Latest / Steve Azar's Resonance: A Podcast for Leaders, Unpacking the Power of Song, Silence and Strategy / Resonance Episode: AI and Human Dignity

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Resonance Episode: AI and Human Dignity · Steve Azar's Resonance: A Podcast for Leaders, Unpacking the Power of Song, Silence and Strategy

• 0:00
  This is Resident, the podcast with leaders that unpacked the power of songs, talents, and strategies.
• 0:13
  We believe the great leadership begins with deep listening, not just to others, but to the still small voice within.
• 0:21
  It's not just about being a successful leader, it's about being soulfully aligned as well.
• 0:27
  In a world moving fast, resonance invites you to pause and reconnect with purpose, people, and possibilities.
• 0:33
  We'll dive into some cool stories, celebrate with friends, and dig deep into the music too.
• 0:44
  So whether you're leading a business, a team, or just trying to lead your own life with more meaning, this is Resonance.
• 0:50
  Resonance, Resonance.
• 0:55
  Welcome back to Resonance.
• 0:57
  I'm Mike Farrell, joined again by my comrades Steve Azar from Mississippi, now sitting in Arkansas.
• 1:05
  We're not quite sure where, but uh, he's he's somewhere there.
• 1:08
  And of course, Randy Harrington up in the great northwest of Oregon.
• 1:12
  And uh Randy's bright and early this morning.
• 1:15
  He's got his coffee, he's ready to roll.
• 1:17
  So today we're gonna have a really interesting show because we're gonna talk about Steve's favorite topic today, which is AI.
• 1:24
  And uh, you can't read or see anything today without listening or hearing about AI and what's going on with it, all the money, the trillions of dollars that are being pumped into it, all of those kinds of things.
• 1:39
  But it was interesting earlier this week.
• 1:41
  Pope Leo XIV came out with his first papal encyclical called Magnifica Humanitas.
• 1:48
  Uh, we're gonna throw a little Latin at everybody today.
• 1:50
  I needed that this time.
• 1:54
  And magnificent humanity is what he talks about, and it is the role of human dignity and AI.
• 2:01
  And I'm just gonna start with a quote from that uh from that document.
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  Humanity, created by God in all its grandeur, is today facing a pivotal choice: either could to construct a new tower of Babel or to build the city in which God and humanity dwell dwell together.
• 2:17
  That was kind of the opening statement of his document.
• 2:21
  So I know, Randy, you've done a lot of of work in this whole idea of AI.
• 2:26
  I've obviously done a lot of work in the area of human dignity, and Steve is just pissed off about AI.
• 2:32
  So, you know, we're I'm uh I'm pissed off about certain elements of it.
• 2:38
  Exactly.
• 2:38
  That that that uh that we saw, we saw, I'm interrupting, but I gotta say this.
• 2:44
  You've worked me up.
• 2:45
  We saw what happened musically when Napster came along, uh, affected me and a lot of my friends uh in a huge way financially.
• 2:52
  So you work your whole life towards something, and all of a sudden everybody's getting something for free, which led to streaming.
• 2:57
  The industry wasn't prepared, the government wasn't prepared to protect the industry, the the the rights that the industry and the creator had, right?
• 3:05
  And so there's a lot of people's lives are at stake, not just the person that's writing it, it's and the person that's recording it, and all those people that go on tour, all those truck drivers and bus drivers and and union workers and for and and and your crew and your band and their families, you start looking at, and that's just one one person that's a responsible.
• 3:26
  You know, I felt very responsible for a lot of people.
• 3:29
  And when when sales didn't match the folks showing up at concerts, so so many people are coming, and the record label was not even listening.
• 3:38
  And you're talking about one of the biggest record labels in the world was not listening because they didn't think it would matter.
• 3:43
  That's how so you're dealing with obviously that's people listening are gonna go, well, that's y'all's fault.
• 3:48
  You're right, it is our fault.
• 3:50
  We were really, you know, it was ridiculous, d ridiculously dumb that we allowed things to happen without trying to fight for it.
• 3:57
  But here's what worries me about AI.
• 3:59
  They're gonna allow the wild frontier just to do its thing, and then they're gonna go, oh, we'll go back and fix that.
• 4:05
  Well, sometimes in certain avenues of life and business and careers, it's too late to fix that.
• 4:11
  And so then you're just left with, okay, how can we salvage that?
• 4:15
  And I'm worried about that part of it.
• 4:17
  What's gonna be salvaged in our business when folks I got so many friends, I got doctor friends sending me their songs they're writing and recording, and they're making an album, and da-da-da-da-da.
• 4:28
  And I love them with all my heart, but you know, I can't use the AI to go set up a clinic and start working on patients, although I may try.
• 4:36
  I told them I'm gonna try.
• 4:37
  Yeah, what's the difference?
• 4:38
  What's the difference here?
• 4:39
  You know, it's interesting too.
• 4:40
  I just saw in the news this morning the Tribeca Film Festival is featuring a film that was completely AI generated.
• 4:49
  No actors, no sets, no nothing.
• 4:51
  It was strictly done by AI.
• 4:53
  And uh, and it's uh it sounds like it's kind of an interesting story.
• 4:56
  It's yeah, those are all over YouTube.
• 4:58
  I mean, you can escape from Iran, you know.
• 5:01
  But it but I think we see that.
• 5:02
  But Steve, I think you make a great point is that thank you when you go back to try and fix it, and that's and that's really what Pope Leo spoke about in this document, is that we have to understand that human dignity has to come first because once you create these AI systems, it's virtually impossible to go backwards and correctly how it impacts human dignity.
• 5:25
  And I know, I know there's a lot of discussion and news today about this whole idea of AI and the fact that it's taking jobs away and those kinds of things.
• 5:34
  And Randy, I know you've done a lot of of research and work in that area.
• 5:38
  Why don't you chime in and talk about what you see?
• 5:41
  Well, uh boy, it's a it's talk about a big old deep well there.
• 5:45
  There's a lot, there is a lot, a lot going on.
• 5:47
  And there's a lot of different ways we can approach it.
• 5:49
  One of the interesting things as we're having this conversation is that everyone who's listening to this conversation has their own very legitimate point of view and experience as it relates to AI.
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  Some people know of it as just something that's kind of over there and they've heard wisps about it.
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  Other people see it as the most important thing in the universe.
• 6:09
  Everybody's somewhere in between, right?
• 6:11
  Trying to sort it all out.
• 6:13
  So we begin with this idea that we all have these predisposed ideas ourselves about AI.
• 6:20
  One of the biggest things that I think is from a leadership perspective that the early research is showing is that the successful leader is going to look at AI as a source of, or maybe even cause of, organizational transformation.
• 6:36
  And they need you need to think about it as a transformative variable in your organization.
• 6:41
  And then so the key word is transformative at a comprehensive level.
• 6:45
  The people that are screwing up with AI are saying, hey, get our tech guy in here.
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  Hey, Farrell, you're our tech guy.
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  Would you go sort out this AI stuff for us?
• 6:54
  You know, figure out where you can plug it in and, you know, whatever.
• 6:57
  And just, you know, I get I'm my board's saying I need to be AI ready.
• 7:01
  So I'm gonna be able to go and say, yeah, Ferrell's got that going for, right?
• 7:05
  Right.
• 7:05
  That's the mistake.
• 7:06
  If it's if somehow it becomes a technology piece or a one-time investment or anything like that, no, no, no.
• 7:13
  This is about a lifestyle change for your organization.
• 7:16
  It's gonna permeate the organization and it is going to fundamentally transform the way you do your business, whether you like it or not.
• 7:24
  And this is where people get, this is the Azar response.
• 7:27
  It doesn't matter if if I'm in the healthcare business, I have no option but to begin deploying AI agents if I'm going to be in any way competitive.
• 7:36
  And so this is one of those kind of, this is the bitter pill that we all have to swallow, or it's the pill that we swallow and go, okay, this is, I'm gonna figure this stuff out.
• 7:44
  I'm going to come at this from a point of view that actually works.
• 7:47
  So if we follow the research one more step down, we say, okay, well, what does work, SmartyPants?
• 7:53
  Well, what seems to work is this idea of bringing a problem-first discipline.
• 7:58
  And what that means is solve a problem with it.
• 8:00
  Don't just say, hey, let's do some AI.
• 8:03
  Let's say we have got to reduce the amount of time it's taking for people to be able to get credit with us.
• 8:10
  Everybody else can do this in five seconds.
• 8:12
  Why is it taking us a day?
• 8:14
  Right?
• 8:15
  That's the kind of thing.
• 8:16
  Let's solve that problem.
• 8:18
  I get that.
• 8:18
  If you that approach and you start by solving specific problems, you are bringing people into it.
• 8:26
  They're owning it.
• 8:27
  You cannot solve that problem without people putting the inputs in and figuring it out.
• 8:31
  And so you kill two birds with that.
• 8:34
  You're bringing AI in, but you're also engaging your people in a way that allows them to see, oh my God, you know what?
• 8:40
  Now we have this system.
• 8:42
  Not only can people find out their credit worthiness in five seconds, but now that just saved me I'll hear numbers like this 60 hours a month.
• 8:50
  You know, this new thing is just changed my job to the tune of I now have 60 hours free where I can be deployed to do something else.
• 8:58
  Okay.
• 8:59
  That is a very important point where I get.
• 9:02
  So I'm gonna, first of all, you're probably saying, Steve, wake up, get in with it.
• 9:05
  I am with it.
• 9:06
  And you but and and I and I do have my cake and eat it too.
• 9:09
  So I'm gonna explain to you why.
• 9:11
  But let me give you an example.
• 9:12
  I get that because uh I am really busy right now.
• 9:16
  And when I I haven't co-written a song, I've been writing all by myself since I moved back to Mississippi and I like to write by myself.
• 9:22
  And uh and so but you do the co-writing thing a lot in Nashville when you're there.
• 9:26
  It's just it's just a community, and it's a beautiful thing.
• 9:29
  Uh having something to share.
• 9:30
  So I had this one song that I recently wrote that I share with you guys that had been sitting on my mind a while, and I felt like this girl that I'd gotten to know, really great songwriter, successful artist, successful songwriter, I felt like she'd be the one to sort of help me take it where it needs to go.
• 9:43
  And she was.
• 9:44
  And so right after we were done, she played and sang it.
• 9:47
  We did it via Zoom.
• 9:48
  She's in Nashville, I'm in down in the Delta, and she goes, Hey, I'm gonna run this thing through this AI program.
• 9:53
  And I I it was like to me, it was like, like, what language you just what you are you you just got gibberish.
• 9:58
  I don't know what you're saying.
• 9:59
  And she we talked about instruments, she wanted to be it wants to be piano driven because I started it and wrote it on piano in the beginning, and she pulls this demo out.
• 10:06
  No, no, no.
• 10:07
  So she sends it to me.
• 10:08
  She had choices, it gives you three choices, right?
• 10:10
  And I was going like, My God, that's eighty-five percent of what I would have done.
• 10:14
  So I'm going like, okay, so I understand, I understand that what that's gonna do is that's gonna save me time without calling a b a session a band in session and going in and spending a day working on a demo, and then going in to get it mixed, and it's gonna save me a ton of money, right?
• 10:30
  But, but, but, but, but it's gonna eliminate that creative side that you were gonna be able to there's there's something so wonderful about writing something and then going in and taking it to the next place and sharing it with other musicians and all that.
• 10:44
  I get the fact that it saves me a lot of time and it also lets you know what you have.
• 10:48
  Is this worthy?
• 10:49
  Like, is it worth even going to spend the money on?
• 10:51
  It's a good tool for that.
• 10:53
  But when you start having an all-AI generated song to become number one, which you did before Christmas, that's where I'll draw the line.
• 10:59
  And I know you're going, okay, Steve, there's plenty of room for everything.
• 11:02
  But there can only be one there can only be one song number one in that genre that week, and it took the place of something that came from a heart and soul, and had a lot of work and a lot of people involved and a lot of lives at stake that was number two.
• 11:15
  There's a big difference between a number one record and a number two record.
• 11:18
  That's all I'm saying.
• 11:19
  It's winning the Super Bowl or not winning the Super Bowl.
• 11:22
  Okay, so I I I that stresses me about where we're heading and uh and but I get the part where it saves you time.
• 11:29
  I understand and I and I like parts of AI.
• 11:31
  I'm I listen, I do like a lot of parts of AI.
• 11:34
  I'm starting to use it to help save me time in other avenues that I would have done personally, but it doesn't affect anybody else is world or work.
• 11:42
  Right.
• 11:42
  I mean, when you look at places like radiologists, for example, and the fact that they have AI now that can look at scans and x-rays with far more precision than the human eye, far more comprehensively, they can move much, much more quickly.
• 11:57
  And so now all of a sudden a physician can have scans done in seconds and the AI can say, This is, you know, check this out.
• 12:06
  And could it make the physician get sloppy?
• 12:08
  Sure.
• 12:09
  It's an issue.
• 12:09
  I mean, it could.
• 12:10
  They're like, well, I'm just gonna trust the AI and this gonna, but what's happening is that's not what's happening.
• 12:14
  What's happening is it's really allowing the physician to to look at the the oh, okay, here's where the problem is, and now you can take it a little step further.
• 12:22
  So it's it's it's speed.
• 12:24
  I get it.
• 12:24
  I'm in.
• 12:25
  Yeah, yeah, I understand your point.
• 12:27
  So there's there are these distinctions, and I think this is what the Pope was getting to.
• 12:30
  And I'm gonna come back over to you for in just a second to really pull pull more out of that encyclical.
• 12:35
  And I want to tee you up with this too.
• 12:37
  I want you to define what an encyclical is for me, because I I think I've got one stuck in my tooth in the back there.
• 12:43
  Well, that's that's what I would have said and believed, not you.
• 12:48
  Don't act like you're don't act like you're Gilligan right now.
• 12:51
  Don't you do it?
• 12:52
  Well, you know, I I defer to my Catholic uh uh brother here to to really bring bring the bring the papacy.
• 13:00
  Well, you know, I think it it it's you know, first answer your question a papal encyclical is typically a document that a pope creates, obviously, with a lot of help.
• 13:10
  Pope Leo didn't just come up with this, you know, last weekend and you know, sit down at the typewriter or you know, have it AI generated.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:20
  But it it is typically a statement that that either strengthens or clarifies church doctrine.
• 13:28
  Okay.
• 13:28
  Something along those lines.
• 13:30
  And that's probably not that's probably a a very rudimentary, you know.
• 13:34
  I'm I've got a lot of theologian friends that I'm sure would would tell me, Farrell, that's not even close, but uh that's that's my interpretation of it, is it really is a a document, and you don't see them very often, you know.
• 13:46
  Uh right.
• 13:46
  I think Pope Red.
• 13:47
  So this is a big deal.
• 13:48
  Yeah, I think Pope R only did a handful of them in in his time, as as well as as Benedict and and uh Pope John Paul II.
• 13:57
  So you know, these these are a big deal.
• 13:59
  And the fact that this was his very first one, I think, and and done.
• 14:03
  What was interesting is that it was done on the 350th anniversary of Pope Leo the Thirteenth in his encyclical that really talked, and and that encyclical really dealt with the whole idea of uh the common good, and it really that goes back to the the industrial revolution age where we had child labor and we had a lot of other social issues, and and that document really defined what we call Catholic social teaching.
• 14:31
  And so for for Pope Leo to take that aspect and and now apply that to what's going on from a technological standpoint in our world today with AI is a very telling aspect because he really has this on his heart and on his mind that says we really have to be careful with this whole AI thing.
• 14:50
  Um, you know, one of the one of the comments that he makes is uh in there is really talking about we have to not allow AI to be our primary communication.
• 15:00
  Because when we do that, and I and I think it goes exactly to Steve's story about writing that music, you know, you got it to 85, but you still had to take it to a human connection to finish it.
• 15:13
  And the difference being if you did it all with AI, you'd just fire your band and say, Well, I don't care about them.
• 15:19
  I'm just gonna crank the sucker out on AI and I'm done.
• 15:22
  And I think this idea of human dignity says that we have to understand that in order for humanity to exist, there has to be that idea that we have that human connection that technology can't do.
• 15:35
  It's the reason Well, that'll be that'll be that will always be up close and personal, live.
• 15:40
  Anything you do together or in front of a crowd, or those those things I believe are gonna be even more important than ever.
• 15:48
  What you brought up something though.
• 15:49
  So if I decide, you know what, that demo's good enough.
• 15:53
  If peep it it's it's moving, I believe it.
• 15:55
  It was in the moment, I'm gonna use that to pitch to artists, and so I've eliminated my band for making anything or being a part of something wonderful, I hope, you know, potentially wonderful.
• 16:04
  And I'm also eliminating my mixed engineer and engineer and all those guys that are usually making part of their li part piece of their living.
• 16:11
  It's it's what they depend on.
• 16:12
  So that's where inside and I I really struggle with.
• 16:16
  I really struggle with it.
• 16:17
  I don't I think I and still I'm the guy that would really rather spend the time and the money for us all to get to get together and try to achieve the goals that we've always tried to achieve.
• 16:27
  But I that's what I'm you can tell that I'm I'm a little bit waffling.
• 16:31
  I'm worried about it.
• 16:32
  I'm worried about those people.
• 16:33
  You know, and what happens when I get to the point where I just don't have time, and that's an easier thing for me to do.
• 16:38
  You know, just use the AI band, you know, rather than I mean, as far as just as far as when you write something, I mean, I could never imagine in my zillion years putting anything out that I that was AI.
• 16:49
  I've got to have real musicians and I gotta have myself.
• 16:51
  And I it's just the it's just the thrill of being imperfect and trying to be perfect and never gonna be perfect.
• 16:58
  And that's the thing about AI, it's sort of perfect.
• 17:00
  You know what I mean?
• 17:01
  Like you can tell it's so it's not perfect because it's wrong in parts, it's cliche in parts, but it's sterile, is the best way I can explain it.
• 17:09
  But the listener is just gonna want to be moved, and it has the ability to create something within a minute that can move you.
• 17:17
  So that's scary, right?
• 17:18
  You know, I've I've given this a a good bit of reflection, and uh, and this is gonna sound kind of Pollyanna coming from me, and that is that we are very, very early days with AI.
• 17:31
  It's we're under three years with this, and yet we we're also seeing the emergence of you know, generations now are walking the earth who will have always had AI.
• 17:41
  You know, we're we're we're starting there.
• 17:44
  But we're very early days here, very, very early days.
• 17:47
  And and I think that you know, your con your the the idea around the encyclical and going back to the uh you know the industrial revolution, early 1900s, 1910, 1920, 1930, Model T Fords, all that kind of stuff, that was profound changes.
• 18:06
  I mean, just the idea that there was a train that went from one side of the country to the other side of the country changed.
• 18:13
  We think about time.
• 18:15
  And so when we look backwards in history, we look at those things as if it was like, oh, well, they figured that out.
• 18:20
  Well, it was it was crazy back in the day.
• 18:24
  I mean, just the the the idea that you people would get on something that was moving that fast, just that physical thing was like a whole holy smokes.
• 18:34
  So I think what we what I'm hopeful for, this is my polyanopies.
• 18:37
  I heard a story of a 28-year-old who went on a trip with some other friends to Kyoto, Japan.
• 18:45
  And they wanted one of the things he wanted to do was to go to a ninja museum that's there.
• 18:50
  So he finds this ninja museum, and the person that's with him, they understood just a little bit of Japanese.
• 18:56
  They were able to read the sign that says, Well, it's closed, it's appointment only, and you have to call this number, but you have to be able to speak Japanese.
• 19:03
  And so the kid uses his phone, he goes to Claude, the AI, and says, Hey, you know, what do you think I should do here?
• 19:10
  And Claude says, Hmm, well, likelihood there's a store nearby where somebody does speak English and Japanese.
• 19:17
  Have them make the call for you.
• 19:19
  And he said they were in the museum 20 minutes later.
• 19:21
  And so here's why, here's why I think that story is relevant.
• 19:24
  What the the young man did was use AI as a way of saying, Can you help me solve this problem?
• 19:30
  Is there something missing here?
• 19:32
  And sure enough, oh, that's what a good suggestion that is.
• 19:34
  And if you start looking at like AI, I saw this morning on mine, my claude, uh, when I opened it up, it was like, hey, you're going to San Francisco.
• 19:41
  Here's like five walking tours of San Francisco, you would just love.
• 19:45
  Okay, that's just cool stuff, right?
• 19:46
  I mean, why not?
• 19:47
  I agree with that.
• 19:48
  I'm with you.
• 19:49
  So I think what's going to happen over time is we're going to sort out where this is working for us and where it is not.
• 19:55
  Humans are going to put it into its place.
• 19:57
  I don't know about you, but I'm already sick to death of AI generated images of whatever with whatever.
• 20:03
  I mean, to me, they're they're almost grotesque to look at.
• 20:07
  Yeah.
• 20:07
  Well, let me let me ask you this, speaking of grotesque.
• 20:10
  So where where are we going to draw a line when people are using it?
• 20:13
  They use it in politics, they're using it in a lot of ways, and and it's sort of a lot of hateful stuff, right?
• 20:19
  It was violent, violent, violent stuff, right?
• 20:21
  And so, uh and but they're doing it all in the name of humor, you know, using a humorous sort of uh coat, if you might, like coating around it.
• 20:29
  But the bottom line is, you know, so I guess what I'm saying is when is it gonna get to the point where you're gonna have to prove to someone that that wasn't re they're gonna get better at this, that you didn't do this act of whatever it was, right?
• 20:42
  You're gonna get to the point where and people believe anything.
• 20:45
  My mom still believes that I'm sending her a message on Facebook saying, I want I need money, or I need I I saw I saw you at the club or the bar.
• 20:57
  And my own mom goes, hey Steve, why why'd you message me that mom?
• 21:01
  I didn't.
• 21:01
  I didn't do that.
• 21:02
  I would never do that.
• 21:03
  I would call you or text you.
• 21:05
  And uh and so what I'm worried about is that fraud is gonna grow so huge, and at some point, you you a lot of people are gonna it's gonna get hostile.
• 21:14
  You're gonna see fights, literally physical fights, breakups, a lot of things because uh even communication may not be able to fix.
• 21:24
  Yeah, and I I think that's one of the that's one of the key points that Pope Leo makes in this encyclical.
• 21:29
  He really talks about this idea that we have to keep moral responsibility human.
• 21:34
  As leaders, it's vital.
• 21:36
  Yes.
• 21:36
  The moral responsibility that is that comes from us and our organizations is still human.
• 21:42
  It's not AI generated.
• 21:44
  It's not something that we're gonna allow AI to determine what's moral and what isn't moral, you know.
• 21:50
  Mike, Mike, but there's so many people that no so many people in the world.
• 21:54
  I'm sorry, I can't you got me worked up a little bit.
• 21:56
  Let me get worked up.
• 21:57
  So many people in the world that don't give a flying frog about.
• 22:00
  Moral compass.
• 22:03
  We talked about character on the last uh episode of Resonance and all that.
• 22:07
  They just don't care.
• 22:08
  So what is that gonna look like as far as the beast coming out?
• 22:13
  Like it's gonna get it's gonna get crazy, guys.
• 22:17
  Yeah, I think and I think that's the leadership responsibility, Steve.
• 22:20
  I think that that as leaders of companies that offer these AI programs and services, it's it's there.
• 22:28
  And that's I think this is what Pope Leo is referring to.
• 22:31
  It's their responsibility, it's their moral responsibility to make sure that these tools aren't giving people the opportunity to to create these hateful things and and you know those kinds of things that are that are you know totally made up by AI.
• 22:47
  And I think and I think that's a very, very, you know, the genie's out of the bottle now.
• 22:52
  Um yeah, but Mike, Mike, who's gonna who's gonna regulate that and who's gonna get in trouble for doing something that actually could cause serious damage in somebody else's life?
• 23:00
  Oh, and who that's nobody, nobody's gonna be responsible.
• 23:04
  Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 23:05
  And and I think that's where Pope Leo is saying this is this is a higher, you know, we talk about higher purpose vision.
• 23:12
  Well, this is the highest purpose that that this is something that that we have to demand as humanity, that we have to demand as the as as human beings to say we can't allow, and and and I think you're gonna see more and more come out of this from the Catholic Church now that he's you know release released this encyclical.
• 23:33
  I I think from a from a moral responsibility standpoint, we can't rely, and and he says it right in the document governments, industries, economies can't rely on having AI create this stuff for us because it's not human.
• 23:47
  And we have to understand that human dignity must come first and foremost before AI comes, you know.
• 23:54
  We can't let AI get ahead of that.
• 23:56
  And I think that's really spoken like a true monk guy, feral uh theologian.
• 24:02
  You know what I'm saying?
• 24:03
  But you're right.
• 24:04
  I mean, uh we gotta we gotta well, we gotta hope for that, right?
• 24:07
  Yeah, right.
• 24:07
  Yeah, you know, and I and it's interesting because I, you know, I I kind of form started formulating some thoughts on this from a leadership standpoint.
• 24:15
  And uh, you know, one of the things that that he talks about and and that's important for leaders is is that we have to design justice right in from the start.
• 24:23
  So when we begin to to build our organization and make decisions and that kind of thing in using AI and how we're gonna use it and that kind of thing, we have to design this idea of justice first before we implement the AI that we're gonna use for.
• 24:39
  So again, that's another idea that that, and I think this is this is where leaders are gonna need to be challenged.
• 24:45
  They're gonna need to be challenged to say, yeah, they are AI can be a great tool.
• 24:50
  It can be, it can create efficiencies, it can create uh speed, it can create all of those kinds of things.
• 24:57
  But if it's creating those kinds of things at the cost of human dignity and justice and the common good, then we're not using it the right way.
• 25:07
  What companies, okay, I'm just asking real quick, are gonna have the patience, the sta, right, to take the time to wait and make sure that it is justified, that there's justice involved and that there's ethics.
• 25:19
  I mean, I'm just asking you when they're racing against another company.
• 25:23
  Right there.
• 25:24
  Look at that number right there.
• 25:26
  When when they're it when they're in under the gun, look at Randy, right there, Randy.
• 25:29
  But it but it is interesting that when he made this this announcement of the of the encyclical the other day, the guy that was standing by his side is a co-founder of Anthropic.
• 25:39
  And so I do believe there are voices in the industry that do think, you know, think along these lines.
• 25:45
  I mean, there's all kinds of red flags coming up, you know, from various people in various places on AI that says, whoa, let's pump the brakes a little on this thing.
• 25:55
  And and and I think even, you know, even and and there's a whole section in the encyclical that he writes about autonomous war and allowing AI to make war decisions on who gets killed and who doesn't get killed, uh, taking the human aspect out of it completely.
• 26:11
  And, you know, I think that what this encyclical is trying to do is to really make sure that it gives some framework for leaders in any walk of life and for people in general to realize that there needs to be guardrails on this stuff.
• 26:26
  And and I think, you know, ultimately, I'd love to sit down and and talk to the Pope about that, but I think ultimately he would say that that that really is the whole basis of this is that we need to be careful about how it's used.
• 26:39
  Okay, but the guardrails, Randy, I'm gonna let you talk in a second.
• 26:41
  I'm sorry.
• 26:42
  Me and Mike are gonna let you talk, but I know you're absorbing everything, and something's about to come out of your mouth that's gonna be so just monumental that can't be but but uh and prophetic and prolific.
• 26:53
  But the the bottom line is who what'd you just say a second ago?
• 26:56
  I just I lost my train of thought.
• 26:58
  What what what did you just say?
• 26:59
  What was the last thing you said?
• 27:00
  The fact of of how we're using it and and who's responsible for it and that kind of thing.
• 27:05
  But I guess what I'm saying is by the time that everybody decides to regulate all this, it's gonna be too late.
• 27:11
  It's gonna be, it's just you're not it who's gonna be the decision makers that actually come together and actually make this important, like important enough.
• 27:21
  I don't think it's important enough in Congress.
• 27:23
  I don't think it's important enough because the fact that you have to talk about certain aspects of this, even bring it up, everybody should understand that that needs to be regulated and be, you know, with with a kid glove and certain aspects of it we all need it, it's awesome.
• 27:37
  But you just I just worry about how long it's gonna take before anybody comes together to actually make a real decision on it.
• 27:45
  And it that could take never.
• 27:46
  It could be never.
• 27:48
  Well, it's a dynamic, it's a dynamic thing, isn't it?
• 27:51
  So the the big ol' elephant in the room is that to Mike's earlier point that the genie's out of the bottle, what that genie has done is forever changed the arc of what work is going to look like in our culture.
• 28:08
  And not just our culture, in the world.
• 28:10
  AI is going to change particularly a lot of white-collar jobs.
• 28:17
  And that is a place that all all the white-collar people had always thought they were somehow invincible.
• 28:25
  Yeah, right.
• 28:26
  They weren't gonna get and certainly if you were a coder, you know, and now Claude can code better than most, you know.
• 28:35
  So it's like incredible.
• 28:37
  This idea, so the the big elephant in the room is 15 years.
• 28:40
  What are the jobs gonna look like?
• 28:42
  What is a job?
• 28:43
  How long does it take?
• 28:45
  And so there's a whole lot of stuff that I can imagine happening.
• 28:47
  I think you're gonna see four-day work weeks become something that's real.
• 28:51
  Which is wait, wait, back up.
• 28:52
  I've been telling us why do you think I don't have to be meet till Monday was written?
• 28:56
  I'm with you on that.
• 28:57
  I know.
• 28:57
  So it's not all bad, but it's also not all good.
• 29:01
  But what I will tell you it is is it is necessarily going to be wildly different than it is right now.
• 29:07
  And and so that's the big thing that an organization has to really get a hold of is I I can the the nature of work.
• 29:13
  I mean, we just take a look at what happened with COVID as far as remote work.
• 29:17
  Right after you know, after COVID, I with the numbers were uh it was like 80, 20 was remote during COVID.
• 29:23
  Now it's what come back a little bit, but it's still a huge number of people are able to work remotely.
• 29:28
  And so the fundamental nature of work has changed and it's gonna continue to change.
• 29:33
  So I think that's gonna be the arbiter of what becomes important and enforceable as it relates to issues of AI.
• 29:40
  The other thing I think you're gonna see is that people are getting more savvy about how they use TikTok and how they use you're already seeing younger people in particular begin to shut down and move away from or constrain the f the flow of streaming media.
• 29:56
  And that to me is a huge sign of made me made my heart go uh because it shows me there's a there's a there's a only so much you can take of this.
• 30:04
  You know, eight hours a day on streaming is you know just about two.
• 30:07
  So I'm hopeful that the human condition is going to ever so slowly and generationally adapt, but we're gonna lose a whole bunch of people along the way.
• 30:15
  Whole lot of people are gonna get hurt along the way.
• 30:17
  And and so I don't want to take away from what what you're talking about, Steve, because it it is real.
• 30:23
  Yeah, I don't think I mean one one of the one of the quotes from the from the encyclical, the pursuit of greater profits cannot justify choices that systematically sacrifice jobs.
• 30:33
  And and he talks about that whole idea of of the common good.
• 30:37
  I think the other the other piece that that he does touch on in this thing is this idea of common good from a standpoint of stewardship of resources and the fact that that AI is is sucking up so many resources.
• 30:50
  I mean, we're seeing that right now in Sioux Falls because there's a big battle about data centers and how much power they use and how much water they use and the amount of money that's being pumped into this stuff.
• 31:01
  It's all that aspect as well.
• 31:04
  Is are we being good stewards of the resources that we have in order, you know, are or are we just throwing caution to the wind and saying, let's generate as much AI stuff as we can generate?
• 31:17
  I think we're doing deeds.
• 31:18
  I think we're doing as make it go, make it go.
• 31:21
  Yeah, right.
• 31:22
  And it's a race, it's a race.
• 31:24
  It's it's like how much infrastructure can I get in during a period of time where there's no regulatory control on this, the rules are thrown out the window, it's the wild west, it is and get the deck built as fast as you possibly can.
• 31:40
  Now, because there's a huge pushback, you know.
• 31:42
  Right now, there's a huge pushback in South Dakota to not allow these data centers in or at least significantly restrict what they can use for power and water and all those kinds of things.
• 31:54
  The the people have stood up and said, I'm not sure this is such a great idea, you know.
• 31:59
  And uh so I think you'll see more of that pushback.
• 32:02
  People in Georgia and people in in Memphis, for example, that drinking water has been dramatically screwed up as a result of this stuff.
• 32:11
  Yeah.
• 32:12
  But you're right.
• 32:13
  I mean, this is this is not gonna go away.
• 32:15
  And and I think that this infrastructure around AI is also a part of this feta complete.
• 32:20
  It's already done.
• 32:21
  And now we just sort of have to suck it up.
• 32:23
  And and it's all connected, it's connected to the satellites that are connected to Starlink.
• 32:27
  This is all all these pieces are fitting in to create a world that's gonna have a lot less privacy where every single thing you do is gonna be scanned and monitored and checked and measured.
• 32:39
  And you know, take a look at what Walmart already knows about you, and it will blow your mind, you know.
• 32:44
  So that's gonna be on steroids.
• 32:47
  Yeah, it it is.
• 32:48
  It's on steroids now, you know.
• 32:50
  Interesting that this conversation.
• 32:52
  And I want you guys to know that the minute we get off of here, I'm gonna ask AI something.
• 32:56
  I mean, uh, but the tr the the truth is I get those parts and elements for me, and I see the benefit.
• 33:02
  I'm not acting like, oh, Steve, whatever.
• 33:05
  I'm just talking about just being cautious enough and and protective enough of the things that need to be protected and preserved.
• 33:12
  Not even protected, preserved because of culture and and culture, because of culture.
• 33:18
  That word alone stands for something, and culture are are those things are created by incredible moments of creativity, are things that identify a place, a sense of place, a purpose, a person, and all of that.
• 33:34
  And those elements are just so key to the those things, they can't be eliminated from the equation for a zillion years as long as people preserve those because they're they're built on something so beautiful and wonderful that they can never go away.
• 33:49
  And they have to be a remind at a constant constantly reminded to folks in every generation that proceeds and follows.
• 33:57
  That's all I'm saying.
• 33:59
  And I know where we're at.
• 34:00
  I get the horse in the buggy, gets replaced by the you know, the horse is probably better off.
• 34:05
  Bless the horse's heart and Achilles, slapping it all the time with a whip and all this.
• 34:10
  Like my father-in-law was talking about it yesterday.
• 34:12
  I'm bringing that up because he was saying, you know, you I remember when the whip, you know, they're talking about the whipping the horse and all that.
• 34:18
  Well, that went away when all of a sudden Ford and everybody started creating cars.
• 34:22
  And right.
• 34:23
  And there's some great benefit to that.
• 34:25
  And there was a great benefit to trains, and all of a sudden, towns were being formed around these tracks and that became uh all these incredible cities that have been, you know, that have been so important for our growth.
• 34:36
  So I get the positive side.
• 34:39
  I get 75% of the positive side of AI.
• 34:42
  I'm worried about the 25% or 30% that's gonna that's gonna be reckless for a lot of people's lives, families, ethical stuff, you know, the virtuous stuff.
• 34:53
  And uh that's that's my biggest concern.
• 34:55
  Yeah.
• 34:55
  And I, you know, I think, I think, I think Pope Leo is really bringing to light the fact, this idea of human dignity, the fact that we're all created in the image and likeness of God.
• 35:06
  And AI can't do that.
• 35:08
  AI can't create us in the image and likeness of God, you know, and so it really s begins with that whole aspect of dignity of the human person.
• 35:18
  And I I think when we when we start the conversations with that and then figure out how we can use AI to uh to help us with that, then that's a then then that works, you know.
• 35:30
  But I hear somebody singing happy birthday in the background.
• 35:37
  All right.
• 35:38
  Hey, somebody's recording a podcast over here.
• 35:42
  It's my it's my care.
• 35:44
  It's my mother-in-law's birthday, and they looked at me and they said, No, yeah.
• 35:48
  Right, who cares?
• 35:50
  I love it.
• 35:51
  It's gonna be a big celebration.
• 35:53
  Uh so yeah, well, yeah, the I think that it's a good time to wind it down since the party's getting started over here.
• 35:59
  I was gonna say they got some of that margarita mix uh flowing over there.
• 36:03
  Is that what's going on?
• 36:04
  Cecilia did bring her cooped, you know, her uh flavors.
• 36:09
  Last night it was used a lot, and uh she's got a good start to her brand.
• 36:13
  Cooped is called uh what is the website?
• 36:15
  Getcooped.com.
• 36:19
  I gotta order C O U P D.
• 36:22
  Apostom D, but not aposty.
• 36:24
  You tell her tell her by the time that we record the next podcast, I will have ordered some and there'll be a drink in in honor of her on the lemon drop party.
• 36:33
  They're apertifs and they're really good.
• 36:35
  I just like her senior thesis from college, and AI did not create it.
• 36:40
  I can tell you that.
• 36:41
  We'll end it with that.
• 36:42
  Uh hey, who wants to take it?
• 36:44
  Randy, bring us home.
• 36:46
  All right.
• 36:46
  Well, you know, Randy.
• 36:47
  I think we could, I think if we're doing this podcast five years from now, we'll probably still be talking about AI and trying to sort out what's going on.
• 36:55
  I think the important thing for our listeners is to switch your brain on to start being curious about this and paying attention to it.
• 37:03
  Switch your brain on to be more discerning about what you see.
• 37:07
  Start building an algorithm in your head that goes, well, that's AI, that's AI, so that you begin to just see it when it happens and understand it.
• 37:16
  And then I think the other thing is to use AI.
• 37:19
  I mean, to Steve's point, the only way to really begin to understand this is to just start playing around with it and see what it can do and not do.
• 37:26
  And I think you'll find it to be useful, if not a little terrifying, when you get down the road.
• 37:30
  But at the end of the day, thank you, Pope Leo, for taking this stand.
• 37:35
  Very important.
• 37:36
  I'm I think I would encourage everybody to go read the encyclical.
• 37:39
  It's very readable, wouldn't you say?
• 37:41
  Yeah, Mike.
• 37:42
  It's not it's not like a lot of, you know, it's not there's not a lot of that going on.
• 37:46
  No, no, no, no, it's it's very relatable.
• 37:48
  Very relatable stuff.
• 37:49
  Yeah, yeah.
• 37:50
  And I think to your point also, Mike, it's good.
• 37:52
  Catholicism's got nothing to do with this as far as what he's actually saying.
• 37:56
  We need to be worried about as human beings.
• 37:59
  Exactly.
• 38:00
  So let's let's be part of the message and really bring it in.
• 38:03
  Exactly.
• 38:05
  And and we can we can have some fun.
• 38:07
  And Steve, I will always love live music all the time.
• 38:11
  Absolutely.
• 38:12
  Happy birthday to everything going on right there, right?
• 38:17
  It's amazing.
• 38:18
  Yeah.
• 38:19
  It's amazing.
• 38:21
  We'll be back.
• 38:22
  Take it away there, Mike.
• 38:23
  You can find us at resonanceleader.com.
• 38:26
  Anything else, Steve?
• 38:27
  Oh, you can find us on your doorstep if you'd bring us in live.
• 38:31
  I mean, uh, I'm gonna have a guitar strap.
• 38:33
  These guys are gonna have all this incredible knowledge.
• 38:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:37
  We're gonna we can have a really open heart discussion and write write something together when it's all said and done that uh will last forever within your own confines of your world.
• 38:47
  Absolutely.
• 38:48
  All right, till next time, guys, we're signing off.com.