Latest / Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk / Guest Eunice Guier Prison Ministry Leader Bible Teacher and Advocate for the Incarcerated

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Guest Eunice Guier Prison Ministry Leader Bible Teacher and Advocate for the Incarcerated · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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dot US. Hello and welcome to Into the
2:55
Weeds podcast here on Military Broadcast Radio.
2:58
I'm Amber and tonight is a recorded episode.
3:01
Alora is at work right now, so it's just me today.
3:05
And since I ate up some of our time doing some administrative
3:10
stuff for MBR, we're going to get right into it.
3:14
And we are going to interview a woman that I actually got in
3:18
contact with through my cousin who is incarcerated in
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Chillicothe. Her name is Eunice Squire and
3:26
she is from Rise Up Ministries, Rise Up Prison Ministry, and
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without further ado, we're going to bring her up.
3:35
The interview of the week is brought to you by Jersey Mike's,
3:39
a sub above. Hello, Eunice, and welcome.
3:46
Thank you, Amber. Thank you for being here, and
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thank you so much for what you do at Chillicothe and other
3:53
prisons around our state. I am.
3:57
I hear really great things about you from my cousin Audra.
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I call her Shelly. So if I call her Shelly, that's
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who that is. OK, awesome.
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So. Yeah.
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So can you just kind of tell us about who you are and what Rise
4:14
Up is? Yeah.
4:16
So my last name is Geyer actually.
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Geyer, I'm sorry. I get guyer a lot but so rise up
4:24
prison ministry was something that births out of COVID.
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Actually my ministry partner, his name is Johnny Allen and he
4:35
and I were both in a part of a different ministry that did
4:39
prison prior to COVID. I had actually joined it in 2018
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and then when 2020 hit and the world stopped, the prisons shut
4:51
down for a period of time. And the other there was a
4:54
married couple, she did music, her husband did some preaching
4:58
and they stepped away to do something different after the
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things opened back up again. So that's when we we were, we
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changed our name to Rise up Prison Ministry and away we
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went. And what happened during COVID,
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pre COVID, we were in, you know, really on a regular basis about
5:21
four prisons, two that were weekly and a couple that were
5:28
bimonthly. And, but during COVID, a lot of
5:33
volunteers stepped away. A lot of people are older
5:36
because you typically depending, but a lot of them were retired
5:40
people and they just were concerned about COVID and this
5:43
close environment and whatnot. So we started getting calls from
5:47
all around the state. And at one time we were doing 13
5:50
different institutions, 3 weekly, 4 weekly.
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And it that was a lot. We were driving up to Maryville,
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MO weekly, Maryville and Saint Joe every Tuesday.
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And then we eventually gave that one up a few years ago when we
6:12
actually had the chance to go into Chillicothe, just because
6:15
everything we do are men's prisons except for Chillicothe.
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And I was really interested in getting in and getting to spend
6:21
some time with the ladies, so. Hey, I didn't realize that.
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So what sparked you to actually want to get into prison
6:28
ministry? I mean, not every.
6:31
That's not everybody's cup of tea.
6:33
Not everybody's cup of tea and not anything I would have ever
6:36
imagined. 2017, I went through a major life change, going through
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a divorce and not one that I was wanting.
6:47
My daughter had just graduated from high school, my son was
6:51
already in college. And so I found myself kind of at
6:55
that crossroads. I mean, I, when I started having
6:58
children, I gave up my career and stayed home, homeschooled my
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kids for eight years, 8-9 years, and then was the mom, you know,
7:07
the soccer mom, driving and track mom and all that stuff.
7:10
And so anyhow, I had this group that my partner, my ministry
7:18
partner, Johnny was part of, They came into my church and did
7:21
a presentation on prison ministry.
7:24
And Johnny himself spent 14 1/2 years in and out of prison,
7:29
1414, 1/2 years in prison. And that was 5 different trips
7:33
in and out. And I just thought it was
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incredible. He got saved.
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He found the Lord in prison, in a maximum security prison, and
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his life was completely changed. And I just thought, wow.
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And I'd started supporting them financially at that point.
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And that was 2017, early 2018, spring of 2018, they invited me
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to come in on a Friday night to Algoa Correctional in Jeff City
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to see kind of what it's all about.
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And I went the one time and I left there just knowing that the
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Lord was calling me to that I was making 2017 18.
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I made three trips to India. And you know how it is when your
8:17
life is kind of flipped upside down and you start thinking, all
8:19
right, what now? And at one point I thought I
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was, you know, maybe I'm going to India to be the next Mother
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Teresa or something and in one church prison.
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And it just captured my heart. And I was said, how do I come
8:34
back and do this? And I went through all the
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paperwork and it was just such a God thing because my approval
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came through in a matter of a couple of months, which is rare.
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By the end of 2018, I was granted statewide access to all
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institutions, which typically never happens until you've been
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there for a year. So it's just everything was just
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set up by the Lord, is what it felt like to me.
9:02
Yeah. So.
9:04
OK, So what was your first experience walking into a prison
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like? The first experience when I went
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through what they call the airlock where you're you've gone
9:15
through your security and then you're stepping out into the
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actual institution when those doors shut behind you.
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It is a little bit of A and you see razor wire and all this.
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That was a low level prison. I'll be very honest, when I
9:31
started just thinking about prisons, my attitude was more
9:38
than likely one that was well, if you've done the crime, do the
9:41
time and don't whine. Mine too.
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And then as I started going in and started visiting with
9:49
people, I mean, you're nervous the first time going in 'cause
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you don't know what to expect. And here I came into this Chapel
9:58
of 100 men and they just sit with bated breath on the edge of
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their seats, leaning forward, listening to every word that you
10:08
say. And it was just the most
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welcoming. I tell people all the time when
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they come for a first time, this is the best audience you will
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ever speak to. Active audience.
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Yeah. I mean, they are captive and
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they're jokes about that. Yeah, I know periodically that
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we use ourselves, but they are just so engaged.
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Beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to see
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'cause you can walk in any church and you're going to have
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people doodling on their phones, having side conversations and
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hear literally if there's two guys talking, it's very rare
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because they are locked in and engaged and just so grateful
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that you're there. So, and you know, the, the
10:58
ladies prison is a little bit more challenging cause women, we
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like to talk, like to visit, we like to gossip and catch up on
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things. So, but we don't have to
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typically patrol that because the, the guards that are working
11:13
the hallway typically are watching through a window just
11:16
to make sure there's none of that going on.
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And they'll pull people out if it, if they're being disruptive.
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But really it's, it's a pleasure to walk in to every prison every
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time and, and interesting to feel like you've got friends,
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you know, like they're friends. They've become friends and
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people that I care about and people that I pray about, pray
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for. And so yeah, it's, it's been a
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beautiful thing. Yeah, I know Shelly greatly
11:46
values your trips and getting to talk to you, so she's been
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telling me about you for a long time.
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So, OK, that's cool. Well, I tell you what, I have
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watched her blossom into a strong just warrior for God,
12:07
really. And, you know, she was really,
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when I first met her, she was undergoing a lot of just
12:14
persecution, a lot of bullying in prison, which is very common.
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And, and she, you know, just turned to God and just started
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putting her trust and her faith there.
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And, and now she's a leader. I mean, she really is.
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And it it's just been a very, a very inspirational thing to
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watch. Yeah, just knowing her, you
12:39
know, I've known her since I was born and she's a fighter.
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Like a a literal scrapper. Yeah, she's going to beat the
12:51
everliving crap out of somebody if they even look sideways at
12:56
her. So the fact that she has not
12:59
been in one fight since she's been there is a true miracle,
13:03
honestly. Wow, see, that's not the person
13:07
I met. No, no, I mean, she is, she has
13:12
changed. She has a changed person.
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Because I honestly, I thought, oh gosh, Shelly's going to be in
13:17
the hole first thing she, she gets there.
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You know, I, I genuinely thought, oh man, we're going to,
13:24
she's going to be in the hole. She's going to be fighting,
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She's going to be hurting people.
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She's she's Pretty Little. She is, which is very tiny
13:34
there. She is, but she is a scrapper
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and so, you know, to just see how much she has changed and the
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fact that she has not once gotten in a fight that is huge.
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And so, you know, people like you are are are what has made
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that change in her, honestly. Yeah.
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And God's really done a, a work in that in the midst of all
14:00
that, because I can't tell you. And maybe she's mentioned that
14:03
too, so many times. I'll come in and I'll speak on
14:05
something and then she's shows me her notes that she'd been
14:09
reading and studying that week. And she's like, I can't believe
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it. I can't believe you came in
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talking about that this week. Every, every time I talk to her,
14:16
she's got an experience where you know her and I will do a
14:22
Bible study and she'll hear a speaker talk about the same
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thing. And then she'll turn on her TV
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and somebody preaching on TV is talking about the same thing.
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And she's just like, wow, this is just one affirmation after
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another of what God wants me to know.
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And you know, and it's not, she's not the type of person
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that's just going to be like, oh, always looking for it.
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No, she's just, she realizes that it it just keeps happening
14:53
over and over and over again. And so she has given God the
14:57
glory for that. Yeah, yeah.
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And that isn't that so awesome. It really.
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Is. So.
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How has your faith enabled you? You know your faith.
15:08
Walk your testimony. How is that enabled you to
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minister to these men and women? Well, it's kind of interesting
15:15
because I mean, when I started having walked through this, you
15:20
know, breakdown of a 21 year marriage, that I'd never saw the
15:25
whole thing coming. So I was, you know, I always
15:28
described, I still do as when that happened, it was like on
15:33
the cartoons when they come up with a frying pan and hit the
15:36
guy in the head and there's stars all around.
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That's how I felt, you know, disoriented, shock, disbelief
15:44
and panic, you know, all of those things.
15:48
And through that, God placed a, a woman in my life that was
15:55
going to become a just a incredibly close sister in the
15:58
Lord. She was a cancer survivor that
16:01
was working for my nephew. I was looking for someone to
16:05
come and just stay. I lived on a farm, you know, 5
16:08
miles from a town on this in this big empty house.
16:11
And I just wanted somebody I was looking for like a college
16:14
student or somebody to come and stay with me.
16:16
And I ended up meeting her and she was living in a dorm
16:23
situation in a discipleship house and with kids that were
16:26
all in their 20s. And she was 30, whatever, late
16:29
30s at the time. And so we ended up, she ended up
16:32
coming in and staying there. But she's just one of those
16:35
people, given that she walked through, she walked through
16:37
stage 4 breast cancer multiple times near death, you know,
16:44
through just strange reactions to drugs, medications, different
16:48
things. So, you know, she really helped
16:53
direct and guide me. And so my prayer became, you
16:56
know, Jesus, I just need you to be enough for me.
16:59
And so that when and then he became more than enough, I mean
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way more than enough. And so that has been sort of my
17:10
introductory story to people there.
17:12
It's different. It's nothing like what they've
17:15
walked through. Some may have gone through a
17:19
divorce or a relationship breakup.
17:21
But I think understanding, I mean, I'm from Canada.
17:24
I have no family here other than my two children, which don't
17:28
even live in this state. So it was a very, it was a time
17:33
when I felt super alone. I felt just very alone.
17:39
And God just filled in all those cracks and voids.
17:43
And, and so that's kind of what I started with, just sharing
17:48
that with, with people. And then it's been incredible
17:53
and I don't know how to explain it, but then the Lord just
17:58
started using me to teach. And that's kind of where our
18:01
ministry has, according to Johnny.
18:04
And Johnny, again, having spent all that time in prison, sat
18:08
through he, he was always in Chapel, he said when he was in
18:11
prison, not for the right reasons most of the time, but he
18:14
just said it was usually people just speaking at them.
18:18
But God's given me some how this ability to teach in a way that
18:23
they can understand. Maybe it was because I worked
18:26
with youth before, maybe because I have, you know, worked in
18:30
marketing communications in terms of laying information out.
18:37
But God always leads me to a topic or a script, some
18:39
scripture, and then but I have people coming up saying I've
18:44
never been able to understand. I can't understand the Bible.
18:47
I don't understand when people are talking, but I can
18:50
understand you explain it in a way that it just unlocks it for
18:55
me. And that's not me.
18:57
That's the Lord 100%. And so that has just been an an
19:04
incredible thing. I think that's kind of what I
19:08
have brought to people is the fact that, you know, you don't
19:15
have to have anything. If God wants to use you, he's
19:18
going to give you everything you need and, and he'll walk you
19:22
through whatever it is you need to walk through if you're
19:26
willing to just trust him. And so it's been, I have grown.
19:34
I mean, my, my own faith, my own relationship with God through
19:39
that combination. I mean, that was a weird
19:41
combination going through what I was going through and then
19:44
jumping right in, in the midst of that to prison ministry.
19:48
I really, and I did, I really thought, OK, you know, these
19:52
people aren't going to be interested in anything I have to
19:54
say. And they were and still are.
19:58
And still like when you see again, these guys with tatted
20:02
faces and everything and they've got Bibles open and scribbling
20:06
down notes and coming up afterwards.
20:08
I didn't catch that one. Scripture.
20:09
What was it? I mean, that's just.
20:12
Humbling, humbling and incredible.
20:15
And just my ministry partner Johnny has a line which I think
20:20
is perfect, he says. We have a front row seat in
20:24
God's theater of grace. Oh yeah.
20:27
And, and it really, truly is. We've seen some incredible
20:30
things. Yeah, I was just going to ask
20:32
you, what are some spiritual transformations that you have
20:37
witnessed or some kind of example that you can give us to
20:42
show what God has really done that you have seen?
20:47
So one of my favorite stories is we have a guy that's been out
20:52
for a couple years now and when he came to prison, he was a
20:58
raging meth addict. I mean, his picture, his first
21:03
picture on the his ID card was just like crazy.
21:07
Like he looked crazy. But he had most of his life
21:11
struggle with mental health issues.
21:13
He had been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, which often
21:18
go together, but bipolar, schizophrenia.
21:22
He said that his whole life he had three people living in his
21:25
head. He knew them by name.
21:28
They were just part of him, of course, turned to drugs to numb
21:33
everything. When we met him, he was on at
21:37
least eight different psych meds being treated that way in prison
21:42
because they when they're dealing with those kind of
21:44
things, which is kind of what the world does right now, is
21:47
they just medicate, medicate, medicate it, which doesn't solve
21:51
anything. And so anyhow, Mike eventually
21:56
gave his life to the Lord. I was had read a couple books
22:00
during that time that I thought were incredible.
22:03
The author is Doctor Neil Anderson and he wrote a book
22:08
called Victory over the Darkness, which is about your
22:11
identity in Christ, who you are in Christ.
22:14
And then Part 2 to that is called bondage Breakers.
22:18
And it's utilizing the power that God has given us to break
22:23
the strongholds in your life. And, you know, it's sort of a
22:28
it's a freedom ministry kind of series and it walks you through
22:33
doing an inventory of places in your life, things that have
22:39
either happened to you or that you participated in that have
22:44
opened up doors for the demonic to come in.
22:49
Because when you think about it, Jesus in his ministry for three
22:53
years went around, you know, like giving sight to the blind,
22:58
hearing to the deaf, you know, cure fixing the, the lame.
23:05
And he wasn't dealing with anxiety, depression,
23:08
schizophrenia or bipolar. He was casting out demons.
23:11
And so anyhow, Mike believed, he read the books.
23:17
I donated them to most of the prisons we were going to at that
23:20
time. He read both of the books.
23:23
He believed them. He started doing inventory.
23:25
He started through the power of the Holy Spirit casting out the
23:30
different things and started weaning off of all of his psych
23:36
meds, with working with the prison, with the psychiatrist at
23:41
the prison. And when he left prison, he was
23:45
off all meds for a year. He was off everything.
23:50
And we were in the Chapel one day.
23:51
He was the Chapel clerk or the Christian general Rep.
23:54
And so he, we always had a chance to visit before the
23:57
service. And he said to me, yeah, he
23:59
said, 'cause he, he, he told me he'd cast out these people that
24:04
were in his head. But he then he told me one
24:07
evening, he said the female, I forget her.
24:11
I forget their names. They all had names.
24:13
But he said, the female has never left.
24:16
She's still there. And he said, but she was never
24:19
the one that got me doing anything crazy.
24:21
She was never negative. And I said, Mike, Satan
24:25
disguises himself as the Angel of light.
24:27
She doesn't belong there. He has no place there in you.
24:32
And he looked at me and he goes, you're right.
24:34
And so he came back the next week and he said she gone and
24:42
and I mean, that's a miracle. So he's out of prison.
24:44
He's been out over a year. He's just doing amazing.
24:48
He speaks at different groups like there's what is it,
24:53
Alcoholics Victorious down where he lives and just sharing his
24:58
testimony, sharing the power of God to heal, completely heal
25:04
you. And so that's pretty incredible.
25:08
I mean that is. Yeah.
25:12
That's miracle working stuff right there.
25:14
Yeah, it's incredible to hear those kinds of stories.
25:16
And I've heard several stories like that with missionaries and
25:21
different things like that that go to different countries.
25:24
And it's always a hot topic or a controversial topic because one,
25:31
you don't want people going off their medications normally and
25:36
you know, all of that. And so and then people will
25:39
question you. Oh, well, you know, that's just
25:41
mental health illnesses. And but what I have come to
25:46
find, you know, in my journey through this world where I have
25:56
actually dealt with paranormal experiences and demonic
26:01
experiences, that that I know it's real.
26:05
And so I tend to lean towards the side of, you know, most of
26:11
it being oppressions and, and spirits and things like that
26:16
because I've seen it. Yeah, you know, a lot of people
26:21
will argue to the death, you know, that that's not real.
26:24
And you know, you're you're you're you're blaming something
26:29
for what's going on inside of you or whatever.
26:31
That's just natural or I don't know.
26:34
But I do know that in different countries, people with
26:37
schizophrenia, they usually use them as their shamans or their
26:42
their oracles, the people that commune with the other world.
26:50
And they're highly sought out and very protected, you know?
26:56
So that lends me to believe that, yeah, there really is
27:00
something. No, and my own son struggled
27:04
with anxiety, depression, and he'll be the first one to tell
27:08
you that is 100% demonic, it's 100% oppression.
27:12
And he has worked his way through all of that as well by
27:16
the power of God in his life. So yeah, it's it is until I
27:23
think until you see it first hand it, it's easy to try to
27:28
just pass it off and call it something else.
27:33
But it's that that has been a forever change thing in my world
27:37
for sure. Well, even Christians.
27:40
So for the most part, when you go into a church, the average
27:46
person sitting in the pews is not really going to believe in
27:50
demonic experiences, which is mind blowing considering the
27:57
fact that we say that we believe in a devil and in a God.
28:03
We say we believe in different dimensions because we can't get
28:06
to heaven from here. We can't get to hell from here.
28:11
You know, the Bible is full of weird, weird stuff and people
28:17
just kind of dismiss it or or make it taboo to even talk
28:22
about. And that's one of the things
28:24
that I do on here is, is trying to talk to people about taboo
28:28
subjects like paranormal and cryptids and UFOs and stuff.
28:32
Because as a Christian, people look at me.
28:36
It's a weirdo for being interested in that stuff.
28:39
But when it's come looking for you and you weren't looking for
28:42
it, then of course I'm going to explore it and try to figure out
28:47
what the heck's going on because, you know, it's real.
28:53
So I may sound like a weirdo, but that's OK.
28:56
No, hey, it's your experiences and like you said, the Bible's
29:00
full of supernatural. That's part of I mean, we are
29:05
spiritual beings. We are spiritual beings in a
29:09
shell. And so why wouldn't we think
29:12
that there's other things out there as well when the Bible
29:16
says that there are so. It surely does.
29:19
So is there anyone in your life that has influenced you in your
29:24
ministry? Anybody that you would like to
29:28
tell us about or? You know, well, probably my
29:35
ministry partner Johnny, just because of the transformation.
29:39
Again, like he tells me, we travel, so we do 70 to 80,000
29:44
miles a year. Oh wow, just for ministry.
29:48
And so it's a lot of time, kind of windshield time.
29:53
And he shares stories of his past, which if you met him, you
29:59
would just never, ever be able to picture what he's telling
30:04
you. And a lot of it, you know, he's
30:06
got a great sense of humor. And so a lot of the time the
30:09
stories are funny, funny and and unimaginable all at the same
30:15
time. So definitely he has impacted
30:20
me. I also have people that I met
30:25
from India, Indian nationals that are involved in ministry
30:33
and I'm not going to mention names or what they do even
30:36
because it's would put them at risk.
30:40
But seeing the times when I've been over there, seeing the
30:44
faith when you were talking about, you know, countries, the
30:47
world countries and places that where there's an incredible
30:50
amount of darkness to see the faith that they have.
30:56
And again, you know, living in North America where we're all
30:59
fat and happy, we don't understand what true poverty
31:04
really looks like. And I've seen it over there and
31:12
and when you see them receive and that's why the miracles that
31:17
happen over there are incredible.
31:21
And it's because they're all in, you know, they when they
31:25
finally, when they're, when their heart is opened up to
31:29
Jesus, they're all in, They're all in.
31:34
And they don't care what happens to them because they believe
31:37
that if I die, I win. If I live, I win.
31:42
And and we can't really understand that here.
31:46
No, we can't. And so that has changed me a lot
31:50
and motivated me a lot having had got to have that those
31:55
experiences over there in India as well and seeing, you know, a
31:59
family that, and this is a family, large family that are
32:04
all doing some level of ministry, which is which is life
32:09
risking for you. And and so that again, I feel
32:15
like, wow, you know, people say sometimes because we do 20
32:20
average 23 prison services a month, which is a lot.
32:27
But, you know, when we make, we sacrifice certain things that
32:32
some people don't or aren't willing to, but it's not a, it
32:36
doesn't feel like a sacrifice. It feels like an honor.
32:40
And especially when I think about, oh, so I'm giving up a
32:43
Friday evening, but my life's not at risk.
32:47
You know, my job is not at risk or whatever.
32:50
You know, for them, they can financially be impacted by, by
32:56
what they're doing with their faith.
32:57
So yeah. Yeah, I I have dealt with a lot
33:04
of missionaries and some of them have gone through way more than
33:10
we could ever imagine possible. Yeah.
33:15
So what are some what are some challenges that come with
33:21
working within the prison system now?
33:23
Do you go into jails as well? Or do you have prisons?
33:26
Yeah, the, some of the challenges are just the
33:31
challenges that the Department of Corrections has overall, but
33:36
especially coming out of COVID, there was incredible shortage of
33:39
staff, you know, qualifications lowered just to try to get
33:47
living, breathing people to take jobs there.
33:53
And so, you know, they've been working through some of those
33:57
struggles, which impacts us. So again, we would drive.
34:01
So Johnny lives in Warsaw, MO. I live in Sedalia, MO.
34:05
He comes 40 minutes up here to pick me up.
34:09
And then it's an hour and a half drive to Jeff's city.
34:12
We do that twice a week. And we would get up there and
34:16
find out not so much at the lower level prisons, but at the
34:18
maximum security prisons, because coming out of COVID,
34:22
there was just a lot of violence in the institutions.
34:25
And so we would people weren't showing up for work.
34:29
I mean, you're hiring 18 year old kids whose idea of prison is
34:35
Orange is the New Black, right? Right.
34:38
And so that you know, they have feel they have authority and
34:44
don't understand you're working with human beings who need to be
34:48
treated with respect if you want to get any kind of respect.
34:53
So anyhow, they have been struggling through those things.
34:56
But we would show up and not get to go into an institution
34:58
because they were short staffed. We have no one to work Chapel
35:02
tonight. So we were that those are some
35:05
of the challenges. Other challenges would be when
35:09
administration doesn't value what we bring can be a challenge
35:16
because they're not going to support the things that we do.
35:19
We've, I feel like we've been incredibly blessed with our
35:24
ability to access things. We really work hard to work
35:30
relationships on both sides. We work with administration and
35:33
staff and try to support them as best we can because that allows
35:40
us access to the offenders. And so we've really been pretty
35:47
blessed with that. We're doing some extra things.
35:49
We're teaching a class on servant leadership at at one of
35:55
our institutions in Jefferson City, which is, you know,
36:00
they're allowing us extra access and allowing us to come in and
36:03
do that. So that's huge.
36:06
Matter of fact, that book was written by a veteran.
36:10
Oh, OK. Yeah.
36:12
Dave Coonert is his name, servant leadership and he was a
36:15
23 year Army veteran and and so that's been a really great
36:23
program and just doing different things.
36:25
There was a back in March, Jenny Allen from Texas had that Gather
36:31
25, which was a global prayer and worship event.
36:35
It was an online 25 hours and then it went around the country,
36:40
around the world, different countries hosting it.
36:43
And the prison wanted to participate and they asked us if
36:45
we would help and it was going to be a 25 hour lock in at a
36:50
maximum security men's prison in the gymnasium.
36:53
That's what the original plan was.
36:55
And I was like, are we sure we want to be doing like a a lock
37:00
in there? Is that really the best idea?
37:05
And, and then I also said that there could be a lot of tears,
37:10
mostly me, but after 23 hours into it, if it's the middle of
37:13
the night and I'm, I'm not sleeping, which we, we ended up
37:18
starting at 6:30 in the evening, going till 11, breaking till
37:23
6:00 in the morning and then going till 7-8 at night.
37:26
It was pretty exhausting, but it was a pretty cool event because
37:29
they didn't have any custody overseeing it.
37:34
It was one of the deputy wardens joined us and an US and 130 men
37:41
and it was an it was just a beautiful, incredible event.
37:45
So again, sounds awesome. Just get to see some amazing
37:49
things. That sounds awesome.
37:51
So how do you address skepticism from people who may not believe
37:57
in maids deserve second chances? Because like you said, I I was
38:01
under the same mentality or or mindset of well you do the
38:05
crime, you do the time and whatever happens just shut up
38:09
and deal with it. Yeah.
38:12
You know. There's some a lot of people
38:15
that believe like jailhouse religion and you know that
38:19
they're really just that that's for that period of time.
38:22
I'll be honest with you, all the people that we see, you know,
38:26
which is in the hundreds weekly, they're they're not all going to
38:32
leave prison changed. They really want it.
38:36
I think a lot of them want it, but they don't stay long enough
38:41
sometimes and then they get out and there's just so many
38:44
distractions, so many challenges that they have to deal with when
38:49
they get out and and will fall away.
38:54
But I mean, once again, I'm, I'm working every day with a living,
38:59
breathing example of the difference it can make that you
39:05
know, God, as Johnny says, your creator is the only one who can
39:11
truly fix you. You can't fix yourself.
39:15
We can't be rehabilitated. We can be recreated by Jesus
39:22
And, and that's where the change really comes.
39:26
And it's, it's real. I mean, it, it is so real.
39:29
And when you see men who are, you know, have been in prison
39:34
for 30 years, say, hey, if God doesn't want me to get out, you
39:39
know, if they have a parole hearing coming up and they're
39:41
saying, you know, what if, if, if I don't get a positive result
39:47
out of this parole hearing, it's because God must still have work
39:50
to do on me. And that's OK 'cause I'd rather
39:53
stay here and get out completely ready to be out then not, you
40:00
know, then to get out and and end up coming back in.
40:03
Yeah, that's kind of where Shelly's at now.
40:05
At first, she was really, you know, had a lot of anxiety and
40:08
stuff about not getting the appeal.
40:12
And OK, so she's on her second appeal now.
40:15
But to be facing 25 years, Yeah, for, oh, you know, drugs.
40:22
Yeah. It's pretty ridiculous, but the
40:27
fact that she recognizes the that God is not done with her
40:32
yet there and that she is OK with whatever happens because
40:38
she there's been just a huge transformation.
40:43
Now Shelley, Shelley has always been the same, you know, but
40:49
she's always been impulsive and, and a go getter and always
40:57
dealing with the problem head on.
41:00
And so now she's had some time to have to stop and reflect and
41:05
learn about why she is impulsive and why she reacts the way that
41:10
she does. And it's just been, it's been a
41:14
huge difference. And I just I wish you knew the
41:18
Shelly before. Oh, maybe I'm glad I don't.
41:26
Know she was she was actually great then too.
41:28
Just just a spunky fighter. OK, so as a woman in spiritual
41:37
leadership, are there any unique challenges you face, you know,
41:43
either on the inside or the outside of prison?
41:47
Yeah, definitely. So the inside isn't a whole lot
41:50
different than the outside you've got, you know, based on
41:53
your denominational background. So I was brought up Catholic and
41:59
I got saved into a Baptist Church where I stayed for quite
42:03
a few years, I'm talking 20 some years.
42:09
And so when I, when COVID hit in through that time, and then when
42:15
COVID hit and churches shut down and I had started watching
42:19
different things, listening to different speakers and stuff
42:22
online because because at first I was really struggling,
42:24
especially when our other people left and suddenly I was the main
42:28
speaker, which people would call preacher.
42:32
I use the word I'm a teacher. But I started doing that mainly
42:36
because I felt, oh, I'm not supposed to be doing this.
42:43
And then I just again, because of the kind of teaching and how
42:47
the Lord was just working on me and taking me deeper into the
42:51
Word. And as a matter of fact, there
42:53
was a Thursday or a Friday night where the Chapel team at Algoa
42:58
came up to me and said, hey, we have something we want you to
42:59
speak on. And I said, what is it?
43:01
And they said, women speaking in church, women preaching in
43:06
church. And I said, why me speak on
43:08
that? And they said, because you're,
43:10
you'll do the best job of it. And, and I had already come to a
43:15
place where the Lord showed me that, you know, just through the
43:18
word. And but when I actually studied
43:23
to, to teach on it, the reality of the fact that there are two 3
43:31
verses in total that say something that can be deemed
43:36
that women shouldn't speak in church, should not be behind a
43:39
pulpit. And, and you, and yet you will
43:44
have most people tell you don't cherry pick verses, right?
43:49
And and so when I started studying those 3 verses, looking
43:52
at what was and I always, whenever I study anything, I
43:56
look at one end and I look at the other end and read things in
44:01
between and I have sources that I feel are solid on both ends.
44:06
And then I just sit with it and pray about it and ask the Lord
44:10
to show me, you know, and typically the IT proves itself.
44:16
You know, things prove themselves when you start
44:19
looking at the whole of scripture and women and their
44:22
role and you know, right from Deborah in Judges and you know,
44:27
I was always literally taught the only reason Deborah was a
44:31
judge was because there was no man that would stand up to do
44:33
it. And that's nowhere in the
44:35
scriptures. It's not there.
44:37
The only thing close to that was when Barack said that he would
44:41
only go to war if Deborah came with him.
44:44
And she said, I'll go, but the, the, the victory will not be by
44:49
your hand. It will be by the hand of a
44:50
woman. And she wasn't talking about
44:52
herself, talking about the one that actually killed Sisera.
44:58
So anyhow, I mean right from Deborah right into Jesus in and
45:03
the women that he dealt with, the way he dealt with women, the
45:07
jobs and and the way he called women into the ministry.
45:12
Mary and Martha sat at his feet while sitting at the feet of a
45:16
rabbi means that they were disciples of his.
45:18
They were his disciples as Mary Magdalene was Phoebe.
45:23
Paul himself used Phoebe to correct people that were, you
45:30
know, needing to be taught. I'm, I'm drawing a blank on his
45:34
name. It was a Greek fellow that
45:35
Phoebe and not Phoebe. I'm sorry, Priscilla and her
45:40
husband. And even the fact that when Paul
45:42
writes, he mentions Priscilla's name first, which normally never
45:45
happens, which means she was the leader spiritually in terms of
45:50
teaching at that point. So anyhow, it's that's the
45:56
world, you know, that's the whole go back to the garden when
46:00
God said you know your desire will be for your husband, but he
46:03
will rule over you. And that's what happens in a
46:06
fallen world is the relationship between men and women.
46:11
They were partners in dominion, you know, go forth and have
46:16
dominion over everything. They were told that not he was
46:21
told that. And I mean, yeah, there's some
46:25
creation, you know, order of creation, I think is true.
46:28
I think shepherding A flock myself, that's my own personal
46:33
belief is that that is more of a role for the man, a man, a male
46:37
to do. But women, I mean, that's that's
46:41
that's prophetically in Scripture that in those days,
46:46
your sons and daughters will prophecy and which is what
46:51
teaching and and preaching is. No, I, I agree with that.
46:55
And I went to school for ministry, for children's
47:00
ministry and I kind of always, you never know where the, where
47:11
the line is sometimes, especially when you're dealing
47:13
with different people, different groups and stuff like that.
47:16
And so I always try to try, I try to take a kind of
47:21
conservative lean on that. But I, I totally agree with you.
47:25
It's, it's all throughout the Bible, women are used to teach
47:30
and to take care of things. And and I don't think in any
47:35
way, shape or form that God wants to sit to the side and be
47:38
quiet. No.
47:40
And you know the whole, you know that there again, you want to be
47:44
literal then if you're going to take the three verses where it
47:47
says they should not speak, so they should be quiet.
47:52
So does that mean you don't want them singing?
47:54
You don't want them saying anything, You don't want them
47:57
announcing the church dinner? So they're you know, there's
48:01
just a lot there and I do. Again, it all comes down to
48:08
denominational things, which there again, that's another hot
48:12
button for me. Denomination.
48:14
Denominator is a math term. Denomination.
48:18
It means to divide. Right, it does.
48:21
Happen. So Christianity has been sliced
48:24
into literally thousands of pieces.
48:28
And what did Jesus constantly say His desire for his body was?
48:33
That that we would be united, that we would, that we would be
48:37
1, as he and the Father are one and we're not.
48:41
Yeah, I totally agree with that. It's, it's it's a conundrum as
48:46
to why we can't all just love. Yeah, yeah.
48:52
Well, it's because it's a fallen, broken world.
48:55
It's sinful. And Jesus himself said, you
48:59
know, the road is narrow and few will enter.
49:02
You can call yourself whatever you want to call yourself.
49:05
But and that's what you know, that is the other thing that we
49:08
do in the prisons is it we speak truth in love.
49:13
We're not there to make them feel good.
49:16
And the guys always joke about that.
49:18
You know, they'll say, Oh my gosh, when are you going to give
49:20
us a break? You just because this is life or
49:25
death, this is life or death stuff and and you've got to know
49:29
the truth. Making you feel good is not
49:33
going to save your soul. No, it's not, and it's going to
49:36
keep you doing the same old same old.
49:39
Exactly. Jesus.
49:41
Jesus isn't puppy puppy dogs and rainbows and all the fluffy
49:45
stuff. Right.
49:46
No, no, I mean he was harsh and he spoke truth and that's the
49:53
love piece of it is that guys, you know, we don't want, we
49:57
don't want to a see you coming back in.
49:59
We see a lot of that. We work, we do a once a month
50:02
service at Fulton, which is a diagnostics perception and
50:06
diagnostics as Vandalia was for women.
50:10
And and so we go in there and every single month we're seeing
50:15
somebody we've had in a prison somewhere, you know, and they
50:18
come in. Yeah, it's no big deal.
50:20
It's just APV. Yeah, that's not that is a big
50:23
deal 'cause you're back in prison.
50:25
Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's important
50:31
for us that they know truth about those things.
50:36
Yeah, totally. I'm going to have to get with
50:39
you and and go to some of these places with you because, you
50:43
know, I don't live very far from some of the places you're
50:45
talking about. So I would like to do that.
50:50
And I tried to get into prison ministry a while back, but the
50:54
guy that does it with our church, for whatever reason
50:58
didn't understand I guess what I wanted to do or something.
51:02
So hopefully, you know, I can start getting into that.
51:06
But I would like to accompany you guys and see what you guys
51:10
do. Yeah, we'd love that.
51:13
We would, we would love that. We have actually, we get cap
51:18
collect prayer requests from people when we go in and we've
51:22
got a about 130 people that weekly we send out the prayer
51:27
needs of people in prison and, and we're talking a lot of
51:31
retired people and just people who that's what they can do.
51:34
And that's huge. That's a huge thing to do to
51:38
support what we're doing is to pray for people and you know,
51:44
cause a lot of these and you and I think it's beautiful to see,
51:47
you know, a lot of people, hey, pray for my parole hearing, pray
51:50
that I, that I get out of this charge that I have or whatever.
51:55
But a lot of them are praying for their mom and dad, you know,
51:59
who are aged and need care. And they're not there to take
52:02
care of them or their wife or their children or their sully,
52:07
you know, who needs Jesus. And so, yeah, that's.
52:13
And people kind of underestimate, I guess, when
52:19
somebody says, oh, I'll pray for, you know, to some people
52:22
that just means, oh, I'm just going to stop for a second, you
52:25
know, and say, please help them, you know.
52:27
But then we have these prayer warriors, the retired people and
52:31
people who have nothing to do all day, you know, that will
52:34
actually get in there and take a prayer list and go each person
52:39
and each need and everything. And that takes a lot of skill
52:45
and a lot of of dedication, honestly, because my mind
52:49
wanders all the time. Yeah, no, for sure, That's a
52:53
gift. And yeah, it's, it's it's pretty
52:57
cool to see people that are willing to do that.
53:00
And I think it's changed them as well when they get to reading
53:03
all these prayer requests. It does.
53:05
And when Shelly went into prison, you know, like I said,
53:10
I, you know, you do the time, you do the crime or you do the
53:13
crime, you do the time. Be quiet, you know, and most
53:17
people just kind of forget about incarcerated individuals, even
53:23
in our own families, you know, they'll, they'll go to prison or
53:27
jail and you'll just kind of forget about them.
53:28
Oh yeah. Out of sight, out of mind.
53:31
Yeah. And most people don't want to
53:33
think about prisons and people in the prisons, they really
53:37
don't. They would be just as happy to
53:38
never hear about them. And.
53:42
And it's a shame because they're going to need a lot of help if
53:45
they do get out. Pardon me.
53:48
And they're not, you know, many, there are many who are not the
53:51
same person that, that went in there.
53:55
And, and that is, you know, I, I understand that there are
53:59
victims and victims families that, that are definitely a part
54:06
of the process as well and cannot be forgotten.
54:11
But I do know people that are not who they were when they went
54:18
in there. It's kind of like to me, that's
54:19
like, they're a bunch of Johnnies that tell stories about
54:23
who they were, but that's not who they are.
54:26
And it's like, really, I can't understand that.
54:28
I can't understand that you're here, that you've been here for
54:32
47 years and you're still here. It's that does feel sad to me,
54:39
but I do always have to remind myself of the other side of it
54:43
too, depending what they're in there for.
54:46
And but I've also witnessed and seen people who have come to the
54:52
place where they were finally able to forgive on the victim
54:55
side of things. I have too.
54:58
And speak at parole hearings and things like that.
55:00
So yeah, that's possible. Yeah, I have a a friend from
55:06
Florida whose daughter was killed and she eventually became
55:11
friends with the guy, leading him to Christ as well.
55:15
So it does happen. It's just it takes a strong
55:19
individual to do that. But that's what we're all I
55:23
mean, the truth of the matter is we're all called to that, right?
55:26
We are. That's the that's very clear.
55:29
Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors as as we
55:34
forgive. So it is.
55:38
It's a place everybody has to get to.
55:40
One way or another, you have to get there.
55:43
Yeah, well, I've learned the only person you're really
55:45
hurting is yourself when you don't forgive because that other
55:49
person is usually not thinking about you or, or whatever, you
55:53
know? And so forgiveness helps you
55:56
more than it helps the other person.
55:57
Yeah. Well, thank you, Eunice for
56:02
coming on and talking to me. And is there anything that you
56:05
would like to promote and let everybody know to go watch out
56:10
for or anything like that? Not that I can think of other
56:15
than we would just love people to pray for the Department of
56:22
Corrections because they are, I believe, sincerely wanting to
56:27
make some changes. And how they incarcerate
56:29
understanding that, you know, the punishment is to be
56:34
separated from society, not to be treated, you know, inhumanely
56:40
or whatever. So they are trying to look at
56:44
just training programming, you know, that that is more
56:48
supportive, truly supportive of giving people skills and tools
56:53
that they can use. And then but they're battling a
56:57
lot of things from a lot of angles, right?
57:00
The drug problem in prison, we need to be, we need to be
57:03
praying for that. It's a lot of people dying in
57:07
this country in and inside and outside of prison from drugs.
57:11
So yeah, just prayer, prayer, prayer for for that, prayer for
57:15
us. Just that the Lord would
57:18
continue to lead us and guide us and, and we just appreciate any,
57:23
any, any prayer we can get so. And it's Rise Up ministries.
57:28
Rise up Prison Ministry and we have a website Rise up Prison
57:32
Ministry all lower case together.
57:35
No IES just AY on the end of all that.com and if you want to just
57:42
see a little bit more information and yeah, so OK.
57:47
Well I will. I will e-mail you and try to get
57:51
together for. Sure.
57:53
Get involved with your ministry because I really, it's something
57:57
that has been put on my heart since Shelly's been in prison.
58:00
And God, God has a way of just getting me involved where I
58:07
never thought I would ever be involved in things.
58:10
I relate. I can relate.
58:13
OK, well thank you, Eunice so much and I hope that you have a
58:17
blessed evening and a wonderful visit with your mother.
58:21
OK. Thanks so much, Amber.
58:22
Take care. OK, bye, bye.
58:24
Bye. OK guys, thank you so much for
58:29
watching and for putting up with my my uhs and uhs and umms.
58:36
But yeah, thank you so much for everything and just get out
58:41
there and do something to help people.
58:44
I know that prison is a weird thing and taboo and you know
58:51
that people have made mistakes and need to be there, but
58:54
they're humans. And so just just think about
58:57
that. They're humans and they need,
59:01
they need love too. And if we could share love and
59:05
and share kindness to these people, then maybe they can
59:10
change as well. Have a blessed evening.
59:15
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in to Military
59:19
Broadcast Radio. As we wrap up today's show, we
59:24
want to remind you that the podcast of today's episode will
59:28
be available right after we go off the air.
59:31
So if you missed any part of the show or want to listen again, be
59:36
sure to check it out. And remember, we're here to
59:40
support and honor our veterans. Your stories and experiences
59:46
matter, and we are committed to giving you a platform to share
59:51
them. That's right, we're here to give
59:54
our veterans a voice. So don't forget to catch the
59:58
podcast and stay connected with us giving our veterans a voice.