Latest / HEEL HAVOC / The Tragic Tale of Ned Leeds: Villain or Victim?
Transcript
- GATOR: Alright, welcome to another episode of the Heel Havoc where we celebrate the villains, the heels, the bad guys of all walks of life. Now, if this is your first time and God it took you long enough to get here, welcome it for the ⁓ and I have a good one for you for the first time. We are gonna be talking about some spider men. Yeah, imagine waking up one day and discovering the world believes you were one of Spider-Man's greatest villains. Except you weren't. You were manipulated, brainwashed, and murdered before you could ever tell your side of the story. That's the tragic story of Ned Leeds. Yes, we are gonna talk about the hobgoblin today. And since we have Spider-Man a brand new day and they have teased some hobgoblin, we got a massive amount of villains coming out in this one. Man, it is all kinds of crazy based on those trailers. But this is one of the biggest twists in Spider-Man history. For years, fans believed Ned Leeds was the hobgoblin. Then Marvel pulled the rug out of under everyone. The real story isn't about a supervillain, it's about manipulation, brainwashing, and one of the most controversial editorial decisions in Spider-Man comics. Because if you know the comic books, which I'll make some references so you can go back, look, find what you're looking for, and like make sure that I did not do my research as well as I said, feel free. So let's first talk about who is Ned Leeds. Before Hobgoblin, Ed was simply a reporter at the Daily Bugle. Now I am talking about the comics, not the movies. ⁓ so Peter Parker's coworker, Betty Bryant's husband. Yes, Betty Bryant is in the new Spider-Man ⁓ movies. So ⁓ he's an ordinary man, caught in extraordinary circumstances. And unlike Peter. Ned had no powers. No super soldier serum. No magical artifact. Although it was teased in The Last Spider Man No Way Home, where he had that little Doctor Strange moment. So I don't know which way they're actually gonna go with this, to be honest. I mean, he wa in the comics, he was simply caught in events bigger than himself. Now You see in the movies versus the comics that they're you don't know which way they're gonna go in this movie. They've only teased the hobgoblin from the looks of things, it's probably gonna set up the hobgoblin as far as the next movie. Maybe the first true standalone Spider Man without all the extras. But Ned, ⁓ in the comics is just a normal guy who was brainwashed and had taken the ⁓ fall for someone else. Yes, we're gonna get to that in a minute, but ⁓ In the movies, he's Peter Parker's best friend. So which direction do you think they're going? They've even dressed Ned up in hobgoblin colors. You can go back, watch the movies, blue and yellow. They have even ⁓ talked about how he promises never to become a super villain and go after him, which that's when he knew who Peter was. You see, I think after ⁓ Peter erased everybody's memory, which was how He got away the last time as nobody knew who he was. But once they did that, Ned got put on a different path altogether. Because no longer is he Spider-Man's best friend. He's just a guy that likes Spider-Man. So I'm curious to see which movie if they're if they're gonna stick to the comics or they're gonna get a little ⁓ crazy and do their own story. We'll see. But ⁓ Hobgoblin was actually introduced as like a Spider-Man two thirty eight back in nineteen eighty three by Roger Stern. And unlike the Green Goblin, the Hobgoblin was intelligent, more calculating, less insane, calm, patient, and strategic. So he wasn't ⁓ motivated by the simplicity of revenge, killing, and taking over the city or world. He was very patient when he came to his things, and even that as far as the cartoons, if you watch those back in the day. And readers spent years trying to guess who was behind the mask, because they kept this a good secret. Instead of relying on insanity, the hobgoblin relied on planning and manipulation. Now Roger Stern, let's point this out, intentionally kept the Hobgoblin's identity a mystery, planting clues for readers to solve. Now I'm gonna get into what his of complete ⁓ reveal was ⁓ ver before other writers took it over and kind of screwed him on it and tried to backtrack. But ⁓ the big reveal for several years, who is Hobgoblin? Suspects were Roderick Kingsley, Richard Fisk, Ned Leeds, and others connected to Spider-Man's world. But the mystery became one of Marvel's hottest stories because nobody knew who he was. Comic reference on this one The Amazing Spider Man number two hundred eighty nine. Marvel revealed that Ned Leeds was hobgoblin. Fans were shocked. Spider Man was shocked, but the reveal was controversial almost immediately because timeline didn't quite add up. Editorial changes behind the scenes led to Ned being selected after the original creative plans changed. Let's rewind that. After the original creative plans had changed. Cause the original, ⁓ even Roger Stern has ⁓ said that Ned was not his intended hobgoblin. Now, this is gonna make the new Spider-Man stor new Spider-Man movie a whole lot interesting because I want to know which way they're gonna go. They're either gonna go comic book storyline or they're gonna make up their own little twisted thing. So I'm curious to see how it's gonna turn out. But After Stern, ⁓ Creative Team took the story in a different directions. Many fans actually did not like this. It was felt the clues no longer lined up. And I could understand that. ⁓ you've been putting all this these years into these comic books, wondering who this guy is, who's the big reveal, just to be told it was Ned. And ⁓ Roger Stern did have plans for that. Now here. Here's the problem. Ned had already been assassinated. Now this was Spider Man vs. Wolverine number one back in nineteen eighty seven. He had already been assassinated overseas before readers even learned he was supposedly hobgoblin. He never got the chance to defend himself. He died believing, or perhaps not even fully understanding what had happened to him. The alleged hobgoblin is dead. Now, here is the true kicker in this. This is the part that if you were a fan, would p okay, I'm gonna say the say the bad word here, piss you off. No confession, no final battle, and no explanation. Now, I don't know if you know this, but a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end. And we did not get an end to the hobgoblin story in the comics. So That being said, was Ned ever really Hobgoblin? Now years later, Hobgoblin Libs back in nineteen ninety seven ⁓ surfaced and they revisit Marvel revisited the mystery. The series reveals the truth. The original Hobgoblin was Roderick Kingsley. Kingsley had Ned brainwashed and used him as a stand in to protect his own identity. Ned wasn't the criminal mastermind. He was a pawn. Now this is where I'm curious how the movie's gonna fit this in or if they are at all. They might just slap Ned as the hobgoblin and let him go. But ⁓ I'm curious to see if they try to get in a little bit of the Kingsley where he brainwashed him, trained him. Dressed him as Hobgoblin, used him as a creepy decoy. So basically, whenever Kingsley needed an alibi, Ned became Hobgoblin. Troten moved around, battled Spider-Man, all that good stuff. But when Ned became inconvenient, Kingsley abandoned him. And that's a completely different story. Now, in my opinion, the biggest clue that Roderick Kingsley ⁓ was In fact, Hobgoblin came whenever Hobgoblin found one of Norman Osborne's hidden laboratories and recovers goblin formula, weapons, and the glider, as well as pumpkin bombs. So unlike many suspects, Kingsley had wealth, resources, and a criminal connections to investigate and exploit Osborne's legacy. So you're talking about like is I was like, he has all the connections. That was the biggest clue to me on who he was, but y'all make y'all's own decisions. So now that we know Ned in the comics was brainwashed and taught to be or basically was a stand in so other guy can do his criminal activities and just never have it lead back to him. So knowing that, is Ned really the villain? I mean, if someone brainwashed you into committing crimes, are they a villain or a victim? So if that happened to Ned, where would you place him? As a bad guy because he did dress up as hoggoblin? And do bad things? Or a victim because he was brainwashed to think he is. So ⁓ now in the comics we know Roderick Kingsley is the real villain. He wasn't just hiding, he was weaponized another man's life. He manipulated Te Ned, framed him, let him take the blame, escape justice. I mean, come on, that's arguably more evil than anything Hobgoblin ever did. He committed the ultimate betrayal. Like he stole Ned's identity, his reputation, and his future. And after Ned died, Kingsley just simply disappeared. That's cold. No matter who you are, that's cold. So in the comics you see Spider Man spent years chasing the wrong hobgoblin. The real villain was hiding behind someone else's face. Wow. I mean that seems like a whole bunch of wasted time reading all that, and as a fan, I would ⁓ Disappointed as well. I think it was a crappy ending. Now I'm curious. This is where you got Spider Man brand new day. Now we know we got Ned. Ned doesn't remember him, but he's gonna be reintroduced to Peter. But is this where Ned starts going down that path after Spider Man doesn't do something or he gets so obsessed with him? Now are they gonna correct their mistake in the comics? About making Ned Hobgoblin, or are they going to actually fix everything and make it Kingsley? That's where I'm curious to see where they go. They're gonna go on this because it's only been teased. It hadn't been anything major on this. So now also let's talk about Betty Brandt. I mean, it's the saddest part of her story. She loses her husband, the truth, and her future. She believes Ned was secretly a supervillain. Imagine finding out later he was manipulated all along. I mean, come on. I mean, I know it's a s it's a tragedy and sad part of it, but yeah, she got screwed over more than anybody else, in my opinion. So let's examine the psychological angle. Ned represents lost identity. Now, unlike villains like Joker, Doctor Doom, Ned never chooses darkness. This is where It gets ⁓ kind of hazy and weird because Ned never chooses darkness. So could you say he's a villain, or is it just craziness or mistaken identity? Is it just a bad dream to him? His identity is actually taken from him. His name, reputation, his marriage, everything we've discussed so far, even his legacy. And that's horrifying because everything he was real was destroyed. By one simple thing. Everybody thinking him he's Hopka. So Ned's story really isn't about becoming evil. It's about losing control. With his identity erased, his actions in general were manipulated, and his legacy was rewritten. Sometimes the greatest tragedy isn't becoming the villain, it's having history remember you as one. And that's the true tragedy of Ned. Because he wasn't a supervillain, but everybody thought he was. So let's compare Hobgoblin. The original green gap. Green Goblin was motivated by literally come becoming insane, multiple personality, and I am talking about the movies as well. I was like, ⁓ craziness, just bloodthirsty wanting to take over everything. That's motivation. Doc Ock chooses revenge. He wants to believe he was right. He wants validation. Another motive. Venom chooses hatred, and I'm w I'm kind of hoping they're gonna squeeze some venom in this one. Just just a little tad bit. I would I would love it if they did. A brand new day like that. I would love it. So but Ned he never really chooses. To be honest, I mean it's kind of like if he's just having a bad dream and he wakes up and goes live his normal life. I mean, that's the true tragedy. I mean, he's not a villain. To him, he's probably just drink thinks it's a a dream he's having. And he wakes up, goes, does his normal it's my everyday life thing. So why this story matters? The hobgoblin mystery became one of Spider-Man's longest running plot lines. That says a lot. That means this people were vested in this, but also remembered because behind the scenes editorial changes that altered the intended reveal. Many fans' creators have since pointed to Roderick Kingsley as a character originally envisioned as the true hobgoblin. So people themselves were wanting to correct us. So are they gonna correct it in the movie or are they gonna stick with Ned being hobgoblin? Let me know in the comments. Let me know. Shoot me a message. I'm curious what y'all think. If it's gonna go that way or another one. So and also, who in this story is the real villain? Is it Ned Leeds? Because he does do the hobgoblin things. Roderick Kingsley? For brainwashing Ned, be making Ned do all these things. Or Marvel editorial. So in all of this that's going on with Ned going and now they've been teasing this in almost everything. So now that you got some serious reading to do, if you want to ⁓ tackle into some of these comics, let me tell you, it was Amazing Spider Man two thirty eight, two forty nine through two fifty one, two eighty nine, Spider Man versus Wolverine number one, and Hoggoblin Libs one to three. Feel free to read that, have fun with it. I know I did, but the when we go into the movie, now we know we got Frank Castle, we know we got Hulk, we got Scorpion coming out, and we got a couple extra villains in there. Now, and they have teased. I know everybody saw that little flash of the Hobgoblin outfit, but who is wearing it? I'm hoping Marvel corrects their mistake, but we have not had a single character introduced so far in the first three movies named Roderick Kingsley. Unless they're gonna say that that's Flash's real name. Just throwing it out there, ⁓ Could happen. Maybe that's Flash's real name. And Flash is Roderick. Probably not, but I'm curious to see where it goes, if they're gonna correct it or if they're just gonna sweep it under the rug and have fun with it. Now, my verdict as heel havoc. I always like to talk about the villains. Was Ned Leeds a villain? No. He was just a dumb pawn who got brainwashed and convinced to do all these things. He may have worn the mask and under brainwashing acted as hobgoblin at times. But the evidence ultimately points to him being a manipulated stand in rather than the mastermind. The true architect behind Hobgoblin's identity was Roderick Kingsley, who used Ned as a disposable scapegoat. So Like I said, I don't know where Marvel is gonna go with this movie and if they're gonna correct things, make it work, make it happen. But one thing I do know is it's gonna be interesting and you're gonna have people upset either way. If they make Ned Hobgoblin or if they introduce someone as Roger Kingsley and it just makes everything happen. Maybe Ned gets kidnapped at the end of the movie and starts brainwashing. But I don't know. In my opinion, Ned was never the villain. He was just some guy dreaming of being hobgombling that woke up and went to his normal life. So ⁓ I know this is a short one. I had to squeeze it in real quick, but we're gonna shut it down. But I'm gonna leave you with this little tidbit of information. Not every man wearing the villain's mask is a villain. Sometimes the greatest evil isn't pulling the trigger. It's convincing someone else to take the blame. Ned Leeds didn't become the hobgoblin. He became the The perfect scapegoat. So that's where we're gonna leave you this week. I hope ⁓ like y'all are gonna get your tickets to go see the next Spider-Man brand new day. I am psyched about it. I can't wait for that one. Can't wait for a lot of things going on. But have fun with it. I was like, we are gonna ⁓ next once we ⁓ watch or once I watch it, I'm gonna give an honest review. If you don't follow me on YouTube, TikTok, come on, heal havoc. Find it, follow, like, subscribe. We're gonna get some things going. So in closing, always tune in, like, follow, and subscribe, 'cause he'll have it. It's good to be bad.