Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 353: The Clone Conspiracy & Truth and Consequences

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Issue 353: The Clone Conspiracy & Truth and Consequences · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

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We must be cautious. Welcome to the ned Palty. Hi. This is
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Nick and Ostasu, story editor on Star Wars, the Clone Wars and Star
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Wars bad Batch and you are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Hello, and welcome
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to Aggressive Negotiations to Star Wars podcast. That is well, it's one that
0:29
you absolutely need to be listening to and sharing with your friends. And I
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am Matthew Rushing and with me as he is all the time, which I'm
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so thankful for Jedi Master John Mills. John. Unfortunately, we're on Core
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Hunt today and I would also have to say that unfortunately I can't say that
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the Mantel mix is great here. Well, they have to import it.
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And the thing is, that's really what you have to take into account is
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Corus Hunt has nowhere to grow things. It's just a city planet. So
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as a result, you have a marked drop off in quality. I mean,
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you know, it's just like getting pineapple in the continental US. It's
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not as good as having pineapple and Hawaii. It's just unavoidable. It's just
1:14
shipping delays and stuff like that. You know, a strawberries out of season
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from California and stuff like that. You know, actually that is a horrifying
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picture of course on isn't it. It's like, yes, the Galaxy's worst
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grocery store because everything is freeze dried and shipped out and yeah, oh oh
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man, you know. Okay, rabbit hole. We'll say that for another
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topic another day. We'll talk about that one. Well, I'm so excited
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because we have so much to talk about here this week. But before we
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do, and we continue with our Bad Batch Season two rewatch, you can
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find us all over the place, all over social media. We're at the
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actually want to say a huge thank you to all of you that do that.
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It means a lot to us that you would spend time with us anyway,
2:20
shape or form, and we really do want to say thank you to
2:23
all of you have been listening for so long, especially since John. We
2:27
didn't make a big to do about it. But we've passed three hundred and
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fifty episodes, and so you know, it feels like a big deal,
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but it's not really. So yeah, it feels like it was just yesterday.
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It does feel like it was just yesterday that when we started. I
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actually, you know, what a bit of history to throw out there.
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I still remember the phone conversation that we had. I was living in a
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different state, in a different house, and I was walking by. I
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was actually in our our family room walking along and or no, I was
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in our living room and I was talking with you, and we were hashing
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out what this show would look like. And here we are, like that,
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Paul Rudd, mean, look at us, who'd have thought it?
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Huh? Here we are, well, you know we did, and we
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know you're thankful for it. So but we're diving into We're gonna actually do
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a two parter here today, because in the middle of season two there is
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a two parter and it's The Clone Conspiracy and Truth in Consequences. These two
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episodes go together, and you know, one of the things that I love
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about the bad Batch Seean is the fact that, of course they were not
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afraid to do things like two parters, which I think is fantastic, which
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you know, with the Clone Wars started to do a lot of art season
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episodes and so as it went on, and because this is a much more
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continuous story, we don't get a lot of that. But it's kind of
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classic television, you know, you think of the best of both worlds for
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Star Trek and things like that. So one of the things though, that
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I love about this episode two, and I would say probably the most important
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thing is that, you know, the first episode of this arc, the
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Clone Conspiracy, has almost nothing to do with our bad Batch clones. Well,
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and I don't mean that in a in a in a bad way.
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What I'm saying is is that we don't see them. They're they're not a
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part of the episode. And because this whole episode is uh the what's happening
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on Corasan, which I've got to say is it's phenomenal to be here on
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Coorisances again and h it's kind of terrifying what's happening on Coressan. Well,
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I mean, the thing is, you're you're absolutely right. We don't get
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screen time with the boys, but what we get is something that does have
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everything to do with them, because it has everything to do with how the
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attitude toward clones is taking a market sea change again, and it's one of
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those things where it was always an open question. And in EU Karen Travis,
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i think her last name was, she had a great Clone series of
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books that sort of touched on the idea of how the clones got phased out
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and replaced, and that was one method where we looked at it. Other
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people had different takes on it, but to get an on screen, authoritative
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look at how the empire over the course of what happened on Camino last season
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and then what's happening here in this arc, they it shows how easy it
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is to manipulate public sentiment from a position of power. And I think that
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this is such necessary world building to show that while the Batch is out there,
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they may be doing things to be a positive influence on the galaxy and
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help people in need, but while they're doing that, they can't ever relax
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and think that, well, they found a groove, because we come back
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over here and everything is changing again, completely beyond their control. This is
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essentially another Order sixty six moment, but it's the Order sixty six against the
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Clones. Yeah, I think I love the way that you put that,
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And I think one of the things that it's really awesome about this episode is
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the way it builds so much on the things that, you know, we
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saw in the Clone Wars, with the characters that we met, I think
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specifically of characters like Senator Chucci, and you know, then we get a
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chance to spend time with the corrupt caminoin who, you know, one of
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the very few survivors there, who had been the Senator, who had been
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part of all these backdoor deals that had been happening in the Clone Wars.
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You know, I think those are the things that I think make this episode
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really interesting. And I think that, like you said, this is you
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know, everybody's question after the Clone Wars and we realized that epis that these
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troopers would would not last all the way through to the original trilogy. The
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question became, Okay, what happened to the Clones? How did they get
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replaced? You know, And this begins fervently to answer that question. And
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I think in a lot of ways it helps explain why so many of them
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that we see don't have a problem with turning their back on the Empire,
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and I think that while people could say they could roll their eyes, everybody
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reacted so poorly when The Phantom Menace dared to show government processes and bodies and
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how things are done at that level that it's not just the wild West,
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that there is actually a functional society sort of structure that has to be there.
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But I think one of the online reviews that I read about it was
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like, who knew that a discussion about pensions could be so interesting? Yes,
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but at the same time, what's great is the Kenobi series has him
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encounter a clone who's essentially a beggar and you know, with the long beard
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and everything, and you can head canon that back into this where you're like,
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oh, wow, what did happen to the clones that weren't the bad
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Batch or that escaped whatever Pogrim is coming or anything like that. They're out
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living on the outskirts. They've got nothing, and if anything at underscores I
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think as well the fact that military are a tool of the political class,
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at least in the context of Star Wars, and one could argue throughout human
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history and even the most dedicated military is full of people that are still regarded
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only as tools by those who do not interact with them. We see again
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when the Jedi saw the Clones, they saw people, and when the politicians
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see the Clones, they see an abstract, a tool, a thing,
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And I think this really throws that into stark relief. Well, and you
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bring up something that I think is so important just overall, which is everybody
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is a tool to the Emperor, right. And what's so beautiful kind of
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about this first episode here is that, you know, we see Admiral Rampart
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thinking that he's gotten away with murder and that his pl that he's been and
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you can tell he's been set up with this plot, right. He was
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given the order to destroy Camino uh and he has been given the order to
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reappropriate these funds so that they could start the storm Trooper project in earnest,
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and you know, he's he's thought that he's had all of this this hidden,
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right, So all of these things he thinks that he's got a handle
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on. And then two we learn, of course that he's got this secret
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agent Clone who's been completely I mean, we thought it was bad what they
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were doing to cross Hair, right, but what we learned here is that
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it's even worse what they've been doing to clones. You're getting clones now that
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have been inducted into this like super secret spy organization that's completely off the grid.
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They've had every ounce of themselves erase and now they're they're pawns of the
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Empire. And one of the worst ways that we've seen. Yes, And
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I like the fact that you mentioned worse than cross Hair, because I think
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it shows with this clone. And I'm trying not to get ahead of ourselves
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because we know different things that are coming down the pipeline, but it shows
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us in a very bizarre way. Maybe, but I think in a very
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clear way that cross Hair is definitely not beyond redemption. This clone that they
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encounter is beyond redemption. There is no bringing this person back. And so
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again it gets to that very Star Wars sense of, well, if Darth
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Vader could be brought back, could the Emperor be brought back? And then
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you see in this clone sort of a smaller scale thing like that where it's
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like, no, some people cannot be brought back, right, no matter
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how hard you try. They're just who they are, and it's painful and
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it sucks. I mean there's obvious pain on everybody's face when that trooper bites
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the poison tooth. It's it's pretty stunning too, because it shows how to
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borrow the line for cool hand Luke. Some men you just can't reach,
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and that's terribly take it out of context, but just sort of like that
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line out of context just really illustrates that you're going to encounter people like this
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and it's not even the guy's fault, it's what the Empire did to him,
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yep. And so you should have a feeling of an intense pity,
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especially given the fact that you encounter this soldier who's been turned into basically a
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droid, like a battle droid droid, and his usefulness is simply until he
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gets captured or they don't need him anymore. And it's like, again,
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it underlines that whole idea of this is what the Emperor wants with clones,
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he wants tools. Now I think the question can then become why does he
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think he's going to get that with stormtroopers? And I think maybe that's where
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a little bit of sequel trilogy sort of stuff comes into play, because we
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know that Finn is from an indoctrination program. Maybe that's already in the Emperor's
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brain as that's going to become the Stormtrooper program, you know, phase two.
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You know, I think though you said a couple of things that just
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kind of sent my mind a going, which which is always fun. But
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you know, I think one of the things that I was thinking as you
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were talking about that is that they finally actually cracked the code for what they
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should have wanted with clones, which is kind of scary, right, This
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is exactly what they thought they were probably getting with clones, and of course
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this is not what they got, you know, because these are truly beings
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who have no ability to choose, They have no ability to think differently than
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what they've been programmed to do, and they don't. But at the same
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time, they're able to react in a way that is, you know,
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they have some creative thinking. You know, it's kind of like the best
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of both worlds of what we were talking What you were talking about is like
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that they're a lot like the the battle droids, but there is something else
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about them to which it speaks to them being able to have more to them
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than just a battle droid did. And I think that's what's really interesting watching
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this play out with this character. Well, I think that you're also seeing
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something where I like what you say, this is what they thought they were
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getting with clones, even though we hear you know on Obi Wan's tour the
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facility, clones can think creatively, right, that's what's suppose to make them
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better than battle droids, but creatively within very rigid guidelines, I think is
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what they were hoping for or planning on. And I think that that's where
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you can open up an even larger discussion about what influenced the Jedi had on
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them. But they even seemed a little bit more individual or individualistic. They
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seemed a little bit more individualistic just out of the gate. And then you
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can get into a discussion about the force. Then you can get into a
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discussion about well, maybe Jango fet was a little too individualistic because they said,
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oh, well, you know, we made them more docile, but
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maybe not enough. Yeah. But then also you can go in and you
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can say this is why Clones seemed so much better and more fierce than the
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storm Troopers, or rather, I should say our perception of the stormtroopers,
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because our collective perception of the Stormtroopers is that they were not the crack commandos
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of that the Clones were. I think of Captain Rex and I compare that
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to a Stormtrooper captain, and I'm like that there's a quality difference here,
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and maybe just maybe we're seeing that. That's why the Stormtroopers never quite are
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up to the same level, is because even though they're not a clone program,
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it's it is driven out of them. They are closer to this mindless
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clone than they are to Captain Rex or even Commander Cody or Crosshair, who
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can at least have questions and doubts about what they're doing. And you know,
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again trying not to dip our toes too far into the future, but
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to sit there and wonder, Wow, maybe this is the Emperor's necessary hedge
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to start the Stormtrooper program because he realizes the Clones will never be what he
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wants them to be. I think that there's something about this, And as
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you were talking, I was thinking, think what it becomes is the that
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those that choose to be Stormtroopers buy into the program, you know, And
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I think that's the terrifying nature of the Stormtroopers they are. This is not
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new to anybody, but the point of the stormtrooper in Star Wars is to
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be akin to the Nazi stormtrooper. That's where the name comes from, right,
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That's what we're looking at. And so when you have these these characters,
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then it's the people who willingly choose to do these things, and I
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think that's what makes it so freaking terrifying, right and agreed, But on
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this side, you know, I think the beauty here too is is what
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we see. You know, you you have the clones who have had a
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massive impact on the Republic. They've obviously done the Republic a great service in
18:00
this war. And then what we see here is that they have absolutely no
18:04
representation, right, nobody's there to speak for them, and nobody cares to
18:11
speak for them because they're treated like property. They're treated like less than property
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in some ways, you know, they basically people just want to shut them
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off. And I think the beautiful thing about this is that then you can
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see too why you would have senators like a Chuchi and of course like a
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bale Organa and others that would want to join a rebellion because it's the actions
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like this that help them to see if they were going to treat clones like
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this. Everybody is a pawn, everybody is disposable. Anybody that stands in
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the way of this empire is going to have the same thing happen to them.
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And it's the interesting part of this because you know, you can see
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the way in which Palpatine is utilizing all of these things, and yet at
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the same time that he's doing all this stuff, he's undermining himself. He's
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planting the seeds of his own destruction, which I think is so fascinating.
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And that's the beauty of Star Wars too, I think, is that in
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this larger context of story, we're continually being shown the way in which evil
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undermines itself and creates its own destruction, which is you know, a huge
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part of I think the Star Wars saga. It is, but I think
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that there's also an element to the fact that I mean, again, this
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is getting into the future, which I won't do. But basically, in
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terms of the machinations within plots, within schemes, yes, the Emperor is
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undermining himself, agreed, while at the same time constantly having a backup plan
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for a backup plan, yeah, yea, and so he might undermine him
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it basically, I think it more shows exactly how long term a thinker Palpatine
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is sidious is thinking. Bail Organa says it at the end of you know,
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these two episodes, that the Emperor was just waiting. He knew this
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was coming, and it's like how he had them do the very thing they
20:36
did, the right thing, and the Emperor's plan when we get, you
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know, to the next episode, you know, going from clone conspiracy into
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truth and consequences by doing the right thing, that is exactly what he wanted
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them to do so that he could with Rampart assassinate the assassin. Right,
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and now Rampart has nothing on anybody. Ramparts the trader. Art's gone,
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Rampart has no dirt, which, by reflection, I know this might sound
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weird to go this way with it, but by reflection makes Tarkan even more
21:11
of a monster because we know he's going to make it through this time period.
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So exactly how much of a you'll tell me after I say whether we
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need to believe it, how much of a bastard Tarkan is, Yeah,
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to keep rising up the ranks when this is the type of play that's happening,
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Like that's that's the chilling and terrifying part of it. No, I
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mean, I couldn't agree with you more because you know, we thought that
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Rampart was bad. You know, we talked about the idea that Rampart you
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know, killed one of his own men who wouldn't play the game, and
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the terrifying nature that that let us know, you know, oh yeah,
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this, what's going on in this season is worse than we've seen, right,
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The Empire is getting worse. And so I think the great part about
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this, like you said, is that it continues to let us know that
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the people who are going to be a part of the Empire are just getting
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worse and worse and worse, and they're willing to do whatever it takes to
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be in power and to be on top in the empire. To be on
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top takes the worst of the worst. And so I think, like you
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know, as we think about the second episode here and you know, bringing
22:30
in are our family of here to this and and I I think the most
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amazing part of this this second episode is the way it puts Omega at the
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crossroads of time, the change, and where this kid has had the worst
22:56
childhood possible and she just watch her entire family be treated as if they were
23:07
as disposable as a used Kleenex. And there's just something so powerful about her,
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you know, as she kind of slides down, she's been running,
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She's delivered these plans and the holographic evidence that they need, and then of
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course the Emperor rises and she gets a sense, I think, for the
23:33
very first time, exactly what they're up against, and it's just it's one
23:38
of the most incredibly powerful moments I think in Star Wars. It's just so
23:44
well executed, and it's one of my favorite things in the series overall so
23:49
far, one of the highest pieces of praise I could, I think anybody
23:52
can give to bad Batch. I want everybody who hears me to know that
24:00
if I say something in a way that you don't dig, give me the
24:03
benefit of the doubt, give me a generous read here, because I'm looking
24:07
for the perfect words to say it. But always when we say something,
24:11
somebody could take it the wrong way or whatever. But in an era where
24:18
we are a wawh in franchises deciding to go with women or girls as the
24:23
focus of story, it's not a value judgment. It's just, you know,
24:27
we would all agree there are more female central characters than there have been
24:33
in the past. Not saying good, not saying bad, just saying I
24:37
think we can accept that as a statement of fact. Omega, as a
24:41
testament to the writing and craft of this crew that's working, is easily one
24:48
of the most successful that I've encountered in any franchise because of the tragedy and
24:56
the resilience and the true dynamic nature of her character that is really put to
25:04
the test in arcs like this, Like you're pointing to, this is a
25:08
kid who's seen her entire way of life upended, who has seen where she
25:14
grew up, turned to ash well, a watery grave say goodbye. She
25:19
never should have had to say. And what an amazing character that we see
25:26
her leading the way for the batch who could very easily become the cynics that
25:36
you would project onto this kid. And it shows her character in all of
25:41
these things. Yeah, And that's what makes her so compelling is because you
25:48
and I can watch that too and say, man, there's a lesson here
25:52
about it. There's almost like the Rocky lesson. Life's not about how hard
25:56
you can hit, It's about how hard you can get hit. And keep
25:59
moving forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward. And so
26:03
we have this rocky character at the center of everything in this little girl,
26:11
yeah, who's proving to be the model of resilience for her you know,
26:15
quote unquote older brothers, her surrogate fathers that are around her. So anyway,
26:21
we didn't want to go on too much of a taper. But no,
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that's okay. I think that what you're saying here is incredibly important because
26:30
I think the reason that it's so successful is that it's very much akin to
26:37
the stories that we saw in the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy. Right.
26:45
You are having these kids who are going through these incredibly difficult times and
26:53
what's happening to them is tragic, right, But the beauty of also what's
27:00
happening is that these moments of refinement through absolute terror and you know absolute I
27:11
mean true trauma, right, is refining them and instead of making them evil
27:18
characters, it makes them incredibly good characters. Right. They reject evil,
27:25
they reject what is easy, and they're going to do what is right.
27:27
You know, It's it's the same story right with everybody loves about the character
27:33
of Harry Potter. And I think that we resonate with characters who go through
27:41
difficult times and yet at the same time don't choose the easy path of revenge
27:48
and hate and all of those things. And you know, the horror here
27:55
is that, yes, Omega is being presented with the very worst of the
28:02
galaxy in this moment, the very worst of evil. It's Palpatine, you
28:07
know, it's the Empire as it's rising to its height. I just think
28:11
there's something really special about this. And it's another stepping stone too, John,
28:18
I think in the story of this batch, you know, struggling to
28:25
figure out what it's place is in the universe, and especially since you know,
28:30
by the end of this, you know, we have Echo walk away
28:33
from the family and say I've got to do something more. I can't just
28:41
be on the sidelines anymore. And of course it's it's something that you know,
28:48
Omega has just seen her family be treated like dirt, and now she
28:56
has a member of that family she sees as is not abandoning her, but
29:02
leaving and not quite being old enough to understand exactly why just yet. And
29:10
it's an incredible it's the most important moment up to this point in her story
29:14
like, it's such a pivotal scene and it's going to play out throughout the
29:18
rest of this season and into the next season. And partially it's because we
29:22
are dealing with the ramifications of this child has no childhood, and it's they're
29:29
continually being put in positions that no child should have to be put into and
29:34
yet find a way to overcome. And I think it's a great moment here
29:38
at the end of the second episode. I am not too proud to say
29:47
that the the moment this time really hit even harder than it did the first
29:56
time. And this is a moment where I think, you know, we've
30:00
been really good. I think in giving praise to the voice talent, but
30:07
you know, it's easy to give a lot of praise to d Bradley Baker.
30:11
We've all known and loved his vocal talents for many years now. But
30:15
Michelle Ang as Omega is it's stunning to me in a scene like this,
30:25
how much of I mean a voice is in overlooked and oft an underrated tool
30:33
in and actors repertoire. Yeah, it's an instrument, I should say,
30:41
not a tool, it's an instrument. And Michelle Ang has an incredible gift
30:47
and for me to be watching an animated show and have the sort of emotional
30:55
reaction I did, even though I've seen this before, it's all based on
31:00
that performance. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it, the quality
31:03
animation, the editing, the writing, all of that type of stuff,
31:07
but the actor has to bring it to life. And there's a whole extra
31:10
hurdle right there, because this is not flesh and blood that I'm seeing in
31:14
front of me. But to get that is just such a testament to the
31:19
vocal talent, the vocal direction, everything, And I just wanted to throw
31:26
that bit of praise out there. I'm glad that you did, because,
31:30
you know, I think the beauty is the way in which Michelle Ang and
31:37
then Dee Bradley Baker play that together, you know, because Echo, in
31:41
many ways is somewhat like Tech in the sense that he's not quite comfortable with
31:48
emotion, you know, and like all of the clones, he is not
31:53
as sure of himself of course, in how to deal with a young child
32:00
and being this kind of uncle slash father figure, you know, he doesn't
32:06
really know how to handle that. And so the way in which they play
32:09
off of each other is so beautiful. And the fact that you know,
32:13
he just kind of, well, what does he do. He kind of
32:16
reverts just to treating her as a soldier instead of as a child, because
32:25
it's the only way he knows is to try and alleviate some of the pain
32:30
he's causing Omega. And again, I mean, you're you're absolutely right.
32:39
I'm glad you said that, because I found myself to be much more moved
32:45
in this moment than you know, the first time I saw this, And
32:52
not that I wasn't the first time, but but I think just knowing where
32:55
their story is going and and and where Omega's journey is going to take her
33:00
by the end of this season, and the and that honestly the traumas she's
33:04
going to face to come it, there's something about this that kind of just
33:09
means even more with that meta knowledge. And so yeah, I mean,
33:16
I really appreciate that. You know, this season and I know, you
33:22
know, we'll talk about when we get there, but actually, uh,
33:25
you know, the next season, uh has a two parter right in the
33:29
middle of the season, which is great, and I think it it works
33:34
really well for for them to do that and Uh, it kind of really
33:39
sets the season tone as well. You know, I think this helps us
33:45
to see again how dangerous the galaxy has become. And again it finally answers
33:52
the age old question is exactly how and why the clones get replaced? And
33:59
we talked little bit about but I think it. You know, we'd be
34:02
remiss if we didn't mention just how devious this is by Palpatine, that he
34:08
has set up all of these pieces and all of these dominoes to fall in
34:15
just the right way, and he's playing everybody like a fiddle. And this
34:20
is one of those places where it doesn't feel cheap. It feels perfect for
34:27
the character and what he's been doing to the galaxy since you know, he
34:30
came on the scene. Yes, And I think that pairing with that,
34:37
there's nothing I could add to that. It is perfect. And I think
34:40
pairing with that is that here we are, we go back to thirteen thirteen.
34:45
We're in the Martes sisters garage. We've got all of these sorts of
34:49
elements which I think underline the fact that we have a situation where all of
34:57
these things are happening and we're seeing it happen into the clones, and we're
35:00
seeing it happen through the eyes of the batch. We're seeing what's happening with
35:04
Omega. But as much as it might be disheartening to think of it this
35:08
way, but to the rest of Coruscant and the rest of the galaxy,
35:14
it's just so much noise. These people are just going about their lives,
35:17
and it's not until somebody's life is directly affected that they really start to notice
35:24
anything. And so people haven't started to notice anything because their lives aren't directly
35:30
affected, at least not yet. And I think that's I think that's an
35:36
important thing too, is because you know, you look at it on its
35:38
surface, Courison's still operating the same way Coisson always has. Meet the new
35:43
boss, same as the old boss whatever. But what's happening is actually much
35:50
worse, and but most people don't see it. It's just there, you
35:54
know. There's there's that wonderful line in Star Trek six where Chang says being
36:01
lulled into a false sense of security, which is exactly what has happened to
36:07
the gas exact. Anyway, now I need to go watch that movie again,
36:14
which never never a bad reason to watch that movie any excuse I'm okay
36:19
with, but yes, you just triggered something in my mind by saying that,
36:25
because this is this is the genius of Palpatine. He has lured people
36:32
into a false sense of security, but he's created so much noise. And
36:40
look what he's doing that he's been doing since the Clone Wars. You have
36:46
Big Brother himself literally up on the screen all over Chorussant talking to people every
36:54
day and just droning in their ears. So in some ways people just tune
37:00
it out right as long as there, Like you said, their lives are
37:04
not being affected and they can go about their you know, meandering daily routine.
37:09
That's all they care about. And here's this kindly old man who appears
37:20
enfeebled in a cloak, and you know, hey, come on, but
37:24
what harm could he be doing. He's a servant. They tried to get
37:28
rid of him after all, those traitorous Jedi. Like you can you can
37:32
feel the narrative that they're not even laying out directly in front of you.
37:37
And what I also think about in this moment is the way that he chooses
37:40
to appear to Ezra when he tempts Ezra in Rebels and it's so. And
37:49
I remember having the discussion at the time where I almost wonder if the Palpatine
37:55
in the Senate that we see is different than the Palpatine that gets project out
38:00
there. So nobody's quite sure what he really looks like anymore. Once you
38:04
get outside of the Senate or his inner circle, nobody's really sure what Palpatine
38:08
looks like anymore. Because he's you might encounter a poster of him where he
38:15
looks more vibrant, or you might see a hollow of him and it's like,
38:16
oh, Okay, he doesn't he doesn't look so so bad after all,
38:21
you know, And it's he when he's there in person. He's at
38:25
a distance. What can you tell about him at a distance? He's wearing
38:30
a cloak. Yeah, that's a fashion statement, that's just what he does.
38:35
But can you really see his face? Can you really see what's going
38:37
on? You know? Maybe not? And speaking of voice talent, always
38:43
a treat for Ian Mickdarmat to come back and yes, voice, thank you,
38:46
sir. I appreciate his service. It's greatly goes great, great lengths
38:52
here, you know. That's one of the things I think is great.
38:55
The Disney has done. I mean, you know, we I think we
38:59
have right been hard on Disney for a lot of the choices they have made.
39:04
But I think some of the choices that they have made have been good.
39:07
And one of those has been willing to pull in the actors like that
39:15
whose voices are so identifiable as those characters because they have played them for so
39:22
long. It makes a difference, you know, and not. And let
39:29
me put it this way, after Ian Abercrombie dying, I think this was
39:34
the best choice. You just bring back Ian McDermott because Abercrombie was perfect in
39:40
this role and I think he brought that kind of younger, youthful Palpatine that
39:50
you know, his friends and trying to woo Anakin and everything, and he
39:53
did it so well. There's something about Ian McDermott as the Emperor that just
40:00
changes everything. And it's as much as I love Tim Curry and I think
40:04
he did a fine job. Once Abercrombie was gone, it was like the
40:08
only choice you had was I mean, honestly, was McDermott Like that's it,
40:15
you know, Like Abercrombie sold me. Nobody was ever going to sell
40:21
me again, Like I was. I was like like you used up your
40:24
one chip on that one perfect replacement. You're not gonna although from what I
40:30
understand, Sam Whitwer would be useful in a pinch. Oh man, he
40:35
can. He can absolutely do it. You know. He is so good
40:38
at his mimicry of you know, Ian McDermott, and he has done it
40:45
I think before when it with his voice, talent and filling in when needed.
40:51
So yeah, so there is hope. I'm just saying there is hope
40:54
when when, when, or if a time comes that Ian McDermott is no
40:58
longer interested in doing it. Yes, yes we have, we have someone
41:01
in the wings. So it's okay, there's no need to panic at this
41:06
point. It's all right, It's all right. Yeah. I mean,
41:09
look, I do think that people could listen to our talk through these seasons
41:15
and just think, oh, they're just they're just fan boys. They're just
41:17
there's love in love with everything. And I think the thing is this,
41:28
we're not just fan boys. If you listen to our show, we're willing
41:31
to be critical of even things that we like. Right, you don't love
41:37
Rogue One, but you like it, but you're willing to be critical of
41:39
it. Right, Let go of that one. Can you know? I
41:45
think you know what, you gotta keep coming back to it. Huh.
41:46
We talked through the Kenobi series. Hard hard for me to admit that it's
41:52
not my favorite, right, that was a tough one exactly, So you
41:55
know what, you took that one like a champ. So you took that
41:59
yeah. So. But I think the beauty though, of what we have
42:06
seen in the animation, especially with the Bad Batch coming out with the season
42:13
seven of the Clone Wars the Tales of the Jedi, is that these people
42:19
continually nailing. And I think the reason that they do is because they know
42:24
and they love Star Wars like none other. But they've also been refining and
42:30
honing their craft for years and years and years, and they're the last vestige
42:37
other than Dave Filoni himself of Lucas And I think the thing that I see
42:45
in them is the Lucasian spark. As long as some of those people who've
42:51
been doing that animation since the Clone Wars are there, the eternal flame is
42:54
still there, and so long as they're fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the next
43:00
batch of people that come through the next Bad Batch, I was gonna I
43:06
was actually gonna say, who if we won't be a bad Batch but a
43:08
good Batch. But you know, this has been a robust discussion longer than
43:15
usual for us, which I enjoy. But what I really enjoy, Matt,
43:20
is when people reach out to you online. So where can they find
43:22
you? You can't find me all over the social Media's Matt Rushing zero two.
43:28
Just search the social media. If I'm there, that's the name I'm
43:30
under. You can also find me here on the network with owlposts talking about
43:35
every single chapter the Harry Potter series. You can find me over in the
43:38
TFM network with a bunch of shows. One is the six oh two Club,
43:42
where we're talking about all of the franchises we love outside of Star Trek,
43:45
and John's a frequent guest over there, so you can check all of
43:49
those episodes out. Also over there doing literary Treks, Warp five, The
43:54
Orb, the Artificial Tango, and Saddle Up. But John, if people
43:59
wanted to see what else you've got going on when you're not hanging out at
44:02
the Jedi Temple, you know, doing your meditation in the Room of a
44:07
thousand fountains, Where can people find you? Well, I'm building the room
44:12
of one thousand and one fountains. It's just that much better. And you
44:15
can find me monitor my account at Kessel Junkie where I do that and where
44:20
I also wait with baited breath for the next wave of vintage figures that are
44:25
going to be coming out because it involves Stormtrooper armor, and y'all listening to
44:31
this at the time this is released, you'll understand what that means soon enough.
44:36
So, Matt, this has been one heck of a discussion. I've
44:38
really enjoyed it. But it is you know, you quoted Star Trek Sex
44:44
earlier do we not hear the chimes at midnight? Which I know is a
44:47
Shakespeare quote inside Star Trek X. But do we not hear the chimes at
44:51
midnight? I think it's time to close these negotiations, John, negotiations are
44:59
closed. Join the Revolution. Join. I'm sorry. Was what was that
45:09
that you were flying there? John? What was a prototype prototype ship for
45:15
the Empire? Oh? Oh, salty Bird, The salty Bird, The
45:20
s s Bird. I see Salty Bird. It's great at it infiltrating any
45:25
diplomatic mission and throwing it sideways so that everything goes wrong. That won't be
45:31
a part of the show, but you know, it could be a stinger.
45:36
Oh oh, I like that. I like that anyway.