Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 352 - Hard Targets

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 352 - Hard Targets · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H mmmm, been eating cheeseburgers.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I see everything is going to hail down here in Ductor.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: He is not to bees and Joby's joke bes and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the trimble Bee, Pam and t best, Joby.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Frock condenjob Brady.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: And Means and Joby's Joby's and the trimble be.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Pave and trimble Means and shoeby slip Cony job Faddy.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Chiming, no one is seeking and.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: A bad shave chant nothing five times.
• 0:51
  Speaker 5: To sell them.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Joe kill wee.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And here we go.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: What's up? Everybody? Welcome to episode number three and fifty
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: two of the Love and Women Podcast Hard Targets, And
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: just from perusing the comments, I see some people got
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: the inference. So very good. Good job, Paul, thank you,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: thank you. It is a little bit of a pun,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: if you will before we get started. Joe, A couple
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: of things. I too. I believe we discussed it a
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: little bit on the Wednesday show for members, But I too,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: just got a care package from our buddy Jeff at
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Silk City Hot Sauce, and I have in my hot
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: little hands a bottle of King's Karma smoked Maple Habit
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: narrow hot sauce. Ohh yeah, and I cannot wait to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: put this in my mouth.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: It's hot, bro, watch out, I gotta.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Wait till I have something to put it on. I
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: really just want to try.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: But well, as Irony would have it, your boy also
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: has it right next to him. And check what I've
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: made this morning, Rob, because you know I like my
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: breakfast sandwiches. Yes, you know the yolk hanging out of it.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I love the maple hobb and arrow. This was the
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: old Dahlia one on the left which I'm using. But
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the King's Karma is the new label of that which
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: we were speculating on. And you can see it kind
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: of flowing out of the top of the bagel there.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It is good, man, it is good. So I use
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: quote gunman for twenty percent off your hot sauce order.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I think I got it right that time.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: I think he's got some bundles over there, or you
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: can make your own bundle. We link is in the
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: description to this very video right here to order you
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: up some how you do it? Yeah, And another couple
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of things we were able to share with our members only. First,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: there's some new merch in the store.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Joe, I heard it yeah, we have.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: The new Jefferson Morley T shirt Morley's Home of the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Nothing Burger, hopefully some of you wear proudly in Dallas
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: this year. We also have you know, as sometimes we're
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: prone to tell people, Uh, we have the fuck off shirt.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and there's one I didn't tell you about
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and we didn't show it on Wednesday night.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Oh you've been busy.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I have been. It is actually a new Ruby design
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: you ready for?
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: No o hashtag Grab the damn Dog.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: That is really good. That is really good. And uh yes,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Rob says grab the damn dog at the as we
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: play the outro music.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: You can't call her anymore. I have to have to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: verbally tell Joe to grab the damn dog.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, all those designs are fresh up and new over
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: in the store. If you'd like to grab you one
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: and support the show, link is in the description, as
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: per the usual.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: That is awesome.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I love it, so Joe, welcome, Welcome some folks in
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: if you will please.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Sure mister Tray is present. Uh, Sally is here? How
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: are you? Sally? Sally A long long time, no talk.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: No, we do not need a Fairies hot sauce. Yeah,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you don't want to boof that one would be flying everywhere, although.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: It would be a good hot sauce, A good guy hot.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Sauce definitely be good.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: The double B is here. How are you? I think
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you already said hi to Paul. Mister Scott Edwards, we plenish,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I think meant he meant unintended, and my free ruby,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: oh nice, resplendent, and my free ruby teacher.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Don't use these big words, jos, no idea what they mean. No,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that word means, or you can
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: barely say them.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh south to west? How are you, sir? Tiny
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: one is ready? She is here. Let's see the time
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: stamp on.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Tiny ty seven one six Okay, I'll accept that time
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: close enough.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Mister Paul Leniici. How are you, sir? Mister Jack Taylor,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: how are you, Bunny? We were messaging yesterday in regards
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to the Epstein drama and we're a shit show.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: That is.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Anthony Thrip How are you, sir? The General Walker, the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: ultimate macho man turn anti hero gay icon. It is
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: ironic right, such a it is such a far right
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: figure would would.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Be gay and probably one of the most powerful power bottoms.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Ever to come out of this country.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And Rob the Double B coming in strong at the beginning,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: gifting five Spook level memberships.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you ma'am who got him?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Joe n K got one. I think he got one
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: before Richard Seep got one. D D Robert Corey Corey Canada.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe he joined our our live stream after.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: He frowned upon in Canada shirts as well in our.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Merchs A I was gonna say after they not frowned
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: upon in Canada episode and uh oh man, here we
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: go Colonello Valerio.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Or Valerio Valerio.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, so thank you the Double B you are the man.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Brandon kill it man. And I also
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: saw our buddy Lee Ralph uh upped his membership recently. Yeah,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: so thank you Lee the Bloody Bendez Yeah, break and
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I think there was one other and I don't want
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: to forget it. That's why I'm fastly looking it up
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Hello Moose Heaven and Timothy Ryan.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, DCO DCO thirty nine rejoined nice of course. Uh
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Lee Hill comes to play the Bloody Bendez. H Yeah,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Timothy Ryan, what's up?
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: What over up? So? Yeah? We uh you know, we
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the chat is popping, and uh, I guess we may
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: as well get started and stop.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: This episode is going to get popping. Airy second, Oh
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: all right, Joe. So, in doing some research for this topic,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I went a perusan through some books to see what
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I could find, and I came upon this book that
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I had not read before. I have it as a
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: PDF book, but I hadn't actually cracked it open and
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: looked at it. Now I've heard the name before. It's
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: called Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window by Connie Chritzburg.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Hm hmm.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. She was a Dallas Times Herald reporter in nineteen
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: sixty three. Okay, so she and she lived in Dallas
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: her whole life she h. I think at one point
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: lived like either across from hl Hunt or down the
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: street from hl Hunt.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: And uh.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So I've heard some things about about her, so I decided, okay, well,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: you know, let's see what she has to say about
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: this intriguing topic here that we're going to be covering tonight.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: So I was reading part of her chapter twenty and
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: it's called Deep d.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: As in Dallas.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Hopefully I reckon, I mean and and and it starts
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: off talking about Peter Gregory and Marina actually, and then
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: goes on to mention our buddy James Herbert Martin. Oh really, really, so.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: What does what does she say about the gentleman?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: We start off with this because it's a little interesting,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: shall we say, because Peter Gregory is the guy who
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: was basically acting as Marina's translator early on. Right, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: according to Connie, she says that Marina's earliest testimony was
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: distorted in translation by Peter Gregory, who took even more
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: steps leading to her control. Gregory's distortion in regard to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the description of Oswald's rifle was to supply the baseless
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: story already reported by Gregory's friend Mamantov of Oswald's dark
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and scopeless rifle the discrepancies while few changed her description
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  Speaker 2: of an ordinary rifle to the description in thevaded sentence.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Gregory was on to say that he assumed responsibility for
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  Speaker 2: delivering Marina into the hands of the Great Southwest Corporation,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: a real estate venture controlled in Dallas by the wealthy
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: family of Bedford Winn. Now Win is the w y
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: N N E Right, the Big hotel chain, the wind
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: uh Big and Vegas. They started out in Texas. I'm like, well, okay, Well,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: who the hell is the Great Southwest Corporation. Well, I'll
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: tell you, Joe. The six Flags in was owned by
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the Great South Southwest Corporation. So it goes on to say,
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  Speaker 2: here James Herbert Martin, a Great Southwest employee, okay, became
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  Speaker 2: Marina's first manager. When he was fired, William Kenzie, a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: lawyer from the Wind family which represented Great Southwest, became
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Marina's lawyer. Both men, along with other employees of Great Southwest,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: were responsible for highly questionable links between powerful Murchison oil
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: and construction interests in Texas. Further, Bedford Winn was the
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: subject of critical audit regarding his salary from Sweetwater Development,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: which was set up by the Murchisons TechCon Corporation through
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: the firm of win, Jaff and Tinsley. And it goes
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  Speaker 2: on to talk about how this Wind guy was part
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  Speaker 2: of the Bobby Baker set in Washington, all these other connections.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: All this was ignored by the Warr Commission. Was how
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Peter Gregory had the power to make phone calls which
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: led to Marina's stay at the Great Southwest Hotel. Also,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and I asked us how Gregory was selected as Marina's
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: interpreter on November twenty third. Now, through the course of
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: our investigation as James Herbert Martin, we know that it
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: was not Peter Gregory who orchestrated Marina stay at the hotel.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It was actually James Herbert Martin that reached out and
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: did it on his own. Unless Peter Gregory has some
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: kind of pull over James Herbert Martin that we don't
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  Speaker 2: know about.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, didn't he reach out to the fort Worth sheriff
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: It wasn't fort Worth, it was some other sheriff.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Now, another interesting thing is that in Larry Crayford's notebook
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: or own book, okay, and Larry Crayford, of course, was
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the guy who was staying at Jack Ruby's Carousel Club,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: helping him out with the business there being as little
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: lackey as a little gopher, and the guy responsible for
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of these Oswald and Ruby sightings together. Because
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the guy was a young guy and he kind of
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: resembled Oswald but not really but at a distance maybe,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of thing. Larry Crayford had William Mackenzie's
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: new telephone number in his notebook. Interesting, interesting, not quite sure.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: What to make of that.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I don't either, but it seemed to me like this
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: William mackenzie guy, this high falutin lawyer for these big
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: swinging dick oil guys, couldn't afford a lawyer like William mackenzie,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: not at all, if I'm being honest.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think he could have afforded any lawyer.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I don't even think Zach Ruby could have afforded William McKenzie,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. And I think Gregory translated for her
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: at the warrant commission, and I think, you know, it
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: might have been a bonus episode on solving JFK recently
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: talking about Marina's last interview, and she alluded to something
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: like that, saying that the translation wasn't accurate whatever last
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: TV show she went on. I don't know if it
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: was the nineties or so she eluded. She says, like,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't actually say that, Yes, And I think Gregory
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: or his son was a translator in a lot of
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: those situations. So interesting.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Another interesting thing that Crayford had in his notebook the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: name Pete White, Okay, Pete. He was a former district
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: attorney in Dallas, and this guy got a pistol carrying
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: charge dismissed against Jack Ruby, and White also ran into
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Ruby on November twentieth, nineteen sixty four. Larry Schmidt often
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: sixty three, Yeah, must, I don't know it's footnoted, but
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I did not print it out.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Got it sixty three because he would have been in
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: jail on sixty four? Yeah?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Possibly. Larry Schmidt, often written about as an out of,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: out of Dallas entrepreneur who helped organize the black Bordered
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: ad which appeared in the Dallas Morning News on November
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: twenty second, had helped from General Edwin Walker, who could
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: have hardly been an unknown to any Dallas site. I'm
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the only person in Schmidt's group who was indicted on
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: criminal charges related to the ad was a man named
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Robert Hatfield. This guy, Robert Hatfield, hired Pete White to
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: represent him. Schmidt's cabal CUSA Conservatism USA included the local
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: chapter of the right wing Young Americans for Freedom, which
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: included Warren Carroll, described by Schmidt as a scriptwriter for
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: hl Hunt's right wing A radio show. Okay, so we
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: learned here that Schmidt's c USA member in charge of
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: public relations in art friends Inswald was that the Bedford
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: win pr Agency. So all these extreme right wingers are
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: somewhat interconnected somehow. The weird thing is, why does Larry
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Crayford have Marina's lawyer's number in his book.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: That's a little hot, seems above his pay grade. It's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: just a little bit, just a little bit like a
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: former Carnie right.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the way, the night that before the assassination,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: when Jack Ruby was at the hotel, the Cabana, they
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: were having a little shin dig there, right, Well, Connie
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Chritsberg was there, really yeah, and saw Jack Ruby there.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: She has a picture taken with one of these Vegas
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: lounge singer act type dudes, you know, like Frankie Valley
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: or it's not Frankie Valley, but.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I got you.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In her book there's a picture of her with
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: this guy at the Cabana the night before the assassination.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: So she was like a Dallas social light that was,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of weaving in and out of things.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And I believe her complete story is that because I
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: have not read the book in its entirety, but I
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: believe there's something like she wanted to write a story
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: about some aspect of the assassination, and they wouldn't let
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: her or she did. She turned it in and then
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: they shit candied without telling her and didn't run it.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: It was something weird like that.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Oh right, that that was a newspaper article for the.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Dallas Morning News, No for the Times, Harold.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, but yes, that that that story does does ring
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a bell? Yeah, yeah, okay, that's so that's the same woman. Interesting.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: What she doing there? Tim tim Ryan says, that's a
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: good question. I was thinking the same dressed.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Very nicely for you know, an out I don't know. Yeah,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: she was trying to get some d SOMEPD. So now
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: that brings us to uh, something I found in the
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: book Reasonable Doubt by uh Henry Hurt. And Henry Hurt
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: used to be the editor for Reader's Digest magazine, you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: so he does have some legitimate bona fides as far
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: as being legitimate, you know, and not some national acquiry type,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And when he was writing
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: his book, he tried to interview as many of the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: players as possible. And we've talked about him before because
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: it's a very good book for the time. The early eighties.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: But the interesting thing about Warren Reynolds, so let's get
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to this real quick. So Warren Reynolds, at the time
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: of the Tippet shooting was working at his brother's car
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: lot on Jefferson Street, you know, like around the corner.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And he said, they were listening to the radio and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: they were listening to news about the president had just
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: been shot, and then all of a sudden, they hear
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: gunshots out the window and apparently he's upstairs in this
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: car lot. So there was a couple of other people
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: working at the car lot, we'll get to them here
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: in a second, who saw the shooter running away, and
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Warren Reynolds tried to follow the shooter, but the shooter
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: ended up losing him after they went around the corner.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: He lost him. Now, the other people that heard the
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: shots went to the scene of the Tippet murder and
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: you know, they were trying to help out there. But
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Warren Reynolds tried to follow the shooter, whoever it was.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: If it was Oswald, it was Oswald, but he lost him.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, nobody talked to this guy for two months.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: It's like January or something, right.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it wasn't even the Dallas police to talk
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: to this guy. It was the FBI. So they went
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: and talked to him, I think in January twenty first,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and they shwed him some pictures and he said, you
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: know that he thought that, you know, the guy he
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: saw was Oswalt, but he wasn't one hundred percent sure,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: you know, he couldn't say for sure. Well, two days later,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: after the FBI talks to him, he ends up getting
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: shot in the head while he's closing the uh the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: car lot down one night. Now, apparently it wasn't a
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: very bad shot. The way he describes it, which we'll
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: see here in a second, is it. He says it
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: went in his temple and came out like his cheek
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: or we got lodged here and they were able to
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: remove it like right here.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: He got lucky. I don't know. But then after that,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and after speaking to a man that would uh quickly
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: become a mentor for Warren Reynolds, and that man would
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: be General Edwin Walker. Walker was being called before the
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission, and at Walker's urging, he urged Warren Renolds
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: to reach out to the Commission to take his testimony
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: because what he had to say he thought was important
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: because now he was sure that the man that he
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: saw was Lee Harvey Oswald running away from the scene
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: of the Tippet shooting. So in internal memos for the
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission, they said, look, this guy wants us to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: interview him, you know, give him what he's saying. We should.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: We should probably go ahead and interview him. Let's set
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: him up, bring him in. Blah blah blah blah. So
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: that's how he got heart and that's why we have
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: his testimony in there. So let's see. We're gonna watch
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a little video here. Joe Nice love Warren Reynolds.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Nice. I was hoping hoping you had that. I had
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a cue in case you didn't. But slacker Dan, howdy, friends,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: we thank you for re upping in the beginning of
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: You know we did. But that's okay, Oh that was
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: that was im.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Sorry. I think I think he's a spoof though, But
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: how are you, sir?
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: But this is a good video, yep. So here we go.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: This is Warren Reynolds being interviewed by the local news channel.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: And when he got to the corner there, well, he
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: put the gun in his bell like this, and then
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: he walked up the street.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: And what did you do? Well?
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: I ran out to where I was, even with him,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: and then I I walked on the opposite side of
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: the street, even with him. When he got to the
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: service station, he went behind it, and I ran over
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: and went behind it too. But I couldn't find it.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I looked in the.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Cars, under the cars, I couldn't find it. Were you
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: were you actually trying to catch him or just keep
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: up with you? Just keep up with him?
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: And what happened then?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Evidently he got away and the police came.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: And I went on back to work.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Well, when I walked in.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I want to turn these lights off. I turned these
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: first two switches before a.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: Man shot me that was hidden right behind me, and
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: then I ran out of the building.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Did you get a look at the man? Not a
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: good look.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Did you see him to be able to tell anything
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: about him?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Know?
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: So that is that?
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: And the thing that sticks out to me about that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Rob is he said the guy was hiding like in weight, right. Yeah,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that would mean it's pre planned, right, It's not you're
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: leaving on you know, you're you're leaving the garage and
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: some scafusa shoots you in the street randomly. The way
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: he describes it seems like it's someone was planning.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Was Yeah, but it's weird. If he's shot in the
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: temple and it's lodge down here, it would seem to
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: me like that the gun needs to be the way
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: held up here pointing down in order for that to happen,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: unless unless it went bang bang boom and bounced around
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: and ship it was a twenty two mm hmm, so
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: maybe the ricocheted inside his face or something. I don't know.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: It's a weird angle anyway.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Well, Rob, what you brought up a really good point
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: a few weeks ago when we were talking about ballistics
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: and how maybe some of the bullets weren't fully made
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: correctly with the right amount of AMMO. Right, I mean,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: you're thinking a twenty two to the head close range,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you're done. Maybe it was one of those bullets that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: that that you know, was a dut or didn't have
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: enough gun power powder to I don't know, I don't know.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Normally a twenty two it's just gonna rattle around inside
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: your skull. It's not gonna you know, it just doesn't
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: have enough power to do much, but from close rains
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: like that, who knows, you know. Now, there are some
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: odd discrepancies about Warren Reynolds's story, and we'll get into
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: him here. So when Reynolds heard the shots, he went
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: out onto a porch and looked in that direction. He
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: saw a man running towards him, stuffing a pistol under
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: his belt like he just told us. Hoping to be
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: an assistant to the police, Reynolds rushed down to the
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: street and followed the gunman. He lost him after about
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a block when the guman ducked behind a building. Reynolds
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: did not at that time know the shooting know what
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: the shooting was about. He had assumed it was some
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: kind of domestic dispute. His aim was to be able
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: to help the police later when it turned out the
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: shooting was linked to the assassination of Kennedy Reynolds. Oak
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Cliff section of town was invaded by the press, and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Reynolds openly gave interviews and made no secret of what
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: he had seen. Indeed, he might have been the best
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: of available witness for identifying the fleeing gunman. However, two
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: months passed before any official investigative agency asked him a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: single question. It was January twenty first when the FBI
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: agents finally would to see him, showed him a photograph
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: of Oswald and asked if Oswald was the fleeing gunman.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: The FBI report stated that Reynolds said he was of
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: the opinion the man was Oswald, but stated that he
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: could not definitely identify Oswald as the individual. Two days later,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: he shot in the temple, the bullet passing through much
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: of his head. Miraculously, he survived and was able to
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: testify before the Warren Commission six months later. With a
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: passage of time, his memory had suddenly improved. He was certain,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: beyond the slightest doubt that the man he saw fleeing
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the Tippe Seine was Lee Harvey Oswald. At least that's
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: what he told the Warren Commission after speaking at length
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: multiple times to General Edwin Walker. Whether reynolds earlier testimony
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: was connected to the attempt on his life is not known.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Reynolds believes that it was, and the case has never
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: been solved. Now, one of our favorite characters in the world,
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: d Ago, was accused of this crime because our boy
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Darryl Wayne Garner was let's just say, one of the
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: seatier characters in town, and a couple of days prior
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: to this, apparently he had tried to sell a car
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: to them that was stolen that he didn't have the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: right paperwork for and they refused to buy it from him,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: so they figured, you know that that could possibly be
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: a motive for him to do this, But he was
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: given an alibi by a Nancy Jane Mooney said, oh no,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: he was dicking me down all night long. He was
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: nowhere near that Johnny Walker car a lot, Johnny Reynold's
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: car lot. And then, of course, the funny thing is
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks later, suddenly Nancy Mooney is arrested
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: for a domestic dispute with her roommate, taken to jail,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and she hangs herself after being in jail for an
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: hour by her jeans, as if a domestic squabble is
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: so bad you need to kill yourself in jail. Yeah,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: But apparently she had tried to unlive herself at least
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: four other times or I'm sorry three other times, had
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: different methods, but was unsuccessful. Apparently she had four kids
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: at the age of by the age of twenty four,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: that she didn't have custody of any of them. So
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: maybe her life was in shambles or was so bad
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: that she wanted to do what she did. It still
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: seems a little suspect to me, you know.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Now there's a footnote in Henry Hurt's book because this
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: is the only guy that I could find other than
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: the other video. We're gonna watch here in a second
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to ever and if you want to call this a
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: successful try to interview Warren Reynolds. It says here in
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, the author sought out Reynolds, who simply
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: smiled refuse to discuss any aspect of the matter when asked.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't even talk to Henry Hurt. Hm. So I
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: gave him the old FU. Apparently, don't know what's that
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: that's about.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: James said, she got Epstein.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Got something. Now, Reynolds says he here's part of where
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: we kind of go off the rails with the Warren
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Reynolds story. So Reynolds testified to the Warrant Commission that
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: he said, I know this man was waiting for three
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: and a half hours in the basement where I work,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: and when I I went down to turn off the
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: lights in the basement where he had taken the light
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: globe out of the room. I went in there, more
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: or less in the dark, to turn off the light.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: It is a switchboard, and when I walked up to
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: it and turned two switches, this man couldn't hardly have
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: been over a foot from me with the rifle, and
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: he shot me. When he shot me, I ran upstairs.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I went around to the right about twenty feet and
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: got a towel to stop the blood. And when I
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: turned around to go call police, I had assumed all
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the time that I had been electrocuted or something for
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: some silly reason, never dreaming that I had been shot.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: But when I saw the man run off, I figured
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: right there I must have been shot. So I ran
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: on in and I called the police. Now it does
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: ask some pertinent questions here. How could a potential assassin
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: enter a basement of a company and just sit down
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: there for three and a half hours? And how did
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Warren Reynolds know that the assailant had been down there
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: for three and a half hours?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: That was my question. How did you know that three
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: and a half is a specific time? Why don't you
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: say three or four.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then the other question is why did Reynolds
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: go downstairs in the dark to turn off a light
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: that wasn't on?
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? The guy he said that like he unscrewed
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the bulb for right, you know?
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: And right? So why is Reynolds going in the basement
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: to turn off a light that isn't on?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Doesn't make sense?
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: It's weird, right. And another question, why would somebody try
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: to commit a murder with a rifle at a distance
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: of one foot? It would make a very loud noise,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: attract a lot of attention, and it's not the easiest
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: thing to hide going in or out, especially getting away.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Ideally you would use a handgun.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And the way he termed it was Reynolds said
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: he survived by being shot, not shot in the head,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: but through the head. I don't know now. We saw
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: the video clip right where he said that he didn't
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: get a good look at the person that did that, right,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: that's what he said. Yet we managed to describe the
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: person as this around five foot four, which would stand
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: out because that's pretty damn short, short around I'm sorry.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: One was either Spanish or Cuban or Indian, but not Negro.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Now that's a lot of information for somebody that you
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: didn't see. That's some very specific information. I mean, it
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: certainly disqualifies Dago from being the alleged shooter, but it
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: does put someone of possible Cuban or Latin extraction as
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: being the possible gunman. And for what reason. This is
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: of course after talking to General Walker that he came
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: up with this description. So there's that. So yeah, we
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: talked about the whole Nancy Mooney thing. Okay, not nobody,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: not the FBI, the Dallas Police, or the Warrant Commission
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: thought there was anything strange about the shooting of Warren
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Reynolds or the hanging of Betty Mouey McDonald in the
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Dallas jail. It was a clear cut link to the
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: murder of Tippett, and nobody cared. Let's see what's about
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Darryl Garner. And there was some confusion by Sylvia Marr
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: of all people, who normally doesn't make these kind of mistakes,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: but she mixed up a Betty McDonald with Betty Mooney McDonald,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: which is important because Betty Florence, whose real name was
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Florence McDonald, was actually at the Magnolia party that Ruth
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Payne and Michael Payne met the Oswalds at, and George
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Demoid was there. Oh, so it was kind of high falutin,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: definitely out of the league of a stripper, okay, with
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: four kids, and I'm sure not very nice teeth to
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: be at. But Sylvia Marr made that mistake, so that's
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: not good. Yeah. Betty's actual name was Florence. She was
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the McDonald about whom George de Morrinshield testified that the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: name was familiar to him and that she was at
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty three party given Missus Everett Glover with
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the Oswalds attended with the des morn Shields. Florence McDonald
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: was a librarian at Magnolia Oil, a subsidiary of Mobile
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Oil Company. The account given by Ruth Payne says that
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: she saw McDonald at a meeting Ruby had to McDonald's
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: stripping for him of Betty Mooney McDonald also known as
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Nancy Jane Mooney, and Joyce McDonald otherwise known as joy Dale.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: But these appear to be different women, and this has
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: confused researchers for years. Like Joe.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: So did the girl that hung herself in the jail cell.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Was she the actual stripper? That was she did she
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: actually work for Jack Ruby? Because I read earlier in
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: preparation for this episode that it was confused and she wasn't.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: No, she it was it was okay that we know
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: which here's where it gets confusing. Okay, So apparently there
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: is a Dallas Municipal Archives and Record Center that has
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: a listing of names of all the a g VA employees,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: which is the Actors Guild and Variety or something association,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and they have a listing in the Dallas Municipal Archives
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: for Marylynd Moon, twenty four years old, divorced with one child,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: with the name of Miranda and also her name she
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: danced uner the name Delilah in parentheses, but no other name.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: For a McDonald or a McDonald the police lister names
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: spelled differently. It's Marlon Moon or Maryland Miranday won twenty
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: heally in Dallas. Joy Dale also has a card but
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: no real name. One week after she Alibi Garner, Betty
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: was incarcerated for fighting with Patsy Swote Moore, her roommate,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: and for reasons best understood by Dallas police, Moore was
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: never arrested but MacDonald promptly hung herself in jail. The
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: FBI was not told about this, even though they were
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: still investigating the deaths of Oswald, Tippett and Kennedy. Now,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: all this comes and stems from a national news story
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that was written about this whole thing by a guy
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: named Bob Consandine, who was a big swinging dick reporter
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: from New York. And when he found out about this
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: whole Warren Reynolds, Garner Nancy Mooney's story, he wrote a
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: national story about it, which is basically what pushed the
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission over the edge in bringing Warren Reynolds in
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and talking to him. The Warren Report found there was
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: no connection between the bullet Reynolds received in the head
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and the assassination of Kennedy or the murder of Tippett.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Reynolds thought that was bullshit. He told mac Pate, who
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: knew him well, that he was certain that he had
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: been shot because of his failure to identify Oswalt, and
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: that he had now changed his mind, and that it
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: was impossible to tell or Butt that it was impossible
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: to tell who it was. He was too far away,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: and I was the closest of the witnesses. Reynolds also
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: stated that the person who had shot him in the
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: head appeared to be Cuban, So basically he's telling a
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: close friend of him his did he really couldn't identify Oswald, Okay,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: but that from everything everybody's telling him, it had to
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: be Oswald. So after being shot in the head, he
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: changed what he was telling people, so it was definitely
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Oswald because he thought that that's possibly why he was
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: shot at.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, could I ask you a question because I was
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: thinking about this earlier today. You know the tipt witnesses, right,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: they were a mess, right, just look at Helen Markham
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: and I mean everyone, you can go down the list.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think that Reynolds's account would have been so
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: damning to risk, say, killing him over this change of
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: minor story, you know, change the story. That's what I
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: was thinking of today.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I mean there's many witnesses who
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: said it was Oswalden, there's many witnesses is that they
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: couldn't tell who it was. There's even some that said
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: there were two people or gave a different description of
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: the shooter than Oswald, which brings us to another Tippet
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: witness named Dimengo Benavives whose brother was killed. I believe
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: in in I think it was in January sixty four. No, yeah,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: and he thought that because they kind of looked like
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: so he had thought that it was meant for him,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: you know, because of what he's what he saw, right.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: But there is an interesting connection between Warren Reynolds and
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Domingo Benavie. Actually, Reynolds was close to members of the
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Benavides family. Domingo Benavide's sister gave Reynolds gave Reynolds's business
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: address as her residence when she applied for a marriage
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: license in June of nineteen sixty three, and no, she
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: did not work there at the time. So Warren Reynolds
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and Domingo Benavitte's sister apparently were close friends and put
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: the Johnny Reynolds car a Lot as her home residence
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: when she applied for a marriage license in June of
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: sixty three. Domingo Benavides worked directly across the street from
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: the Reynolds used car a lot. It is likely that
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the identity of his assailant as a Cuban was suggested
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: to Reynolds by Domingo or some member of the family,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: as Bill Poulten suggested, But if the Cubans on Harlandale
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: had killed Tippett, they would kill the witnesses. Of course,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: who knows, you know. And here's the funny thing. So
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: remember when I told you that Warren Reynolds was the
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: only guy to run after Tippet's killer, and that the
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: other employees ran to the scene of the Tippet shooting. Well,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: one of the guys who ran to the scene of
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: the tipp Of shooting was a guy named Harold Russell,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: and he worked at Johnny Reynolds car lot, and he
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: ran to the scene of the Tippet shooting when they
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: heard shot.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Johnny Reynolds, being Warren Reynolds's brother, I guess the official
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: of the carlot.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Both men saw the killer running away with a gun
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: in his hand, but didn't think it was Oswald at
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: the time when they saw Oswald's pictures. Russell was beaten
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to death by police in Oklahoma in nineteen sixty seven.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: One report said that he was killed by a policeman
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: with a revolver on July twenty third, nineteen sixty five,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: in sul For, Oklahoma, where mister Willis Price saw Oswald
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: with cubans the weekend before the assassination.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Like like he Cole Cockton with the with the butt
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: of the pistol and beat him to death.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he banistered like banistered pistol whip Jack Martin got it.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: But that's a little odd, right, And oh, by the way,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Connie Chrisburg, the chicki wrote the book, one of her
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: co workers was Jim Cothy, one of the guys who
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: was at Ruby's apartment the night and he was killed
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: by police. Can't remember if he was shot by the
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: police or he was the karate chop victim. I can't remember.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it might have been the karate chop guy.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And you're talking about the meeting of the people at
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Ruby's apartment on November twenty fourth.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this guy Russell was either killed in sixty
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: five or sixty seven. There's two different reports. And apparently
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: there was a report or something where the FBI took
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: information from a mister Willis Price who said he witnessed
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Oswald with cubans the weekend before the assassination in Oklahoma.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Which it's a hard sell, right, I don't know how
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: much of that you believe.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Well, It's funny that you mentioned Oklahoma, because when we
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: got into William Duff he felt to Oklahoma.
• 51:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Thomas Beckham, interesting, Hey, PSV Odyssey, how are you
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: driving and listening?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: That works too?
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah, Sorry, I'm getting through this, uh okay parts
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: because a lot of there's not really not much of
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the warn rental story, and a lot of it gets
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: repeated and repeated and repeated again, right, and most much
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: of it is the same. So here's an interesting FBI
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: report I found from March nineteenth, sixty four. And guess
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: who it is? Written by Joe He's a special agent.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: In March of sixty four.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and somebody Dallas. Yeah's somebody who shouldn't be in
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Dallas in March of sixty four unless.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Debris No Kennedy Regis Kennedy, the guy.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Who went to talk to Oswald after his arrest for
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: the street fracas Agent Quickly. Oh so what is the
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: agent Quickly doing in Dallas investigating Warren Reynolds in March
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: of sixty four? So it says Captain Oa Jones of
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: the Forgery Forgery Bureau. Dallas Police Department made available the
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: following information on January twenty third, at nine to fifteen pm,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Warren Reynolds and employee of the Johnny Reynolds Motor Company.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: After pulling the keys out of all the cars and
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: locking them, walk down to the office basement to turn
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: out all the light. Okay, so maybe he did go
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: down there to turn off all the lights of the
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: car light, but the light in the fixture down there
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: was unscrewed, so that makes a little more sense, yeah,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: than just having to walk down there and turn a
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: light off. He flipped the light swish at the door
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: of the basement. However, the basement remained dark. Thinking the
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: light was burned out, he proceeded downstairs to the basement
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: fuse box. As he reached for the fuse box, he
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: was shot in the head with a twenty two caliber weapon. Reynolds,
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: not knowing if he'd received an electrical shock or had
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: been shot, started up the stairway, and at this point
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: an unknown, small white male carrying a rifle ran past
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: him on the stairs. Reynolds proceeded out of the building,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: fell over the hood of a vehicle near the office door,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: and then entered the office. Tried to use the telephone
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: and fell over a couch. Sonny Carty, a guy that
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: lived at four to twenty five Jefferson Apartment five, was
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: watching television when he heard a shot coming from the
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: direction of the Reynolds Motor Company. He ran down the
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: hall to the balcony and observed in the bright light
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: of the motor company car lot a white male five
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: five wearing brown khaki trousers a blue flowered shirt, carrying
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: a rifle run out the rear of the car lot
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: and then south on the in the two hundred block
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: of South Patton. Now varn Reynolds had turned lights out
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: on a switch, then there shouldn't have been a bright
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: light of the motor company car lot.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: But okay, blue flowered shirt.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Interesting choice of Well we go from a five foot
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: three or I'm sorry, a five foot four, dark skinned
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Latino or Cuban, but not a negro.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, now this guy's wearing a
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: khaki tree housers and a blue flowered shirt. So CARTI
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: then saw Reynolds staggering up to the office and then
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: observed a white compact car believed to be a Plymouth Valiant,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: containing two men and a woman in the front seat
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: in front of the car lot Cardi raced down the
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: hall and down the stairs, by which time the vehicle
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: was gone already. He ran over to assist Reynolds, who
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: advised Carti he did not know what had happened. A
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: missus Christine Jeffreys, an apartment one on one at four
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: to twenty nine East Twelfth Street, advised she had just
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: walked out to park owned about five six. So this
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: guy's growing like an inch by every time. Somebody sees
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: him running down the street towards her from the direction
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: of the Reynolds Motor Company car lot, waving a rifle.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: The man ran down an alley and disappeared from her site.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Investigating police officers located reynolds broken glasses and a twenty
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: two rifle bullet on the floor of the Reynolds Motor
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Company basement, and a blood trail leading over the route
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: traveled by Reynolds to the couch. Also was determined that
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Reynolds was not robbed of anything. L. J. Lewis of Hume,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: a salesman at Reynolds Motor Company, advised the light bulb
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: had been screened.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Can I stop you for a second, I just want
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: to talk about what you just said. Was that lady
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Caroline something. She said she saw someone five six, right,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: but Reynolds described him as five to four. Those are estimations.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: And if she said she saw this guy running with
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: a rifle, which we had just discussed would have been
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: much more efficient with a handgun, that kind of lends
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: some credence to Reynolds's, you know, a description of events.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: No, well, they could tell by the bullet it was
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: from rifle, right, But.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: She said she saw this guy who's pretty short five
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: six four four or five four like that. Her estimation
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: could be an inch or two off. That's not right, Yeah,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: six two right, He's definitely short, right, But that's kind
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: of like corroborating in a sense. No, with a rifle and.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Guy, So the guy that came to forget him. The
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: only thing differing is Warren Reynolds thinks he was a
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: dark skinned Cuban type. McCarty, who came to help him,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: says it was a white guy five five, and Christine
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: just says it was a small male race.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Unknown God God, okay, thank you. So. L. J.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Lewis, who was another salesman at the Reynolds Motor Company,
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: advised that the light bulb had been screwed out the
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: night before the shooting. I guess he noticed it but
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: didn't fix it. On January twenty third, Johnny Reynolds of
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: westle Park Parkway, brother of Warren, if I see, was
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: at home at the time of the shooting, and the
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Warren usually closed a lot at night. On January twenty fourth,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Daryl Wayne Garner, also known as Dago of one thousand
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: and six North Bishop, a white male aged twenty four
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: born January first, nineteen forty five foot eight Joe five eight,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: was arrested at Toppers Cafe three point fifteen East Jefferson
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: and charged with investigation, assault to murder, and drunk and disorderly.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Garner had been talking about how sorry the Reynolds brothers
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: were and that Warren Reynolds had received what he deserved.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Garner had been to the Reynolds Motor Company lit on Monday,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: January twentyth attempting to sell in nineteen fifty seven Old
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: was mobile for which he did not have the title,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: and became extremely upset when the Reynolds would not purchase
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: the vehicle. The day after the shooting, January twenty fourth, Joe,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: an anonymous telephone caller advised Johnny Reynolds on the phone
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: to go see Dago and then.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Hung up, So that would possibly indicate that it was
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: not related to being a witness and the Tippet murder.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: It would be argument over a car.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: No, supposedly, right, what would that just alludes to?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: God?
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're really conspiratorial, you know, you could say, well,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: from our illustrious, illustrious interviews that we've done with Dago
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: and his ties to both Jack Ruby and Oswald, what
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: is he really doing here? Who knows. It's all a
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: little sketchy, but it sounds like something he would do,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: especially if he's out riding around drunk with a couple
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: of his friends and a couple of his beaches. You know, hey,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: let's go scare the shit out of Warren Reynolds. Give
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: me that rifle. Watch this. You know, they probably didn't
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: even like shoot at him. They probably just shot it
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: and it ricocheted something to hit him in the head,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: and then they got scared and ran up out of it.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, this guy's passing Warren Reynolds on
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: the stairs to get the hell out of the basement
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: and running away with a rifle. Well, doesn't sound to
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: me like it was a legitimate attack, if you will.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: It sounds to me like they were just trying to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: scare the shit out of him, you know what I mean.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: And it went horribly wrong. Yeah, and it could have
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: went horribly worse.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, no ricochet makes sense to me. It's whatever.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: As we're talking about. It was determined that Garner owned
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: a sixty one white Ford Falcon, which looks a lot
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: like a Plymouth Valiant, which was also white, seen at
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: the scene while he was in the process of purchase,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: which he was in the process of purchasing from a
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Weldon McGowan of sixty one nine North wind Netka. A
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Missus Dahlia Garner, mother of Darryl, advised Daryl does not
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: generally reside at her house and is presently living in
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: his car. Excuse me. Missus Garner stated Daryl was a
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: mentally unstable person and she did not desire to have
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: him hanging around and influencing her other boys, Ricky aged
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: sixteen and Ernie aged nineteen. Oh. By the way, Joe,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: a twenty two rifle Marlon Model eighty dash DL was
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: obtained in the search of one thousand and six North
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Bishop's Dago's home. Yeah, yes, yes, Darryl advised. On the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: night of January twenty third, he was driving around in
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: his car with Audie Anderson, a white male eighteen, and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: they picked up Nancy Jane Mooney also known as Betty MacDonald,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: a white female, and Helen Wolfschlager, a white female of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: North Windmeyer, in front of the Poodle Salon on Jefferson
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Avenue between Beckley and Dangs at about nine pm. The
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: four drove across the river and got some beer. Now
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: this matches the description of the white car with three
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: people waiting in it and that they saw the driver
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: get in the car and go or the shooter. Right,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: we're matching up here, right, So they were just driving around,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: They went across the river and got some beer. When
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: coming back from across the river, they heard on the
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: radio about a shooting on East Jefferson. Now that's bullshit.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: That kind of news doesn't happen that quick and go
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: out on the radio that quick, you know what I mean?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unless you have like police scanners, right, which they
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: did not. Right, Right, there's Suffuza's driving around drinking beer.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: So Nancy Mooney wanted to go see what happened. So
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: they drove around near the Reynolds Motor Company car lot
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: for about five minutes and then the left. So they
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: had to come up with an alibi for why this
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: car was seen near the Warren Reynolds car lot that night.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: That's a bullshit story if I've ever heard one. They
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: drove around town for a while and then took Helen
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: home around ten thirty. Darryl and Audie dropped Nancy at
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: her place at three point thirty in the morning after
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: they had a threesome on January twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: But this son of a bitch is so smooth, Joe,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: and I'm talking about d Ago. He passed a polygraph
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: examination on January twenty seventh, and not only him, his
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: brother Ricky, his brother Ernie, and Audie Anderson all took
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: light detective tests and were all judged to be telling
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: the truth and released.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: Wow, so.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Pretty slick shit here.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: So Dgo's brother was also arrested for this.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: They were questioned question Yeah, but.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: I think d A. G. O Was was held for
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: He was held for a little bit, No, for a
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: few days or something.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Nancy was his alibi was he was me right,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: But this is what it sounds like to me is
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: they went out and got drunk, figured that you know,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: they were gonna screw with the Warren Renolds or whoever.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: So whoever was turning the lights all of that night
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: scared the ship out of them because you know, pissed
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: him off. They didn't buy the car or whatever. Right,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: and it went wrong, went wrong and you know, yeah,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: but you know d a g O so smooth, Joe,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: he can pass a lot detect the tests. All right,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: So let's watch one more video with Warren Reynolds when
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: he was interviewed by Mark Lane. And I think this
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: was in sixty six. Okay, so a couple of years
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: after all right, here we go and I don't know, man,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know if the bullet messed with this guy
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: or what. But you'll see what I mean. Okay, he
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: looks to be uh, he looks very talented with his tongue. Joe,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: I'll just say that, here we go Born Rentals.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: Mister Reynolds, where are you employed at the Giant Rentals
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: Motor Company?
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: And we're working there on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Yes, sir,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: how close is the used car lot which you work
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: to the scene of the type of killing one blow?
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Were were there at about one o'clock on the twenty second, Yes, sir,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: And then what happened? What did you see? What did
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: you hear?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: We were listening to the radio about the assassination and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: we heard these shots and we ran out on this
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: porch and we saw this gunman running up the street
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: and I followed him for a block until I lost him.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: And then I was going back to the US Carlan,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 4: and this policeman stopped me and asked me what had happened?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: And I had I told him that I had seen
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: this man with the gun and I had followed him
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: and I lost him. So he took the description in
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: my name and.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: And while I was talking to him in some television
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: camera was taking the pictures. So and after that I
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: went on back to the US Carlin.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: Were you questioned by the agents of the Federal Bureau
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: of Investigation or the United States Secret Service during November
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty three, No, I sure wouldn't. Were you were
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: questioned by FBI agents the Secret Service agents during December
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixty three. No, sir, were you questioned by FBI
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: agents or Secret Service agents during January sixty four? Yes?
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Here I was.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: When was that, sir?
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: That was on January the twenty first?
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: Two agents come out and they talk to me and
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: ask me what I had seen, and I told 'em
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: and they showed me three pictures.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: You were questioned by agents of the FBI on January
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: twenty first, sixty four.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Then what happened two days after that?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 4: And I was closed enough to use Carlot one night? Uh,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: when I went downstairs to turn off the lines, some
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: gunman was hidden down there and he shot me. He
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: shot me through the glasses. I right here in l
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: and the bullet los right over here. Mister Reynolds.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Who knew about your question by the FBI between the
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: time that you were actually questioned by them and the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: t time that he was shot two days later?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Just brands and of course my family.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: The Commission concluded on page six sixty three of its
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: report that it was wild speculation for anyone to think
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: that there might have been a connection between the fact
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: that you were shot in January and the fact that
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: you observed the gunman flee from the tippet scene.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: So that is part of the interview.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Rocket Queen Colleen. Okay, he is looking at something, and
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: it does look like he's looking at off camera for
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: confirmation of something or looking.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Over General Walker's d.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think you're right Colling. He's
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: looking at something. I don't know, of course, don't know
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: what it is. And I want to say one thing
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: I had commented James Smith said that scenario that you
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: laid out, Rob seems way more likely.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. I'm a very astute speculator.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he is a smooth skuffoosa. I love it,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: love it. That's that's all.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: So the reason we get here and connect the two,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: that being Warner Warren Reynolds to General Edwin Walker, is
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: because Warren Reynolds reached out to General Walker upon hearing
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: the possibility, ah that Oswald was the possible shooter at
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: General Walker. Because I believe that allegation, you know, came
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: out in like early December sixty three, and I don't
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: know how much you know, attention. Warren Reynolds was paying
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: the things until he got shot in the head. But
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Warren Reynolds was a right winger you know, he liked guns,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: he liked you know, all that stuff, and highly respected
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: General Walker and his ideals. So after he was shot
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: in the head, he reached out to General Walker to
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: speak to him and run ideas by him, and I
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: guess affirm in his mind that this was somehow connected
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: to the Kennedy assassination. And after talking to Walker and
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: visiting in his house a couple of times, many times, actually,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: Walker was convinced that, oh, he had definitely had something.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: And you could see Walker's Warren commissioned testimony that he
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: believes that everything is somehow connected. And you know, they
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: keep trying to say, well, General Walker, you know, you're
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: just merely speculating at all of this, and He's like,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: maybe so, but this is what I believe, you know,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: it had to be this way kind of thing. So
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: very interesting stuff, Joe, And I don't know if Warren
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: Reynolds was a little light in the loafers, if you
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Apparently he had a family, or
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: at least he had a daughter, because a couple of
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: weeks later, in February of nineteen sixty four, his daughter
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: was approached walking home from school and was tried to
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: be lured into a car. Hey, hey, little girl, you're
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: so pretty, look at you. Would you like some candy?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: Pretty good? Like he needs some candy, Come on over here.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: You do that so well.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: Practice makes perfect, Joe. You know, he was kidding. Somebody
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: tried to lure his kid a kidnapper, and then somebody
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: was also unscrewing his porch light bulbs at his house.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: So like he went and bought like a security system.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: He went and bought like some guard dogs. I don't
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: know if you put up cameras or sirens or I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: don't know if he puts something up floodlights. Like, he
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: went overboard, and he thought that somebody was after him,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: and it was all tied in somehow to Oswald and
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: the assassination and all this shit. And then got General
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: Walker in his ears saying, yeah, tell him it was
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: It was so and who knows. I think it was
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: just a really bad prank the guy out of hand,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: and it it was all just a big coincidence that
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: somehow this guy just managed to chase Oswald for a block,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: you know, on November twenty second, sixty three, and that
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: all this is unrelated. But then you have all these
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: characters involved that allegedly have ties to Jack Ruby and
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Oswald and they all know each other, and you know,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: you got people. You know, it's just craziness. Else is
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: not that small of a town, you know. Yeah, but
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: that's what I got, Joe out hand it over to you.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: We'll get we'll dave into a little bit more of
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: a what mister mister Walker general Walker was doing over there.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I I I don't know what to think. I've
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: gone back and forth on it. After what you just
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: told me, I might lean towards it was not related but.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: More. And have a seat, buddy, I mean, well, you
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: talk to talk to daddy, Come on, tell me, tell
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: me what you're thinking.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but obviously we weren't there and we don't know
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: what happened, so we kind of lay it out and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: let our educated listeners kind of decide. So I don't
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: know what's crazy. I go back and forth. But thank
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: you for that. Sorry, And mister Roger, what's that Fellows? Sorry,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: I'm late, good Lee, Harold, you have a forever late pass.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, but you know the problem with being lady is
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: you never hear your own intro song being played. So
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: he could be part of the yes or catch it
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: in the replay.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, replay hashtag replay crew.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Probably sick of the song. I mean you did write
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: it and perform it, so you're probably sick of it,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: but we love it.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I am not sick that it's awesome. So yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: And and continuing with the General Walker theme. And I
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: didn't know any of those possible Warren Reynolds Walker General
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Walker connections, so thank you for that. Let's talk about
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: a guy named who is in the employ of General Walker,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: named William Mickewan Duff. And this is actually a picture
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: I took today from the book of Gail Nick Jackson's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Pieces of the Puzzle in Anthology, And this was his
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: mug shot when he was arrested after the alleged shooting
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: of General Walker, which happened in April tenth of nineteen
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: sixty three. And of course Oswalt was later accredited to
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: being that to taking the potshow at Walker, but to
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: mister Duff. He was also referred to as Mick Duff
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: or Scottie, was a figure associated with General Edward Walker
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: in Dallas during late nineteen sixty two to early nineteen
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: sixty three. Duff arrived at General Edward Walker's Dallas residence
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: in December nineteen sixty two, claiming to be a Scottish
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: immigrant and an admirer of Walker's ultra conservative anti communist stance.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: He offered to work part time for Walker's American Eagle
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Publishing Company AECP in exchange for room and board, stating
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: he needed to study to maintain his American citizenship papers.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Walker a prominent right wing figure who had resigned from
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: the US Army. That's a nice way of putting it.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty one, after controversy over distributing John Birch,
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Society literature accepted mister William Duff's offer.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: Well, come on in, son, I got a room for
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: you right here, right off my study. As we know,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: mister John, I'm going to call you Scottie because you're Scottish. Yeah,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: that's we killed.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: And we know that General Edward Walker would not have
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: been the first person to turn away a young boy,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: young man, young man.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: He was, yeah, young man, thanks clearly bold.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Yes. He initially lived in Walker's home, but soon became unreliable,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: failing to perform duties for the American Eagle Publishing Company
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: By January nineteen sixty three, Walker Secretary Julia Nett, who's
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: suspicious of Duff. After investigating his background, she found no
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: record of him at the British Consulate in Houston, and
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: he refused job offers from others. Additionally, Duff was engaged
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: This is Great Rob to a neighbor of General Walker's daughter,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: Miss Whitley, but the engagement ended when it was discovered
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: he had borrowed money from her mother and was driving
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: various cars, including a nineteen fifty seven Ford, which we'll
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: get into in the Second Rob, raising questions about his
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: claims of being a Scottish immigrant in the car sales trade.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: By March tenth sixty three, Walker's associate Robert Surrey, also
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: for extreme right Winger, searched Duff's belongings and found a
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: receipt for an airline ticket from San Francisco to Seattle
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: dated May nineteen sixty two, further casting doubt on duff story.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Surian Secretary net moved Duff's belongings to the hallway and
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: demanded he leave. Get the hell out of here, Yuskufuza.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Duff was last seen by Miss witt Lee on April sixth,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, just days before the assassination attempt on
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: General Walker, and the assassination attempt was April tenth.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: So he's got a really thick neck, Joe, he does.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: Huh pam good thing.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So after the April tenth, nineteen sixty three
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: assassination tempton Walker, where a bullet narrowly missed him at
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: his Dallas home, Duff became a subject. Walkers secretary who
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I just mentioned, Julianette and associate Robert Surrey reported their
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: suspicions to the Dallas Police, citing Duff's suspicious behavior and
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: his presence in Walker's home shortly before the incident. A
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: neighbor also claimed Duff had boasted to her daughter about
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: shooting at Walker, So the DPD investigated Duff and administrated
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: a polygraph examination on June twelfth, nineteen sixty three, at
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: the request of Lieutenant Cunningham. The test, conducted by Detective R. D.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Lewis of the Identification Bureau, aim to determine if Duff
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: had guilty knowledge of the shooting. The results, Oh, I'll
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: get there there in a second, Walker, I'm convinced of
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: of what they concluded. Hire two private investigators, former police officer,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: and a former Bureau of Narcotics agent to pursue Duff.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: This is when he kind of ran to Oklahoma. They
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: engaged him in a recorded conversation with during which Duff
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: jokingly suggested he would shoot at Walker for five thousand dollars.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: So they interviewed him. He goes, well, if you give
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: me five grand, aka like fifty grand, I'd do it.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Walker later dismissed this as a joke and stated he
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: would not believe Duff without an official verification. So let
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: me get to the rest of my PowerPoint. So gotskfusa Duff,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: who moves out exactly a month before the assassination attempt,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: And the reason he was considered a suspect was because
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: they kicked him out right. He had left on bad terms.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: He was allegedly a liar, a pathological liar. And this
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: is what the secretary in Surrey kind of came up with.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: On January twenty fourth, sixty four, William McEwan Duff at
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: Fort Sill, Oklahoma, at the time he joined the Army,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: interviewed as Scottie. Of course, Scotland was interviewed concerning has
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: reported association with Oswald them talking about the Walker shooting here,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: an allegation which he denied. On this occasion, he reported
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: employment during the period of November sixty two to about
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: April sixty three in the household of General Edward Walker
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: concerning Jack Ruby. Because you know, everyone asked everyone about
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Ruby and Oswald, every investigator. Duff stated that on January
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: twenty fourth, sixty four, that he had seen many photographs
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: of Ruby in the newspapers, that he was positive he
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: had never seen Ruby at any place and had no
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: information about him. He said he never had been in
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Ruby's nightclub in Dallas. On May twenty fifth, sixty four, however,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Duff laid claim to an association between Ruby and General
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Edward Walker, alleging he had seen Ruby at the Walker residence.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: This according to information supplied by James Cantrell, special Agent
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: United States Secret Service to Special Agent David Barry, I
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: think of the FBI. So this is the covered page
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: of the polygraph, and it happened in June twelfth of
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: sixty three, although this document is dated New Year's Eve
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: on nineteen sixty three, which is interesting. I'm not quite
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: sure to make about that polygraph examination was given to
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: William mcew and Duff upon the request of Lieutenant Cunningham
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: to determine if he had any guilty knowledge about the
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: shooting at General Edwin Walker's. This test was conducted at
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: eight pm on June twelve, sixty three. Below was a
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: list of pertinent questions. Do you have a grudge with
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: General Walker Duff's answer no. Did you shoot at General Walker?
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Do you remember who you were with the night General
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: Walker was shot at?
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Have you ever given information to anyone about the activity
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: of General Walker or the layout of the house except
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: the two men from Oklahoma?
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: Have you owned or had in your possession a high
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: power rifle since you have been in Dallas? Answer no?
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: Do you know who shot at General Walker? Answer no.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Cunningham set this appointment up and was investigating. Was
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: the investigating officer. This officer had left a set of
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: questions for Lieutenant pots to bring with mister Duff to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: be examined. H Lieutenant Potts, I guess the polygrapher was
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: not familiar with the case and advised there was a
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: definite language barrier between mister Duff and the examiner because
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: mister Duff was an immigrant. So dude has like a
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: heavy Scottish accent here, probably speaks a salty He probably
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: speaks Gaelic or something right, shout out Sally, we were
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: talking about Gaelic. Taking everything into consideration, it was the
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: opinion of this examiner that mister Duff was truthful on
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: all of the above questions except question number three. Let's
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: go back to number three. Number three was do you
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: remember where you were at the night General Walker was
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: shot at? Answered no. Due to a lasp of time
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: between the off offense and examination, this person seemed puzzled
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: over this question, which could have caused the indication of deception,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: as in like kind of didn't remember who he was
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: with on that night, so that might have led to
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: indication of deception. But due to this fact, this person
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: answered the other questions with the truth. It is believed
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: mister Duff was confused rather than lyne.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: So this is what the.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: DPD says after they do a polygraph of mister William Duff.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: So we jump ahead here to the Warrant Commission hearings.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: Mister Leebler is interviewing Jeneral. Yes, interviewing General Walker, and
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: did they discuss with you any possible suspects that they
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: might have had, come up with, any leads they had
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: on it as to who might have been involved, General Walker,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: I don't recall that they did. They may have, and
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: I may have told them who had been in and
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: around the house or who had worked for me. I
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: don't recall this definite, but the records will probably show.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: Do you have any records like that here, Walker, No,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: I don't. Did the name Lee Harvey Oswald come up
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: in connection with his investigation in any way at that time? No,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: it did not. Do you know William Duff? I know
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: who William Duff is under that name. Yes, it's an
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: interesting way of answering that question by Walker Leebler. In fact,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: he lived at your house for a while. I worked
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: for you as a batman, Yes, Rob, Yes, that is
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: what he calls himself, right, Walker.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: Says that's what he calls General Walker Jr.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: A batman is like orderly. He used to drive him
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: around and essentially be his bitch, is how I interpreted it.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like Larry Crayford was ja.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, that's a great Nolgay Leebler. When did you
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: make the acquaintance of mister Duff. He walked into the
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: house late one evening and said he was out on
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: a job and out of a place to sleep. I
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: put him up and put him to work. The date
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: I would have to get for you, I don't remember
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: was a prior to April tenth fifty three. Yes, it was.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: Was Doff living in your house at the time of
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: the attack on you. No, he was not about how
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: long had he been gone? Can you remember? Do you
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: have any Oh, I'm skipping a little. He Walker didn't know,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: Liebler finishes. Do you have any evidence to indicate that
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: he was involved in the shooting? He's saying, Walker, I
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: also know I wouldn't believe ninety percent of what Duff
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: said about anything. I have come to no conclusion, even
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: after the investigation, that he was even involved. Knowing Duff,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: I felt that if the investigators were a little bit naive,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: they got tricked more than Duff got tricked Leebler. But
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: these investigators weren't able to develop anything that led to
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: you to think that Duff had been involved in the
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: attack on you made on April tenth sixty three.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: And Walker asked, let me to believe what that Duff
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: had been involved in the attack on you. According to
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: his fantastic stories, it might lead to the belief that
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: he had been involved, Like my attorney says, but Duff
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: is so fantastic that I don't believe a word he says.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: So forwarding onto when mister William Duff kind of changed
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: his story in May of nineteen sixty four, and this
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: is the first time he talks about Ruby visiting General Walker.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: So it didn't come up at his previous interviews in
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: sixty three or polygraph in sixty three either. Just a
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: little concerning to me personally. James Cantrell, Special Agent Secret
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Service Oklahoma City, advised Special Agent David Barry that an
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: interview of William Duff on May twenty fifth, sixty four,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Duff had claimed evidence of an association between Jack Ruby
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: and General Edwarin Walker, Dallas, Texas. During that period December
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: sixty through two through March sixty three, Duff was employed
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: by General Walker, resided his home. Ruby visited on the
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: basis of about once a month, each time in the
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: company of two identified white males arriving in a Ford
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: car not further described. Duff claimed identification of Ruby through photographs,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: having heard him addressed only as Jack. The others he
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: described as follows. One white male mid thirties, five eleven
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: to six feet, weighing one forty five pounds, dark receding hair,
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: said to be a member of the John Birch Society.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: White male in late forties, heavy build, dark complexion. He's
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: not really consistent on his descriptions here. Ruby was not
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: mid thirties or one hundred and forty five pounds and
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: heading over to another FBI document, Oh, this is from
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: the interview of him in Oklahoma City, a lot of
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: the same. Mister Duff said he had applied for a
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: job on impulses. One day he had passed the residents
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: of General Walker in Dallas House, which he had identified
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: by the flags of the United States and Texas and
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: Confederate flying in front of the house, along with the
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: name of the General. He had said he had known
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: nothing of General Walker until he had gone to Dallas.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to skip this because not redundant. Mister Duff
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: said that his duties at the Walker Residents largely concerned
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: looking after the personnel needs of the General, including bro
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: It says cooking, but if you look at it, yeah,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: must have been a typo. I just noticed that and Chaffeern.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: Have someone needs of the general, including cocking and.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: He can't make it up. Man, you can't make it up.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: When photographs of Jack Ruby appeared in the newspaper.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: You're going to pay the rent tonight? Boy, Let me
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: tell you. Yeah, You're going to attend to the needs
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: of his bat.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, you don't earn your rent tonight. Mister Duff
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: described the man who he had considered this is like,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: so he was inter by FBI Secret Service a couple
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: different people, and he's kind of inconsistent in his descriptions.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: White male, forty to fifty years old, five eight, one
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five pounds, grayish, white hair, wearing a
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: business suit. Duff described as individual as being very thin
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: in appearance. It's concerning. There's no way Jack Ruby was
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: one twenty five at all. If so, then I'm one
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: twenty five. Mister Duff stated that he previously had not
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: informed of this possible association between Ruby and Walker based
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: on his personal identification, because on the occasion of his
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: interview in January sixty four, he had been interviewed at
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: the hospital at Fort Still and was more concerned about
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: his personal welfare and physical condition than the matter which
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: he reported. So he was kind of in h I
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to say mental hospital, but he he He
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: ended up getting divorced from his wife in sixty four,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: the one he was married to for like a few months,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: and getting kicked out of the military because he lied
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: about his previous association with Walk. So this guy, mister Duff,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: is a skaffoza. So how much we can we put
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: in his statements?
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: Rob doesn't sound like much. But he's in a take
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: place at the right time, like a bunch of these
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: other skaffooses to be. And he's got a reason to
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: shoot at the man, you know, right, I mean he
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: kicked him out of his house. Yeah, he was giving
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: a free place to stay, but who who knows? He
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: was propositioned every night and while he's there, you know,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: and then uh, you know, maybe wouldn't come off the
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: uh when come off to bussy and uh, General Walker
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: said right, that's it, you're out, and stuff got pissed
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: off and one day said I take this motherfucker out. Yeah.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean the Secretary and Surrey both that they
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: were the first. He was the first idea of the suspect, right,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: not Oswald, And that's why they ended up arresting him
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: and they give him a polygraph and then eventually clearing him.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: But that was their first thought, so it's not like
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: they didn't have reason to think that. But yeah, he
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: made him dress up in in fatigues, right.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: That it was fatigued.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: More likely?
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, talked to me with that Scottish accent. Boy.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Walker later said to the War Commission that
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: you know he was later convinced it wasn't him, because then,
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: of course he changes his suspective to Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: for the assassination.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: I call this move the bagpipe shuffle. Sun. You ain't
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: never seen nothing like this.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: Did it say where it wasn't Scotland? No, it didn't.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: That he's a glass Wigan lass Wigian butcher.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: But who knows?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: Cooked might be a comment of the night Scott Cooked
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: and chauffeur both mean writing.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: Is it true? So Suber was up? Jolene?
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's up? So I want to get into a
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: couple of people who also visited General Walker in nineteen
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: sixty three, And I know some people will be familiar
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: with these names. Rob I know we've talked about many
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: of them, all of them before. Right first is Philippe
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: Vidal Santiago. Yeah, and I'm not going to read from
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: someone would have talked by Larry Hancock. Vidal mentioned several
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: visits to General Walker during nineteen sixty three. Walker himself
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: had limited personal funds and had relied in this connection
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: to right wing organizations. In particular, HL Hunt was largely
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: responsible for funding Walker's governor campaign in Texas. There is
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: no documented account of Vidal meeting with Hunt or Hunt's representatives. However,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Hunt's behavior after the assassination suggests he may have had
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: been concerned about something about somehow being implicated, possibly by
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: previous remarks. By October nineteen sixty three, Vidal and Roy
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: Hargraves were working closely together. They lacked financing and were
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: supposedly working at developing Cuban missions out of Nicaragua or Guatemala.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: Vidal traveled to Dallas and state stated that he visited
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: General Walker seeking donations. Vidal spent almost two weeks in
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: Dallas from October thirty first to November eleventh. Upon his
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: return Vidal's return, he too reportedly stated that Walker had
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: no further interest in Cuban affairs. Videll was reportedly back
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: in Dallas as of November twenty one, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: still the day before the assassination, still trying to raise money,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: and still in violation of his travel restriction.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: And oh, by the way, Phelipe Heming, who sometimes is
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: looking in our comments section named after Felipe VI Dalloa Santiago, allegedly.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, and having it's going to come up in
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: a second, romp is going to come up. You know,
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: he's going to This is the only document that states
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: that Vidal was visiting General Walker, and I'm gonna read it.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: This is an FBI document January twentieth, nineteen sixty four,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: to the Director FBI Hoover from the Special Age in Charge, Miami.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: On November eleventh, nineteen sixty three, MMT one, an informant
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: advised that Vidal had just returned from Dallas, Texas, where
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: he visited with General Irwin E. Walker, US Army Retired Dallas.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Irwin.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's a type of I just I was just reading.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Vidal saw Walker for the purpose of obtaining money,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: donations and support of Vidal's anti Castro organization MMT one
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: advised it is doubtful Vidal was able to obtain any
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: money from General Walker. Vidal currently stated that he is
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: interested in moving from the United States to Guatemala and Nicaragua.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: Vidal says it is impossible for him to carry out
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: his anti castro activities in the United States. He complains
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: that the United States government hinders his efforts to overthrow
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: communism in Cuba. So Vidal's there for almost two weeks
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: and MMT one, which I don't know if it's ending
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: or not. It might be I maybe people figure that
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: out and I didn't catch it. And of course raw
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: this picture right, This is a picture found in Lee
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: Harvey Oswalt's belongings allegedly. Always have to add that in
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: there of General Walker's house with a car out in
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: front that is believed to be a nineteen fifty seven.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: Actually the rear of General Walker's house, not the front.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: The rear. Yes, yes, you're right, good point that the
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: front had the mailbox in the flags. Yes, this is
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: the rear.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: And Walker was shot through the rear of his house,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: not the front. So this photo is taken in the
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: alleyway behind Walker's house right close to where he would
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: have been shot from right. Yeah, thank you. It doesn't
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: do it for Oswald.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: No, it's it does not. Uh. And this is actually
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: And real quick, let me just you go back to
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: that photo.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: The license plate, Jerlinane says, I'm sure the CIA was
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: involved in cutting it out. But actually this picture was
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: published in Jesse Curry's book in nineteen sixty nine without
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: the license plate cut out. You still couldn't read it,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: but maybe on the original negative you could have. Possibly,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: so it was either it was cut out, either by
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: the Dallas police or probably the FBI. Because you know
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: this this this photo was turned over or at least
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: copy of it was turned over to the warring commissions.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: Jesse Curry had the original or access to the original,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: and the license plate was not cut out in his book.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: You are one hundred percent right because this photograph from
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: the appendance of the Warrant Commission was found amongst Oswald's possessions.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: It was taken outside the home of General Walker, presumably
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: by Oswalt. Note the obliterated license plate to the automobile,
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: a white fifty seven Chevrolet, the same make, color, and
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: model that Colonel William Bishop told Gary Shaw was driven
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: to take Felipe Vidallas Santiago from Florida to Dallas. But
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: as you just mentioned, Rob, when the police Dallas Police
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: were questioned by the Warren Commission about the photograph A
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: Knight of the nineteen fifty seven Chivrolet, they said that
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: there was a hole when it was found in Oswalt's possessions,
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: a hole where the license plate was right. Later, however,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: when retired police Chief Jesse Curry wrote his book jfk
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: Assassination File, he included a photograph shawing Walker's house and
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty seven Chevrolet with the automobiles a license
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: plate still intact. Marina Oswalt had also earlier testified to
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: the Warrant Commission that once you saw the photograph, there
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: was no hole obscuring the license plate. So interesting, I
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: think you're right.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: I mean somebody at the uh, somebody at the Dallas
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: Police Department cut this out, I think so.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: Or the FBI, like you mentioned, or he courageous had
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: access to the original. So let me see what else
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: I have uh From you know, into sixty four. Vidal,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: although had apparently been unsuccessful, in raising money. Vidal entered
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: Cuba in April sixty four on a penetration mission to Cuba,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: where he was captured and eventually executed.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: Wof so.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: Not good for Vidal, But Vidal had met him a
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: couple times in nineteen sixty three, at least two that
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: we know of.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: And he wasn't supposed to be leaving Florida either at
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: the time, right, Right.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: But he had Yeah, he had the state stay in
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: county or restricted county. That's not the exact working.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: But he wasn't the only zero focus.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. And and like he said,
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: he's considering saying, like, screw the US, I'm gonna go
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: to Nicaraco or Guatemala and launched my attacks from there. Right,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: But he wasn't the only, uh, because we know rob
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: like the Cuban exiles and the soldiers of Fortune like
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: Lauren Hall when they get into next UH and the
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: extreme right wing, they all worked together, right, They all
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: had mutual interest, right, And we talked a lot about
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: the grift right general Walker did not have money. He
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: did not and everyone knew that he didn't and he
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: was kind of losing interest in the Cuban campaign, if
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: you will, right, but I think maybe Vidaha was trying
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: to use his connections to Ja Haunt to get funding
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: for that. And at the same time, I'm sure a
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: lot of the Cuban exiles didn't care about a lot
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: of the maybe far right racism things they were on.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: You know, what's the word, you know, the civil rights
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: drama that was going on, Like they all had their
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: own interests at different ranks.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, yeah, I think the you know what what
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: he was pulling in Germany, you know, with the propaganda
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: and what happened in uh it was in Mississippi, yeah, yeah,
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: and all that craziness going on. He was not getting
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: a pension despite being a general okay in the army.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: He was reduced, you know, from being a war hero
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: you know, in general to to nothing his fun you know,
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: no more paycheck, no pension, You're done, ski bro. So
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: what he had to do was figure out a grift exactly,
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: and he would he would go to the he would
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: do speeches for the John Birch Society. Basically anybody would
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: pay him. He would also go on these midnight rides
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: with Billy James Hargas, which he would they would go
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: across the country and and and do these extreme right
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: winging speeches and and collect money that way.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Midnight Writer or whatever they called it.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: So and the older he got, the more kookie he got,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: let's say, in his beliefs. And there's many instances of that.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: And I was so disappointed, Joe, because Paul Trejo, who
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: is I think the guy responsible for originally pointing out
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: the discrepancies of the John T. Martin film with Walker's
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: house in it and Oswald being on the same role
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: of film. It's a big, big, big believer that General
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: Walker was involved in the assassination. And he had he
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: had a website. It was like CIA did not kill
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: JFK dot com or something that That's exactly what it was.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: And it is gone. I went there yesterday to try
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: to look for something, and I was like, where did
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: this go? And then you know it popped up. You know,
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: this domain is now available, you know whatever. Whatever. I
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: was like, damn man, that was.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: Had some good resources there.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: It had a lot of good resources, a lot of
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: General Walker's writings, a lot of his letters. Because wherever
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: General Walker, like after he died, left all his papers,
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: it's somewhere you know, one of these universities in Texas
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked at it earlier.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, Treo went and got copies of all
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: that ship and it was a very good resource. And
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: now it's it's sadly gone. Hopefully Paul Treo is still alive.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't seen him on Facebook in
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: a while. I know he used to post over the
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: dead for him, but I don't know if he has recently.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: But I don't know.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I did not know that. No, That's that's
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: why you got to save everything, guys. You never know
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: when she's going to disappear from websites, you know.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of pictures there that aren't available
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: anywhere else. And so yeah, sadly that's gone.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll move on to mister Hall really quickly. Mister
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: Lauren Hall, and this is actually a part of his
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: HCA immunize testimony. I think this is his second one
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: because he had two of them in June of seventy seven,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: and they asked him about his meetings of Walker. He
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: made contact with his car salesman who eventually took us
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: to General Walker's house. This is Lauren Hall, mister Triplett
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: who was interviewing him. Now, just for the record, whatever
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: you refer to Patrick, you're referring to General Patrick Hemming,
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: are you not, mister Hall, Yes, I am, triplet Were
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: you present at the time when mister Hemming on this
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: January trip to Dallas talk to Lester Logue? Yes, I was.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: And what was the nature of that discussion? Well, Heming
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: was trying to form a special army unit or a
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: special American Army unit. And I don't even remember the
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: name of it now. Was that called inter penn Oh, yes,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: that's what it was. Was the conversation similar when you
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: visited General Walker? Yes, it was, Lauren Hall says, except
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: that we dabbed off into General Walker's problems. Were all
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: these people that you mentioned when you visited on that
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: January nineteen sixty three trip, Robert Morris, Lester Logue, Boats Welch,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: General Walker, the newspaper reporter, the Ford salesman, and anyone
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: else you may not have mentioned. Was there anything from
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: the conversation or the information or the contexts with these
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: various people which indicated to you that any or all
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: of them might be involved in the intelligence community. By that,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: I mean Fbiica. Mister Hall says, I'll have to say, no,
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: he's a cool character. There were you in Dallas at
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: any time during September sixty three? He has Hall, as
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: I recall it was in late September sixty three, did
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: you have on occasion to that trip to visit a
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: General Walker? Not on that trip. So here Lauren Hall
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: is visiting with Hemming general Walker in January, but does
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: not say, and he's visiting with all these other right
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: wing people in September as well, but he does not
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: say he visited with Walker then. And also Hemming and
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: Hall also allegedly visited Walker in June of sixty three
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: as well, although I didn't have time to find that document.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: So you can see the kind of people that are
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: visiting Walker. I feel like if you were like an
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: extreme right winger and you were in Dallas, it was
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: almost like customary to stop by Walker's house, right. And
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: one last thing I had rob is Jean Soous Tree,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: which is of course again who we have heard of
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: before being in Dallas in nineteen sixty three, and his
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: connection is he also met with Walker in the summer
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: of sixty three. Let me bring this up, Jean Rene
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: Marit schous Tree was a French military officer, a captain
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: in the French Air Corps Commandos, a member of the
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: Organizationion Armie sec Te oh Ye, a right wing extremist
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: group opposed to French President Charles da calls policy of
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: granting independence to Algeria. Soutre was a deserter from the
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: French Army, convicted in June sixty two and lived in
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: exile and Spain by sixty three. His association with the OAS,
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: which engaged in terrorism and assassination attempts against the Gaul,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: made him a figure of interest in intelligence circles. And
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: the thing about this guy is, and we've heard about
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: this a lot, right, this French Corsican assassin that was
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: in Dallas in nineteen sixty three and in November twenty second, Right,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: this is his pictures.
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: Is this the same guy that got caught leaving Dallas
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: and going to Mexico?
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 7: Yes, exactly, yes, But is it the same guy because
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 7: he was using aliases and I think the documentary record
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 7: might have gotten mixed up a little bit, but he
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 7: met with.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly so, according to Bloody Treason, souter met with
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: Cias E Howard Hunt and Madrid, and also with General
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: Edward Walker and Dallas. In the spring of sixty three,
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: also met in New Orleans with anti Castro Cubans in
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: the assassination training camp. During the same period, operation was
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: headquartered in Guy Banister's office in New Orleans, which was
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: frequented by Oswalt. Same timespan that the meetings between Vidal
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: Hargrave's bishop and the Texas right wing leaders occurred.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: Is that supported by anything or to say that no,
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: So, there is this document and it was in March.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: I believe it was in March or April. This was
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: released in nineteen sixty four, and it says John Soutre
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: aka and this is this is a memo from like
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: French intelligence asking what's up with this guy?
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: Is he here?
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: So John Soutre aka Michael Rocks rocks Roux, I'm but
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: Serre that aka Michael Mertz. So you have three names here.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: On March fifth, mister Poppek advised that the French had
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: hit the legal attache in Paris and also the man
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: had corried the Bureau in New York City concerning subject,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: stating that he had been expelled from the United States
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: at Fort Worth or Dallas forty eight hours after the assassination.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: He was in Fort Worth on the morning of the
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: twenty second, and in Dallas in the afternoon. The French
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: believed that he was expelled to either Mexico or Canada.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: In January, he received mail from a dentist named Alderson
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: living in Houston, Texas. Objectives believed to be identical with
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: a captain who was a deserter from the French army
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: and an activist in the Oas. The French are concerned
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: because of Degale's planned visit to Mexico, which I guess
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: was happening a couple months later. They would like to
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: know the reason for his expulsion from the US and
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: his destination. Bureau files are negative and they are checking
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: in Texas with thes So this document was sent a
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: couple months after the assassination, or at least that's when
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 1: it goes into the record. It was in March. So
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: the FBI, of course, we've talked about the documentary flow, right.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: You get a request, then the documents start to flow
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: and you can follow it. This is March thirteen, sixty
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: four FBI from the Director of the FBI to special
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Agent in charge of New York CC, Dallas, Houston, San
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: Antonio Rebutel, which I think is just like Airtel, but
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: the one you get back, I think rebuttal, rebuttal. There
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: you go. It's spell weird, which contained information received from
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: a WFO which is a code for one of those
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: cities that of Michael Rocks entered US November nineteen sixty
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: three and departed November or December sixth sixty three at Glarado,
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: Texas for Mexico Paris. Advised on three thirteen sixty four.
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: Michael Rocks referred to above has been located by French
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: in Paris and it has been determined that he is
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: not identical with Jean Sooutre discontinue investigation. So FBI is
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: kind of saying nothing to see here.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: But again, these guys are interchanging. They know each other,
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: Michael Mertz and Jean Renee's sutra, right, They know each other,
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: and they it's kind of like fucking with the other
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: guy because they're both badass assassins, so they would use
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: each other's identities just to fuck with each other, right,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: which is.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: Why it says Juan aka Michael Rock's aka Michael Mertz, right,
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: They're all like interchanging things, and that's what makes us
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: really hard to follow. And to be honest, Rob, I'm
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: not even sure I know what's going on here, but
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: I did ask Rock. Michael Mertz nineteen twenty ninety five
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: was a French resistance fighter and later a drug trafficker
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: linked to the French connection Heroin trade. Investigative journalist and
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: others suggests Mertz was the individual in Dallas using Sioutre's identity.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: Mertz reportedly worked for the SDECE to infiltrate the OAS
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: and may have been in Dallas to monitor or frame Sutre,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: possibly as leverage against the French journalists. William Reagan argued Rocks,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: a separate individual, a former French Army soldier, was confirmed
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: to have been in Fort Worth on November twenty second,
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: sixty three, visiting friends the Gotchman family. He entered the
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: US on November nineteenth and left for Mexico in December
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: sixth via Laredo, Texas, without being deported. The FBI investigative
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: Rocks and confirmed he was not Soutrey, ruling him out
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: as the expelled individual. US authorities found no record of
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: Sutre or Mertz in Dallas or Fort Worth. But luckily
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: friend of the show, Carmen Savastano gave a really good
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: description of this whole event and attached with documents. But
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: on the evening of November twenty first, the Michael Michelle
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: Rocks guy is picked up by Gotchman to spend the
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: entire evening with his family, and this would confirm Rocks
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: is a former companion and not someone in person impersonating him.
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: Michelle tells the Gospins he seeks a hotel job, blah
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: blah blah. The next morning, Goshmin's son, Arnold picks up
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: Rocks and they attended Arnold's college lectures until noon, and
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: they were at a cafe for lunch when they heard
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: of the attack on the President Kennedy and subsequently returned
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: to the Goshmin home, listened to the radio, and watched television. Well,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: travel records do show a few people with the last
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: names of Rocks and Mertz traveled days following the assassination,
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: they do not match. These men often associated with the
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: various claims, despite speculations regarding a friends connection, the only
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: person substantial or the only person substantial evidence verifies was
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: near Dallas is Michael Rocks. Yet Rocks was never in Dallas,
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: and without additional verifiable evidence, there's no reason to support
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: yet alibi that Mertz or Suite were either. So this
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: document with the French asking where this guy was might
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: have been completely misconstrued. And because these people we were
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: using each other as aliases, they were all connected to
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: the title of the document, right. But the only person
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: out of these three that was in Dallas was Michelle Rocks,
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: and he was in Fort Worth, and he was with
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: a family and had alibis. So whether you believe that
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: or not, I don't know. But that whole French Corsican
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: connection I think is somewhat bullshit. Although sou Terre was
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: meeting with General Walker earlier in the year, which is
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: why I wanted to kind of mention him.
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do be a sid best Joseph. Yes, So let's see.
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: I had one pin comment from long ago from slacker Dan.
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: Didn't de mornshield Good naturally accuse Oswald of the Walker
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: shooting or was it just a rumor or a fake story? No,
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: he did, as a matter of fact, when him and
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: his wife went to the Oswald's apartment after the Walker shooting,
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: he kind of jokingly said how could you miss him
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: from such a short distance, and Oswald was kind of like, uh,
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: he didn't really say anything back, at least according to
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 2: the moornshield And that was the same night that Marino
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: showed Jeanne, his wife, the rifle in the closet.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, and Marina complained that look at
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: this idiot, he's spending money on rifles and not supporting
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: his family.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: Of course, the de Morn Shields came across a backyard
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: photograph that they suddenly found in their possession that had
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: written in Russian on the back of it and surreally
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: a hunter of fascists ha ha ha. But Marina says
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: that she doesn't remember writing that on the back of
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: the photograph. Nobody knows that Oswald did that. The Warrenshields
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 2: didn't write it on the back. And the weird thing
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: is that this picture was found, uh three or four
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: years after the assassination.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: A storage or something.
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: Well, they went to Haiti, remember, and they were in
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 2: Haiti for a couple of years, and they put all
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: their ship in storage that they didn't take with them,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: and then when they came back they they found it
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: in in in a book or something or some some
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: someplace weird where you wouldn't expect to find a picture.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: Oh it was in the vinyl. It was in their
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: vinyl albums, like in between some of their records. Yea.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: And none of them remember how it got there. So
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: was this thing just placed there randomly or who knows?
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: But it was a very weird thing. But yes, I
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: believe du Morren shield didn't mention it, you know, he's
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: kind of joking, like, you know, how could you miss
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: from such a short distance. And of course at the
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: Magnolia party that we were talking about where the Oswald's meant,
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: the Pains and de mor and Shields were there and
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: all that, you know, apparently was talking to this guy
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 2: there that night who was you know, talking all kinds
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: of mad shit about General Walker. And then he was
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: a fascist and somebody needs to take him out like Hitler.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, he's going to be another Hitler
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 2: and he should be killed and taken out before he
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: can do anything bad. And and in that Connie Chritsburgh book,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: Joe I was reading in one of the chapters that
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: she actually attended a John Birch Society meeting at the
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: behest of one of her friends that general Walker was speaking,
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: that spoke at and allegedly Oswald was at the same
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: meeting sitting in the back.
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: Was that the one he went with Michael Payne before
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: the Adlie Stevenson tobaccle.
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 2: It may have been, of course at that time, she
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: had no idea who Oswald was, of course, but yeah,
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: it's crazy small world.
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I might even say that, you know, we
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: know Demorshield and Oswald talked politics and all this stuff,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: you know a lot, and de Marshield might have egged
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: Oswalt on into saying, I think you said this in
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: one of his interviews. You know, all you do is talk,
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: you know, you don't actually do anything. And I don't
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: know if Oswalt took a pop shot at Walker, but
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: it's a much bigger chance in my in my book,
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: than he shot at Walker than he shot at Kennedy.
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, the what do they call it,
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 2: the circumstantial evidence is there, you know, with Marina says
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: that he did. There's that letter you know that says,
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: you know, if I get caught, here's what you do.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: Type of thing that was found nine months after the fact,
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: you know, in one of her cookbooks or something.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just the whole thing's just weird, you know,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: like can you trust how much Marina has to say?
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: You know, like she was saying, well, you know, Oswald
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: was cleaned his rifle, you know all the time. Yet
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: you know what, you know what they didn't find, Joe
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: and all all of Oswall's belongings. What a rifle cleaning
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: kit or a gun cleaning kit unless he was just
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: using who knows what, you know.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course then you have the witness testimonies
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 1: of them seeing two people running away from the Walker scene.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: So if Oswald was involved with who was he with?
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: You know, people thought it might have been you know,
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: William Duff. We talked about.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: People were seeing getting in a car and leaving the scene.
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: It's a mess, I really like have no I go
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: back and forth on that, I really do. I don't know, Yeah,
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: just some of those things, it's just like you throw
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: up your hands like, I don't know, man, mm hmmm,
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: as with many aspects.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: Of this case, exactly. Well, thank you, Joe, Yes, I
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: believe that, do us. For this evening, we've ran a
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 2: little late this evening. We apologize, but a lot of
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: information to disseminate in general Walker style to everyone here tonight.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: Oh we thank you so much for hanging out with
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 2: us and killing it in the chat. Grab the damn dog,
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: Joe and I'll grab Dino damn dog. Come here, dance
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: fat man all you're back Wednesday night, remembers only remember
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: last month.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: Now there's five months. There's five Wednesdays this month.
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, remember.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: Truth Committee. In the name of justice like to be
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: used for him against Stranger.
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 5: List yesternight the List, grab yourself from Maple Europe. We'll
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 5: see you on Wednesday. Thanks other now for members the
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 5: first to night. We appreciate it as always.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: Have a wonderful rest of your Friday evening and week
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: end and we'll see you next Wednesday, folks.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks guys.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: Pooh poosh
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 1: H