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Your Best Employee's H-1B Is Running Out · Border Banter: An Immigration Podcast

0:06
SPEAKER_01: Today we're talking about something that comes up all the time in conversations.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: US consular interview.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking about the straightforward, you know, you have a clean history, you failed out the application, but we're talking about cases where there's a little something going on.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: You may have oversteaded, you may have a removal order, there might be criminality.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things we've always noticed is people have this very particular idea of what this interview is about.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: They're picturing an intimidating visa officer sitting in front of them, asking them every question under the sun to try to catch them in a lie.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: But is that how it really is?
0:40
SPEAKER_01: What is the console officer looking for?
0:42
SPEAKER_01: How much time do they actually have to assess you?
0:45
SPEAKER_01: And what kind of training are they receiving before they're interviewing you?
0:49
SPEAKER_01: And the most important thing is what actually matters in that interview?
0:53
SPEAKER_01: What are applicants spending time on prepping for that they don't need to?
0:58
SPEAKER_01: What kind of training do these officers receive?
1:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sonia Siddu, and I'm joined by Ian Hopper, our government relations director at Green of Spico.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: And this is Borderback.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Ian, thank you so much for joining me.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I know you flew in, um, and I'm really excited to have you here today.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: But there's a very special reason that you're in my hot seat today.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Um I am a uh former U.S.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: diplomat, uh U.S.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Senior Consular Officer and Foreign Service Officer with the State Department, with the uh United States State Department.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I just retired last year.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: I've served in every region of the world uh in multiple posts, mostly in consular chores, but not exclusively.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and I'm here to talk about consular work, consort interviews, uh, and immigration to the United States.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Walk me through the process of an interview.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, say if I needed a visa to the US, what do I do?
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, first of all, I think it's important to note that, you know, the vast majority of people really have little to no interaction with uh with U.S.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: immigration.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Um Americans in particular have little to no uh experience with immigration or having to use passports, visas, et cetera.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, only roughly half of U.S.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: citizens have passports.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And for people, for Americans who are traveling abroad, virtually none of them ever have to get an actual visa, do a visa interview before they go.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: They just show up.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: They just get on a plane and show up.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: So it is, it's obviously a very hot topic in the United States, but the level of in information, um, even among Americans, is incredibly low.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, so in order to get a visa to the United States, the first thing you need to do is figure out what kind of visa you want to apply for.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: We have uh the United States has specific uh visa categories uh based on the purposes of the trip, uh, what you can do while you're there, and the kind of qualifications that you have.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: So there may be multiple options for you.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there may be, frankly, zero options for you.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: And then you need to try to figure out what fits best rather than trying to choose among many.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Once you have that down and you know the visa category that you want to apply for, uh, you need to apply for the visa.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, that could start with a preliminary process through the Department of Labor or the Department of Homeless Homeland Security with a petition, or for the most simple type of visas, tourism, uh, business visits, meetings, et cetera, could just be getting an appointment at a U.S.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: embassy or consulate abroad, uh, and then going through that interview process.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So once you have that appointment, you show up, follow their instructions, show up on time.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: You have your passport, you have your uh your appointment sheet, you have the uh the receipt of the application that you've provided.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then you show up at the at the consulate or embassy and you go through security.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: You first uh usually talk to an initial greeter who will check uh your documents, and then you'll talk to somebody who will verify that your passport and your um your application is on file and nothing needs to be updated because some people get appointments six months out, one year out.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: What if your passport changes?
4:10
SPEAKER_00: What if you've lost your passport?
4:11
SPEAKER_00: What if you change jobs?
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Things change over time.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: That's perfectly fine.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: And then once they um once they show up for that appointment, they go through that initial process and then they uh have their fingerprints taken um and and verify that the photo is correct, and then they actually talk to a counselor officer.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: And that's when the the uh the fun begins, the interview begins.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: So when they walk in, they have an appointment.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Does the counselor officer already have their file or it's randomly assigned in that moment?
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so every post does it a little bit differently, but I think um it is uh standard now for almost every post in the world, pretty much every post in the world that has more than one officer, um, that it is random.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: And the way most people, most posts do that is through a snake line, kind of like at an airport or at an amusement park where um you go through uh this line.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And then once you get to the end of the line, you get the whoever uh officer is next available.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: So it's like an amusement park.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: You're going through that ride and that or going through that line, and then the ride at the end is either very thrilling or very disappointing, depending on how the interview goes.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good um point to point out because it's not the officer has been able to look at your file, go through with a fine-tooth chrome.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: They're doing it live in front of you.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with with very few exceptions, there are a few visa categories where documents are submitted in advance.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, the E2 is one of those, the treaty trader, treaty investor visas.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for the most part, even though you've submitted an application online, even though you've booked an appointment, that officer, that person who's going to make a decision, doesn't know you exist until you show up, you stand in front of them for that interview.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: So um, I think a lot of uh visa applicants are under the impression, well, I filed my application, they certainly read through all of it.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: They haven't, they they don't pull it up or look at anything until the moment you stand in front of them.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And then they're simultaneously talking to you and scanning through that application.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot, a big misconception also that we've heard around is like, hey, these interviews are kind of like a job interview.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: Present yourself as you're presenting yourself at a job interview.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Is that the right line to think on?
6:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: I I haven't actually heard many people characterize it as a job interview.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's a that's a not a not helpful way to think about it in that you do want to explain uh your best self.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: You want to explain your purpose of travel to the officer, you want to be open.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to just staccato answer questions, answer question, you know, very um, very business-like.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: I think unfortunately, most people kind of have the idea that the the interaction with a with an immigration uh with a with a consular officer is a little more like being pulled over by a cop, where you know, they they have somebody who roll you roll down your window and they ask for your license and registration, and you give them the license and registration.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: They ask you, why did you pull me over?
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And we're all trained to say, I don't know.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Very, very short, where are you going?
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Just the answer.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, do you know that you were speeding?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, just very, very short answers, and almost like you know, because this person is a law enforcement officer, they think if I say the wrong thing, I'm going to get arrested, or I'm I'm this will all go badly.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's important to know consort officers, as I said, are diplomats.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: They um start their career usually doing consort work, but they might not be consort-conded in the sense that that might not be their specialty.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: They might be doing many other things, or they've done other jobs and then they come to consort work.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: They're not, none of them are law enforcement professionals.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: They don't have the power to arrest anybody.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: Nobody, they're not going to order an arrest at the end.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: The the goal of the interview, and the whole reason the US government does interviews for visas, is to uh to have a one-on-one conversation with a traveler to determine the bona fides for their qualifications for that visa and whether they plan to use that visa uh within the bounds of the law.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: It's the the it's supposed to be a value-added process.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: So I think that people who try to um either they're too nervous, they close themselves up, they're worried about what to say, they're scared, um, they run the risk of really wasting that opportunity.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're under the impression, well, I filed my application, I have these documents, I can do other things.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: All of that is secondary and sometimes not interesting at all to the consular officer compared to the actual verbal interview itself.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, in on the Canada side, there's not much that gets interviewed.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, like the reviews of criminals, there's usually not interviews.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: But when there's interviews like for espousal sponsorships, what I've always noticed is you know, certain countries, you know, um, certain people are taught to fear authorities.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: When they go into these interviews, they shut down.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Or they, you know, they'll look down, they won't meet eye, they won't answer the questions beyond what is there, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And we always have to say, answer the question, but like be you.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Talk to the person as if it's a colleague or a friend.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: And I know that's a really easy thing for me to sit here and say, not having gone through it, although I have gone through it with other countries, and I know it's not super easy to do.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: But when you close yourself off like that, and I know, like you said, culturally, there are many people who feel like they should uh be incredibly deferential, incredibly quiet, and incredibly short with their answers and to the point and direct.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And you shouldn't, I'm not saying you should sit there and give a soliloquy for every answer, but just keep in mind this is your opportunity to make the case for why you're planning to go to the United States and why you should be able to get that visa.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: And when you don't give that interaction to the officer, which is what they want, what they're what they're looking for, when you don't give it to them, you're not leaving them much to make a decision with.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it comes down like also understanding what is the officer asking you, right?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: If you go off on a tangent but you didn't answer the question, there's an issue.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Right?
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Because that's gonna come down to interpretation.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Why didn't the person answer the question?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And the best, the best interviews are ones in which it is a true conversation.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: It's not question, answer, question, answer, question, answer.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: It's I have a question, I'm gonna talk about it for a little while.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: And then that question will probably be a follow-up to something you added to there, and then back and forth, and or maybe a clarification.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: You ask a question and go, well, now actually that wasn't how it went.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: It was more like this.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: And it's really more of a back and forth between two people, which is at its root what it is, that then results in in an outcome.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: I know like you and I have both said it, it's like, you know, it could be conversational.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: You need to have like answer questions.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I and we do get it gets hard when you're in there.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I'll speak from my experience when I'm going to the US, I get nervous answering questions, but I do this all the time, right?
11:22
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, oh, but what if they interpret it like this, or what if they think like that?
11:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's easier for us to sit back and say it, and we do understand, like, hey, it can get hard.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you want to try to keep it grounded as much as you can.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but typically, how long do these interviews actually last?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, to get back to your point about nervousness, uh everybody's going to be nervous.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: And what I used to train officers is you should expect a level of nervousness.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: And when they're beyond that level of nervousness, you should be concerned.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: When they're below that level of nervousness, you should probably be concerned.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's looking for things that are outside of the norm.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: But the interviews are very short.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's it varies depending on the visa category and the post that you're being interviewed in.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: But it's not uncommon for a typical B1B2 tourist business visa to be about three or four minutes long.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And just like anything else that's stressful, when you're in it, it's going to feel even shorter than that.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the reason is because these counselor officers are expected to interview 80 to 100 people a day.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: And if you do the math of three to four minutes per person, you're very quickly exceeding most of the day.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And then there's all the back office work that they need to do to make sure that the visa gets issued, like reviewing documents, reviewing security information, um, all the other tasks that are put upon them as Foreign Service officers.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so they really only have three or four minutes to go to go through an interview.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Some take longer.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Immigrant visa uh interviews tend to take longer, um, but some are just that short.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: So you really, this is why the conversation is so important.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: You really want to maximize that short amount of time that you have.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: You had made a comment that is like, you know, the snake cue.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: When you interview someone, are you thinking of approval or rejection right then and there and like uploading into a system?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Or are you having a day where you go back to it or you have an afternoon off where you cope through your um decisions?
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Counselor officers are generally trained, and the way I would train people is to do everything you can to not go back in time and try to question your decisions because you're not likely to make a better decision for issuance or refusal.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: It could go either way, based on whatever your caveats or concerns are later on than where you were at the beginning.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, the vast majority of visa interviews end with a decision.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: The decision is rendered, and that's it.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: They don't go to it afterward, except in the cases where they have to.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: There's it's offended for some reason, like a security clearance or some documents that are better required, or some sort of you know, bureaucratic issue, like they need a new passport, a new photo, things like that.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the most of them are that's it, done and and decided right there.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And in Toronto, I don't know if you know this, but do you know how long the wait period is to get an appointment?
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for tourist visas, for most people, it is uh about nine to twelve to thirteen months, depending on when you apply.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, people cancel appointments all the time.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Appointments are added all the time.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: So we do recommend the people keep checking periodically because new a new appointment that that might come up sooner.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is quite a while.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: It is oversubscribed.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, even though Canadians, of course, don't need visas, the vast majority of Canadians don't need visas to come to the United States.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, Canada is a an incredibly heterogeneous population.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: There are people from all over the world.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: It's actually a pretty hard place to be a consular officer because you have, you know, 80 to 100 different nationalities that are going to come in every single day.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: So 80 to 100 different passports, different types of documents, languages, different um uh expectations and security requirements for each one.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a really hard thing to switch gears back and forth, in addition to switching different types of visa categories that you're going through each each time.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And like even checking vetting documents like police clearances, you have to be able to mail which ones were the correct ones from various countries, right?
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Because countries can have police station-issued police clearances or actual state-issued police clearances, right?
15:43
SPEAKER_01: So that's real interesting.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: So it does make it hard.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, not I wouldn't want to say hard, but it makes it more interesting being a consular office here in Canada because you have a whole range of like cultures and countries that come across.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely more diverse.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: And and I think, but one of the nice things about it is that Canada has such a such a vibrant economy.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: People come in, and one of the nicest things about being a consular officer is you get to talk to everybody.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, as a diplomat, you know, if you're working in a political section, an economic section, most of the people you're going to talk to are elites, frankly.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: They are political leaders, they're economic leaders or business owners, they're heads of associations, heads of universities, and that's great.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And you can learn an enormous amount of things from them.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: The benefit that a consular officer has, which is why sometimes consular um interviews get fed into that kind of reporting, is they talk to everybody.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: They talk to workers and mothers and children and elderly, retired, and people from all areas of the world, or all areas of the country and the world here.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and Canadians are very mobile.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: So people will go wherever they need to go for an interview.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: So if they're from Vancouver, they might still come to Toronto for their interview if they see an earlier appointment there.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: So you get the benefit of talking to all of these people, and you never know who it's going to be or what kind of field that they're working on, uh, which is incredibly interesting.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: You might have, you know, a professional hockey player followed by a theoretical physicist, um, followed by somebody who lives, you know, two buildings down from where the consulate is.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's just really, really interesting to work here.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no two days are the same.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, the consular officer.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, we typically think, hey, you know, someone's sitting there or this mysterious person, and they've been trained to intimidate the applicants.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is probably very different.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the intimidation comes regardless of whatever they want to do.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I have yet to meet a consular officer in the thousands and thousands of commissore officers I've met who have ever wanted to intimidate an applicant.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: An intimidated applicant won't talk to you, won't answer questions.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: They want to put you at ease as much as they can.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, a waiting room is probably not the place where most people are at ease.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: It is a stressful situation.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: It is loud, it's not particularly comfortable, you're standing a lot.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, but all despite that, they want you to talk.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: So they are, you know, compsular officers, diplomats, U.S.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: diplomats come from all walks of life, all parts of the United States and abroad.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, they have all sorts of, you know, uh, of uh of heritages.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, some of them are native speakers of whatever the language is in the country that they're serving, some aren't.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, some went through language training before they came.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I took uh 10 months of Arabic.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, please don't test me on my Arabic.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: It's quite a while since I had to use it.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, so their language level is going to vary quite a bit.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and their professional background.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, some people came straight from university, masters, et cetera.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: Some people come from the military, some people come from the private sector, bankers, teachers, lawyers, et cetera.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was a journalist before I joined.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Um people come from all sorts of different backgrounds, and that's the point.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, we the idea is to have a wide swath of America, to have people who have all sorts of socioeconomic uh and and uh demographic backgrounds, um, because that gives us the best opportunity to both represent the United States, but also to relate to the people that we're talking to.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: This brings up a question in my mind.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: You know, you said you have the language training, but what about cultural and social training?
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Because every region is just so different.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And having officer understand what is socially the norm or culturally the norm in that region could determine whether a visa should be issued or not.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: So the language training that takes place is specific to the country that the person is going to, and the language training comes along with cultural training for that country.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a French uh student going to Paris is not going to get the same experience and training as one going to Haiti or to West Africa.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that is part of it.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: The another big part of it is the fact that consular officers, diplomats live in the places that they're serving.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, the vast majority of U.S.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: diplomats do not live on compounds or uh fortresses or at the consulate or embassy that they serve in.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: They live in the community.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: They live in houses, they have neighbors, they have friends, they send their kids to a school, they have um lots of uh of people from the local culture that they interact with and and are friends with every day.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: So they learn it there.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: The other big um big benefit from that is that uh US embassies and consulates employ uh far more local staff members than they do American staff members.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: So they hire locally um to do all the things that you need to do to keep any institution running, from uh, you know, consular processing to the people you see at the in the interview to um specialists in language, uh to people who work in motor pool and facilities and everything else.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: So they're there not just to serve that role, but also um to give a cultural check to, you know, I I can uh count the number of times that I went to a local staff member and and just told them about something that I'd seen or heard and said, is that does that sound normal to you?
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Does that and that's really the question that we always end up asking?
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Does that is that normal?
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Is that a typical thing?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Does that seem right to you?
21:33
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's and they'll tell you.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: They'll tell you if it is or isn't, and then they'll give their perspective.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And over time, because you know, counselor officers will serve in a post for two, three, four years, um, they develop that expertise.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna ask, what's the typical posting, which thanks for answering?
21:51
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, and that skill plays into now on the flip side from our side, you know, when we're doing applications, it's nice to have people that know the culture, the norm.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: In that area because it helps us determine what documents would be important.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Does this document make sense?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: And then making sure the officer that's going to be reviewing it understands the implications of such documents.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: And to ask the right questions of the visa applicant themselves so that they know, you know, what's going to be expected of them and what what kind of documents are or are not helpful.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: So I promised the listeners like this wasn't going to be about a simple, you know, interview.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: This is really, hey, you know, what if I have a negative immigration history?
22:36
SPEAKER_01: What if I've overstayed?
22:37
SPEAKER_01: What if I've been arrested?
22:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, is my application dead in the water right off the bat?
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think it will surprise anybody listening to hear that uh the current administration is treating a lot of these situations a lot differently than in the past.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: There is significantly less, um, frankly, compassion and leeway for some of these issues.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the same time, people are traveling all the time, people are getting issued visas all the time.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Just because something has happened in the past doesn't mean uh all hope is lost.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: It all comes down to the specifics.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: What happened, when it happened, who were you at the time, what were the circumstances surrounding the incident at the time, and what's happened since then?
23:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to get into the details.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And some of these conversations can be can be very sensitive, can be very tense uh when I'm talking with with applicants, uh, or or you know, where we're talking with clients about these circumstances, because I think everyone is a little bit uh ashamed, sometimes concerned, sometimes uh they feel like it's too personal.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, they don't want to get into it.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but wouldn't it be better to get into it with us than at the first time with a consular officer?
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we can help um ask the right questions, put it in context, um, try to make the best possible case for, regardless of what happened, why the person is still eligible, if it's possible to be eligible, or if the person is ineligible, is there a waiver possible and how would we go about doing that?
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the the biggest issue is just be as transparent as you can, both with your the people who are helping you, the attorney, the firm, but also with the console officer.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: There is no circumstance in which hiding the ball turns out well for anybody.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: The consor officer will know if there's an overstay.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: They will know if there was an arrest.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't count the number of times people have said I wasn't arrested, and then literally, like it's right there.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, I can tell you the time and date and and the jurisdiction where it happened.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: And then it's always something, well, but that wasn't really how it turned out.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: But okay, an arrest and as an arrest.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: So denying it right off the bat is is definitely the wrong way to go.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I always say, like, you know, in those situations, you can explain, hey, there was a situation, I'm not sure if it was classified as an arrest or a charge, like things where, you know, there's an investigation, it was dropped, whatever it is.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: But when you're truthful, and you may not remember the exact days, but we can be like, hey, when I was younger, or you know, I remember in my college days.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And the best thing I was in my people change.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: You and I are not the same people we were even a year ago, right?
25:31
SPEAKER_01: So what has happened since that situation till now that can be put forward.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: But if you don't tell us, there's no way for us to present that.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I when I got my security clearance, because of course diplomats need security clearances, um, I had to have a tough conversation with uh with a diplomatic security officer about some substance use that happened when I was much younger.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, maybe a police interaction or two that happened when I was much younger.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I explained how stupid I was and what happened and how much time has passed since then, and that was it.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's really important to talk about it.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people start getting into, they become, they become lawyers for themselves.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: They start saying, well, yes, I was arrested, but then the charges were dropped.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I was arrested, but then it was expunged.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I was arrested, but it was no contest.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you were arrested, that's the question that's being asked in the application.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: So if you start with no from that, then it looks like you're being deceitful.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you start with, I was arrested and the charges were dropped, then you can say that.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: You can explain that.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: And then you know, you're gonna be expected to explain the circumstances of what happened.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's no good that that can come from it didn't happen.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: You made a comment that you know, you can see the arrests, the dates on your screen.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Now there's information sharing within countries as well, correct?
26:57
SPEAKER_00: There is some information sharing within countries, yes.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: So gotta be careful.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you can't just think, oh, because it was in Canada, you know, the US is not gonna know about it.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Things come up, and it's is there a ban if you're caught deceiving or misleading on an application?
27:14
SPEAKER_00: It absolutely is.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: There um, there's a ban called uh 212A6B1, which is a lot of legaleese, or misrepresentation.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: So this would fall under the category of cutting off a line of inquiries.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: So if you didn't disclose something or denied something that would have led to an ineligibility of some kind or would have led to a path of inquiry that could have resulted in ineligibility, then that itself becomes an ineligibility.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's a lifetime ban from all feasans.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: It's a very serious concern.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't happen a lot, but it happens from time to time.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when people uh you know try to either conceal things through changing identities or changing documents or falsifying a document, um, or just fail to disclose things, they run that risk.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Ian, you and I were having a conversation earlier today, and you actually taught me something that I didn't know, um, where you know, if you'd make a US application and you decide not to proceed with it further or complete the steps required, in the US, there's no such thing as an actual withdrawal of an application, but you are see, in the essence, there is a potential rejection, whether you went ahead with all the steps.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: So when on the Canada side, and this caught me off guard because I'm like from the Canada side, when we do applications, it asks, have you ever been refused any sort of visa application?
28:41
SPEAKER_01: If they come to me and say, Well, we started something and we didn't continue, we withdrew it, technically that's a refusal.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: If you file a petition with USCIS, and it's important to remember petitions and visas are two different things.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: Just because you're approved for an H1B petition doesn't mean you have an H 1B visa.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole separate process.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is one of the reasons why counselor officers hate the term stamping.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, A, visas are not stamped.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: They haven't been stamped for 30 years.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're visa foils that are stuck on.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but also it gives the impression that it's like a rubber stamp.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just you're just going there to pick up the visa itself.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a whole separate vetting process that takes place.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: So with a petition, you can file one and withdraw one.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: With a visa, or I want to try some other avenue for immigration, um I'm not going to do that.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: That's fine, you can do that.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: But technically, according to the US Department of State, that is a refusal because that request for documentation was a refusal.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, in this in the US Department systems, that is what's called a Section 221 G refusal.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's uh it's a soft refusal, it can be overcome, but in the system, it is stands as a refusal.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: So that refusal, if you get ever asked by another government, have you ever been refused a US visa?
30:09
SPEAKER_00: That technical answer is yes.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting because I don't think a lot of people know that.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Um also question from that is say I book my visa appointment, but I didn't go.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: Is that still a refusal?
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So if you book your visa appointment, you filed the application, you've paid for it, but you don't show up.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: So that gets into a technical gray area of depending on what the consular officers did with those systems.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: There is a way to delete those cases without it being open without refusing it.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: But you don't know whether they did or not.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: And you have no way of knowing, and they're not going to tell you at the end because you've just ghosted them anyway.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that you should consider that technically a refusal.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, it's a very easily explained refusal.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I was refused, but I didn't go to the interview.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I decided not to pursue it.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you shouldn't say no, it was never refused.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, like you said, sometimes the interview dates are possibly nine months out.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't need to visit anymore in nine months, so you decide just not to go.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you be a Canadian citizen and don't need a visa at that point.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: So say I can't wait the nine months.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Is there any sport of priority dates that I can get set?
31:27
SPEAKER_00: So there is a pilot program uh happening in a few countries, including in Canada, uh, in which uh for B1B2 for the tourist and visa applicants, they can uh apply for a US visa, take an appointment, and then an option will come up for an expedited uh appointment.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: That's an extra$750 fee.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Um that option will come up only once and it'll come up immediately, right after um trying to book an appointment.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Um so if you don't take that option, then it won't come up again.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: You won't get the chance to do that again.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, but if you do take it and pay that$750 fee, then you'll be able to get an appointment within the next 10 days.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Very soon, you need to make those plans, be ready to go in those 10 days and book that or book that appointment and go to that appointment.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, other than the early appointment, it doesn't afford any other benefits.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: The consular officer will have no idea whether the person has taken an expedited appointment or not.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is not a fast track line like in an amusement park.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: You don't get an earlier trip through the consulate to be able to get to your appointment.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: You have to stand in line just like everybody else.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it has nothing to do with whether you're going to get that visa or not.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, it has no effect on your eligibility.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And as I said, the consular officer doesn't even know.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: So they're just going to treat your application just like everyone else's.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: But for some people, particularly business travelers, people who have, you know, an immediate need to go, maybe a family crisis or something like that, that it does provide an option for them that didn't exist before.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, the flip side of this is that even though the emergency expedite requests still exist, the criteria for that is very, very tight.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Most business travelers who want to get an expedited appointment are very likely going to have to use the paid route because their criteria is not going to be able to fit the emergency route.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: But even for personal travel, um, for things like a funeral or medical care not available outside the United States or not available in the person's home country, those people can usually still get expedited appointments.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: But if you're going for like a graduation or for a child's birth, those are likely to be denied.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So your real option there is that paid expedite.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the emergency one is like, you know, for a funeral, for healthcare service, something more serious that is, you know, a lot beyond your control, where it goes like, right, you motion.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where in a graduation you knew was coming, you could have the appointment.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: And for this$150 fee, you don't have to cite any sort of reason.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: So it's just, hey, I'm gonna pay the$750, I'm gonna get a dashboard, that is gonna give me the next 10 days of appointments that are available.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get say if they're open.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're gonna get an appointment at least within the next 10 days.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: What if there isn't an appointment within the next 10 days?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Say so many people decide to take advantage of this system.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: What happened?
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Or is it too new to know?
34:35
SPEAKER_00: It's very new.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, counselor officers have been told that if uh the those appointments get oversubscribed, they need to add new ones.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: So uh I would say check back again.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would also say like technical issues happen.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh if anybody, you know, listening to this has interacted with uh the US appointment, US visa appointment system in any way, they will know it's not perfect.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very, very finicky.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: There are certain tips and tricks to try to get it to do what you want it to do.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but sometimes it just goes down.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you'll probably need to try again.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: Now, I will speculate that it's, you know, a lot of people may do this.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Could we see a price increase for this?
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I think that it's it's too new to say, first of all, but I think$750, because uh it's multiple countries, it's not just Canada that is doing it, and you don't, you know, it's it's it's hard to pick a number that is premium but doesn't price entire countries out of the market.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: So it they, you know, I think from a business standpoint, you want it to be accessible.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I think more likely, if it's oversubscribed, then you'll simply see more appointments available and and and for the uh the paid expedite route.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you don't do the paid expedite route, where before it was fixed to nine months, now it becomes 18 to 24 months to get a regular appointment, which again pushes more people to the expedite round.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because there's only so many hours in the day, so many days in the week, right?
36:11
SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna have so many people sign up, that inevitably is gonna push the non-expedite appointments further down.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: The compiler isn't gonna get twice as big, and there's not gonna be twice as many officers doing it.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, what countries are doing this?
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh right now it's a handful of countries just in the Western Hemisphere.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Canada and Mexico are the two biggest ones.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And then uh there are a handful in Central and South America.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: If you had someone ask you, I'm about to go for my consular interview, what are the top three things that matter that I should really address in this interview?
36:48
SPEAKER_01: What would you say?
36:49
SPEAKER_00: The top three things are likely um, why do you want to go to the United States?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: What, what is your purpose of travel?
36:56
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, to try to expand on that a bit, not just I want to see Disneyland, but like what is it you plan to do there?
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Put your vacation in context.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: I haven't had a vacation in X number of years.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: This is a big thing for my family.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I want my child to see it, et cetera, et cetera.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: The second issue, and really the biggest question uh of all is what's going to bring you back?
37:19
SPEAKER_00: What's going to get you to leave the United States?
37:22
SPEAKER_00: What is it that you have to come back to?
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And that could be, yeah, it's going to be different for everybody, but it could be a job, it could be family ties, it could be um social needs, it could be academic.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're in school and you need to get back for a class or a test or whatever.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you need to be able to articulate that in such a way.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes you even put it in the sense of like, I'm doing this trip, but it's really more of a burden than something I'm looking forward to.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I have to fit this trip in between these dates because I really have to get back for whatever.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: And that, I if you think about it, a lot of trips are like that, right?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Even vacation trips.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Like you really have to squeeze it between these days.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: So explaining that to the consular officer is really helpful.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the last thing is just to try to bring your, you know, your sense of positivity and good humor.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Like try to relax as much as you can, try to talk in naturally as much as you can.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Don't uh memorize answers, don't over overpractice.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, don't rehearse what you're saying because whatever you say will then downrehears and will therefore sound less honest, less forthright.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but just talk to them as if you're talking to a colleague or a friend or a relative, especially when you're talking about something that is specific to you, like your job or your academic background, um, because you can't assume whatever the console officer's background is that they're going to understand where you're coming from.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you need to explain it to them.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: So try to try to practice explaining it to somebody who um who you know but isn't intimately involved with whatever it is you do.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a scientist, you don't talk to another scientist, you talk to, you know, uh a relative or a layperson, some somebody outside of that field.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like explain it to Sonia who knows nothing about your profession.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then what are things that don't matter?
39:18
SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing that does not matter, and it's really hard for visa applicants to understand and to get through, because I mean, to be fair, the US is a lot different from most other countries, um, is documents.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to bring a piece of paper.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: And psychologically, it can be very comforting to have a piece of paper that's either written by a lawyer, or maybe it's say it's a vital document, maybe it's uh marriage certificate, maybe it's the um title to your house or your car, maybe it's a letter from your employer.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Consulate officers are trained specifically to disregard the vast majority of documents for a couple reasons.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: The first one is that in most of the countries around the world, if I as a consular officer ask you for a document, tomorrow you're gonna come back with that document.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: Might not be true, might not say anything of value, but if you if we ask for a document, you're gonna get a document.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: So we're just asking for people to generate fraudulent documents because it happens over and over again.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: The other reason is because even if the document is true, how does it answer the question?
40:30
SPEAKER_00: If you're dead set on immigrating illegally to the United States, how is your car title gonna deter you?
40:39
SPEAKER_00: People leave cars all the time, they leave jobs.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, they leave families, or they make it a plan that I'm going to go first and then I'm gonna try to get my family to come later.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't really answer the question.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: You're not handcuffed to anything, and nothing's going to stop you.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And and one of those documents that that is, I think, the most famous of these documents is like a letter of invitation.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Somebody from the United States, a pastor, an employer, a friend, uh, you know, a colleague, et cetera, has written something saying, I invite this person to come, I'm gonna take care of all their expenses, and I guarantee they're going to leave.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, A, if you guarantee all their expenses, then maybe they don't have any funds to be able to take care of their expenses, so that makes me worried.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: And B, you can't guarantee they're gonna leave.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: You just don't have the ability to do that.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's really not worth it to even bring.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: We recommend that people bring the minimum of documents.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's fine to bring a document in a folder tucked away.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, if there is something that the consular officer asks that you have supported by a document, it's fine to say, can answer the question and say, I have a document if you want to see it.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Don't shove documents through the window.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Don't slap them on top of the window.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, because then it looks, it looks like a shield.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want to talk to you.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: I want to hand you this document.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And that again, you know, uh disrupts the interview and makes it look like you're afraid to talk to the console officer.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to the time, right?
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Like you only have how many minutes?
42:14
SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna go through a hundred documents and not be able to ask you the questions they need to ask.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: No, the console officer is not gonna sit there and read a five-page uh letter from your lawyer about why you're qualified for a visa.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: Like they're just not gonna do it.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's not helpful.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: So I'm preparing a US consultant interview application.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: What is a realistic approach I should take to that preparation?
42:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would start by um by pulling up the visa application itself, assuming you know what kind of visa category you want to apply for, pull up the visa application and start going through it.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: The visa application is a lengthy process.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't have to be finished all at once so you can spend your time going through it.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: And as you're going through it, you're gonna see a lot of questions that um some of which may apply to you and some won't, some of which may involve uh negative interactions you may have had prior immigration issues, criminal issues, et cetera.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you know you're gonna have to say yes to some of those, you're gonna have to think about how you're going to answer those uh verbally to the officer.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, you're gonna put together, you know, as you're going through this application, you're gonna put together like, how do I present all of this verbally?
43:30
SPEAKER_00: Because that's really what you need to keep in mind.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: That that this application is not the replacement for that interview.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: It it comes in tandem with that interview.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: It's somewhat tangential to the interview.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you're gonna have to think about how you're going to use that three or four minutes of time the best you possibly can.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that can be as simple as talking to a friend or thinking it over in your head.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, some people need more help.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: They need somebody to be able to check themselves a little bit, to be able to challenge their assumptions.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and some people need uh professional help.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: When you make a visa application, say a visitor visa application, is there slots to upload all these additional documents, or is it just the form and like the required documents if there's police clearances or anything like that?
44:18
SPEAKER_00: No well, for non-immigrant visas for people who are not permanently immigrating to the United States, there is no opportunity to upload documents.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: Um and it goes back to the what I said before about documents not being uh primary to the interviewer.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: There are opportunities to give explanation, usually in some of those negative circumstances uh questions that I was talking about.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: But what you want to do when you're when you're filling those out is be very, very careful about how long and detailed you're making those answers.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: Keep them short, keep them to the point.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: The concert officer will probably read those, but scan those very quickly.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: But it's not going to be the answer that you have to that question.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: The answer that you have to that question is gonna come verbally and should come verbally during the visa interview itself.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Make it a placeholder or make it an a way to open up the conversation.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you're not gonna go at 9:29 a.m.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: I was called over, and 10.30, I had to do a breathalizer.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, you're just gonna say I was, you know, I was charged with a DUI, it was expunged or whatever happened, and then the rest comes at the interview.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: And you know, and it's nice to actually say at the end of that, and I look forward to talking about it.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: That's a good tip.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you, Ian, so much.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, the U.S.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: consulate interview can be incredibly intimidating.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: But I think the most useful thing is to take the mystery out of it.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: The officer's not there to have a personal argument with you, they're there to make a decision based on the immigration laws, the information that they have available, and the interview that you give.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: So don't focus on trying to figure out if the officer likes you or not, but focus on the accuracy of that information and the information that you want to get across to the officer.
46:07
SPEAKER_01: If there's a negative issue in your background, don't ignore it.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: Don't panic.
46:11
SPEAKER_01: Just understand it and be able to explain it.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sonia Siddu, and this has been Border Venture.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: If you found this episode helpful, please make sure you follow the podcast and share it with someone who's preparing for a US visa interview, especially someone who thinks the interview is going to be an interrogation.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes the best preparation is simply knowing what the interview is and what it isn't.
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Until next time.