Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 01 - Gina Miller on speaking up, the gender investment gap and why women need to stop saying sorry

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01 - Gina Miller on speaking up, the gender investment gap and why women need to stop saying sorry · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:02
Hello, I'm Doctor Louise Neeson and welcome to my podcast.
0:06
I'm AGP, menopause specialist and founder of the free Balance
0:11
app. My mission?
0:13
To break the taboos around Women's Health and hormones,
0:16
shining a light on the issues we've been too afraid to talk
0:19
about. From contraception, sex and
0:22
testosterone to menopause related addictions and beyond,
0:26
we're covering it all. I'll also be joined by experts
0:30
and inspiring guests, sharing insights and real stories, as
0:34
well as answering your questions and tackling the topics that
0:37
matter to you the most. Today on the podcast, I've got
0:42
Gina Miller, who is founder of Money She and cofounder of SCM
0:46
Direct. We've had the most amazing
0:49
conversation about how to be kind, how to stand up for
0:52
yourself, how to look after others, and about the financial
0:56
crisis, actually of being a menopausal woman.
1:02
So Dina, I'm really excited to have you here actually in the in
1:06
the podcast studio as well. There's so much I want to talk
1:09
about that we're going to have to try and calm it down because
1:13
I'm really excited. There's so much that you've done
1:16
in your life, which is incredible, and you've got so
1:18
much more that you're doing. Oh yes, absolutely not finished
1:21
yet? No, absolutely.
1:23
But one of the first things I want to hear about really is
1:26
what keeps you going? What keeps that bar in the
1:29
belly? What keeps you getting off in
1:31
the morning? It's interesting because I
1:33
always sort of reflect and think, is it nature and nurture?
1:35
And I've come to the conclusion there's a bit of both.
1:37
I was always this really disagreeable 3 year old at
1:40
school who, you know, never took anything from the teachers
1:43
always why, why, why? It's always been part, I think
1:46
of my personality, but I also think it's the way I was brought
1:49
up. You know, I was very fortunate
1:51
to grow up with the needs of parents who instilled in me my
1:54
father was an activist lawyer and which now I think we should
1:57
celebrate, not denigrate. And he always said that, you
2:01
know, you never know what's going to happen down the road.
2:03
So we help everyone anywhere and you speak up for others.
2:07
And that was something he told us when we were very little
2:10
children. So, you know, it's just having
2:12
that. My mother was an eco warrior, I
2:14
think before the term was even invented.
2:16
And she was just everything has to be saved and looked after.
2:20
Everything is precious. She was also a botanist.
2:23
And so the love of nature and protecting and, you know,
2:26
everything that's around us both physically, mentally, but
2:30
emotionally and from an environmental point of view are
2:32
things that I grew up with. And that's why I think, you
2:35
know, we underestimate, I think we have the restorate motherhood
2:39
and parenthood because it's what shapes a human being for the
2:43
rest of their lives. And it's so precious.
2:45
But it's it was a bit of both. And yeah, I've never been quiet.
2:49
I never intend to be. But also I never want to live
2:53
with regret. I don't want to look back and
2:55
regret not having done something or said something and thought,
2:58
oh, what if I So my view is that what are the chances of things
3:03
going wrong? It's about 5050.
3:05
Yes, no, maybe it's the answer you'll get back.
3:07
So why not ask? Why not speak up?
3:09
So I've got a very positive way and I don't really care what
3:13
people think of me. From a very young age, I decided
3:17
that I was going to, you know, other people's opinion were
3:19
never going to bring me down. It's really good though, isn't
3:23
it? But we, we spend so much of our
3:24
time wanting to be liked. And I think it's one of the
3:27
things that my two things when it comes to women, and I speak
3:30
to lots of young women and groups.
3:31
I say, don't ever knock on the door and say sorry is the first
3:34
word because that's almost the thing we we do.
3:37
We always say sorry. And I don't know what we're
3:39
apologising for. Yeah.
3:40
So don't say sorry is your first word when you walk on into a
3:44
room or knock on the door. And try not to live in regret.
3:47
Yeah, it's so important, isn't it?
3:49
Because I think so often things are misinterpreted and people
3:54
try and find faulting people a lot more than finding good
3:58
things. Well, especially if you're a
3:59
woman. Yeah, it is, isn't it?
4:01
Yeah. I think it's really interesting
4:03
'cause I, I get a bit of backlash what I do sometimes and
4:07
I think what would it be like if I was a man?
4:09
What would have happened? And like, I don't want to be a
4:12
man. I'm quite happy being a woman.
4:13
But I do think and I, I sort of also, you know, your work in the
4:16
past, would it have been more respectful if you're a man?
4:19
I think I've been told, you know, I started, I'm on my fifth
4:22
business right now, but I was told, you know, I started in the
4:24
city in 1996. And so often I've encountered,
4:28
you know, if only you had a male, your chief exec, or if you
4:32
did this or if you're a man, you would have been more successful.
4:35
I'm just thinking, no, you know, if from, you know, applying for
4:39
loans or venture capital, anything, everywhere you turn,
4:43
it's oh, if only you had a man with you.
4:45
You came into the meeting with a man.
4:46
And I still get, and women still get that today, 30 years on.
4:50
And I think it's really disappointing because it's not
4:53
just about equality and fairness, it's about missed
4:55
opportunities for us wider as a society.
4:58
We all would benefit if we if we pursued a much more equalist and
5:03
fair approach to looking after each other and supporting each
5:07
other. A 2° And you know, one of the
5:09
things that keeps me going is the injustice to women,
5:12
actually, the women not being listened to, the women not being
5:15
believed and the women that don't have a choice.
5:18
And so I guess like you, I am quite outspoken because I feel
5:23
like I'm speaking on behalf of others that are suffering.
5:25
Absolutely. And that's what I find can be
5:29
misinterpreted, that people think it's because I've got my
5:31
own agenda. My agenda is to help people.
5:34
It's incredible over the years when people said, So what do you
5:36
get out of this? And it's that there's sort of
5:39
disbelief that, well, nothing. Oh, I get asked to, you know,
5:42
I've, I've brought in texts into EU directives that's completely
5:45
changed. The wave saving, investing fees
5:48
are disclosed and everyone says, So what do you get out of it?
5:51
I'd got nothing out of it. And then who paid for it?
5:54
Well, I'm fortunate enough to be successful in my business life
5:57
and I use my money to give back to the society that's enabled my
6:00
success. And I can't think of anything
6:03
greater to do with it. But it's always so I can't.
6:05
What? What?
6:05
You're not getting anything. And.
6:07
And there's a suspicion. Yeah, around that.
6:10
How can you possibly be doing this?
6:12
Because you think it's right? Yeah.
6:14
But rather than saying, isn't that wonderful?
6:16
Yeah, it is. It's something really an
6:18
interesting cultural dilemma here in the UK.
6:20
Yes, because actually when I've worked in Australia or Europe or
6:25
South America, when my first daughter was born, I really
6:29
became a lioness through her because she was starved of
6:32
oxygen at birth. And at that time there was no
6:35
statements or provision in schools.
6:38
So my first fight was actually getting texts in the 1996
6:41
Education Act, which meant that all schools had to then provide
6:45
special needs and governors had to have that.
6:47
So that was my first fight because I felt it was so wrong.
6:50
Why wasn't every single child having that?
6:53
You got it if you had money and you could go and see a
6:55
specialist and a doctor and you go but ordinary, you know, every
6:59
single child deserves, every parent deserves to have that
7:02
access to support in schools. So unfortunately things are
7:05
going backwards. But you know, that was my first
7:07
fight and it was, I remember in the back of that work and that
7:12
campaigning, I then came across things like, you know, out of
7:15
date formula being sent to third world countries or you know, the
7:19
drinks that were things like baby Ribena.
7:22
I don't know if you remember, I had so much sugar in it, it was
7:25
rotting all teeth. So I started the spin off of my
7:28
advocacy tends to come from my own experiences and what I know
7:32
and understand emotionally and intellectually.
7:35
And so I started doing all and people were like, but why are
7:38
you doing that? I was like.
7:40
Because I've just come across something that's wrong.
7:42
Yeah. It's that simple.
7:44
Yeah, I totally get it. I mean, I'm a very honest
7:46
person. Like I've just been brought up
7:49
never to lie because it you always get to find out it's not
7:52
It's also. God carrying a lie is.
7:54
Exhausting, terrible. It's so hard.
7:56
So I am really honest. But I am also like that annoying
7:58
2 year old. But why?
7:59
But why? But why?
8:01
And having an inquisitive brain is not a bad thing.
8:03
Oh, it's. Curiosity is one of the best.
8:05
Things but there's a lot of people that don't have any
8:08
curiosity and especially in professional medicine lots of
8:11
people what they're told you know when they qualify is what
8:14
they'll continue practicing. They don't have this
8:16
professional curiosity. So when you've got someone
8:18
challenging asking, but why does this happen?
8:21
Why is this? They get very scared almost and
8:24
they find it very awkward with some people are asking
8:27
questions. I go back to culture and also an
8:29
education because in education we're sort of told that this is
8:33
the way we're putting in boxes. And I think, you know, there's a
8:35
lot of changes that need to happen.
8:37
And one of the biggest for me is education.
8:40
We have an education system that doesn't really promote curiosity
8:44
and asking questions and thinking outside of the box, you
8:47
know, and as we move into the age of everything being
8:50
available online, actually those skills becoming more important.
8:55
And I think, you know, our entire education system needs to
8:57
be rethought because what happens to children is we have
9:02
such curiosity, but then it's educated out of them when they
9:06
enter the educational system. And that to me is a failing.
9:11
So we have to encourage curiosity and debate and free
9:15
speech and all the things that we're talking, which was I think
9:17
are incredible because in a world it becomes more chaotic
9:21
and more uncertain, you need those skills more than ever.
9:25
Yes. So I think we're at a point
9:27
where we really, really have to think about encouraging those
9:29
skills. Yeah.
9:30
In individuals and in young people.
9:32
So the negativity that you've had in the backlash that you've
9:35
had is in my way of thinking has actually made you stronger and
9:39
more determined to do more to speak up for those people that.
9:43
Yeah, I mean, I think I have a very probably a stringent way of
9:47
thinking. It's not.
9:48
It's not. I just the people when when I
9:50
did my court cases and it was so I could have just got angry
9:55
because of the threats to myself.
9:56
My family, you know, we were looked after by terrorist squad
9:59
for two years. You know, my children were there
10:01
were threats for them. They were going to be taken and
10:05
it's because the system, the status quo, were saying that I
10:08
was fighting Brexit. They didn't understand that what
10:11
I was fighting was for our constitution because if any
10:15
Prime Minister can put themselves above the law, they
10:18
can take away our rights without Parliament.
10:20
And that's such a so, you know, they could decide if I had lost
10:23
my cases, it would set a precedent because we don't have
10:26
a written constitution that any Prime Minister could close down
10:29
parliament or bypass parliament and bring in anything
10:32
conscription for 16 year olds or abortions being illegal.
10:36
No workplace having to bring in anything to do with DI, which we
10:39
might see the way the political landscapes going.
10:43
No rights for women yet all of those things.
10:45
A Prime Minister could just wake up and they would have gotten
10:47
away with it. So that fundamental being a
10:50
Prime Minister in check was what I was fighting for in both my
10:54
cases, but that was never reported that way.
10:57
So that could have got me very angry.
10:59
But I just thought, look, I'm going to carry on doing what I'm
11:02
doing. But I've always got this thing
11:04
that those who want to shut me up and hate me, if I stay quiet,
11:08
they win. Yes.
11:10
So why would I allow them to win?
11:12
Yes. I'm not going to let their
11:13
voices trump mine. Yeah.
11:14
When I know what I'm doing. Yeah.
11:17
Is for the protection of others. Yeah.
11:19
And with that truth, you spoke about truth.
11:22
Yeah. It's that truth that drives me
11:24
on. Yeah.
11:25
But there are days when I go home and cry my eyes out and.
11:28
Oh, so you're. Human.
11:30
And I hold my children and I just think, why am I doing?
11:34
And then I look at them and I think I'm doing.
11:36
It's this for you? Totally.
11:38
Because I don't want them. You know, I also have this
11:40
strong sense of stewardship as parents and as they'll generate,
11:43
you know, we should leave the world in a better place.
11:45
We don't. Well, I don't want my children
11:47
to have to pick up all the pieces because I stayed quiet or
11:50
I was too cowardly or I worried about somebody would say
11:53
something nasty about me. Well, fine.
11:55
You say whatever you want. You don't love me.
11:58
I don't care about you. Why?
12:00
Why would I bother If you decide that I'm a, you know, whatever
12:03
name you want to call. Me.
12:04
There were lots of times where I could easily stop doing.
12:08
I'm doing. But then I look at the children
12:10
and they are the ones that say no you, you're helping future
12:13
generations. You're allowing us to have a
12:15
choice. We're talking about hormones in
12:17
a way that we've never thought about them before, never learned
12:19
about them at school. It's not just helping us, it's
12:22
helping older people, everyone else, but it is the people that
12:26
you love are the people that. No, Yeah, absolutely.
12:29
I mean, you know, when when I fought for exposing a lot of the
12:32
RIP offs that led to the financial crisis, You know, I
12:34
was taking on the city, the regulator, the FCA, you know,
12:37
government, the treasury. And there were lots of days when
12:40
I wanted to give up. And my kids were the ones who
12:42
and my husband were the ones who said you've got to carry on.
12:45
Yeah. But it's interesting because my
12:46
eldest daughter, who has special needs, her academic age, if you
12:50
like, traditionally is about 5 or 6, but she has her EQ, her
12:54
emotional intelligence is quite extraordinary.
12:57
And she sees things in such black and white.
12:59
And quite often she's the one who'll say things to me, which I
13:02
think, Oh my gosh, because she's not socialized into responding
13:06
the way that the rest of us are, quite unconditioned.
13:10
And so she'll say to me, when I remember very distinctly that
13:13
when the second case with Boris Johnson, I thought, why me
13:16
again, Why do I have to do it? And then the IT came to my
13:19
realization that because I'd done the 1st court case, I
13:22
actually was the only person who had what's called locus, I had
13:25
the right to bring the second one.
13:27
So it actually happened. So you needed?
13:28
Yeah. And she said, I remember she's
13:30
saying, Mummy, you'd be really unhappy if you didn't do it.
13:33
And I thought because I was, I always try and explain to them,
13:37
you know, when they were very little, I've always tried to
13:40
explain them what I'm doing. And I thought maybe not now, but
13:44
she's right, I would be. And she's just, she has this
13:47
clarity. And it's really interesting
13:49
because I'm, I'm sort of part Peruvian in, in South America.
13:52
Is that when I've done this? Because I love history and
13:55
reading about other cultures and their spiritual journeys.
13:58
And the Incas believe that they had precesses of the sun.
14:02
But in today's society, most of them would have had special
14:04
needs because they stole them as having heightened sight and
14:07
being closer to God. Isn't that extraordinary?
14:09
It's. Very interesting there so that.
14:11
Idea of being, you know, not being clouded and being like the
14:15
rest of us was celebrated. The new of diversity and being,
14:19
you know, different was a celebration.
14:21
It wasn't a limitation. She's a different way of
14:23
thinking about things, isn't it? And so much I think in culture
14:26
now is, is trying to normalise this will be the same and, and
14:29
for women to be be the same and, and be good and to be.
14:33
Yes, yeah. I'm definitely not a good girl.
14:35
No, well, I'm not either. That's fine.
14:38
But, but so much for women, especially when we think about
14:41
hormones, hormone changes, he's just stripped Loads of women
14:45
come to my clinic and say, this isn't me, I've lost my identity.
14:49
I don't know who I am. Absolutely.
14:51
And I really, I worry about women a lot.
14:54
I worry about the impact on home, but I also worry about
14:56
their impact in the workplace. And we know that around 10% of
15:00
women give up their jobs in the workplace and the commonest
15:03
symptoms are memory problems, anxiety and fatigue.
15:06
So we don't need fans on our desk.
15:08
We don't need different uniforms, but the perceptions
15:12
are so wrong that people think, oh, menopause, you can just get
15:16
through it. Don't worry, they're there.
15:18
And it a lot of people, it comes at the height of their career as
15:21
well. Funny.
15:22
So I'm mine was 10 years ago and I distinctly remember speaking
15:27
at a conference on financial services, a massive great big
15:30
conference. And I walked on stage and I was
15:33
always known for wearing trousers, even though most of
15:35
the women speaking at conference are told to wear dresses.
15:39
It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
15:41
But I always wore my trouser suit and I walked on stage being
15:44
menopausal and within 5 minutes, probably less, my entire back
15:49
was soaking wet and I could feel the sweat dripping down my back.
15:54
And I had to give this speech and then I knew I was going to
15:56
have to turn around and then walk across the stage to sit
15:59
down for the panel session. And I could feel it was just, I
16:02
was soaking and brain fog set in and I couldn't remember anything
16:07
I was supposed to say at this very technical conference.
16:10
And so I sort of looked at the room and it was, you know, 10
16:14
years ago. So we didn't have the screens
16:16
and, you know, all the clear screens.
16:17
And I didn't have an altar cure or anything like that.
16:20
And I had to, so you think, what do you do in that moment?
16:23
And I just asked for a glass of water, paused.
16:26
And I thought, I can't do the speech I was going to do because
16:29
I can't remember what I was going to do.
16:32
And there's a lot of technical people here who will ask me
16:35
questions in Q&A session. So I actually really stripped it
16:39
back and made a very simple speech.
16:41
And instead of sort of the 45 minute speech, I did 15 minutes.
16:45
And I said we've got a Q&A session, a panel session
16:48
afterwards, ask me any questions because I knew I'd be more
16:50
relaxed. Then.
16:51
But but I looked across and I could just see there were about
16:54
in this huge audience of like say 200, there were about 20
16:58
women. And I thought none of the men in
17:00
this audience are going to understand what I'm feeling
17:03
right now. And so I, I have to get through
17:06
this. And it's that anxiety and it's
17:08
just and that moment of terror. Almost.
17:11
It's really hard. And it's really disabling.
17:13
Yeah. And so that's the thing that
17:15
people don't realize is that it's not just the the medical,
17:18
it's it's so much you carry so much, it's exhausting and not
17:21
being supported and, you know, having a fan or having a day off
17:26
or working for none of those things are going to make it
17:28
better for you. But it has to be a cultural
17:30
change and not just a legal change.
17:33
This is the thing I've been saying for menopause for years
17:35
and decades now possibly is that, you know, when the quality
17:38
is acting came in and Health and Safety Act came in, it's all
17:42
very well. And then now the work that's
17:43
done by the ECHR on menopause of saying it has to be a cultural
17:47
change as well. The law is not enough.
17:49
Changing the law is not enough, it has to be a cultural change.
17:54
The same way that I've advocated for cultural change when it's
17:57
come to talking about domestic violence because I'm a survivor,
18:00
coercive behaviour, neurodiversity because my
18:03
daughter, you know, I've been campaigning about these things
18:05
for 30 odd years and the pace of change is so slow, so slow.
18:12
And what terrifies me, and I'm using the word terrified very
18:17
particularly, is that we are going backwards.
18:21
The data, these are not perceptions.
18:24
The data for the last three to four years are showing in all
18:28
these areas. We are going backwards.
18:30
And the rights and the advancements women have made and
18:35
advocates like myself have made and you have made, we are
18:38
actually going backwards. And young women are frightened
18:41
to speak up as well because of the pressure on them, because of
18:45
the backlash on social media. The toxicity of social media is
18:50
poisoning society in so many ways, but it is actually
18:54
poisoning when it comes to people speaking up and
18:57
advocating for each other. You know, it's the abuse that I
19:01
get online. It's just horrendous.
19:04
Why does somebody think they have the right to say that I
19:06
should be gang raped or I should be, you know, killed or I should
19:11
go back to the jungle, all these things that people say.
19:15
Without knowing you. Without.
19:16
Knowing me, it is frightening that they think because all
19:20
these people, all this toxicity was always there in society but
19:24
was on the fringes. And I think what social media
19:27
and what now our political environment is allowing is it
19:31
for it to become acceptable in front and centre.
19:34
And that is a huge shift. You can't say it was never
19:37
there. Division, hatred, all these
19:39
things have always been there, but as a society we saw them as
19:42
being unacceptable and we've been fighting to make things
19:45
more acceptable. But we are still going.
19:47
We're now going backwards and that is terrifying.
19:50
So the advancements made on talking about and normalizing
19:54
menopause and dealing with that, normalizing the idea that we do
19:58
have coercive behaviour as a, you know, an illness in our
20:01
society, that we have discrimination, that we have
20:05
hatred. It's normal now.
20:07
When did you know we have to fight back?
20:09
It can't be normalised. I totally agree.
20:10
And I think it's been so much like accepted, especially just
20:13
think about menopause in the workplace.
20:16
So if Oh well, she'll menopausal, Well, she wouldn't
20:19
go for promotion. And someone recently said to me,
20:22
oh, well, now I'm menopausal, I'm going to change my job.
20:25
And it's like, well, hang on, there's treatment for menopause.
20:28
Actually, if you have the right treatment, you'll be feeling so
20:32
much better. You shouldn't be a second class
20:34
citizen because you've you're suffering from something, and
20:37
neither should you be perceived as one in the workplace either.
20:40
It is unfortunate that the biological clock comes, as you
20:43
said, at the time when your career is just going at that
20:46
stage, you know, your 50s, sixties is when you probably are
20:49
looking for emotion, going to senior management.
20:52
And a lot of women are actually, because the acceptance isn't
20:55
there and the culture isn't there and the help isn't there
20:58
is so that it's easier to step away.
21:00
Yeah, you know, in my world, you know, it is sad.
21:02
We're going backwards. The number of women who are at
21:05
top of FTSE or 250 companies, we're going, the figures are
21:08
going backwards. Women who are staying in my
21:12
world in financial services full time, a lot of them are going
21:14
part time because yeah, the infrastructure isn't there to
21:17
support us. You know, there's so much
21:20
support when you go to women entering to work at the lower
21:23
ladders, but they're we're stuck in the middle.
21:25
Absolutely that, you know, we need to have middle management
21:28
and senior management. There isn't enough support at
21:30
that time. And also the other thing is the
21:33
reality of women leaving, having children later and having
21:37
parents who are still alive is that we've also got women at
21:40
that same time being sandwich carers.
21:43
Yeah. So looking after young children,
21:45
having caring responsibilities on top of going through
21:48
menopause, on top of looking after your career, it's
21:51
absolutely exhausting. It's really hard and, and even
21:55
thinking about the NHS, we did a survey recently of people who
21:59
are employed in the NHS. So any grade, any, you know, not
22:02
just medics, 37% wanted to reduce their ads but couldn't
22:06
afford to. So if you've got that, you won't
22:09
be going to work on doing the best of your jobs.
22:11
You will just be sort of going through the motions.
22:13
But the worst thing is, is that in the UK, only 14% of
22:17
menopausal women receive evidence based treatment that we
22:20
know would improve their brain fog, improve their anxiety,
22:22
improve their ability to function.
22:24
So it just seems so in Congress that we're not even looking
22:28
after our own. If you like it's you know, you
22:31
wouldn't have people going to work with broken legs and not
22:34
giving them any treatment and adjusting their work so they
22:37
could you know you. It just is is mind boggling
22:40
actually that it's just accepted that women can go on lower
22:44
payless pension, you know, reduce their hours it.
22:48
It's real, you know, all these things are connected.
22:52
It's, you know, the medical, the educational and the financial,
22:56
it's all connected, which is why, you know, as you know, I've
22:59
launched this, a specific financial services platform for
23:02
women called Money Shoe. And I launched that in November,
23:05
even though I mean, we were scheduled to launch in November
23:07
and then I got diagnosed with cancer in September, but I was,
23:11
even though I was then starting chemo in October, I was
23:14
determined that I was still going to do the launch.
23:17
So we launched in November because actually one of the
23:20
problems that women have is going through menopause and
23:22
having to give up work or going part time being diagnosed with
23:25
cancers. We know, you know, 80 odd
23:27
percent of women diagnose breast cancer in their 50 / 50.
23:31
You know, at a time when you need finances and women already
23:34
have a pension gap, have a, a gender pay gap, you know,
23:37
without money, there's so little you can do.
23:40
And then at that time you can be out of treatment, you can be
23:43
receiving treatment for up to two years.
23:45
So then you've got that financial burden of maybe more
23:48
childcare, more care for parents who are having respite care in a
23:51
care home. And you know, I am absolutely
23:55
passionate about the fact that financial security and freedom
23:58
for women is so underserved. You know, in my industry in
24:02
financial services, you know, the big institution thought, oh,
24:04
well, we've got a female initiative.
24:06
We brought out a pink brochure or I was told by a wealth
24:09
manager the other day with a very big brand.
24:11
Oh, gin, you'll be really proud. We now have a light lunch option
24:14
and our menu. And I was thinking, oh great.
24:18
Just for women. Just for women and then I went
24:21
to the launch of again another fund for women as they women
24:24
need different financial products.
24:26
They don't actually they just need to be educated and have
24:28
more confidence and access to them.
24:30
You know, the whole suction shares a whole world of wealth
24:33
is those benefits are dominated by men.
24:36
We need women to have access to those benefits as well.
24:39
And I went to this launch and it was actually going really well
24:43
until they then came to this point where they said, and
24:47
anybody who becomes a client will have a free consultation
24:50
with our colourist. And I thought.
24:52
Oh dear. What I didn't know if it was a
24:55
hair colourist or a clothing colourist, I wasn't quite sure
24:58
what the colourist was and they went on yesterday to help you
25:00
with your wardrobe and I thought.
25:02
Would they do that? With men that you think that
25:06
that's what women want. They're coming to talk about how
25:09
they become financially secure and empowered, not to find out
25:12
about their colour in their wardrobe.
25:14
It's and it's sort of things and you just think, you know, in
25:17
2024, this is what I said, 20 we're still doing this.
25:21
We're still, you know, talking to women as though they're
25:24
children. And your, I mean your research
25:27
showing the number of women who aren't saving regularly and it's
25:31
shocking. I mean, the stats are high,
25:33
aren't they? The the stats, I mean, basically
25:35
we our latest research that we've just done is particularly
25:38
around ISIS because I love ISIS, you know, ISIS are a tax free
25:42
wrapper. But so it depends what you put
25:44
in it that you know gets your real return because you know
25:47
when you retire, you get older, you're 100 lbs, you go into a
25:50
supermarket today with £100 you want in 10/15/20 years for it,
25:54
you're 100 lbs to be able to buy the same basket of goods.
25:57
But it's not going to because of inflation, you typically in 20
26:00
years will need that £100, will need to grow to about 130 or 40
26:03
lbs. So you need what's called real
26:05
return. So you don't Saving in cash is
26:06
not going to give you that. And what we found is that over
26:09
60% of women, so it's women are saving more, but they're saving
26:13
cash, cash, ISIS and in cash. And that's not going to give
26:16
them the real return returns they need.
26:18
And only about 14% are saving in in stocks and shares, Isis.
26:22
So we need to increase that. But actually 41% of women, this
26:26
is women who are earning more than £40,000 a year, can't
26:31
afford to save at all because of their responsibilities.
26:36
That is shocking. That is shocking, isn't it?
26:38
Absolutely. Shocking when you think that
26:39
women live longer, have more complicated medical needs, but
26:44
also the high percentage of women who living in pension
26:47
poverty. It's growing and to me that is
26:51
just a tragedy. You've worked hard all your
26:54
life, you've put up with all these things and then you can't
26:57
afford to turn on your heating, you can't afford to buy food,
27:00
you can't afford to live in what we think is normal everyday
27:04
comforts. That's why, you know, putting
27:07
away money now and start of encouraging women to become
27:10
financially literate and financially confidence is so
27:13
important. And again, I, you know,
27:15
eventually at Money she we want to start an initiative in
27:18
universities and schools as well, because education and this
27:21
is not just for women. I do believe that all young
27:23
people when, especially when they go to university in that
27:25
first year, should learn about APR, about mortgages, about
27:28
loans. You know, we don't teach about
27:30
money and yet it's the basis of so much.
27:34
Without money, you don't really have freedom of choice.
27:37
And the other thing about women being able to save, and it's not
27:40
just for the bad stuff or for the negative things.
27:42
It's also because so many women want to start their own business
27:46
or go part time because of their responsibilities, because of
27:49
menopause, they may want to start their own small business.
27:52
So having that freedom, you know, being able to put away
27:55
money so that you can in your 50s, say, or 60s think, well,
27:58
actually what I want to do is maybe support a charity or start
28:02
a business or travel. It's just just that freedom of
28:05
choice. And it's a freedom is so
28:08
important. And you know, as a doctor, I can
28:11
talk about anything. We could talk about sex, which
28:13
is fine. But people actually are more
28:15
reserved talking about money than they are about sex, aren't
28:17
they? Yeah, we what?
28:19
Some of the statistics we discovered were really shocking.
28:21
We found out that OR results show that only 17% of couples
28:26
have serious conversations about money. 17% That's extraordinary.
28:32
And the other thing was a divorce gap because
28:34
unfortunately, you know, divorce is a reality and, and for a lot
28:38
of women end up living in single households for a number of
28:42
reasons. And the gap, the divorce gap is
28:45
that a man after divorce tends to be 33% better off than a
28:48
woman because again, women are not taught about how to ask for
28:52
things properly and how to really demand that they get an
28:55
equal share and a fair share, not just equal, but a fair share
28:59
post divorce. So there's so many things that
29:01
we need. Education so important, isn't
29:03
it? And again, thinking back about
29:05
hormones, 'cause that's all I think about.
29:06
We know the divorce rate increases during menopause.
29:09
Yes, we know that abuse increases in menopause.
29:12
We know that it's so much harder for women because they've lost
29:16
their jobs. They've lost so many women I see
29:18
in my clinic have lost their jobs, they've lost their
29:20
partner. They have no idea what how
29:23
they're going to function and financially as well, it affects
29:27
us so much more I. Mean, as I said, I'm a survivor
29:30
of domestic violence and you know, in 85% of coercive
29:35
behaviour or domestic violence cases, there is economic abuse
29:40
because it's one of the easiest ways to control women,
29:43
predominantly women are victims. Um, so I'm really battling that.
29:47
We really, you know, banks and institutions, insurance
29:50
companies all have to be better at protecting their female
29:54
clients and and actually seeing the signs of when abuse is
29:57
happening. But it's also the fact that we
29:59
are not educating women enough to understand their rights.
30:03
So, you know, understanding our rights are so important.
30:06
We've got to because the reality and these are not taboos that we
30:10
talk about. And people say to me sometimes,
30:12
oh, Gina, you're just, you know, listening to you, so depressing.
30:14
And I know it's not about being depressed, it's about
30:17
empowerment. Yes, you've got to know what's
30:20
coming. Be prepared for what's coming
30:22
around the corner. Which is so it's so important.
30:25
I'm sitting here thinking, goodness, there's so much I need
30:27
to think about finances in general because as doctors, it's
30:29
terrible, you know? Oh yes, I did a whole set, I did
30:32
a whole project with doctors and I was quite surprised, I have to
30:36
say that nurses, doctors and again the lack of engagement,
30:40
but it's because you're busy. Yeah, totally.
30:42
And that's one of the things, you know, technology has got as
30:44
good as ill and it's, but it's also enables efficiency and
30:48
accessibility. So with the money sheet
30:50
platform, what we've done is we've built tools and we've got
30:54
sort of people worry about their risk, what products should they
30:56
buy. So we've got like a matchmaking
30:58
tool for risk. And so you can go in there and
31:01
it's just simple. And it's that accessibility and
31:04
making things and technology also can lower costs.
31:07
And that's one of the things that industry does not like.
31:10
It's protecting its high fees. And I'm going actually, you're
31:13
milking people. If people, if you're getting a
31:15
return, it's their money, they should get the the lion's share
31:19
of it. Why are you taking all these
31:20
fees? That's not how much it costs.
31:22
And so exposing the, you know, I would say quite often to people.
31:27
How do you think we got Canary Wharf and all those nice shiny
31:29
big buildings? Just think about whose fees have
31:31
paid for that. Yeah, it's very true.
31:34
So before I end, I can't not talk about your breast cancer
31:38
diagnosis. Just quickly.
31:40
You are so positive and you've come in here, you're having a
31:43
pause from your chemotherapy, you've got major surgery coming
31:46
up, but you tell me how much you've researched everything.
31:50
You've got the most fantastic mainly female medical team and
31:54
you've been really involved in every decision making, which
31:57
makes me feel so. Please, actually, I mean, I, I
32:00
was determined to be treated in the NHS because I think we are
32:03
so fortunate to have an, you know, all the knocking the NHS.
32:06
We have a wonderful NHS. There's lots that needs to
32:09
change and improve as in any organization.
32:12
But I've been really fortunate and I've actually got a
32:14
girlfriend who's going through, unfortunately 10 years younger
32:17
than me, but going through a similar diagnosis to myself with
32:20
breast cancer and her team a majority male and she's having a
32:24
very different experience from me.
32:26
My team are predominantly female and it's not just the medical
32:31
support, but it's the emotional empathy I'm getting that's quite
32:34
different from her experience. But I want to be very vocal
32:39
about my cancer. I mean, I've got a quite a rare
32:41
breast cancer, a genuine mutation.
32:43
But again, you know, there are millions of women around the
32:47
country all looking for a lump and there are so there are other
32:51
signs. And for me it was I self
32:54
diagnosed, it was changes in my nipple and also in my skin.
32:58
So, you know, we need to look for, look out for any nipple
33:00
changes, any what I call orange peel skin.
33:02
It's not just the lumps because it's quite hard to look for a
33:05
lump. So you know, women have got to
33:06
be much more aware, self aware, but also the finances because
33:11
you can be out of you know, you need to think about what will
33:14
happen. As I said, you know, 80 odd
33:17
percent of of women who get breast cancer over the age of
33:20
50. So you know, you've got to have
33:22
the financial cushion there as well to be out of work and to go
33:25
through that. Because I think as we go through
33:27
austerity, we are definitely going through austerity again.
33:30
2.0 it's coming or it's here already is that they will be cut
33:34
back on drugs, even though nice might approve a drug that if you
33:38
can't get it on the NHS, you may have to pay for it.
33:41
So you know, something like gene therapy for example, or
33:45
immunotherapy, you know, it could be 100,000 if you can't
33:49
get in the NHS. And so you have to be prepared
33:52
that the public purse cannot pay going forwards for everything,
33:56
be it retirement, be it your health, be it your mental
34:00
physical health, be it for your children.
34:02
So, you know, having a financial cushion is so important.
34:05
And so I'm talking about my cancer because it came from
34:08
nowhere. I wasn't expecting it, but it is
34:11
what it is. It's a reality and I have to
34:13
fight it. And I want women to get screened
34:15
and I want them to talk about it more and people to understand
34:18
that it's breast cancer that strips you of your identity like
34:22
menopause, because it's how society looks at you when you go
34:27
through a mastectomy, which I will be having a double
34:30
mastectomy, you know. And I've sat there and I've been
34:32
in a very dark place thinking how will my hormones change?
34:36
What will people think of me? You know, I'm, I've got no hair
34:39
at the moment. And you know, people look at you
34:42
differently. I didn't wear make up for six
34:44
months because I couldn't have any of the toxicity going
34:47
through my body through chemo. And everyone judges you
34:50
differently. And I have to say though, I am
34:54
sick and tired of people saying you're a strong woman.
34:57
You'll get through it. You have to treat every single,
35:00
but give people the respect to understand that every journey is
35:05
different, every experience is different, but also support
35:08
them. We have to support each other
35:11
and be kind to each other. Yeah, and I think sometimes when
35:14
we're all so busy, we forget to be kind.
35:16
I think that's so important. What a great place to sort of
35:19
wrap up because kindness is everything and it doesn't cost
35:22
any money at all. You don't have to save for it.
35:24
You can do it every day and not judge people and just because of
35:29
course you're a strong woman, but of course you still need
35:31
love and compassion and care and you need explanations and you
35:34
need to be treated as an individual.
35:36
It's so important. I I.
35:38
Would say, I know we were obsessed in education and
35:39
everybody should be A's and get an A and BA class and I go, I
35:43
actually quite like the three C's which are compassion kind.
35:47
I know it's not AC, but I know compassion but and being
35:50
collaborative and collegiate with each other, but also just
35:53
sometimes use your common sense. Yes, we try and overcomplicate
35:57
everything. Common sense is underestimated,
35:59
you know, and, and listen to that feeling in your stomach.
36:02
You know, it's your second brain.
36:04
Listen to that sometimes when you things just seem so complex
36:08
and too difficult to make a decision.
36:11
Sits in a quiet moment. I like quiet moments.
36:13
Yes. Sits in a chair in a quiet
36:15
moment and just listen to your own voice and that feeling in
36:19
your stomach because you'll probably make the right
36:21
decision. So important, really important.
36:24
So before we end, I always ask for three take home tips and I
36:27
feel you've given. Those tips already, Yeah, no, my
36:30
three take home tips. So for women, I'd say that that
36:32
one, stop saying sorry. The first word out of your mouth
36:37
shouldn't be sorry and stand up and speak out and be proud of
36:41
who you are. Own your space because no one
36:44
has a right to diminish you. And don't let them, Don't give
36:47
them that power to diminish you, You know, own you.
36:51
And the third thing I suppose I'd say is, is what we've just
36:55
spoken about. Be kind.
36:57
You know, it doesn't take much to be kind, but that kindness
37:01
can save someone. I just end on I saw a chap
37:05
crying on the bench. When I finished my chemo, I
37:07
could finally go out the house and do things and it was a
37:10
beautiful, We've had a few beautiful sunny days.
37:12
And I saw this chap crying on the bench and I went up to him
37:16
and I sat down and I said, are you OK?
37:18
And he saw at me and I said again, are you OK?
37:22
I said, I'm not leaving here until I know you're OK.
37:26
And we sat on the bench talking for two hours.
37:30
And he had just gone through a terrible experience, through
37:35
mental health illness. He had lost his, he's going
37:38
through a divorce. He was about to lose his home,
37:40
and he was thinking of suicide. And two hours later, he said, I
37:44
can't believe you bothered to talk to me.
37:47
And you know, I just said to him, go and see Sav.
37:48
And I gave him, I said, I can't help you.
37:50
I don't know really your situation, but these are some
37:52
people you can go and talk to the Assistant Advice Bureau.
37:55
There's this, this, this, these are the things you can do.
37:57
This is where you can get help. And I said, all I can give you
37:59
is practical help. That's all.
38:02
And he said, no, you actually stopped and spoke to me.
38:05
And so that that's just a very simple thing.
38:07
It didn't cost me anything. It's so important.
38:10
It's so important. Kindness goes a long way.
38:12
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much.
38:15
It's been really great. Thanks for coming.
38:17
It's been my absolute pleasure.