Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / What makes Craig Counsell tick, and what Pete Alonso wants

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What makes Craig Counsell tick, and what Pete Alonso wants · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When you pissed him all or when he was pissed
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: at the game. You knew it right away, like there
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: was no guessing.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory Foul Territories Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Sahadev Sharma with my co host Patrick Mooney. We're your
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic. Patrick, we have
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: a guest today, the Mets beat writer Will Salmon. Will's
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: got a lot to talk about. Since you know the
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Cubs are playing the Mets soon, we have a lot
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: of overlap here. He covered Craig Council for multiple years
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  Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. So Will welcome Patrick. Why don't you take
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: it away with the first question of Will.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you for joining us.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: You do a fantastic job covering the Mets for the Athletic.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: Love reading your stuff, especially when the team has been
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: yo yoing back and forth. I feel like you were
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: starting to prepare another one of yours where the season went.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: Wrong, disaster stories, and then they just picked it up. So,
• 1:08
  Speaker 5: I don't know, give us a snapshot here of like
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: where the Mets are at several weeks out from the
• 1:14
  Speaker 5: trade deadline.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: What do you how do you see this unfolding.
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  Speaker 6: Well, I woke up today and some of the things
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: that kind of went through my mind as I thought
• 1:21
  Speaker 6: about work was, Wow, what are the little anecdotes like
• 1:25
  Speaker 6: a pool from when this team goes above five hundred
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: from a.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Few weeks from a few weeks leading up to it.
• 1:33
  Speaker 7: We're not quite there yet here with this team, you know,
• 1:36
  Speaker 7: but things you're trending in the right direction finally, after
• 1:40
  Speaker 7: you know, they started zero to five and then they
• 1:42
  Speaker 7: won a few games in a row and they looked okay,
• 1:45
  Speaker 7: and then they stumbled again and they never really were
• 1:48
  Speaker 7: able to write it after that. So things are different
• 1:51
  Speaker 7: now though, And a lot of that is just because
• 1:54
  Speaker 7: of the offense. I think at least a lot of
• 1:56
  Speaker 7: people will point to some silly things and you know,
• 2:00
  Speaker 7: only meeting, and that had something to do with it.
• 2:03
  Speaker 8: I think actually after Jorge Lopez, the newest member of
• 2:08
  Speaker 8: the Cubs, I guess, right, guy, Yeah, after he tossed
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  Speaker 8: his glove and they got embarrassed by the Dodgers and
• 2:15
  Speaker 8: they embarrassed themselves in that series, they had this player's
• 2:19
  Speaker 8: only meeting, and I think a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Of stuff actually came out of that. I know that,
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  Speaker 1: like in the media. We could make a.
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  Speaker 7: Whole lot of fuss about that, but a lot of
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  Speaker 7: good stuff came out of that, And I think it's
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  Speaker 7: just a good example of a veteran team finally maybe
• 2:32
  Speaker 7: realizing what's in front of them and understanding with the
• 2:35
  Speaker 7: right players in that room, a guy like Jad Martinez,
• 2:39
  Speaker 7: Francisco Lindor like what it's going to take to change
• 2:42
  Speaker 7: things around.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's a lot of like regression
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to the mean.
• 2:45
  Speaker 7: In some ways with the lineup, and that will take them,
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: I think, at least far enough to keep them in
• 2:53
  Speaker 7: the conversation in the n a wild Card Central at
• 2:56
  Speaker 7: a wild Card picture, which we know is pretty jumbled anyway.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think Cubs fans are still well
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: maybe not at this point in time, but that there
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: are Cubs fans that still want the team to buy
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and be aggressive and get that bat, and they want
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  Speaker 2: it to happen now, right And I think Pete Alonzo
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: is someone everyone talks about, you know, related to the Cubs.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Are the Mets even close to thinking about selling it
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: seemed like a couple of weeks ago that was an inevitability,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: But is that even on their minds right now? And
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: is it are they shifting to thinking about buying Is
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: this a weight and see mode for them? And and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: is Alonso? I would assume Alonzo would be available.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So like what they tell me is that they haven't.
• 3:42
  Speaker 7: They're not there yet with this, And a lot of
• 3:45
  Speaker 7: times in my mind when I hear that, I'm.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Like, Okay, well that's probably not the truth.
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  Speaker 7: But in this context I believe it just because of
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  Speaker 7: like I just said before, how jumble things are in
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  Speaker 7: the wild card picture where you could really sell yourself
• 4:00
  Speaker 7: on the idea of making it, and then like why
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  Speaker 7: would you rip things apart if you're able to make
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  Speaker 7: the playoffs? I mean, this was a roster and a
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  Speaker 7: front office that said after especially after j D. Martinez,
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  Speaker 7: But even before that, in the beginning of spring training,
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  Speaker 7: they were talking about wanting to make the playoffs, and
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  Speaker 7: sites like fan Grafts actually had them right on the
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  Speaker 7: cusp of that. They didn't have them as a huge
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  Speaker 7: percentage to make it, but they were in the wild
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  Speaker 7: card picture. And then when they added JD. Martinez, that
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  Speaker 7: to me demonstrated like, hey, they are serious about wanting
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  Speaker 7: to improve this team and wanting to make the playoffs.
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  Speaker 7: While also trying to get a good look at some
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  Speaker 7: of their young players. They want to do both. It's
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  Speaker 7: hard to live in both of those worlds, but right
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  Speaker 7: now they look like they can pull it off, and
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  Speaker 7: so like why would you rip the band aid off
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  Speaker 7: and like say, like, okay, no, we're not going to
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  Speaker 7: do it actually, especially now after you win some games
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  Speaker 7: and you show a new show and prove yourself like, hey,
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  Speaker 7: we can actually make this run. As far as peter
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  Speaker 7: A Lonzo goes, yeah, he would be their biggest trade
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  Speaker 7: chip or one of their biggest, because I've had some
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: people tell me that Louis Severino would probably generate a
• 5:06
  Speaker 7: larger return actually just because of the amount of pitching
• 5:09
  Speaker 7: that's needed across the board. But make no mistake, I
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  Speaker 7: mean the peel Alonso is out there. He will get
• 5:14
  Speaker 7: you something, right, He's a perennial power threat. The thing
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: with that, though, is I don't perceive the Mets really
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  Speaker 7: being in a rush to make that decision one because
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: of where they are in the standings, but also, like
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  Speaker 7: Steve Cohen wants to compete. I think I think that's
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  Speaker 7: a huge part of who he is as the Mets owner.
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  Speaker 7: He wants to put a winning product out there, and
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  Speaker 7: there's a part of him that is pretty competitive that
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: wants to be in there. And there's another part of
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  Speaker 7: him that I think is very pragmatic that goes back
• 5:45
  Speaker 7: to his business side of things, and that's what we
• 5:47
  Speaker 7: saw last year when he said to himself, let's cut
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: our losses and let's make these trades.
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  Speaker 1: So there's both of those things at play.
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  Speaker 7: And as we talk still not even in the final
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: week of June here, it's just too early for the
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: Mets to decide which one they want to go to.
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  Speaker 7: And at the end of the day, could I see
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  Speaker 7: them standing pat Probably not, just because of the flexibility
• 6:08
  Speaker 7: of their roster. They have a ton of guys signed
• 6:10
  Speaker 7: to one year deal, so they may make some like
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  Speaker 7: hybrid moves up sorts where they get rid of this guy,
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: but get this guy kind of thing. I could totally
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: see that under David Sterns. But as far as like
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  Speaker 7: outright selling, I feel like that conversation is shifting a
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  Speaker 7: little bit.
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  Speaker 3: Now with Thelonzo being a free agent after this year.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I forget exactly.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: When, but he switched to Scott Boris, and obviously Boris
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: has a relationship.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: With Steve Cohen, he brought Brandon Nimo back.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: But I'm sure petere A Lonzo loves New York, but
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  Speaker 4: like that agent switch doesn't scream like I want to
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  Speaker 4: sign a deal or an extension with this team, Like
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: is boris an obstacle or how is that variable.
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  Speaker 3: In the equation when you look at the METSA and
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  Speaker 3: Pete A Lonzo.
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  Speaker 4: Which has been like a great relationship but may have
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  Speaker 4: an expiration day.
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  Speaker 7: Well, I wouldn't say that it's an indication that like
• 7:01
  Speaker 7: he doesn't want to re sign with New York, but
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: it is an indication that he wants to see what
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  Speaker 7: he's worth on the open market. That's most clear because
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: we've seen some bist agents and Brendan Nemo is an
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  Speaker 7: example of that. He resigned with the Mets after adding
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: Scott Morris as his agent. That came just as similar
• 7:19
  Speaker 7: as a Lobzo did. Right ahead of his walk hear
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: Brandon nemospish agency agencies to Scott Bors. He ended up
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  Speaker 7: resigning after seeing what he was worth and getting quite
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  Speaker 7: a large deal from Steve.
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  Speaker 1: Cohen and New York.
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  Speaker 7: As a matter of fact, now I don't know with
• 7:32
  Speaker 7: David Stearns and this new front office. If they be
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  Speaker 7: inclined to, it's more of a question about how long
• 7:40
  Speaker 7: are they inclined to go with Pilan don't want to deal.
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  Speaker 1: I think because you know, he means a lot to
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  Speaker 1: New York.
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  Speaker 7: He probably means more to the Mets than any other
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  Speaker 7: team because he's a homegrown star and the cachet that
• 7:51
  Speaker 7: could build you with some fans. But they're also not
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  Speaker 7: a dumb organization here, Like they're tried to rooves and
• 7:58
  Speaker 7: tried to and they see a guy who is playing
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  Speaker 7: first base that is at a position where that doesn't
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  Speaker 7: tend to age gracefully.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how long they can go. That said, I.
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  Speaker 7: Think he's a little bit better defensively that people give
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  Speaker 7: him credit for, and we'll see what kind of strides
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  Speaker 7: he makes towards the end of this year to maybe
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  Speaker 7: give a better full picture of his offensive potential as
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  Speaker 7: he as he gets a little bit older.
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  Speaker 2: There's this talk a lot in Chicago about the lack
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  Speaker 2: of a superstar in the lineup. Do you think the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Mets have a superstar in their lineup? An offensive superstar?
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  Speaker 2: Does Alonso fit that category? I'm not I mean, Lindor
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  Speaker 2: you know has Cashet, I don't know if he's an
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  Speaker 2: offensive superstar. Would you look at Pete A. Lonzo and
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: say that's an offensive superstar?
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  Speaker 1: He's not Aaron Judge, right like that. That's it's funny.
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  Speaker 1: It's funny.
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  Speaker 7: I say that just because since like twenty nineteen, I
• 8:53
  Speaker 7: see this stat a lot, probably nobody outside of New
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: York does. But Alonso is hitt the most home run
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  Speaker 7: since twenty nineteen, more than Judge, right, And it's like
• 9:00
  Speaker 7: that's it's popped out there all the time. But you know,
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  Speaker 7: he's not Aaron Judge. He is not that type of superstar.
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  Speaker 1: He's not Wan Soto. They're both I think, in that
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  Speaker 1: in that tier or two below.
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  Speaker 7: And it's hard for me to really pinpoint where exactly
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: because things are so blown up in New York that
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  Speaker 7: they are kind of huge stars here. But outside of
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: New York, do you really think would you say to yourself,
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: who are the top five ten players? Those guys don't
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: really get named, and I think we see that even
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: reflected in the All Star balloting, where they're they're not
• 9:32
  Speaker 7: really anywhere clothes. And that's after obviously a slow start
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  Speaker 7: to this season in some regards for them, But yeah,
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  Speaker 7: I don't I don't really see them as major.
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  Speaker 1: Superstars, but they are stars here. I would say.
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  Speaker 3: You mentioned David Stearns, who you covered in Milwaukee, and
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: he's doing his thing.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: In New York.
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  Speaker 4: Craig Council is here in Chicago. The Brewers are still rolling.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Are you surprised and what what is their secret?
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  Speaker 7: I'm a little surprised because I didn't like the Corbet
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: Burns trade at first, and I think I even like blasted.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I said it, like.
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  Speaker 7: It's like it's so tired of like just like the
• 10:19
  Speaker 7: we got to win every year type of thing, like
• 10:22
  Speaker 7: you want to win now. Yeah, but it's worked out,
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: like it's crazy. Uh that kid orties that that God
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  Speaker 7: is great, done really well. But what other people around
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: the game pointed out to me when I had the
• 10:35
  Speaker 7: conversations about the Brewers and Craig Counsel even for that matter, is,
• 10:40
  Speaker 7: you know, Craig got a lot of a lot of
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  Speaker 7: I think respect and a lot of fanfare for like
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: his management of the bullpen over in Milwaukee.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: And lo and behold their bullpen is cooking without them.
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  Speaker 7: And so what somebody told me was like, hey, they've
• 10:58
  Speaker 7: kind of cracked the code like a few of the
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: other teams around the league as far as getting affordable
• 11:04
  Speaker 7: guys off the fringes, off the waiver wire, tinkering with
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  Speaker 7: their stuff and just building out the depth that way.
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  Speaker 7: And so they've kind of made it, I don't want
• 11:13
  Speaker 7: to say, like idiot proof that's that's super hard, but
• 11:17
  Speaker 7: like they've made it so that there's a bunch of
• 11:20
  Speaker 7: arms in there that like, if you're a veteran guy
• 11:23
  Speaker 7: like a Pat Murphy or a Craig Council who's been
• 11:26
  Speaker 7: in this game for a long time and you know
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  Speaker 7: what you're doing, you have depth to pull from there.
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: And they've been tested. I mean, it's kind of weird
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: to say that because they've had so many injuries and
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: so many pitching issues over there, but I think it's
• 11:39
  Speaker 7: a testament to just how their front office works and
• 11:41
  Speaker 7: just how good they are at pitching development, that they
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: have all these arms at their disposal and they just
• 11:47
  Speaker 7: keep turning them out. And so for me, that's the
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: biggest difference that I see, and that's really dawned on me,
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: is that, like, yes, Craig Council definitely is a superb manager,
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: and Pat Murphy probably too. I haven't covered him on
• 12:02
  Speaker 7: that level, but a lot of it comes down to,
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: I think just the way their infrastructure is built over there,
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: and just the difference of pitching development and how far
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: and how much they can get sweed out from that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: It's funny that you bring that up. They just don't
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: get a lot of publicity for what they do well
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: there right in Milwaukee. And I remember years ago I
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: wrote about the Cub's pitching lab and I had a
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: lot of details in there, right, a lot of background,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: and someone from the Brewers texted me and like, what
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the hell, who's giving you this information? And why?
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Like why would they tell you this?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Like we would never tell anybody in the media any
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: of this stuff, is essentially what they said. I didn't
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: think there was anything groundbreaking in there that I wrote.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: You know, it was info and it was useful, But
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I just find like the Brewers are insanely secretive, right,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: you know that will right? They like, I'm sure you've
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: known whenever there's someone in the public that's hired by
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the Brewers and they say, I can't like someone's hired
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: from the public, and they say, I've been hired by
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: an MLB team. I can't say who It's always the Brewers,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: That's that's always who it is, right, But like my
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: point is like, is it the is it player development
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: that that is the standout there?
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Is it pro scouting?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is it? Is it?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I know they're they're amateur scoutings had better results of late,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Like what is the is it the is it? All
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: of it working hand in hand? Like what what what
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: stands out there?
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 13:34
  Speaker 7: I think they do a good job, similar to the
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: Cleveland Guardians about just they were early teams with like
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: this pitching space of like saints to themselves. Hey, like
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: there's a lot of information out there and it's I
• 13:48
  Speaker 7: don't want to say it's low risk, but it's a
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: huge investment that we can make in this and this
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: will kind of close the gap for us and get
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: us to a consistent level where we could kind to
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: compete with teams that are going to outspend us. And
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: so if we invest in this space in player development
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: and technology for pitching especially, then we can make up
• 14:10
  Speaker 7: some ground. And so they're seeing the fruits of that,
• 14:13
  Speaker 7: and I think that's the biggest difference between why they
• 14:16
  Speaker 7: are or have been. Maybe this year's a little bit different,
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: but their pitching development and their hitting development, we're two
• 14:23
  Speaker 7: totally different things, and we see that across. The Guardians
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: are another example of that right where they always have
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: good pitching and then hitting a suspect.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: It's very similar to the Brewers and a lot of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that comes down to those are teams. Like I said
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: about being safe with the investment, that would be more
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of a risky investment because there isn't as much information
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: out there, so like you're gonna be taking like a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: huge risk there and investing in something that hasn't seen
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: results yet. And so that's why I feel like there's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: a discrepancy between their hitting and their pitching. But yeah,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: for me, it comes down to just having that and
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: having that idea there and then having people who have
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: been there for a while like Matt Arnold. I don't
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: think it's enough credit for being there, and he got
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: a little bit overshadowed by David Stearns, but he's been
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: there for a long time. They have some other folks
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: as well. Cam Cashrow does a great job in their
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: player development. He came from their their pitching side of
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: things at first. Now he oversees everything as far as
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: player development goes, those are.
• 15:15
  Speaker 7: Two guys, and I can rattle up a bunch of
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: others that have been there for a while and then
• 15:19
  Speaker 7: they've had that continuity in place.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: Well, he gave us a great scouting report on Craig
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: Council basically when we were all floored at the GM
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: meetings last November when when this went down, and I
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: think Council's getting used to Chicago. We've it's it's been
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: interesting to like kind of learn some of his tics.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: I think he's has a sense of humor, but he's
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: not like, haha funny, and he kind of keeps guarded.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: He likes very.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: Literal specific questions and I think he's very honest and forthright.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: But if you kind of go with a concept filibuster,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: a big what are you? What are you asking? And
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: I think some people can get turned off by that
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: because he doesn't just like play along for the like
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: you know, regional sports. Now, I was wondering, what was
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: it like covering him on a day to day.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Basis in Milwaukee. Yeah, that that is right on. That's
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: a great assessment. That spot on for me.
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: I think like one story that I could share that
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: would highlight maybe like a little bit of his personality,
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: and he shared it a little bit too. So I
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: think it's kind of funny because somebody had Willia Domas
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: trade a couple of years ago. That always gets a
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: little that gets picked up in the Milwaukee media sometimes
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: where at least they used to because it made such
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: a huge difference for them that specific year get carried
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: over whatever. I had once asked him like, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: why the hell are you guys doing this, like you're
• 16:43
  Speaker 7: trading way two pictures blah blah blah, and like he
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: brought that up as like you know, Wilson having asked
• 16:49
  Speaker 7: me once that like what were we doing? And so
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: I put on a saying though that like in that conversation, though,
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: I just just think we remember him telling me like, look,
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: well it's a trade, like we gave up.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Something, we're giving some we got something, we got to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: get something up. That's how it works.
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: And it's like that was it, And you know, not
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: all the conversations are that like that, but in a
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: straight line. But I do find what you said to
• 17:13
  Speaker 7: be spot on because he's somebody who has like a
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: high ps meter and he will sniff it out and
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: if he gets turned off I think easily by people
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: who are not prepared and who are not there and
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: who don't have a good feel for like what's going on.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And he just doesn't suffer fools in that way.
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: And so I respect that a lot because you had
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: to come with him and you have to know your stuff,
• 17:36
  Speaker 7: and he sees things I think before they happen a
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: lot of times too. But one thing in particular about
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: like even like the pitch clock, when like that was
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: getting talked about, not introduced you, but just even talked about.
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: He was somebody that told me early on, like, look,
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: they got to be prepared for perhaps some injury issues here,
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: or they have to be prepared for philocity going down.
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: So he sees things that are like way ahead of
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: the game, I feel like before they unfold. And I
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: think that's the mark of somebody who just knows their stuff.
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: And obviously he's been around the game his whole life.
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: But he also I think had that little area of
• 18:09
  Speaker 7: front office work with the Brewers before he became their manager,
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: and so he's just a guy that I think is
• 18:14
  Speaker 7: like very seamless into the modern day manager type of
• 18:17
  Speaker 7: thing where you have to work hand in hand with
• 18:20
  Speaker 7: your front office. So yeah, I think like the media side,
• 18:24
  Speaker 7: I'm not there in Chicago, so I don't know the
• 18:26
  Speaker 7: difference between Chicago and Milwaukee with how he's handling things
• 18:29
  Speaker 7: on a day to day, But I just know that
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: at the end of the day, he's like the right
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: guy for that type of job because he one, he
• 18:36
  Speaker 7: deserves it. I think he just is on a different
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: level compared to a lot of people in the game.
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: But secondly, he can handle the harsh criticism I think
• 18:45
  Speaker 7: sometimes when things are not unfolding the way that they
• 18:47
  Speaker 7: should be.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious, you know, fans right now want him
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: to go off. I think I noticed yesterday there were
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of comments from fans that why isn't council
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: of defend The zone was terrible yesterday but for both ways,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: and council didn't say much. Bob Melvin got tossed. I
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: think fans wanted to see that happen from council, and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: they probably have for weeks now. The Brewers, you know
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: that they may always win the division in Cubs, fansize
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it and overperform in different ways, but they've had their
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: offensive struggle, so I'm sure they've had a month and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: a half, two months like the Cubs have just had.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: How was council handling those moments? How does he handle
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: bad moments in general?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: How like what.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Sort of things does he do that you that you've
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: noticed that, Okay, this guy is doing this as a
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: tactical thing, he's trying to fire up his team or
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: does he do things like that or is it just
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: what we've heard from Jed and and how we've kind
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: of observed he's very steady. Is that just how it
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: always is?
• 19:56
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think he's gonna I think he's going to
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: operate more on that level, more on that volume of
• 20:02
  Speaker 7: like he's going to try to be as consistent as possible,
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: and we see that a lot from managers, I think,
• 20:07
  Speaker 7: probably too much, right, So we do a little bit
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: more characters in this game, But like, I think he
• 20:14
  Speaker 7: wants to strike that tone a lot, and I think
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: a lot of that comes down to the message that
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: he wants to send to his players, and so he's
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: never going to I think he does actually a pretty
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: fair job, or at least he did Milwaukee. I'm not
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: sure how it is in Chicago, but I think he
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: does a pretty fair job of being like critical or
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: giving you a straight answer on like why somebody is
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: slumping or why something has happened without throwing his guy
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: under the bus.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I think he.
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: Walks that line pretty well for what our expectations are there, because.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: We know that they're usually not going to just slam
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a guy.
• 20:48
  Speaker 7: But I think he does give you some good insight
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: into like why a guy's struggling, or why a certain
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: plate unfolded the way he did, whatever the case is,
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: without going overboard. I think he's really good at delivering
• 21:00
  Speaker 7: bad news to players too. And I think he really
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: relies on his experience as a player as somebody who
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: was one of the like the last guys on the
• 21:07
  Speaker 7: roster kind of thing a lot of times, as as
• 21:10
  Speaker 7: a utility type, and so I think he he understands
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: the delicate balance that's necessary with that. So I think
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: a lot of it that we see sometimes in the
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: media is performative, and it just goes back to that
• 21:23
  Speaker 7: he's just he's just not he's just not a fake guy,
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: Like he's not some kind of like fake tough guy.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Like if he's if he's pissed, you're gonna always pissed.
• 21:31
  Speaker 7: And it's gonna be genuine and it's gonna come out
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: and it's going to not be some fake for show,
• 21:37
  Speaker 7: I guess.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I really respected about him
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 7: When you pissed him off or when he was pissed
• 21:43
  Speaker 7: at the game, you knew it right away, like there
• 21:45
  Speaker 7: was no guessing.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: I think we've definitely seen that with counsel. And like
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: I had said earlier, Will like you gave us a
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: great scouting report, and for all our listeners, I can't
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: recommend Will's coverage enough. Even if you're not like a
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: Mett like, you can hear in his answers, the depth
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: of his understanding of the game, the contacts and relationships
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: that he has throughout the baseball industry. After covering a
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: couple of teams that have had a lot of a
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: lot of shuffling going on, that definitely helps as well.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: That Will we'll see really both sides of the.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Big market small market spectrum.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: And I think it's always fascinating to read because you
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: pick up on, like I said earlier, those mets on
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: the verge of collapse, you know, most expensive flop in
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: baseball history. You're all over that, So Cups fans, if
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: you want to read I guess now you're onlike the
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: hopeful track of the Cubs fans can look at the
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: mats and be like, hey, I think you wrote it
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: today of like one good week and it totally changes
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: the trajectory of your season. But with the way both
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: these teams have gone, there's probably gonna be a lot
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: more down moments as well.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll just I'll just echo with what Patrick said.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: If there are young writers or anyone that wants to
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: get into this business, Will is the type of person
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: you should be as is like he's paying attention to everything,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: constantly thinking about what he can how he can get better,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: and and just like stands out among the group very quickly.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: How long have you been doing this in baseball?
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Five years?
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Six years?
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: My first actually after college?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah so so not even so I thought it was longer,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: but Will Will immediately stood out. And and you know,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the athletic is lucky enough to have young writers so
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: like that. But but Will has always stood out to me.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: So I appreciate all the work you do. Will appreciate
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: you coming on, uh, and and thanks for thanks for
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: joining us. Uh, We'll see you this weekend in Chicago.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be fun, guys. Thanks for having me. Love
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: what you guys do as well.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Thanks well, Thanks so much for listening to Northside Territory.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: I'm Sahadi Sharma. That's Patrick Mooney. Make sure to read
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: our work at The Athletic. Make sure to subscribe, rate,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: and review to this podcast and whatever platform you use.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: We'll be back at you soon talking more Cubs baseball.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. Take care,