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#189 - IAM Trends from a CEO Perspective with Axay Desai · Identity at the Center

0:09
You're listening to the identity of the sender podcast.
0:12
This is a show that talks about identity and access management
0:15
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
0:18
started. Welcome to the identity of the
0:25
center podcast. I'm Jeff.
0:26
And that's Jim. Hey Jim hey, Jeff, how are you?
0:29
Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm good man.
0:31
It's it's been an interesting couple weeks, a lot of travel.
0:36
We made it out to San Francisco. We did yeoman's work with the
0:40
idea to Center podcast at the octane conference had a
0:44
fantastic time. Met.
0:46
So many cool people reconnect with old friends and now it's
0:50
back to normal life. Yeah, somewhat I'm literally
0:53
just Just getting off of the plane and rolling into my home,
0:56
studio office here, to get this recorded today.
0:59
But yeah, definitely octane was very cool.
1:01
My first one, definitely recommend it for folks who are
1:04
interested in acting or maybe current customer.
1:06
Maybe kind of want to check them out.
1:08
Definitely give a shout-out to the active team, Stephen April
1:11
Kenzi Joel, I'm sure there are other people that I'm gonna I
1:15
was gonna say you just went down the danger, route of like
1:18
thanking people. You know, you're going to leave
1:20
somebody out who's like an important key person.
1:24
Try to try to give credit where it's due, but yeah, if I forgot.
1:27
Sorry, delicious you there, but yeah, it was a lot of it was a
1:31
great time. Definitely looking forward to
1:33
doing something like that. Again, I'm sure we were, you
1:34
know, you and I working some things for the future, that,
1:37
that might help with that. But, yeah, so thanks to the
1:39
octane crew, thanks to our SM for definitely sponsoring us to
1:42
get us out there and, you know, putting stuff in the hotel.
1:44
So we can actually do that kind of stuff.
1:46
My favorite part of the conference was, literally the
1:48
last, like, five minutes of our last show where the crumble,
1:52
like the walls are crumbling around us.
1:53
So, Like, it was like, you know, hey, the conference is over and
1:56
the crews just came in to start tearing out Place apart.
1:59
And we were in this little room, and the walls are shaking.
2:02
And, yeah. And it's like the Matrix kind of
2:05
being deconstructed around us as were as we're finishing out.
2:09
Yeah. Well, I guess my number one.
2:11
Best thing about the conference was the snacks.
2:15
They did a great job with the snacks.
2:17
You did a fantastic job. No.
2:19
But having the session with Eugenio Pace was kind of a
2:23
highlight to A joking around afterwards because he was
2:26
talking about, you know, his path into identity and access
2:30
management. He's like I was a visual studio
2:33
developer and very Uris that I was like yeah that's what I was
2:37
doing around that time. Like why did I start to
2:39
businesses sold for six billion dollars too much baseball too
2:43
much. Yeah too many hobbies too many
2:46
hobbies. Yeah that was very cool to talk
2:49
with Eugenio and shiv definitely want to highlight moments but
2:53
yeah. It'll be tough for me to forget
2:55
just wall shaking around us as we're trying to do recording.
2:59
We didn't have that. Probably, honey.
3:00
Oh, that was a very fun episode so don't go check that out.
3:03
We have a whole list. I think we did like five or six
3:05
episodes on octane so people can check that out.
3:08
But speaking of Founders and things like that, we have
3:12
another founder with us today, we're going to talk through some
3:15
of the. I am Trends to kind of keep an
3:17
eye on, and this is coming from a CX, CEO and founder
3:19
perspective. We've got ax, I decide.
3:21
He's the founder and CEO of observe.
3:24
D, welcome to the show. Actually, thank you for having
3:26
me Jeff. Thanks so much for joining us
3:28
for one of the things that we like to do.
3:29
When we have someone on for the first time, is to kind of learn
3:32
about their identity origin story.
3:34
How do they get into? I am did, is it something that
3:38
that you chose, or did it choose you?
3:40
I think great questions. So you know, my association with
3:43
identities phase goes, back to early 90s to be honest, when I
3:47
started my career with the computer industry, right?
3:50
So I used to work for Oracle Consulting and is a part of the
3:53
Consulting. Innovations.
3:54
You know, that we go and Implement lot of Oracle
3:57
products, and is a part of that I came across what Apple's
4:01
identity of the days in early 90s.
4:04
And that's when I kind of started my association with it
4:07
and kind of grew as the time passed by.
4:11
But it said maybe 10, 20 years ago, I started my what I demand
4:15
to know what and started my own company.
4:17
The first company I started was managed service provider and our
4:22
organization used to work with Is industry, various companies
4:26
trying to help them with their meat, that audit and compliance
4:29
perspective, right? And this is when we kind of
4:32
threw my associates and Greg and space until about two years ago,
4:37
I saw that the companies that we were working with really
4:40
struggling actually from the identity and meeting that
4:43
compliant, and only requirement in, especially from a security
4:45
standpoint of having his security.
4:47
And this is, when gonna we launched our platform as well,
4:51
to help organizations to address these.
4:53
So, it kind of grew all the time, to be honest.
4:56
And the longer I work in this space that my association with
5:02
identity, gets deeper, and deeper and deeper.
5:04
Yeah, and now you're with observe ID, I guess.
5:06
For those who aren't familiar with observe ID, I'm looking at
5:09
the tag on the website identity security, for multi-cloud and
5:12
hybrid environments, give us like the 30 to 60 second kind of
5:15
elevator pitch on. What you what it is that you
5:17
guys do and the problems you're looking to solve.
5:19
Certainly so identity is basically a cloud new identity
5:23
Center. A resource and tuttleman and
5:25
access management platform right in in in a really short and
5:29
brief worries about identity especially that focuses on
5:34
observability and enforcement for hybrid, as well as the
5:37
multiply our environment. So that's what exactly the
5:40
platform does. Ox a you as a CEO you must talk
5:44
to your peers and other organizations must talk to a lot
5:50
of clients and potential clients and I'd like to kind of pick
5:56
your brain around a few major trends that are happening in the
6:00
IM space. The first is converged, I am
6:03
which we start talking about that a few years ago when you
6:06
started to see platforms that were doing, Multiple areas of I
6:12
am and, you know, Jeff and I usually use the term, the
6:16
triumvirate or the trifecta of IM Services, which is like SSO,
6:22
IGA, and Pam. And so, you saw some players who
6:28
came out with platforms. I do all three.
6:32
Then you what you've also seen is some of the major players,
6:37
you know, expanding into a second or a third tier And in
6:42
fact, today is just looking at, you know, page from forgerock
6:47
where it's like Cloud first identity governance.
6:50
So, you know, we're at the octave conference last week,
6:54
they're you know, pitching a tent in the user lifecycle
6:59
Management in the privileged access management.
7:00
Obviously they're they're Mainstay of courses in access
7:06
management. Single sign-on Etc.
7:08
But I wanted to get your thought because this seems like Like the
7:12
tidal wave Trend. Like it's, it's the one kind of
7:16
taking over the space and I wonder if it spells the end for
7:23
Partnerships or some of the Partnerships that have existed
7:26
between firms. And then I'm also interested
7:30
like, you know, how does this affect the I am practitioner is
7:34
a good trend. Is it does?
7:38
This is better for You know, clients and buyers of I am
7:43
technology or is this something that in the long run is going to
7:48
hurt the buyer? Excellent question by Jim.
7:51
So I personally believe that it's a really a positive trend
7:55
and we have been talking about convergence of all these various
7:59
products for a long time, but never actually, I have executed
8:03
on it. Right?
8:04
What? I normally see into the
8:06
business, when I discussed with Potential Prospect of our
8:10
customers, This spends millions of dollars trying to implement
8:13
this product and they need multiple products to address
8:16
that into an identity security posture Management in with the
8:21
fact that the shortage of the skill.
8:23
Labor said, in the fact that where, you know, kind of
8:27
security is definitely concerns. But, you know, if it takes too
8:31
long to implement or needs a specialized skill set, it
8:35
becomes kind of a create its own problem.
8:38
So we'll try to address some some problems, you're creating
8:41
some additional issues along the process and so, I believe it's a
8:46
good Trend. I think the organizations are
8:47
looking for it. So to speak in our not one
8:51
Devotion, to be honest, but address the problem is on hand
8:54
as opposed to trying to walk down and implementing and
8:57
managing these platforms and still not gaining what they're
9:01
looking out of this product, right?
9:03
Not only meet your clients in order to requirement but as the
9:07
organizations are moving into the cloud identity Securities is
9:11
taking your Forefront as well. So the integrated And in my
9:15
opinion can address security as well and your compliance and
9:20
auditing at once. And so, I mean it's a good Trend
9:23
in my opinion which think about my comment or question of does
9:27
this spell the end for Partnerships?
9:31
I remember Wait back that sell point when they first came out
9:37
with their their cloud system, it was Cloud, single sign-on.
9:41
So it was kind of like competitive to OCTA.
9:45
They wound up dropping that product because I think it
9:49
really precluded them from partnering with vendors that are
9:53
in this other vendors in the space.
9:56
So I guess I'd throw it back to you like is this going to kind
10:00
of become the trend where each Company kind of like, tries to
10:04
solve the entire problem themselves rather than
10:07
complimenting their Suite with with Partners.
10:12
I simply believe, at least, in the short run, the partnership,
10:16
your eyes kind of coming, you know, it's going to stop.
10:20
And as all of the major organizations trying to add on
10:24
this capability into that one product.
10:26
And so that's certainly, my belief that at least in the near
10:31
short-term features. That partnership process is
10:35
certainly is going to stop and I think that's good to be honest
10:38
for the funding organizations, in my opinion because they are
10:43
other D because single platform rather than dealing with these
10:46
multiple vendors and then still try to integrate them and still
10:51
there are unable to gather what they're looking for because, you
10:54
know, I don't meet that requirement is still have to be
10:56
lot of customizations to those products.
10:59
So I really believe that, yes, I sort of agree with what you're
11:02
saying. Jim at listening near to the
11:05
near future. I think that's definitely going
11:08
to put be going to be put on a hole.
11:11
You know, Jeff, I was thinking that for what you and I have
11:17
done. Historically is advisory around
11:21
I am or helping organizations kind of develop their roadmap.
11:28
For their, I am program and part of that is always evaluating the
11:32
marketplace where the technology is available and which one is
11:36
right for us. What should we buy?
11:39
And to me, this makes it Even harder to read the landscape,
11:44
right? There's just if every offender
11:47
does everything that how do we decide?
11:50
Which one's right for us, right? Yeah, Band-Aid is a Band-Aid,
11:54
right point. I know, it doesn't really matter
11:57
if you know, it's a good question.
11:58
I think we've seen this trend in the past, right?
12:02
We saw some of those sort of the Legacy, I am players, like, IBM
12:06
and Oracle, and others sort of build these behemoths.
12:09
See a with another one, right? They have all these features and
12:11
functionality to kind of make the platform and then something,
12:14
you know, something comes along to disrupt it.
12:16
Something like a sale point. For example, 20 years ago,
12:18
however, long it's been right and then you have things like
12:21
OCTA coming in And disrupting from an authentication
12:24
standpoint at some point I think cyber-ark probably was a
12:27
disruptor. I don't know why that might be
12:29
kind of hard to under to grok right now, but I see this kind
12:33
of as a cycle as people were going around and thinking about
12:36
this and it is make it difficult when you have these large
12:39
platform plays, I think we've been in this transition from
12:42
on-prem to the cloud for two decades.
12:45
Now, it seems like there's probably a third or fourth
12:48
decade still ahead. Because there are still a lot of
12:51
companies who are Still on-prem a gym you and I see these pretty
12:55
much every day as we're working with with clients that still
12:57
have a pretty heavy on-prem footprint.
12:59
It takes a while for Enterprises to make a shift that momentous
13:05
from an IT standpoint I'm seeing fewer of those that are 100%
13:10
Cloud. A lot of them were in this
13:11
hybrid scenario and it could be because they have maybe this
13:14
Legacy application that just doesn't work in the cloud and
13:18
it's vital to their business and their business is kind of behold
13:21
into this one app that And of drives, you know, everything
13:24
that they do. So I think we'll see this, you
13:28
know, kind of continue on for probably another 10 years or so.
13:32
Unfortunately, and then you start getting into the
13:33
multi-class. I'm okay.
13:34
Well, let's talk through AWS and, you know, and Azure and
13:38
Google is sort of like the three primary players.
13:41
I think having the capability to be able to spread across all
13:43
three of, those is probably where things will end up.
13:47
There will be people who want to use, you know, AWS for its
13:51
strengths as your for its strings, Etc.
13:53
So you start getting to this platform.
13:54
Okay, well how are we going to do?
13:56
I am across multi-cloud. It's probably going to be some
14:00
sort of, you know, platform that Bridges across those and we're
14:04
seeing sort of like this metal layer of translation taking
14:09
place. You know, we've talked with a
14:10
few different players in this space Ox a is one of the players
14:13
in this space as well with observe ID to kind of help
14:16
organizations really manage across those three different
14:18
environments. So I don't think it's going to
14:20
get easier. I think it'll continue to get
14:22
Harder and more complex but there will be solutions that
14:27
will help simplify some of that from a go-forward perspective.
14:32
Yeah. You've really just touched on
14:34
you know a big Trend towards wanting to get.
14:37
I am as a service. You also see what I see with.
14:41
A lot of clients is moving toward or having already moved
14:46
toward an MSP mssp delivery model.
14:51
You can see those two things converging to being.
14:54
I just want to have identity management as a service.
14:58
I want somebody I want some 800 number or some service now inbox
15:03
that my folks can go to and request access and somebody else
15:08
takes care of it all. So you know, pay by the drink
15:12
whatever you want to call it. But this idea that, you know, I
15:15
want to be able to bundle Services as well as bundle my I
15:19
am Technologies. I could see that Up becoming a
15:22
trend as well that maybe we're talking about next year.
15:25
Yeah, I don't care how the pizza is made.
15:26
I just want the pizza. Yeah, one thing I would like to
15:30
add in here is, you know, we have been talking to a lot of
15:33
mid-market companies that I did and they especially for the
15:37
green feel like large corporations who have already
15:40
implemented some sort of a solution.
15:41
It's really hard for them to kind of move away from it.
15:44
But the reality is the identity issue is across the board.
15:50
Whether it's The Enterprise customers or mid-market as well,
15:54
right? And, and a lot of mid-market
15:56
companies, whether you're talking about any financial
15:58
institute, CPA, firm, whatever, you talk, the other shine of be
16:02
from implementing the solutions. Because of the fact that there
16:05
is too many product, very expensive takes too long to
16:10
implement in the return on investment is just not there for
16:13
them, right? So this converged product or
16:17
platform that we've been talking about is resonating.
16:21
Well, among them. If they're going to look for
16:23
multiple platforms, rather have a one single integrated platform
16:27
that serves that problem. So yeah, I'm glad you brought up
16:31
the bill Market because I think it's the segment of the market
16:36
that it sometimes gets ignored. So many vendors are chasing
16:42
after the big household, name logos.
16:46
And I think, you know, it's my go-to saying With Jeff, is like,
16:51
who needs? I am everybody needs.
16:54
I am all the Middle Market needs.
16:56
I am, and I think the default fallback is like, Hey, we're a
17:00
Microsoft shop but that will only get you so far, especially
17:04
if you've got, you know, different, our trp different CRM
17:08
and you're integrating all these different platforms may be a
17:11
Salesforce or something like that.
17:14
So if you've got a heterogeneous environment, you've got more of
17:18
a need for an And I am system that you know call it converged
17:26
I am but can integrate with all these different vendor based
17:29
Technologies. So let me shift to the next
17:34
Trend. Wanted to pick your brain Iran
17:36
because I know you guys spend a lot of time focused on this
17:39
problem as well which is the multi-cloud.
17:42
So it's organizations that have a presence at AWS Azure more and
17:48
more we're seeing Google Cloud. And have to manage.
17:53
I am for those infrastructure or platform as a service providers.
18:03
They have to have the same level of control over identity and
18:07
access that they have for the traditional on-premise
18:10
environment. And what we're seeing more, and
18:12
more in the Middle Market, is organization is leaving behind
18:16
the, the traditional on-premise A senator and trying to get as
18:22
much as they can, you know, all cloud and you hear about Cloud
18:26
first. But somewhere in station,
18:28
especially younger organizations, are really making
18:32
this shift or have already made this shift to be fully Cloud,
18:35
but managing I am across multiple Cloud vendors is tough,
18:40
right? Yeah, I mean you brought a great
18:42
question, B. A ploughed Faust is definitely a
18:44
valid strategy, right? I mean, that's what I
18:46
reorganisations is. Kind of adopted nowadays but the
18:49
cloud forest. Approach is will not lead into
18:53
uniform environment, especially from the identity active and the
18:58
on-premises environment. As we know, primarily you got
19:01
static for the most part. He wants you to point your data
19:04
centers. There's very little change
19:06
that's happening. Other than creating users and/or
19:08
in the users. And so the traditional
19:11
platforms, I am platforms are working just fine.
19:14
You would go and visit a lie. Audit your environment on a
19:18
monthly or quarterly, your business and you'll approve them
19:20
and you're done for the most part because it kind of secure
19:23
to multiple different ways, whether it's eating into, you
19:27
know, Iceland get network or sitting into your own data
19:30
center, there are multiple ways to secure, but as everybody is
19:34
adopting, This Cloud was strategy, that's changing
19:39
because now, you are out in the open world where your resources
19:44
are much more dynamic. I would add the resource sheet
19:48
model resource like constantly ongoing basis, and it's becoming
19:51
a need in today's environment where you are constantly kind of
19:57
monitoring as well as discovering this, entitlement
20:01
along with your accounts and optimizing them.
20:04
And this is where the holes Cloud infrastructure and our
20:06
management sort of born. Yeah.
20:10
So I feel like the challenges for the I am practitioner well,
20:18
you know, the challenge, but the desire is, I can manage.
20:22
I am my own Prem Network, just fine, I've got my Ig a system.
20:27
I've got my my IDP I've got my privileged access management,
20:32
tools. Why can't I just use those for
20:35
the cloud or how, how far can they get me?
20:38
And then, what do I need to go above and beyond that?
20:42
Yeah, I mean, so, I mean, you didn't get made question night,
20:45
Right. So, the problem with the
20:47
existing platforms and - cause they're not dynamic in the
20:51
nature itself, right? So, that more of, if you
20:54
remember the old days where we would configure and then done
20:58
aggregations on a nightly basis or once a week benefiting, well,
21:02
that scenario doesn't apply anymore in its place wall
21:05
because the infrastructure is much more agile and much more
21:09
Dynamic. And then on top of it, that
21:13
infrastructure is a bore Adding it all different layer on how
21:17
these resources are being accessed constantly.
21:21
And the third layer is the identity, access management that
21:25
multi clouds are providing the all have their own model.
21:27
So there's no a new uniform model across the board.
21:31
So if you have a multi Cloud, you don't know if we are
21:34
following which model you're falling and this is we're adding
21:37
see, I am adds a lot of value where you can bring a lot of
21:40
uniformity across, right? And could you explain to us
21:45
Explain the audience. Just what see I am.
21:49
I always call that Keem. But could you give us an
21:51
overview of Hakeem is? Yeah.
21:54
Kim. Yeah.
21:56
There are multiple ways to pronounce.
21:58
Some people call it C. I am Some Coal seam.
22:00
Some call came of course, but I've heard Kim a lot lately, to
22:04
be honest. So I think looks like
22:05
everybody's kind of concentrating when Kim which
22:08
seems to be the right word and avoid confusion with Siem as the
22:13
same time. So, Again Cloud Kim is nothing
22:17
but you know as I indicated before, it's more of a cloud
22:22
native technology focusing on more of the cloud infrastructure
22:27
environment. It's includes the optimizations.
22:31
Entitlement optimizations in the cloud continues resources as
22:34
well as entitlement Discovery along with the visualisations in
22:40
the all time which is what kind of you know, compromises.
22:44
The See I am one, right? And so in terms of what it
22:49
stands for is cloud infrastructure, entitlement
22:52
management. Sorry I am right?
22:55
So, yeah, I definitely feel like that's a big piece of the
23:00
puzzle. Jeff.
23:02
Are you having any thoughts here in terms of this Cloud
23:06
management challenge? Well, before I even get the
23:09
cloud managed, I'm thinking with their needs to be like some sort
23:11
of like dictionary or book, or something, it's in to try and
23:14
keep up with. All of the different acronyms we
23:16
have in this space scheme, cam. What if your name is Kim, you
23:20
know, do we have to come on things him Commander?
23:23
Remember, her can command. Oh no, it's just a cartoon or
23:26
something. No, no, she had a like, an IT
23:30
radio show, that was popular through the 90s and early 2000s.
23:35
Oh, I don't know. You're a really old.
23:36
So I had a have no idea what that is, multi-cloud.
23:41
You know, I think it's It's not going away.
23:45
Obviously, I think the strategy that I see with a lot of
23:48
companies falling, as they would like to be on one Cloud for the
23:51
sheer cost savings and simplicity of managing it.
23:54
But there is always this wrinkle that comes through.
23:57
And, you know, hey, we are, you know, Microsoft shops, of
24:00
course, we're using Azure. And then you start talking to
24:02
the business is, oh yeah, we use AWS over here or you see gcp,
24:06
you know, over here for something else.
24:07
I think it is important because what happens is, if you don't
24:10
know about it, you've lost it to the visibility of it, which
24:13
means you're going to vary. Difficult time, try to protect
24:15
it. The challenge becomes as that.
24:17
All three of these vendors have different ways of managing
24:20
identity in the cloud. There is no standard for this is
24:23
how we're going to set up an account across the different
24:26
Nao. Different Cloud providers.
24:28
So you have to have not only the knowledge but the expertise to
24:31
be able to manage all three of those things and you know at
24:35
least right now identity as an industry in a field is hot, it
24:40
is difficult to find people who have the in-depth knowledge
24:42
across all three. So Being able to effectively
24:45
track what is going on within those environments when I'd any
24:49
perspective and then have a necessary, you know, skills
24:53
Insight know how business process to be able to manage
24:57
across those those different environments is going to be key,
25:00
because people are not saying, hey, let's, let's not move to
25:03
the cloud. Everyone is going to the cloud
25:05
how quickly they do it is. The question it is not.
25:08
Oh, yeah, we're going to go back to on-prem because it was
25:10
better. Nobody is doing that.
25:12
So, this is, if your If you're already struggling with it,
25:15
right? You got to get your hands around
25:17
it. If you're planning on going to
25:19
it, you should be planning on. How are we going to manage the
25:22
identities within each of those clouds as well?
25:26
I feel like Akshay was alluding to something that is not enough.
25:31
I don't think it's necessarily A multi-cloud or even a cloud
25:36
problem, it just happened to these things kind of came up
25:40
around the same time that public clouds became available.
25:44
So it's containerization in other words, just breaking the
25:48
model that you know you have to have a server to run software or
25:53
even a VM to run software is like now you're just running
25:56
containers and then devops so you can do all these things.
26:00
If you have your own data center that you run yourself or a
26:05
private Cloud, but I think we're has a shins are saying hey you
26:12
know when we move to AWS We're going to do devops or it's a,
26:17
it's an application or some initiative of the organization
26:20
is taking. We're going to build some new
26:23
platform or application. We're going to do it if us or do
26:27
it right, this time. And then so they go and they
26:29
build this great. I Tianjin and they try to not
26:35
get the security people involved because they're just going to
26:38
slow it down. Then the security people are
26:41
like hey this thing secure, right?
26:43
Like I better check. Make sure it's secure.
26:46
Oh my goodness. Like I don't even know what's
26:49
going on here. So I think it's kind of like an
26:52
education. Is that the dev world?
26:55
The infrastructure world is changing so rapidly.
27:00
And you know, what we've been doing in our own data centers
27:04
for 20 years, really hasn't changed all that much we went
27:08
from servers to VMS well now that we're going to Containers
27:11
this like a whole new ballgame Ox I know you wanted you to
27:14
chime in there. What do you got to say about
27:16
this? Yeah.
27:17
What I was going to say is you're absolutely right idea.
27:19
Might so what have we noticed in the industries?
27:23
Lot of time, the companies who go through this group lines and
27:26
other requirements. They definitely have hybrid
27:29
environments, but as soon as they start talking about the
27:32
cloud, they all have multi-cloud.
27:34
They are definitely more than one Cloud, but when the auditing
27:37
complaint comes, they are lost. They don't know how to respond
27:40
to them. And so, for a long time, they're
27:42
just ignoring I've seen. Simply ignore him.
27:45
They try not to bring that up unless it becomes an issue.
27:49
And so I think the Security Professionals are still catching
27:53
up and still realising that this Cloud identity securing.
27:56
The cloud is is a real problem in education is definitely is
28:04
required and especially in multi-cloud.
28:07
And, you know, getting these containerize or AKs or reduce
28:12
functions that we, we know. That nowadays people that was
28:16
using it along with the infrastructure is a core, all
28:19
that collectively make it so complicated that security
28:23
professional does not want to actively address these issues
28:27
because they don't know how to. So education is definitely
28:31
warranted. So the third area that I wanted
28:33
to bring you back to it kind of feels like it was a trend that's
28:38
kind of losing steam. I want to get your opinion on
28:42
those user. Behavior analytics or user and
28:46
entity Behavior analytic. So it's like exit beam was like
28:51
the company nobody could stop talking about a couple of years
28:55
ago. I was really jazzed on it
28:57
because the vision of being able to understand what is normal
29:02
behavior versus what is anomalous?
29:04
Behaviour to me, sounds like exactly what is needed to stop
29:09
an attack, while it's happening. But I think a lot of Of
29:14
organizations found it's like you know the Visions, great
29:19
getting it, putting it into practice.
29:22
It's probably a little more difficult but I wanted to throw
29:24
it to you. What are your thoughts on user
29:27
Behavior analytics? Absolutely, so I personally
29:30
believe that user Behavior art is very important in being
29:35
proactive to address these issues, right?
29:37
So there's always a debate versus reactive versus
29:39
proactive. I mean, there are a lot of
29:41
platforms and tools out there that you can be Reacted to the
29:45
you can collect the law, then you can analyze and then you can
29:47
respond to it. But in order to stop this cyber
29:51
attacks, you have to be proactive.
29:53
And how do you, how do you stay Proactive or do you find
29:56
anomalies right unless and unless you do some sort of the
30:00
user Behavior Analysis or some predictive analysis with RTI a
30:03
man or whatever that may be? There's no other way to predict
30:07
at the moment. I'm sure lot more research and
30:10
development needs to be done, but I believe it adds a very
30:13
important. Current components to reduce or
30:16
mitigate the cybersecurity research, especially identity
30:19
with it cybersecurity is. So, I believe it's here to stay.
30:24
Is there more work needs to be done?
30:25
I'm sure there's more work needs to be done in in order to make
30:28
it more usable and really useful in the real world but it's
30:34
definitely important aspect of what we do to address.
30:38
How do you see the market addressing it in the future?
30:40
Is it a feature of Products, networking products, or do you
30:47
feel like this is core? I am functionality becomes the
30:51
best of breed you know, product approach.
30:56
It's definitely a feature set and I must tell you that we
30:59
offer that feature in observer, the as well.
31:02
We have essentially calling access detections and based on
31:05
various anomalies and user behaviors.
31:07
We haven't actually taken automated action.
31:09
So it's certainly a future within our platform and I see in
31:14
a lot more platforms. Offering that, another thing I
31:18
must point out Jim is, every time we speak, we talk to
31:22
prospect. They're all Are like really
31:26
interested. How does your Max's Behavior
31:27
work? Or how does the user behavior
31:29
analysis work? And they're like intriguing,
31:31
they want to know more about it. So we certainly see an interest
31:36
in that film starred. Yeah.
31:38
I mean, it seems to me like the vision spot on its who's going
31:45
to be able to execute and make it into something that just
31:49
works. So, oxy, been super generous
31:54
with your time, it's been Really fun conversation you and I had a
31:58
chance to connect earlier in the week and, you know, kind of prep
32:01
work preparing for the show and everything and we started
32:05
talking about all the travel that I've been doing.
32:08
I'm not sure how much trouble you've been doing lately, but
32:12
you did mention that you, you really enjoy traveling.
32:15
So I, you know, it's our tradition around here to end on
32:19
the lighter. Know we spent the last half hour
32:22
talking about all these heavy. I am topics.
32:25
So let's talk about travel for a minute.
32:27
What is your favorite or best travel experience and, and what
32:33
I'm looking for here is something that the listeners
32:36
might say, hmm. I think I'd like to do that as
32:40
well. Yeah, great, they topic gym.
32:42
So I must tell you that I'm a traveling freak, along with my
32:46
family. I am been to, I would say at
32:49
least 20, plus country myself and my family.
32:54
Pretty much more or less. Similar.
32:55
We try to go to visit at least one new country, almost every
33:00
year, maybe even more than one. Once it's, in fact, in my best
33:04
experience, I would say, is going to Iceland in the winter
33:09
watching Northern Lights. I think that experience was
33:13
phenomenal. I learned about Northern Light
33:17
since I was a kid, all right? And I was fascinated since then,
33:20
I'm sure everybody is for the most part.
33:22
Who knows of, not really light. And so, we had an opportunity to
33:26
go to Alaska. As you know, that you can watch
33:28
Northern Lights from lot of different locations around the
33:30
world rental asked about far, I would say, maybe five six years
33:34
ago, we're cheersing in the couldn't really see the normal
33:37
light. And so I had another opportunity
33:39
to go to Iceland two years ago in the middle of the night.
33:44
Clear sky clears. Pure Sky were watching him like
33:48
in. We would wake up in the middle
33:49
of the night drive all the way into the national park and sit
33:54
there in the open in the freezing cold.
33:56
Watch the Western World alight but it was so real.
34:00
I mean it was just a fascinating experience watching this
34:04
colorful light. I would say that everyone you
34:08
know for working at Ford or has a time to go should have that on
34:12
their bucket list to be honest. So Iceland or the Northern
34:15
Lights That's right. Yeah.
34:17
So I think Iceland is always been one that I want to do as
34:22
well. They've got the geothermal pulls
34:27
their right so you can go. Yes, they do.
34:29
Swim in hot water and it's completely I guess invented from
34:36
the core of the Earth. Yeah, so we would go in the
34:40
middle of the night to watch the Northern Lights.
34:42
Once we see the normal line to be go and jump in that this
34:45
geothermal pool in the middle of the night at Tyrion 3:00 in the
34:48
morning. So it was a fantastic
34:51
experience. That sounds awesome.
34:54
Hey Jeff, how about you? You've had?
34:55
Yeah. Yeah.
34:56
I've had some pretty good travel experiences.
34:59
Yeah. I've been pretty fortunate, you
35:00
know, before I get to my night was just kind of pondering here.
35:03
I think more people should travel and I wonder if it's eat
35:06
and especially visiting other countries.
35:08
Trees. Is it easier for the Eastern
35:11
Hemisphere to visit other countries because there are just
35:15
so many more that are connected to each other versus, you know,
35:18
on the US side, maybe the Western Hemisphere where you
35:20
basically got two, oceans that basic kind of separate you other
35:24
than going, you know, North or South either to Canada or down
35:28
to South America stuff like that.
35:30
It's kind of got me thinking here is like, okay, well, I wish
35:32
more people would travel but it's expensive to go across, you
35:34
know, a big ocean, especially you know, flights these days.
35:38
So just food Just no need to like bring it out as like I was
35:42
kind of kidding my mind. My actually, my best travel
35:45
experience is probably I got to actually Paris, I went with my
35:50
wife to Paris for our 10-year anniversary a while back and we
35:57
stayed near the Louvre and had like, basically kind of like
36:01
this to like, two-bedroom apartment, basically the
36:05
kitchen. So we kind of lived, like,
36:06
parisians for basically, two weeks, you know?
36:09
Got to go down on the street, get fresh bread.
36:12
I you made liberal use of Google Translate to get things done.
36:16
You got to see all the stuff that is in Paris.
36:19
It was just a fantastic experience, I would go back in a
36:22
heartbeat. The other one is a visit
36:25
actually made it. Should I India?
36:28
Well, actually ten years ago roughly, so kind of my first
36:34
international travel and going to, you know, completely
36:36
opposite side of the world, nineteen and a half hour.
36:39
The flight getting off at the wedding in Chennai and then, you
36:45
know, walking out. And just seeing this sea of
36:47
humanity of just waiting for Pete, you know, people waiting
36:50
to pick up at the airport. So and we had really great hosts
36:54
and able to kind of help me make sure that I didn't do anything
36:57
too stupid. And keep me, Keep Me honest with
37:00
things. So I think those are my two
37:01
favorite things but I would definitely, you know, a coax a
37:05
here is get out there and see the world especially visit other
37:08
countries you know that Think that is a big eye-opener for a
37:11
lot of people kind of realize that, you know, your ranch
37:13
dressing isn't the most important thing in the world.
37:17
Jim, what about yourself? Well, I've got a your comment
37:20
about travel and that you wish more people could do it.
37:23
Because one thing I realize, so, I travel to Western Europe and
37:30
my 20s or early 30s. And one thing I realized was
37:35
like, this is the first time I've gone somewhere, and Ben,
37:40
The quote-unquote Foreigner, you know like I was The Outsider
37:45
right and it was all the people who made me feel welcome as like
37:50
this is this is the way it should be.
37:52
And you don't realize that when you've never been in that
37:55
position, there's not no learning like actually doing.
37:59
And when you're in that position then people go and extend.
38:03
The Olive Branch to you and make you feel welcome.
38:05
You just have much more want to do that yourself.
38:08
So I could Pick some cool experience like that, but I'm
38:11
going to actually pick a United States location myself.
38:15
But it is the what I think is one of the two coolest dates.
38:19
So you have Alaska, which had never been to the one.
38:22
I was going to choose as Hawaii. I've been to Maui Hawaii and to
38:26
me that's like that's where it's at.
38:28
And I say that the at the Ritz-Carlton so that made it
38:32
even 100 times better. I mean they know customer
38:35
service like nowhere else I'd be that is The best hotel I've ever
38:41
been to in my entire life. Their customer service was
38:44
fantastic. It's interesting that you're
38:47
talking about a hotel and mention their customer service.
38:49
Not like the rooms or the bad, or the food, and it sounds like
38:53
a real 1% problem here is what I'm hearing Jim.
38:55
So do like, we brought a bottle of champagne down to the pool as
39:00
a glass bottle of champagne and rather than somebody coming down
39:04
to say, you're not allowed to have class at the pool.
39:06
They brought a plastic carafe and said Would it be okay if we
39:10
put your champagne in this graph?
39:12
So rather than reprimand, I mean, that's a total mindset.
39:17
Like, you know, you'd expect to be reprimanded.
39:21
Yeah. Treat everybody.
39:22
Like the the Toddlers and their champagne.
39:25
You can't have Glass by the pool.
39:27
Let's put that into a plastic sippy cup for you because hey
39:31
we're all happy because it wasn't like, take your darn
39:34
glass and get out of our pool, right?
39:36
Exactly. Are you just or you pull the
39:37
power moving? You just you know, I open the
39:39
bottom, you chug it right there. The entire thing in front of
39:41
them, socks. A, I am totally, I, you know,
39:45
I'm sold on the whole Northern White's things and there's a
39:47
bucket list trip for me, for sure.
39:48
I would love to go to Iceland Sweden, sort of Denmark, Norway,
39:53
that, that whole area and be able to try and take it in.
39:56
So, I am very jealous of the story that you just told about
39:59
the lights. I mean, as that is badass.
40:02
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, why don't we go ahead
40:05
and wrap things up. Before we get things kind of
40:08
cleared out. For this week.
40:10
Any final thoughts XA, what should people be kind of taking
40:12
away things? Conversation and know?
40:13
We kind of talked about a few different Trends, you know.
40:16
Kind of your perspective is a CO and as a Founder converged, I am
40:21
multi-cloud. You be a sort of this.
40:23
I am platform, you know, kind of thing that's out there.
40:27
What are, what is the, you know, the one thing that if someone
40:30
listen to this, this is what you want them to take away.
40:33
I think if I have to say, Jeff one thing is identities.
40:36
Becoming a security problem. Now, right?
40:39
I Denis should not be looked upon just as audit and
40:42
compliance requirement. I think that's a one single most
40:45
important thing that coming out especially moving every
40:48
organizations in the cloud and energy security should be on the
40:52
Forefront of everyone's thought process, Jeff about yourself.
40:55
I want to close out this week. I think on the conversion, I am
40:59
front, I think it is all of us who do our homework in terms of,
41:05
developing our requirements. And then really understanding
41:09
And checkbox compliance. So you're going to have a number
41:14
of growing, number of products now that do all the things and
41:21
it's on the consumer to make sure you do your due diligence,
41:26
do your homework. I think some one of the factors
41:29
is going to be a lot of organizations are going to talk
41:32
about what they can do and what's on the roadmap and kind
41:36
of tried to blur the lines. Or they have an I'm product and
41:39
a cloud product and yes we can do all those things or you
41:43
talking about your Cloud product the one that you're talking to
41:46
me about are you just talking about your portfolio?
41:47
Then the third layer is okay, how do you license your product?
41:53
And when we're talking about all these different features, which
41:57
one's am I going to get with the licenses that I'm interested in
42:01
buying? So it's just, you know, I don't
42:04
want to say buyer, beware, it's more.
42:07
Make sure you do your homework, make sure you approach.
42:09
Really don't just look a like a table with a bunch of check
42:13
boxes. So it's much more than that.
42:16
Yeah, you know, I just realized this is going to go live on
42:20
November 21st. This is we're recording a
42:22
Thursday before that, and it's Thanksgiving this week.
42:25
So hopefully people have some time off.
42:27
They get to enjoy with their family, friends, whoever, you
42:31
know, get some food and stuff like that.
42:33
And if you have to work that day and very sorry, thank you for
42:37
your, thank you for your service.
42:38
I guess, we'll go ahead and leave it for this week.
42:42
I'll have in our show notes, a link to oxidize, LinkedIn
42:46
profile as well as a link to observe ID.
42:49
Observe i d.com so that you can kind of check out what he's been
42:52
working on as well as you know links to Jim myself for folks
42:55
who want to reach out and go from there.
42:57
So you can find us on the web by Danny at the center.com.
43:01
We're on Twitter at least so far.
43:02
It seems like it's slowly doing away with all the Twitter stuff
43:06
is liquid on, but we are there at idac podcast and we'll go
43:10
ahead and leave it for this week.
43:11
Thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk with you all in
43:13
the next one. Thanks for listening to the
43:19
identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
43:22
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and identity
43:25
at the center.com.