Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Boyfriend charged in pregnant teacher's murder; Should ex-Manson follower go free?

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Boyfriend charged in pregnant teacher's murder; Should ex-Manson follower go free? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: zoom dot com, legal zoom dot com Climb stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two.
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Speaker 1: Montgomery County police have searched Laura Wallon's condo looking for clues.
1:15
Speaker 1: Wallen didn't show up to teach your Social Studies class
1:17
Speaker 1: on Tuesday, the first day of school at wald Leg
1:20
Speaker 1: High I spoke with her on Saturday UM just through
1:23
Speaker 1: text message, and then briefly on Sunday, and then I
1:26
Speaker 1: had one odd text message in the morning on Monday.
1:28
Speaker 1: The missing teacher's father and sister say she was four
1:31
Speaker 1: months pregnant. Totally torn our world apartment. It's like a
1:35
Speaker 1: TV drama that you wished she could shut off, but
1:37
Speaker 1: you can't. Detectives found the body of Laura Wallon in
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Speaker 1: a shallow green. Her body has now been recovered. Tyler Tessier,
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Speaker 1: Mrs Wallon's boyfriend, was arrested for her murder in the
1:49
Speaker 1: last hours. The answer we did not want. After all
1:55
Speaker 1: of us have been reading, researching, praying, commenting, investigating, we
2:03
Speaker 1: learn the body of a beautiful young teacher, Laura Whalen
2:09
Speaker 1: does thirty one years old of old New Maryland, body
2:13
Speaker 1: has been found. Take a listen to what Montgomery County
2:17
Speaker 1: Police say today. Around noon, detectives and members of the
2:22
Speaker 1: Montgomery County Police Search and Rescue Team, we're searching a
2:26
Speaker 1: wooded area near Prices Distillery Road in Damascus. They located
2:32
Speaker 1: a patch of freshly dug ground in a secluded area
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Speaker 1: of a field. Cadaver dogs indicated on the area and
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Speaker 1: ultimately detectives found the body of Laura Wallen. In a
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Speaker 1: shallow grave. Her body has now been recovered. At five
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Speaker 1: thirty pm this afternoon, Tyler Tessier, Mrs Walland's boyfriend, was
2:56
Speaker 1: arrested for her murder. Since Ms Wallon was reported missing
3:01
Speaker 1: by her family nine days ago, we've determined that Mr
3:05
Speaker 1: Tessier was the last person known to have been with
3:09
Speaker 1: the victim. They were seen together on surveillance camera video
3:13
Speaker 1: on Saturday, September two in a grocery store near the
3:17
Speaker 1: victim's home. It is suspected by investigators that she was
3:21
Speaker 1: killed the next day. The victim's sister received texts from
3:27
Speaker 1: Miss Walland's phone on Monday morning, September four. We have
3:31
Speaker 1: determined that these texts were sent by Tyler Tessier, the
3:36
Speaker 1: suspect in this case. Since this investigation began, Mr Tessier
3:41
Speaker 1: has provided information to detectives that led them to suspect
3:46
Speaker 1: his involvement in this case. In addition, Mr Tessier was
3:49
Speaker 1: determined to have driven the victim's car to the Columbia area.
3:53
Speaker 1: He admitted to removing the front tag and disposing of it.
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Speaker 1: Tessier also texted and a quaintance asking for a ride
4:01
Speaker 1: to Baltimore late Sunday night. He said that he needed
4:05
Speaker 1: help to quote to clean up a mess. The acquaintance
4:10
Speaker 1: declined to assist him. Mr Tessier also admitted to disposing
4:15
Speaker 1: of the victims driver's license and her iPhone. The break
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Speaker 1: in this case came when it was determined that Tessier
4:23
Speaker 1: had made several trips to an acquaintance property on Prices
4:28
Speaker 1: Distillery Road in Damascus. Investigators showed up there today with
4:33
Speaker 1: a search warrant for the property, which was a dwelling
4:36
Speaker 1: along with open fields and woods. During the search, the
4:41
Speaker 1: team observed tire tracks on a nearby property. They observed
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Speaker 1: a freshly dug ground on the property, which was some
4:51
Speaker 1: distance from the property that they were originally searching. We
4:54
Speaker 1: spoke with the owner of the property where the ground
4:59
Speaker 1: had been derved, and we were ultimately able to recover
5:03
Speaker 1: the victim's body. The property owner of that property has
5:07
Speaker 1: no involvement with the case. Lawrants for Mr Tessier's arrest
5:11
Speaker 1: were obtained this afternoon and he was taken into custody
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Speaker 1: at around five thirty pm this evening. He's being charged
5:19
Speaker 1: with the murder of Laura Wallen. I want to thank
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Speaker 1: the detectives and all of the members of the public,
5:29
Speaker 1: both here and in Howard County who assisted us with
5:32
Speaker 1: information related to this case. I also want to thank
5:36
Speaker 1: my homicide detectives who worked around the clock on this
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Speaker 1: case and we're able to bring it to closure and
5:46
Speaker 1: in closing, while this arrest does provide some answers, I'm
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Speaker 1: aware of the impact that this had on Miss Willin's
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Speaker 1: community and all it. We know that many of you
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Speaker 1: are grieving with Laura's family tonight, So I'll answer any
6:02
Speaker 1: questions that you might have. Anything in the news conference
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Speaker 1: on Monday in which raised some eyebrows and as you
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Speaker 1: think something was wrong here that would lead you to
6:13
Speaker 1: believe that Tyler tessa Er was a suspect in this
6:16
Speaker 1: case because he did speak to the media, that's correct
6:18
Speaker 1: and UH. The decision to allow him to participate in
6:22
Speaker 1: that news conference was a calculated UH decision made by
6:28
Speaker 1: the detectives in this case for the express purpose of
6:31
Speaker 1: hearing what he had to say. It was done with
6:33
Speaker 1: the approval and knowledge of the victim's fat was in
6:36
Speaker 1: that text message. There was a text message that was
6:39
Speaker 1: said the day that Laura Wallan went missing, you all
6:43
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell us what was in it, but the family
6:45
Speaker 1: said it was troubling. She sent a text message to
6:52
Speaker 1: UM I can't remember if it was her sister or
6:55
Speaker 1: her friend, saying that h. Tyler had taken her to
7:00
Speaker 1: an open field up in the Damascus area. And she says,
7:04
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why we're up here, but he's taken
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Speaker 1: me to this place in the middle of nowhere, something
7:10
Speaker 1: to that effect. That the friends said take a picture.
7:13
Speaker 1: And she did give any indication why he allegedly did this. I,
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Speaker 1: UM can only speculate us to the motive. We don't.
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Speaker 1: We have not gotten any information from him about the
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Speaker 1: motive that case. Fox five was able to confirmed that
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Speaker 1: he living with a woman in Damascus. Has that woman
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Speaker 1: been questioned in this inastigation? She he's actually got three
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Speaker 1: different places where he was uh living. UM, he'd lived
7:43
Speaker 1: three different locations UH typically during during the week. UM.
7:48
Speaker 1: Everyone who he lived with has been interviewed in this case.
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Speaker 1: What led you to to that particular area in which
7:55
Speaker 1: the cadaver dogs then said, you know what, We're gonna
7:58
Speaker 1: look into this, what what why they're We had been
8:01
Speaker 1: able to determine over the past week that he had
8:03
Speaker 1: made several visits um to that area and UM we
8:10
Speaker 1: also determined that he would occasionally or during some period
8:14
Speaker 1: of time and stay there, and so we got a
8:17
Speaker 1: search mark for UH that property which including a dwelling
8:22
Speaker 1: and and quite a bit of wooded area and fields,
8:26
Speaker 1: and the search search team, our search team actually did
8:32
Speaker 1: search the perimeter of those entire woods and at some
8:36
Speaker 1: point noticed tire tracks that went into an area of
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Speaker 1: the woods and followed and that's what led them to
8:42
Speaker 1: the area where we recovered her body. On Mister Tennessere
8:46
Speaker 1: is a suspect to find the press conference on Monday
8:49
Speaker 1: or was still a person of injuries? Um, he was.
8:54
Speaker 1: He was definitely a person of interest. UM. We had
8:57
Speaker 1: already um identified a couple of inconsistencies and information that
9:02
Speaker 1: he had given us. And again it was a calculated
9:05
Speaker 1: decision by the detectives to allow him to speak at
9:08
Speaker 1: that press conference when we were going to be very
9:10
Speaker 1: interested in what he had to say at that press conference.
9:13
Speaker 1: And again it was done with the knowledge and concurrency
9:19
Speaker 1: with the family. They do as well, so the family
9:23
Speaker 1: knew he was a person of interest. Yes, prior to
9:25
Speaker 1: anti can you just clarify the timeline of for instance,
9:28
Speaker 1: that text message that you said that was sent to
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Speaker 1: the friend. What he said September two was the surreillance
9:34
Speaker 1: video at the grocery store. What was that? That was
9:37
Speaker 1: also on September two, UM, which was a Saturday, and
9:41
Speaker 1: then we had nothing, uh, no activity from her phone
9:45
Speaker 1: on Sunday. Uh. And then on Monday morning, UH. I
9:51
Speaker 1: believe it was her sister UM received texts from miss
9:57
Speaker 1: Wallin's phone that we're determined later to have cut that
10:01
Speaker 1: that Tyler was the one up sending those texts. We
10:04
Speaker 1: have been able to confirm that More's disappearance happened around
10:08
Speaker 1: the same time she found out that Tyler was living
10:12
Speaker 1: with this with another woman confirmed that she had known
10:16
Speaker 1: that for some time. Was there any evidence on the
10:18
Speaker 1: body that would give you some kind of a gauge
10:20
Speaker 1: like evidence of god enforced trauma and that there there
10:24
Speaker 1: was not, UM, So we're gonna have to wait for
10:26
Speaker 1: the the autopsy to get that information. We talked all
10:30
Speaker 1: about in this case. I can't talk about motive because
10:34
Speaker 1: I don't know what the motive was. I know that
10:35
Speaker 1: people have speculated um uh, the fact that you know
10:40
Speaker 1: he was in UM another relationship. People talked about the
10:43
Speaker 1: fact that the victim was pregnant. Um, that's that's all speculation,
10:49
Speaker 1: but I don't know what the motive was in this cast.
10:53
Speaker 1: Thank you all very much. Thank you. Joining me is
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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Cases does she Cheryl call Um,
11:00
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of l A. Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Crime
11:04
Speaker 1: Online investigative reporter Lee Egan. Cheryl McCullum, did you hear
11:11
Speaker 1: what police said about why they had the boyfriend speak? Nancy,
11:16
Speaker 1: This was an awesome piece of police work. You and
11:19
Speaker 1: I have talked about it at nauseum that the devil
11:22
Speaker 1: is at the dinner table. This is somebody they knew
11:25
Speaker 1: and trusted. And Nathan, when they allowed him to speak,
11:28
Speaker 1: he literally said a gaping hole. I'm just sick about it.
11:33
Speaker 1: I am sick about it. Dr Bethany Marshall. I mean,
11:37
Speaker 1: when we analyzed it before, I was heartened by the
11:40
Speaker 1: fact the family kept saying they think she's alive and
11:43
Speaker 1: hiding out. I mean, in my mind, I mean I
11:46
Speaker 1: argued with Cheryl when she said that, but I wanted
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Speaker 1: to believe it. Bethany, Well, I did too. But the
11:54
Speaker 1: family knew during the public plea that the boyfriend was
11:58
Speaker 1: a suspect and did see the body language, Nancy. I
12:02
Speaker 1: mean the Laura Wallen's parents are huddled together and the
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Speaker 1: boyfriend is sitting like a foot away from them. He's
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Speaker 1: holding the mother's hand. The father reaches behind the mother
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Speaker 1: and comforts the boyfriend, and during that time, the father
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Speaker 1: knows that the boyfriend is a suspect in his daughter's disappearance.
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Speaker 1: The I I just think the family was so courageous
12:28
Speaker 1: to go along with the police suggestion. And you and
12:32
Speaker 1: I talk so I have talked so much about this
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Speaker 1: over the years. But when a woman is pregnant, she's
12:37
Speaker 1: at the greatest risk for homicide. And during that public
12:42
Speaker 1: pre plea pressor, it wasn't just the parents of Laura
12:46
Speaker 1: Wallen there, it was the potential grandparents of this little baby.
12:51
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine the agony they were experiencing speaking
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Speaker 1: of the boyfriend who was now murder but number one,
12:59
Speaker 1: listen to what police tricked him into saying at the presser. Now,
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Speaker 1: I'd like to ask Laura wall and his boyfriend Mr
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Speaker 1: Tyler Testier to step to the podium to say after
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Speaker 1: you're worth and more, floor's behalf, thank you all for
13:16
Speaker 1: coming here. Um, Laura, if you're listening, it doesn't matter
13:27
Speaker 1: what's happened. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what type
13:34
Speaker 1: of trouble. There's nothing we can't fix together myself and
13:41
Speaker 1: your family. There's so many people, so many people that
13:47
Speaker 1: miss you. There's so many people that were out. We
13:51
Speaker 1: haven't slept, we haven't eaten. We're just looking and we're
13:55
Speaker 1: praying that you're safe. And I'm asking to just let
13:59
Speaker 1: us know that you're safe. If somebody has her, please
14:11
Speaker 1: understand that you've taken away a huge, huge person in
14:15
Speaker 1: so many people's lives, friends and family and students that
14:21
Speaker 1: she has. I know what she means to me, I
14:25
Speaker 1: know what she means to everybody else, and we just
14:28
Speaker 1: want to know if she's okay. We just want her back.
14:35
Speaker 1: Thank you, Lee Egan joining me. Investigative reporter from Crime Online, Lee,
14:42
Speaker 1: what did you make? Actually, let's hear it when they
14:45
Speaker 1: actually ask. A reporter asked the boyfriend a question what
14:51
Speaker 1: she's been like over the last couple of weeks, your
14:54
Speaker 1: interactions with her qu um like Mr Wallin said, she
15:04
Speaker 1: was super excited for the start of the school year.
15:08
Speaker 1: I know she had talked to some her principle and
15:12
Speaker 1: her teachers, like her co workers about um, her being
15:19
Speaker 1: pregnant and how excited she was, and uh, it's just
15:34
Speaker 1: a complete shock that I mean, I think leading up
15:45
Speaker 1: to leading up to the weekend that she's missing. I mean,
15:50
Speaker 1: I don't I don't believe anybody has any inclination to
15:54
Speaker 1: think that something was wrong or m r. Last conversations.
16:03
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, your last conversations with her. I don't know
16:18
Speaker 1: where she is, that's all. I don't know, Like I don't,
16:25
Speaker 1: I know, we're all trying to do everything we can
16:27
Speaker 1: to find her. And I just pray that I pray
16:34
Speaker 1: that she's safe, she comes back. That's all I care
16:38
Speaker 1: about right now. How long have you walked me together?
16:43
Speaker 1: And wrong? How would you really givebout meeting? I'm sorry, lo,
16:48
Speaker 1: have you walk been together? And how long have you
16:50
Speaker 1: all been play any or how did you go about
16:52
Speaker 1: the meeting coming? Lauren? I have known each other probably
16:56
Speaker 1: for ten years now. Um, yeah, we've you know, any
17:05
Speaker 1: normal relationship. Just take one step at a time and
17:10
Speaker 1: you take the progress that comes with you and been
17:16
Speaker 1: the doctor's meetings, We've been sonograms and all the prenatal
17:24
Speaker 1: care that you know you could ask and I'm sorry, Lee,
17:35
Speaker 1: what did you think of that? I thought that it
17:39
Speaker 1: was strange the way he acted. He was more upset
17:43
Speaker 1: and dramatic than the parents were. It's like he already
17:46
Speaker 1: knew that the answer would come soon, that she wouldn't
17:49
Speaker 1: be found alive. That's my personal take on it. I
17:53
Speaker 1: just think that the way he answered the reporter's question
17:58
Speaker 1: saying that he didn't know when the last time he
18:00
Speaker 1: spoke to her was all he knew was that he
18:02
Speaker 1: won her back safe. That was that was a rich
18:04
Speaker 1: flight for me. This is what we know. Her body
18:10
Speaker 1: has been found out in a field, and now the
18:13
Speaker 1: search is over. We want justice. We'll be back on
18:19
Speaker 1: the case and now all crime stories is Charlie Manson
18:24
Speaker 1: crazy but whatever that means. Sure he's crazy as a man,
18:27
Speaker 1: as a hatter, What difference does it make. I took
18:28
Speaker 1: the night and I started standing and I turned into
18:31
Speaker 1: the animal, and was you know, I just did you
18:35
Speaker 1: tell the women to do their witchy things? I said,
18:38
Speaker 1: if you're going to do something, leave something witchy, just
18:41
Speaker 1: like I would tell you if you're going to do something,
18:44
Speaker 1: do it well and leave something witchy. Leave a shign
18:46
Speaker 1: to let the world know that you were there. Have
18:48
Speaker 1: a good game. It was a crime scene like no other.
18:52
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, it went down in history,
18:56
Speaker 1: a crime scene that was so barbaric, so bloody, so shocking,
19:02
Speaker 1: so heinous that it has spawned books, articles, movies, the works.
19:11
Speaker 1: The Charles Manson killings, including the murder of a beautiful
19:17
Speaker 1: young mom, Sharon Tate. For all of these years, family
19:23
Speaker 1: members have begged, begged the California Pardner Parole Board not
19:29
Speaker 1: to release any of the Charles Manson family as they
19:34
Speaker 1: call themselves. But in the last days, the Pardnering Parole
19:39
Speaker 1: Board of California has done just that. Charles Manson follower
19:44
Speaker 1: Leslie van Houten granted parole. It's not over yet because
19:50
Speaker 1: even if Pardner in Parole in California grants parole, it
19:54
Speaker 1: must go through the governor. Right now, that governor is
19:58
Speaker 1: Jerry Brown. Is it political suicide, imancy, grace. This is
20:03
Speaker 1: crime stories, And I, for one, have not forgotten the
20:08
Speaker 1: victims of Charles Manson and his so called family. It
20:13
Speaker 1: wasn't just Sharon Tate. There were many victims. Most people
20:17
Speaker 1: don't even remember their names. But joining me right now
20:21
Speaker 1: is someone who knows their names very very well. The
20:24
Speaker 1: author of Restless Souls, The Sharon Tate Family's account of Stardom,
20:28
Speaker 1: the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice. Repeat Restless Souls,
20:34
Speaker 1: The Sharon Tate Family's account of Stardom, the Manson Murders,
20:38
Speaker 1: and a Crusade for Justice that really says it all
20:42
Speaker 1: with me as Alicia's stateman. Also with me forensic expert
20:47
Speaker 1: Karen Smith. I got to know Karen when we were
20:51
Speaker 1: performing a series of scientific experiments to prove or disprove
20:58
Speaker 1: in our own minds the thelidity of a conviction of
21:02
Speaker 1: a young man who was convicted of murdering his own mother.
21:07
Speaker 1: We conducted those experiments for days and days, and I
21:11
Speaker 1: was so impressed by Karen Smith. Ladies, thank you for
21:17
Speaker 1: being with us. I just want to say at the
21:19
Speaker 1: get go um a little awe struck of both of you,
21:23
Speaker 1: because you're you're so incredible in your field. And I've
21:27
Speaker 1: been thinking about Sharon Tate, I've been thinking about the
21:31
Speaker 1: law Bianca's I've been thinking about all of the Manson
21:35
Speaker 1: family victims and what this means to them and their families,
21:40
Speaker 1: and what it means to justice in general to know
21:44
Speaker 1: that a Manson family member has walked free. I want
21:50
Speaker 1: to go first to Alisa again, thank you for being
21:53
Speaker 1: with us. Your book is incredible. I guess the only
21:55
Speaker 1: place to start. When I would be confused in trying
21:58
Speaker 1: a case and I didn't even know where to start,
22:01
Speaker 1: I did one thing. It could be organizing the file.
22:05
Speaker 1: It could be going down a list of witness that
22:08
Speaker 1: existed and trying to enhance it, find numbers, fine locations.
22:12
Speaker 1: It could be walking to my car in the parking
22:13
Speaker 1: debt and getting in and going out on the street
22:15
Speaker 1: to take picture. Just one step, one step, and you
22:18
Speaker 1: know what's funny. At least the other day, my little girl, Lucy,
22:21
Speaker 1: my son John David, said, Mom, Mom, Mom, we've got
22:24
Speaker 1: to write a proverb. A proverb for extra credit. And
22:29
Speaker 1: I merely thought of this one. A journey of a
22:33
Speaker 1: thousand miles begins with one step, which has been so true.
22:37
Speaker 1: And for the other I gave all the glitters is
22:39
Speaker 1: not gold. Those are two to live by. So let's
22:42
Speaker 1: start with one step at least. So let's start at
22:44
Speaker 1: the beginning. Let's go through as we wait for the
22:47
Speaker 1: governor's response. Let's start at the beginning. What happened on
22:52
Speaker 1: the night of August eight, Charles Watson, Patricia crime Winkle,
22:58
Speaker 1: Susan Atkins, and somebody who's not known very well, uh
23:04
Speaker 1: Linda went into Sharon's house and murdered five people and
23:11
Speaker 1: that would be Stephen parents in the car, Sharon Tate,
23:15
Speaker 1: J C Bring, Abigail Folder and Boytekrakowski went into the
23:19
Speaker 1: sanctity of their own home bound these people up and
23:24
Speaker 1: murdered them in the most horrific way possible. Sharon Tate,
23:29
Speaker 1: eight and a half months pregnant, stabbed her sixteen times
23:33
Speaker 1: over a hundred and nine dad wounds, bullet wounds, beaten
23:36
Speaker 1: over the head, blood left on the walls, the bloodiest
23:40
Speaker 1: crime scene that's ever been seen. And then the second
23:43
Speaker 1: night they go out again. Wait wait, wait the second night.
23:46
Speaker 1: How did they manage to walk free for there to
23:48
Speaker 1: even be a second night? A Lisa, They walked out
23:51
Speaker 1: into the night, went to a neighbor's house, washed the
23:55
Speaker 1: blood off the car, and went back to Spawns Movie ranch,
23:58
Speaker 1: never to be detected. It's just I'm trying to soap
24:02
Speaker 1: that in. I'm trying to sink it in. When you
24:04
Speaker 1: say the bloodiest crime scene weren't their words written on
24:09
Speaker 1: the walls in blood? There was the word pig written
24:13
Speaker 1: on the front door sharing Tape's house. The next night,
24:17
Speaker 1: at the La Bianca house, there was many words written
24:21
Speaker 1: on the walls, on the refrigerator. In Lena la Bianca's skin,
24:25
Speaker 1: white white, white, white, white white white white. What in
24:28
Speaker 1: her skin? In Leno la Bianca's skin, Patricia Kranwinkle carved
24:33
Speaker 1: the word war into his skin and then left a
24:37
Speaker 1: carving fork embedded in his stomach and a knife traversing
24:41
Speaker 1: his throat. She left a four stuck in his stomach
24:46
Speaker 1: and a knife stuck in his throat. You know what,
24:50
Speaker 1: Karen Smith, to hear Alisa's statman describe it. You know,
24:55
Speaker 1: I've been on so many murder scenes, saying, so many
24:59
Speaker 1: dead bodies, so many autopsies, so many crime scene photos.
25:05
Speaker 1: But I've never seen anything like that. I've never seen. Yes,
25:09
Speaker 1: I've seen a mass murder, but I've never seen it
25:11
Speaker 1: at that scale. Karen, Karen Smith for expert, joining me,
25:16
Speaker 1: renowned forensic expert. What does it say to you about
25:19
Speaker 1: who the killers are? Nancy? These people are remorseless, they
25:25
Speaker 1: are vicious, they are cruel and a crime scene like
25:32
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the scope of any that I've worked.
25:35
Speaker 1: I've worked over twenty and uh, I would have been
25:40
Speaker 1: completely agast and taken aback had I seen something like
25:43
Speaker 1: that To write Pig, I mean, you stab an eight
25:47
Speaker 1: and a half month pregnant lady sixteen times. I remember
25:54
Speaker 1: when I was at at six months, I couldn't even
25:57
Speaker 1: walk anymore. I think I told Kieren this. We were
26:00
Speaker 1: together at some point when I was pregnant, I was
26:02
Speaker 1: already in a wheelchair. I couldn't breathe. I didn't know
26:05
Speaker 1: i'd have blood clot cemilans, but I couldn't breathe, and
26:08
Speaker 1: I couldn't walk. And I'm just imagining Sharon Tate. And
26:14
Speaker 1: we always hear about Sharon Tate, But who are the
26:18
Speaker 1: other victims? At least A stateman J C. Bring. He
26:21
Speaker 1: was a renowned men's hair stylist. He was working on
26:25
Speaker 1: becoming an international franchise with C. Bring International. He had
26:30
Speaker 1: so many hopes and dreams, everything his entire life reaching
26:34
Speaker 1: out for him. We have Abigail Folter, who spent her
26:36
Speaker 1: entire life helping others. She went into Watts, which was,
26:40
Speaker 1: you know, a pretty scary place to go for a
26:44
Speaker 1: young woman. She would go. You know, these were the
26:47
Speaker 1: where the riots were and where the gangs were, and
26:49
Speaker 1: she would go there every day to help others. She
26:53
Speaker 1: you know, she spent most of her life helping others.
26:56
Speaker 1: And you know what the newspapers wrote about her, that
26:58
Speaker 1: she was an heiress providing drug money to her boyfriend.
27:02
Speaker 1: You know, those are let's remember also, you know what
27:05
Speaker 1: was said about these people. But I want to go
27:07
Speaker 1: back to you said when they were stabbing Sharon. What
27:10
Speaker 1: nobody remembers and nobody touches upon is what these killers
27:14
Speaker 1: said as they were killing them, and the horrendous things
27:17
Speaker 1: that they were saying as they did it, like saying that,
27:20
Speaker 1: you know, paunching the knife into Sharon was a sexual release,
27:23
Speaker 1: Susan Atkins. You know, those are the things that when
27:27
Speaker 1: Karen says that these are Calou's horrible human beings, we
27:29
Speaker 1: have to go back to what they were, what they
27:31
Speaker 1: have testified to saying as they were taking the life
27:34
Speaker 1: from these people. You know, I didn't know that fact.
27:37
Speaker 1: You know, I've dealt for so long with Vincent Bugliosi.
27:43
Speaker 1: Who is he? He's an icon to me? And yes,
27:47
Speaker 1: I know every human has their faults, but I really
27:53
Speaker 1: looked up to him, and it seems like with his passing,
27:57
Speaker 1: the fervor behind, the strength behind keeping these guys in
28:03
Speaker 1: jail seems to have waned. Right now, Leslie van Houghton,
28:06
Speaker 1: a member of the Manson family, has been paroled by
28:11
Speaker 1: the Pardoner in Parole Board of California. I don't know
28:13
Speaker 1: what they're thinking, but it's got to go through Governor
28:17
Speaker 1: Jerry Brown. Now I want you to hear but my producer,
28:24
Speaker 1: my EP has come up with Alan Duke. Please roll
28:29
Speaker 1: the sound of Leslie van Houghton talking to her lawyer
28:34
Speaker 1: about the murders. And as you Alan Duke put it,
28:37
Speaker 1: it sounds like she's just talking about going on a
28:40
Speaker 1: shopping excursion. Listen. And I took the night and I
28:44
Speaker 1: started stabbing, and I turned into the animal almost you know,
28:47
Speaker 1: I just completely let out on that woman's back stabbing.
28:50
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't really have any idea in my mind.
28:53
Speaker 1: But it's a real feeling. It's not even like cutting
28:56
Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It's much tougher. I had to
28:58
Speaker 1: use good hands, all my strength behind it to get
29:01
Speaker 1: it in. And so once I started, the feeling was
29:03
Speaker 1: so weird that I just kept doing it. She was dead.
29:06
Speaker 1: I remember seeing her laying in front of her closet
29:11
Speaker 1: and bloody on her stomach, and her head was covered,
29:13
Speaker 1: so I didn't see her face. I kind of wish
29:15
Speaker 1: I had it because I could have seen what I
29:18
Speaker 1: had done more. Katy get to night in her throat
29:21
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't go. Remember the man laying on the sofa,
29:24
Speaker 1: gurgle and deep, bloody gurgle, and so the alice looked freaky.
29:30
Speaker 1: And then Katie and Jakes when I came out of
29:33
Speaker 1: the bedroom and we're taking a shower, and then after
29:36
Speaker 1: that we were hungry, and so we went and we
29:39
Speaker 1: took some cheese and milk. All the refrigerator with me,
29:42
Speaker 1: Guys is Alan Deep Alan. She's talking, you know, spontaneously
29:47
Speaker 1: and naturally to her lawyers. Tell me exactly what she
29:49
Speaker 1: was just saying, don't leave anything out. This was ninety
29:53
Speaker 1: one and she was briefing her new lawyer on the
29:56
Speaker 1: case and it was being recorded. So she was just
29:59
Speaker 1: talking about how it's out to kill, how it felt
30:01
Speaker 1: not just like cutting meat, but it felt different than
30:04
Speaker 1: cutting meat. But what's striking to me? Whoa whoa, whoa
30:07
Speaker 1: she said it was like cutting meat. Cutting me. Alicia Statman,
30:11
Speaker 1: tell me, By the way, everybody with me is Karen Smith,
30:14
Speaker 1: forensics expert and Alicia Statman, author of Restless Souls, the
30:19
Speaker 1: Sharon Tate Family's account of stardom, the Manson Murders, and
30:22
Speaker 1: a Crusade for Justice. Tell me the significance of hearing
30:27
Speaker 1: Leslie Van Houghton briefing her new lawyer. You know, what
30:31
Speaker 1: she was saying was is that it was different. And
30:34
Speaker 1: first of all, let me go back. She's explaining the
30:36
Speaker 1: murder of Rosemary and Leno la Bianca specifically and mostly
30:41
Speaker 1: what it was like to stab Rosemary la Bianca on
30:45
Speaker 1: that night, and she said it was different than cutting
30:47
Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It was so real and once
30:50
Speaker 1: I started, I couldn't stop, and I let loose on
30:53
Speaker 1: that woman's back and I became an animal. You know,
30:56
Speaker 1: I think, what's so significant, right, White White Way, Elsa.
31:02
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you and Alan have listened to
31:05
Speaker 1: that bit of sound many times, but I'm just hearing
31:10
Speaker 1: it for the first time that she and I want
31:14
Speaker 1: everybody to hear it that she turned into an animal
31:20
Speaker 1: and let loose on the woman's back. Okay, I'm just
31:25
Speaker 1: trying to take it in. What you're saying, I guess
31:29
Speaker 1: as praise. I've never gotten jaded because just hearing it,
31:33
Speaker 1: I think it like my mom or my husband, or
31:37
Speaker 1: my children, and this happening to them. Okay, tell me again,
31:43
Speaker 1: what what did you just say, Lisa That she as
31:47
Speaker 1: far as what the tape said, she said that it
31:50
Speaker 1: was like it was not like cutting a piece of meat,
31:52
Speaker 1: which she had done before. It was different than cutting
31:55
Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It was very real, and it
31:58
Speaker 1: was so real that you just wanted to keep doing it.
32:02
Speaker 1: I think that what is significant about this tape and
32:05
Speaker 1: why people need to hear it and to listen to
32:07
Speaker 1: it carefully, is because this is the woman that the
32:11
Speaker 1: parole board just decided to let loose on our society.
32:16
Speaker 1: And what happens is is that these parole boards don't
32:19
Speaker 1: look back to what happened that night. They look forward
32:23
Speaker 1: to what's happened to the criminal inside the institution and
32:28
Speaker 1: all of the wonderful things that they've done. And they
32:32
Speaker 1: need to look back, and so does the public and
32:34
Speaker 1: remember what these crimes were about and how horrific they were.
32:41
Speaker 1: You know, Alan, she's bringing up a really good point, Alan,
32:44
Speaker 1: because I remember when Simpson Ornolo James Simpson was paroled
32:52
Speaker 1: in Vegas and he was sitting there looking me and mild.
32:58
Speaker 1: Of course he did kind of like pick can fight
33:00
Speaker 1: with a prole board, but they choose to ignore it.
33:03
Speaker 1: But everyone was talking about he's done his time, he uh,
33:08
Speaker 1: which of course he had, and that was the minimum
33:11
Speaker 1: amount of time until he came up for parole, the minimum.
33:15
Speaker 1: But that aside. When I look at him, I think
33:20
Speaker 1: of the moment that Ron Goldman is stabbed over and over,
33:25
Speaker 1: and I think about the moment Nicole Brown's head is
33:29
Speaker 1: nearly sliced off, and the screaming in the blood, and
33:33
Speaker 1: the frenzy and the awfulness, and the children raised without
33:39
Speaker 1: a mother, and they have the power. The pardoning roll
33:46
Speaker 1: board has the power. And everybody laughed at me. That's fine.
33:50
Speaker 1: I knew that was coming. When I said I think
33:52
Speaker 1: they should keep him in, I knew it was coming. Okay, fine,
33:55
Speaker 1: I'm not in this to be crowned Miss sweet Potato
33:58
Speaker 1: or Miss Congeniality. I never thought that was going to happen.
34:01
Speaker 1: The moment I became a prosecutor, that all bets are
34:04
Speaker 1: off for congeniality. But in this case it's it's even
34:10
Speaker 1: more stark to me because so many deaths, so many butchered,
34:18
Speaker 1: butchered people. Alan, Well, this is not like the O. J.
34:23
Speaker 1: Simpson in one way, and that he was only convicted
34:26
Speaker 1: of stealing some autograph stuff in a casino, but it
34:29
Speaker 1: is definitely like it, and that they weren't really looking
34:31
Speaker 1: at the original crime. They only wanted how well was
34:34
Speaker 1: he doing in prison? Back to Elsa's Statman with Me
34:39
Speaker 1: is Elsa, author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate Family's
34:42
Speaker 1: account of stardom, the Manson Murders and a Crusade for Justice,
34:46
Speaker 1: and Karen L. Smith, forensics expert. You know again, I
34:50
Speaker 1: always hear about Sharon Tate, and everybody does, because she's
34:53
Speaker 1: just absolutely physically beautiful, and that's the picture that we
34:59
Speaker 1: always have in our mom kind of her pregnant. Just
35:02
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen. But
35:06
Speaker 1: there are other victims, other victims that died a horrible death,
35:12
Speaker 1: for instance Leno and Rosemary Lambianca. Uh, I don't understand her.
35:20
Speaker 1: Tell me Leslie van Houghton's role in the murders Alsa.
35:26
Speaker 1: Here's the crazy thing about Leslie van Houghton. As you know,
35:29
Speaker 1: they had been out the night before at Sharon's house.
35:31
Speaker 1: What Leslie van Houghton has admitted to is that when
35:34
Speaker 1: they decided to go out the second night, she knew
35:38
Speaker 1: that they were going specifically out to murder, and she
35:43
Speaker 1: willingly went, there's no other reason why they were going.
35:47
Speaker 1: She can't put it off on. She thought it was
35:49
Speaker 1: going to be a robbery or whatever, a thousand other excuses.
35:53
Speaker 1: She knew they were going to murder, and she wanted
35:57
Speaker 1: to go, And that says something a lot right there.
36:00
Speaker 1: The second thing is, and I think that this is
36:02
Speaker 1: what has bothered the governor in the past two times
36:05
Speaker 1: that he shot down her chance of roll is that
36:07
Speaker 1: she minimizes her role in these murders by saying that
36:10
Speaker 1: she only stabbed Rosemary fourteen to sixteen times in the
36:13
Speaker 1: lower back after she was dead. Only now, wait a minute,
36:17
Speaker 1: according to court records and correct me if I'm wrong,
36:20
Speaker 1: Leslie van Houten actually tied a pillowcase around Rosemary's head
36:26
Speaker 1: and then she held Rosemary down with a pillowcase. Can
36:30
Speaker 1: you imagine the terror of being surprised ambushed in your
36:33
Speaker 1: own home, having a pillowcase pulled over your head, a
36:37
Speaker 1: woman holding you down as other people stabbed her dozens
36:40
Speaker 1: of times. And then she picked up a butcher knife
36:45
Speaker 1: and stabbed the woman fourteen to sixteen times after holding
36:51
Speaker 1: her down with a pillow case over her head. Right now,
36:57
Speaker 1: let your voice be heard. You have a say in this.
37:03
Speaker 1: You can have a voice. California Governor Jerry Brown at
37:07
Speaker 1: the State Capitol nine one six four four five to
37:12
Speaker 1: eight four one repeat nine one six four four five
37:15
Speaker 1: to eight four one or email Governor at Governor dot
37:21
Speaker 1: c a dot gov. Repeat Governor at Governor dot c
37:26
Speaker 1: a dot gov. At this important juncture in criminal justice,
37:33
Speaker 1: one of the most notorious mass murders in US history
37:38
Speaker 1: is once again coming to a head. Leslie van Houten,
37:42
Speaker 1: one of the main members of the Charles Manson so
37:46
Speaker 1: called family who committed mass murder, has been paroled by
37:51
Speaker 1: the California Pardon and Parole Board. It's now up to
37:54
Speaker 1: Governor Jerry Brown as to whether he will allow Van
37:58
Speaker 1: Houghton to walk. But if you take a look at
38:01
Speaker 1: van hout and you see your dress up like uh
38:04
Speaker 1: mile mannered librarian when she's at the Partner Parole board.
38:08
Speaker 1: Listen to this, You're going to start by killing, by
38:14
Speaker 1: doing a murder. It had no sense behind and where
38:17
Speaker 1: we were all almost fascinated by the thought of killing people.
38:20
Speaker 1: It had to be done, and really only was that
38:23
Speaker 1: saw that I had you done. Me and Katie and
38:25
Speaker 1: Sadie and Clem. We all went out that night. We
38:28
Speaker 1: went driving around, couldn't find any place, and I was tired,
38:31
Speaker 1: and so we went to sleep. When I woke up,
38:34
Speaker 1: I heard Charlie talking into Sadie and he said, they
38:37
Speaker 1: think it's a Bobrey. They're tied up. Just go on in.
38:40
Speaker 1: I got the wallets. Just make it quick and easy.
38:43
Speaker 1: So we went in, you know, and the woman she
38:45
Speaker 1: turned around and say, what are you guys doing here?
38:47
Speaker 1: Was really kind. We're just gonna take your money. Were
38:50
Speaker 1: supposed to go mat the women and pretty hood on her,
38:55
Speaker 1: because all of a sudden she jumped up. She got
38:57
Speaker 1: the lamp and I put her back with Eno and
39:01
Speaker 1: we came all right, and Katie tried to do and
39:06
Speaker 1: straight out to author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate
39:11
Speaker 1: Family's account of stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade
39:14
Speaker 1: for Justice, Elisa statement is with me along with renowned
39:18
Speaker 1: forensics expert Karen Smith. Alisa explained to me what Leslie
39:23
Speaker 1: van Houten was just saying. She was in a Nutchell Nancy.
39:27
Speaker 1: She was explaining the night of the La Bianca murders
39:29
Speaker 1: before and after they got to the house, and she
39:32
Speaker 1: was saying that they drove around looking for a victim,
39:34
Speaker 1: so she knew that they were going to murder. That
39:37
Speaker 1: they got to the La Bianca house, and she had
39:39
Speaker 1: been so calm during the driving around looking for people
39:41
Speaker 1: to butcher, that she had fallen to sleep. So they're
39:44
Speaker 1: driving around at night in California. And remember, Leslie van
39:49
Speaker 1: Houten and Charles Manson were both sentenced to the death penalty. Okay,
39:54
Speaker 1: Vincent Bugliosi prosecuted this, God rest his soul. They were
39:58
Speaker 1: given the death penalty, and then the U. S. Supreme Court,
40:02
Speaker 1: in its wisdom, reversed the death penalty for a period
40:05
Speaker 1: of years, so their dps were thrown out and they
40:09
Speaker 1: got life behind bars. Vanhattan is spent after she escapes
40:13
Speaker 1: death for all the murders, has spent her entire time
40:16
Speaker 1: behind bars trying to get out. So back to you, Alica,
40:22
Speaker 1: you're saying they're out driving around looking for somebody to butcher.
40:26
Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. Yes, that's correct. And while they're
40:31
Speaker 1: doing that, Leslie van Houten falls asleep. H She wakes
40:37
Speaker 1: up when they get to the LaBianca house and Manson
40:41
Speaker 1: has already been inside, and he tells them that he's
40:43
Speaker 1: tied them up, that they think it's only going to
40:46
Speaker 1: be a robbery, and that they're very calm, and he
40:48
Speaker 1: tells them to go in and kill them. The tape
40:52
Speaker 1: then continues and it says that she went in, they
40:56
Speaker 1: got Rosemary la Bianca. They put a pillowcase over her
40:58
Speaker 1: head and they took her into the bedroom. Once they
41:02
Speaker 1: were in the bedroom, they started to kill Lena la
41:05
Speaker 1: Bianca in the living room, and Rosemary heard her husband
41:09
Speaker 1: being murdered and started screaming, what are you doing to Leno,
41:13
Speaker 1: at which point they tried to start stabbing her, and
41:17
Speaker 1: Rosemary broke free of her hand bindings, grabbed the lamp
41:22
Speaker 1: cord that was attached around her neck and started swinging
41:26
Speaker 1: at them to try and save her life. They tackled her.
41:31
Speaker 1: The victim grabs a lamp and start swinging at it
41:34
Speaker 1: everybody to make them stop as they're killing the husband.
41:39
Speaker 1: And what happens. They tackled her, they held her down,
41:44
Speaker 1: and they stabbed her to death. Her Leslie van Houghton
41:47
Speaker 1: and Patricia crime Winkle. Now that's a visual that will
41:52
Speaker 1: give you nightmares for the rest of your life. Victim
41:54
Speaker 1: while the swinging a lamp to keep these vultures off
42:00
Speaker 1: the husband and to save her own life. Yeah, you
42:03
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna be thinking about that tonight before
42:06
Speaker 1: I go to sleep, wildly swinging a lamp to get
42:10
Speaker 1: them away. But it didn't work. Van Houghton and the
42:14
Speaker 1: Manson family out the second night of butchering on a
42:19
Speaker 1: killing spree, invade the home of Leno and Rosemary la Bianca.
42:24
Speaker 1: First they terrorized them horribly before killing them. Then Van
42:29
Speaker 1: Hatton holes Rosemary down as other people stab her. Then
42:34
Speaker 1: Van Houghton plunges a knife into Rosemary over a dozen times.
42:40
Speaker 1: Then they write messages on the walls using the victim's blood.
42:47
Speaker 1: It wasn't just murders, it was terrorism. And I'll tell
42:52
Speaker 1: you why because Alica's stateman, Charles Manson, in some crazy way,
43:01
Speaker 1: was trying to start a race war. Yeah, a lot
43:06
Speaker 1: of people don't know this, that's the whole intent behind
43:08
Speaker 1: these murders. He didn't even know these people, and he
43:12
Speaker 1: wanted the members the murders to get the project started
43:18
Speaker 1: by putting the city in a state of panic, a
43:22
Speaker 1: race war. Have you ever heard anything so crazy in
43:25
Speaker 1: your life, Karen Smith? I mean, when you see a
43:28
Speaker 1: crime scene, you're looking for clues, you're looking for evidence.
43:32
Speaker 1: You know, fibers, bloods better. But the motive they murdered
43:36
Speaker 1: all these people to start a race war. Who would
43:40
Speaker 1: have even imagined that that's true? Nancy. And you know,
43:43
Speaker 1: Vincent Guliosi did a brilliant prosecutorial move by bringing that
43:47
Speaker 1: into the courtroom and putting those pieces together for trial,
43:50
Speaker 1: to get the people behind bars that needed to be there. Um.
43:53
Speaker 1: You know, some people made a question that everyone that
43:56
Speaker 1: was involved not be behind bars quite yet. But at
43:59
Speaker 1: this point, you know, letting Leslie van Houghton out should
44:04
Speaker 1: be off the table. You said that she received the
44:06
Speaker 1: death penalty and then it was rescinded in the seventies. Um,
44:09
Speaker 1: she got lucky once. Now they're deciding to let her
44:12
Speaker 1: out again. I've worked hundreds of murders. I've never heard
44:17
Speaker 1: or seen anything to this. Scale in my career, and
44:21
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how the victims families feel about this,
44:26
Speaker 1: and I think that they're being very discounted. And I
44:29
Speaker 1: think that, you know, I don't care. You can dress
44:32
Speaker 1: Leslie van Houghton in a nun's habit, in a wimple
44:34
Speaker 1: and give her a doctorate in divinity. I really don't
44:37
Speaker 1: care what she's done in prison. I don't care. She's vicious,
44:42
Speaker 1: she's a horrific human being, and she is exactly where
44:46
Speaker 1: she belongs. Well, the whole thing is, if we don't
44:49
Speaker 1: have enough problems, okay, simmering resentment over the past and
44:57
Speaker 1: ongoing racial tension and anger, now we have a woman
45:05
Speaker 1: and the Manson family whose intent in these crazy, horrible
45:10
Speaker 1: crimes was to instill terror and panic, to instigate fear.
45:19
Speaker 1: That's what it was all about. A lot of people
45:21
Speaker 1: don't know that. And as you were just saying, um,
45:25
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two, the state's process for the death
45:29
Speaker 1: penalty was decided to be unconstitutional and everybody had their
45:34
Speaker 1: dps reversed. Everything went sideways. Her lawyer died during the trial,
45:40
Speaker 1: and appeals court just gave her a new trial. I mean,
45:44
Speaker 1: it goes back and forth her that it was a
45:46
Speaker 1: very rocky road and now she's up for parole again.
45:51
Speaker 1: If you disagree nine one six four four five two
45:56
Speaker 1: eight four one or right governor at governor dot c
46:03
Speaker 1: a dot gov. Listen to Charles Manson in his interview
46:09
Speaker 1: with ABC's Diane Sawyer. I'm not a violent human being.
46:16
Speaker 1: Did you tell the women to do their witchy things?
46:19
Speaker 1: I said, if you're going to do something, leave something witchy,
46:24
Speaker 1: just like I would tell you if you're going to
46:26
Speaker 1: do something, do it well and leave something witchy. Leave
46:31
Speaker 1: a sign to let the world know that you were there.
46:33
Speaker 1: Have a good day. Did you tell them which words? No,
46:37
Speaker 1: pig helter skelter rise. It's not my vocabulary, that's not
46:43
Speaker 1: my generation. I keep telling you that. In the car
46:49
Speaker 1: on the way to the Lobianca house, you said, this time,
46:53
Speaker 1: make sure they're not scared like last night. Oh no,
46:58
Speaker 1: there may have been something like this. Uh yeah that
47:04
Speaker 1: I remember something like that, but I don't remember exactly
47:06
Speaker 1: the right words. I don't remember exactly the right words.
47:09
Speaker 1: But that's that's a simple that's a simple philosophy from China.
47:13
Speaker 1: That's a Chinese philosophy, you know, if if you're gonna,
47:17
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go to war and you're fighting your
47:20
Speaker 1: enemy and you kill him when he's afraid, you know,
47:23
Speaker 1: it's a bad omen. It's bad. It's bad, So you
47:27
Speaker 1: try to absorb the fear with I think the Hindus
47:32
Speaker 1: use that word karma to balance a karma. Did you
47:36
Speaker 1: tell them to mutilate so that it would be memorable
47:39
Speaker 1: so that people would know something was going on? Or
47:43
Speaker 1: did you tell them to do it in a memorable way? Hey,
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Speaker 1: I told you what I told him. If you're gonna move,
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Speaker 1: you're gonna do something, do it with your soul and
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Speaker 1: your heart. Do it right, man, don't have step on it.
47:55
Speaker 1: Did they do it right? I don't know. That's so
47:57
Speaker 1: to them. They live with that. They're responsible for their actions.
48:02
Speaker 1: I'm responsible for my actions. Is Charlie Manson crazy or
48:05
Speaker 1: whatever that means? Sure, he's crazy as mad as a hatter?
48:08
Speaker 1: What difference does it make? You know? A long time ago,
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Speaker 1: being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy. So I mean,
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Speaker 1: you know, like you know, it's anonymous Sunday, it's irony
48:18
Speaker 1: man at a pair of ducks? I mean, are you crazy?
48:21
Speaker 1: Dressed in black? You think I don't know everything. It
48:22
Speaker 1: goes with that black you're dressed in. Yeah, where's your
48:27
Speaker 1: black gloves? Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,