build products, to help
• 25:18
  us prototype and design products, to help us with data
• 25:21
  analysis. And then we are using it
• 25:23
  throughout the app. But I think we're using it in
• 25:25
  ways that is less expected. So for us, like we use AI to
• 25:30
  help people connect IRL, right? We want to use it to like help
• 25:34
  assist people and not replace them with chat bots.
• 25:37
  So for us, we use it to reduce friction and solve problems
• 25:42
  during onboarding. Like, you know, with photo
• 25:44
  selection. We use it to improve safety,
• 25:47
  like the face check. We use it to help people get
• 25:50
  better matches, like chemistry. So it is really woven into the
• 25:53
  product in many different ways, but in some ways it's just not
• 25:58
  as front and center and out as some of the other companies that
• 26:02
  are putting billboards up. My final question here is I've
• 26:05
  done a lot of covering of the birth rate crisis in countries
• 26:09
  like South Korea, Japan, China, even the US.
• 26:12
  President Trump has said we, you know, he wants to do more
• 26:15
  incentives for, for couples to either get married or or have
• 26:19
  kids. Has Tinder been approached by
• 26:22
  any government to kind of make the app free in their country or
• 26:25
  is that something you would consider?
• 26:28
  I'm not aware specifically of Tinder specifically as from a
• 26:31
  match group standpoint, we have a number of of brands pairs in
• 26:35
  Japan, I believe works with the Japanese government.
• 26:39
  I don't work at that product, so I'm not sure of the details, but
• 26:42
  I do think those things are happening at Tinder
• 26:44
  specifically. I'm I'm.
• 26:45
  I'm not aware of that, but I'm open to it for any.
• 26:49
  Yeah, yeah, I was, I was just thinking about that the other
• 26:51
  day. I was like, you know what, all
• 26:52
  these countries, that's where they should be doing their
• 26:55
  putting their money. I mean, yeah, incentivize for
• 26:56
  babies for sure, but you got to create the tools as well.
• 27:00
  Well, cool. Is there any trend in dating
• 27:03
  that has completely surprised you since you've taken this
• 27:06
  role? I think I'm, I'm surprised by
• 27:12
  how much double date has taken off.
• 27:15
  I think we've all like, I've grown up hearing about double
• 27:16
  dating but have never had the opportunity to do it.
• 27:19
  I think that is something that when we pitched the idea, some
• 27:22
  people just kind of didn't necessarily get it.
• 27:24
  But it's, it's very clear that for Gen.
• 27:26
  Z specifically that it had that it's working.
• 27:29
  Double date is available to all of our users, but I think 90% of
• 27:33
  our double date users are under 30.
• 27:35
  So it's clear to me that was like, oh wow.
• 27:37
  Like we've really struck A chord with that feature, with that age
• 27:41
  group. It kind of it's like, like you
• 27:44
  said, it's a, it's a lower pressure way to experience
• 27:47
  something. And I almost feel like if the
• 27:49
  date is bad you have your your friend or your best friend next
• 27:52
  to you that you can go laugh about it with later.
• 27:54
  You know, honestly, I think everything's better with
• 27:55
  friends, right? A good date with a friend there
• 27:58
  is amazing. And if the date is a little bit
• 28:00
  awkward, it's a little bit funny.
• 28:01
  You have awesome stories to tell, to talk about.
• 28:03
  Yeah. Yeah, I'll say.
• 28:04
  Well, Mark, thank you so much for your time.
• 28:05
  Thank you. Very busy guys.
• 28:07
  So really appreciate it and enjoyed the conversation.
• 28:09
  Thanks so much. Thanks.
• 28:10
  For listening to this. Episode of What's up Tim where I
• 28:12
  bring you inside the mines driving tech, money and power.
• 28:16
  Follow along on YouTube, Spotify, Apple or wherever you
• 28:19
  get your podcasts. You can also follow my personal
• 28:22
  account on Instagram at Upton. Would love to connect with you.