Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / SUMMER ‘23 - From blow-up mattress to 100,000 products a month, Hannah Dury shares her blueprint for building Peppermint Grove Australia and Moss St. Fragrances (Part 1)

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SUMMER ‘23 - From blow-up mattress to 100,000 products a month, Hannah Dury shares her blueprint for building Peppermint Grove Australia and Moss St. Fragrances (Part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  Hey, it's Dune here. I'm recording this quick message to let you know that over the next few weeks, we'll be playing some of our favorite episodes from the past year while I spend some time with my best friends and family back in my other home, London. If you missed these episodes the first time around, they are so good and packed with so much value. I know you're going to love them just as much as I did recording them. See you soon. Bye.
• 0:27
  This is Hannah Drury for Female Startup Club. Hello and welcome back to the show. It's Dune here, your host and hype girl in business. Every week we learn from seven, eight and nine figure female founders to understand their blueprint in business when it comes to money, marketing and mistakes.
• 0:56
  Women like Hannah Drury, the founder of Peppermint Grove Australia and Moss Street Fragrances. Hannah started this business in 2014 with an investment of $50,000, and now she's selling more than 100,000 products every single month.
• 1:13
  Today we're digging into Hannah's story of building this brand over the last 10 years, what she did when her 100% retail model in business went to zero overnight when the pandemic hit, and how she diversified her business by becoming her own manufacturer and perfumer.
• 1:31
  And while I've got you here, you might have noticed lately that I've been talking more and more about our newsletter. And that's because we've been crafting it to be an absolute go-to resource that delivers you weekly insights, resources, and extra content to keep you in the loop on all things women in business.
• 1:51
  like industry news you should know about, quick lessons and strategies that you can use today, up-to-date grants, and special opportunities we're offering to our newsletter subscribers, aka more features and spotlights on you. It's free to sign up. You just need to go to femalestartupclub.com and I would love to see you there. Let's jump into today's episode. This is Hannah for Female Startup Club.
• 2:19
  Hannah, hi. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. Me too. Me too. You're in Sydney, right?
• 2:31
  I am. I'm just in Sydney today. I'm not always in Sydney, but today is a Sydney day. So I'm excited. It's a Sydney day. Love a Sydney day. I usually start by asking people if they've had any wins or oh shit moments that they'd like to share, but it's only 11am. So I'm hoping you don't have any oh shit moments to share, but what's going on this morning? Yeah.
• 2:52
  None that we'll go into. None that we'll go into. This morning, I've been to the gym. I've had a coffee. I've had a whip with my marketing team, which has been great. I've checked into my office in Barrel because I'm usually there today and I'm not. So I'm sure they're missing my presence. Not. So yeah, gotten some stuff done. Hey, it's 11.30. I've been up for many hours. We've gotten a lot done, but just now just been preparing for our chat.
• 3:16
  Love that. Amazing. Cool. Well, we always like to get started by going back to where your entrepreneurial story starts. And this is circa, like, I'm thinking pre-2014 if you launched in 2014. So let's go back. Where do you like to start?
• 3:33
  Oh, look, let's start 10 years ago. I always had a passion for fragrance and homewares, home decor. It's my thing. You know, some people really, really love fashion. I do love fashion as well. But, you know, the home has always been a really important part of my life. I think I got that from my mother who loved entertaining and having people around. And I was always buying candles and diffusers. But I found that, you know,
• 3:58
  the actual candle and diffuser, yes, it was, you know, really functional and smelt really good, but it wasn't actually aesthetically pleasing. You know, I found myself
• 4:07
  hiding them behind books, you know, because they were sort of like an overly branded Vegemite jar thing, you know, with a big sticker on it. And it didn't actually add to the decor of the home. So I wanted to create a brand that was both A, functional, you know, smelt good, and B, aesthetically pleasing. So the entire brand came about because I wanted to develop a vessel, a really beautiful vessel that held the fragrances.
• 4:33
  So how do you do that? Well, I started sketching. Well, first, before we get into that point, because I want to dive into that, but before we get there, are you like working another job? Had you always known you were going to start a business or had you kind of just like, what was the life around you like at that point?
• 4:53
  Yeah, absolutely. So I was out of uni. I'd done a three-year commerce degree. But while I did full-time uni, I also did full-time work. I come from a family of workers. We're workaholics. I love workaholics.
• 5:06
  working you know some people just getting off and going to work just makes me really happy a lot of things make me really happy I'm a pretty happy person but you know uni was fine but what really did it for me was working I loved the fact that you know all my friends at 18 you know they had to borrow money from mum and dad or they couldn't afford to buy whatever it was that they wanted and you know I was fully independent from the age of 18 um
• 5:29
  I moved out of home because I was working full time on a salary. You know, you look back and I was earning no money and I was always dirt poor because you spend every cent you have at that age. But it was a really great time. So I was actually working for a fragrance business at the time and I ended up working for them throughout my entire degree. And then when I finished, I went and worked for a marketing and communications agency. That was really interesting and quite a pivotal moment because it was interesting to be on
• 5:57
  agency side and working for a really wide range of clients. But I was often working with clients and I wasn't passionate about the product. And it just didn't give me that same energy and that same burst that it did when I was working for this fragrance brand, which I was really interested in and I was really passionate about it.
• 6:18
  So as I was working for the marketing communications agency, I just thought, oh my God, you know, why don't I just start my own thing? Now you start off small, you know, this, all this planning and, you know, this was at least a 12 month process. And I was absolutely working full time in my marketing communications job at the time, a month before I was ready to launch. So this is, you know, a year and a bit into the process. I moved back home with my mum and dad, which was very interesting given that,
• 6:48
  I'd lived out of home since I was 18 and I decided to start the business from their house. I don't think they knew that was really going to happen. I thought they probably just thought I was just moving in with them, but, you know, a bit of stock came with me too. And, you know, next minute I took it over. And are you thinking like you had quit your job and moved back home to pursue it full time or you were still thinking side hustle starts small? No, I... You were all in. Okay, okay.
• 7:17
  When we get to it, you'll learn why I was all in from that moment. And it was because I already had pre-orders. So I had 20 clients before I even launched. So I thought, you know what? Like I'm making the product. I'm being accounts. I'm being customer service. I'm being everything. I need to give this my all. And I was 24 at the time. I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have kids. I didn't have a partner. You know, it was, I thought if I'm going to do this, I'm going to give it my all. I've got nothing to lose. Right.
• 7:46
  um, you know, let's give it a crack. And I did. Oh my God. I love that. I love that energy so much. I have so many questions. The first two parts that I just want to cover before we get to those 20 orders was, so what was the product at this point? Like, have you already ordered from somewhere else or were you like hand making product? Like what was the kind of product piece? And, and then following that, how did you start getting the word out there to get those 20 clients? Yeah.
• 8:12
  Okay, so the first one was actually developing the product. So because I wanted to have a unique vessel, I needed to design the vessel. And I worked with a manufacturer in China to design that vessel. That was easily the most expensive part of what I did. It was the innovative part where, you know, you obviously have to have money behind you. Now, you've got to remember I'd been working since, you know, I was 18. And then I was, so at that point I'd been working for six years, but really I'd been working since I was 14.
• 8:40
  And, you know, I'd been saving and, you know, doing what I could, especially when I decided I really wanted to give this my all. I stopped going out and buying clothes and doing all that sort of stuff.
• 8:49
  I saved every dime. So I actually went over to China and I went to one of the big trade fairs there and I found a supplier for firstly my glassware and secondly for my packaging. So I designed the vessel, which obviously took a lot of time getting it right, making sure that it was safe for candle use, that it looked pretty, then obviously registering the designs, making sure that there was no IP issues and that when I did launch, nobody else could copy it. So that was probably the biggest part.
• 9:17
  And, of course, I had to order the stock, which, you know, takes 60 days to make, then 30 days on a container, what it used to be, 30 days door to door, China to Sydney. 30 days now, we wish. Yeah, exactly. And so that stock was obviously delivered. And I set about making...
• 9:34
  my first batch, which was obviously very interesting. Now there was obviously trial and testing. And in that 12 month period, I didn't just wax and wax in a jar and, you know, see what happened. There was a lot of testing that went into that, but yeah, it was all pretty backyard. It was all being done out of my parents' home. What was that? I mean, I love to ask about the money piece. You, you mentioned you had your savings and that's how you're funding the business. What did you put in to get that kind of first inventory, that trip to China, the R and D and getting you to launch with product?
• 10:03
  Yeah, it was about $50,000, you know, and that's just the start of it. We'll go into my favourite topic, which is cash flow a little bit later and how growing businesses absolutely eat money. Yes, we love the cash flow. Yeah, but it was $50,000 to launch.
• 10:22
  And at that time, like, had you thought about, you know, product-based businesses, they require a lot of working capital, as we know. Were you thinking about the process of fundraising? Was that even something on your radar? Or were you just thinking, like, I'm going to invest in my own business? Like, what was your mindset around money in the bigger picture? Yeah.
• 10:41
  Yeah, absolutely. Look, for me, I knew that if I sold my first lot of stock that I would at least break even. So I wasn't looking for investors or anything at that point of time. I mean, you start really small. Obviously, you hope that it gets bigger. But for me, it was just one step in front of the other. You know, obviously, if I got 20 orders, I was cheering at that time. So there wasn't really focus on on that next level and that scaling and that growth. For me, it was just all about getting my firstly, getting my product right.
• 11:10
  And then secondly, getting my customer base. So do you want me to talk about how I got my first customers? Yes, I absolutely want to talk about how you got your first customers. Let's go.
• 11:22
  Okay, let's do it. So I started off as a wholesale business. So I just sold my brand to retailers. I really only went online when COVID hit. So when I developed my brand, I was developing it for all of these beautiful retail and homeware stores. So what I did is I wanted to directly engage with my consumer throughout that new product development phase. So I went into these stores, stores that I knew before.
• 11:49
  would, you know, that I wanted my brand in. And I actually just spoke with them, showed them the drawing, showed them the fragrances, showed them the packaging design, and I got their feedback.
• 12:00
  I think in this day and age, people are so scared, and I speak with a lot of people who are in those development phases, and they're really scared to show their product unless it's perfect. But I think my biggest piece of advice is directly engage with the consumer. It's all very well to show mom and dad or to show your friends, but are they the ones who are actually reaching their hand into their pocket and going to give you money for this?
• 12:24
  Not necessarily. So I developed relationships with retailers and got their feedback throughout the whole process. And it was pretty brutal. I've got to be honest. I've looked like what? Oh, just no, we wouldn't stop that. No, that's ugly. No, that's polarizing. No, my customer's not interested in that. No, that doesn't go with the decor of my shop. And you've got to take each bit of feedback with a grain of salt because every single retailer, they're small businesses too. And they've got a different customer base.
• 12:53
  But listening to that overall feedback was amazing. I actually found the other day the first packaging designs. I didn't launch with it because, remember, I got that feedback throughout the development phase, which is the best time to get feedback because you haven't spent a bloody fortune on stock that then they go, oh, you know what, if you'd done that, it would have been better. And I actually ended up going with something completely different. I paid it back completely because of this feedback that I got.
• 13:21
  So I developed these relationships and, you know, you know, they got used to me coming into their store. It's probably a little bit annoying, but I've got no shame. So whatever, you know, and I feel like even today that that's still relevant, like 100 percent relevant. That's still the blueprint. Yes, we're 10 years on, but like going into a store and just talking to the owner or talking to the buyer is like the step listening to their feedback and then getting on the shelves.
• 13:48
  100% and you'd be shocked at the amount of people who do not do it. Oh, no, it's not ready. I don't want to show them. They love the fact that you're involving them. These are the people who have these beautiful retail stores. They are your eyes and ears directly engaging with the end consumer. These are amazing people who know what their customer wants.
• 14:08
  So I spoke with them and they sort of, but, you know, maybe they got a soft spot for me. I don't know. But after that 12 month journey of speaking with them and showing them and, you know, developing a relationship with them, business is all about relationships. They ended up taking the brand. So there would have been, you know, 15, 20 people that I was doing this with.
• 14:28
  And after all of it, you know, they want to take the brand. They felt like they had been part of the journey and I'd listened to their feedback. So before I was even ready to launch, I had pre-orders. This is wholesale pre-orders of these people that I worked with. So that's why, of course, I needed this stock. I was all in, you know, making product for 20. And these are wholesale orders. This isn't one candle or
• 14:51
  you know, this is 30, 40, 50, 100 products. So I was, you know, or units, I should say, not different products necessarily, because I only launched with a very small range. So that's why I was able to move back home and go, yeah, I probably need to quit my full-time job and, you know, throw everything into it. So that was step one. Step two was like, okay, cool. I've got 15 to 20 wholesalers.
• 15:13
  I need more. So I literally took the product. I walked into other stores and I said, hey, my name's Hannah. Here's my brand. Do you want to have a look at it? And, you know, some people weren't that interested and that's fine, but I always left them with product. Burn it, touch it, feel it, experience it, take it home. Very important. And I'm going to go to the next slide.
• 15:33
  probably nine out of 10 times, they'd call me within a couple of days and say, you know what, this is a really nice product. And I'd say, yeah, cool. And the other thing I did was I did sale of return. So I said, look, if it doesn't sell, I will take the product back. There's absolutely no risk on your behalf. I needed these people to be the influencers. I didn't really know a thing about social media. I think Instagram was coming a thing then, but I'm not very cool. So
• 15:59
  I didn't really do Instagram, but they were my modern day influencers who were actually using their beautiful stores to showcase my product. And then what happened was that other retailers, because let's be honest, everybody looks at what everyone else is doing, they would see it in their store and go, oh.
• 16:17
  oh yeah, you know, Peppermint Grove, I'd love to stock you as well. So it was all about getting it in the eight stores of each state and, you know, slowly worked my way around and then the rest would follow suit. They'd give you a call. So that acted as my marketing tool. And guess what? That's free. It was completely free. That's free. You were pounding the pavement. Yeah.
• 16:39
  Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So it sounds like in the early years, just to kind of like re-summarize, in the early years, majority of your time is walking in, getting that relationship, leaving product, making sure there is no barrier for someone to like engage in a relationship with you and then getting the product in that store and just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. How many stores did you get into based on that strategy? Yeah.
• 17:07
  I would say easily well over 50%.
• 17:11
  well over 50. So by the time, so I launched in early October, so October of 2014, I started working on the brand in 2013. And then the following February, so February of 2015, I did a trade show. So the Gift and Homewares trade shows, they're on in February, they're on in August. I went and I did a trade show. And again, like some people were like, oh God, that annoying girl who's been, you know, visiting me for the last couple of months. But
• 17:40
  You know, I was a friendly face. They'd come and say hello. But, you know, my stand was busy because people, you know, the product was unique. You know, it was a beautiful piece of home decor. It had a lid that was really functional that, you know, people could use as a coaster, whereas other brands weren't doing that yet. So, you know, my hair stand was busy and I think
• 18:03
  People are attracted to something's busy or what's going on there and then they come over. So from there I got another 70 retailers. So literally I had a hundred and ten retailers within six months of starting my business. Is it just you at this point? Yes, it's literally just me. It's literally just me and then within nine months I think I I do recall you know I had some friends in the industry and I'd gotten a page in Elle magazine or something and
• 18:30
  And Maya saw the advertisement in Elle magazine and they gave me a call and said, hey, we'd really love to chat with you. We're really looking for a new home fragrance brand. And I thought, oh my gosh, like this is incredible. So I flew to Melbourne and it was just me and my box of samples. Like there was no, there was not a fancy presentation. Like it was literally just me and a cute little candle.
• 18:56
  And I walked in there, it was about seven people in the room. I thought, oh my goodness, what have I got myself into? But I just chatted. I chatted about my passion for the brand, why it was unique, what we were doing, da, da, da. And, you know, they rang me two days later and said, look, we'd really love to take a chance on you. And that was another huge turning point for the business. Yeah. Like how many stores are we talking at that point that it launched into? They put it into all, so they had 65 at the time and they launched it into all 65.
• 19:25
  So you can imagine, though, they're working four to six months out. But I thought, oh, my God, one, I need to make sure I have the stock. I need to have the infrastructure. Like I need to have the capital EDI. Yeah, exactly right. And that's when you start going, oh, my God, like how the hell am I going to make this thing work? But also I needed people. And also I needed a factory. Yeah.
• 19:48
  So, I could no longer. Yes. Do you want me to go there? We want to go there. Yes. Okay. We can't be working out of mum and dad's anymore. Not if I want to remain their child that they really love. But also, you know, when you start ordering that level of stock, you need pallets and, you know, you can't be delivering that to suburbia. It's not going to work.
• 20:09
  So I needed to get a factory, just a small factory, a small space. I'm sure we all know what Sydney prices are like. Even if you go out, you know, to Western Sydney to factories, they are still so expensive. So I ventured out a little further to a beautiful place, the Southern Highlands. We say Barrow, but the industrial area is called Braemar. And I found this little space in Braemar, 110 kilometres away, but I could afford it.
• 20:37
  Like what's the price at that point? So it's literally, it was a third of the price per square metre as opposed to Sydney factories. Like I cannot remember the exact amount. I got like a short-term lease. I was actually, half of it was being used for storage and then the other half I sort of had is this factory space. I literally got a demountable and put it in. That was my office. Maya thought I was joking when I told them like I'm literally working out of a demountable and sometimes sleeping.
• 21:05
  What's a demountable? What's that? It's like a temporary office thing. It's like, you know how if you're, you might be building something on a work site and you see they sort of dump those cube looking things. Yeah. So I was literally working on this. So this is 110 kilometers away, right? I have no bloody money. Like every single dollar, I'm not paying myself every single dollar. I probably, let's be honest, had to borrow some money from mom and dad. Like, you know, it was, it was quite desperado, but
• 21:31
  whatever I had nothing to lose and I was having a hell of a lot of fun along the way you know all of the wins of getting a store you're jumping out like it was just so fun
• 21:39
  So I moved into there. Oh, my God. I knew absolutely no one. It was 110 kilometres away. So that's like 220 kilometres of driving a day. But I just got a blowout mattress and occasionally slept there. Definitely was not part of the arrangement. But, you know, whatever, I was going early and leaving late. And occasionally I treat myself to a room at the pub or a hostel and
• 22:04
  Um, and that was what it was like for like the first two years. It was absolute chaos. It was great. Sounds so exciting. I love a startup story like that. Yeah. You know, when Maya specifically placed the order, you know, a purchase order, I'm sure that requires a lot of upfront capital. Were you just kind of funding those orders through the profits made originally, or did you need to find more money? Yeah.
• 22:31
  Yeah, exactly right. So it was literally about putting all of the money that I was making from those previous orders, just using every single dollar went back into stock.
• 22:42
  I also needed to then find staff. Now, the other reason I decided to go rural was because there were government incentives for hiring staff in those areas because it was considered rural. So I went to these government agencies and they actually gave me staff and, you know, they...
• 23:01
  uh, the government, oh, it was like a 60, 70% rebate. So they didn't actually cost me a lot of money. That's amazing. Yeah. So that was the other great thing about being rural as well. And from there, it started to grow. And as we get a bit later in the piece, I did have to get an investor in. It was just impossible. Like I could not scale like I needed to remembering as well. This is not an e-commerce business. This is a wholesale business. I'm not getting the cash up front for those orders.
• 23:30
  I'm getting it 30, 60, 90 days EOM. And with the life cycle of the product, you know, I'm buying the stock nine months prior that I'm not going to get paid for for nine to 12 months. So it just became impossible and I did get an investor in. And, you know, it's the best investment they've ever made or so I like to tell them. But they tell me too. And, you know, and the rest is history. But I can tell you I am still cash-strapped all the time. Growing businesses eat money.
• 24:00
  I thought when I got to five mil revenue that things would say, I thought when I got to 10 mil, no, your problems get bigger, your bills get bigger, you know, that's just what happens. But I've been committed to putting every damn dollar back into that business. Obviously, I pay myself a wage and I pay my staff really well and we invest, but I don't, I've never taken a profit share ever. And I have no plans to. I'd rather put it back into the business and reinvest.
• 24:26
  So for you, I want to get to the point of, you know, 2020, circa 2020. So in that time between the first two years in business, getting to 2020, there's a bit of a gap there. What are the key moments that lead you to that investment? Let's talk about the investment and then let's fast forward to 2020.
• 24:44
  Yeah. So with the investment, it just got to the stage where, you know, Maya acted as a huge jump for, again, other retailers seeing the brand and I just couldn't afford to buy the stock. So
• 24:58
  I was actually through one of my retailers that I ended up meeting. They're very much a silent investor, but I met them. They were really interested in what the business was doing. They were shocked at what it was doing in, you know, 18 months, two years. And they decided to give me a lump sum of money for a portion of the business. And they've given me that money and they, you know, I send them obviously through all of the results or my CFO does every quarter and they approve the budget and they approve the budget.
• 25:27
  But other than that, they've really been a silent partner and their investment is what's literally allowed me to go to that next level in terms of scaling the business. There's just no way I could have afforded to do it otherwise. So, sorry, where was the next part? Are we going to COVID now? We can go wherever you want. We can go to COVID. We can kind of, you know, hit on the milestones that got you there, whatever you like to go forward with. Yeah.
• 25:54
  Look, I think maybe we'll go to when I had to go online because a huge part of what I was doing was that I was a wholesale business. And when COVID hit, and by this stage, I had 600, 700, 800 retailers, probably more, but also I'd started operations overseas. I'd set up a distribution centre in the UK. I was operating in 14 countries using distributors, not necessarily distributing myself specifically.
• 26:22
  The UK, I decided to do it a little differently. So when COVID shut the world down, my business literally down overnight. And we're talking department stores who had ordered stock six months out for Mother's Day. It was March that we shut down. Mother's Day was in May, my second biggest period of the year. I am in gifting like that is my thing. I essentially lost everything overnight. And I didn't lose it. I nearly did.
• 26:50
  I was walking around my factory and I was like, oh, my God, like this is it. This is the moment. And it was then that I realised that ethanol is a huge part of what I do with the diffusers. And as well, I also had all of these beautiful vessels. And I thought, my God, I'm just going to.
• 27:07
  make hand sanitizer, let's see. But of course, I didn't have an outlet. So I built this dodgy WooCommerce site literally overnight. I am not IT savvy, as you learned before the call when we had all these tech issues for something as basic as a call. And I made hand sanitizer and I sold it on this website.
• 27:26
  Well, I did $70,000 in the first hour. The website crashed. I had, yep, I had no idea because nobody could get hand sanitizer. So did you put it up on social media or something? Or like you emailed your retailers? Yeah, no, retailers were shut. I couldn't use that. But as in like to let them know? Like how did you get the word out? Yeah, so literally put it up on social media. So I literally posted on social media. All of my friends were like, my friends doing hand sanitizer, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone needed sanitizer. Yeah.
• 27:55
  Yes, as well, we told our retailers some were open, like things like, you know, pharmacies. So we have some pharmacies. They were open. A lot of the gift stores obviously weren't allowed to be open. And it literally sold out like in an hour. And at that moment, I went, oh, my God, like, I think I'm actually going to be able to keep the lights on here.
• 28:13
  So that was a huge moment, but also introduced me to the world of e-commerce where, oh my God, you put a product up, someone buys it and the money is in your bank account straight away. This is a whole new world. So that was an amazing moment and a
• 28:29
  It was only within two to three months that suddenly the home fragrance, home decor market went absolutely gangbusters because everyone was suddenly at home. They weren't spending money on travel and fancy restaurants. They were like, you know what? My house is a sanctuary and I need to be calm. Invest in self-care. Yeah, exactly. And that was amazing. So we managed to build a proper place.
• 28:50
  website, not myself, Shopify expert. And we entered the world of e-commerce and it's been a very steep learning curve. I've learned it's a little bit like building a house. There's just constantly bits and pieces and things that needed to be added. And I've now got a whole e-commerce team and a digital agency and everything.
• 29:08
  all of these amazing things. But it was a big moment for the business. E-commerce is now still only 5% to 10% of the business because it's only, we're two or three years in and suddenly we're directly engaging with the end consumer. So even social media, we didn't really have a big social media following because we weren't, right?
• 29:29
  really marketing towards the end consumer. We were more focused on our retailers. So that's been a steep learning curve as well. But together, the two are absolutely dynamite. So the manufacturing, the wholesaling,
• 29:44
  And then obviously the e-commerce as well. It's been really cool and made the business jump through the roof. It's been great. Yeah, I read something crazy. You're on track to like 40 million this year or something bananas. Yeah, absolutely. So I've now got a couple of different brands. I now manufacture for a lot of brands out there because a lot of people don't actually have their own manufacturing facility. And when you invest all of this money in infrastructure and infrastructure,
• 30:12
  you know, I've now got probably over 15,000 square meters of factories, you know, across Australia. So, you know, you need to keep those machines pumping. You've got all the staff. So when there's downtime, why wouldn't I manufacture for other people? So, you know, people are shocked I make a lot of my competitors' products, you know. Yeah, that's amazing. You white label for the competitor. A hundred percent. It makes sense. What percentage of the business is that?
• 30:38
  Oh, the white label. So I'll just go into the third part. The third part is that I vertically integrated into producing my biggest raw material, which is the actual fragrance. So I now have a huge perfumery, which is basically a compounding lab. It's a dream come true. Yeah. And I'm basically vertically integrating into producing as much as I can of that supply chain. So I
• 31:04
  look, the brands are still by far, you know, the biggest part of what I do. Contract manufacturing would be the smallest. And then this perfumery, which provides both my brands with its fragrance, the ones I white label for, and then also just the industry. You look at cleaning products, there is fragrances in everything. Like I'm now providing huge cleaning companies and
• 31:27
  you know, home fragrance companies, there are so many beautiful, amazing fragrance perfume brands that are launching onto the market. They're not actually making their fragrance, of course not, they're using a supplier. So I've now sort of, you know, got these three businesses that all integrate really beautifully with each other. And, you know, it's a really cool spot to be in, because no one else in Australia in my industry is doing that.
• 31:51
  How did you think to do that? Like, how did you kind of have that light bulb moment? Because I feel like that's so such a clever diversifying change slash not really a pivot, but, you know, adding on. How did you actually hit that light bulb moment?
• 32:08
  It was during COVID and I hate to bring up COVID because everyone's sick of hearing it, aren't they? But there were huge issues with supply during that time. So I hated that my growth was being restricted because my suppliers couldn't supply what I needed. And I was like, this is really annoying. And as you've probably gathered, I'm quite fast and I do things, you know, if I've got an idea, thank God I've got an amazing team who now go, okay, hand pipe down, like that's a beautiful dream, but let's,
• 32:36
  revisit that in nine months because I want to make everything happen yesterday. But it really frustrated me and I went, hang on, like this is a risk to my business. Like, you know, and the biggest thing was the fragrance because obviously they had staffing issues. The whole industry went gangbusters. So, and you know, they couldn't get their raw materials because shipping of, you know, was 90, 120 days, blah, blah, blah. And I went, this is a huge risk. But I also had a look and went,
• 33:03
  I'm also spending millions of dollars on fragrance a year. What if I could actually make the fragrance myself?
• 33:11
  And then it just so happened that a perfumer was out of a job and gave me a call and it kind of snowballed. The biggest issue is that setting up a perfumery, oh my God, you need to have the capital. But because with COVID, I'd ended up doing really, really well financially. I had the money to do it. I also as well ended up getting a loan facility. So I used debtor financing for my brand's.
• 33:40
  But I then also was able to, because of the way the business had grown, had access to a facility that I could draw down on. So they gave me a lump sum that I could draw down as and when I needed it. I needed the whole thing straight away. And that is what allowed me to do it. Wow. That's so interesting. What a cool story. It is cool. It is cool.
• 34:05
  I'm wondering like, actually, I've got two questions. So we'll stick on the kind of e-commerce pathway just for a second longer. What is shifting the needle for you now when you think about e-commerce as a channel? Look, I think...
• 34:19
  For us, e-commerce, and I'm going to be the first one to say that I'm not an expert in e-commerce. I'm lucky enough to have an amazing team who do run the e-commerce side of things for me. I think our biggest thing is that obviously the industry is really, really saturated, like the candle, the fragrance industry. It's now, you know, it's really boomed in the last three or four years. So it's becoming really saturated and, you know, it's becoming a lot more expensive to play in that space and be competitive effectively.
• 34:48
  in the online world. So that's probably been a huge thing for us. And the other issue, I guess, with online for us is that, you know, if people don't know the brand, they need to smell and experience, you know, the product I'm really waiting for, like, all of those, you know, techie, smart guys to come up with scratch and sniff for online. You know, I'm just waiting. Surely it's going to be coming for us soon.
• 35:14
  But what it's allowed my business to do is just it's allowed me to release a whole lot of cash. You know, I suddenly have cash for products, which then, you know, has just really increased my cash flow because I'm getting money overnight as opposed to in 30, 60, 90 days. So despite it becoming more expensive and being a really saturated space to play in.
• 35:34
  It's also, though, self-funding in that I'm getting that money straight away. And I guess for you, it's very much a case of you have the retail presence, you have people who have bought your product for years and years and years, and then they find you on e-commerce and they come back around. So it's really two things that work in harmony with each other.
• 35:53
  100% love that. Yeah. When you think about your journey, you've been building this business for a decade now. Do you think about an exit or are you thinking long-term still loving the business? Like how are you kind of thinking about, I guess where I'm going with this is like, it's a long time to be in this business. And I know you have three now. So of course it still adds a bit more like fun and diversity to what you're doing every day by building multiple things at once. But yeah. Yeah.
• 36:22
  What do you think about your long-term plan and the long-term vision? Yeah. Do you know what? That's a really interesting question. And it's an interesting question because I constantly move the goalposts. You know, people ask me this question and depending when you ask me, um,
• 36:37
  you know, I could have a different answer because I think when you are geared as I am and, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, you're constantly moving those goalposts and you hit those goals and you think, okay, great. Now I'm sort of going to slow down a bit or now I'm going to do this or that. And then you go, oh no, I should start a new business because I basically got a startup business again with this perfumery. So,
• 37:00
  So for me, it's just continuing to grow and scale, invest in the business, invest in my staff. I'm so passionate about my team. They are amazing. The business is absolutely nothing without the amazing people that make it go around every day. Am I open to an exit? Absolutely. Who is it? I think you'd be crazy not to be. I'm not married to the business. I've got 150 other things that I want to do.
• 37:27
  So I'm not scared of that and I'm not scared of someone wanting to buy me out. Hey, give me a call, you know, drop my hand. You know, I'm always really open to it. But for now I'm focused on one foot in front of the other and I think I've been given a whole new lease because I love that start-up phase. It's such a wild time. Now that I've got the mature business, which is Peppermint Grove and Moss Street and the brands, and then I'm back in start-up world with the perfumery, I'm going
• 37:56
  It's kind of given me that new lease that I needed because it's total mayhem. And I operate really well in organized chaos is what I call it. So that's where we are for now. Amazing. I love that. I love that. For anyone who is in the fragrance kind of industry, whether it's perfume or candles or diffusers and products like that, what is your key piece of advice for folks just starting out in the early phase?
• 38:27
  I think my first piece of advice is be really, really sure about who your customer is. Who is it that is going to buy your brand or buy their, you know, buy your product? It is a really, really saturated market now. So what is going to be your point of difference? What is going to make someone put their hand in their pocket and give you money for something?
• 38:51
  So that would be my first thing. Don't do what everyone else is doing. You know, it's been done. You know, we're not 10, 15 years ago when the industry was still quite new. It's quite a mature industry now. So you need to have that point of difference. So that would probably be my advice. Engage directly with your customer and get that feedback and be really clear on who your customer is. Love that. Love it.
• 39:22
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 39:46
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 40:09
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.
• 40:25
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 40:49
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 41:12
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show, and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.