Latest / Pod Save America / How Dems Can Defeat MAGA Once and For All

Transcript

How Dems Can Defeat MAGA Once and For All · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's presenting sponsor is SimpliSafe Home Security. Every night it's
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: the same routine. Doom scroll, lock up, stare at the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: ceiling thinking about all the ways the world can go wrong.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: The one place you do not want chaos is in
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: your house. That's why you need SimpliSafe to keep your
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: home and family safe.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Old school security is like Congress. Lots of noise after
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: something bad happens. SimpliSafe is proactive. Their active guard outdoor
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: monitoring uses AI and real people to watch for problems
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: outside your home in real time.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: If somebody's lurking around, agents can see it. Talk to
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the camera and call the cops if they need to.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: So SimpliSafe stops crimes before they start. I set up
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: a SimpliSafe system. It's incredibly easy to set up and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: it gives you peace of mind when you're away. The
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: monitoring was really reliable. The customer support was great. And
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: it's good to protect your home. And, you know, I
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: recommend it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You're covered inside and out. Cameras and monitoring outside, sensors
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and 24-7 protection inside. They've been protecting 5 million Americans
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: for over 20 years. And U.S. News & World Report
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: has named them best home security system five years in
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a row.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: No long-term contracts, no nonsense. Get 50% off any new
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: system at simplysafe.com slash crooked. That's simplysafe.com slash crooked. There's
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: no safe like Simply Safe.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Back when
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I worked for Barack Obama on his campaigns in the
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: White House, whenever we faced a political crisis, when things
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: felt like they were falling apart all around us, President
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: Obama would call a strategy meeting. They would last all day.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they were at his house. Sometimes they were at
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: a nearby office. But every single time, they would last
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: hours and hours. We'd get the whole gang together to
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: try to figure out what went wrong and how we
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: could fix it. We didn't answer every question, but we
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: always left the meeting with a plan. The conversations around
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: the table focused my mind and made me smarter. And
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: even as I have celebrated Democratic victories and touted Trump's
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: declining poll numbers in recent weeks, I have had the
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: sinking suspicion that too many people in my party are
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: whistling past the graveyard. Trump's blunders are masking the political
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: crisis the Democratic Party is in. To figure out how
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: to get out of it, I wanted to have one
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: of those strategic conversations like the ones I used to
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: have in the Obama days. And there was no better
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: person to have that conversation with than David Plouffe. He
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: was Obama's campaign manager in 2008, his top political advisor
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: in the White House during the reelection, my boss in
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: both of those occasions. and was senior advisor to Kamala
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Harris during the 2024 campaign. David is one of the
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: smartest and most strategic people in democratic politics, and I
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: wanted to sit down with him and talk about these issues.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: David Plouffe, welcome back to Pod Save America.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Always good to be with you, Dan. Go Sixers.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Go Sixers. All right. So you wrote an op-ed
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: in the New York Times, which got a lot of attention,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: pissed off some powerful people, and I recommend everyone read it,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: but I just want to give people a flavor of
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: it because it's going to guide our conversation today. Here's
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: what you write. Right now, Democrats have no credible path
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: to sustaining control of the Senate and the White House.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: After the adjustments to the Electoral College map that most
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: likely come with the next census, the Democratic presidential nominee
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: could win all the states won by Kamala Harris, plus
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the blue wall of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, and still
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: fall short of the 270 electoral votes needed to win.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: The point of your op-ed is the Democratic Party is
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: in crisis. What caused you to take these thoughts to
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: the New York Times?
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Well, Dan, and for me, I mean, I spent a
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: lot of time on the specifics, but the spirit of
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: it is more important to me than any specifics, which
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: is when you think about the Supreme Court, we could
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: have two, three retirements over the next decade. I think
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: that the view that somehow once Trump leaves the scene,
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: everything will return to normal. I think it's going to
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: get worse after Trump, not better. The only antidote really
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: is sustained democratic control of all chambers, but particularly the
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: president in the White House. And I'm sorry, the White
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: House and the Senate. And when you look at just
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: how few states were competitive in a presidential race or
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: the Senate, the math is just unrelenting. And what also
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: guides my thinking on this is the Republican Party right
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: now is dreadful. They are despised by the American people.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: The only entity maybe more despised is the Democratic Party.
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: So when your opponent is in the shitter, that's the
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: time to kind of get out of the shitter you're in.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: and really give voters a sense of, oh, there's new
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: people and there's new ideas and they seem different and
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: they're willing to admit their mistakes. There's clearly a huge
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: opening here for us to rebuild our brand, our electoral performance.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: But if we don't do that, by the way, one
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: thing I think about, you and I both lived through
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Merrick Garland. Let's say we win the White House, but
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: we don't have the Senate. Is there any guarantee, like
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: if Thomas or Alito, something were to happen to them,
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: they retired? that we could confirm a Supreme Court justice,
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't take that bet to the bank.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I would assume no.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: It's not right. So you can either complain about it,
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: which we should do, or say, how do we make
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: sure something like that doesn't happen? So that more elections
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: than not, we have a chance to be 50 plus
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: in the Senate and hold the presidency for an extended
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: period of time. And I think if we do those things,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: we're probably going to like where we are in the
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: House as well.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: So I think it's worth just dialing in a little
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: bit on the electoral college point. We've talked about the Senate.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: We'll talk about the Senate some more in this conversation
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: with Electoral College. As we sit here today, and these
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: are all estimates, but we have a pretty good sense
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: of where things are headed. The most likely scenario is
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: California and New York lose somewhere to be combined six
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: to seven votes, and Texas and Florida gain somewhere six
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: to seven votes, which means that the map that we
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: almost won with in 2016, we did win with in 2020,
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: we came close to winning in 2024, those are all
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: off the table. You would have to win with a
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: map that looked Like Obama 2012, you really have to
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: be competitive either in a whole swath of states in
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: which we're not competitive, or you have to be able
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: to win Florida or Texas or both. Otherwise, there's just
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: no really credible path to getting there on a regular basis.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: I mean, the blue wall doesn't get you there anymore,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: even with that second congressional district of Nebraska, which by
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: the way, I assume they're going to change or try
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: to again. So yeah, I mean, we have to... Georgia, Arizona, Nevada,
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: all critical. We have to keep trying to figure out
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: how to get more competitive in Florida, eventually, you know,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: break their back in Texas. But we've got to be
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: more competitive in more places. And you saw in 24,
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: you know, Nevada and Arizona weren't that close. You know, Georgia,
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: a little more competitive. So the notion that somehow after 20,
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: like Arizona and Nevada are going to be states that
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: we win more often than not, I don't think it's true.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: We're We've got to put more targets on the board.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: And that should scare everybody, that we could have a
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: great electoral performance in 2032, as we thought in this
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: last decade, and fall short. So we've got to put
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: more states in play. That's just the reality. And I
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: believe we have the opportunity to because I think some
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: of the gains Trump made with non-college voters, particularly of color,
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: you see them fleeing him. Doesn't mean we're going to
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: get them back, but they're open to that. I think
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: we've got the ability to do better in some rural communities,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: not by a lot, but by a few points. Clearly,
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: you know, Kamala Harris actually showed real strength with some,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: you know, college educated older white voters. So I think
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: we've got the ability to do that, but it's not
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: something we can say it should happen. It has to happen.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: It has to happen or we're going to have neither
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: the Senate or the White House for the next decade.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: And it's not going to be like Mitt Romney in charge.
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: It's going to be a more skillful, more palatable, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: super scary version of Trump.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: And I think there is this paradox we're all living in,
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: which is the 2026 midterms look pretty good right now.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Not as good as they did in 2018, but the
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: House certainly has a map that is very winnable. The
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Senate map, while hard, looks better than it's looked in
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: a long time. We have good candidates running in places.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: We have some paths to get to 50 votes there,
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: which seemed impossible a year ago. As you mentioned, the
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: polls are pretty clear that Trump's dropped a lot. And
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: the New York Times poll that came out earlier this
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: week said very explicitly that Trump's numbers with the coalition
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: that powered him to victory in 2024, young voters, strictly
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: young men, Latino voters, working class, non-white voters, Trump's numbers
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: with those groups now look exactly like they did in
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: 2020 when he lost, not like when he won in 2024.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: And that's all great news. But at the same time,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: we're looking at this problem where even in today's world,
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: we are capped at like 53 Senate seats if we're lucky,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: because we only have one. There's only one Republican in
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: a blue seat. There's only two Republicans in a purple seat.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: If you count four, if you count North Carolina, a
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: state we haven't won since 2008, we have a low
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: ceiling there. Then you look at 2028, you could see
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: a world where you could say a generic good Democrat
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: can win the White House against the unpopular vice president
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: to an unpopular president. You can see that path. But
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: then that person is going to come in and have
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to win with a much bigger... Normally, as we know,
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: your first election, you get to a number. And your second,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: you get reelected with a smaller number. And that smaller
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: number is not going to work in 2032. And so
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: the paradox here is things look good in the short term.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: In the long term, we have some pretty big changes
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: we have to make in our party to have what
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: you argue, which is sustainable control to actually stamp out MAGA.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: This isn't ignoring all the problems Republicans have. It's that...
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: It's not when you're fighting against something that looks like
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: the MAGA movement, you can't just swap power every four years.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: We've seen how damaging that could be. And so we
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: are sort of in this like crisis mode that, but it's,
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: it doesn't feel that way in the moment, but when
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: you take a step back, the party really has a
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: ton of work to do, which is why I think
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Europe had some important and probably kind of pissed off
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: some people, but let's begin with the party brand, right? The,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: where we are right now, the democratic party brand is
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: in the toilet. It's at around the lowest level it's
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: been in history. And that's concerning. for a lot of reasons.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: But one reason is typically politics is seesaw. One side
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: goes down, the other one goes up. Trump has come down.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: We have not gone up. What's your theory as to
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: what's happened to the Democratic Party brand? Because for the
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: most of the 21st century, other than right after 9-11,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party has been more popular than the Republican Party.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: How do we get here?
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So just a second on some of what you
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: just said. I mean, the Times poll is interesting. I mean,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Trump obviously doesn't like it. He's threatening to sue them
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: based on the poll. But if you look at all
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: of his numbers, and by the way, I think one
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: of the tasks for 26 is, one, make every Republican
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: running for office own all the downside. In a way,
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: I think Trump historically has been stronger than a lot
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: of his candidates. Right now, I worry the opposite. You
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: got to make these guys and women pay full price.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: But secondly, for us, yeah, 26 could be good. But
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: given what you just said, we don't have a Senate
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: race to lose or a House race we can waste.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Like we can't afford it. We've seen they, by nominating
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: a bunch of knuckleheads through the years, have lost Senate
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: races they should have won. We can't do that. So
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: we have to maximize 26 as well. Like you're a
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: big basketball fan. Like Michael Jordan never went into the
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: halftime locker room when they're up six happy. Like why
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: the fuck aren't we up 12? Like I think we
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: need more of that mentality. But that Times poll was
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: disconcerting because you think maybe the generic ballot should be seven, eight,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: nine points, and it wasn't. And if it's that high,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: by the way, we can definitely win the House with
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: some margin, but also win the Senate in this tough environment,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: which I think should be the goal. I think with
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: the brand, I think, first of all, there's still a
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: hangover from Biden, both him running and I think people's
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: view that he mishandled the economy and the border. He
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: did a lot of great things, obviously, but right now
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: voters are penalizing him. And I think the Democratic Party
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: I think, kind of stood by and let that happen.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: I think there's a sense from voters, I'm just reporting what,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: you know, great researchers show us when they talk to voters,
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: that we weren't as maniacally focused on lifting wages and
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: helping people who are living their lives right now, as
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: opposed to we had, I think people thought we were
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: a little more ideologically focused. There's no doubt that there
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: was a sense from some voters that we were more
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: focused on social issues, as important as they are, than
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: the economy. And, you know, I think that... We haven't had,
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: you know, at the national level, you know, for some time,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: kind of the exciting candidate. You know, Joe Biden won.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Thank goodness. Hillary ran a strong race. Kamala did. But
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: we haven't had the Obama, Clinton, Trump astride our party,
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: which becomes an avenue for people, I think, to. come
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: over to you. So I think the other thing I think,
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: you know, Mamdani's interesting. You've watched him closely as have I.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: This is another thing. I mean, I've seen focus groups
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: where voters kind of say, listen, the Democrats seem like
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: the taxes we pay, they just kind of think it's
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: their money to spend. They don't accept any criticism of government.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: They think all the answers are government. And we, you
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: and I know a lot of the answers are. But
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: what Mamdani shows is even a social Democrat, can blow
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: the whistle on government when it's doing dumb things. And
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: I wrote about this some in the op-ed. I think
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Obama did a lot of this with some of our efforts.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Clinton did. It's really important for us as the believers
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: in government to be the first ones to say, hey,
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: when a program's not working or there's fraud, we're going
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to blow the whistle on it. We're not going to
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: reflexively defend. The other thing I'd point out, I don't
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: think we've walked the walk. I mean, we criticize them
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: for being anti-democratic, for being autocracy-friendly. for not having any norms. But,
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: you know, when we have a guy in Illinois retire
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: from the House and he slides in at the 11th hour,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: his preferred, you know, choice to replace him, you know,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: the leadership says, well, we're not going to criticize him.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: You know, even the delegate from the U.S. Virgin Islands
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: who got, you know, talking points from Jeffrey Epstein, we
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: rally around. So I think I get on the one hand,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: there's a view that the Republicans never criticize each other,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: which I actually don't agree with. I think they criticize
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: But if we truly want to tell people we've changed,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: that we are going to defend them, that we're not
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: going to defend any corruption, we've got to be willing
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: to call it out in our own ranks, in my view.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: And we have some fresh faces out there. I think
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: Tallarico is running a really interesting race. Obviously, Diane Osborne
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: is back in and I think is doing really well
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: in a tough place. So ultimately, the solution to this
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: is new leaders, new candidates, and ultimately who our nominee
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: is in 28 will determine so much, not just about
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: that election, But the next decade, we really have to
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: get that right. Someone who's a great vote getter and
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: can win by enough, as you said, to give us
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: a margin in the Senate. So I think all you
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: have to do is listen to voters and they talk
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: about what's wrong with the Democratic Party. You get an earful. Now,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: the good news is they say just as negative things
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: about the Republicans, but they're in charge. So this is
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: my concern is. I think there was a little bit
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: of after 22, we had a better election than people thought.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Hugely after 22. It's like the great sin of the party.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: It didn't carry forward. It was really because of Dobbs.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: I think we could have a very good 26, but
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: that doesn't mean we've healed any of our wounds. And
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: to me, the tragedy would be if, you know, maybe
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: we have a good 26. Maybe, as you said, we
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: even win the White House in 28. But it's because
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: we are the least worst option. As opposed to some
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: voters saying, actually, yeah, I'm kind of done with MAGA. And,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: you know, this Democratic Party or these Democratic candidates, they
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: seem a little bit different, what they're talking about. I
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: think we clearly have to refresh our economic agenda, centered
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: around non-college workers. Those are also the jobs probably least
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: at risk with AI in the near term until Musk
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: gets all his optimist robots everywhere. So I think that, anyway,
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: the way I always thought, you and I, you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: went through the war together in 2012. And one of
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: the things we'd say is, even though it was a
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: tough economy, and I think for most of 11, most
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: observers thought we'd lose. Every time we did focus groups
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: with swing voters, people were still interested in what Obama
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: had to say. Their ears were open. And I think
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: for a lot of voters right now, they've closed their
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: ears because they just don't believe in what we're saying.
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: They need to hear new things, more compelling things, more
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: honest things, more things connected to their lives. And if
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: they do that, given the weakness of the Republicans, I
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: think we can really profit from it.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: In your piece, and this is the part that pissed
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: off some people, got some members angry at you. You
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: argued that Democrats running for office should call for new
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: leadership in the House and the Senate. Do you think
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: Democrats really should ditch Jeffries and Schumer in the lot?
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Well, listen, as you know, after the election, it's an
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: inside game. And I would imagine both of those gentlemen
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: will have, you know, the inside track to leadership if
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: we win back the House and her Senate. But that
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean that a candidate, the way I always think
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: about this, Dan, is if you're in a room of
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: 150 people in central Iowa, okay, or in suburban Arizona,
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: and a House candidate or a Senate candidate is talking
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: to a group of voters, And you say, listen, I'm
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: running against Trump. I think what they're doing is harmful
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: to the economy, to our country. There's a bunch of
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: institutions that aren't delivering for people. But I also think
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: my party has to change. Like, people are going to
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: be nodding their heads, right? So I would just say this.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Nancy Pelosi, who's one of the greatest leaders in the
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: history of America, was always very free and open with candidates.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: You say what you have to say to win, even
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: if they were critical of her. And, you know, these
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: positions aren't about any one person. You know, there's an existential...
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: thing hanging over us that we have to at least
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: win one of these chambers. I would argue two, given
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: some of the structural things we talked about. So I
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: think there'll be candidates out there that already are, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: challenging leadership. I would suspect at the end of the day,
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: if we're successful electorally, the current leaders will, you know,
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: ultimately be the successful candidates. I don't know if other
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: people will run or not. As you know, that's still
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: an inside game. But I guess my point is, Dan,
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: we need candidates to just let it rip and kind
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: of burn all the houses down because that's what voters
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: want to hear.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Positive America is brought to you by Acorns. For a
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: long time, I just put my money under the mattress
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: because I've never taken an economics class. But then, now
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: there's Acorns. So many of us only focus on where
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: our money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: that cares about where your money is going tomorrow. Acorns
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: is a smart way to give your money a chance
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: to grow.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: It's easy.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: your spare money, even if all you've got is spare change.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Acorns grows with you, whether you're just starting out or
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: thinking about settling down. Acorns supports your big and small
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: goals across every life stage. The Acorns potential screen shows
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you the power of compounding and how your money could
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: grow over time. Plus, you can quickly adjust how much
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you're investing every day, week, or month to make sure
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you're building towards your goals. Acorns is all-in-one. No more
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: finance apps cluttering up your phone. With Acorns, you can
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: invest safe and give your money a chance to grow
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: in one trusted place.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: It's easy.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: You can start with just some spare change. If you
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: have more than that, you can do more than that.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Either way, you're going to want to watch your money
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: grow because if you're not using Acorns... and you're just
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: sort of letting your money sit in a checking account somewhere.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Or in crypto or something.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you're just losing out on money. Sign up
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: now and Acorns will boost your new account with a
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: $ 5 bonus. Join the over 14 million all-time customers who've
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: already saved and invested over $ 27 billion with Acorns. Head
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to acorns.com slash cricket or download the Acorns app to
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: get started. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: promote Acorns. Tier 2 compensation provided. Potential subject to various
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: factors such as customer's accounts, age, and investment settings. Does
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: View important disclosures at acorns.com slash cricket. Pod Save America
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: is brought to you by Strawberry.me. You know that feeling
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: when a new year starts and you tell yourself, okay,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: this is the year work is going to be great.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And then two weeks later, you're already burned out again. Ooh,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: so I can read my mind. Yeah, we've been there.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: If work left you drained last year, today's sponsor, Strawberry.me,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: can help you change that. Strawberry is career coaching. It
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: gets to the real source of your burnout, whether it's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: too much on your plate, no boundaries, a tough manager,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: or just feeling totally disconnected from the work you do.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: A coach helps you figure out what's draining you, build
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: habits that protect your energy, redesign your day-to-day so it
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: feels sustainable, and create a plan so burnout doesn't come
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: back by March. It's not therapy, but honestly, it's like
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: therapy for your career.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I've got this co-host.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: No boundaries.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: No boundaries.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: No boundaries at all. And here's the good part. You
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: can get matched with a coach who fits your personality
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: and goals in just a few minutes. Sessions are flexible, private,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and made for real people with real jobs, not the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: fantasy version of you that always has it together.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: I love that version of me. That's a great version.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Such a good version.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: I love that idea of me.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: If you're listening to this thinking, yep, I'm burned out,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: let this be your New Year reset. Go to strawberry.me
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: slash cricket and try your first coaching session for 50% off.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: That's strawberry.me slash cricket.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: You're exactly right. If the Democrats take the House, Hakeem
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Jeffries is going to get reelected and probably should, right?
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: That's your job. Your job is to win the majority.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: You want the majority. That's great. I don't know what
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: will happen with Schumer. That's probably maybe a tougher bill there.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I do think the candidates who run on– this is
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: really important. The candidates who run on, I'm going to
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: vote for someone else, have to actually vote for someone else.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: when they get there, because otherwise you are making, you're
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: just like, then you're just, you're playing the game and
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: you're going to look ridiculous, but you actually have to
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: follow through on it. Cause there's a bunch of people,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Plattner said he's not voting for Schumer, uh, Mallory McMorrow.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: And I think, uh, maybe, uh, I know Mallory McMorrow,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: maybe Abdul Saeed, others have said they won't support Schumer.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: There are some people saying that, but then you actually
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: got to, you got to do it. You can't then
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: come here to a photo op of Schumer and then
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: vote for him.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But you know, there'll be a process and you know, uh,
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe multiple votes. We'll see who emerges, but
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: I guess I think, you know, The most important thing
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: in an election is to meet voters where they are,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: to understand where they are, their concerns. And I think
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: that they're very concerned about Trump and MAGA, the economy.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: They're very concerned about, you know, Greenland. They're very concerned
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: about a whole host of things, the ICE raids. But,
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: you know, they're not sure that we're the remedy. And
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: I think candidates ought to understand that.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: One of the things you'll hear from when people like
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: you and I have this conversation in the Sabbath Social
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America all the time, we talk about the
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: problems with the Democratic Party. Or argue that Democrats should
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: run against the Democratic Party. You'll hear from people in
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: the party, and you probably heard this after your op-ed,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: that one of the reasons the Democratic Party brand is
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: down is that the people who are most critical of
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: the Democratic Party are Democrats. Do you have any response
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: to that?
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: Well, Dan, I think, you know, people like you and
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: I are kind of mostly irrelevant. It's what the Democratic
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: Party voters are saying. You know, it's the general public.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: So swing voters for sure. you know, express strong concern,
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: but also Democrats. So at the end of the day,
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: I just think we have to be honest. And I
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: think our strongest candidates historically, you look at Barack Obama,
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: you look at Bill Clinton, you look at John F. Kennedy,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: you know, on their side, Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, these
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: people who build electoral coalitions, you know, were pretty clear
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: about while they were running against Republicans and running against
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: problems in the country, they also wanted to change things
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: about their own party. And you know, I think it's
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: hard to argue that we don't have some form of
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: market failure if you use that in a political context,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: which is voters right now for the most part have
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: two choices, that's it. They're dissatisfied with both choices. So
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: what if you strengthen your hand so they're slightly less
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: dissatisfied with you while your opponent's still stuck in the gutter?
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: So I just think that's not healthy. And by the way,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I think that's largely a social media, very online discussion.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's what real people out in the
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: country are talking about. If they actually support the Democratic Party,
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: they want it to be as strong as possible, not
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: to convince ourselves somehow we're stronger than we actually are.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: I want to get to 28 in the long term
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: here in a second, but let's stick on 26 because
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: that's sort of the wolf closest to the door here.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: In your piece, you argue that we have to make
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Republicans own all of Trump's problems. I think there's a
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: bit of an internal debate, and I'm having it within
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: myself too, about whether as a party... we are too
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: focused on Trump as opposed to the Republicans. Because you
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: can see this in the Wall Street Journal poll that
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: came out about a week ago. Trump's numbers are in
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the toilet on every issue, right? He's barely above water
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: on border security and everything else underwater. But then when
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: you ask people who do they trust more on inflation, economy, immigration,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: et cetera, a generic Republican in Congress or generic Democrat
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: in Congress, they pick Republicans by pretty large margins. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: so I think we have this dilemma, which is, There
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: is a short-term turnout advantage to making our race be
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: about Trump. Like that will get our people fired up.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: That will get donations from grassroots donations. But it does
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: have some medium and long-term consequences for the fact that
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: the guy's never on the ballot again. How are you
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: thinking about that question?
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you singled out some of those generic
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: matchup questions with issues because it should scare the living
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: daylights out of us.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: That's why the generic ballot's five, not eight, right?
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Not eight, right. So I think that if you think
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: about an incumbent House Republican or even a Republican running
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: in an open seat, or certainly, you know, Collins and
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: Cruz and Ricketts, I think the task between now and
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: November is to make them own factories closing, people losing healthcare, like,
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: you know, starting in the beginning of February, a bunch
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: of people who signed up on the exchanges aren't going
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: to go through with it because it costs so much
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: because the Republicans make them own that, make them own
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: the tariffs and what that's done. So I think that, um,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you know, the way I think you bring Trump in
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: that is maybe to say they've not stood up to
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Trump or they've supported Trump, but the most important thing
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: is to make them own it. So if I had to,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: you know, say, how do you spend $ 10 or 10 minutes,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: you know, I'd spend seven or eight of those dollars
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: or minutes making the case against that Republican elected official
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: or candidate separate apart from Trump, that they own this,
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: you know, so that I think, you know, you know
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: how these races are, 26. Even if we win back
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: the House, You know, there could be eight, 10, 12
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: seats we don't win by 1,000 or 2,000 votes. If
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: we don't win back the Senate, it could be close.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: So making them pay full price. So those swing voters
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: who go into the booth say, this person is not
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: separate from Trump. And here's the other reason this is important, Dan.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: By the summer and certainly by the fall, all of
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: these candidates are going to be lying and talking about
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: where they stood up to Trump or where they disagreed
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: with Trump. And the more that we lay that concrete
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: now and through the course of the campaign, the It'll
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: be harder for them to do that. So I'm concerned
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: that some of these, you know, Republican candidates who are
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: on the more skillful side of things will convince some
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: of these voters, well, that's all Trump. You know, my
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: guy or my woman tried to basically stop him or
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: had a different idea.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Does it affect your calculus at all that the Senate
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: battleground is taking place almost entirely in states Trump won?
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: And the House battleground, as much as we'd like to
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: think that this is his favorable territory for us, there
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: are only, I think it has four seats that have
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Republicans in districts that Kamala Harris won. There's not that
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: many in districts that Trump won by five. There's been
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: a narrow 2024 GOP-like majority and an actual real majority
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: in the House. You have to win Trump plus seven,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: plus eight, plus 10 seats. Does that affect how you
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: think about it? Or is it dissatisfaction with Trump among
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: independents and this three to 7% slice of 2024 Trump
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: voters enough to put those districts in play that you
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: can run against Trump there?
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think so. I mean, I think particularly
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: in those Trump 10, Trump 12 districts, Trump 8, you know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: you've got to put the Republican incumbent on trial and
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: they have to own, you know, your energy costs are up,
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: your health care costs are up, this big factory closed,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: you know, your paycheck's not going further, further enough. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: think you've got, they're the ones on the ballot, not Trump.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: And so I think you have to make it about them.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: And your point about these districts and the Senate is
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: really important. Like, This is hostile territory. So even though
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: we have a very good environment, this is another reason
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: I'm very focused on how do we maximize every vote
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: with repair and refresh and reform of the democratic offering
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: because we're going into some deeply hostile places that we
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: may be able to win just because Trump's so unpopular,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: people's economic concerns are so profound, but nobody should underestimate
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: the degree of difficulty here. This is gonna be really,
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: really hard to win But to your point, where you
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: could actually maybe get into the mid-220s or high-220s in
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: the House, you're going to be winning a bunch of
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: places that are pretty red.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: And I mean, this also goes to the party brand
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: question about why over the course of the next period here,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: people have to fundamentally have a fundamentally different view of
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: who Democrats are, because otherwise we're renting these seats for
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: two years in the House, maybe four years if we
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: can make it through the presidential year. And these are
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: one-term senators, right? This is a let's say Mary Paltola
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: is lucky enough to get through in a tough race
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: in Alaska or James Tallarico or someone else can win
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: in Texas or Sherrod Brown wins in Ohio, is they're
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: winning because they are running in the right year with
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: the right political environment. And the next time they are up,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: it's going to be in a presidential election year and
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: look very different. And so in 32, and so you
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: actually have to be able to keep these seats, not
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: rent them. And that requires like not winning on a
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: sort of a black swan event of just the one
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: year of inflation, Trump being unpopular, chaos in the streets,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: and you win. It really hammers the point that you're
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: winning despite the brand in 26. You have to win
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: again in 32 for these senators or 28, 30 for
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: the House members. The brand has to look very different
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: to people. It has to be palatable in these states. Right.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: Or you're right. You're running and you give it right
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: back in 32. I mean, I think sometimes people think
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: it's crazy to think beyond the next election, but we
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: haven't done enough of that, which is what's the big
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: thing here at play, right? And that's in terms of investing, infrastructure,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: but also understanding. So all you're trying to do is
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: win the Senate. But to your point, you've got to
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: look down the road because Let's say we win a
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: bunch of these places, Ohio, Alaska. I mean, from your
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: lips to God's ears, that would be amazing. But then 32,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: let's say we win the White House in 28. So,
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: you know, you have a Democrat running for reelection, tough map,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: presidential year turnout, super hard. So that's the test, I think,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: is can we get to the point where year after year,
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: cycle after cycle, we feel that we have a 50%
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: chance at least to win. And right now, I think
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: you'd say, of course not. I mean, we need to
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: take it, you know, we need to be gifted, you know,
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: political tailwinds. And I just don't think that that is
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: going to save the country when we look at the threat.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, I, you know, you think about the court,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: like it's not, maybe it's not likely. It's also not crazy.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Like we could have an 8-1 court by like 2040
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: if we don't have sustained political party.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: 8-1.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: And that's almost like Katie shut the door time. Yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: As you think about the strategy for this cycle, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: I've had this debate with people in the House leadership,
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: I can't tell if they agree with me or not,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: but do you think the party needs their version of
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Contracts for America or something, you know, the six for
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: six from 2006, like a policy agenda of here are
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: the things that we are going to try to do
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: if we win or that we, you know, that we
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: stand for if we win? Like, do we actually need
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: a positive agenda or is that giving The argument against,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: which you hear from a lot of people, and a
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: lot of people at high levels of power in our
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: party is, Trump is failing, he is losing. By putting
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: our own agenda out there, we're giving them a target
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: and making it more of a choice than a referendum.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: And we really want it to be a referendum. What
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: do you think?
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting. So much of this originates back to
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: the 94 race and the contract with America. What people
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: forget is heading into the election, the contract for America
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: was a very minor part of that election. But as
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: you know, when you win an election, you've got to
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: tell the story about why you won. So I think
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: we ought to also be grounded in the fact that 94,
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: those results, which were historic at the time, we've had
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: landslides since, was not about the contract with America. And
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: so now what's interesting is, I guess, as I think
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: about this question, the most important people to answer the
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: question are the candidates running in tough House and Senate races.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: And my suspicion is they would rather not have a
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: national Republican versus national Democratic campaign, in part because Trump
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: and the Republicans are unpopular. Democratic brands unpopular. I can
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: be something different. I don't want to be tied to
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: the party. So, you know, to the extent the House
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: and Senate leadership are thinking about this, I would be
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: in dialogue not with my colleagues in the caucus rooms.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: I would be talking to the vulnerable candidates, you know,
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: in House and Senate races and get their view. My
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: guess is they would say it's not helpful. I think
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: I'll do better kind of flying my own flag than
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: being tied at all to a National Democratic Party flag.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: But that's my view. It's a tough call.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so my mind is not made up on it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: I think the counter argument is, one, if you're running
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: in a very red seat, you should run against it.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: That's also helpful. No one has any idea what we
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: stand for. We live in this massive communications vacuum. I mean,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: if you talk to voters, ask them when the last
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: time they saw a Democrat who was not AOC or
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Mamdani or maybe Bernie speak. And not that there's any
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: problem with them speaking. I think that's great. But just
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: very few of them actually break through. Many of them
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: couldn't pick Schumer or Jefferson out of a lineup. It's
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: just that like the communications asymmetry is so big is one.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: The other– and so having something that they're putting throw
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: weight behind a message about something we stand for. Like
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying that you should put like Medicare for
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: all in here or– but like an idea of– maybe
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: you could.
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: But just the ideas that you would have is like
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: a handful of affordability ideas and some reform ideas. Like
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: this is the part where I think probably get the
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: most pushback from the leadership is I think The huge
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: error– I think there's three sins that have put us
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: in this place of our own doing. Some of the
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: reason why the party brand's in the toilet is circumstance
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: of being president at the wrong time during COVID and
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: during sort of the– when people are ready to get
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: out of COVID but could not yet get out fast
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: enough and then inflation. But it's Biden running again, right?
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: And then everything that came with Biden's inability and unwillingness
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: to communicate basically throughout his entire presidency in a way
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: that voters actually heard. The second is misreading the 2020
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: election to think it meant that people, that Biden's victory
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: was a validation of institution norms in the pre-Trump political
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: system when it was just like, it was much more,
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: it was not that at all. It was just, it
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: was more rejection of the system than anything else and
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: that people hate the political system and we became defenders
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: of the political system in a very dangerous way. And
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: the third one is misreading the 2022 midterms, as we
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: were talking about, as a validation of where Democrats were
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: as opposed to like a blip in time. On the
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: second one, I do think that one thing the party
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: has to do, maybe this is what the good candidates
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: will do, which is also fine, is actually– and part
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: of this is running against the party. Like that gets
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: into that. But also it's how do you get money
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: out of politics? How do you get lobbyists out of politics?
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: How do you deal with corporate power in politics? Like
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: they're you know, the most basic thing we can't get,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: we have been failed to do for years now, stop
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: members of Congress from trading stocks. Like that sort of
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: stuff could be part of an agenda that actually helps.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: Now I, obviously my mind is still not made up here,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: but I think it is like, that's, that dilemma is,
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: do you leave a vacuum for the other side to define?
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Or do you give your, or do you have like
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: a ready-made answer for what you would actually do? Which
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: I know is hard because you can't do any of
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: the things if you win and they have the White House, right?
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: That is the challenge.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: Well, and one, I don't know if this is right.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, maybe it doesn't have to be a comprehensive
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: agenda that tackles and tickles every issue. Maybe it's- No,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: it shouldn't be. Maybe it's on corruption. And so our
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: House and Senate candidates, most of who have compelling ideas
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: around this, can say, I've talked to the House and
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: Senate leadership and they say, yeah, if we went back
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: day one, banning stocks, crypto, you know, you know, no lobbying. Like, oh,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: this is a place, by the way, where I think
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: voters also, they don't trust somehow that we're going to
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: be different because we've defended a lot of this stuff.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Like I think on sort of anti-corruption stuff, you can't
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: go far enough. And I think our candidates, for the
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: most part, will go very far on this. This is
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: where it would be helpful if they can say, no, no,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: it's not pie in the sky. There's going to be
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: a vote. So, you know, it could be, maybe it's not,
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: you know, our agenda on economy, on healthcare, on education,
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: on immigration, on corruption, maybe. But if not, there may
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: be pieces of that That are helpful to the candidates
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: that don't cause them problems.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: The hard part with the corruption stuff, because this is
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: another battle I've been having with people for basically since 2020,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: because I've always believed that corruption is an important part
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: of the story we should be telling. But then you
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: talk to pollsters and they'll show you voters either don't
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: care about as much as you think they do, or
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: more importantly, don't trust Democrats to do anything about it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And this is a place, and we'll talk about this
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: a little bit when we get to 28, but this
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: is a place where biography, the message and the messenger
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: do it. I would imagine Mamdani can come across as
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: a reform-oriented candidate because he's seen as an outsider to
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: the system. AOC could. Maybe Plattner could. Maybe some of
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: these other candidates could. But the establishment Democratic politician is
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: not going to be trusted to all of a sudden
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: start caring about you know, members of Congress leaving to
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: become lobbyists, right? And then coming back, using their four
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: privileges to come back and twist arms. Like that is
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: part of the, I guess that is part of the challenge.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: You need the right candidate to be able.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: To pull it off. Well, an outsider candidate though, see,
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that, and I don't think it
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: should be based on Trump. You can say, listen, we've
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: seen a bunch of corruption, but you know, this predates Trump,
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: it's Republicans and Democrats.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: It's Democrats too, yeah.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: And I think what it is, is it goes beyond just,
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: do people think that's important to them? And I agree,
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: it's not important as how far their paycheck's going. But
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: it also says this is an outsider. This is someone
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: who's willing to challenge our own party, the status quo.
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: So there's a credentialing thing. I agree. Someone who's a
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: longtime House member running for the Senate is not going
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: to be as credible as someone who's basically a frustrated
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: citizen saying they've had enough and they're going to be
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: basically a tribune for people on that issue.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: And I've mentioned Platten here a couple of times only
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: because you could do, there are other candidates too, but
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: he's just sort of become the prototypical outsider Democratic candidate.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Dan Osborne, who is not actually a Democrat, but is
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: another example like that. And there are a bunch of people,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: a bunch of House member, you know, House candidates who
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: fit that, you know.
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: You know, the people running, the woman running, the fire
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: general or fire military officer who's running in South Carolina.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: You get a whole bunch of ones like that. But like,
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: those are the sorts of candidates. All right, let's pivot
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: to 28, because in the long term here. But before
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: we get to 28, because I know this will be–
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: but just so we must suffer a little bit, I
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: want to go back to 24 a little bit because
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: I think there are some– I've always found this is
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: a benefit of being working in democratic politics before Obama
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: is I always learned more from the races I lost,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: so I had a lot of opportunities to learn. More
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: than the ones you win, because when you win, you
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: think everything you did was correct. When you lose, you
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: think you actually picture it. You and I, we talked
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: on this podcast a couple of weeks after the election.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: My brain had not yet processed it. I can't imagine
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: yours had either coming right off that campaign for 108
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: however long you were there. But now with the passage
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: of time, are there things when you look back at
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: that race? And I don't mean the things that I
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: think were beyond the campaign's control, like the amount of time,
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: like Biden's decision to run the short campaign, or even,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: and I say this because she wrote about it in
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: her book, Kamala Harris's own unwillingness to separate from Biden
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: in the sort of dramatic way a lot of voters
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: want to do. Are there things like from the campaign
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: strategic execution messaging playbook, you look at that, you say,
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: I wish we'd done that differently or not that it
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: would have been decisive, but that like, now that you've
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: seen how it played out, that makes you sort of
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: question maybe how you've thought about politics or how we
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: should do things differently going forward.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: Well, I think, um, You know, it always sounds defensive
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: to start here, but I do want to start here,
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: which is because, you know, I've thought a lot about this.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: I knew you have, like, could we have won the race?
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: And I don't think even if a bunch of decisions
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: had been done differently by Kamala, I'm not sure it could.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: As close as it was, it was still a lot
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: of votes and the atmosphere was terrible for a Democratic nominee.
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: If Joe Biden had got out, not in 24, in 23,
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: and we'd had a full primary, I think whoever came
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: out of that race would still have been the underdog,
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: given the fact that on Election Day, 50 percent plus
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: in every battleground state gave Trump a positive approval in
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: the economy. And that's what mattered to voters. I'm not sure,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: but they would have been fully formed. They would have,
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: I think, had an easier way of showing where they
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: would have disagreed with Biden. You know, as you know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: on presidential campaign, you know, you want to get your
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: biography fully in there and you've got your economic and
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: your health care and your contrast. No, and that was
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: all condensed. So I'm not sure, by the way, whether
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: it was Kamala or someone else who came out of
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: that primary, I still think you probably would have given
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Trump the advantage, given all the atmosphere.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: For sure. I 100% agree with that.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: I think that's the thing that would have made a difference.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: So I'm not sure there's anything decisive. I mean, I
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: look back, you know, after the first debate, which was
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: such a big moment for Harris, we said we want
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: to debate again. I think we should have said, we'll
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: see you in two weeks on Fox. He might still
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: not have debated, but we should have been more aggressive
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: about having another big moment or two. You know, she
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: worked at McDonald's, he didn't. He had the McDonald's Amendment,
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: we didn't. I certainly regret that. You know, I understand
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: we do live in that kind of world where interesting
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: moments and visuals, even if they're kind of substance-less, but
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: they can be symbolic matter. But the big thing for
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: me is we could have used another moment or two,
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: but I'm not sure at the end of the day,
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: just given the headwinds there. And I think, you know,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: that's why when we spent time with voters, you know,
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: It's hard sometimes, I think, for Democrats to understand this. Like,
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: the threat of Trump's return is so real to us.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: And voters were like, I'm not that really worried about him.
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, the economy was better when
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: he was president. All these Democrats are talking about democracy
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: as a threat, but we still have a democracy. And
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: you'd say, well, Trump, January 6th, and Trump, well, he left.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: And I was a little surprised with those young voters.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: They'd say, and you guys didn't even have a contest.
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: Like for me, it might've seemed that inside baseball that, okay,
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: Biden left Harris. They're like, fuck you guys. Don't lecture us.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: So I think that there was just a bunch of
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: stuff even beyond inflation and concern. But yeah, I think
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: there's some things that I think that, you know, there
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: was a great team, you know, working on social media,
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: on TikTok, on YouTube and Instagram. But I think it's
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: fair to say that it just comes more naturally to Trump.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: And I think that's by the way, Those are mediums,
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: not message, not messenger, to your point, not who the
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: candidate is. That's still more important than how you get
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: the message out. But I think we will be very
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: well served in 28 if our presidential nominee is someone
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: who wakes up every day and thinks about the campaign
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: through the prism of TikTok, Instagram yields, YouTube, maybe a
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: little Reddit. By the way, that's hardly anybody in our
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: party right now.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix. We
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: love Helix mattresses. I got two in my house. My
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: son has one, and we have one in the guest bedroom,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: and we get rave reviews from everyone who's ever slept
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: on it. It's super, super comfy. I've slept on it myself.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Helix is the most awarded mattress brand, tested and reviewed
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: by experts like Forbes and Wired. Helix offers a variety
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of mattresses designed to fit your sleep needs. How will
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: you know which Helix mattress works best for you and
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: your body? Take the Helix Sleep Quiz. It matches you
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences. making
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: it easy to find a mattress that suits your sleep needs.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Helix is the most awarded mattress brand, tested and reviewed
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: by experts like Forbes and Wired. Like I said, Helix
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: will deliver your mattress right to your door with free
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: shipping in the U.S. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a risk-free, customer-first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: with your new mattress. You can rest easy with seamless
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: returns and exchanges. They even offer a 120-night sleep trial
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: and limited lifetime warranty. So go to helixsleep.com slash crooked
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: for 20% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash crooked for 20%
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: off site-wide. Make sure you enter our show name after
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: checkout so they know we sent you. helixsleep.com slash crooked.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Pods of America is brought to you by Mint Mobile.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: The holidays are long over, but you might still be
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: feeling like you've got a big spending hangover. The drinks,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: the holiday food, the gifts, it all adds up. Luckily,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Mint Mobile is here to help you cut back on
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: overspending on wireless this January with 50% off unlimited premium wireless.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Mint Mobile's end-of-year sale is still going on, but only
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: until the end of the month. Cut out big wirelesses,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: bloated plans, and unnecessary monthly charges with 50% off 3, 6,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: or 12 months of unlimited. All plans come with high-speed
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: your existing contacts. You've probably heard us talk about Nina's
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: experience with Mint Mobile. It's now been over a year
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: since she made the switch, and she still couldn't be
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: happier with the service. the data speeds, and most of all,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: the affordable price. This January, quit overspending on wireless with
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: 50% off unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at $ 15 a
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: month at mintmobile.com slash crooked. That's mintmobile.com slash crooked. Limited
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: time offer, upfront payment of $ 45 for three months, $ 90
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: for six months, or $ 180 for 12-month plan required, which
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: is $ 15 a month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra, initial
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: plan term only. Over 50 gigabytes may slow when network
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: is busy. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: See mintmobile.com.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: I want to get to that for sure, because I
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: think this goes back to both the leadership question to
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the House and Senate leadership question, because one of the
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: things you hear about them is, you hear one of
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: the criticisms you get of Jeffries and Schumer is that
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: they're not great communicators, right? That they're Not natural– they're
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: not– I think they can be fine at times, but
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: it's not– they are not– when you're listing the great
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: communicators in a party, you're never putting them on the list. Now,
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: I think this is indicative of the way politics has
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: changed because you worked for Dick Gephardt when he was
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: the House Minority Leader. I worked for Tom Dasch and
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: was a Senate Minority Leader. They're both, I would say,
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: with all due respect to them, fine communicators. Give a
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: good speech, fine, but not– if you're listing the best
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: communicators in the party at the time, they probably– they
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: weren't on top of the list. I guess politics has
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: become much more performance now, right? Like, when you think
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: about those, like, if you were picking a new leader,
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: would communicate, like, we'll get to President Buchanan in a sec,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: but for a leader, like, would you think that their
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: ability to communicate is as important as their ability to
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: hold the caucus together or count votes or something like that?
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: Because Nancy Pelosi, greatest speaker of all time, that was, like,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: she did not spend a lot of time communicating publicly.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: She did most of her work behind the scenes, you know?
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: It's a great question. Yeah, the jobs changed. Now, I
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: think Daschle and Gephardt were both examples, though, Maybe they
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: weren't at the top of the list of great historical communicators,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: but they were pretty good and they could go anywhere
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: and talk to anyone, right? I don't think that's the
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: case right now. I still think at the end of
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: the day, the most important thing is to be an
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: exquisite leader, to know where your votes are, to be
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: able to cut good deals or not good deals and
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: stand and fight. Pelosi, again, is the best example of this.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: So I don't think you should choose a leader. I
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: wouldn't put communication skills at the top of the list
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: because it's become a lot more important, though. It just has.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: And so even if it's not you, to think about
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: communications first, to think about, OK, how are we going
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: to get our message out? How do the people who
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: we need to persuade in the election, how are they
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: living their lives and are we reaching them? So yes, ideally,
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: we'd have leadership in Washington that was both skilled backroom negotiators,
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: took care of their members, had backbone of steel and
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: were good communicators. I don't think what will work is
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: like the Madison Cawthorn approach, which is you're just a
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: good communicator and you suck at the actual job, but
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: you have to pay more attention to that. And even
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: if it's not you as the prime communicator, you need
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: to think a lot about that. So it has changed
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: a lot. But at the end of the day, I
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: think it's less about the specific people than I think
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: just back to this question about should candidates call for
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: new leadership? I just think there's a hunger out there
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: for massive change. And it's 360 degree change. And I
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: think the candidates who embrace that will probably be the
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: most successful. But again, back to your question of, you know,
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: let's say the Democrats decide to have an agenda. Maybe
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: it's every issue. Maybe it's just a couple of issues.
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: You know, how are you going to communicate that? Who's
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: going to communicate that? How loud are you going to be? Like,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: these are really important questions. So I think there's, as
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: you know, you've spent a lot more time thinking about
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: this than I have. Every week it gets harder to
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: reach audiences. So and I think that, you know, it
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: again starts with messenger and message. Without that, it's bullshit.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: But if you're not delivering message and listen, it's hard. Listen,
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: you and I came up in politics where if you
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: had something to say about healthcare or the economy or
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: corruption or foreign policy, it'd be like, well, let's put
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: the policy together. And where are we going to give
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: a speech? And who are we going to give the
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: exclusive interview to? And what press conference? And what's crazy
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: is all that should be at the bottom of the pile.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: Now it's like, What's my TikTok play? What's my reel?
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: You know, what's my visual representation of that? You know,
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: which influencers am I talking to? And that, for people
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: who've come up in a different era, that's like rewiring
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: of the brain. And I'm not sure most people can
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: do it. You know, and this is another reason why
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: we need younger candidates. Why do we need younger candidates? Well, one, politically,
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: I think would be helpful to us, but they also
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: understand how people are living their lives in terms of communication.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: So from a political campaign angle, It's just going to
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: be much more native and much more genuine. And you're
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: going to wake up every day seeing the world through that.
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: I also think substantively, you know, if you're 80 years old,
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: it's almost impossible to know how a 22-year-old person is living,
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: wants to live what their dreams are. Like, and so
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: Rahm Emanuel's call, like, to have everybody, you know, can't
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: be served after 75, you know, to me makes a
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: lot of sense. You know, and I know there's exceptions
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: to that. Pelosi, you know, I mean. Yeah. she's 80, whatever,
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: and you know, no one can hang with her. So
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: I get that you would be losing some of that,
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: but I think generally that's right, both politically, but also substantively.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: As you look at the communication thing is interesting because
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: I'm assuming that electability is going to be a huge
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: driving conversation in the 28 primary. Obviously, you know, everyone's
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: afraid to lose. They want, for good reason, right? The
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: stakes are so fucking high for the country, for the
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: world that, You want to get it right. Now, anyone
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: who thinks they have any idea what actually makes someone
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: electable in this day and age has no idea what
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: they're talking about.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: Particularly as far out.
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: After everything that's happened. Yeah, we should have some humility, right?
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: I always say that the prototypical– when we came out
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: of the 2004 election, you go to any collection of
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: Democratic operatives or donor thing, I'm like, how do we–
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: we can't lose again. How do we win in 08?
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: We need a governor– or a senator from a red state.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: I work for Evan Bayh. I work for a senator
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: from a red state. This blows people's minds now. We
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: tell them that Mark Warner, who has just recently been
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: elected governor of Virginia at the time, was the toast
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: of the town. He's who everyone was trying to get
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: in with. He decided not to run ultimately. We all
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: believe that. Everyone believed the conventional wisdom was white male
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Democrat from a red state. We ended up nominating Barack
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Hussein Obama from the south side of Chicago via Indonesia
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: and Hawaii. And then he wins the largest electoral landslide.
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: And the secret al-Qaeda.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: It's going to change. But I think electability will be
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: top of mind. It's why Biden won the 2020 primary.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: I think in that question of electability, it's not just
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: what state are you from? What is your bio? How
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: does it look on paper? It's can you actually communicate?
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: Can you go into all the hostile places and deliver
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: your message? Can you hang and have a cultural conversation
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: on podcasts that resonate with young voters? Do you have
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: a capacity to get your message out? Are you, to
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: your point, digitally native? Do you actually understand how the
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: medium works, which that does benefit you? That's a big
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: part of the conversation. As you look at this 28
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: field right now, I'm not asking you to pick a candidate.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Do you see candidates who have that capacity to actually
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: get the message out? Because even if they're not going
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: against Trump, it's still a media environment that tilts very far, right?
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: It's much easier for a Republican to get their message out.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: By the time we get to 28, they're going to
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: control most of the major media outlets in this country,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: several networks, ProTrump, Billionaire Discover, The Washington Post. And every
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: single social media platform, of consequence, will be owned by
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: a pro-Trump billionaire from Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok. So do
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: you see anyone out there who you think is showing
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: the chops to do that?
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, yeah, the ecosystem is completely unbalanced.
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: And they just have command and control from television to
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: radio to blogs to, most importantly, social media that drive narrative.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: We don't have that. Listen, I would, you know, Twitter, obviously, Musk's,
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: you know, that's a toxic wasteland. It's less a business
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: and more of an ideological mission. I still think, you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: despite the foot playing that's happened, you know, whether it's
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, those are businesses, right? And
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: I think Democrats can use them. I don't think there's
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: going to be a dial turning there to suppress us,
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: but we need to maximize it. So listen, this is
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: less about 28. And I just went before... we have
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: no idea what the democratic party primary voters are going
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: to be looking for in the first quarter of 28.
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: No idea. And we have even less of an idea
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: about what general election swing voters will be looking at
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: in the fall of 28. So I think you're right.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: And that made me very different iterations of that political
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: lifetimes between now and then, you know, obviously Newsom, someone
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: I think who's shown real aggression around social media. I think,
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: you know, Steve, uh, you know, uh, Andy Beshear has
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: been all over podcasts, has his own, you know, uh,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: You know, I think a lot of the governors are
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: leveraging the platforms in smart ways. I think everybody can
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: learn from Omdani in terms of how he's driving message,
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: not as a candidate, but now as a mayor. Like
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Dan Lurie, the same thing. By the way, I don't
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: think this is good for our country. But if you're
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: an elected official now, particularly an executive, you know, it's
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: all day long storytelling. You just have to do that.
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's good, by the way. And I
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: think we should audition our presidents much differently than we
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: have and certainly will this time, which is who's the
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: best performer. But that's what we have. The biography is important.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: Their ideas are important. The timing, do they fit the
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: timing is important. I don't want to say it's all
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: about performance, but that performance is really important, which is,
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: you know, having worked in the White House on the
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: really dark days and moments, how you perform is less
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: important than the decisions you make. We don't really audition
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: for that, sadly. But I think that, so I see
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: some Democrats and the good thing is, it seems like
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: a lot of people are experimenting, but we have to
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: get to the point where our standard bearer and most
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: of our candidates They just wake up every day in
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: the world they think about. How am I going to
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: drive a message? How am I going to make my
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: opponent pay for something? It's not about a speech. It's
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: not about an interview. It's about this multi-platform approach. And
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: as you know, they all need some distinction in how
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: you deal with them. And this is why I think
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: the most important people in campaigns going forward are going
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: to be 22, 23, 24, 25-year-old creators who understand these
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: platforms inside and out. And they should be given real
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: seats at the decision-making table, in my view.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: As I look at this field, I can see– and
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: I like a lot of these people politically and personally.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, me too.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: We've been around long enough. We know a bunch of
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: them now. They've a lot of them have been on
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: the show. I see lots of people who could win
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: in a good political environment in 2028. I really do
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: believe that's a nomination you're going to want to have
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: given Trump's unpopularity, the process by which they're going to
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: end up with J.D. Vance as their nominee who is
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: quite dangerous but also– I think has plenty of flaws
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: and is not wearing well with voters. Like there are these, um,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: the Sarah Longwell put out some focus group results today,
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: which showed that, uh, the only thing that Gen Z
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: men wanted less than JD Vance was, uh, for the
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: United States to invade Greenland. Like he does not, he has, uh,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: he has Trump's MAGA beliefs, uh, but not the charisma
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: that helps you. Um, but, you know, still it's going
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: to be a, it's a danger. But so I can
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: see lots of people who can win that race. What
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: I'm struggling with is to truly succeed, to actually defeat MAGA,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: to not just hand the White House back and forth,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: is you have to change the political alignment. You need
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: a transformative candidate. Now, the primaries tell us a lot.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: The people you think are going to be great, like
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: on the Republican side, Ron DeSantis in this election and
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: Scott Walker 2012 can blow up In their face, we've
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: seen that on our side over the years. People who
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: look great on paper barely make it out of the
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: starting gates. It's hard to see. The candidate who can
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: truly achieve a lot of what you're talking about is
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: an outsider. There's not an obvious outsider in this mix.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: If you go through the list of expected candidates, none
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: of these people have announced, but we all expect they'll run. Newsom, Pritzker, Whitmer, Shapiro, Beshear,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: I'm sure I'm forgetting others, but Mark Kelly said he's
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: thinking of running now. These are all establishment– Gallego. These
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: are all establishment Democratic politicians. And I believe our strongest
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: candidate who truly would have a chance to reset the party,
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: reset the political alignment for a generation in this country,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: who could do for the Democrats what Obama did for
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: the Democrats or what Trump has done for the Republicans–
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: has to be an outsider. Like, am I pining away
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: for something that can't happen here? What do you think?
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a great question, Dan. Are you thinking a
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: particular outsider or two, by the way?
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, look, I think, I mean, I don't
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: have a good answer to this, right? From the people,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: I don't agree with this one per se, but a
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: lot of people on the right, on the center right
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: of the party, like they throw Mark Cuban's name out
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: there because he's, that's sort of like our Trump version,
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: only in the sense that he's a businessman who's very
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: good with the media and is a reality TV star.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: You know, the other one you hear more from the
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: resistance left is would Jon Stewart run, right? So I
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: don't have a good answer for that. I mean, honestly,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not arguing for this per se, but the politician
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: within our party who has the best biography to run
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: for president and the best communication skills is AOC, right?
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: She is an outsider, bartender, and she can communicate with
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: the best of them. I don't think she's like, I
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: have no indication she's actually thinking of running, but like,
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: if you were saying like, what is our version of
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Obama was elected official, but he'd been elected official such
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: a short period of time that he wasn't defined by that.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like, we just, I don't, I don't
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: see that person. So I'm like keeping my eyes open
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: for who that can be because people weren't talking about Obama. Actually,
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: people were talking a lot about Obama at this point
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: in 2006, you know, the relevant point in the cycle,
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: but they weren't seriously thinking he was not thinking he
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: was going to run. Like, who was like, is there
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: someone out there that we're not thinking of who could
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: get in the mix?
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Well, So first of all, I mean, my hope is
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: that we have some of the Cubans and stewards run
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: in part because I hope this primary is big and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: messy and tough and hard. Because I think if our
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: nominee has to survive the toughest obstacle course possible, that
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: person will be stronger. And it might even be someone
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: who you'd say on paper you don't think has the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: kind of reach to really expand the electorate in our coalition.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: Maybe if they survive that primary, you know, oftentimes the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: people who win they don't just come out whole, they
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: come out strengthened by the primary.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: I think Trump did.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: Obama did, right? So I think, just by the way,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: the flip side is people who look like tigers on paper,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: like DeSantis, like John Glenn, like Walker, you know, they
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: get chewed up in their political graveyard. So it works
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: both ways. So I think we should have outsiders run.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: You know, listen, I don't know what AOC is going
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: to do. And I understand the conventional wisdom would be, well,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: you know, she would get demolished in a general election.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: I'm not so sure about that. I mean, Uh, she's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: an outsider. And by the way, talent matters, talent, talent. Again,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: back to like, I sound like super luxury old person.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: Like I wish, I wish we elected presidents based on
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: their talent to run the situation room and like work
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: with Congress, but we don't. So the ability to communicate, inspire, reach, um,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: handle crisis, um, in your campaign is so important. She's
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: clearly got that. Um, I would say, you know, based
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: on prior election history, and by the way, that doesn't
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: mean anything in a presidential election necessarily, but like, you know,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: Bashir has overperformed a lot. Shapiro's overperformed. All those Michigan
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: candidates have overperformed. Gallego overperformed. So there's some people in
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: those races, in those states who showed the ability to
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: outperform the sort of democratic average. That doesn't mean that
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 4: translates to a general election because I think in a
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: general election, yeah, profile background matters, But it's really that talent.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you've looked a lot at this.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: You can't overstate it enough. These elections are decided by
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: people who pay little to no attention to politics. They
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: don't seek out information. You got to find them. And
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: the way you find them is through compelling moments and
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: genuine moments. Some of them plan, most of them not.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: And so that's what we need in our nominee is someone, yes,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: who can obviously secure the nomination. build confidence in the party,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: build a great organization, have the financial resources, but has
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: that athletic ability to capture people's attention whose attention doesn't
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: want to be captured. And the primary in part is
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: for that. And so you're right on paper, I don't
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: think we've got a bunch of people. The other thing, Dan,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: is I'd be surprised, you and I are political veterans,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: that there won't be two or three people that run
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: that you and I would not name right now. And
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: I hope that's true. I hope that's true. I agree
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: very much with you.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Squarespace offers a complete library
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: of professionally designed and award-winning website templates with options for
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: every use and category. Squarespace domains make it easy to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: find the best name for your business at one fair,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: all-inclusive price, no hidden fees or add-ons required. Every Squarespace
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: domain comes with advanced privacy and security tools included to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: ensure your domain remains online and protected. Make smarter business
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: decisions with Squarespace's intuitive built-in analytics tools. Review website traffic,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: learn where to focus engagement, and track revenue from bookings, invoices,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: or product sales, all from one place. Squarespace provides everything
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: you need to bring more of your dream to life,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: whether that means building a website or adding a professional
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: email service. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial, and
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash crooked
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: to save 10% off your first purchase of a website
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: or domain. That's squarespace.com slash crooked.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: So talent, electability, communications dictate who wins the primary. The
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: other thing that dictates the primary is the calendar. Right now,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: in our minds, it has always been thus. We would
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: go Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina. That would be it.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: That's how we've done it. There is currently no calendar.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: For the first time ever, there was nothing to operate.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: Biden changed it to South Carolina first, then didn't have
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: a primary. Do you have a view on what the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: calendar should be?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: I have some thoughts about the principles. Now, I think
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: there's been 12 states, right, that have basically submitted an application.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: So you should ignore the other 38. It is these
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: 12 that will make up the early states. So my
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: principles are the past shouldn't matter. History shouldn't matter. Relationships
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: shouldn't matter. Given the existential nature of what's in front
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: of us, we should have a calendar that we think
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: gives us the best opportunity to produce the strongest nominee
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: to win the presidency. So that would mean to me,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: I would make sure that the first four are all
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: battleground states. You and I know the value. Why do
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: I want to do that? You get exposure in those states.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: You build up an organization in those states. But also
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: the nominee gets comfortable in those states. So other than
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: if Kamala Harris runs, none of these candidates know much
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: about these states. By the way, how much better of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: a general election candidate was Barack Obama having spent all
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: that time in Iowa and New Hampshire, Nevada? He knew
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: the people, he knew the reporters, he knew the media markets,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: like he knew the economy. So with all due respect to,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: you know, you and I have deep love for Iowa
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: and for South Carolina, I would not have a non-battleground state.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 4: And the good thing is you've got, you know, Georgia
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: and North Carolina both want to be battleground early. So
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: does Arizona and Nevada. So does Michigan. Northeast, our home state, Delaware,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: actually demographically would be a great place to start actually.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: But I think New Hampshire probably- is the other one
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: in that region. And I would probably start relatively small
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: to big so that you give candidates the opportunity to
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: compete in a state that's not overwhelming in size or expense.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: I also think you should give a lot of thought
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: to what comes after the first four, because it may
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: be we have a political athlete who emerges, who wipes
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: the floor with everybody like Trump did back in 16,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: and they're going to be the nominee after the first four.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: And in a way, the calendar wouldn't matter there other
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: than it helps you for the general election. So I
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: think the calendar choice should be, how does it help
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: you win the general election? How do you put together
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: a good test for the candidates? But then what comes
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: right after is important. Like I would make sure New
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: York's relatively early if you can do that. Like why
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: New York? New York's a tough place to compete and
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: you want to put people through their paces. You know, Texas,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: some of these places that we want to reach. So,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: but the most important thing for the DNC Rules Committee
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: is these first four. So for me, as hard as
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: it is sometimes, we should not worry at all what's
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: happened before, who's done what, who has relationships, what is
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: the most ruthlessly, uh, non-emotional surgical thing we can do.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: And the other thing about it is it's not a
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 4: one-way door. If we want to change it in 32,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: we change it in 32 because the roster of battleground
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: states almost certainly will change as it always historically has done.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: So I would go all battleground states early. Um, they're
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: already going to make sure there's geographic diversity. Um, but
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: you know, uh, those are all states.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: And ethnic diversity.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: Um, so, um, That's my view of it. And, you know, again,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: somebody who just has momentum, who kind of overwhelms the field,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 4: they'll win regardless of the calendar. But if we have,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: you know, if we ever, the other thing I'd say
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: is South Carolina historically, other than in 24, when we
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: didn't have a contest, has been the gateway to the nomination.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: And other than I think 04, when Edwards won, because
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: he was kind of, you know, North Carolina guy.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Local, yeah.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: And why is that? Because once you come out of
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: the early states, You know, the candidate who wins the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: plurality of the African-American vote is going to be our nominee.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: So I still think having a southern state as that
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: last one into the rest of the nomination process is important. Now,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: in my view, it would be Georgia or North Carolina.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: But we'll see. I mean, I think that that's important.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: So that to me is another rule of principle. But
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: to me, the inviolate thing is you just got to
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: put blinders on. Don't worry about what's happened. You know,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: New Hampshire's always had this, South Carolina, like what's the
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: right thing to do to produce the strongest Democratic nominee
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: to advantage that person so we have the best chance
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: not just to win the presidency in 28, as important
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: as that is, but to do it with some margin
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: so we begin to build this electoral coalition that can
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: be sustainable and ultimately extinguish the MAGA threat.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that to me, I 100% agree. The best idea
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: I'd ever heard was, from Kevin Sheehy, Bloomberg Sky, which
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: was you would just take the four closest states from
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: the previous election and do them in the, you know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: so in this case, it would be Wisconsin and Michigan, Pennsylvania, right?
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: Arizona, whatever it is.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: That violates the geographic thing, but that's a fine idea, right?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But the basic principle here is organizing in the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: primary will help you in the general. And because of
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: changes in the electoral college map since 2012, Iowa and
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: South Carolina are not battleground states anymore. And so they
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: should be. We should be able to get to a
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: place where we can compete in either of them. But
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: I remember... being, you know, obviously I spent a lot
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: of time in Iowa in 2008. We had, you know,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: the best organizers in the Democratic Party were in Iowa
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: organizing that state with an inch of its life, right?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Every voter, every community, you know, we knew who they were.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: You could get it. I was there in 2020, you know,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: doing podcasts and covering the caucuses. And then when I
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: flew out the next morning, a bunch of those organizers
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: were on my flight to go to the next state
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: and they were never going to return. They were going
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: to close those offices and they were going to leave.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: And so to spend all Millions of dollars and all
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: this time and money and energy to organize a state
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: that you never return to seems like just a waste
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: of resources. So getting in those battleground states makes a
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: ton of sense to me.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And again, I think the voters, whoever is our nominee,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: will have competed in those states, spent a lot of
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: time doing social media interviews, running ads. So you get
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 4: a head start on your definition. But also, I'll just
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: repeat this candidate thing. even though our presidential campaigns have
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: become more national, even though we have an electoral college,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: your comfort and skill and understanding of these places that
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: will determine the presidency are important. And if you've spent
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: a bunch of time in there, you know, you're a
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: governor or senator or an outsider, you know, in your state,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: you don't know these states. But if you've spent a
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: lot of time campaigning there, you'll be a better candidate.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: And so that's another, I think, principle in terms of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: why it ought to just be battleground states. first four.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: And again, that doesn't have to be something that's a generation.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: We can change it if we need to as battleground
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: states change.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: The last thing I want to get to is in
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: your op-ed, one of the things you brought up was
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: the Democrats need to talk about AI. The day is
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: a huge issue. We need a position on AI. You
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: had ChachiBT write a political ad about AI that was
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: actually quite good. I tried to get another AI tool
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: to do the actual visuals of the ad, not so good.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: So maybe the writers of political ads are in grave danger.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Maybe the actual cinematographers are okay for the short term.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: Maybe another cycle anyway. Yeah.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. At least maybe– I mean, these things are moving
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: so fast. You might be able to keep your job
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: through 26, 28, you might be fucked. But AI is
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: the most important technological, economic, cultural, psychological, social issue of
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: our time. my view is in the party has been
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: bizarrely quiet on it with some exceptions. Uh, Republicans have
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: actually been much more vocal and been, been Republican conference,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: particularly been more vocal critics of Trump's, uh, the Trump's
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: David Sachs, let him cook policy of no regulation. But
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: to the extent we have, you know, the extent that
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: the Democrats are, but it's mostly people who are doing
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 3: like bands on data centers. Um, Where do you think
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: the party comes down on here? Do you have a
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: view of what that messaging or policy position should be?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I just find it bizarre because
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: I would even say, yeah, David Sachs and the Trump administration.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: But generally, we're not having a debate about the thing
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: that's going to have the biggest impact on the country
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: for decades. Like it's insanity. And I think voters express that.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: They're like, this seems like it's just happening to us.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: By the way, they feel like social media happened to them.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: They didn't have any say in it. Now, this is
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: even bigger and it's happened to them. So listen, AI
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: is here. Everyone's using it. There's a lot of benefits
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: in terms of health care, hopefully, and education, all sorts
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: of things. So it's not a pro-AI, anti-AI. I just
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: think given that the Trump administration, a lot of Republicans,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: it's basically a green flag, no questions asked. And by
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: the way, you know, Elon Musk, who's probably the most
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: prominent outside Republican now, is out there saying there will
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: be no jobs. Working will be optional. Everyone can plant
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: flowers and what a great life that will be. People
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: are like, fuck you. It's not realistic. So I think
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: that we're Democrats should say, listen, we need to be China.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: We want to be the leader. We've always benefited from
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: leading technological revolutions and change. We want to do that here.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: We just want to have the right kind of rules
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: and transparency and the right kind of discussions about what
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: kind of economic transition. How do we have to think
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: about changing our education system so people aren't spending hundreds
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: of thousand dollars for degrees that are unemployable Like, so
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: I just think we need to lift our voice now.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be against AI. It needs to be,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: we need to have the right discussion about regulation, around transparency,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: about the adjustments we need to make, but also make
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: the Republicans pay a price for asking none of those questions.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: Because I think voters, you know, I see this in research.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you see this in research. You know, they're
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: getting more and more concerned at a time, by the way,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: where they're already economically worried. So they think things are
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 4: going poorly, and now they got this weighing over them.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: You see with a lot of parents of school-aged kids,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: they're worried their kids aren't learning, that they're not going
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: to learn deeply, that they're too reliant on AI. We
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: have the mental health crisis. So I think for us,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: I think candidates should lean into it and say, if
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: I'm elected, I'm going to put a lot of thought
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: to how we handle this, not in a way that
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 4: hurts us competitively, still allows us to flourish, but this
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: could kill lots of jobs. This is changing education. By
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: the way, this is changing how people deal. We already have, what,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: half of men under 30 have never asked a woman
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: on a date. More and more of them are going
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: to have relationships with chatbots. Like, this is big stuff.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: So to me, there's an opening for leadership that's very
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: much connected to the economy you want to build. And
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, I'm not saying it's going to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: be the leading issue in 26. I think it will
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: be an issue. I think by 28, it could be
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: the dominant issue of one of them. And this is
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: a place where J.D. Vance in particular is deeply exposed.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: and I think could really pay a price by 28
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: if people's sense is this has happened way too fast.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: No one's asking the right questions. I see the devastation
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: all around me. Nobody's thinking about me and my family
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: and my kids. And if we have Democrats at least
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: raising some of those questions, hopefully they have a lot
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: of good answers, but at least willing to raise some
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: of those questions, I think we will politically profit from it.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really, it's quite challenging because it's very different
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: than when social media was starting, when Obama was running, right?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: Where like those companies were viewed quite positively by the
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: public as something different, like for all the skeptics that
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: they had of Wall Street or big oil or big
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 3: pharma or big tobacco or all the bigs, right? There
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: was a sense that these companies run by these new
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: younger people were something different or better. And so Obama
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: benefited a lot from being seen as the tech candidate, right?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 3: That's not the same now, right? It's a much more
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: complicated relationship. Tech is just, in a lot of voters' views,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: just like a segment of business that they're quite skeptical
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: of and think is fucking them over. But you also
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: don't want to be– like I think our best candidate
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: is going to seem like they understand the future.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: And we have lost some of that like in the
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: post-Obama years as Democrats.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: No question.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: And so how do you sort of navigate that between
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: the anti-tech view, but also being seen like you understand
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: the benefits, but you're also very aware and willing to
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: stand up to these companies to protect people from them,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: I guess, is the sort of territory we're trying to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: scope out.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: You've got to lean into the benefits, both in terms
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: of AI and robotics, right? If no one dies in
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: car crashes anymore, that'd be like the biggest public health
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: benefit in the history of our country, right? Robotics can
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: probably play a role around senior care and things. So
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: I think, yes, positives. But let's think about this. I mean,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: the dominant debate when you listen to, you know, Altman
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: and Musk and even like people like Sachs is, well,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: don't worry if all the wealth goes to the big companies.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: They don't even dispute it. They'll give it back. So
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: I'm a Democratic candidate, I would say in a room.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: Does anybody believe? Also, by the way, they're like the
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: meritocracy party. You know, Americans are about hard work and drive.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: Because what they're saying is you won't have to work anymore.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: The truth is some Americans don't want to work. A
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 4: lot of people want to work. They get a lot
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: of value and dignity out of it. It really fills
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: them up. And so I think they're really vulnerable here.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 4: And part of it is just putting the words back.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 4: Does anybody believe that all the wealth from AI should
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: go to five people? People say no. Well, the people
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 4: who are in charge now are saying that basically, yeah,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 4: it may all go to them. But don't worry. They're
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: going to give it back in a dividend form. And
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: you'll all get your piece and everything will be okay.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 4: Like it's ridiculous. And so I think there's a big
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: opening there. I think the skill to your point will
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: be to not seem like you're a troglodyte, that you
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: have your head focused on the future. You want to
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: make sure that the benefits of this are widely shared
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: and like healthcare is a great example of that. But,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: you know, we need to be careful about this in
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: terms of what adjustments we have to make and also
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: call bullshit on some of this economic model stuff that
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: just does not withstand any scrutiny at all.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: And then also you're going to need like what is
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: truly unsustainable is to be let AI do whatever it
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: wants but also we're going to eliminate all of our
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: green energy so that we're just like burning the planet.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: You have to like you need to comprehend like I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: know this seems hard in this media environment but you
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: need to comprehend strategy with nuance to actually do it.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: I think people like from the research I've seen, people
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: are both hopeful and skeptical and you got to kind
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: of be able to fit right in that category. Like
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: they have, they're very concerned about impacts on their energy
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: bill for sure. Impacts on their community from these giant
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: data centers being built, but also, you know, you know,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: see some benefits in some way, shape or form that
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: can make their life easier. So like we needed, we
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: need an actual policy. And if we are, if the
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: Republicans have no policy, I think they're where the Republican
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: governors have been better than us is they've been very
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: critical of and focused on the effect on kids. Yes.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: And we've just said, not that we're not focused on,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: we're just silent about it. Like we, Like we're just–
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: the party just seems to not have a lot to say.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: But maybe– there are lots of individual candidates saying individual things,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: but it's just not being heard by people because we
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: don't have the– it's not the most important people in
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: the party doing it. We don't have presidential candidates doing it.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: We don't have the megaphone to get it out. But
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: it feels– I think it feels to a lot of
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: voters and you see this show up is that we
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: don't have anything to say about it and that's a problem.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: I agree. We've got to fill that gap in a
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 4: smart way.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: All right, David Plouffe, I will let you go. This
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: has been fun and illuminating and alarming, as always. Good
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: to talk to you.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: That's how our discussions always go, Pfeiffer.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: Always have for almost 20 years now.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: See you.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: Before we go, some quick housekeeping. Friends of the Prod
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: subscribers should check out the brand new episode of my show,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: Polar Coaster. In our most recent episode, we broke down
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: Trump's abysmal polling on Greenland, and we looked at the
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: emerging Democratic primaries in the key states that are going
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: to decide the Senate majority. In addition to breaking down
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: the latest polls in news and politics, in every episode,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: I answer questions from our Friends of the Pod subscribers.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: You know, there are questions about individual races around the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: country too, my takes on reality TV, and everything in between.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 3: There's so many reasons to become a Friend of the Pod,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: from ad-free episodes of your favorite podcasts, to additional content,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: to our amazing Discord server, but I'll give you one more.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: Your subscription is the best way to support Crooked Media
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: as we try to build a progressive media response to
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: Fox News and all of the other right-wing media that
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: is threatening our democracy and bending truth in this country.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: To subscribe, go to crooked.com slash friends. Thanks to David
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: Plouffe for joining us. John, John, Tommy will be back
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: in your feet on Tuesday with another podcast.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: episode and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: America is a Cricket Media production. Our producers are David Toledo,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: Emma Illick-Frank, and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kelman, Carol Pelleve,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.