Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to his wonderful co-host Si Hart about his choice of The Aztecs (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to his wonderful co-host Si Hart about his choice of The Aztecs (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Welcome back to Camp super blunt
• 0:41
  penknife and indigestion. The Doctor Who come and free
• 0:45
  podcast. Sigh yes.
• 0:49
  Why do I have indigestion? Because we've just been out for
• 0:53
  her. Really, really big Toby.
• 0:56
  Carberry lunch class, putting plot or definitely pudding.
• 1:00
  Yeah use this Christ we're together again.
• 1:03
  Hello everyone. We're here to do a commentary
• 1:05
  and but we're not going to tell you the story.
• 1:07
  We're basically going to Laden you with glue.
• 1:10
  Okay, so my clue number one is Simon.
• 1:14
  Heart. Recently has been posing as a
• 1:15
  deputy not Simon. What's your clue number?
• 1:20
  Two, sacrifices are back in fashion, and I've got a list for
• 1:27
  you if you'd care to go and stand in the home.
• 1:30
  Clue number three, sigh. Yeah, can I offer you some
• 1:36
  cocoa? Oh my goodness.
• 2:00
  I think this is my favorite harm story.
• 2:03
  Oh I was. Yeah I think this is the one.
• 2:08
  Okay. Lena because you got okay.
• 2:14
  So you've got the original crew who are all fabulous but
• 2:18
  Caroline Ford is out for two weeks so everyone gets so Ian
• 2:24
  and Barbara get a chance to shine.
• 2:26
  I'm just going to put it like that until you've got Jaclyn
• 2:29
  Hill at the absolute peak of Apex.
• 2:32
  Yeah. Well Barbara nurse Apprentice
• 2:35
  this is the that's the official term okay?
• 2:38
  Ian is It's just great and and Hartnell is on fire.
• 2:44
  I feel like this is the point where his characterization
• 2:46
  ourselves isn't. He knows exactly what he's
• 2:48
  doing. Now, he's had his two weeks off
• 2:50
  in Mariners he has, and that's great.
• 2:53
  He is coming back, firing on all cylinders, and he has So, some
• 3:02
  phenomenal things in this story, particularly him and Jaclyn Hill
• 3:06
  and him and Margo Vanderburgh as well.
• 3:08
  They've set up that Sparky relationship between him and
• 3:11
  Barbara Howe. Yeah, there's a scene in edge of
• 3:13
  Destruction. Yes, that's very far when she
• 3:16
  calls him out. And this time, he gets to call
• 3:18
  her answer. It was, it accuse us.
• 3:21
  You should get down on your hands and knees and thanked us.
• 3:24
  Hmm, Grassroots. The last thing on your mind or
• 3:27
  any kind of common sense I think.
• 3:30
  The four C's. See someone, this is a four-part
• 3:33
  story which we haven't had since the first story and the
• 3:36
  storytelling is incredibly tight.
• 3:39
  Yeah unusually. So, yeah, it's, it's plotted to
• 3:43
  absolute perfection. Everything follows on in a
• 3:45
  natural way and the situation gets worse and worse, and worse
• 3:49
  until the resolution. And that that's great.
• 3:52
  I mean, you wouldn't say the sensor is, was plotted in a
• 3:55
  particularly Tire way, which know it's language, keys of
• 3:58
  marinus, even though it's like He's up to it but it's get keys
• 4:02
  of marinus is plot the week. Yeah.
• 4:04
  And then we move on to the next one.
• 4:06
  This is not strap this resistance.
• 4:07
  Yeah, it's absurd. And that you say it's got a
• 4:10
  dramatic moment. Yeah.
• 4:11
  So the last episode like is yeah, the storms come in the
• 4:16
  fights on between he and the next uh yeah it's all building
• 4:19
  up to the climax and do they actually going to get out is
• 4:22
  Bob, we're going to get away that all of this and there's a
• 4:24
  bit cliche, isn't it? Serious?
• 4:26
  One of being cut off from the Tardis they do that.
• 4:29
  Pretty much everything. Tori.
• 4:32
  And how the hell am I going to get out of it?
• 4:33
  But for once, this is a situation of like deadly Peril.
• 4:37
  Yeah. Well, well what we've already
• 4:41
  had lots to talk about and we haven't even stole a lassie and
• 4:43
  that commentary then? Yep.
• 4:44
  Thank you for listening to the Aztecs common for the briefest
• 4:49
  hands and see what we find. Five, four, three, two one.
• 5:04
  Let's go. Ouch.
• 5:06
  Oh, this is your favorite title sequences in it.
• 5:08
  I have been paying attention. It is it is.
• 5:11
  And it is just because it is so bloody weird.
• 5:15
  It's simple and really effective, isn't it?
• 5:18
  Can you see what's on the corner in trouble?
• 5:20
  A deep rich box? That's what did you do?
• 5:23
  That, that's only a few seconds. The model towels leaving
• 5:28
  Mariners. Off we go.
• 5:31
  You know, Ser achievement or show that so Faith story.
• 5:33
  He's still, there are three per week so simple of Evil by
• 5:42
  Jean-Luc erotic, you know, the score on this is in.
• 5:45
  Yeah, this is really beautiful score, isn't it?
• 5:55
  Yeah. 24. The subsonic.
• 6:01
  Give me a second. Now, I remember when I saw this
• 6:05
  first on that, that I saw their first time.
• 6:10
  I encountered this story was, during the BSB Doctor Who We
• 6:15
  Came, which was incredible. But this one was on late at
• 6:20
  night, I think, on the Sunday or the Saturday and I wasn't
• 6:24
  staying up to watch it. And I was so tired of Doctor Who
• 6:29
  after that intense weekend, that it took me several months.
• 6:33
  Actually get around to building a story that I've recorded that
• 6:36
  I hadn't seen and I thought well it's the Aztecs is a historical
• 6:39
  event to be boring. And I watched it and just
• 6:43
  thought, oh my God, this is so good.
• 6:47
  I wasn't expecting anything of this.
• 6:49
  This high-quality, I'm in that BSB weekend, iced.
• 6:53
  I could still see an advert in my mind that starts with quickly
• 6:58
  curly. You know, is how they came out
• 7:07
  there, then an immediate you're being educated.
• 7:08
  Yeah, absolutely. It's very Newberry.
• 7:18
  Yeah. Like, and he's done, you done
• 7:21
  his historical research. Very good and bought.
• 7:26
  A lot of sense of smell. It's Not Unusual at Barbara and
• 7:28
  Susan, just go off, wandering on their own.
• 7:30
  Yes, either the doctor but of course that needs to happen in
• 7:33
  order for Barbara to be taken away, of course.
• 7:38
  This guy here. What is the actor's name is
• 7:41
  Keith Pilots. I buy all of those off lat.
• 7:45
  I remember he was like an old-school actor and he was new
• 7:51
  to TV. Yeah.
• 7:52
  And he was very nervous. Can't really tell?
• 7:55
  No nothing. It's a lovely dignified
• 7:58
  performance. He gives it exactly what the
• 8:00
  character needs. Where will it end your talking
• 8:03
  style? But I remember when I first saw
• 8:06
  this, right? I was perfectly convinced, this
• 8:09
  was as sophisticated as TV got. Now, I don't think that still
• 8:14
  But I do think it is incredibly since capias work life.
• 8:17
  It isn't sophisticated storytelling and I beg for the
• 8:20
  60s. It's yeah, it's very good.
• 8:28
  So good. Well, they all are.
• 8:32
  I've been this original crew. Oh, so here's what happens.
• 8:36
  Catchphrases that, look at that extraordinary City, he does that
• 8:39
  lots of times. Now this is you see this here,
• 8:42
  this backdrop, right now, I think is incredibly effective,
• 8:44
  don't get me wrong. I think as a perspective shot
• 8:47
  that is very good and if you kind of like, go with your
• 8:50
  imagination. Yeah, you're in Mexico.
• 8:52
  Yeah, this is the unfortunate part of cleaning up these doc.
• 8:56
  Yeah, so you can see the folds in it, the old BHS, he couldn't
• 9:02
  see it. So, and you know what the year
• 9:05
  which story is the worst for that.
• 9:06
  For clear mind rather about the site of the cyclic thingy.
• 9:10
  Yeah, because that look like, all right, the first version on
• 9:15
  VHS, look like that when I'm gone forever and you see it?
• 9:19
  Yeah. But now you could just see the
• 9:20
  edge. Yeah, so sad.
• 9:23
  So sometimes she television cleaning it up but doesn't pay
• 9:29
  any favors exposes, its floors. Yeah.
• 9:33
  But I say I think the first time to screw is is a very strong set
• 9:38
  of actors and Cara landfill. It's possibly potentially the
• 9:49
  strongest. I mean, when it was way more, no
• 9:51
  Bryan joins. Yeah, I think that might be the
• 9:53
  strongest. I'm not one of them.
• 9:56
  Yeah, and I don't bet. Caroline Forbes is not bad.
• 9:58
  I think it's the character she's saddled with that is is bad.
• 10:02
  And she can only do what is on the page.
• 10:04
  There's always moments, like, I really like her moments with
• 10:07
  Pinchot in Marco Polo. I like the moment for their lead
• 10:10
  into a telepathy. And yes, that's she's really
• 10:12
  good at the sensor. I'd so as well.
• 10:15
  Who's the director of Reign of Terror Hinrich?
• 10:17
  What? Yeah, Heinrich Kirsch.
• 10:19
  I Rakesh. Why is she always so Maudlin?
• 10:22
  She's always the model. Going to speed up.
• 10:33
  That's a shame because if they lent into that exotic
• 10:36
  characterization that she got in the onion on over each other.
• 10:39
  Yeah. Which is doing the inkblot.
• 10:41
  Yeah. When she's really great, really,
• 10:44
  we had and that dancing to the music that kind of sexy way.
• 10:49
  Oh my God. So we've got our character
• 10:53
  actor, John ringerman, as I always call him after Jay and
• 10:55
  T's introduction to this story of the bsp weekend.
• 11:00
  We're always referred to him as carrots.
• 11:02
  Actor. John ring.
• 11:03
  Mm it is unbelievable. That that is the same fella from
• 11:07
  colony in space. Yes.
• 11:08
  And the same fellow. Who was the Headmaster in woof?
• 11:12
  Hey, if you ever saw wolf on children's ITV for heard, it was
• 11:16
  about a boy who turned into a dog.
• 11:18
  Of course it was. Yeah.
• 11:19
  Okay, there we go. No, no.
• 11:21
  Well what does it mean? Anyway, welcome to the wolf
• 11:34
  podcast where I explain the principle.
• 11:37
  Gosh, she acting of the dog is incredible.
• 11:39
  You know. So, okay.
• 11:45
  So I've got a question to ask you about how women are
• 11:51
  characterized in the 60s? Yes.
• 11:54
  And in particular Barbara because I think she can be
• 11:58
  portrayed as a victim, but very often.
• 12:03
  She strikes out on the road. She's very competent.
• 12:06
  She's extremely intelligent. Like, this is fairly mature
• 12:10
  characterization for a woman. Yes.
• 12:13
  In this, in this time, the early 60s, absolutely, for sure.
• 12:18
  She is given a lot of agency and a lot of chance to carry
• 12:24
  storylines. So we've got this one where she
• 12:27
  is the real Focus donk invasion of Earth where she's got the
• 12:30
  whole clot strand with Jenny where she is.
• 12:34
  She is there in the van smashing through Daleks and when they're
• 12:37
  running across with his wheelchair.
• 12:39
  Yeah. And she's yeah.
• 12:40
  She's, she's on that. And she is seizing all of that.
• 12:44
  And then you've got her viciously, gunning down, Sandy
• 12:50
  wish, got that gun in the chase will pick them up, one by one.
• 12:55
  She's on the wrong side of her and yet she is really homely as
• 12:59
  well. And in between story, she's
• 13:01
  making Vicky address, right? She's spring cleaning, since
• 13:04
  father, I give this place a good spring cleaning.
• 13:08
  What's that awful noise. That's no way to talk about my
• 13:10
  singing, but it feels like she's a rounded person.
• 13:16
  She's a person, you would know. And if she was your history
• 13:18
  teacher at school, you'd be learning what you'd be paying.
• 13:22
  Attentions whatever, she was saying.
• 13:24
  Well, here's here's another question.
• 13:25
  Then when do you think we get a female character as well?
• 13:31
  Defined and strongly characterized as Barbara again.
• 13:37
  I would say the next one who comes along like that who's up
• 13:42
  there like that is Liz. I'm going to be even Bolder than
• 13:46
  yeah. Okay because I think Liz is a
• 13:49
  strong character. We don't really know much about
• 13:52
  the night. That wasn't, that's true.
• 13:54
  I'm going to say ace. Wow.
• 13:57
  Okay. That's a lot of the beginning
• 13:59
  and the end of the classic series.
• 14:01
  Well, thank you everyone. Who preached.
• 14:07
  I mean, I think there are better companions entry I think Sarah
• 14:09
  Jane is a better companion than Barbara just just and that's
• 14:14
  just because it's live, but it's Elizabeth sladen, isn't it?
• 14:16
  But the characterization of Sarah Jane Smith is all over
• 14:20
  this sketching and I'd well it's just it's Elizabeth sladen,
• 14:25
  bringing the genius of her talent to the.
• 14:28
  This is a synthesis of an incredibly well-written
• 14:32
  character and a brilliant performance.
• 14:35
  Yes, you know. I'm heart was being, really
• 14:38
  cute. Look, hmm.
• 14:40
  That's not going to last for long.
• 14:43
  Well, I thought you saying earlier, it shows both sides
• 14:45
  changed his character because he gets to be kind of romantic and
• 14:48
  cute in the garden to maker and vicious the Bob.
• 14:52
  Yeah, and this was something that was such a surprise to me,
• 14:57
  seeing Hartnell in action because coming to him.
• 15:02
  So, I saw a lot of heart and with my teams So I've grown up
• 15:07
  been going with because I've seen him in a few child.
• 15:10
  When they would preach that to the five phases of Doctor Who,
• 15:13
  and all the, then after that, all the sort of non-fiction
• 15:18
  books at that time and say, oh, he was crotchety was a grumpy
• 15:21
  old things and rubbish. It's like people have seen the
• 15:26
  first story and not seen anything else because I was
• 15:30
  shocked to find out how giggly he was and how cuddle and how
• 15:34
  he's always giving everyone a couple.
• 15:36
  Huddle and funny. I swear he's on drugs
• 16:03
  and it's such a great performances.
• 16:06
  So he's such a Talon. He think he was the question.
• 16:11
  Do you think he was well represented in the five?
• 16:14
  Doctors and twice Upon a Time? No neither.
• 16:19
  Oh not again. I've been told to stay focused
• 16:25
  again on watch Tennis of the doctor and I don't think Richard
• 16:28
  handle gave it all that warmth, but he was put in a really it's
• 16:34
  a really difficult situation. Ation coming into play.
• 16:37
  A character that was loved with someone who had worked with him,
• 16:43
  and have to do that, and have to be this character and he very
• 16:47
  consciously didn't watch Hartnell story so that he would
• 16:53
  just bring himself to the park was written and took it from
• 16:57
  there and spoke to Carol Ann Ford.
• 16:59
  So he doesn't whom I always find anything.
• 17:01
  Yeah, there's some line readings as well where he's quite
• 17:03
  aggressive. We're hot.
• 17:05
  There's one way guys. Well, well well two of them made
• 17:08
  it. I wonder what happened to you
• 17:10
  about. Where is Hannah would be like,
• 17:28
  remembering how he was there and stop dilly-dallying and Crosses
• 17:32
  where he there's this little flashes of its of that.
• 17:35
  Part of his Character, but not so much of the other stuff
• 17:38
  because he's literally reading the lines off the cue cards.
• 17:40
  And dare I even mentioned twice Upon a Time.
• 17:42
  Well, they get that completely and utterly wrong in this
• 17:45
  comedy. Sex is yes, which is wrong on
• 17:49
  both counts. Yeah, because almost doctors
• 17:52
  actually, I don't think he's ever sexy know.
• 17:56
  I'm a product of a different time as well.
• 18:06
  He used to give me a smack around the other one time he hit
• 18:09
  me with a wooden spoon, it would explain a lot.
• 18:13
  So yeah that was just a complete misstep and it's just taking one
• 18:20
  line out of context and drawing the whole character from that.
• 18:24
  And actually that's not what hot and that's unusual because
• 18:27
  moffatt's a fan. Yes.
• 18:30
  Oh, so he shallow better shouldn't lie but he did feature
• 18:34
  also meticulous free. Yes, I remember that I'm not
• 18:37
  sure. David Bradley as a brilliant
• 18:40
  actor as he was, he's much better at playing William
• 18:43
  Hartnell, then he is playing the first doctor.
• 18:47
  Are you mean isn't your face and tell ya, this line readings all
• 18:52
  over the place. I just brought from the start
• 19:07
  but he's drawing up in the color on bombs coming.
• 19:09
  And why is that was so well. Yeah, judged was a point out
• 19:15
  that Temple behind which genuinely looks like a bloody
• 19:18
  Temple. It's really 3D drawing.
• 19:23
  But it just works here. This story has been executed
• 19:29
  with some skill, yes. Some might consider a, we're in
• 19:32
  a tiny Studio at line growth perspective, shots really make
• 19:39
  it feel like it's a big place. I'll take you up these fusty old
• 19:43
  people that are hanging around. Well, they're just there for
• 19:45
  them. This is just between him and
• 20:02
  Comerica, I'll tell you what, I'm surprised Riverstone.
• 20:05
  Didn't turn up in issue that Muffy didn't retroactively
• 20:09
  rewrites and Omega is a version of river song but goodness, Very
• 20:21
  prettily pits my dear. Okay.
• 20:32
  Yay. Or this point that's fine.
• 20:38
  We know we know what we're all about the doctor at this point.
• 20:42
  Well, we ain't going to see them.
• 20:43
  Snogging know, we're nice. Ya gonna be trying to bait him.
• 20:47
  Yeah, so she's 16 the ports of that.
• 20:52
  Cut my hair, get on me, but we do not deceive need to see the
• 21:00
  firm. The first Doctor Who can make in
• 21:01
  a while, but it's just really, it's just a lovely touching
• 21:05
  relationship and there's a real warmth.
• 21:09
  I think they're between the two, the two actors that make it just
• 21:13
  it's just nice. She's stunning as well.
• 21:16
  Yeah she is and but it's it's true.
• 21:19
  Our choice was canceled, Remus it is it's the same answer is
• 21:23
  yes that line and you know exactly the Home Keeper.
• 21:44
  I've done all her research to for the costuming as well to
• 21:48
  make sure it's all Daphne dare that's a great idea.
• 21:51
  This isn't it? She sister of Dandy hope.
• 21:54
  So see this is a fun thing. Yes I'm rather mad about being
• 21:59
  guarded. We don't offer to see Susan
• 22:12
  relaxed like that which is quite versus oh she's not at the
• 22:16
  Forefront of his species, very open area.
• 22:22
  But that's misremembered as well because in the five doctors
• 22:26
  there's quite a few bits in that where she's just useless.
• 22:29
  Yes. And then in like, donations in
• 22:31
  time which just feel as my doctor the original, you know,
• 22:38
  it's it's a poorly remembered Susan.
• 22:41
  Yes. Oh my word.
• 22:45
  Here we go. Yeah, this is electric.
• 22:47
  Isn't it? That this is the Crux of this
• 22:49
  story is? Yes, this is the central
• 22:50
  argument. Must not rewrite history.
• 22:53
  Yes, not one line. But because it's Barbara's,
• 23:02
  passion is the Aztecs and their civilization.
• 23:08
  It's that that feeling of if it was if you were somewhere where
• 23:13
  it was something that you were really into and you'd be taken
• 23:16
  back in time to deal with that. And, you know, there was a huge
• 23:18
  tragedy coming. You do exactly what Barbara is
• 23:22
  doing and try and keep it going. It's a completely different type
• 23:26
  of story. But, like both, when she goes
• 23:30
  back to her father's death involved.
• 23:31
  Yeah. You know, like it's the same
• 23:34
  mistake, isn't it? Yeah, exactly.
• 23:38
  Awesomeness, I get here. Like the the idea that he can
• 23:46
  like Drive. Yes show and get his lines out.
• 23:50
  He is so good. Yeah, I know, believe me I know.
• 23:54
  And that is really interesting. Look at his face and you can,
• 23:59
  you could read on him that he's had that same debate and had to
• 24:03
  deal with that if they issue. And he went, well exactly,
• 24:08
  what's he done, where he's tried to change his.
• 24:11
  Very where he's tried to change things from how they were.
• 24:14
  He was there at the eve of the second world war or, or
• 24:19
  something happening on the planet queenís or a, in fact,
• 24:23
  it's exactly the same argument in, Father Pompey, isn't it is?
• 24:26
  Yeah, it comes back. Yeah.
• 24:30
  Except Barbara doesn't go all it.
• 24:32
  Watch it. Thanks man.
• 24:33
  I'm doing. Yeah.
• 24:36
  And and so speed chess there is action on screen.
• 24:44
  So yeah, it's But with grips now we are but I think that's that's
• 24:55
  an important thing to say because when I first watched
• 24:57
  this on my I would held my breath.
• 24:59
  Yeah, this sequence Exactly. And this is again, where Susan
• 25:05
  real reaction is really useful because we're not going to see
• 25:08
  the sacrifice but her reaction to it tells you everything you
• 25:12
  need to know about what's going on.
• 25:14
  Yeah. I was just the tension again of
• 25:20
  is Barbara going to go through with this or not if she's going
• 25:24
  to do know why the docs? Yeah.
• 25:27
  Yeah, can she do it? Oh yeah, she's her own woman.
• 25:30
  It's so clever that use of sound effects does.
• 25:34
  Yes. Just suggest that our party and
• 25:36
  there's a crowd beneath them watching the salt block,
• 25:39
  addressing that map of wasn't quite another thing.
• 25:42
  Again, this is the problem when you've only got a tiny A tiny
• 25:46
  studio and you can't just things like on a level and film up.
• 25:50
  Don't get the sense of it though that they're in a tiny Studio.
• 25:52
  I know it was because we've been in this area we've been outside
• 25:56
  in the courtyard Garden, the garden, you know, it feels like
• 25:59
  of the Tomb as well as the tomb. I think they have to erect.
• 26:03
  The Tardis is no. So that that takes up a lot of
• 26:07
  space. When they have to do that the
• 26:09
  camera bumped into stone there. Never mind, they could only cut
• 26:13
  for exact and it's not a big bump.
• 26:30
  Yeah, because as soon as she's on the screen, he's the sent
• 26:33
  out. That's not all.
• 26:38
  That's still yeah, that's yeah. That's Thank you, it's clearly
• 26:44
  in a studio, but I just feel like there's a sense of space
• 26:49
  and exciting. Yeah.
• 26:52
  Stop for each other and it's something that 60s who is
• 26:54
  surprisingly good at which I was some of 80s.
• 26:59
  Who. Yeah.
• 27:00
  Really some of 70s who's not great at that, I've only needs a
• 27:05
  horse but I'm gonna have to think of one.
• 27:06
  Yeah. Okay.
• 27:09
  So poorly realized visible enemy has some makers is particularly
• 27:19
  cheap. In the 80s we obviously can't
• 27:23
  fail. Yeah Carvel maybe like even Loco
• 27:28
  I don't think comes over terribly.
• 27:30
  Well it's some of the sets in mysterious planet are less than
• 27:33
  convincing. Take her to our two-week holiday
• 27:41
  at her film. Allocation see this sister she
• 27:44
  come back with a lovely time. It's not as bad as Barbara and
• 27:47
  the sensor right? She comes up.
• 27:49
  She's been up on the spaceship for to we finding herself in oh
• 27:53
  my God, I love this when they talk directly to camera now I
• 27:58
  was holding that look then well that's another 60s fail.
• 28:02
  Just like can you think of another Cliffhanger where a
• 28:08
  villain has spoken directly to camera?
• 28:10
  I can think of two. Yes, go on.
• 28:13
  You've got the growth vindicate that wasn't okay.
• 28:35
  I'm thinking of 00 season. 20 Pirates.
• 28:40
  Oh, yeah. Don't let the baron of course.
• 28:45
  Oh, doctor you're such a fool fotolia.
• 28:48
  Faith into ephemeral, but the best one of all is late. 80s,
• 28:53
  season 24. Oh, that's nice after 3,000
• 28:59
  years. The Drago fire shall be mine.
• 29:05
  And cut.