Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 25 June

Transcript

The Kenny Report | 25 June · The Kenny Report

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Laura from the sky You Center. This is the Kenny Report.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Wiki leak's activist Julian Assange on his way home to
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: freedom and Australia, perhaps within twenty four hours or so.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: That's good news.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: But while the lunar left and the loopy right lionize him,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I'll explain why Assange is more sinner than saint.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On the energy debate, I'll speak to the man who
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: reported to.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: The Howard government on nuclear energy nearly twenty years ago.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Only three sleeps left till the big presidential debate. Kristen
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Tate will look at the traps for both Biden and
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Also nutty global warming activists, battery fires, at
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: pill testing trials for Victoria. Look at all that with
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Susio O'Brien, Stephen Senna, Tiempo, and of course the great
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Tim Blair.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Let's get cracking.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Nobody should feel sorry for Julian Assange. He's the victim
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: of his own trauma, and now that he's on his
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: way to freedom, it's clear he's benefited from exactly the
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: sort of government confidentiality and secrecy that he's disrespected and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: jeopardized and railed against.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I'll show you that in a moment.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: But first, here is Assange overnight our time, boarding a
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: private jet after being released from prison in the UK and.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Flying out of Britain.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Assange is likely to arrive in Australia a freeman later
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: this week. And watching the media today you might have
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: got the impression that Australia had found its second saint.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: You know, first there was Mary McKillop and now Jillian Assange.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: And I want to pay enormous tribute to the courage
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: of Julian Assange, who stood his ground in the face
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: of the United States military. And what was Julianissanj's crime?
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: His crime was calling out the war crimes of the
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: United States military and the complicity of this government in
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: that awful, appalling war.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: The hagiographies about Assange are ridiculous.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: The bloke is a shocker.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: In fact, the ridiculous efforts to deify.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Him remind me of the life of Brian.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Now you listen here, He's not a massage.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: He's a big naughty boy.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Assange is no messiah. He's a former computer hacker
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: who's done wrong and he's very lucky that his country
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and many others have stood by him and protected his rights.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: The key reason he's been in various forms of self
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: imposed and judicial custody is because of his own choices,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: his own determination to avoid justice, and at least some
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: of those people who've lobbied for his release have also
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: done so while they've been respecting that reality.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: If you ask me, do I think what he did
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: was morally correct, No, it wasn't. But the issue for
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: me is territoriality. This was an Australian citizen. He was
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: not a citizen in the United States. He was not
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: in the United States when this felony is what they
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: said was created.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: A dozen years ago, Julian Ossans refused to go to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Sweden to face up to sexual assault claims and investigations
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: against him, claiming he was afraid of being extradited to
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: the US over his wikileagues dumping of classified documents, and
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: until now he's refused to go to the United States
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to face up to charges of ataining and releasing classified information.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: So he was holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy in
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: London for years, claiming to be a hero and treated
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: like a hero by the lunar left and the loopy right.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: But really hiding from accountability, and for the past five
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: years he's been in jail in the UK because he's
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: been fighting that extradition to the United States, and even
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: in recent months as high level of negotiations have attempted
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: to resolve his case, it could have been ended earlier
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: if it agreed to go to the US to formalize
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: a plea deal. But he's too paranoid to set foot
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: on the US mainland. That's why Asan's reportedly is heading
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: to the tiny US Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands near Guam,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: where US law applies, but of course he's closer to home.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: We understand he'll plead guilty to a felony of conspiring
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to acquire and publish classified information and be given a
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: sentence equivalent to the time he's already served waiting for extradition,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: and therefore be free to return to Australia. Importantly, he'll
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: return to Australia a convicted criminal, but his incarceration will
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: be over.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Excuse me.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: He'll be fated, of course by the media and others,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: as a hero, but he most certainly is not a hero.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Assuanjra is an anarchist, an activist and most likely narcissist,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: but no hero. Through WikiLeaks, he knowingly made public vast
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: amounts of classified intelligence and other documents that put US
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: sources in foreign countries and others in danger. He didn't
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: carefully analyze it and report what he could keeping confidential,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: anything that could harm others or jeopardize national security, you know,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: like a good journalist would. He just dumped the lot
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: out there, essentially to do damage to the US and
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: therefore to its allies and intelligence partners like Australia. For
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: all those reasons, I've got no sympathy for a sanch.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: The deal to get him back here is very familiar
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: to me. It's similar to the one struck for David Hicks,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: who pleaded guilty to a charge over effectively aiding terrorists
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: in Afghanistan as part of a plea bargain to get
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: home now full declaration. I played a role in getting
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: that deal underway through meetings with Hicks's Australian lawyer when
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I was chief of staff to the ven Foreign Minister
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Alexander Downer. But the same principle applied, that is, US
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: justice had to be served. They couldn't just turn someone
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: loose from Guantanamo Bay when there were.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Charges to be answered.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, especially here in Australia, there
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: was broad support for the notion that whatever the alleged crimes,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Hicks's time in custody had been enough, more than enough.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So that's what Hicks did.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: He pleaded guilty and took a sentence that meant he
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: returned to Australia and spent only a short time in
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: jail and now assand just doing something similar except where told,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: his sentence will match what he's already served, so he'll
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: return to immediate freedom in Australia. It's worth noting that
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: all this has happened in confidence. There have been negotiations
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: carried out through classified diplomatic cables and the like, and
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: neither diplomats, nor politicians nor the media have broken those
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: confidences because that could have jeopardized the process. Our Minister
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: was even careful in Parliament today because the arrangements are
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: still unfolding.
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: The Government is certainly aware that Australian Citisen Mister Julian
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: de Sance has legal proceedings scheduled in the United States.
• 7:14
  Speaker 7: While this is a.
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: Welcome development, we recognize that these proceedings are crucial and
• 7:19
  Speaker 6: they're delicate. Given these proceedings are ongoing, it isn't appropriate
• 7:23
  Speaker 6: to provide further detailed comment.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: So the point is that Assange, in these dealings has
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: benefited from the very government secrecy that he's refused to
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: respect and which he rails against. Even his mother seems
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to recognize this, issuing a statement saying she was grateful
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: her son's ordeal was over and that I am grateful
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that my and that this shows the importance.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And power of quiet diplomacy.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, quiet diplomacy, not confidence, has betrayed, not confidential diplomatic
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: cables made public, undermining national security. Now, let me be clear,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I think this is the right outcome. I think the
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Albanezi government and the Biden administration have done the right
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: thing here. This is a sensible outcome. Assuns has not
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: gotten away with this scott free. On the contrary, he's
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: now paid a high price for his own actions. But
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: enough is enough, after all these years, he deserves his freedom.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: The trouble is I expect that once he gets back here,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: he'll probably do what Hicks did and repudiate his own
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: guilty plea. Hicks challenged his conviction in the US and
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: had it overturned on the basis the law didn't exist
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: at the time he was accused of breaking it.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Likewise, despite his guilty plea, I.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Can imagine a Sons protesting his own innocence when he
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: returns to Australia, and I can imagine him then continuing
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: to campaign against the US the way he's always done. Still,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: it's a free world, and so be it. But thankfully
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: his trauma in custody will be over So from a
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: humanitarian point of view, that's a good outcome. And for
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: most of us after this week, can we dare to
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: hope that we might not have to bother talking about
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Julian Assange ever again? Now I want to update the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: climate and energy debate and the nuclear debate too, and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have a bit of fun worth it
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: fun with it tonight. There's plenty of options for some
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: musical interludes here.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: For instance, a bunch.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Of idiotic climate protest has brought coal export operations to
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a standstill in Newcastle today, which is bad enough, of course,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: but two of them climbed onto a coal train and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: gave us this crime against popular culture.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: One, two, three, four.
• 9:52
  Speaker 8: Stop in the name of blin before we ray apart.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: Stop in the name of life.
• 10:02
  Speaker 8: These could be our last chance before revolve.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: This coal is killing This coal is killing us.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Stop in the name of human decency. Stop in the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: name of art, of music, of culture. That was Diana
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Ross and the coal seems and I'll show you the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: second half of that number with Tim Blair later. He
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: gives you an insight into the intelligence of these anti
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: coal protesters. In Federal Parliament, the Prime Minister wasn't much
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: better when he was asked why he opposes nuclear when
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: labor in the UK wants more nuclear energy. He seemed
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to suggest the reason we don't need nuclear here is
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: that we've got plenty of sunshine.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Master about Britain.
• 10:46
  Speaker 9: I noticed there weren't interjections about the sunshining in Britain.
• 10:52
  Speaker 9: I noticed that because those of seem to think that
• 10:56
  Speaker 9: every country is.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: The same, Really, solo panels will get us through.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: This is the same Anthony Albaneasy who said we could
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: rely on solar power at night. These renewable zealous just
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: don't seem to grasp the problem of intermittent power, do they.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: They seem to think that batteries are a feasible option,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: which simply.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Is not the case. And then the Climate and.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Energy Minister made two conflicting points in one answer. He
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: boasted about the taxpayer funded energy rebates that Labor has
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: desperately come up with because power prices have gone up
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: so high so quickly, and he also boasted that wholesale
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: prices are going down.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: In six days time.
• 11:36
  Speaker 10: Every single Australian with an energy bill will get relief
• 11:40
  Speaker 10: from this government following the relief in last year's budget.
• 11:43
  Speaker 10: And of course, mister speaker, course, mister speaker, what's also
• 11:47
  Speaker 10: happening is that energy prices, wholesale energy prices which were
• 11:51
  Speaker 10: three hundred and seventy five dollars a mega.
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: On our when we came to office worth.
• 11:56
  Speaker 10: Seventy six dollars a mega on our.
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: In the first quarter.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Management speak. That's less.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Seriously, mate, we don't pay wholesale prices. We have to
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: pay what the retailer bills us. And if power prices
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: we're heading down, Labor wouldn't be throwing around billions of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: dollars in rebates. This mob just don't want to admit
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: that they're responsible for this self imposed energy crisis.
• 12:21
  Speaker 11: Powerball sayers chesnuts not sponsible, shut nuts not sponsible. She
• 12:28
  Speaker 11: can't answer for he gets up due he thinks is
• 12:33
  Speaker 11: not nut not sponsible?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Shut nuts?
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, albow blackout Bowen and turncoat Keen. They're responsible for
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: our energy future. What could possibly go wrong?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: The nuclear energy debate is not new for Australia. Work
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: started on a nuclear planet at Javis Bay back in
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the late nineteen sixties before we decided to go with
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: coal and gas instead, and back in two thousand and
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: six the Howard government decided to look at it again,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: commissioning a report into nuclear energy.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: It was conducted by nuclear physicist.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And one time Telstra boss Ziggy Swakowski, who joins me. Now, Ziggy,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: good to talk to you again. Haven't spoken to you
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: for many a year, that's true. First up, let's talk
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: about your report to the Howard government in two thousand
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: and six. I think you saw the potential there for
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a domestic nuclear energy then, but subsequently a decade or
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: saw so later you were quoted as saying we'd sort
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: of missed the bus and.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It was uneconomic.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Where are you at now with what Peter Dutton is proposing?
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Is it viable.
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: Oh now, I do believe it is viable, and I've
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: kind of as a result re engaged in the public debate.
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: I think a couple of things have changed in my
• 13:56
  Speaker 7: mind over the last few weeks, actually, and that is
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: we now an important person, the opposition leader, advocating not
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: just in a political way, but with a degree of
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: commitment to have a look at nuclear power with a
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: view to making it or rolling out nuclear reactors if
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: the numbers stack up. And in addition to that, to
• 14:21
  Speaker 7: reinforce that commitment, he has announced the locations, the proposed
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: locations of seven power stations and indicated this used to
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: be a very big deal in debating nuclear power. Indicated
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: that the network could be government owned and paid for,
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: at least for a time. So, all of a sudden,
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: two of the things that I think bothered a lot
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: of people. I was amongst them some years ago. How
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: are you going to finance this? Who's going to pay
• 14:52
  Speaker 7: for it? The answer is the government? And what about
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: a general concern about what about these powerstaws? Where are
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: they going to go and how will they be distributed?
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: And now we have the answer to that. So are
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: the game on. I think we have a community of
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: Australians now were reasonably well informed about the pros and
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: cons of nuclear and renewaballs. It's an appropriate time to
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: have an evidence based debate. I think there's apart from
• 15:25
  Speaker 7: some silly stuff that goes on, I think we're going
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: to have that, and then with an election on the horizon,
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: it'll be serious.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: If the government's going to finance these nuclear generators, will
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: that financing deliver a return to tax payers in the
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: long term, will it be financially viable, and will electricity
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: prices to consumers be pushed upwards or pushed downwards?
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: Well, I think this is really important because it depends
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: on how the financing of all of this is likely
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: to occur. Now, take seven power star nuclear power stations.
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: Let's put a number on that it's going to cost,
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: and there's a lot of qualifications channel it's just my
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: views one hundred billion dollars or thereabouts. So what do
• 16:11
  Speaker 7: you do. Do you immediately load the cost of all
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: of that investment onto household and no, And that would
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: be ridiculous. Because it's government owned, the government has considerable
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: flexibility in how they admortize the costs of the investment
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: and when they seek to return or impact reduce the debt,
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: and then there are ways of doing that. And I'm
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: of the view, and I speak somewhat with experience with
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: the NBN, that whether a power nuclear power network at
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: the turn of the century, it will be a very,
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: very valuable asset and there will be cues of investors,
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: whether there's separation funds or infrastructure funds, who want a
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: piece of it. And I think at that point, if
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: the accounting is it will be a very attractive.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And the effect on prices in the insurim Again, it's
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: entirely up to the government of the day because and regulators.
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: It's very important because if I own the network, I
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: can decide, well, I'm going to charge for it. And yes,
• 17:18
  Speaker 7: there are rules and you can't distort the market, et cetera.
• 17:22
  Speaker 7: But I can decide, and this has happened overseas, that
• 17:27
  Speaker 7: I'm going to fund I'm not going to charge householders
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: in this particular area because this area includes a reactor.
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: In other words, a bit of a subsidy or a
• 17:39
  Speaker 7: bit of an incentive, and that seems to be very
• 17:42
  Speaker 7: appealing to people, and so much so that now when
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: they know that a new reactor is going to be installed.
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: Lines are forming about yes, and I want. I'm lobbying
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: for my suburb to be the locations for the next
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: reactor because I will be practically better off for a
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: time and I believe in the fact that it's the
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: right answer anyway long term.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: They're fascinating stuff.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Now there's two aspects of this that I think are
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: very important opportunities for Australia. The Coalition doesn't want to
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: address them now, they want.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: To confine the debate.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I suppose one is what the Scarce Royal Commission looked
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: at in South Australia. That is the way Australia could
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: actually make a lot of money by taking radioactive waste
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: from overseas processing and storing it here. And the other
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: aspect is, if we're going to have a domestic nuclear energy,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: why wouldn't we process uranium here, make our own fuel
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: robs so that we're completely self contained for the whole
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: life cycle, the whole nuclear cycle. Do you think that
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Australia should look at both of those aspects.
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: I think we should look at them. I think the latter,
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: which is to enrich uranium and make pure rod etc.
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: Is a very difficult path to go. It's not like
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: there's not enough enrichment capacity around the world. There is enough,
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: and then all of these security and military consequences of
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: getting involved in highly enriched uranium. So keep it on
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: the list, but I wouldn't put it near the top.
• 19:09
  Speaker 7: The management of spent fuel rods and of nuclear waste
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: in general is an opportunity for Australia. I mean, if
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: you're going to find the ideal geography in which or
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: within which you build a waste repository, you would look
• 19:27
  Speaker 7: for a place that was geologically very stable, a place
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: where that you were not approximate to running water, an
• 19:36
  Speaker 7: area remote from people, but in a zone where you
• 19:41
  Speaker 7: get trained people to work on the technical aspects of
• 19:46
  Speaker 7: waste management. When you go through the boxes that characterize
• 19:50
  Speaker 7: an appropriate venue for waste repository, it ticked them all
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: in many parts of Australia. I mean, in fact, arguably
• 19:57
  Speaker 7: Australia is going to end up being the most detractive
• 20:00
  Speaker 7: area for storing nuclear waste and charging for it and
• 20:04
  Speaker 7: making a very strong economic return. So the Royal Commission
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: Essa Royal Commission in twenty sixteen came up with that
• 20:12
  Speaker 7: sort of a view then he gets very challenging as
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: you try to get the community on side exactly sixteen,
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: it was very hard. In twenty twenty four, I think.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: There's a chance we will see Ziggi Slkowski. Thanks so
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: much for joining us. I appreciate it. Ziggi Swlkowski there
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: who headed up that investigation into the nuclear industry for
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: the Howard.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Government nearly twenty years ago.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Now it's got to Bridget mackenzie, the National's Senate leader,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: joining us alive from Canberra. Good to speak to you again, Senator.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I want to start off before we get into that
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: nuclear debate on the Governor General's two hundred thousand dollars
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: pay rise, which I kicked off my show with last night.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: A lot of people critical of this, but the Coalition
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: is going to support this. Well, the Coalition has sort
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: of raised an eyebrow at it, but you're going to
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: support it in the Parliament.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Well, great to be with you, Chris.
• 21:05
  Speaker 12: I think it's important that we have a representative of
• 21:09
  Speaker 12: a monarch that is paid appropriately. Obviously, previous people that
• 21:16
  Speaker 12: have held the Governor General's role have actually had significant
• 21:21
  Speaker 12: public pensions. There've been members of our defense force prior
• 21:27
  Speaker 12: judges Etcus Moiston hasn't had that. I think what I'm
• 21:31
  Speaker 12: more concerned about is that our own representative of our
• 21:35
  Speaker 12: monarch here in Australia has a very close personal relationship
• 21:40
  Speaker 12: with the Prime Minister, and so I would like to
• 21:43
  Speaker 12: have seen someone with a little more distance, given that
• 21:46
  Speaker 12: she will be representing the Monarch's interests here in Australia
• 21:51
  Speaker 12: and needs to have a level of personal separation. I think,
• 21:55
  Speaker 12: whereas she's a very close personal friend of the Prime Minister.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she's a bad for a number of reasons.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: She's also a Republican. But the idea of getting paid
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: seven hundred thousand dollars when you've got a couple of
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: houses and butlers and drivers and everything taken care of.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I think most people in the country are just in
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: a cost of living crisis. Pretty angry about that, but
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I want to get onto other issues. Julian Nsanze good
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: that he's coming back. He's been five years in jail,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: not to mention all those years hold up in sort
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: of a self determined isolation in the embassy. But the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: idea that the people are praising him for some sort
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: of Satan hero for free speech where are you at
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: on that.
• 22:35
  Speaker 12: I've never been one of those people. I'm in a
• 22:38
  Speaker 12: party room that has a lot of those people in it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 22:41
  Speaker 12: I think this guy just dumped a lot of documents
• 22:44
  Speaker 12: that he received into the public domain, and I think
• 22:49
  Speaker 12: that put a lot of people and a lot of
• 22:52
  Speaker 12: our security platforms at risk. So I don't see really
• 22:57
  Speaker 12: happy for his family. Obviously, for his mental and physical health,
• 23:01
  Speaker 12: this is going to be beneficial for him as an individual.
• 23:05
  Speaker 12: But I do not think what Julian Essange did was
• 23:09
  Speaker 12: appropriate or the right thing to do.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Just very quickly, we don't have much time, but you
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: just did Ziggy Swatowski talk about the potential, the commercial potential,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the export earnings Australia could get from taking overseas nuclear
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: waste and processing.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: It and storing it here.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of dollars to be made out of that.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: That's been found in a Royal commission. Why won't the
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: coalition look at that as well?
• 23:32
  Speaker 9: Well.
• 23:33
  Speaker 12: We've made it really really clear Chris that where waste
• 23:37
  Speaker 12: is stored is actually going to be part of our plan.
• 23:40
  Speaker 12: We're looking at what the UK does currently, which is
• 23:43
  Speaker 12: store waste on site and then at the end of
• 23:46
  Speaker 12: the assets life going to a permanent repository.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: We know for the nuclear.
• 23:51
  Speaker 12: Subs that we're getting as part of the Orchest deal
• 23:53
  Speaker 12: that the government, the Labor government is going to have
• 23:55
  Speaker 12: to announce where that permanent repository for the subs will be.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: And we'll be looking very very closely.
• 24:02
  Speaker 12: At that location for where waste can go post the
• 24:07
  Speaker 12: asset life. And remember increas this is in excess of
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: nine decades.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: We want the best a long way off nuclear.
• 24:13
  Speaker 12: Power stations, generating net zero emissions for decades to come,
• 24:19
  Speaker 12: and having those really strong intergenerational employment opportunities for these
• 24:23
  Speaker 12: regional communities.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining, a senator. I appreciate it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: You've been chased over the building with divisions there and
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. That's a Senator Bridget mackenzie there. Look,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: this nuclear waste issue is a huge commercial opportunity for Australia.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: You could pay for the nuclear reactor side of it
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: by looking over the waste. But I think everybody thinks
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: it's going to be too politically difficult, so they'll push
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that to one side.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Stick are out after the break.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You're going to catch up with Susio O'Brien and Stephen
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: senat Tiampo talk about Julian Nissan's whether he's a center
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: or a saint.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Also what's up with the new vaping laws.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Let's bring in Susi O'Brien from The Herald Son in
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Melbourne and Steven Senta Tiempo Radio.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Two that will see breakfast host in camera. Good to
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: talk to both you. Juliana's sons, saint or sinner.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: SUSI, Oh, I'm just glad he's home.
• 25:15
  Speaker 13: To be really honest, I think I didn't necessarily agree
• 25:18
  Speaker 13: with everything he did, seven hundred thousand pages of documents,
• 25:24
  Speaker 13: potentially quite harmful, but I'm actually glad to see him home.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: I think he spent enough time in jail two by
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: three jail cell.
• 25:31
  Speaker 13: Twenty three hours a day in solitary confinement. I think
• 25:34
  Speaker 13: it's very good that they've managed to break her a
• 25:36
  Speaker 13: deal and bring him home.
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: What do you reckon, Stephen, I'm sick of talking about
• 25:41
  Speaker 14: the bloke. I mean, there's a couple of things that
• 25:42
  Speaker 14: really annoy me about this. Firstly, that people try to
• 25:45
  Speaker 14: paint him as a journalist, I mean fair InCom and
• 25:49
  Speaker 14: try to play him with.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Some sort of whistleblower.
• 25:51
  Speaker 14: I mean, this bloke dumped classified documents that put military
• 25:55
  Speaker 14: and intelligence personnel in danger and then tried to avoid
• 25:59
  Speaker 14: and nswering charges on a number of different crimes. And
• 26:03
  Speaker 14: we've tried to make him into some martyr. I mean,
• 26:04
  Speaker 14: fair and income. There is a poster boy for lack
• 26:08
  Speaker 14: of accountability. This bloke is it now? Okay, some people
• 26:12
  Speaker 14: might say he spent enough time in jail. I think
• 26:13
  Speaker 14: forever would have been a good enough time. But look,
• 26:15
  Speaker 14: I'm just sick of talking about the bloke, and I
• 26:17
  Speaker 14: hope he doesn't become sort of some sort of media
• 26:19
  Speaker 14: darling when he gets back.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I can guarantee you he will.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you. I mean I think
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: what this guy did was reprehensible. I think he had
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: to pay a price. But I think it's a good
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: thing that he's being brought home now, because enough is enough.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: But the way that he's lionized by so many in
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the political world, and it's really the hard left and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the hard right, they both see him as a bit
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: of a hero. Most people in the middle are a
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: bit more skeptical about him.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: But Susie, the media love him. Seemed a lot of
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: in the media.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Seemed to see him as some sort of freedom of
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: speech hero. I'll tell you what, If he's a hero
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: for freedom of speech, it's the end of journalism. It's
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: just raugh of his rules.
• 27:00
  Speaker 13: I can't see him as a journalist, as you say.
• 27:01
  Speaker 13: I think he has a certain status in terms of
• 27:05
  Speaker 13: these documents, but honestly, I think it's time that he
• 27:09
  Speaker 13: was brought home. But I don't see him as a hero.
• 27:12
  Speaker 13: And you know what, I'm sure he will do a
• 27:14
  Speaker 13: very very.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Generous book deal. I won't be buying his book.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I tell you a what, Stephen, There's two things I predict.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: That is, even though that he pleads guilty apparently tomorrow
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: in this Northern Marianna Island hearing, when he gets back
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: to Australia, he'll say he's innocent and he'll be a
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: regular on the ABC.
• 27:37
  Speaker 14: No doubt about that. But you know, it points to
• 27:39
  Speaker 14: atle broader problem that we have here in Australia, Chris,
• 27:41
  Speaker 14: and whether it be Julian Assange or David Hicks, or
• 27:45
  Speaker 14: Chappelle Krby or the Balley nine, we seem to have
• 27:48
  Speaker 14: this problem with Australians being held accountable overseas. It's almost
• 27:51
  Speaker 14: like if Australian brings the country into disrepute and misbehaves overseas,
• 27:56
  Speaker 14: we need to rush in and save them from themselves.
• 27:58
  Speaker 14: I mean, people are going to take accountability for their
• 28:00
  Speaker 14: own actions.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right, That is exactly right. People do
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: have to take accountability and they get help from their
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: everyone gets console assistance from Australia, but they can't be
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: expected to be sort of given a waiver from anything
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: that they've done. Now I want to ask you also
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: about what's going on with these vape laws.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: It's weird to me.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Susie, because you're in a state there that's just about
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: to bring in pill testing, right, so teenagers can go
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: to concerts and take illegal drugs and have the authorities
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: actually test them for them. So it's kind of a
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: green light to elicit drugs. But at the same time
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: we send you want to ban vaping. Aren't these two
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: ideas at odds?
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Well, it's fascinating.
• 28:44
  Speaker 13: I mean, this whole thing about the vapes being available
• 28:47
  Speaker 13: in pharmacies only for people over eighteen in plane packaging.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: The only problem was no one.
• 28:54
  Speaker 13: Told the pharmacists about this deal, and they are absolutely
• 28:58
  Speaker 13: up in arms.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: I'm actual all for it.
• 29:00
  Speaker 13: I think that we need to take the vapes out
• 29:03
  Speaker 13: of the local shops and ensure that kids aren't getting
• 29:07
  Speaker 13: them on the way to school.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: And this seems like a fair middle ground.
• 29:10
  Speaker 13: I think farmercis pharmacists should stop whining and do their
• 29:14
  Speaker 13: job and help keep people safe. In terms of pill testing,
• 29:18
  Speaker 13: I'm actually all for it.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: I've got kids who are twenty and.
• 29:21
  Speaker 13: Eighteen who are going to these festivals, and we know
• 29:24
  Speaker 13: that in the last two decades, seventeen Victorians and sixty
• 29:28
  Speaker 13: four Australians overall died from contaminated pills at festivals. And
• 29:33
  Speaker 13: if this can keep help kids, keep keep kids safe
• 29:37
  Speaker 13: and safe lives, then I am all for it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: My worry is it has the opposite effect because it
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: legitimizes pill taking, and the best way not to die
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: from taking a pill is not to take a pill.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: And I see you nodding, Steve, and I think you
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: agree on that. And the thing with vapes to going
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: to the chemist to get a vapors, I mean it's
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: it's it's dangerous. They'll buy those fantastic jelly beans you
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: can get to the chempust.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I'm at the shop. Well yeah, but no, Chris.
• 30:03
  Speaker 14: Look, if you're going to argue that these things are
• 30:05
  Speaker 14: a quit smoking tool, then I think what And I
• 30:08
  Speaker 14: can't believe I'm agreeing with the Green Sea, But I
• 30:10
  Speaker 14: think what happened today was a fairly good compromise. That
• 30:13
  Speaker 14: they are available over the counter like patches or nicotine
• 30:16
  Speaker 14: gum or any of these kind of things. Look, I
• 30:18
  Speaker 14: don't think vaping is a great alternative to smoking, so
• 30:21
  Speaker 14: I think regulating is a good thing. But I just
• 30:23
  Speaker 14: want to touch on the pill testing thing for a moment.
• 30:24
  Speaker 14: We've had it here in the Act for a while
• 30:26
  Speaker 14: and it gives really, I mean, the comfort that it
• 30:30
  Speaker 14: gives parents is not real. Because I've spoken to the
• 30:33
  Speaker 14: pill testers. They can't actually determine what is in these pills.
• 30:36
  Speaker 14: They scrape a little bit off, test that and say okay,
• 30:39
  Speaker 14: that's either clear or that's contaminated. But because these things
• 30:42
  Speaker 14: are made by dodgy Bikei's in some caravan somewhere, they
• 30:45
  Speaker 14: can't actually guarantee that the whole pill is safe. So well,
• 30:48
  Speaker 14: I mean there's no safe drugs, let's be honest about that.
• 30:51
  Speaker 14: But they can't guarantee that the whole pill is not contaminated.
• 30:54
  Speaker 14: So we're giving a false sense of security to these kids.
• 30:56
  Speaker 14: And when you look at they talk about a great
• 30:58
  Speaker 14: success here in the Act, the minuscule number of people
• 31:01
  Speaker 14: that actually get their pills tested at these festivals makes
• 31:04
  Speaker 14: it almost negligible.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they're testing anywhere near all the
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: pills that are being consumed.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Anyway, we'll keep going on that one.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: It's happening as state governments around the country looking at
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: it and trialing it.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Now in Victoria, I.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Want to go to Camber and breaking us from the
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Senate because there was the Greens motion put up to
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: recognize the state of Palestine. The Labor senator Fatima Payment,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: of course, wanted to support the state of Palestine. Apparently
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: you're seeing the live pictures there now, she apparently crossed
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: the floor. The motion didn't get up, the Greens motion
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: didn't succeed, but she crossed the floor and.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Voted with the Greens and against Labor.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Now, ordinarily, Susie, this would see someone expelled from the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Labor party.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Can you see Labor having the metal to do that?
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: What are they doing moving these kind of motions? Aren't that?
• 31:58
  Speaker 13: Why aren't they dealing with hot spital funding and school
• 32:01
  Speaker 13: funding and keep keeping people safe and helping with the
• 32:05
  Speaker 13: cost of living. I just think it's completely ridiculous.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's ridiculous. I think there should be
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: supporting Israel. But the point is, Stephen, normally that gets
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: you expelled from.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: The Labor Party.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: The Labor Party will be very reluctant to expel a
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Muslim woman for supporting Palestine. But that'll just open the floodgates.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: If they don't, it'll show special treatment.
• 32:26
  Speaker 14: Oh they London to a brick that you're right, Chris,
• 32:28
  Speaker 14: they won't expel her. But what it does is now
• 32:31
  Speaker 14: allows the opportunity for other Well, you would hope it
• 32:34
  Speaker 14: allows the opportunity for other Labor members to show their conscience,
• 32:37
  Speaker 14: particularly on things like nuclear energy, because there's plenty on
• 32:40
  Speaker 14: the right of labor that support nuclear So let's hope
• 32:43
  Speaker 14: that this does open the floodgates.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll so real it is.
• 32:46
  Speaker 14: The Greens have moved The Greens have moved the motion
• 32:48
  Speaker 14: to recognize a state that doesn't exist.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Iah, Yeah, it's absurd. Let's have a listen to fat
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: of a payment. She's had a word to the media
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: after that vote. I was not.
• 32:58
  Speaker 15: Elected as a open representative of diversity. I was elected
• 33:03
  Speaker 15: to serve the people of Western Australia and uphold the
• 33:07
  Speaker 15: values instilled in me by my late father. Today I
• 33:11
  Speaker 15: have made a decision that would make him proud and
• 33:14
  Speaker 15: make everyone proud who are on the side of humanity.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: I'll take a few questions.
• 33:20
  Speaker 16: In the art that is a prerogative for my party.
• 33:25
  Speaker 15: I believe that I have upheld the party ethos and.
• 33:31
  Speaker 13: Called for what the party's platform has stipulated.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: You told in advanced if you across the floor, your
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: heuristic expulsion does have been related.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: To you, Yes, in various forms.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she knew the risk, but she went ahead.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: We'll see what happens if a Jewish politician from Labor
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: made a similar move acrossing the floor and any number
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: of other issues as you mentioned, Stephen, It's going to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: be fascinating to watch, but we are all out of time.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us, Stephen, Senate Tempo and
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Susie O'Brien. You can read Susie in the Herald Son
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and you can listen to Stephen on two double C
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: and Canberra got to get to a break on the
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: other side, the.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Public treated like mushrooms again when it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Comes to COVID pandemic advice. And also the stage now
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: set for that first US presidential debate. Let's duck back
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: down to the nation's capital and catch up with Liberal
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Senator Alex Antiq.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Alex, thanks for joining us.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: So. I don't know whether you were just in the
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Senate for this Palestine vote, but Labor Senator Fadam M.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Payman crossing the floor to vote against her party. Do
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: you expect Labor will now expel her from the Labor Party?
• 34:42
  Speaker 17: Well, look, I mean that's anyone's cares I suspect probably not.
• 34:46
  Speaker 17: I mean, I think this in many ways highlights the
• 34:48
  Speaker 17: difficulty they have with the various competing forces inside their
• 34:52
  Speaker 17: own party. I mean, you know this, if anything does
• 34:55
  Speaker 17: this highlights some of the issues they have on this
• 34:59
  Speaker 17: issue and what it's done to the party room over
• 35:02
  Speaker 17: there at the caucus, I should say, so, I don't know,
• 35:05
  Speaker 17: I will see, but it's the first time in thirty
• 35:08
  Speaker 17: years a Labor senator has broken ranks, I'm told. And
• 35:11
  Speaker 17: there were interesting scenes that you always know something's up
• 35:13
  Speaker 17: when there's media up in the gallery room, and they
• 35:16
  Speaker 17: were snapping away.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, they usually leave you sentences alone to your sleepy
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: sessions in the Red room. Now, the reason I got
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: you on is your one of the politicians, a broad
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: cross section of politicians from the Greens and Independence, through
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Labor and the coalition parties who went to the US
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: to lobby on behalf of Julian Nissanz.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: You must be very, very pleased with the outcome.
• 35:44
  Speaker 17: It was a great, great surprise that I have to say,
• 35:46
  Speaker 17: I didn't expect it. We'd been hopeful for a little
• 35:49
  Speaker 17: while that this would come to fruition. That trip back
• 35:51
  Speaker 17: in September of last year was pretty unusual. We had
• 35:54
  Speaker 17: people from all sides of politics in this country, all
• 35:58
  Speaker 17: the way from Green's Labor member Tony Zappier and Independence
• 36:02
  Speaker 17: in Monique Ryan, myself and Barnaby Joyce. So it was
• 36:05
  Speaker 17: a very diverse range on the political spectrum. But that
• 36:08
  Speaker 17: was the thing I think that most resonated from what
• 36:11
  Speaker 17: we could tell with the US lawmakers and the various
• 36:15
  Speaker 17: departments over there, that they'd never seen such unity, and
• 36:18
  Speaker 17: we were able to deliver the message that almost universally
• 36:21
  Speaker 17: Australians wanted to see Julian home. Whether you think there
• 36:24
  Speaker 17: was something to answer, or there was, and people all
• 36:26
  Speaker 17: had the view that enough was enough, and we delivered
• 36:29
  Speaker 17: that message. I don't know what impact that ultimately had.
• 36:31
  Speaker 17: I hope it had some, But that's pretty unusual in
• 36:35
  Speaker 17: US politics Senate, and it certainly hit the mark. The
• 36:38
  Speaker 17: other thing I'd say about that is that many of them,
• 36:40
  Speaker 17: having met with various different sides of their political spectrum
• 36:45
  Speaker 17: as well, then went off and worked collaboratively on their
• 36:48
  Speaker 17: Congress and their Senate as well in order to get
• 36:50
  Speaker 17: things off the floor.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: So it was a very very helpful trip. I think, yeah,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: look well done.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good and sensible outcome. But what
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: about the paradox of a bloke who founded wiki and
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: who was now benefited from this quiet diplomacy as his
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: mother described it, and the secret negotiations to deliver this outcome,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: the exactly we're relying on, the on the sort of
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: confidential diplomatic cables and the like that he's shown no
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: respect for.
• 37:17
  Speaker 17: Well, I hadn't thought of that angle, Chris. It's very
• 37:19
  Speaker 17: inventive to come up with that. Look, I don't know,
• 37:21
  Speaker 17: And the other thing we should say is that that
• 37:23
  Speaker 17: we don't know. I mean this is not one hundred
• 37:25
  Speaker 17: percent done yet. We want to be careful not to
• 37:27
  Speaker 17: scare the horses on this. He's off to the to
• 37:30
  Speaker 17: this province of this this strange you know area where
• 37:33
  Speaker 17: there's there's a there's a US jurisdiction in the Marianas Islands,
• 37:37
  Speaker 17: and we will see. It is all a bit clandestine
• 37:39
  Speaker 17: at the moment. But if I was him, I'd want
• 37:41
  Speaker 17: to keep my cards pretty close to my chest at
• 37:43
  Speaker 17: this moment as well. Exactly so he said if exactly
• 37:47
  Speaker 17: would he would if he hit if he hit US soil,
• 37:50
  Speaker 17: he was of the view he would never return.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: So how about that, Julianly understand.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Julian USA is recognizing the value of government, the government secrecy.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: How about that when it suits him. I appreciate your time, Alex.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Sorry we had to rush it. We've got a crowded
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: program tonight. Alexantik there, Senator for South Australia for the
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Liberal Party. Now it's only three more sleeps until that
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: first presidential debate.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I can't wait for it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: We're going to run here live on Sky News from
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: eleven am Friday. Joe Biden's cleared his schedule, locking himself
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: away at camp David, he's engaging in mock debates.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Apparently.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: He's official schedule released by the White House yesterday had
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: one item on it. The president will receive the President's
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: daily brief.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: He often has a day like that.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I asked Kristen Tate whether there's a big air of
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: expectation ahead of the debate.
• 38:37
  Speaker 16: Yes, and this to be could have an enormous impact.
• 38:40
  Speaker 16: Not because it will change voters' minds, Chris, I think
• 38:43
  Speaker 16: that's all kind of beaked in when it comes to
• 38:45
  Speaker 16: the candidates for supporters, but because the Democrat Party big
• 38:49
  Speaker 16: wigs will be watching Biden carefully, and if he's able
• 38:53
  Speaker 16: to stand up there and produce a few sentences without
• 38:56
  Speaker 16: drooling or dropping his hands accidentally, that he will indeed
• 39:01
  Speaker 16: be the Democratic nominee. The bar is solow for Biden here.
• 39:05
  Speaker 16: All he needs to do, literally, all he needs to
• 39:08
  Speaker 16: do is show that he is in command of his faculties.
• 39:11
  Speaker 16: If he stays vertical, he wins. And then that's a
• 39:15
  Speaker 16: little scary for Donald Trump.
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: He needs to prepare because he can't.
• 39:18
  Speaker 16: Take it for granted that Biden is going to be
• 39:21
  Speaker 16: a complete disaster, because again, the bar is just so low.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Biden's just going to stay vertical and conscious
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: for the duration of the debate and he wins. Obviously
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: the risk for him or him freezing up, losing his
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: way making up words as he's often wont to do
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: so having prepped up and fired up and well rested
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: to try and get through it. What's the risk for
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Is there a risk of Donald Trump going
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: too far on any issues? Or has he done that
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: so often that that's.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Not really a risk for him.
• 39:49
  Speaker 16: I don't suspect that's a big risk for him. This
• 39:52
  Speaker 16: is going to be a debate about style, not substance.
• 39:55
  Speaker 16: At this point, everyone kind of knows or both of
• 39:57
  Speaker 16: these guys stand on the issues. Everyone is just going
• 40:00
  Speaker 16: to be watching Biden to see if you can physically
• 40:03
  Speaker 16: get through it. We're at the point now where the
• 40:05
  Speaker 16: majority of Democrat voters think he's too old to be president,
• 40:09
  Speaker 16: so he has a lot to lose here and the
• 40:11
  Speaker 16: law to prove.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the devide host is Seeing Ends Jake Tappa. Now,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: usually as usual you got a sort of a mindstream
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: television host who's anti Trump. But have a look what
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: happened on Seeing In when someone tried to point out
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that Jake Tappa was pretty much presenting a home ground
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: advantage for Joe Biden.
• 40:32
  Speaker 16: Well, first of all, it's it takes someone five minutes
• 40:35
  Speaker 16: to google Jake Tapper Donald Trump to see that Jake Tappers,
• 40:38
  Speaker 16: ma'am can.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Stop for his interview.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: If you're going to president my colleade, I'll filter, ma'am.
• 40:42
  Speaker 18: I'm going to start, and if I'm stating to attack
• 40:45
  Speaker 18: my colleagues, I would like to talk about Joe Biden
• 40:48
  Speaker 18: and Donald Trump, who you work for. Yes, if you
• 40:50
  Speaker 18: are here to weeak on his behalf and I will
• 40:51
  Speaker 18: will to have this conversation.
• 40:54
  Speaker 16: I am stating facts that your colleagues have stated in
• 40:56
  Speaker 16: the past.
• 40:57
  Speaker 18: Now I'm sorry, We're going to come back to David
• 40:59
  Speaker 18: per Caroline, thank you very much for your time.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: You are welcome to come back.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kristin Donald Trump's campaign press sick the shut down.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: You don't let us say that on saying and that
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the guy is Andy Trump.
• 41:13
  Speaker 16: Of course, but this all just helps Donald Trump. Chris
• 41:15
  Speaker 16: Trump supporters can't stand the mainstream media. Most of the
• 41:18
  Speaker 16: debate rules actually help both candidates. Obviously, it benefits Biden
• 41:23
  Speaker 16: to have these biased CNN moderators because they're not going
• 41:26
  Speaker 16: to ask many hard questions.
• 41:28
  Speaker 19: But it helps Trump as well because Trump always does
• 41:31
  Speaker 19: best when he's in the oppositional position. It allows him
• 41:34
  Speaker 19: to not just debate Biden, but the entire bias mainstream
• 41:38
  Speaker 19: media as well.
• 41:40
  Speaker 16: He really thrives when he's in that position. And his
• 41:43
  Speaker 16: supporters they just can't stand these smugs CNN talking heads.
• 41:48
  Speaker 16: So it's actually great for Trump that these are the
• 41:50
  Speaker 16: people in charge of the debate.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'm got to show you some more and
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: have you as some more of these people in the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: media in the US defending Joe Biden excuses for his
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: performances and actually saying he's a victim of agism.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: But he's totally focused.
• 42:06
  Speaker 14: He's very sharp, they say he's sharpened meetings and so on,
• 42:08
  Speaker 14: very lucid.
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: Vote very well.
• 42:10
  Speaker 18: Then for him, Biden is stately and he comes with gravitas.
• 42:13
  Speaker 7: Agism is an issue.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Americans have a rich history of holding people's physical characteristics
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: against them.
• 42:20
  Speaker 11: He's older, that doesn't mean that he is unfit, and
• 42:23
  Speaker 11: there's a lot of agism there.
• 42:25
  Speaker 7: Joe Biden may not be able to speak for himself
• 42:27
  Speaker 7: the way that he eased to they want to think
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: is to take on government if we get out of line,
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: which they're talking on again about and that's him him
• 42:36
  Speaker 7: lying around.
• 42:37
  Speaker 19: I think people should be speaking up for Joe Biden.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: It is just extraordinary to say the making excuses for
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden. But that is the why I want to
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: get into onto another issue that's huge in Australia today, Christian,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: and that is the expected release of Julian Assans. He's
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: been the US has been trying to extradute him on
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: sp and i's related charges. Looks like he's going to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: play guilt, he to a fellow the charge and then
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: be released in Australia. The President was asked about this
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: back in April and said he was looking at a deal. Well,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: that's the way it was interpreted to have a look.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Do you have a response to Australia's requests that eventually
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: and scientists prosecution.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're looking into it. He said.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether Joe body really knew what was
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: being asked there, but it looks like this deal has
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: been done. As I said, big news in Australia. Is
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: it making much getting much attention in the US at
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: the moment, Kristen.
• 43:32
  Speaker 16: Yes, yes, of course this is big news here as well.
• 43:34
  Speaker 16: I remember when Assane was first convicted of espionage, he
• 43:38
  Speaker 16: was considered a national Parada. Everyone hated him O. There
• 43:42
  Speaker 16: were a few eccentric libertarians myself included, and thought he
• 43:45
  Speaker 16: was unfairly punished.
• 43:47
  Speaker 19: But Chris' opinions have evolved over the.
• 43:49
  Speaker 16: Last few years. In particular, COVID completely revealed our government
• 43:54
  Speaker 16: to be corrupt to its core.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: And you know, these people.
• 43:57
  Speaker 16: In the government, they blatantly lie to their own citizens,
• 44:00
  Speaker 16: and that's kind of what a song was trying to
• 44:02
  Speaker 16: tell us.
• 44:03
  Speaker 20: So there is no more national appetite to keep.
• 44:05
  Speaker 16: Him in prison. Trump actually a few months ago said
• 44:08
  Speaker 16: that he would strongly consider a part and if he
• 44:12
  Speaker 16: were oblected for a second term. So I think, you know,
• 44:14
  Speaker 16: Biden was just kind.
• 44:15
  Speaker 19: Of trying to beat Trump to the punch here.
• 44:17
  Speaker 16: But politically this is really a nothing burger because most
• 44:20
  Speaker 16: Americans at this point agree that Assange should be released.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is happening, and I think there's a
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: bit of a consensus on this side of the argument
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: as well, right across Australia. Thanks for joining us, Christin
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: will to speak to you next week on the other
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: side of the great debate.
• 44:35
  Speaker 16: Thank you very much, Chris. I'm looking forward to it.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just for clarity there. Of course, Julian Nosinge has
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: not been convicted by the US. They were trying to
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: extradite him and we expect him to plead guilty to
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: a felony in the Northern Marianas Islands tomorrow morning. Now
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: to some breaking news from my Sky News colleague Caroline Marcus.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: She tells us that new South Wales Director of Public
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Prosecutions will not proceed with a fourth against former NRL
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: star Jared han Now, as you know, Jane Hayne walked
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: free from prison earlier this month after his rape convictions
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: were overturned on appeal. This case has been through three
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: trials already, he's out on appeal. The DPP will not
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: be proceeding with a fourth trial, so Jared Haynes will
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: remain free.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: That breaking news courtesy of Caroline Marcus.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Got to get to a break. On the other side,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: we're going to catch up with Tim Blair. I'm going
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: to have more on that crime against Dana Ross and
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: coal exports and also nuclear safety concerns.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: What about batteries.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Let's go to our mate Tim Blair in the wonderful
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Wimmera district of Western Victoria.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Good to catch up with you again, Tim.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: You probably were too busy writing for tomorrow to see
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: the top of this show. But I shared with our
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: viewers an appalling singing performance by anti coal protesters at
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Newcastle today. I promised them I'd show you. Promise viewers,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I'd show the rest of the song so you can
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: enjoy this abomination what they've done to Diana Ross and
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: the Supremes on the top of a cold train.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: Never look one.
• 46:17
  Speaker 8: Stop in the name of life before we break, get
• 46:23
  Speaker 8: a heart start up in the name of life. It's
• 46:27
  Speaker 8: only our last chance.
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: Before it is old.
• 46:32
  Speaker 8: This Crammy is killing us, Tossyola, this is Cole is
• 46:37
  Speaker 8: killing us.
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: Stop who.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Lord, Timm.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: It's just proof that these protesters are just people looking
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: for something to do, looking for love somewhere.
• 46:49
  Speaker 21: Could they look for that somewhere where there isn't a
• 46:51
  Speaker 21: camera all sound equipment.
• 46:53
  Speaker 20: That would be nice of them. It's I mean looking
• 46:57
  Speaker 20: at that.
• 46:58
  Speaker 21: Any any proper magistrate, every proper legal official in the
• 47:02
  Speaker 21: state should be adding to whatever early jail to it,
• 47:06
  Speaker 21: maybe six or twelve months just for the crime of
• 47:10
  Speaker 21: invading and stopping the trains. Call you be adding it
• 47:13
  Speaker 21: at least four years for the singing, and at least
• 47:16
  Speaker 21: another two for that incredibly out of time dancing.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: That's it's just great.
• 47:22
  Speaker 20: It's a crime against you. It's a war crime, is
• 47:24
  Speaker 20: what it is.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: It's a climate war crime.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: We've got to get the scarves off them, identify them
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: and name them and shame them around the country.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Now you've written a lot.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: And we'll get to that in the minute about people
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: whipping up fear campaigns about nuclear which happens to be
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: one of the safest forms of.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: Energy on the planet.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: But we've talked a lot on this program about lithium
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: myron batteries and the fires I've started around Australia. There
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: have been fatalities as a result of these fires in Australia.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: You've drawn attention to this fire in South Korea overnight
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: at a battery manufacturing plant.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Two people killed.
• 48:02
  Speaker 21: Now that's twenty two people, more people, more people who've
• 48:06
  Speaker 21: died than in all nuclear incidents since Chernobyl. So people
• 48:11
  Speaker 21: have got to factor this in when they're talking about
• 48:13
  Speaker 21: relative risk.
• 48:15
  Speaker 20: And we have a.
• 48:15
  Speaker 21: Government in Australia. The alban Easy government very much wants
• 48:19
  Speaker 21: to invest in lithium ion battery construction technology. They want
• 48:22
  Speaker 21: to build those batteries here. It would show at least
• 48:26
  Speaker 21: as a kind of an even handed view on part
• 48:28
  Speaker 21: of the broader media if people asked, people like Ed
• 48:32
  Speaker 21: Husick and al Ethny Albanezi, where are these battery manufacturing
• 48:36
  Speaker 21: plants going to be put? Where are the plants, the
• 48:38
  Speaker 21: same type of plants that killed twenty two people in
• 48:40
  Speaker 21: South Korea, a very safe, very well regulated country.
• 48:43
  Speaker 20: Where are they going to be put? Do we want
• 48:44
  Speaker 20: those in our backyards?
• 48:45
  Speaker 21: Do we want this dangerous new technology to be spreading
• 48:48
  Speaker 21: throughout Australia.
• 48:49
  Speaker 20: These are serious questions.
• 48:50
  Speaker 21: If you're going to ask questions of nuclear technology, which
• 48:52
  Speaker 21: doesn't have any death since Chernobyl, we've got to ask
• 48:55
  Speaker 21: them much more about batteries.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no deaths in over forty years. That is just
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: a simple fact. And it is true that these.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: Battery fires are killing people, not just in Australia but
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: around the world. That's a horrific, horrific fire and death
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: toll in South Korea right up against the time clock.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Here, Tim, thanks for joining us.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, but go to Tim's blog or his
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: column there in the Daily Telegraph, where he's written about
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: some of the theo mungery against nuclear He's talked about
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: the various types of fearmongers when it comes to the
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: anti nuclear debate, and as usual with Tim, he.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Makes a telling point with plenty of laughs along the way.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me. I'll be back at five o'clock tomorrow.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: He's Peter Quidlin