Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The Car Bomb Mystery | Tina Kemp

Transcript

The Car Bomb Mystery | Tina Kemp · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Appoch Production.
0:14
Speaker 2: Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
0:17
Speaker 2: Adam Shand. Let's talk about a murder mystery Today. August third,
0:22
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, a small businessman in the motor trade,
0:26
Speaker 2: Gianni John Ferlan, was on his way to work in
0:29
Speaker 2: Melbourne's North. The forty eight year old was driving his
0:33
Speaker 2: white Suberu Liberty sedan north along Lawrenceon Avenue near Merlinston
0:38
Speaker 2: Railway station when it exploded. The force of the explosion
0:45
Speaker 2: killed John instantly, catapaulting his vehicle fifteen meters down the road,
0:49
Speaker 2: shattering nearby shop windows and spraying debris over three hundred
0:53
Speaker 2: meters away. The power of the blast breaking windows of
0:56
Speaker 2: houses and shops along the quiet street, but miraculously nobody
1:01
Speaker 2: else was physically injured. At first, it was thought to
1:05
Speaker 2: be an accident, an exploding LPG tank perhaps, but Furlin's
1:09
Speaker 2: car didn't run on gas. He'd been killed with a
1:13
Speaker 2: huge car bomb. A deadly car bombing in Melbourne's North
1:17
Speaker 2: remains one of Australia's most baffling unsolved mysteries. That murder
1:22
Speaker 2: is still unsolved all these years later. Victoria Police have
1:27
Speaker 2: recently increased a one hundred thousand dollars reward to one
1:31
Speaker 2: million dollars for information about who was responsible.
1:34
Speaker 3: Senior police say they're refusing to give up until those
1:37
Speaker 3: responsible are brought to justice.
1:40
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Arson and Explosive detective Tina Kemp reviewed
1:45
Speaker 2: the case and knows more about it than anyone else
1:47
Speaker 2: who wasn't involved in it. It's a case that she
1:50
Speaker 2: can't let go, and I'm pleased to welcome her into
1:53
Speaker 2: the real crime studio, can I? Tina?
1:56
Speaker 1: Adam? How are you good?
1:57
Speaker 2: Thanks? Of all the cases you covered in your career,
1:59
Speaker 2: this one I think is the one that you've always
2:02
Speaker 2: felt was left incomplete, correct.
2:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are so many more avenues of inquiry to
2:09
Speaker 3: cover some of the bases. It's just one of those
2:12
Speaker 3: ones that doesn't have a clear motive, and that's been
2:15
Speaker 3: really tricky to navigate through that.
2:18
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think you once said that it was like
2:20
Speaker 2: being given a book without the final chapters.
2:24
Speaker 3: Correct, And even some of the chapters in between are
2:27
Speaker 3: missing as well, and you just have to find which Well,
2:30
Speaker 3: sometimes you've given chapters are not even relevant, so you've
2:32
Speaker 3: got to work out which ones belonging the book and
2:34
Speaker 3: which ones don't even so. It's quite a bit to
2:38
Speaker 3: this one, but it's really interesting and I was thoroughly
2:42
Speaker 3: engaged and enjoyed working on it, and at times I thought, God,
2:45
Speaker 3: I can't believe I'm getting paid to do this is fabulous.
2:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been nice if you were able
2:50
Speaker 2: to put some people behind bars. There's still a possibility
2:52
Speaker 2: of it, because there are still suspects out there in
2:55
Speaker 2: this murder, and it is a very tricky one because
3:01
Speaker 2: the motive is not clear. John Ferlin was not an
3:04
Speaker 2: underworld figure. He was a small businessman. He had his
3:07
Speaker 2: normal range of disputes and issues with people, but nothing
3:12
Speaker 2: that seemed to amount to a motive for murder. And
3:15
Speaker 2: there is this sort of cast of characters we really
3:18
Speaker 2: should work through before we get too much further. The
3:20
Speaker 2: main suspect that you were presented with was a fellow
3:23
Speaker 2: called Domenico Italiano, who was a half pied gangster from Carlton.
3:29
Speaker 2: His grandfather had been reputed to be the head of
3:32
Speaker 2: the Italian mafia back in the fifties, but Domenico was
3:36
Speaker 2: not of the same milk whatsoever. He was more of
3:37
Speaker 2: a con man and he was operating what I believed
3:40
Speaker 2: to be illegal car raffles back in the day where
3:44
Speaker 2: there would raffle a car in a bogus raffle, and
3:47
Speaker 2: really it was a way of selling a vehicle to
3:49
Speaker 2: somebody at a cheap price and pretend that it was
3:53
Speaker 2: the winnings of a raffle. Have I got that right?
3:56
Speaker 3: Yes, from I didn't delve in too much into the
3:58
Speaker 3: raffle side of things that had already been written off earlier.
4:02
Speaker 3: But in your previous inquiry so that you pinpointed that
4:07
Speaker 3: John had actually been offered a car in amongst that
4:10
Speaker 3: to pay a debt back to Dominica Taliano. So that
4:14
Speaker 3: sort of changes things in that respect as well.
4:17
Speaker 2: Because John had a car yard next to his house
4:19
Speaker 2: there on Sydney Road in Coburg, and Italiano was leasing
4:24
Speaker 2: that car yard, and of course he fell behind in
4:26
Speaker 2: the rent and there was a dispute over that. And
4:30
Speaker 2: the theory that you investigated was that this bogus raffle
4:34
Speaker 2: was going to be he was going to become the
4:36
Speaker 2: winner John was in lieu of the rent that he owed,
4:39
Speaker 2: at least Taliano owed.
4:42
Speaker 1: Yes.
4:42
Speaker 3: I believe that specific aspect was something that you uncovered
4:45
Speaker 3: when you were looking at it yourself a while back.
4:48
Speaker 3: We certainly did look at the raffles, and we looked
4:50
Speaker 3: at the broken lease on the car yard next to
4:53
Speaker 3: his place.
4:54
Speaker 1: There was a whole.
4:55
Speaker 3: Host of things that we did look at, and to me,
4:57
Speaker 3: it seems with Dominique Taliano, it wasn't perhaps just the
5:00
Speaker 3: one thing, but it was that Furlan had become a
5:03
Speaker 3: bit of a thorn in his side in a number
5:05
Speaker 3: of ways. He owed him money, you know, they'd broken Carli's,
5:08
Speaker 3: he was trying to get another caryard.
5:09
Speaker 1: Maybe that raffle came into it.
5:11
Speaker 3: And yeah, so I think he'd just become a little
5:14
Speaker 3: bit of thorny's side and thought that perhaps life was
5:17
Speaker 3: easier for dominic if John Ferlan.
5:19
Speaker 2: Wasn't in it, well if he killed him. And I
5:21
Speaker 2: think that was the problem for police, that none of
5:23
Speaker 2: these things seemed to amount to a substantial enough motive
5:26
Speaker 2: for murder. And there were other issues apparently that Ferlin
5:29
Speaker 2: had given up Italiano to fair trading over these raffles,
5:33
Speaker 2: and also some other dodgy stuff that Italiana was doing
5:36
Speaker 2: in the car trade.
5:38
Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct, and John Ferlin had been charged and
5:41
Speaker 3: find himself. I didn't think it was a massive amount,
5:43
Speaker 3: maybe eight hundred dollar fine or something thereabouts. I think nineties.
5:47
Speaker 3: I'd have to go back to the file if I
5:49
Speaker 3: had it. In ninety six ninety seven thereabouts, it was
5:52
Speaker 3: reported who particularly annoyed that others such as.
5:54
Speaker 1: Italiano and other people were still.
5:57
Speaker 3: Doing similar sort of things and getting away with it,
5:58
Speaker 3: and that rubbed him the wrong way. So apparently became
6:01
Speaker 3: quite a nuisance by ringing almost weekly or perhaps even
6:05
Speaker 3: more to make complaints about these people, and subsequently charges.
6:10
Speaker 1: Were laid or fines. There was one I'm aware of that.
6:13
Speaker 3: Italiano had somebody else to take the fall for him
6:15
Speaker 3: on that one, and that was worth about fifteen grand.
6:17
Speaker 3: So we're talking, you know, late sort of ninety so
6:20
Speaker 3: that's a fair wack of money back then. And his
6:23
Speaker 3: own company, Moldenfield Proprietary Limited, they were also fine. And
6:27
Speaker 3: if you look through the list back then, there are
6:29
Speaker 3: a few companies that italianas associates were involved in those companies,
6:34
Speaker 3: and so I think that's sort of another area as well. Well.
6:38
Speaker 2: I try and you mentioned that Ferland was a thorn
6:40
Speaker 2: in the side of Italiano. I think Ferloon need though
6:44
Speaker 2: he wasn't a crook, but he was a bit of hotthead,
6:46
Speaker 2: wasn't he? What sort of person was he?
6:49
Speaker 3: My understanding was a bit of a hot head and
6:50
Speaker 3: a hard businessman, very loyal to his friends. But you know,
6:55
Speaker 3: there might be some smallish kind of issues with he
6:58
Speaker 3: might sell something that was reconditioned as perhaps better condition
7:02
Speaker 3: or knewer than it was. You know, nothing overly massive
7:06
Speaker 3: that wouldn't go on in a lot of those kind
7:08
Speaker 3: of businesses. I did look into, and other investigators looked
7:12
Speaker 3: into whether he did have some sort of criminal activities
7:15
Speaker 3: going on. I know the registration of the vehicle that
7:18
Speaker 3: he was killed while striving was registered in the country,
7:22
Speaker 3: and it kind of seemed a very back door way
7:24
Speaker 3: of getting it registered because it was an imported car
7:27
Speaker 3: from Japan that shouldn't have been registered in Australia because
7:30
Speaker 3: it didn't comply with the standards here. But somehow at
7:33
Speaker 3: this country vic Rood's office, the number of the engine
7:37
Speaker 3: the number vehicle identification number was entered with a number
7:41
Speaker 3: of digits that suited Australia's system. But if it had
7:45
Speaker 3: been entered in I think there were seventeen digits in
7:48
Speaker 3: one or the other can't remember which way it went
7:50
Speaker 3: now with nine digits were required, but he's had seventeen
7:54
Speaker 3: or vice versa. So that ended up allowing the car
7:57
Speaker 3: to be registered here when it really shouldn't been. It
7:58
Speaker 3: should have only been used for parts. So then I
8:01
Speaker 3: was looking at did he have a little bit of
8:03
Speaker 3: a scam going with that kind of thing? He also
8:06
Speaker 3: is a drugs involved I mean that's also always a
8:09
Speaker 3: thing we look at, you know, are they importing drugs
8:11
Speaker 3: inside these vehicles? Because dominicantly, Taliano and Ferlin used to
8:16
Speaker 3: both be at the car auctions. They would see each
8:19
Speaker 3: other at those sort of locations as well, so I thought, well,
8:22
Speaker 3: are they up to something more that is behind the
8:25
Speaker 3: scenes that we.
8:26
Speaker 1: Just don't know about. But I could never really find.
8:28
Speaker 3: That he was up to anything illegally in that way
8:31
Speaker 3: that could have cost.
8:31
Speaker 2: Him his life, because I think there was one avenue
8:34
Speaker 2: of an inquiry where I know in Melbourne there was
8:36
Speaker 2: a lot of heroin dealing going on through used car
8:39
Speaker 2: lots where people would deliver heroin around Melbourne using cars
8:43
Speaker 2: from lots, and I think that was looked at at
8:45
Speaker 2: one moment, but it didn't seem to pan out.
8:48
Speaker 3: Correct and also rebirthing vehicles that was pretty big back
8:51
Speaker 3: then as well, stolen vehicles that would be altered and
8:56
Speaker 3: you know, in a chop shop sort of thing, and
8:58
Speaker 3: whether he had been involved in that sort of thing
9:00
Speaker 3: as well, But we couldn't really establish anything like that.
9:04
Speaker 1: So in the end, it seems that he was just
9:07
Speaker 1: a small businessman.
9:08
Speaker 3: That wouldn't be like anybody else that walks down the
9:10
Speaker 3: street that you would probably meet not thinking twice about.
9:14
Speaker 1: So that part is really puzzling.
9:15
Speaker 3: The motive and whether it's just that whole mixed bag
9:18
Speaker 3: of things that really annoyed Italio and getting focus on
9:21
Speaker 3: him when if he was up to something dodgy himself.
9:24
Speaker 1: He's not going to want attention from anybody.
9:27
Speaker 2: And that was the challenge for investigators, wasn't it, Because
9:30
Speaker 2: massive facts, some minor motivations, no conclusive evidence, so very
9:37
Speaker 2: difficult to proceed. And when you look at the circumstances
9:39
Speaker 2: of the bombing, the car had been parked at Ferlin's
9:43
Speaker 2: house on Sydney Road, Coburg over the weekend while he'd
9:46
Speaker 2: gone to Tasmania for fishing, so one would presume the
9:50
Speaker 2: bomb was planted at that time.
9:53
Speaker 3: I believe so they would have had easy access to
9:56
Speaker 3: the vehicle at that point. Nobody was staying at the
9:59
Speaker 3: house while John was in Tasmania, and there's a lane
10:02
Speaker 3: way at the back of the house that I would
10:05
Speaker 3: think would be fairly easy access to get over that.
10:08
Speaker 3: And I'm aware that one of the back doors wasn't
10:11
Speaker 3: locking properly either in the vehicle, so they wouldn't even
10:13
Speaker 3: need to break in as such, they just try the doors.
10:16
Speaker 3: And they had been doing surveillance, so maybe they might
10:18
Speaker 3: have even been aware of some of that minor.
10:20
Speaker 1: Detail as well, so they once so inside the yard.
10:24
Speaker 3: The yard had a really high fence at the front
10:27
Speaker 3: and still to this day as far as I know,
10:29
Speaker 3: high fence, high gates or timber so you can't see through,
10:32
Speaker 3: So they would have had a nice little protected area
10:35
Speaker 3: from anybody.
10:36
Speaker 1: Seeing what they were up to.
10:38
Speaker 2: And there was a number of cigarette butts found at
10:41
Speaker 2: the scene, which I believe that you discovered in the exhibits,
10:44
Speaker 2: and I think they've been compared on DNA databases and
10:47
Speaker 2: so forth and really haven't come up with any matches.
10:51
Speaker 1: That's great.
10:52
Speaker 3: Well, as far as I know, two of them have
10:54
Speaker 3: John Fillin's profile were matched to two of them, and
10:57
Speaker 3: maybe some partials on some of the other. And I
10:59
Speaker 3: did request further testing, and I think Jeff Marr recently
11:03
Speaker 3: mentioned that they were sort of being retested again, and
11:05
Speaker 3: I had tried to and it might be that they
11:08
Speaker 3: regularly do that run that through anyway on these sort
11:11
Speaker 3: of major unsolves, but nothing of interest as far as.
11:15
Speaker 1: Who might have been in the yard. But I had
11:17
Speaker 1: always wanted to perhaps.
11:19
Speaker 3: Put out a call, and you know, this is not
11:22
Speaker 3: something that I'd run past the bosses as far as
11:25
Speaker 3: put out a bit of a call to his friends
11:26
Speaker 3: and family who would have been in the front yard smoking.
11:29
Speaker 3: They knew that they were in the art smoking and
11:31
Speaker 3: volunteer their DNA so that they could be identified at
11:34
Speaker 3: least and not one hundred percent eliminated. They could be
11:38
Speaker 3: involved who we don't know, but at least it might
11:40
Speaker 3: narrow down who contributed to those cigarette butts on the ground, right.
11:45
Speaker 2: And Jeff Marr was your senior sergeant back at Arsenal
11:47
Speaker 2: and Explosives. He's now working at the Academy, still involved
11:51
Speaker 2: in this case, helping out. And again it's one of
11:53
Speaker 2: those cases that just defies solution. It stays in people's minds. Now.
11:58
Speaker 2: The interesting thing about the way the bomb is detonated
12:01
Speaker 2: is I understand it was that it wasn't a timing device,
12:04
Speaker 2: it wasn't a pressure device. It had to be detonated
12:08
Speaker 2: manually with a line of sight. And there were two vehicles,
12:13
Speaker 2: one red land cruise I believe or missing patrol that
12:17
Speaker 2: was seen in the area before the day and on
12:19
Speaker 2: the day, and there was a guy driving it who
12:22
Speaker 2: had a very particular eagle tattoo on one forearm. This
12:25
Speaker 2: was seen and I guess it was believed that this
12:28
Speaker 2: one might have detonated the bomb.
12:31
Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct.
12:32
Speaker 3: And he does appear throughout the investigation and turns up
12:35
Speaker 3: again after as far as the inquiries goes. He even
12:38
Speaker 3: inserts himself into the whole inquiry by attending at St.
12:43
Speaker 3: Kildo Police Complex, which was the headquarters for the crime
12:45
Speaker 3: department back then. Yet very interesting character. I didn't get
12:49
Speaker 3: to meet him, unfortunately. He committed suicide a few weeks
12:52
Speaker 3: after his last contact with Jeff mar And he would
12:56
Speaker 3: confess to all sorts of things then sometimes retract that.
13:00
Speaker 3: But then if he did scratch around and have a
13:02
Speaker 3: bit of a look to try and corroborate things. Sometimes
13:05
Speaker 3: some of the most amazing things that he was confessing
13:08
Speaker 3: to were actually real. I give you the main example
13:12
Speaker 3: was he put his hand up for a bombing that
13:15
Speaker 3: he did at a house in Flemington that I think
13:18
Speaker 3: was probably requested or orchestrated by these same people.
13:21
Speaker 1: Behind this bomb.
13:23
Speaker 3: But he also someone very close to him had committed
13:25
Speaker 3: a murder and he helped dispose of the body as
13:29
Speaker 3: in this particular fellow, and he phoned police and said,
13:33
Speaker 3: if you go out to this particular freeway on the
13:36
Speaker 3: side of the freeway, you'll find a body. And in
13:38
Speaker 3: the end they had to have a couple of looks
13:40
Speaker 3: and they finally found it. He ended up getting charged
13:43
Speaker 3: for well, the other person got charged with murder and
13:46
Speaker 3: he got charged with helping dispose of the body. So
13:48
Speaker 3: you can't just sort of dismiss any of his claims
13:51
Speaker 3: because sometimes they were really good information.
13:55
Speaker 2: You're talking about Philip Lander, also known as Philip Matthews,
13:59
Speaker 2: and he was a young man I think he was
14:01
Speaker 2: nineteen at the time or twenty when this car bomb detonated,
14:04
Speaker 2: And you're right, it comes in two thousand and four
14:07
Speaker 2: to the police unannounced and says I killed John Ferland
14:11
Speaker 2: and this doesn't happen. A walk up start to a
14:14
Speaker 2: confession like this just simply doesn't happen. And Jeff Maher
14:17
Speaker 2: it was your boss, interviewed him and some parts of
14:21
Speaker 2: his evidence were very compelling. Others were doubtful, and it
14:25
Speaker 2: led them to overall have doubts about him. You were
14:28
Speaker 2: reading about him in the file and when you mentioned
14:32
Speaker 2: the murder there, of course, this was a murder committed
14:35
Speaker 2: by his twin brother. Correct, Yes, so he ends up
14:40
Speaker 2: giving up his twin brother for a murder. This boy
14:43
Speaker 2: liked to confess.
14:45
Speaker 3: And I don't know if that was something that he
14:48
Speaker 3: would be involved with these things, but then he'd be
14:51
Speaker 3: a little bit at odds with himself on what he'd
14:54
Speaker 3: done and what to come clean.
14:55
Speaker 1: It was with this one.
14:57
Speaker 3: With John Ferlan's murder, it was like he wanted to
14:59
Speaker 3: get it off his chest. And you know, I don't
15:02
Speaker 3: know his motivation for committing suicide where this was part
15:05
Speaker 3: of it and it was just the guilt factor and
15:07
Speaker 3: maybe other things that he'd done. But I also think
15:09
Speaker 3: he and his brother were raised in the school of
15:11
Speaker 3: hard knocks, so that I think there's a lot of
15:13
Speaker 3: demons in there. For him, and it's funny, but I
15:17
Speaker 3: kind of got to like him a little bit, almost
15:19
Speaker 3: like he was the underdog, which is kind of weird.
15:21
Speaker 3: I've not really felt that towards anybody else that I've investigated,
15:25
Speaker 3: or certainly.
15:26
Speaker 1: That's got a criminal history like his.
15:28
Speaker 3: But it was almost like I wanted him to sort
15:31
Speaker 3: of be able to offload this and succeed. But you know,
15:33
Speaker 3: already by the time I was anywhere near the file,
15:36
Speaker 3: he was long gone.
15:38
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because he does commit suicide weeks after
15:42
Speaker 2: he turns up and kill or rode police headquarters, and
15:45
Speaker 2: even the manner of his death if you're a conspiracy theorist,
15:49
Speaker 2: could get you excited because he attaches a hose from
15:52
Speaker 2: his car exhaust into the vehicle and gases himself like that,
15:57
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, if you're a conspiracy theorist, as
15:59
Speaker 2: I say, you might say, well, maybe he was killed
16:01
Speaker 2: to cover up his confessions, to stop him giving more
16:04
Speaker 2: d tale.
16:06
Speaker 3: Yes, And that's something that would have been looked at
16:08
Speaker 3: it at the time, given the involvement that he'd had
16:11
Speaker 3: in this matter, and just is you know, in other
16:14
Speaker 3: matters that he'd been involved in and the type of
16:16
Speaker 3: people that he mixed with and mingled with. He could
16:20
Speaker 3: easily have been the target of somebody, but there was
16:23
Speaker 3: nothing established in that respect. It was a non suspicious
16:28
Speaker 3: action that I believe he committed suicide.
16:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, the toxicology didn't show any sedatives or anything else.
16:34
Speaker 2: He might have been compelled to kill himself, not that.
16:37
Speaker 1: I'm aware of.
16:38
Speaker 3: I did read the autopsy results in that, but I
16:41
Speaker 3: don't recall anything other than just the whole situation with
16:45
Speaker 3: the car.
16:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think if there had been anything that suggested
16:49
Speaker 2: foul play, your bosses would have been strayed on too.
16:52
Speaker 2: I mean, Jeff mar being one of the best homicide
16:54
Speaker 2: detectives in the state, he would have been right onto this.
16:56
Speaker 2: But nothing was found, so that had to be so
16:59
Speaker 2: frustrating because there the evidence seemed to stop. And for instance,
17:03
Speaker 2: he did talk about other explosive detonators at a property
17:09
Speaker 2: up in the country. He did talk about bearing detonators,
17:14
Speaker 2: explosives and other items in the country somewhere there yet
17:17
Speaker 2: to be found, and that could be critical evidence to
17:19
Speaker 2: standing up what he did tell police in the past
17:22
Speaker 2: that he was the bomber.
17:23
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I believe that that those items were there
17:27
Speaker 3: at some stage. I mean, the investigations earlier did establish
17:31
Speaker 3: that he went out to a particular location near where
17:33
Speaker 3: he lived many years ago, and he spent time at
17:37
Speaker 3: that location, and we did I was involved too with
17:41
Speaker 3: a search. We had ground penetrating radar, we had drug dogs,
17:45
Speaker 3: explosive dogs to try and establish where that was. And
17:49
Speaker 3: at one stage I got very excited because I found
17:51
Speaker 3: this nice area there and we thought, oh, we're onto
17:55
Speaker 3: something here. But in the end it was just pushing
17:57
Speaker 3: and mounding for where they bopped off the track for vehicles.
18:00
Speaker 1: But I was so hoping that we would find something there.
18:03
Speaker 3: But it's often crossed my mind just to go out
18:06
Speaker 3: as a little bit of a you know, a member
18:09
Speaker 3: of the public and just have a bit of a
18:10
Speaker 3: poke around if it's not there. I think it was,
18:13
Speaker 3: and that's where some people will know. The friends of
18:16
Speaker 3: his and I think even his brother were aware of
18:20
Speaker 3: what was there, as Phil Matthews himself said that there
18:23
Speaker 3: were things in there, like maps of where he was
18:26
Speaker 3: supposed to do the surveillance on Ferlin. There were explosive
18:29
Speaker 3: leftover Balaclavi's and you know, all sorts of things. A
18:33
Speaker 3: good little crooks kit and that'd be magnificent to be
18:37
Speaker 3: able to find.
18:38
Speaker 2: Well, because you'd probably have DNA on there as well.
18:42
Speaker 2: And you could, of course, you've got his twin brother
18:45
Speaker 2: who's still alive. You could compare the DNA to him
18:47
Speaker 2: and say, well, this is Phil Matthew's little cachet.
18:51
Speaker 3: Yes, And that was going just briefly back to the
18:53
Speaker 3: cigarette butts. That was something I thought, Oh, I wonder
18:56
Speaker 3: if any of these cigarette butts were Phil Matthews and thought, oh,
18:59
Speaker 3: only he had an evil twin brother who already had
19:02
Speaker 3: his profile on the system. And I was like, oh, okay,
19:05
Speaker 3: maybe not evil. That's probably well, I don't know, he's committed.
19:08
Speaker 2: For so I think we can call him out.
19:11
Speaker 3: He's committed murder, so he's probably not squeaky clean, and
19:14
Speaker 3: you know, he's an identical twin And unfortunately there there
19:17
Speaker 3: was no match there.
19:18
Speaker 2: So that was always the challenge to connect Philip Matthews
19:22
Speaker 2: with Domenico Italiano, who the theory went, had ordered the murder.
19:27
Speaker 2: And as I talked to people when I've been looking
19:29
Speaker 2: this case over a number of years, I started to
19:31
Speaker 2: get a profile of Matthews as someone who was incredibly
19:35
Speaker 2: willing and wanted to do this wasn't seeking even there's
19:39
Speaker 2: no discussion of money, And I wonder whether there's a
19:43
Speaker 2: discontinuous link between Matthews and Italiano, whereby some people talk
19:49
Speaker 2: to Philip Matthews while he's in jail and say, you
19:52
Speaker 2: could make a name for yourself by blowing up this individual,
19:56
Speaker 2: he goes and does it. It may not have been
19:59
Speaker 2: directly ordered by Italiano, even though he benefited from that.
20:03
Speaker 2: Do you think that's possible.
20:06
Speaker 3: Part of the investigation did look at whether there was
20:10
Speaker 3: talk and we never could quite confirm it whether he
20:13
Speaker 3: actually did the Flemington bombing A is a bit of
20:16
Speaker 3: a run up to this one to show that he
20:18
Speaker 3: could do it and then he would do it, and
20:20
Speaker 3: also that by also confessing to that that was another
20:24
Speaker 3: situation where he's gone in and said, oh, you know,
20:26
Speaker 3: I did that bombing and he ended up being locked
20:29
Speaker 3: up as a result of that. But there was some
20:31
Speaker 3: suggestion that that was so that he could be inside
20:34
Speaker 3: to have the discussion with these two particular people that
20:37
Speaker 3: were already inside, to have that approach made through them.
20:41
Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of an obscure kind of
20:43
Speaker 1: way of going about it.
20:44
Speaker 3: But I did look at those people and they were
20:47
Speaker 3: in prison at the same time, and he gave a
20:49
Speaker 3: location in the prison where that conversation took place. So
20:52
Speaker 3: I checked those units and the floor plan and everything
20:55
Speaker 3: to see if that could have taken place at that location.
20:58
Speaker 1: So we did have a look at that.
21:00
Speaker 2: I've actually corroborated that with another sawce who knew both
21:03
Speaker 2: Ferl and Italiano. Those individuals did have links to Italiano
21:07
Speaker 2: and could well have been the organizers and the urgers
21:10
Speaker 2: for Matthews to do what he did. So it's fascinating
21:13
Speaker 2: and of course we should just go to Italiano to
21:16
Speaker 2: ask him what happened, but we can't because, as luck
21:19
Speaker 2: would have it, he was jailed. In fact, Jeff Maher
21:21
Speaker 2: when he was looking at these dodgy raffles as part
21:23
Speaker 2: of the film and investigation that well, here's some offenses here,
21:26
Speaker 2: and Italiana was charged, went to jail, and when he
21:31
Speaker 2: came out, he decided to visit the wife or girlfriend
21:34
Speaker 2: of his former cell mate, which is a bit cheeky.
21:37
Speaker 2: What happened then, well.
21:40
Speaker 3: My understanding is there was a little blue pill involved
21:42
Speaker 3: with a session with this lady and he died in
21:46
Speaker 3: the process of having an enjoyable afternoon or evening with her.
21:50
Speaker 1: So that was the end of Dominique.
21:53
Speaker 2: Taliano died on the job.
21:55
Speaker 1: Yes, this is a case that just keeps on giving.
21:58
Speaker 3: There some things in it that you you know, it's
22:00
Speaker 3: like stranger than fiction sort of thing. You couldn't make
22:03
Speaker 3: some of this up, or if only an egle twin brother,
22:06
Speaker 3: or this sort of death of the main suspect. So
22:09
Speaker 3: it's like somebody's written it for a TV series, but
22:12
Speaker 3: it's real.
22:15
Speaker 2: And what struck me when I was in Perth, I
22:18
Speaker 2: had a good look at the killing of Don Hancock
22:21
Speaker 2: and he's mate Louis Lewis ex Coppers. That was in
22:24
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, first of September, and the bomb
22:28
Speaker 2: in that case was very, very similar to the bomb
22:32
Speaker 2: that was used to kill John Ferland. The large amount
22:35
Speaker 2: of explosives set under the passenger seat, slightly different mechanism
22:39
Speaker 2: for detonation, but I think there was enough similarities for
22:44
Speaker 2: police and Victoria to go Matt's notes with Western Australia
22:47
Speaker 2: to see if there's still a bomb maker at large somewhere.
22:52
Speaker 1: That's correct.
22:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly didn't go and noticed the similarities and
22:56
Speaker 3: our expert here, John calliher very very experienced and very
23:00
Speaker 3: intelligent man, is probably one of my.
23:02
Speaker 1: Most favorite people in the world.
23:04
Speaker 3: He and his equivalent in Western Australia, they did compare
23:08
Speaker 3: notes a lot. I think Western Australia learned a lot
23:11
Speaker 3: from the way that the investigation was conducted here, and
23:15
Speaker 3: some of those similarities are very very similar that if
23:18
Speaker 3: it's not the same person, you have to think that
23:22
Speaker 3: they had knowledge from that person or some sort of
23:24
Speaker 3: extension of it, because it's there are too many similarities
23:28
Speaker 3: just you know, even to the placement location in the
23:30
Speaker 3: car to be completely coincidental that we just don't have
23:35
Speaker 3: that many of the bombings for it to be too.
23:37
Speaker 1: Out of two kind of thing.
23:39
Speaker 2: And car bombings are very rare in Australia. And if
23:43
Speaker 2: you have skills like this and other people will want
23:45
Speaker 2: to hire you, I think that would be a very
23:47
Speaker 2: reasonable line of inquiries. So that's one of the interesting things.
23:50
Speaker 2: Like Matthews is dead, obviously, Furland's dead, Italiano's dead. Who
23:54
Speaker 2: do we charge now if there's anything coming forth, and
23:57
Speaker 2: you've got a couple of options. If there is the
23:59
Speaker 2: technician who supplied the materials knew how they were going
24:02
Speaker 2: to be used. There's an accessory. And what I find
24:06
Speaker 2: fascinating is that we still have Philip Matthew's ex girlfriend,
24:10
Speaker 2: and we actually doorknocked the street where he used to
24:13
Speaker 2: live and talk to the neighbors who'd been there for
24:16
Speaker 2: a million years, and they said, yes, there was all
24:18
Speaker 2: kinds of funny goings on at that house. There were
24:20
Speaker 2: people coming and going, there was cars, and there was
24:23
Speaker 2: equipment going in and out. So it seems like there
24:25
Speaker 2: was something criminal going on there. And Matthew's girlfriend, while
24:29
Speaker 2: not being involved in it in any way, she was
24:31
Speaker 2: never a suspect, but she will have information that could
24:36
Speaker 2: eventually close this case.
24:37
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it would be wonderful as she would come
24:40
Speaker 3: forward and even Phil's twin brother to finish off what
24:45
Speaker 3: seemed to be trying to do, to offload it from
24:47
Speaker 3: his conscience. And his girlfriend at the time was very staunch,
24:51
Speaker 3: and even after they split up, she still wouldn't divulge
24:54
Speaker 3: much in.
24:54
Speaker 1: The way of information. And there's various reasons that we
24:57
Speaker 1: know she knew more.
24:59
Speaker 3: She was already talking about it being a bombing before
25:03
Speaker 3: it was known to be a bombing. Initially, it was
25:05
Speaker 3: thought to be an LPG tank that had exploded in
25:08
Speaker 3: the vehicle, but the car wasn't fitted with a vehicle.
25:10
Speaker 1: It didn't come out till later in the day.
25:12
Speaker 3: As far as I'm aware that it was actually a
25:14
Speaker 3: bomb that had occurred, but she apparently had been referring
25:17
Speaker 3: to it as a bombing prior to that being known
25:20
Speaker 3: in the public, so that I thought was very interesting.
25:23
Speaker 3: But you know, this has not really come directly from her,
25:26
Speaker 3: but she would be able to provide a lot of information.
25:29
Speaker 3: And also the associates. There's an associate that Phil had
25:33
Speaker 3: back at the time I think would be able to
25:35
Speaker 3: help with some information about Phil and what he was
25:38
Speaker 3: up to, what he was capable of with as far
25:40
Speaker 3: as putting where could he put a bomb together? Would
25:43
Speaker 3: he have known? Would he know where to go and
25:46
Speaker 3: get the resources or get the components that he needed
25:49
Speaker 3: for the bomb? And I think that person is it's
25:53
Speaker 3: probably pretty key as well. The girlfriend, his twin brother,
25:57
Speaker 3: and this particular person I've got in mind, I think
25:59
Speaker 3: could really advance investigation well.
26:02
Speaker 2: And there's one million reasons to come forward now I'd
26:05
Speaker 2: like to keep working out so I can claim the
26:07
Speaker 2: rewards somehow. If there's a way of doing it. And
26:09
Speaker 2: it's funny how there are quite a lot of these
26:11
Speaker 2: million dollar rewards in Victoria. They're very rarely paid out,
26:15
Speaker 2: but I think this one is something that is one
26:17
Speaker 2: that could be paid out. And what would your advice be.
26:21
Speaker 2: Sometimes people are too close to crimes they and they
26:24
Speaker 2: fear that they might be prosecuted as well. But I
26:26
Speaker 2: think if they're lesser offenses, there's usually something that can
26:30
Speaker 2: be done so their information can be used and they
26:33
Speaker 2: can avoid prosecution.
26:35
Speaker 1: That's my understanding of it.
26:37
Speaker 3: I mean to be honest, I get most of my
26:39
Speaker 3: information on that from just TV shows myself. I don't
26:42
Speaker 3: know that much about what is on offering that respect,
26:45
Speaker 3: but I believe they'd be able to come to some
26:47
Speaker 3: agreement and understanding where they'd either not be prosecuted, or
26:51
Speaker 3: there might be lesser charges, or there'd be some trade
26:54
Speaker 3: off where the information that they could provide be more
26:58
Speaker 3: valuable to investigators than them staying silent.
27:02
Speaker 1: So it's certainly something.
27:03
Speaker 3: That would be good for them to discuss and then
27:06
Speaker 3: they can make that informed decision whether they would want
27:08
Speaker 3: to take it any further or not.
27:10
Speaker 2: We'll leave it there, Tina, Thank you so much, for
27:12
Speaker 2: your time today.
27:13
Speaker 1: You're very welcome and good luck with it all.
27:17
Speaker 2: That was Tina Kemp, the detective who reviewed the murder
27:20
Speaker 2: case of John fernand blown up in a car bomb
27:23
Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety eight. There is a million dollars
27:26
Speaker 2: on office, so if you can help in this case,
27:28
Speaker 2: maybe send me an email first. You can also call
27:30
Speaker 2: the police. A crime stoff is one eight hundred, triple three,
27:33
Speaker 2: triple zero. Your information will always be treated as confidential,
27:36
Speaker 2: but you can also email me if you like as well.
27:38
Speaker 2: I'd like to know what happened to myself as with Tina.
27:41
Speaker 2: So Adam Shand writer at gmail dot com, thank you
27:44
Speaker 2: for listening. This has been Real Crime with Adam Shanmed.
27:46
Speaker 2: This is Adam Shand signing off. Thanks for listening.
27:59
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story.
28:02
Speaker 4: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what podcast ape
28:05
Speaker 4: really cares about. Right now, There's thousands of people listening
28:08
Speaker 4: to this show and our other True Crimes and they're
28:11
Speaker 4: completely engaged. More than ten million Australians listen to podcasts
28:14
Speaker 4: each week. If you've ever thought about advertising your business
28:18
Speaker 4: in a podcast, there's a link to reach out in
28:20
Speaker 4: the show notes, or head to podshape dot com to
28:23
Speaker 4: book a free call.