Latest / Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy / 438 | "Guess What?" How to Handle When a Child Insists That You Guess

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438 | "Guess What?" How to Handle When a Child Insists That You Guess · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

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  You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
• 0:03
  Brenna Hicks,
• 0:04
  your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
• 0:08
  Hi,
• 0:08
  I'm Dr.
• 0:09
  Brenna Hicks,
• 0:09
  The Kid Counselor.
• 0:10
  This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
• 0:12
  a master class in child-centered play therapy
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  and practical support and application for your
• 0:17
  work with children and their families.
• 0:19
  In today's episode,
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  I'm answering a question from Maddie.
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  And this is about when a child wants us to guess things.
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  So,
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  the guessing game
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  game in the playroom
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  and how to handle that,
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  what's going on,
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  best practices,
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  so on and so forth.
• 0:36
  So,
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  Maddie,
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  thank you for
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  the email.
• 0:38
  I appreciate it.
• 0:40
  Hey y'all,
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  really quickly,
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  we've got so much going on and I
• 0:44
  just wanna make sure that y'all are aware.
• 0:46
  I mean,
• 0:46
  I've mentioned some of them
• 0:49
  in random podcasts,
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  but I kinda wanna make sure that we kinda have it all in one fell swoop just so that
• 0:54
  new listeners and people that are new to the family
• 0:57
  kinda have a sense of what's going on.
• 0:58
  So,
• 0:59
  playtherapynow.com is the spot,
• 1:01
  playtherapynow.com.
• 1:02
  Is the spot to get everything that you need.
• 1:05
  So,
• 1:05
  anything related to what we're doing,
• 1:07
  you can find it on playtherapynow.com
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  So,
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  those are going to be your two places specifically that you
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  need to peruse and make sure that you're signed up for.
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  And just to kind of review and,
• 1:25
  and do a rundown here.
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  We have our live event in New Jersey coming up the middle of October.
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  So you still have some time to get signed up for that.
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  We have a podcast meetup in Jersey.
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  So,
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  on Sunday the 18th,
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  we are going to have unrelated to the conference event.
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  A podcast meetup.
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  So podcast listeners within driving distance of Jersey,
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  which that's a lot of you.
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  that can get to the New York,
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  New Jersey line.
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  We're going to have a podcast meet up on the 18th,
• 2:04
  Sunday.
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  So,
• 2:06
  please make sure that you go to playtherapynow.com and register for that.
• 2:10
  We're really excited.
• 2:11
  That's something that I do when I travel so that I can meet you.
• 2:15
  And so,
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  it's just hang out and spend time together and just
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  have a lot of fun getting to know other CCPTs
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  and hopefully make some community connections as well.
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  But obviously,
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  I get to meet you in different parts of the country.
• 2:28
  So,
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  The meetup is gonna be on Sunday.
• 2:31
  The event is on Saturday.
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  That's coming up.
• 2:34
  We also have Field of Dreams coming up in January,
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  at the end of January in Tampa.
• 2:38
  That's our annual event.
• 2:39
  So 2nd annual Field of Dreams event.
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  Many of you were not able to come last year,
• 2:44
  and many of you have said that you want to come this year.
• 2:46
  So,
• 2:46
  please make sure that you are aware that's coming.
• 2:49
  Start to think about,
• 2:50
  you know,
• 2:51
  tickets and planning and all of that.
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  Excited to have you all come to my neck of the woods
• 2:56
  in January.
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  Although last year it was so dang cold.
• 2:58
  I mean,
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  I literally blame the northerners because it snowed in Florida
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  at the Field of Dreams event after I promised that
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  in January we normally have like 70 degree weather.
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  So we had snow in Florida,
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  which happens,
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  I don't know,
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  3 times in my entire lifetime.
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  So,
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  that was crazy.
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  I suspect this year maybe we will not have snow in January in Tampa,
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  so
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  please come hang out with me then.
• 3:22
  We have obviously the Parent Companion for Play Therapy book
• 3:26
  that is for sale.
• 3:27
  Many of you are buying that in bulk,
• 3:29
  so I'm so thrilled that you're using that in your practices.
• 3:32
  We have a new book coming out.
• 3:34
  Eric just released the Happily Ever Asperger book.
• 3:36
  I mean,
• 3:36
  there's just so much going on around here.
• 3:39
  So make sure that you go to playtherapynow.com to check it out.
• 3:42
  If you're interested in coaching,
• 3:43
  you can also find information about that there.
• 3:46
  All of the Corwell links if you want to get CEUs on demand.
• 3:50
  That's there.
• 3:51
  I've got info about the online community,
• 3:53
  the Collective,
• 3:54
  so
• 3:55
  just
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  Hang out with me.
• 3:57
  It's the moral of the story.
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  You know,
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  I,
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  I spend many,
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  many hours of my life sitting staring at
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  foam
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  sound dampening panels when I podcast.
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  I have a mic in front of me and I literally stare at gray sound dampening panels.
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  But the way that I
• 4:14
  get through that is I imagine y'all's faces and what
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  you're doing when you listen and where you live and,
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  and,
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  you know,
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  what your experience is like with CCPT.
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  So,
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  it's easier for me to do that when I actually meet you in person.
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  So,
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  just know that there's lots of opportunities for you to connect
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  with me and I'd love for you to do it.
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  All right.
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  Overview done.
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  So,
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  let me read parts of Maddie's email and then we'll dive in.
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  Every session
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  my 10 year old client at some point will say something like,
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  Guess what I'm eating for lunch?
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  or You have 3 guesses for what I just built,
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  or 3 guesses for what I did yesterday.
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  I often reflect her statements,
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  noting that she likes knowing something that I don't,
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  or that she wants me to guess even though she knows I don't know.
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  But even after that,
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  she insists,
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  I guess 3 times.
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  What is the correct CCPT approach to this and what does she actually want?
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  All right.
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  So,
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  I'm really glad that you asked this.
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  I'm not sure that we've talked about it often in the podcast.
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  I know we talk about it in coaching and in the collective pretty regularly,
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  but I'm not sure how often it's made its way to an episode.
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  So,
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  I think this is gonna be really helpful.
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  One of the things that we need to understand about a scenario like this
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  is there's always a why.
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  And I think Maddie,
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  you've already kind of acknowledged it.
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  You
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  are aware that she knows that you don't know,
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  and she likes knowing something that you don't.
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  So that lends itself toward it's a power and control thing.
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  Because a lot of times kids
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  will engage with us,
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  ask us questions,
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  ask us to guess things,
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  and there are other motivations.
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  And I don't want to get in the weeds here talking
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  about something that's kind of unrelated to your specific question,
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  but
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  I just want to throw out some of those options.
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  So,
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  sometimes a kid will have us guess because
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  they
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  have low self-esteem
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  and they're wanting to confirm or deny whether or not they
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  Drew something that was understandable.
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  So like,
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  guess what I drew,
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  and it's a self-esteem concern.
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  In other words,
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  if you can guess that it's a giraffe,
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  then I drew a giraffe well.
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  And if you can't guess that it's a giraffe,
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  then I drew a giraffe poorly,
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  and it's a self-esteem kind of thing.
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  Sometimes they're asking us to guess because it's connective and relational.
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  They want to
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  involve us and have conversation with us
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  in what's important to them.
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  In this particular case,
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  Maddie,
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  it seems like it's a power and control thing,
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  and there are other options for why a child behaves that way.
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  Those were just kind of a few that I threw out there.
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  But in this particular case,
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  what I'm eating for lunch,
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  what I built,
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  what I did yesterday,
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  OK,
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  so I think there's a part of this,
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  especially lunch and yesterday,
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  she is letting you in outside of
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  the playroom.
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  In other words,
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  I want you to be aware of what happens when I'm not with you.
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  That can partially be relational and connective.
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  However,
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  the fact that she insists
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  and that you acknowledge and you reflect and she still
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  makes you guess three times,
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  that feels more like power and control if we kind of had to rank those.
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  So,
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  you have two questions.
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  What is the correct approach for CCPT and what does she actually want?
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  OK,
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  so in this particular case,
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  since it seems as though it's power control driven,
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  she wants to have
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  the knowledge.
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  And the control and the power and the authority
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  and therefore you don't.
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  So that's
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  what she wants.
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  It's serving a need for her.
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  It's temporary.
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  It won't last forever,
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  but for right now,
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  she needs to have that
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  knowledge and power and control
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  and make sure that you don't.
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  What is the most helpful way to approach this from a CCPT perspective?
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  You essentially
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  wordsmith things.
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  So,
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  this is kind of that subtle nuance of CCPT that comes with
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  more practice and higher levels of mastery.
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  So,
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  when a child says,
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  OK,
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  guess what I did yesterday?
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  You
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  reflect
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  multiple times.
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  You acknowledge that you're not sure.
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  Oh,
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  you really want me to guess.
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  Oh,
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  and so you're kind of stalling.
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  One of the most helpful strategies in a scenario like this
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  is you hem and you haw,
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  and you kind of stall and you don't really give an actual answer.
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  You can say lots of things without actually answering the question.
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  Oh,
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  you want me to guess what you did yesterday?
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  Oh my goodness,
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  there's so many things that you could have done yesterday.
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  Hmm.
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  Man,
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  I mean,
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  a whole day,
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  there's so many options.
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  I don't even know where I would begin to figure out what you did.
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  And you literally talk about the answer without giving an answer.
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  That's a pretty standard routine.
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  And
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  we're essentially acknowledging that she's wanting us to guess.
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  She's acknowledging we're acknowledging that she's curious.
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  We're acknowledging that she's hoping we
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  will come up with an answer.
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  So,
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  we're filling in a lot of time and space,
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  essentially.
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  And what we're doing.
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  is hoping that
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  she gets so tired of you not answering
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  that she either moves on or just tells you.
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  That doesn't always work,
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  but it works enough that that's a really helpful strategy.
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  So we're going to continue to
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  Kind of avoid answering the question,
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  but we,
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  it's actually important to not stay silent though.
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  Here,
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  let me make that distinction.
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  So,
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  often what will happen is I'll watch videos of CCPTs and coaching and
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  they'll say,
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  oh,
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  you're wondering if I can guess.
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  And they just sit there.
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  And then the kid looks at them and nods their head like,
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  uh-huh,
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  with their eyebrows raised,
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  like,
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  what are you doing?
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  And then the therapist says,
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  hm,
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  you're curious.
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  If I know what you did yesterday.
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  And then there's this other awkward pause,
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  and then the kid goes,
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  yeah,
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  so guess what I did?
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  And then the therapist goes,
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  hm,
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  you're really wanting me to guess.
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  OK,
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  so
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  all of those are on target responses.
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  They are adherent to the model,
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  but they're not actually giving any answer.
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  And so that is very frustrating for a child.
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  It,
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  it actually feels avoidant.
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  And what happens,
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  unfortunately is that sometimes creates a reverse power struggle
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  where we have given the child power and control in the playroom.
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  CCPT affords autonomy and freedom.
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  And so we've basically said,
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  you're in charge,
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  and then the child says,
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  good,
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  guess what I did yesterday.
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  And we don't give them an answer that seems like an answer,
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  and they feel like we're refusing to let them have power and control
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  because their power and control is
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  yes.
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  I'm in charge,
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  so I'm telling you I want you to guess.
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  And then when we don't,
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  and it's just silent and it's awkward,
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  that can be very frustrating for a child.
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  So we want to give them enough in our response that
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  it feels like we're answering even though we're not actually saying,
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  I think you read a book.
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  OK.
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  Another strategy for this.
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  Is
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  you
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  get more clues.
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  So child's not going to let up,
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  child's going to insist that you give a guess.
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  So then you start trying to figure out like how to whittle down the options.
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  So,
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  oh,
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  OK,
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  so you want me to guess.
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  I wonder if I'm guessing.
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  Something that you did or something that you did
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  or something that you said
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  or no,
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  no,
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  no,
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  no,
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  it's something that I did.
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  OK,
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  so it's something that you did
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  at
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  home.
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  At home.
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  OK,
• 11:41
  so it's something that you did at home,
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  and then at this point you're engaging enough,
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  you're still not answering the question,
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  but you're engaging enough that you're starting to get a
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  clue as to where the child may be going with
• 11:54
  the question.
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  And
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  it again stalls for time.
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  And so,
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  you know,
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  you can do that for a really long time.
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  OK,
• 12:03
  it was something that you did at home.
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  Hmm,
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  I wonder if this was something that you did before school or after school.
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  OK.
• 12:12
  And so I mean that's almost a never-ending
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  conversation
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  if you want it to be.
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  And so eventually if the kid really starts to get frustrated,
• 12:22
  angry,
• 12:23
  upset,
• 12:23
  irritated,
• 12:24
  whatever,
• 12:25
  there's emotional IQ
• 12:27
  that we need to build.
• 12:28
  So child is really
• 12:30
  not handling that you are ignoring the answer.
• 12:33
  Then you might say,
• 12:35
  OK,
• 12:35
  so you just want me to choose something that you did at home after school,
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  and you just want me to guess.
• 12:41
  Yes,
• 12:42
  hm,
• 12:43
  you
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  Watch TV.
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  OK.
• 12:48
  That is actually a practical answer for the clues that you've been given.
• 12:53
  It was after school,
• 12:54
  at home,
• 12:55
  something that the child did.
• 12:57
  Watching TV is a feasible response.
• 13:01
  And so you're trying to delay
• 13:04
  actually having to make a guess.
• 13:07
  But if it gets to a point where
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  you can tell that it is actually kind of derailing or disrupting
• 13:15
  the session,
• 13:16
  this is kind of a clinical judgment call that we make.
• 13:18
  If this is disrupting the flow of the session,
• 13:22
  Then we throw out a very simple,
• 13:24
  appropriate guess.
• 13:27
  And then we start back if they go,
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  nope.
• 13:30
  So she says,
• 13:30
  no,
• 13:31
  it wasn't watching TV
• 13:32
  then you're like,
• 13:33
  oh,
• 13:33
  OK,
• 13:34
  well,
• 13:34
  I told you there were so many options.
• 13:35
  I have no idea how I'm supposed to guess.
• 13:37
  And you go right back to,
• 13:40
  I'm avoiding answering the question and I'm stalling.
• 13:43
  So it becomes kind of this delicate dance that
• 13:45
  we do where we're honoring and respecting the child,
• 13:48
  why they're doing it,
• 13:49
  what they need,
• 13:50
  being adherent to the model,
• 13:51
  making sure that we're not drifting,
• 13:53
  making sure that we're not jumping too quickly to answer,
• 13:55
  making sure we're not avoiding the answer.
• 13:57
  So it's very nuanced,
• 13:59
  but
• 14:00
  there's a delicacy to it
• 14:02
  where
• 14:03
  we're kind of like,
• 14:04
  OK,
• 14:05
  I'm going to give the child enough.
• 14:08
  That it doesn't create a reverse power struggle,
• 14:10
  but I'm not going
• 14:11
  to
• 14:12
  dive in and make guesses because that can actually be disruptive as well.
• 14:16
  So I hope that that's helpful,
• 14:17
  Maddie.
• 14:18
  You know,
• 14:19
  it is kind of a very specific case by case kind of scenario because some kid,
• 14:23
  you could say,
• 14:24
  Oh,
• 14:24
  you're curious if I could guess,
• 14:25
  and then they go,
• 14:26
  Never mind,
• 14:27
  I'll just tell you.
• 14:28
  OK,
• 14:29
  so that,
• 14:30
  that,
• 14:30
  that's a totally different dynamic than a child that's going to do 20 minutes
• 14:34
  round and round and round with you insisting that you guess.
• 14:38
  So we kind of play each
• 14:39
  scenario by ear and,
• 14:41
  and then we have our strategies moving forward.
• 14:43
  So,
• 14:43
  thanks so much for the email,
• 14:44
  Maddie.
• 14:44
  I appreciate it.
• 14:45
  If y'all wanna reach out,
• 14:46
  I'd love to hear from you,
• 14:47
  brenna@thekidcounselor.com
• 14:49
  We'll talk again soon.
• 14:50
  Have a great week.
• 14:50
  Bye.
• 14:52
  Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
• 14:55
  Brenna Hicks.
• 14:56
  For more episodes and resources,
• 14:58
  please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.