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What’s next for Shota Imanaga and Kyle Tucker? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.
0:08
Speaker 1: I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are
0:11
Speaker 1: your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic. Patrick, I
0:16
Speaker 1: don't know if you want to call it a surprise
0:19
Speaker 1: or not, but it comes as a you know, there
0:22
Speaker 1: was some rumblings that showed am Monaga wasn't going to
0:25
Speaker 1: accept that that qualifying offer and hit free agency. But
0:29
Speaker 1: when when the deadline came, showed am Minaga accepts it
0:33
Speaker 1: and he is back to Chicago on a one year deal.
0:38
Speaker 1: That is, you know, that's depth for the rotation at
0:42
Speaker 1: minimum upside of a guy that we've seen pitched like
0:46
Speaker 1: an ace. Takes out one need for the team in
0:50
Speaker 1: the sense that you probably with shotawalking, needed to starters,
0:55
Speaker 1: no doubt starters, I'd say, no doubt rotation starters, and
0:58
Speaker 1: now you can feel pretty good about targeting one guy.
1:02
Speaker 1: Depending on cost however you want to spend, it's kind
1:07
Speaker 1: of one no doubt rotation guy and continue to build depth.
1:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:13
Speaker 3: I really thought this was a toss up, and I
1:16
Speaker 3: think depending on when we were looking at the situation,
1:19
Speaker 3: you could have been.
1:20
Speaker 2: Leaning one way or the other, but ultimately.
1:22
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be pretty good for both sides.
1:26
Speaker 3: Like this is the ultimate Cubs deal, right of there's
1:31
Speaker 3: no such bad thing as a one year deal. I
1:33
Speaker 3: know that's an old baseball saying that Jed has used
1:36
Speaker 3: in the past. And I look at this free agent
1:41
Speaker 3: class of pitchers and there's a lot of talented guys,
1:45
Speaker 3: but I think each one of them has, you know,
1:47
Speaker 3: some legitimate question marks, you know, surrounding their their resumes,
1:53
Speaker 3: and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Shoda
1:57
Speaker 3: could pitch closer to his you know, Rookie of the
2:02
Speaker 3: Year contender, Cy Young contender version of twenty twenty four
2:07
Speaker 3: then the guy we saw in September and October.
2:10
Speaker 2: I think.
2:13
Speaker 3: Some of that stuff that showeda went through towards the
2:16
Speaker 3: end of the second season was the stuff we thought
2:18
Speaker 3: we were going to see in twenty twenty four.
2:21
Speaker 2: It was just.
2:22
Speaker 3: Weirdly, oddly sequenced, and you know, I could totally see
2:28
Speaker 3: him being a very good piece for this team next year. Obviously,
2:33
Speaker 3: a little over twenty two million dollars is going to
2:36
Speaker 3: impact the Cubs off season. I think for most businesses,
2:40
Speaker 3: if you have a line item of twenty.
2:42
Speaker 2: Two million dollars. It's going to be noticeable.
2:46
Speaker 3: But I don't think this precludes that the Cubs from getting,
2:50
Speaker 3: like you said, another good starting pitcher and upgrading the
2:54
Speaker 3: club in other areas.
2:55
Speaker 2: I mean, they.
2:57
Speaker 3: No one wants to hear the look Cole Hamill's picked
3:01
Speaker 3: up his option. It's like we signed a free agent.
3:03
Speaker 3: I mean, we we've been through that off season before.
3:06
Speaker 3: There's still a lot of a lot of areas and
3:08
Speaker 3: avenues for them to pursue.
3:11
Speaker 1: Was that Cole Hamill's pick picking up his option and
3:14
Speaker 1: then or they picked up Cole Hamill's option and they
3:16
Speaker 1: had to trade Drew Smiley? Was that the same offseason? Yeah?
3:19
Speaker 1: Like it was just that was that was that that
3:22
Speaker 1: They're not in that situation? And I and I think
3:25
Speaker 1: there some people may look at this as this was
3:29
Speaker 1: they didn't plan for this. Look, they they wouldn't have
3:32
Speaker 1: offered this if it if it somehow cramped their their
3:36
Speaker 1: plans for the offseason. Like the this was they didn't
3:41
Speaker 1: have to offer him the qualifying offer. They knew there
3:43
Speaker 1: was a chance. Like obviously Shoda was SHOWEDA and his
3:48
Speaker 1: agency were going to try and look for like what
3:51
Speaker 1: what else is out there? And they came to the
3:53
Speaker 1: conclusion like it's it's hard once once you have that
3:57
Speaker 1: qualifying offer, like the offers are going to be a
3:59
Speaker 1: little bit different because you're attached to a draft pick.
4:02
Speaker 1: Is showed him Anaga after the end of the season
4:05
Speaker 1: that he had the type of pitcher someone's going to
4:08
Speaker 1: be offering, you know, a multi year deal to that's
4:12
Speaker 1: going to surpass what did it have to surpass, like
4:15
Speaker 1: thirty something million? Yeah, essentially, right, that's what you wanted,
4:20
Speaker 1: what you wanted, and then and and give up a
4:23
Speaker 1: draft pick. I don't know if that's the case, Like
4:26
Speaker 1: that's that's a borderline call for these teams, the way
4:31
Speaker 1: front offices work now. I think the optimistic way to
4:34
Speaker 1: look at show him Anaga, and I think there are
4:36
Speaker 1: some people that believe this within the organization is that
4:41
Speaker 1: look what he he worked hard to get back. I
4:46
Speaker 1: don't know if he fully trusted that hamstring. It's the
4:51
Speaker 1: first time he's had that type of injury. He probably
4:55
Speaker 1: needs a full off season to to kind of get
4:59
Speaker 1: the confidence in that lower half back. But I certainly
5:03
Speaker 1: believe that it impacted him, and I think there are
5:05
Speaker 1: people that like saw Like if you look at all
5:08
Speaker 1: the data and all the things that they have collected,
5:10
Speaker 1: I think there's stuff that suggests that that like, yeah,
5:13
Speaker 1: he probably wasn't fully right and now it's incumbent upon
5:19
Speaker 1: the Cubs to get him right. And they probably there
5:22
Speaker 1: were probably steps. I don't know if there were steps
5:25
Speaker 1: missed or not done as well as they should have
5:28
Speaker 1: been done over the in the season. You'd like to
5:33
Speaker 1: have seen that happen in season. I think you should.
5:39
Speaker 1: You can have faith that they can get the right
5:42
Speaker 1: work done in the off season, whether it's getting that
5:46
Speaker 1: tick or two back, whether it's just getting the confidence back,
5:51
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Maybe probably both. I think I think
5:53
Speaker 1: it's fair to say that showed I had a little
5:55
Speaker 1: confidence ding seeing those results. Yes, and that's that's that's hard.
6:01
Speaker 1: That's you know, a guy that had kind of carved
6:04
Speaker 1: everyone up for a year and a half suddenly is
6:07
Speaker 1: having these results, and it's obviously you start to wonder
6:11
Speaker 1: what's going on. But I think I think there's a
6:14
Speaker 1: path for him to maybe maybe we don't see first
6:17
Speaker 1: half of twenty twenty four again, uh, but if you see,
6:21
Speaker 1: if you avoid the second half of twenty twenty five,
6:24
Speaker 1: it's and you get whatever that middle section is, that's
6:27
Speaker 1: really good. That's a really good picture and easily worth
6:31
Speaker 1: the one year, twenty two million dollar deal. And I think,
6:34
Speaker 1: you know, that's what they're looking for. If he can
6:36
Speaker 1: be a three, if he can give them a three
6:38
Speaker 1: five era, it's a huge win. It's a it's like
6:41
Speaker 1: that's a steal and and then you just hope, uh,
6:46
Speaker 1: from the Cubs point of view, that this other picture
6:49
Speaker 1: that they signed, whether it's whether they go big with
6:51
Speaker 1: Dylan Cees, whether they get someone like Michael King. I
6:55
Speaker 1: do believe from both our reporting that it's not that
6:58
Speaker 1: it's not purely a Matthew Boyd type. We obviously worked
7:01
Speaker 1: out brilliantly, but I don't think I think we're looking
7:04
Speaker 1: a level above that, uh and hoping to acquire someone. Obviously,
7:09
Speaker 1: I think if you everything I read, obviously we're not
7:12
Speaker 1: covering other teams, but everything I read, it seems like
7:15
Speaker 1: whenever I read about a different team, they're looking for
7:17
Speaker 1: pitching as well. So this market may get a little crazy,
7:21
Speaker 1: but seeing them accept qualifying offers some of these pitchers,
7:26
Speaker 1: maybe they went out there and and maybe it's not
7:28
Speaker 1: as crazy as I think it's going to be. I
7:29
Speaker 1: don't know. I can never tell. When so many qualifying
7:32
Speaker 1: offers are accepted, I wonder it's like, what are they
7:34
Speaker 1: hearing on the market, But I guess I guess that's
7:37
Speaker 1: what the next month plus will tell us.
7:39
Speaker 3: I mean, the qualifying offer number has gotten so high too,
7:43
Speaker 3: that you're talking about you're approaching almost half of Showda's
7:51
Speaker 3: initial guarantee over four years, you know, consolidated into one season.
7:57
Speaker 3: You're talking about realizing in one season a huge chunk
8:02
Speaker 3: of that two year option window he could have picked
8:06
Speaker 3: up in terms of twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven.
8:10
Speaker 3: I think there's an element of you showed to having
8:13
Speaker 3: a bit of a chip on his shoulder of wanting
8:17
Speaker 3: to put together something closer to that All Star season
8:22
Speaker 3: and then going back out on the market rather than
8:26
Speaker 3: accepting that security of a two year deal, which he
8:29
Speaker 3: could have done in that intricate series of options off
8:34
Speaker 3: the original deal. And so I think, you know, both
8:39
Speaker 3: sides kind of have to do better here, right, Like,
8:42
Speaker 3: we can't blame one side or the other entirely, but yeah,
8:47
Speaker 3: maybe the cub sort of either tinkered a bit too
8:51
Speaker 3: much off an amazing first season or missed something as
8:55
Speaker 3: he was coming up off the hamstring and also showed up.
8:59
Speaker 3: Has to look at his own performance as well and realize,
9:03
Speaker 3: like the Cubs do see this sort of cliff coming
9:06
Speaker 3: right as he gets deeper into his thirties, Like they
9:09
Speaker 3: did not like the idea of committing a third season
9:13
Speaker 3: to him, and clearly the rest of the baseball industry
9:16
Speaker 3: had some level of reservation about his future performance, and
9:22
Speaker 3: some of that I think was baked into the initial
9:24
Speaker 3: evaluations coming out of Japan. So again, I still think
9:30
Speaker 3: it'll work out for both sides, assuming that the rest
9:36
Speaker 3: of this Cub's off season.
9:40
Speaker 2: Is more lively and that they.
9:42
Speaker 3: Do pursue, not just pursue and check in on a
9:47
Speaker 3: higher tier of pitching, but actually land a legitimate starting
9:51
Speaker 3: pitcher that you would feel comfortable starting a playoff game,
9:54
Speaker 3: and maybe Shoda gets back there that would be sort
9:56
Speaker 3: of like a bonus. I don't think you go into
9:58
Speaker 3: the season thinking that, or like assuming that.
10:02
Speaker 2: It would just be a good hedge against maybe.
10:06
Speaker 3: Kate Horton taking a step back or Matthew Boyd not
10:11
Speaker 3: staying as healthy so that you can slow play justin
10:14
Speaker 3: Steele's you know, recovery rehab process after elbow surgery.
10:22
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I think if we go into next season
10:27
Speaker 1: and showed aim Monaga is almost like a third three
10:30
Speaker 1: or four in that rotation, and then could even be
10:33
Speaker 1: pushed to five, justin Steele, if we're if we're believing
10:36
Speaker 1: the end of jameson die own season and and they
10:40
Speaker 1: add one more pitcher and we believe what Horton did. Uh,
10:44
Speaker 1: there's there's a chance that we look at this and
10:47
Speaker 1: show Managa is like a four or five in that rotation.
10:51
Speaker 1: I think you take that in a second and then
10:53
Speaker 1: you figure out the rest as it goes. And if
10:55
Speaker 1: he gives you upside, great and it's a huge win
10:58
Speaker 1: for both sides, and then maybe he can cash in.
11:01
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens if there's baseball in twenty seven.
11:03
Speaker 1: But let's not get that far.
11:07
Speaker 3: You need pictures to get you in the playoffs too,
11:09
Speaker 3: you know, I know we get hung up.
11:10
Speaker 2: On the idea of you know, a playoff.
11:13
Speaker 3: Starter, like, oh, can he throw four and a third
11:15
Speaker 3: innings against a good team in October. It's like you
11:18
Speaker 3: need guys that can get you there and show proven
11:21
Speaker 3: that he helped them get there this year, and basically
11:24
Speaker 3: he's sort of salvaged the twenty twenty four season at
11:28
Speaker 3: least made it a little more respectable than what, you know,
11:31
Speaker 3: really could have been an ugly, ugly season. It was
11:35
Speaker 3: disappointing season, but it could have gotten really bad if
11:38
Speaker 3: he had not really kind of held that team together
11:41
Speaker 3: with just an amazing performance.
11:43
Speaker 1: Absolutely. All right, let's take a quick break in talk
11:46
Speaker 1: about some offense.
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Speaker 1: Patrick, Uh, we can't ignore the offense. Uh. I feel
12:56
Speaker 1: like we've done a good job of making it clear.
13:00
Speaker 1: I mean, Jen and Carter have done a good job
13:02
Speaker 1: of making it clear what their priority is. And we've
13:05
Speaker 1: kind of been saying this since we got hints of
13:09
Speaker 1: it during the playoffs. It was pretty clear to us
13:13
Speaker 1: that this was going to be their priority. How they
13:15
Speaker 1: look to improve is pitching. I think it's a combination
13:20
Speaker 1: of kind of seeing how the playoffs work, kind of
13:24
Speaker 1: seeing where they stood pitching wise, and also with the
13:27
Speaker 1: market holds, like there's more availability with free agency and
13:31
Speaker 1: trades when it comes like on the pitching side, and
13:34
Speaker 1: it probably has to do with the deadline as well.
13:38
Speaker 1: You can get someone like au Henny O Suarez a
13:42
Speaker 1: hot bat. Obviously he didn't do great in the final
13:44
Speaker 1: two months, but I'm just saying you can get a
13:46
Speaker 1: bat that's expiring much cheaper than you can even get
13:49
Speaker 1: a pitcher that's that's expiring. So it makes sense for
13:53
Speaker 1: them to focus on let's focus our efforts on pitching
13:57
Speaker 1: and maybe we can upgrade during the season and if needed,
14:00
Speaker 1: on offense or do some tinkering with offense. But I
14:03
Speaker 1: guess that's all to say, like, I think we're at
14:06
Speaker 1: the point where you and I kind of were a
14:09
Speaker 1: year ago, and now everyone else is. When I say
14:12
Speaker 1: everyone else, I mean the fans have now accepted that
14:14
Speaker 1: crowd Tucker's not coming back. This is a one off,
14:19
Speaker 1: one year thing that made sense to get to another level,
14:23
Speaker 1: consolidate some war as maybe Carter or Jed would put it,
14:27
Speaker 1: and have that star on your team and get you
14:30
Speaker 1: into the playoffs and look like a very good, potent
14:34
Speaker 1: offense team in general. Obviously the offense sputtered down the
14:38
Speaker 1: stretch there, but you know, for three and a half months,
14:41
Speaker 1: that was an impressive group. And now you know, you
14:46
Speaker 1: don't even see his name in rumors. I don't think
14:49
Speaker 1: you and I are surprised, but I've noticed some people
14:51
Speaker 1: like they'll read an article like from a national writer
14:55
Speaker 1: and see six teams mentioned, and it's like the Cubs
14:58
Speaker 1: are there.
15:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's almost as if the Cups acquired him, thinking
15:05
Speaker 3: he'd be a rental player and would sign with another
15:09
Speaker 3: team to a mega deal that.
15:11
Speaker 2: They're not prepared to authorize.
15:13
Speaker 3: Like I think if you've, like you said, I've been
15:17
Speaker 3: following our work, that's all signs have been pointing in
15:21
Speaker 3: that direction. And I think it's interesting just coming off
15:25
Speaker 3: the GM meetings in some recent transactions as well, we
15:27
Speaker 3: were talking about this off.
15:28
Speaker 2: Air of.
15:30
Speaker 3: Cups view the Tucker trade as kind of a one
15:34
Speaker 3: off deal, and we're not just talking about Tucker's free agency.
15:39
Speaker 3: It's also just kind of the structure and spirit of
15:42
Speaker 3: that transaction of aggressively trading for one year of a
15:48
Speaker 3: player giving up you know, I think it was maybe
15:51
Speaker 3: fourteen potential years of club control that Carter Hawkins essentially
15:55
Speaker 3: ruled that out, you know, when we asked him about
15:58
Speaker 3: that in Las Vegas, that that was kind of a
16:01
Speaker 3: moment in time that their goal is to kind of
16:08
Speaker 3: be out of that business essentially, never say never. But
16:15
Speaker 3: when they talk about sustainability and the overall health of
16:17
Speaker 3: the organization, they use the Tucker trade as sort of
16:23
Speaker 3: the counterexample, like that was something they felt that they
16:26
Speaker 3: had to do.
16:26
Speaker 2: It's not something they want to do. Anytime soon.
16:32
Speaker 3: What kind of got me thinking about that was this
16:35
Speaker 3: schoobl and the Tigers. We don't know if they're gonna
16:38
Speaker 3: even trade them. Certainly don't think Scott Boris is gonna
16:43
Speaker 3: recommend a client, a reigning Cy Young Award winning client,
16:49
Speaker 3: to sign a.
16:50
Speaker 2: Long term extension.
16:51
Speaker 3: But like, those type of thoughts in a vacuum would
16:54
Speaker 3: be a really interesting around this Cubs team if we
16:58
Speaker 3: listened to Jeff Ponce and how he was, you know,
17:01
Speaker 3: breaking down the Cubs system in terms of a pitching
17:04
Speaker 3: pipeline like that would be an interesting idea, But it's
17:08
Speaker 3: not even really worth kind of entertaining because the Cubs
17:12
Speaker 3: don't seem to be into another Tucker type of deal
17:14
Speaker 3: anytime soon.
17:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and you know, I think the argument for
17:20
Speaker 1: doing moves like this is looking at some of the
17:23
Speaker 1: results of the trade. It's way too early to make
17:26
Speaker 1: conclusions in my mind about like some of these prospects,
17:29
Speaker 1: but you go look back. The first Domino was acquiring
17:32
Speaker 1: esoc paratus. Christopher Morrell was just df e by the
17:37
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay race hunter, Biggie good, good reliever, like, but
17:42
Speaker 1: you give him up for a guy that's like the
17:44
Speaker 1: Three War third basement with a ton of years you
17:49
Speaker 1: know on their contract, and and Ty Johnson. I'm not
17:53
Speaker 1: sure what Ty Johnson is doing. I don't think he's
17:56
Speaker 1: emerged as a top one hundred prospect or anything like that.
17:59
Speaker 1: I think he's probably a solid prospect. Nothing, You're just
18:03
Speaker 1: like wringing your hands over and losing obviously more given
18:07
Speaker 1: up to get Tucker. But Paradis is now in trade
18:10
Speaker 1: rumors again with with Houston, you know, back and forth,
18:14
Speaker 1: suffering injuries. Perfect really good season, perfect ballpark for him.
18:19
Speaker 1: But that's kind of like Cody Bellinger and the Yankees,
18:21
Speaker 1: Like that makes more sense, Like these are the places
18:23
Speaker 1: where these players like can really build value, Like Estoc
18:27
Speaker 1: Paradis has played in, you know, two really good ballparks
18:31
Speaker 1: for him in Tampa Bay and and Houston Detroit not
18:35
Speaker 1: as good for him when he was there, Like as
18:38
Speaker 1: far as becoming this power guy, he was able to
18:42
Speaker 1: like take advantage of Tampa Bay, He's able to take
18:44
Speaker 1: advantage of Houston. Hyden wasn Eskey, Tommy John Surgery, and
18:49
Speaker 1: now Cameron Smith. Look, I think Cam Smith, I still
18:52
Speaker 1: I still believe in Cam Smith. I think he's going
18:56
Speaker 1: to be a really good player, but they're talking about
19:00
Speaker 1: starting him in Triple A next year. He's not guaranteed
19:03
Speaker 1: a spot. Uh you know, when you say these things
19:05
Speaker 1: out in the public, there's you're like sending a message
19:08
Speaker 1: to a guy. It's interesting. It's a you know, it's
19:11
Speaker 1: interesting to hear. I don't. I don't think I've never
19:14
Speaker 1: heard anything about bad makeup with Cam Smith. If anything,
19:17
Speaker 1: I've heard like great guy, great like works his butt off,
19:21
Speaker 1: super like the right type of confidence that you want
19:24
Speaker 1: to see in a high level athlete. Uh So I
19:28
Speaker 1: still believe that like in a few years, we're gonna
19:31
Speaker 1: look back and say, like, whow, sure Cam Smith would
19:34
Speaker 1: sure look good in the Cubs uniform. But like these
19:37
Speaker 1: things that you just don't know. So it's worth taking
19:40
Speaker 1: the risk every once in a while, like go for it.
19:42
Speaker 1: But I I understand what Carter's point is. If you're
19:45
Speaker 1: doing that every year, that's that's not healthy for the organization.
19:49
Speaker 1: But I do think it's I don't want Cubs fans
19:52
Speaker 1: to look at this and say, never do it again.
19:56
Speaker 1: It you know, you've got to pick and choose your moments.
19:59
Speaker 1: But I you know, if they if they traded for
20:02
Speaker 1: Trek Scoogle this year and then did another one year
20:05
Speaker 1: trade next year. Like that's that's how you like screw
20:08
Speaker 1: up your future pretty badly. But I think one off
20:11
Speaker 1: it's fine, and I think the ultimate goal was get
20:14
Speaker 1: to ninety plus wins and make the playoffs and and
20:17
Speaker 1: set yourself up for a brighter future. I don't know
20:20
Speaker 1: if if not resigning Tucker is gonna bite them in
20:23
Speaker 1: the butt and they're not gonna have a good offensive season,
20:26
Speaker 1: but right like, it also makes sense, like at a
20:28
Speaker 1: certain point you need these kids to play, either trade
20:31
Speaker 1: them or play them. So you can't do everything. You
20:35
Speaker 1: can't have all these guys playing. There were too many
20:38
Speaker 1: spots as it was, or not enough spots as it
20:41
Speaker 1: was at the end of last year. That doesn't mean
20:44
Speaker 1: that the offense won't take a step back, but I
20:46
Speaker 1: think it's probably about time to see what some of
20:49
Speaker 1: these kids can do.
20:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's important to note what you
20:55
Speaker 3: just said there. This doesn't mean the Cubs wouldn't trade
20:58
Speaker 3: for a starting pitcher who came with multiple years of control,
21:02
Speaker 3: or that they're not or that they're unwilling to trade
21:07
Speaker 3: some of these like Triple A Iowa Slash Wrigley adjacent
21:11
Speaker 3: kind of bubble players to give them a runway and
21:15
Speaker 3: maybe get some more impact on the major league side
21:19
Speaker 3: in a different form. But you're right, we're kind of
21:22
Speaker 3: hearing this of what we took as a very straightforward,
21:28
Speaker 3: almost obvious confirmation, like the Cubs are focused on pitching, pitching,
21:33
Speaker 3: and more pitching. That does not mean they won't do
21:38
Speaker 3: anything to their offense at all. But I think whenever
21:44
Speaker 3: Kyle Tucker puts on a new jersey, he'll probably get
21:48
Speaker 3: off to a nice start, particularly he's in like a
21:51
Speaker 3: lineup that has, you know, kind of other pieces to
21:54
Speaker 3: where he can be more of a complimentary hitter of
21:58
Speaker 3: like how do you place that It's I don't think
22:04
Speaker 3: it's gonna be a one for one for one move.
22:06
Speaker 3: It's gonna be difficult, but the guy we saw in
22:11
Speaker 3: the second half of the season would not.
22:14
Speaker 2: Be all that difficult to replace, to be honest.
22:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they were fifth in runs last year. I
22:23
Speaker 1: believe they were like twelfth, Yeah exactly, there were twelfth
22:28
Speaker 1: the year before. If you kind of split the difference there,
22:32
Speaker 1: if you if you're not if you're just like bottom
22:35
Speaker 1: end of the top ten, I think you take that
22:38
Speaker 1: in a heartbeat next year. You know, you what you
22:42
Speaker 1: want to see the Cubs do if you're if you're
22:45
Speaker 1: a Cubs fan. Uh, the way they they need to
22:49
Speaker 1: execute this plan. The way it works is these young
22:52
Speaker 1: guys do well. None of the another, like, none of
22:55
Speaker 1: the guys take huge steps back, like Michael Bush. Maybe
22:59
Speaker 1: Pete well, you know maybe in the power department. Pete
23:02
Speaker 1: isn't a thirty homer guy, but like if he can
23:05
Speaker 1: be similar, maybe take a step forward. And then the
23:10
Speaker 1: rest of the guys, you know, it's mostly like can
23:13
Speaker 1: you expect that from say It? Can you expect that
23:15
Speaker 1: from Carson Kelly? These are the ones where you're like wondering,
23:18
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can get exactly that you
23:21
Speaker 1: want similar value for like overall from those offensive guys,
23:26
Speaker 1: and then like Bias, Arris and Casey to combine to
23:29
Speaker 1: be a solid player. They're not going to give you
23:32
Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker's production, So you take a little bit of
23:34
Speaker 1: a step back. Then in theory, the pitching is where
23:37
Speaker 1: you step forward. You have to hope that Shoda has
23:40
Speaker 1: a better healthy season, Justin Steels returned Kate Horton full season,
23:44
Speaker 1: and whoever they add and then you have to figure
23:47
Speaker 1: out the bullpen. That's always a crapshoot, but those are
23:50
Speaker 1: that's take a step forward with the pitching and a
23:53
Speaker 1: slight step back with the offense, and that's how you
23:56
Speaker 1: become a better team. It's still risky, and I under
24:00
Speaker 1: stand the complaints, and I understand the concern when you're
24:03
Speaker 1: relying on youth and and you just don't know, it's
24:06
Speaker 1: you just don't know what Peka Armstrong is definitely going
24:09
Speaker 1: to be. Like you feel really good and excited about
24:12
Speaker 1: the season he had, but to guarantee that he repeats
24:15
Speaker 1: it like and and that's with the disappointing second half.
24:19
Speaker 1: Like so there there are always these questions. I totally
24:22
Speaker 1: understand why people would be frustrated, but I also understand,
24:25
Speaker 1: like what the Cubs are trying to do here. They're
24:27
Speaker 1: they're trying to find an avenue that just like once
24:30
Speaker 1: you get past Kyle Tucker on the like impact bats. Look,
24:36
Speaker 1: you and I have talked about how awesome it would
24:38
Speaker 1: be for Kyle Schuber to be back here, Like, I
24:40
Speaker 1: think we both enjoy that as as reporters. Uh, I
24:43
Speaker 1: think fans would love that, and I think that he'd
24:46
Speaker 1: be a boon for this team overall. I just don't
24:50
Speaker 1: I don't know if that cost makes sense with the
24:53
Speaker 1: way the Cubs do things a DH you know, like
24:58
Speaker 1: they they're not going to spend all this money on
25:00
Speaker 1: positionless talent. They're just not. So I think I think
25:05
Speaker 1: there are ways to improve this team. I think they've
25:06
Speaker 1: laid out their plans and I think, you know, it
25:09
Speaker 1: makes sense to me, even if it's there's always risk,
25:12
Speaker 1: and I think this comes with a healthy dose, and
25:16
Speaker 1: it's kind of obvious, like what this risk is, Yeah.
25:20
Speaker 2: Better stay healthy too. I mean, they had a pretty remarkable.
25:23
Speaker 3: Run basically outside of Kyle and has to be better,
25:27
Speaker 3: right and the bench has to be better some you know,
25:31
Speaker 3: the kind of complimentary right handed hitter we're talking about,
25:36
Speaker 3: you know, Owen Casey, it's time to see some sort
25:40
Speaker 3: of value from the U Darvius trade. It's not a
25:43
Speaker 3: knock on Casey, just a clear salary don't move. And
25:46
Speaker 3: we're heading into opening day twenty twenty six still have
25:49
Speaker 3: not seen a lot at the major league level yet.
25:52
Speaker 3: Some of that a lot of that out of Owen's
25:54
Speaker 3: control to this point. And you hear the way people
25:57
Speaker 3: talk about Mois's biasteros that he is a special, unique hitter.
26:03
Speaker 3: We saw certainly some flashes of that of him getting
26:06
Speaker 3: more comfortable and adjusting to a higher level has to happen.
26:12
Speaker 3: And yeah, I am curious about you know, is Michael
26:15
Speaker 3: Bush just a guy like that?
26:17
Speaker 2: You know, he was kind of mister October for a while.
26:19
Speaker 3: Can sayah, smooth out some of those inconsistencies. I mean,
26:24
Speaker 3: he had like what like a thirty and one hundred season,
26:26
Speaker 3: It just didn't feel that way because it was so
26:29
Speaker 3: front loaded, But he had some nice moments in the playoffs,
26:34
Speaker 3: Like there have a lot of hitters like in that
26:38
Speaker 3: right peak sort of age range that they're sort of
26:42
Speaker 3: obsessed with.
26:44
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I.
26:46
Speaker 3: Don't just because they could play a game tomorrow with
26:48
Speaker 3: their position player group doesn't mean they should. And that
26:54
Speaker 3: I still think we have to keep in mind here
26:57
Speaker 3: with all of these various permutations, like what are the
27:00
Speaker 3: Cubs like to do, like to hang back a little
27:03
Speaker 3: bit and keep their options open and wait for free
27:06
Speaker 3: agents and teams to get antsy as even into spring training,
27:12
Speaker 3: Like how many spring trainings in a row now has
27:16
Speaker 3: been covering kind of free agency while workouts are going
27:20
Speaker 3: on in Mesa, like on some level or in some
27:24
Speaker 3: area of the club. I think that will still be
27:26
Speaker 3: going on, you know, well passed well into and past
27:31
Speaker 3: Cubs convention and maybe even pitchers and catchers reported.
27:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say we will. We'll see who's available in
27:39
Speaker 1: like the middle of January, and if there are bats,
27:42
Speaker 1: then maybe the Cubs suddenly are interested, you know, like
27:45
Speaker 1: they there they are very you know, opportunity oriented, like
27:50
Speaker 1: we've seen them do this multiple times over the years.
27:53
Speaker 1: So don't rule that type of stuff out. As much
27:57
Speaker 1: as they've laid out their plan. Things change when the
28:01
Speaker 1: market dictates that things need to change. So we'll see
28:04
Speaker 1: what direction they go and what they're like. We know
28:07
Speaker 1: what they're going to be aggressive with early and then
28:12
Speaker 1: my assumption is the lead that there'll be a way
28:15
Speaker 1: for them to be opportunistic if if something you know,
28:20
Speaker 1: pops up in January February, so we'll see, we'll see
28:23
Speaker 1: what that means. All right, thanks so much for listening
28:27
Speaker 1: to everyone. We'll have two episodes next week Thanksgiving week.
28:31
Speaker 1: We will be bugging you for questions, so we'll be
28:34
Speaker 1: doing some mail bags hopefully and hopefully you guys as
28:37
Speaker 1: always deliver and give us some good questions and we'll
28:41
Speaker 1: try and get as much info out there as possible.
28:43
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to everyone. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,
28:46
Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic
28:48
Speaker 1: where Patrick and I are on top of all things cubs.
28:51
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone.
29:00
Speaker 4: The name.
29:02
Speaker 1: And the name I do. They among the leve