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5 Essential Lessons from a Lifetime of Service in NYC · Hart & Hustle Podcast

• Efrain: We are back here with the Heart and Hustle Podcast. We got Mr Kevin in the house. Your background looks very sunny and beautiful. Mine's is very rainy and just gloomy. Where are you at in the R U S? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I'm sitting here in midtown Manhattan, New York City. Efrain: Love it, man. I think a lot of people love New York City. Were you born and raised in New York City or did you just have this love like everybody else to move to New York? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I was sort of city adjacent. I grew up in New Haven, Connecticut, and the point of focus from New Haven, Connecticut tends to be New York City. I our our news channel at night was, you know, New York City news. If you had any kind of special occasion you took the train into New York and and then when I met You know, I met who was gonna become my wife. She was originally from Queens, New York, and it all just kinda rolled in this direction and I do love it. It's a it's an acquired taste for some, but it definitely is, you know, something that I feel where I belong. Efrain: Love it, man. And how how many years have you been married now? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: it has been thirty three years. Efrain: Thirty th that's almost as long as I've been born, Kevin. What is you know, I always love to ask the men, what is a secret sauce, man? They always tell me there's no secret sauce. They always give me some explanation, but what what is what is yours? What do think w kept you guys together thirty three years? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: You know, it it's it's a great question. I it it it's never felt too difficult. Like there's an ease in connection and y when I even say the number thirty-three, I'm like, really? I'm like, yeah, I guess if I do the math it's thirty-three. But like it's not one of these situations where I don't know, time kinda went slow or we hit you know, like w we have our moments, but like it it never it never kinda came around to being like this schlag or when people make this idea, your bone chain and all that stuff kind of stuff, I can laugh at it, but it never really felt like it applied to me. Like it's always just been like she's cool. I mean, I don't Efrain: It's your soulmate, man. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, it's no it's not stressful. It's not a stressful relationship. It's a it really isn't. You know, we've experienced tough Efrain: That's a good one, man. That's a good one. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: things but it's not, you know, kids and family and all that, but it's not. It just seems to flow. So Efrain: I love it. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I'm sticking with it, not not asking too too many questions, not analysing it too hard, just enjoying it. Efrain: That's what we gotta do as men sometimes. It's not ask too many questions. Kevin, I love it. and what's the organization that you represent in today, man? And what is your title with them? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I'm the executive director at Counseling and Schools, nonprofit here in New York City. Efrain: And what brings you to an organization like this where it's truly about just helping someone else? It's about pouring into an another human, making sure that they get seen, may get the help that is needed. What gets you into this space? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I mean I think it's it's really, you know, in some ways when I reflect on sort of my my childhood, which was, you know, fairly privileged you can say, but but not extraordinary in any way, and feel fell it just sort of feels like, you know, I I can get into how I got connected to the idea of service, but at the same time it just sort of felt like, you know, the things that are the things that were available to me are not extraordinary, should be available to everybody. Like it's not you know, like, you know, public schools and all that stuff that I went to, whatever like it just but the opportunities like from education should be there. And you see, you know, certain communities where, you know, like people are starting way behind. And it just doesn't like it doesn't make it d in some ways it's anathema to me. It doesn't make a lot of sense. It's like what? Like we've got to do something because these are young people and you give people opportunities and you find out a little bit more about them and you watch this, you know, growth happen and people just move into the space that you make available. And and that's kind of been a driving force for me in a lot of ways. Efrain: And you started this years ago as a counselor, is that correct? So this is like you already knew Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I started at in Efrain: this was kind of your thing. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I mean I you know, when I graduated from Boston Univers I went to Boston University and graduated in nineteen eighty six with a degree in sociology. And at that point, I was really, you know, up in my head, I guess you could say a lot about like thinking about the society and the world and you know, justice ideas ab around that. And and I had a professor my senior year who challenged me to, you know, redirect myself from academia into the world of people and it brought me into working in a shelter for homeless people. And at the time I was thinking like, okay, I'll do this for a minute. Like it'll be fine. It'll be a very kind of, you know, heart feel good kind of work. But but I'm not, you know, I'm gonna need to get back to my thought processes. And I was just blown away by how much that marriage was present between how much you needed to be thoughtful and and, you know, continuing to push yourself intellectually while also finding a way to make these heart connections. And that really was the beginning of a service you know, a service experience for me, which ultimately in nineteen ninety-three, when my wife and I had spent a year living in Mexico, learning Spanish, she's a teacher. We wanted to kind of find a way to further connect in communities that we wanted to serve and came into New York City. There was this job available at counseling in schools as a counselor. she was she was a teacher and Had been a teacher before, left the city, came back to got a teaching job. And at first it was kind of like, yeah, I'll do that. It connects. Our our schedules will align, it'll be cool. but really like it just became more and more and more to me. And and again, back to just sort of seeing this potential in young people, the opportunities that they once once things sort of opened up, what they would move into, right? And our You know, our our tagline here Counseling and Schools is awakening possibilities. And I think that's kind of where that comes from. Like it just, you know, and it's not about giving somebody something, it's about opening something up and you see people go to sort of what's theirs, like what what they have the ability to do, what they're motivated to do, and you see this growth, and it's just, you know, it's a benefit to everybody to to be involved Efrain: Y Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: in that. Efrain: you talk about this giving heart and sometimes I think we expect a lot of people to just have it. But it's something that's instilled in us probably since young kids. Do you recall how that got instilled in you? Just that giving and that wanting to help others? Was this mom and dad kinda pouring into you? Was this school teachers pouring into you? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I think it was, you know, definitely, you know, the dynamic in my family. I my family was very, very connected to the local Catholic parish that I grew up in. And I think just, you know, basic values of of of Catholicism, you know, was really was really like part of the teaching that just made a lot of sense to me. It was kind of like, you know, this kind of humble willingness to sort of, you know, understand and and be a part of you know, something that was making a contribution. I mean the the worth ethic in my family was really about if you want something from society, you have to give something to society. So you don't, you know, you can you can have expectations, but n none of them beyond what it is you're willing to do yourself. And I think that that really, you know, those two elements between just sort of this idea of, you know, our obligation is to sort of help our fellow man at the same time that Hey, if I want something in this world, I gotta be able to put something in. That seemed to be the right area for me to try to look at. Efrain: Love it. And then you always think like executive director role or is this something that just kind of fell at the table? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, in no way, shape or form was I think an executive director role when I started this. Like I was just in it and you know, again, it's back to this sort of experience that I had of really being able to fill my brain and and and really just continue to be curious and interested and and see like wanting to learn more and know more and be more impactful and kind of go further upstream, like working with the young people that I was working with was really like gave me a lot and and you you see a lot of patterns, right? You see a lot of things that are kind of repeating and it's like, well wait a minute, what w what what happens further up? Like where are the policies being made and where are the decisions and how is the organization being structured and who's staying and who's going and and as opportunities came, I mean I had an I had a mentor who was the founder of the organization who, you know, again, she was opening doors for me without me even really realizing it, really. It's Efrain: Mm. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: really when I look back on it. And when I saw something that was needed, I would go to it and say, Hey, I want to do this. She'd say, Go for it. And each time along the way, you know, I would learn something more about, you know, budgets or about hiring practices or HR stuff, like all these different things that were not a part of my social work, you know, education. And but were a part of like what needed to happen in any one moment for this organization to still exist. And this is actually the fortieth year of the organization, and I've been a part of it. 33 of those. So the organization was seven years old when I got there. and so yeah, there was a lot of opportunity for growth. So part of it was right place at the right time. Efrain: W when did you, I guess, notice that you were ready for the role? Or did you take the role not even knowing you were actually ready for it? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I had I I I think I did I did feel ready for it in two thousand twelve, when the the founder, you know, retired stepped down and the board of directors, you know, thought I was in a good position. 'Cause for about let's say about six years I was in a role called managing director. So like I really had been sort of seeing things and while again the founder was really somebody who I have great respect for, you I could really see the limitations. Like there is a real a reality of something, you know, people refer to as founder syndrome. And, you know, or people like create something. It's hard for them to let go of some pieces or see beyond what they started with. And the organization, like I could see where the growth points needed to happen and where some of the limitations were. and it was really at the point at which, you know, she I think recognized that too and said, okay, I'm going to step down that I was able to say, like, okay, I'm going to move into this space and here are some of the things that I want to try to make happen. Efrain: Yeah. I feel like I'm in that place right now, Kevin, actually. I think I told you running this organization where I had I didn't realize some of these people were founders in nineteen ninety of this organization and still kind of been a a role in twenty twenty six. And when I had these ideas, they were like, No, that's not that's not the way. That's not what we've done. And I'm like, Yeah, but what we've done, it it wasn't working. Like and we just had an event on Friday where we just kind of blew it out the water and and I'm hoping now that they get to see like, hey man, this is no joke. Like I've sat here And played the sideline role very f for a very long time, purred all the things going around and now it's really time to execute. How does that look like when you take over that role and you really having to execute knowing that if this doesn't go well, I look bad. Did you have those feelings? Or did you know like, no, I I got this? Like how did that how are you feeling? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I mean I definitely had, you know, that that sense of like, okay, like it's put up or shut up time, right? Like, you know, I've had these ideas and I've thought like, if this person did this or that, that either and now it's like, All right, smart guy, let's see what you got. part of what really, you know, I continue to rely on was that there were a few people around me Who I you know I knew completely supported me and we were gonna do it together. So it wasn't, you know, I I was gonna be at the front of the ship, but I was not alone. and there are still people here who were here at that time who, you know, just were in a great position to sort of be, you know, someone referred to it once that that like you need to have a kitchen cabinet, they called it. Like you need to have those people that you go to and you're like, hey, I'm thinking this, I'm seeing that. Like Let's talk about it and you know, let's make the help me make the best decision I can with these things. And there were risks. You know, there were risks I I had to take and and they paid off. But again, I I didn't feel like I didn't have the support of colleagues, and ultimately the board of directors who, you know, appointed me to the role at the time. and I think they also appreciated that there was more that needed to happen to your point. Like it's not like the organization wasn't working, but it was clearly not growing and there was there was gonna be some cliffs coming based on the way it was working. It was really moving slowly and you know, we had about, I don't know, eighteen or nineteen schools. We're we're up to around seventy or so now. and so it was just, you know, in in different ways of getting into that. and different staff, right? We probably had about sixty staff when I started and now we have about two hundred something. And so, you know, i in and being able to sort of f find the pipelines for those folks and have them really find, you know, bring them into the heart and soul of what the organization is, the integrity that is needed to do this work. and kind of the philosophy and approach. Like that's like creating that dynamic internally. You know, I think is something that I feel proud of because it really is really is a different feel of the organization from where it was 14 years ago. Efrain: To your leadership, man, I so it I can imagine it's everything that you've learned along the journey that you poured back into that moment when you received it. What leadership skills do you appreciate that you have? Because every leader's a little different. You know, when you come to the table, you gotta bring that leadership skill, make sure that you make almost everyone in that organization feel seen, feel loved, feel like not feel like you care, you do care. You got to show that. the empathy. What are some of the qualities as a leader that you just pride yourself in? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I mean I think two things, I think, you know, well, a few things actually. I you know, being trained as a social worker and a counselor and a clinical social worker, like I learned how to listen. and I learned how to sort of connect with people so that when they're talking to me, they know that I'm really hearing them and then what they're saying I'm I'm doing something with, right? it's not you know, I'm not just kinda nodding, shaking hands and moving on like like And I and the other thing is, you know, just a little thing, but you know, I remember people's names. I remember like I know part of it's the benefit from being here so long, but I know the history. And so when someone's going into a school, maybe we've had some turnover, like I know the history of that school and our organization in that school, and I know people, you know, I'm out in the field. And you know, people recognize me and they see me and I think that increases a sense of credibility. But I'm not like so the other trait then really is humility. Like I I think to be an effective leader, you know, in this space anyway, like I think you need to know what you know and be open to hearing from people what you don't know and then try to like, okay, let me think about that. And not just, you know, I don't walk into spaces saying like, Look, I've done this for a long time. I know what I'm doing. Just listen to me and you're gonna get it right. Right. Like, no, that's not like that does not get you where you need to be, right? It's more like I could Efrain: That does it, that doesn't. Gotta put it in the work. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: see it and I have to just hold my tongue and wait and then find the opportunity, okay, how do we help this person grow and maybe think like, you know, it's been a minute. Let me see where they take this. Maybe they're gonna go somewhere I didn't even know it could go yet. And I think that That piece for some people that are at sort of an upper level in the organization now is responsible for our growth because like like me, like I said before, I was given the opportunity to take risks. I give people the opportunity to take risks. Like I say to people all the time, like, you know, don't like you don't have to you don't have to stop when you see something that needs to be done. Like you can make sure, you know, talk get all the information you need. If it goes left. I got your back because you tell me you got all the information you had. This is what you were thinking, this is what you were going about. Don't be impulsive, be thoughtful. But if you see it and it's not time, just do it. And then we'll come back and we'll see what we need to do to kind of, you know, move things forward. And, you know, I I I think people appreciate that, having that freedom and then knowing that, you know, and a few things haven't gone always the best way. Like I'm not coming at them afterwards, like, how could you, what did you, blah, blah, blah. It's like, all right, like we're in a human service field. It's not laid out. There's no algorithm that gets it right every time, right? Like best intentions, all the integrity you've got, all the information you could have gathered, you made that decision. Turned out to not work. Let's pivot and figure out what comes next. Efrain: I was about to say that's that's it right there. Don't panic, you gotta pivot. You gotta you know, just think outside the box a little bit. And I think we're in a space right now, I don't know if you guys are kind of feeling it, but at the government level, so many leaders having to truly pivot. Are you guys finding yourself in that pivot mode or were you guys already kind of put together so you didn't have to think about the loss of of funds? Where were you guys at in that direction? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I mean I think it's interesting here in New York City. Like, you know, the the government the federal funding shortfalls in the in the Department of Education have largely been addressed by the state legislature at this point. Like it's not sustainable forever. But one of the things, you know, that I mean the the the scope and magnitude of challenges here in New York City is tremendous, but also the scope and magnitude of resources is tremendous, right? You know, the the biggest pivot we had to make was was during COVID, like everybody else. But that was a real challenge to stay connected to children and communities and families with the work that we were doing within so much you know, w all the isolation and and all the fear. I mean, like like most places, right, we had, you know, trucks pulled up as morgues in front of hospitals and like, you know, it was intense and people were losing, you know, grandparents and parents and siblings and It was a lot to try to do from a distance and and being able to pivot to that was dramatic, but we did it. And I and I think that gave us a fair amount of confidence, you know, in in what we how we could move and handle things. But from a funding perspective, you know, it really is staying connected like and and I think one of the one of the attributes that has been useful to this organization has been my longevity as in the organization. Like I said, I have a lot of relationships in the city. and, you know, it it just doesn't take much for like we'll get an I'll get an outreach from someone saying, hey, like, there's a situation going on over there. Can you help out? And, you know, a lot of times there's not even any funding attached to it, but they know we have this group of really behavioral health specialists or people sp and I'll be like, fine, we'll go, you know, it's a death or unfortunately a murder or a f house fire or something. we get involved a little bit and you know the city appreciates that. So then when you have other things that the city needs you to do and we step up and put our application in, they're like, yeah, we know them, like they can do this. and so it's kept us, you know, it's kept us going pretty well right now. Efrain: And looking at a lot of the different things, I mean you guys really work with a multitude of of services here, counseling, after school services, art therapy, C youth development. This is what it looks like to c go into the schools and provide multiple services at an at a certain school, or is one school s something certain? What does that look like for you guys and your services? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I mean it really each each school can be a little bit different depending on, you know, what the what the needs are there and then what the available funding is. There are some schools that have we do absolutely everything that you just mentioned. and then there are some schools where we're in a very narrow space with them. Like it might just be, you know, we're doing some training around their guidance staff to address a particular cohort of students that they don't quite understand how to connect to. other spaces where we're really focusing on attendance improvement, right? And we might not even really bring a lot of social workers into that space. We're we're working with what we call sort of near peer mentors or peer adjacent mentors to like people that need to have the understanding to like literally find people out in the community and understand and and make a relationship to try to understand like where are people at, what's interfering in their connection to education and how can we address that going Forward and so that's really the youth development space. and absenteeism and chronic absenteeism is a is a huge issue. We're actually we do an annual conference, and our theme for the conference this year is is addressing absenteeism, just just to kind of looking at like this disconnect of young people to the education process, which has always kind of been flirting with it, but it's really hitting a epidemic proportion. Efrain: Great levels are you guys reaching? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: K to twelve. Efrain: Okay. So from the beginning of times to their senior years. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah. Yeah. Efrain: Yeah, I the absentee, I'm actually one of the things I was looking at the the high school is exactly that. That's an issue. What what causes those issues? Is it just factors at home? Is it students just not wanting to be involved, especially at the high school level? Where do you guys see that the the need is? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, it I mean it's really it it's it's really varying. One of the things that we've done in one of our high schools is that we were actually able to do a survey of every single student in the school, whether they were regularly present or regularly absent and just sort of getting some feedback from them and you know, and it and there it's really arranged. Like you have to the but the key to it really though is who can really build a relationship with that student or the and or that student's family. Like Who has what that student can relate to? When when in in high school that becomes even more important, right? The the younger grades is a little bit more with the family involved because the student's not as independent once the child is independent and the young person's independent. You know, one of the one of the questions that we ask ourselves, it's like, okay, if you're absent in school, you're present to something. Like, what are you present to? And what is that about? And how does that How do we make a bridge from what you're present to when you're not in school to what you would be present to in school? And how do we sort of balance those things, right? Some y some young people are present to their family members who might be ill or might have other things, or they might be present to, you know, just being wanting to get sort of distracted. So they're like playing video games and just hanging out, or they're present to like their own identity about like, you know, who am I in this neighborhood and How am I going to be seen? And I need to sort of, you know, be out there to protect who I am and in and my image. and so like, what are those factors that then we can translate or try to draw a bridge to inside of the institution of the of the school, which can be, you know, challenging but not impossible. And and it takes a whole school approach. I mean, I think that's one thing that you know, I I'd love people to sort of take away or think about, like when you're when you're thinking about the detachment of young people in education and how to get them back, it really isn't one segment of the school that has to ask that question. It really is everybody in the school. Because it's not enough like we can probably do something to bring a young person back into the building one or two days, but depending on what's going on in that building, they may just repeat it all over again. Right. So you have to have a a a very intentional transition when someone comes back from having been out. What is what is that experience and how is everybody prepared to sort of work with that and and and communicate together to understand the plan, but work with those young people on what needs to happen for them to stay engaged. Efrain: How many individuals you guys see on a yearly basis? It seems like with all these schools, you you mentioned over two hundred employees that it it could mean a lot of people being seen and and helped, is that correct? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, yeah. Last year we were we were just shy of seven thousand students that were in our programs and had about four thousand family members who were regularly engaged in in services for the organization and Efrain: How do you c communicate at that large? Like is there a specific platform, email, text messaging? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: I mean it like I said, it's really it's like seventy schools. It's like, you know, we have a yeah, we have a data collection platform so people, you know, are are in in indicating the work that they're doing and the frequency that they're working, what their interventions are, like what the you know, what what what's happening in the spaces. So we have these service inventories and we have a platform that we use to sort of see what's happening and and our structure of our programs is, you know, every counselor in a school has a clinical supervisor. And every school has a program manager. So there are people there creating structure around the program. So the clinical supervisor can work with that individual counselor around any clinical issues, obviously, but also is available to the school for situations that might come up that might not have anything to do with who's on our caseload. And then the program manager is there to kind of continue to look at like what is our work scope? What is our work plan? What do we need? Do we have what we need? You know, working in schools. One of the b one of issues that always comes up is space, right? Like, you know, so what's the space in which we're we're providing the service? Is it adequate for what we need? Understanding how do we work cooperatively with the with the other providers in the building to sort of get across what we need to do, what supplies do we need. And again, like what's that work scope? It might shift and change. We might start with attendance and then it might move over into something else where it might become, you know, like we're creating a peer program for you know, restorative practices or for some kind of conflict resolution program that might be really we get to the idea of the attendance is dipping because there are these sort of cliques within the school that are like fighting factions, right? And this group is like dominating this other group. So these kids aren't gonna come because they don't want to come to school and fight. So Efrain: Yeah. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: how do we create like we now we might shift to do something else to sort of work with those young people around, okay, what are these conflicts about? How do we get through this together? Efrain: After thirty three years, what are you most proud of, man? What are some of those accomplishments that you just will walk away and say, I did it. These are the things that I've implemented. Do you anything coming to mind? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: yeah, I mean, you know, still being in it, like I sort of feel like, you know, that that line of like, you know, like I I'll I'll I'll tell you when it's all over. I'm still in the thick of it. But you know, I I do think like I'm proud of, you know, the people in the organ I'm proud of the fact that there are people who've had career paths within this organization. Obviously I have, but it's been opened up for some people to really be here. You know, I've watched people who've who do amazing work, you know, who who are strong contributors to the direction and the success of what we do are available for when we're challenged. And I see, you know, the children born, children through high school, children through col you know, through college, and like just being a part of the ecosystem of an organization for as long as I have, and seeing people's lives being able to be, you know, just sort of carried through in this space. I mean that feels really good. Like I You know, and and I think if I if there's any role I've played in sort of setting the conditions for those things to happen, I I feel proud of that. It's not mine alone, it's ours together, but it but it feels really good. Efrain: You guys plant the seeds, water seeds, and continue to fertilize the future, I would say. A story comes to mind when you think about someone that went through the organization and really got to see the other side, and probably wouldn't have if it wasn't for some of your individuals kind of navigating them through life. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: You know, there's one individual who was a a s actually a student in one of our schools, who was a chronically absent student. And through some of the amazing work of our staff and our team there, you know, he he found he found like what his we we found together like what it was he needed. And you know, one of our one of our things, you know, that w that we talk about is always like know, not defining the young person by their challenges, but but looking to engage them on, you know, what their what their strength is, what they're good at, what they want to become. And I think we did that exceptionally well with this young man. And, you know, he graduated, came through, eventually, you know, was in community college and applied for a job and and went to work at as one of these sort of near peer mentors in one of our organizations, one of our schools, and like excelled in that. Got his know, bachelor's degree, and just last year, applied and and d and determined that like he wants to be a nurse. And he applied to nursing school, got in, you know, had to leave us for for that, but he's come back and he's done a few like speaking engagements with some young people, whatever. But like this is a young man who's now in his late twenties, you know, who like that crack was just this big. the crack was waiting Efrain: Mm-hmm. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: for him to fall through and who who might have noticed or not noticed. not only did he not fall through the crack, right, he came through, he's contributed to to the places where he went, where he lived, and now he's going to contribute even more in the healthcare industry and he's an exceptional young man and and, you know, i i it's just a it's a Efrain: Love it. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: wonderful story. Efrain: That's what fills a cup, man. When you get to see someone see the other side. We we as the work that we do, it's all about helping someone else see the other side. Looks like he was able to see the other side. Kevin, I wanna be your accountability partner. I can imagine as you put together a plan here for the next three, five years. What are those things that you're trying to accomplish in the next three or five years? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: You know, I think as we continue to sort of gather more data that helps us refine the services that we're doing, right? That's sort of a given that's like always there. But I think there will be continued learnings for us, and I'm anxious for us to continue to get more sophisticated in how we're measuring the impact of our services. I think that's one piece. I think the other piece is I really want to continue to find the the resources to further support the staff. It's always a challenge to keep up with, you know, cost of living that that's as we've all experienced these changes in these last several years and months, to be able to have salaries, keep up with that, to be able to contribute more. We we do contribute significantly to health insurance, but really wanting to do more of that, more of a 401k, those those things that continue to create the organization to be a place where people can really, you know, settle in and feel like, you know, they've got a they've got a career path here. And so those other elements are are difficult when in in the grant based world that we live in. but that's definitely where my sights are focused. Efrain: Love it. And where can people find more information about what you guys are doing at counseling in schools? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: counselingandschools.org is the website. you know, you'll see on there right now if you go on there, I mentioned this conference March 4th and 5th. March 4th will be here in New York City at the School of Visual Arts, where we've held the conference for the last two years. And then on the fifth, it's going to be a virtual conference and we're gonna have really a national conversation with some you really some people who are looking at absenteeism and some of the conversation we just had about like, you know, what's causing it, what do you do, how do you approach it. we're really gonna want to sort of pick the four corners of the map of of the of the US to see like what are the best thoughts around this and how can we kind of get at it. So you know you you'll see the save the date up on the up on the website. There's a place to pre-register and we'd love to have anybody listening to you know also engage with us in that conversation. Our conference we call Collaboration in Action and Our experiences really are intended to be collaborative. It's it's we're we're we we bring something to the table, but we know that the people who join us have something to bring too, and we make space for that. Efrain: And if you just leave the audience, some of the people listening are probably colleagues that are in the space of sometimes doubt of what's happening at a national level, panicking a little bit. What do you tell those individuals that may be on the fence? Am I doing the right thing? Kind of maybe forgetting to why? Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: Yeah, I mean making that time to reflect on your why I think is is certainly, you know, I think w a worthwhile time spent. you know, and I think it's always good to sort of look at what the what it is that's bothering you, what what feels like it's a problem, and see how you can reframe it as a possibility. So one of the things that we o we want to look at is is we want to ask ourselves this question of like what do I want to see more of? It's really part of positive psychology. But you can look at saying, like, you know, we don't have this, we don't have that, the government's doing this, the government's doing that. But if you ask yourself, well, what can I do more of right now? because you know, that persistence matters, like being present matters. That's part of our absenteeism pitch too, but being present to the work, Efrain: Ha ha ha. Kevin Dahill-Fuchel: right? And and it's it's it it it's certainly as needed now as it's ever been. So whatever it is that you're doing that might feel challenging, see how you can reframe that as an opportunity and and you know stick with it. I I I I just think you know you it'll it'll work. I I I still do believe that, you know, you do get out what you put in. If you stop putting in at some point it's going to be harder to get get something out that feels good to you. So stick with it. Efrain: Amen. Wisdom from a great leader. Kevin, we thank you so much, man, for being here, having this conversation with us. Authentically, you always say so important. For those of you still watching, make sure that you guys do like, subscribe, and comment. I'm Efrain. This is the man Kevin. We'll catch you guys on the next one. Laters.