Latest / NYPD Through The Looking Glass / NYPD SVU Lieutenant Zeek Arkham

Transcript

NYPD SVU Lieutenant Zeek Arkham · NYPD Through The Looking Glass

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Zeke Arkham is a recently retired NYPD lieutenant from the forensics section.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you can follow him on X at his Twitter handle is at Zeke Z-E-E-K A-R-K-H-A-N.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Zeke, welcome to the show.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, man.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure is mine.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: So please tell our listeners a little something about yourself.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so like you said, I'm Zeke Arkham.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I recently retired from the job, the NYPD.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I did 20 years, 20 and out.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've done everything, uh, from patrol to uh playing clothes ops to parade ops.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in uh citywide traffic for a while, did all the parade details into special victims.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was in special victims for almost four years, and ended my career in in forensics, where you know I I learned a lot.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I've done just about everything.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I said, I had my uh Alexander moment.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: I turned around and said, there are no more lands to conquer unless I go the executive route, which I said I absolutely do not want to do that.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like getting divorced.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I went through all that and finally retired.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm here in sunny Florida and looking forward to the next chapter of the book that is Zeke Arkham.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So where did you grow up?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Queens, born and raised.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it it's fitting that I did pretty much all most of my career in Queens.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I knew the neighborhoods, I knew the people, you know, I knew how to get around.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've been literally in every section of Queens, you know, even before the job.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I was I always wanted to be that guy who policed his community, and that's what I got to do.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in Queens, got married, moved to Long Island like everybody else, like every other cop.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, my my daughter is a uh a Long Island princess, and now she's getting used to the heat and the weather and and the bugs here in Florida.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So she's adjusting.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's an adjustment.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So what year did you come on the job?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: I came on uh July 2006.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was at 25-1 class.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I was at class that uh, you know, we all had to take the loan, the MCU loan, and and so we could live and and afford to buy the uniform and all that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I remember my first day, I I had to go to Brooklyn College to swear in.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I I didn't know where Brooklyn College was, never been to Brooklyn College.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I get on the train.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I get on the train about an hour and a half ahead of schedule.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I looked it up uh and they said it would take me, uh take me about two hours to get to Brooklyn from where I lived in Queens at the time to Brooklyn College.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, you know what?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna leave three and a half hours ahead of schedule.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: As it turns out, a train derailed on the way to Brooklyn College.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was still about a half hour, 45 minutes late.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and Mike, Mike Anderson, who he and I are actually really good friends now, and he actually says he remembers it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: He was the first person to welcome me to the department.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh he comes, he goes, Recruit, are you late?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, sir, train derailed.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Well, take an earlier train.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I did.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I took an hour and a half earlier train.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he kind of looked at me, he goes, an earlier train than that.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't really have an answer.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was that was my introduction.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh funny enough, I applied for NYPD and FDNY at the same time.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through both processes.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the only reason I'm I'm a cop today is because PD called me first.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: FD called me.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was sitting, I remember I was sitting in Brooklyn College.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was like the third day, the second or third day in Brooklyn College.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they finally called me and said, Hey, listen, you know, we have a spot for you.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Report here on this day.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Uh, I'm already in the NYPD Academy.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they were, oh, they said, okay, uh, are you gonna stay?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I I I guess, you know, uh I'm I'm here.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, okay, so you got six months, and after that, you know, if we don't hear from you, we'll uh we'll get rid of your application.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, okay.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh by the time six months came and went, I actually forgot about the whole thing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's that's why I'm I'm the cop with attitude today and not the the firefighter with attitude.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which police academy did you go to?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: The one on 20th Street or the one out in Flushing?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I went to the 20th Street one, the one where uh with the jail showers and every everybody knew each other's secrets.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, good after gym, you gotta take a shower, you know, especially if you start off in gym and uh you stay you you go in that uh that jail shower and everybody's looking at looking straight at the wall.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's asses and elbows in there because the the lockers are are right next to each other.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I've gone to the uh the Flushing Academy a bunch of times, and that's like a that's like a mall.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I always compare it to you, you know.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like walking through uh Roosevelt Field Mall.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's spacious, the hallways are nice and and wide, you know, the the locker rooms are nice and clean.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have your own little cubby little little locker there.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: The showers are nice and spaced apart.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: You actually have privacy there.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I actually uh I low-key hate on the uh on the new recruits today because they have it so much better than we did, especially, you know, after going through that 20th Street Academy.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was your first command coming out of the academy?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Out of the academy, I went to the 115 and uh I did impact there.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I remember uh my my lieutenant there at the time.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's actually he he's either still on the job or he might have retired with me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know he had just about 20 when uh when I was there.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I did a detail later on after I became a lieutenant and saw him, and I was just like, bro, like why why are you here?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But he's one of those guys, he's you know, you have to kick him off the job.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Even if he ages out, you have to kick him off the job.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: He he was he was really like a stickler for radio and radio etiquette and how you say things over the air.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um I got to the 115 and he yelled at us for a while, and the sergeant's all yelled at us for a while.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, being an impact, the guys who had six months more than us yelled at us for a while because they felt like they, you know, and they yelled at us worse than anybody else.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they treat you the worst.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's I always tell people the people who are gonna treat you the worst when you get to your new command are the guys who have six months more than you.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, I went to the 115, I walked up and down Roseforth Avenue, and uh I did it in the cold.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I did it, you know, through all kinds of of weather there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I I'm appreciative of Impact because it does teach you how to be a cop.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: It teach you how it teaches you how to do certain things.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh from there I went across the street to the 110 precinct after Impact uh uh left off.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for a second, could you just explain to our listeners what impact is?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Im impact Oh, can you hear me?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Impact is is basically you they teach you how to be a cop by getting you to write everyone and their mother.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: They they give you they give you an absurd uh uh number to reach.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can't say quota, so you have to say number.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: They they this is your this is your performance goal for the month.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like it was two arrests, um, 10 C summonses and 20 A's or B's.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, you spend every day of your tour, like, okay, okay, okay.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I got my one collar out today.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just I got five C's, I need five more, and I gotta start writing some B's now.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta start writing some A's.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you that's that's just your mindset.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it does teach you how to process arrests.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like by the time I I got to the 110, I was really good at, you know, the paperwork and putting putting the arrest through just because I I'd done so many in impact.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, you know, it it's got its good and bad impact.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people were against impact because you had to write so much and you had to do, you know, there was so much activity.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you it basically just it it took away all of your all of your discretion just because you were so focused on getting that number.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you didn't get that number, you would get crushed.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you know.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it it it it does it it's bad in that aspect, but it's good in the fact that it teaches you how to be a cop and it does things that FTU doesn't do regarding, you know, it it teaches you just how to sort of depend on your fellow cops and depend on your squad.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you could talk to your squad and be like, you know, guys, I need a collar for for the month.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we got three days left in the month and your your squad will look out for you.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It does teach you that kind of camaraderie, I guess.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it does teach you how to, like I said, it teaches you the paperwork, it teaches you the process.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: My first ever collar was a DW that I I fell ass backwards into.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I fell ass back like the guy happened to stop in the middle of an intersection.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Just I just went to his car to check with him just to see if he was okay.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not even thinking about the fact that he might have been drunk.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I smelled it before I saw him.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I went, oh boy.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh I called my sergeant to the scene.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, all the task force guys, you had task force at the time, they showed up and they were like, hey, you want it?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'll take it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: You want it?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I had already called my sergeant, you know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the sergeant goes, No, you're taking it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what was going on.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's my first ever collar.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting there, I go to the, I go to the at the time, it was the 112.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was the uh the intox uh unit.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: The highway guys are making fun of me because I had no idea what to do.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, yeah, you know, but after that, I knew how to process them.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: My my third ever collar was an assault two.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there were three of them.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: There was a fight outside of one of the bars on uh on Northern Boulevard.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I'm thinking I'm safe, you know, because I'm driving a sergeant that day.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: We get to the scene, and uh some of the older cops are looking at me, they're like, all right, man, where's your cuffs?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, well, hold up.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm the I'm the sergeant's hot, you know, I'm I'm good.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of you guys.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the sergeant goes, No, you're taking this.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, Wait, what's going on here?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm processing three assault twos at the same time.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of those kind of kind of deals.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But like I said, you know, it teaches you the job, it teaches you how to put a collar through, it teaches you how to talk to the ADA.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: By the time I got to the 110, I was further ahead than guys who uh who came out of the academy with me.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, so, you know, it does teach you that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what I didn't like is that it does take away your discretion because you're so focused on that number.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe if they lowered the number or just, you know, just you know, gave you something reasonable or or had FTU more like impact.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what the answer is, but you know, uh uh I was more appreciative of the job after coming out of impact.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you went to the 110.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can you kind of describe for what 110 is like?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, between the one the 115 and the 110 share a border, Roosevelt Avenue.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who knows, who's been watching social media knows Roosevelt Avenue is where, you know, basically all the massage parlors are.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's the little the little red light district of of Queens.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we all knew about that before it started making national uh uh news.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um the 110 is a very heavily it's it's there's a huge immigrant population there.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I started learning more about uh uh Central South American gangs, Dinegan gangs, uh Mexican gangs.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: You have Left Frac City there, so I started learning about bloods and crips.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Bloods in Left Frac, but there's Crips sort of that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: We used to meet at Queen Center Mall, but so they would have beef every now and again.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: You learn you learn a lot.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: The 110 is is is a uh it's not it's not a heavy, heavy precinct, but it's busy.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's busy enough where you work and you learn more of the job.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I I always I did want to be one of those guys, excuse me, who works in a soft command, who who doesn't really, you know, you you turn into the neighborhood kind of you know police officer.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to work in a busier command, and and thankfully throughout my career, I did more details than anything else like that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did uh, you know, I was always looking to do more with my career.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to the 110 and um, you know, they detailed us out to the 7-3 every now and again.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Between working at the 110 and then being detailed out to the 7-3, I learned a lot.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my first day at the 7-3.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I got there with a bunch of other cops and I was like, Yeah, you know, we're here.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they were all like, um, who are you?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you coming from?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he's checking like the detail, you know, the the detail roster and all that.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I I learned a lot.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot just you know from both commands.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I worked more in the in the 110.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was a it was a good, it was a good precinct.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: The cops were more friendlier, they were more inviting, they were more, they were more talkative to you.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was a youth officer there in the 110, so I got to work with graffiti, I got to work with anti-crime, I got to work with, you know, plain clothes.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I did plain clothes ops myself.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the cops were more, they, they were more like, you know, they wanted to help you out more than the 115.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: The 115, they were basically speak when spoken to.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was an impact thing and you had to graduate from impact before the cops started treating you better.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the 110, it was more, you know, hey, listen, we're all in this together, which I liked, which you know I always liked.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've always said policing is a team sport.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so if you if you have guys who are just out for themselves or or don't want to talk to you because you don't have a hash mark on your uh on your on your sleeve, um, that that's not a good command to work in.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also why I didn't want to work in a softer command, because you had that kind of attitude where the older guys had their own little hierarchy, and then the guys who were just showing up, you know, kind of had to make their own way.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the busier command, it's true, in a busier command, people help you out a lot more.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what I loved about the 110.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: The 110's got a lot of big-time stash houses there.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Did you guys get a lot of home invasions?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or did you ever walk into a sta stash house on a job?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: We we got a bunch of burgs in the 110.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the crime sergeant used to have this rule that if a berg comes over the air, uh, no, no lights and sirens to the job because you didn't want to scare the burglar off.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you wanted to catch him in the act.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we got hit with a lot of burgs.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, 110's a big residential area.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we got hit with uh we got hit with burgs, we got hit with uh home invasions, we got hit with uh with just people squatting, homeless people squatting in houses, and uh eventually only gets there and wants wants to kick them out.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: We got a bunch of those.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as far as stash houses, I didn't really, we didn't I didn't really walk into any stash houses, as I I can say, but um we got we got a ton of bergs, we got a ton of uh, you know, we we were calling ECT and crime scene, I felt like on a weekly basis, just getting there, you know, just to process the scene.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: But we we did a lot, you know.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I said, it was it was it was a command where you know we we uh we worked, you know, and and and we had those situations where you only had one, two sectors operating at the time.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were that sole sector working and answering jobs, it sucked, which has happened to me a cu a couple times.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, like I said, you know, you you worked, you learned, and is it's not an experience I would trade for anything else.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just because, like I said, you know, I've always wanted to work in a busier house.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't want to go away to Brooklyn, you know, to to to be able to work to do something.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to stay in Queens, and thankfully I was able to do that, you know, at the 110.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: The 7'3, I mean, that's Brownsville, right?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's Brownsville, yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's that's a whole other ball of wax from Queens.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, the cops are different, Brooklyn North, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's right.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: This uh the busier the command, the the different the cops are.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did you guys um did you get a lot of catch a lot of homicides and and gun collars over there in the 7-3?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: They mostly left us alone because we were a detail.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we were a detail, we were there.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: They know they they basically said, you know, whatever whatever you do here, we'll we'll take.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you catch something, we'll take.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, it was it was they basically just detailed us out when they needed us.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't like we were there.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I was I was there when Madri was the CO there.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he basically wanted us to uh to he wanted them to leave us alone for the most part.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I I you know I I I I feel like I can't I can't really say I worked in the 7-3 just because it was a detail.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just, you know, they just sent us there and we worked and we came back.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: As a young cop, do you remember your first homicide?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I remember it was it was it was outside of Lefrack.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to remember the area.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm going back over 15 years.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's an area next to Lefrak where um Trinitarios, there's a gang there called Trinitarios.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: They were heavy there, you know, Dominican gang.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: You would see them wearing green.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was their color, green.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, and uh and uh they would they I remember at one point they had beef with some Latin kings.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think I'll I think a uh one of the Trinitarios got shot, excuse me, and he uh he bled out on the scene there.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember it was my first time seeing a legitimate dead body.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sitting there, I'm wild and looking at it, and I'm going, wow, okay, that's that's what it looks like, you know.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then uh for the next uh couple days after that, you would see them all flagged up.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: You would see the Latin Kings wearing their gold and black and flagged up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was a high school, Newtown High School over there, which had a Latin King presence, even though the principal never wants to admit it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: The principal over there, he he, no, my school is wonderful.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are no gang members here.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then you would talk to them and be like, Yeah, but you see all those guys wearing gold and black?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: They they just like the colors gold and black.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all five of them wearing the same thing at the same time.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, that's that's you know, they just like those colors.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, we knew something was brewing because they will all wear their colors and the Trinitarials will all wear their colors.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it just it got bad.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we were on heightened alert.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But that was my first legitimate homicide.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we also had we we had one homicide where the mother refused to believe her son was a blood, and we go into his room and he's got red bandanas all over the room.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we go to we go to her and we go, ma'am, you know, your son was shot.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's over here, and and it doesn't look like he's doing okay.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And she falls out and rolls all over the floor, and like literally rolled all over the floor.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we go, ma'am, we we believe your son was in the gang.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: My son was not in the gang.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can we see his room?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, ma'am.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see all these red bandanas here?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: All this red and black?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, but he just he just likes red.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, ma'am, ma'am, your son's a gang member, you know?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we we've had we've had we did things like that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: We had to tell stories like that, but that that homicide stuck with me because that was just, you know, it was it was it was it was everything I've seen in the cop stories and in the cop life, and it let me know, you know, you're officially a kid, you're officially on the job now.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean, I I I I worked with homicide a couple times when I was the special victims, but uh that was my first official dead body.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, of course, you don't see in all the DOAs, you know, as a rookie cop, you you're sitting on all the DOAs anyway.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um that was officially like, you know, where where I saw the homicide squad come out and they had to investigate, and I saw our squad come out, and then it was uh then they will point at me and go, hey you kid, you're on, you're watching this until we released the scene.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're sitting there in the hot sun, hating your life and just looking up at the sky like, God, why why am I here?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but uh yeah, that was that was my official officially my first one.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember your first gun collar as a young cop?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being a uh being a youth officer.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually one of the most frustrating.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not not the collar itself wasn't frustrating.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Leading up to it uh was frustrating.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: There was a there's a there's another high school within the confines of the 110, uh Arts and Business.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's yeah, yeah, it's called Arts and Business.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this kid brought a gun to school, but he ditched it in a in a in a garbage can.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to talk to one of the other students who saw him ditch the gun into the garbage can.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to talk to the kid, but I'm trying to talk to a kid in a way that's not gonna screw up the entire case, you know, the the the entire uh collar.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're not trying to lead the kid, you're not trying to, I'm just asking him questions.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: What did you see?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see anything?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see him reaching his bag?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I had teachers behind me going, You saw him put the gun into the garbage can, right?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and I'm trying as nicely as I can to be like, lady, stop.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot say it to him like that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna mess up this entire collar.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: The ADA is gonna throw this out, and I'm gonna have a bad collar on my record.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: But she she wouldn't stop.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to like back her up.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to, so as I'm trying to back her up, and I'm trying to talk to this kid, I'm like, listen, can you guys, can you just can you give me like five minutes alone with this kid so I can talk to him?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you guys, this is gonna get DP'd immediately, messing with you guys.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: My sergeant calls me, my sergeant at the time calls me, and he goes, Are are you trying to S can this uh this collar?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, No, what are you talking about?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Why am I getting calls from this school safety level, whatever, saying you're trying to can this?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's standing two feet away from me as he's on the phone with me.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I look up at her, I go, You called my sergeant?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, She goes, Uh, you know, because I didn't know what was happening.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I go, you couldn't talk to me?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm standing right here.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Well, well, you know, it was a mix-up.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, giving me, like, you know, the smile that, you know, hmm.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I go, no, I go, I step away, I go, Sarge, they're gonna screw this collar up for us because they're they're leading this guy on, trying, they're they're influencing him.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to, you know, kind of coerce him into making this uh making a statement, and and I'm trying to get them all away from him.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, all right.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I'll I'll be right there.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So thankfully he showed up and he kind of pushed everybody away.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to talk to the kid.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: The kid, you know, ID the gun, the bag, the uh the other kid, and I made the collar.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, I'm sitting there, like, I'm looking at this school safety chick, like, why would you call my sergeant and say some dumb stuff like that?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm trying to, like, like, I'm here, you know, I'm here at the school.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, yeah, after after that, immensely disliked this chick.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: She tried to like make up for it a couple times.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: She tried to, oh, hi, Officer Hawkham.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, screw you, lady.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that kind of thing.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was, yeah, that was my my my first gun collar.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: How much time did you have on the job when you um you got promoted to sergeant?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I want to say uh about 12 years.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you think?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: 12 years, yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think of the process of B mock and the training and everything?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: What people don't realize is when you get promoted sergeant, you kind of go away for a while.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of send in an indoctrination course.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Honestly, um it was all stuff that I guess I I knew already.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they they they they had this one lady in B Mok who who I don't know where she was a sergeant, but her cops.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Must have hated her because she all she did was trash talk cops.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're sergeants now.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be dealing with cops who are just dumb.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be dealing with this, you're gonna be dealing with that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like all she did was trash talk her cops.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: When they get here, you're gonna have to do this to them and you're gonna have to straighten them out because this is who they are.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting there and I, you know, as a as a newly promoted sergeant going, I don't it's not that bad, you know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was a cop five minutes ago.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was a cop five minutes ago, it's not that bad.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh there was a lieutenant there who was telling us that we had to kick people out of the locker room and you know, we we deserve two lockers as sergeants.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if we see a cop who's got, you know, an extra locker, we can go inside the locker room and empty out his locker.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking to myself, if you go inside a cop's locker room and empty out his locker, you're gonna lose the command.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be that that sergeant.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just I made up my mind, I was like, that's not the kind of boss I want to be, like at all.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know who these people are or how long they've been in the academy, but uh that's not the type of guy I want to be.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh but I got promoted, I went straight to citywide traffic, which to this day I have no idea how I got there.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: A buddy of mine called me uh um and said that uh he he made a phone call for me to get me into citywide traffic, which I mean I'm grateful because he he I he truly believed he was looking out for me, but I thought I was actually going to the 109 because I I you know I I knew the CEO there at the time.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was really good friends with her.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: I liked her.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: She was a mentor to me, and I I thought I was gonna be working with her.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wound up going to Citywide Traffic, and uh it was it was interesting to say the least.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Turn out of uh Manhattan.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is that that castle?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I went there and um it was interesting.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh there there were good people there, there were good cops there.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I just I don't think I uh I just don't think I fit in there.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I said, I was I was I was more of like, you know, I guess uh I I wanted to do more with my career, I guess.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: But um, like I said, there were there were good people there.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm by no means trashing anybody at City Y traffic.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: There were just guys there who were very used to a very slow kind of pace, and I was used to a faster pace.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I said, you know what, this this isn't for me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um I I started putting in my papers in.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: I went and sat in front of the uh the board uh to go get to you know to go into the detective bureau.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody else who sits in front of the board, I was like, I B, please don't take me.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't take me.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't take me.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: But uh thankfully I I went into special victims after that, which is where I wanted to be all along, you know.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it it wound up working out for me.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: When you were in Manhattan Traffic, you're supervising cops that are writing tickets and directing traffic and stuff.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Did you meet any famous people while you were down there?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, a bunch, a bunch.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if you want me to say names or anything.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure, why not?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I made J Lo get out of her van and walk down the street.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: She uh she it's it's funny, uh, I get I get a call from one of my cops on the detail.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there was a parade going on.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you know how, you know, with uh with parades, you know, one street's blocked off, but then the next two streets after that are blocked off as well, just to make sure no one takes a wrong turn and is driving, you know, into into a bunch of parade uh watchers.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh one of my cops calls me and says, There's this guy who's getting in my face, and uh he's trying to get me to open up the street.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a you know a block or two away.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I'll be right there.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I start walking up to the to the post, and I see this uh tall white guy, like standing over my cop, trying to talk to him.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: But he's like, stand over him in a way that's kind of intimidating.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, I'm about this guy's height.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let me uh let me go uh bark at him a little bit.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I back him up and I go, What do you want?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I have a VIP, and the Pap Razzi's been following us, and I need to get this VIP to uh to her apartment without anyone seeing her.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I need the street opened up.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Well, I'm not gonna open the street for you because there's a parade going on.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: But out of curiosity, who's your VIP?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Miss Jennifer Lopez.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh, yeah, no, she can't.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not opening up the street for her.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh he goes, I said, I said, if you want, I can, I'll, I'll, I'll help you walk her to her destination to make sure she's not harassed or anything, but um, I'm not gonna open the street up for her.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So two vans pull up.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, her sister gets out of the first van.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Her sister and her and a couple other people get out of the first van.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: She gets out of the second van with her kids and walks past me like I didn't even exist.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was a foot away from me and walked past me like I didn't even, like I wasn't even standing there.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, okay, good.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: That actually just confirms uh what I why I did what I did.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you could tell she was very uncomfortable walking down the street and people saw her.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: People, oh hey, look, that's Jennifer Lopez.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she was extremely uncomfortable walking around us, uh, you know, us peasants.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So uh she she wasn't happy about that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, good, I I I kind of messed up Jennifer Lopez's day.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm cool with that.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, you meet other there's uh celebrities that I've pulled over, you know, they that my cops have pulled over on the street, and I I quickly found out which which were the nice celebrities, which were the you know, the sort of the a-hole celebrities.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, no one that I I guess I I was like, you know, hey, wow, look at that person.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, a couple people that you look at, you go, oh, hey, that's uh that's the guy from from that place and and the the people.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, I mean Manhattan was where where it all happened.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you where where which borough did you go to special victims?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Queens.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So special victims is rough.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean you're dealing with some really dark stuff.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how how did you handle that?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um with without without trying to sound completely callous, it gets easier after, you know, it's like it's like anything with policing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: It gets easier.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: We had a uh we had one case and I was I was relatively new to special victims.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: We had one case where uh this woman got uh got after getting into an argument with her boyfriend.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: She stormed off in one direction down the street and he went, you know, basically went, ah, screw her and let her walk off.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: As it happens, she gets and um we're we're we're going through the case.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: One of my best detectives, uh Ray Abear, who passed away from COVID-related sickness, uh, God rest the soul.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: He had the case and he had a whole workup.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had the guy ID'd, he had a whole workup.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Turns out COVID hits and the country is shut down.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we know who the guy is, we know where the guy is, we just can't get the guy because the whole the country is shut down.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, we're we're talking to this, to the victim on the phone.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're saying, hey, listen, you know, we're s we haven't forgotten about you.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're still on the case.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: We know what's going on, but you know, we we just can't go get the guy yet because the country's shut down.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she was, God bless her, she was cool about the whole thing.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, Yeah, sure.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I completely understand.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I completely understand.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she starts opening up a little bit at a time.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: We go, we get the guy.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: We get the guy, we get a DNA swab from him.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: We come back, DNA matches, we go back down, we get him, we bring him up.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: We do the lineup.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: She comes in.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: The second we pull back uh the the cover for the lineup, she completely fell apart.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was like all those months of waiting, everything that happened to her, it just all hit her at the same time.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the woman completely fell apart.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: My heart went out to her so badly.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had to pick her up, and ma'am, we need you to identify him, please.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: You knew me.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she pointed him out right away.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: After that, you know, it was, it was, I just I felt like I was in the right place because it was what I wanted to do.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to put away the bad guys.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make the world safer for my daughter.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have an 11-year-old daughter right now, and uh, I wanted to make the world safer for her.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make the world safer for my for my wife.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I wanted to do.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So every time we put away a rapist, every time we put away a sexual assaulter, every time we put away a child porn consumer, every time we put away a uh a pedophile, I was happy to do it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was it was something I I was like, thank God I'm here doing this.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I I was speaking about this last night, actually, and I said, I have nothing against guys who who basically want to do a soft career.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there I have a really good friend.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: His his daughter competes against my daughter.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, competed against my daughter in dance competitions.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, great guy, though, good friend of mine, a guy I have the utmost respect for.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But he he stayed in one command his entire career.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: He worked for community affairs.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: He he retired as a second grade detective.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: He he basically had a softer career.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And God bless him, if that's what you want, go for it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't want to be that guy.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be the guy who was out there putting pans on people, right?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, collaring people, trying to make as much of a difference as I could.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at special victims, especially after this first big case, I felt like I was in the right place.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And special victims, you know, in Queens, I had a great crew.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: I had great cops, I had great investigators.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had guys, you know, we were a close-knit unit.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had our own Christmas parties.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: We, we, you know, even I missed the last one just because I was working, but we get together every year to celebrate the life of uh Ray Abear, who was our family member.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we we invite his wife and she comes through and and she she's still a part of the team.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's a you know, we tell her you're you're as much a part of the team as as Ray Abear is.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it was a good, tight-knit crew, and I'm proud of each and every single one of those guys for all the work they did.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was the highlight.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: I still say to this point, it was the highlight of my career.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you have to argue with people every now and again who think that uh special victims is like what you see on TV because they're all like, you know, they're all like, oh, you know, I've watched all 20 well however many seasons of special victims, and Olivia Benson, she does this, so this is what you guys should be doing.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, no, that's like no.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's it's dirty, it's dirty work, but it's good work.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like I said, I'm I'm so proud of my time there.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud of my investigators there, and uh, I wish them all, I wish each and every single one of them all the best.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sex crimes, especially with children.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: How is your relationship with the district attorney's office?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times, like the higher up with crimes like homicides and sex crimes, you just don't collar somebody.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a the there's a relationship with the district attorney's office where you'll call them up.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've got this, this, and this.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can we proceed?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: How how was your relationship with the Queen's DA's office?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was decent.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: There were times when we were butt heads with them.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: There was one uh DA there.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: She was extremely hard to work with, and she thought it was a flex to be hard to work with.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, she was more with the child side.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the child abuse squad had to deal with her a lot more than the adult squad did.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, because there were times I was ready to either curse her out or hang up with her.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, for for the most part, dealing with the uh adult crimes, we had a pretty decent working relationship with them.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: They understood what we were doing and we understood what they were doing.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: There were times when we were butt heads, we would say, you know, hey, listen, we've got X, Y, and Z.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: We think we can collar him.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they would say, No, you know, get us this.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those times, those few times were frustrating.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say 80, 85 to 90% of the time, we were on the same page.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was, I'll tell you a funny story as special victims.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: There was this one lady, the uh, I tell everybody this story, and lady, she must have just came back from Columbia and had the whole mommy makeover package done to her because she walked in my office and every male investigator fell in love with her.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she had perfume on, you could smell her before you saw her.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she had she was wearing this like tight body dress.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: All of my male investigators would think of a reason to walk past the interview room so that they could get a good, you know, they could go and check her out.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, she uh apparently she was having marital problems with her husband.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh she went to one of the uh psyched this uh I forgot what you call them, um uh the like the witch doctors on Roosevelt Avenue, the guys who put the potions together and they'll they'll do this for you, and you know, whatever.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So she goes to the uh the witch doctor or in Roosevelt Avenue and says, Hey, listen, my husband is uh is not he's he's not in love with me or whatever, he's cheating on me, whatever.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need you to to put a potion together for me.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he goes, All right, he goes, but uh you have to strip down naked and I'll put the potion together, but I have to insert it into you that with my fingers.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Okay.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Oh, and it's$75.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Okay, here you go,$75.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: So she strips down completely naked, lays on the table, he takes this potion, puts it in, you know, inserts it into her vac.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh she gets up, goes home, has sex with the husband.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Husband goes, Okay, you know, thank you, you know, whatever.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes back to the witch doctor and goes, Yeah, you you messed up.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't work.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Oh, that's because I have to do it multiple times.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I this this takes multiple applications.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So after you give me another$75, I'll I'll put it into you and things should, you know, be uh should things should be looking up.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, she strips down again.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: He inserts it again, she goes home, has sex with the husband, husband, you know, okay, thank you.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: She now decides she's the victim of a sex crime.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she comes to our office and is telling us this whole story.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: She tells the investigator the whole story.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: The investigator goes, hold on a second, let me go get my sergeant.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Calls me.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I walk into the office, she tells me this story.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking I'm being punked.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking around for cameras, I'm like, this, this can't be real.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she goes, I'm I'm insisting I'm the victim of a of a sex crime.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I go, All right, I'll tell you what, I'll call the DA's office and uh we'll see what they say.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And after if they if they say you're not a victim, will you believe that?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: She says, yes.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I call the the DA, I put him on speaker, I relay the entire story to him.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, You're screwing me, right?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't say screwing, but you know, he goes, he goes, he goes, this isn't this isn't real.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: This didn't happen.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I go, uh, it happened, and my victim is sitting right here.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, Oh.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, yeah, no, we're not gonna prosecute that.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a that's not a she's not a victim of anything.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: She uh she gets up, she huffs, she gets up and storms out the office.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: But uh he we we laughed about that case for a good month or so after, just because uh, you know, it's just the lengths people will go to go to.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: You were in set so you were in special victims for a couple of years.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: What what possessed you to take the lieutenant's exam?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I actually took the lieutenant's exam before I went to special victims.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was I I made the list and uh I I deferred it just because I thought I was gonna get promoted to uh to SDS and the promotion just never came.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I spoke to my chief.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, hey, listen, like I'm at I'm at the end of the day, approaching the end of the list.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta make a decision one way or another.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't sit and wait here forever.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: One way or another.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting so he basically told me, you know, there's nothing he could do.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he he couldn't he couldn't put my name in.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I took the lieutenant's uh promotion, even though I wanted to stay at Special Victims.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was happy being there.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I had a good crew, I had a good schedule.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I had a good boss at the time, my lieutenant at in Special Victims.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was happy where I was, you know.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I felt like I was really accomplishing something and doing something, but I couldn't wait any longer.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I took the lieutenant's promotion and I'm I'm happy I did, because it's a it's a rank that I always wanted to reach.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like a lieutenant was good, was high enough where you could you could be your own person, but low enough where you could still be out there with the cops.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I didn't want to be an executive.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be uh, you know, married to the job, I guess.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: But being a lieutenant was was high enough where I got the I got that white shirt respect, I call it, but I was still I was still one of the ground troops, you know.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: What what what command you go to after your training?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the six, where I was, I was uh that's uh that's uh the West Village.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Village, yeah.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they put me in charge of Washington Square Park.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I walk into Washington Square Park and I went, what the hell did I get myself into?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: You got drug dealers right there in front of you by the fountain.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: You got the crackheads over there to your right, you got the student activists behind the drug dealers in in front of you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you got you got um the graffiti guys and and the the robbers and and everybody else over there to your left.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And my my CO basically said, Yeah, I need you to fix all this.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I went, oh my lord, what am I gonna, what am I doing here?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what they would do is they would fly in cops from uh Manhattan South.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I got some good cops, I got some bad cops.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I got I there were there were two cops every time they they got sent.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you know what, you you can turn around and go back to your command.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't need you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just because I I'd rather I'd rather patrol this park by myself.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Useless.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Than than deal with you two, either one of you two.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's basically what it turned into.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I missed being part of a squad.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I missed being part of a team.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um after after the park closed because winter came, they put me on midnights, and I uh I I was part of a team again because the midnight cops were pretty much their own team, and they were a bunch of really good cops, really good guys who all looked out for each other, who all, you know, kind of worked as a team again.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was for the first time I was happy, you know, just because I felt like I was part of something again.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the the six had a bunch of really good cops there.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's cops I still I'm I'm still in contact with from that command who all a bunch of really good people, you know, really good, uh, really good cops, really good people.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, if if I I tried to do as much for them as I could.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was a cop I helped.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: There were two cops actually I helped get into special victims.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um I tried to do as much for them as I could before I left because I knew I was on my way out.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh yeah, you know, I had a good team on midnights, I had a good team during the days when I was there.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I I the only thing I can really complain about, I guess, was the commute.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't used to uh that Manhattan South commute.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, coming from I lived on Long Island, so coming from Long Island to Manhattan South took me an hour and a half going one way and about an hour going back the other way.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I wasn't used to that commute.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, like I said, you know, I had good cops there for the most part.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's always that, those, there's always those uh one or two cops in every command that you're like, oh my lord, how do you tie your shoes in the morning?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, for the most part, I had a good crew.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when I left there, um, you know, a lot of the cops there said, hey, listen, boss, we're gonna miss you.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: You were one of the best bosses here.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, it meant a lot because I've always wanted to be a good boss for my cops.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully I I I did that everywhere I went, you know.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well and what what I find fascinating is you you um winding down your career, you wound up as the ICO, which is the integrity control officer of the forensics unit of the lab in Queens.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it's to me that seems like that would be a really stressful job given all the evidence from the NYPD drugs, guns, hits, everything's going through that lab.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you're the guy who's tasked with nothing's going missing, no one's stealing anything, procedures are followed.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that just sounds like a it's uh it sounds like the desk at a busy command that never has arrest.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, was it that busy to do something like that?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: It it wasn't as busy as as as you'd think.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you'd have you most of the times I was trying to look out for the cops as much as I could.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if if if I could see it was just an honest mistake or they just misappropriated one thing someplace else, I would try to, you know, I would try to relay that to IAB, because you have to report everything to IAB.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I try to relay that and go, hey, listen, it this is what it looks like.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is what I've got.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can see where the mistake was made.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Other times you had cops that just could not count.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you would have, you know, they would they would put they would put, you know, I you know, seven crack vials on their on the uh on the voucher report, and uh there's like three there, and you're just like, oh my lord, what are you like, what are you doing?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I can't explain this.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it wasn't it wasn't as busy as you think.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we would have our discrepancies, we would have uh things that happen, but for the most part, it was a nice way to end a career.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like you said, and that that's the whole thing with you, the word count, because with the NYPD, it's not nothing gets swept under the rug.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just like you said, if some cop wrote three, you know, seven crack vials and there's three, they don't say, Well, those guys are getting brought down to IEB.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be GO 15, which is a hearing, you know, you know, and then and then there's sergeant who signed the property envelope.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna get dragged into this.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just gonna be, oh, don't don't worry about it.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: You said seven, three.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's put the difference and say there's five.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, heads are gonna roll.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: So someone's getting jammed up, they're gonna lose vacation time.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's um it's people think, you know, with the NYPD, like it's a big joke.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, guys get in a lot of trouble for stuff like that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And just like you said, something as simple as counting.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when I went, when we I went down to uh IB tra IB slash ICO training, uh I was I I guess I was actually able to tell everybody, you know, listen, we're all ICOs in here.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Please, for the love of God, tell your sergeants not to just blanketly sign vouchers.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Have them bring it up.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember, like, you know, being a rookie cop, you had to bring the evidence up to the desk.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you and you always had that one sergeant who would count everything and make sure everything was itemized.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, you know, you're like, you know, dude, just just freaking sign the paper, please.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I got five other things I'm doing right now.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: But being the ICO over at Forensics, you you appreciate that sergeant.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sergeant who was a stickler for detail just because, you know, he kept you from getting jammed up.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he kept himself from getting jammed up mostly, but he kept you from being jammed up.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So being, you know, I they I I when I first got on the job, there was a uh a lieutenant uh who who became sort of like a mentor of mine.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, There's stuff that's that we're gonna do that doesn't make sense to you right now, but later on it's gonna make all the sense in the world.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And his words kind of came back to me as I'm calling the IAB and going, Yeah, I got a discrepancy, you know, I got this going on, I got that, and you know, the cop put seven crack vials and then we we only got five, we only got four, you know.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's things start making a lot more sense as you go through your career.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I tell guys on the job now the job sucks for the first two years because you're gonna be taking every detail the older guys don't want to take.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be doing headquarters security, you're gonna be sitting on those DOAs, you're gonna be sitting on those hospitalized prisoners, you're gonna be taking the collars that the older guys are looking at you and going, rookie, get your handcuffs out, you know.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: But after that, the job becomes fun where you're on details where you're you're standing there, you're literally standing there going, I'm getting paid overtime to do this, and I'm having a great time.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're you you know, there are parades that go on that people just have fun at.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about the West Indian Day Parade or the Puerto Rican Day Parade.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking about like, you know, some of the smaller parades out there.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's details out there.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had fun doing New Year's Eve every now and again where, you know, you get hooked up into a really good detail and and you're just sitting there and you're you're hanging out, watching the ball drop, that kind of thing.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Excuse me parade.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I got to hook up family members and and I basically hung out with family members for the parade, and you're getting paid overtime to do it.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh there's other details that, you know, the MTV awards I I've worked at before, where you're basically just standing there watching celebrities walk past you and you're like, hey, look at that.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh Game of Thrones, the the last season.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was a Game of Thrones fan.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to, I was able to work that premiere of the last season.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting there taking pictures with uh guys I I I'm fans of, I saw on TV.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I tell all the rookies the job for the first two years sucks.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then after that, there are times when you're just gonna be standing there like I could work another 10 hours of this and and be perfectly okay with it.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I tell them all, just stick with it, you'll be fine.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you got hired a year before I retired.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, bro.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: I lost you.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear me now?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear me now?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, I lost you.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Huh?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's your I think it's your mic or your headset, maybe.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on a second, it might be me.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just give it a second.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you hear me now?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you got you got hired a year before I I um I retired, so there's an overlap.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you experienced a lot of things I didn't, and I was kind of curious because a lot of things what wasn't around.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was no social media really when I was around.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you had mentioned to me that uh at some point you got called into internal affairs about a social media post.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of fascinated by that.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that I mean, is that that someone dropped a dime on you that didn't like you, or is it that IEB monitors NYPD cops and members' social media policy?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a little bit of both.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I think they uh they monitor social media, but I think someone also dropped a dime on me.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I worked around a lot of civilians and I worked around a lot of liberal civilians.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my post was was the post in question was supporting ICE.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um thankfully the the guy, the the lead investigator, um, I don't think he saw it as as anything big.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, he he spent he spent more time reading the the rules and regulations than he did actually uh uh interviewing me.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was something where I mean, yeah, I I couldn't believe I was answering, you know, these type of questions.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have bias against anyone?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've done I've done almost 20 years and and with without incident, you know.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: No problems, right?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you do you discriminate against anyone?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know I I've I've literally helped out every segment of the population.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh uh do you do you do you do you uh are you part of any groups or anything that that that discriminate against people?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, like you know, so uh that's basically what it turned into.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you're you're you're worried for a little while when they tell you you're the subject, but uh I still I I retired in good standing.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: I got my good guy letter, I got everything that I needed.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I I'm I'm here.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm here and and I'm happy for it, you know.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I by the grace of God, I was able to do 20 years without getting jammed up, without being a part of any real investigations, without um, you know, you get your CCRBs.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: You get your you get your communications.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I've got those.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Any cop that's out there being active is gonna get CCRBs, you're gonna get your communications, you're gonna get people making accusations against you, you're gonna get people putting their their cell phones in your face and going, you know, I want your name and shield number.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're gonna get that.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Especially my work in the six.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there were protests every Thursday, and they made a point of trying to go around to every cop, trying to get their name and shield just to harass them.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: I still say I will never forgive Andrew Cuomo because he basically made doxing cops legal with 50A.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I was able to do 20 years without any any real problems.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was out there, I was active.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I tried to take care of my cops as best as possible.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to always be a cops cop, which is something I I've always prided myself on.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, like I said, by the grace of God, I was able to do it.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, all the the Bible says all weapons formed against you shall not prosper.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a that was a moment where uh you know a weapon formed against me did not prosper.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm glad for it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: See, during your 20 years on the job, what would you say, what would you say were like a couple of the biggest changes you saw from like when you first got hired on your way out with the job?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Biggest change I saw was uh, you know, I I I always used to joke, Washington Square Park, if you had given that to us on impact, we would have destroyed that park because impact, we were always looking for activity, and that park was rife with activity.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you had, if you had unleashed about 10 of us impact cops into Washington Square Park, we would have made our our numbers for the month between arrests, between A summonses, between B, you know, B's and C's, we would have torn that park apart.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I when they put me in charge of Washington Square Park, I would say to my cops, all right, listen, like, you know, I gotta go turn out roll call.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be back.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just need one summons from you all.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: One.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying one summons each.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying between the six of you or so that I have here, one summons.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be right back.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be back in an hour.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: One summons, just so I could, you know, justify our our existence here.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I will come back and I'll go, okay, where's my one summons?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then they would they will go, hey boss, we we we we don't see anything happening.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: We there's there's nothing going on, you know.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is Washington Square Park, dude.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I I can throw a stick and they'll bounce off of five people doing something summonsable.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um that that was that was the main that was the main difference.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I guess when I came out, cops were more self-sufficient.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: They they you know, no one was trying to hold our hand, no one was trying to guide us.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was the epitome of we're gonna drive you out to the middle of the ocean, throw you overboard, and tell you to learn how to swim, that kind of thing.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, they hold your hand a lot more.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays it's a kinder, it really is a kinder, gentler job.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, between the I don't know if it's the fact that they they got rid of the run requirement.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's the fact that uh in the academy they're they're softer.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Recruit discipline isn't doesn't go as hard anymore.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I remember we were legitimately afraid of recruit discipline when I was in the academy.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you you would walk into the bathroom and you could hear a pin drop because you weren't allowed to speak in the bathroom.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, these guys are having fun.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're joking around, they're partying in the bathroom, they're hanging out.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot about that, about not asking.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: I totally forgot about that.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't thought of that in 40 years.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you you know, you you there was more of a uh a nervousness about making way when you saw, you know, a cop, especially in uniform, or anyone, you know, you make way! You know, you get against the side of the wall because God forbid you bump shoulders or anything.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: It it's more relaxed in the academy now.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and the old ways, to me, the old ways are the best ways because I think you turned out a tougher cop in the old days.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe that's just me.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm having a hairbag moment, maybe I'm just, you know.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, maybe it's just, you know, the the the 20-year career in me where, you know, it's like, you know, yeah, these kids have it so good now.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm pretty sure guys who were retiring when I got on the job were saying the same thing about me.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I I I I liked the job better 20 years ago because you you you you know, cops were a lot more self-sufficient, I would say.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you got a great photo of you on X holding this big ass yellow python wrapped around your neck.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have to ask, how did that how did that happen?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I was working a Halloween, that was when I was a sergeant at Citywide Traffic.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was working a Halloween parade, and um some guy comes along and he looks at me.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's got the snake, he's got he's got the snake, he's holding the snake, and he kind of like walked by me, I guess, and he I guess he wanted to see my reaction.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked at him, I went, yeah, that's not I'm not afraid of snakes, man.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not scaring me.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Oh, he goes, you know, why don't you touch it then?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: I go, I'll do you one better.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hand it over.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: So he goes, no, no, and then and people start cheering me on, and I kind of put the snake on my shoulders.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Go ahead, take a picture.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: He took a picture, and I'm standing there holding holding it holding the snake.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I've never really been afraid of snakes like that.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I've actually responded to jobs with snakes.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it didn't really bother me.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but it was it was my uh it was my moment, you know.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I you know again, it's one of those details you're having fun.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the Halloween parade, you're having fun, you're watching people dress in their costumes, you're watching little dances back and forth, they do the thriller dance.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was it was just a moment where it was like, you know what, let's go ahead and do it.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have fun on this.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if this picture makes its way to the wrong person, so be it.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not the end of the world.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was basically that.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm just glad I can talk more about policing and my cop career.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when I first started my social media account, it was to be an advocate for for cops because I saw so much disinformation and misinformation going on.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I stepped away from that a little bit more to talk about general broad overview of politics and social commentary.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: But now I can I can go back to talking more about cops.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I don't have to worry about getting jammed up, um, you know, I I can talk more about uh cops and I can talk more about policing and law enforcement and what cops actually go through and try to be more of an advocate for police and policing across the country.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Zeke, you got quite the following on X.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: You got over a half a million followers, which I find that fascinating.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: What what's your handle and where where can our listeners check it out?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Zeke Arkham, Z-E-E-K, A-R-K-H-A-M on X and Instagram.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on I'm on TikTok to a lesser degree.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's the real Zeke Arkham.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the only reason I had to make that difference, the real Zeke Arkham, is because I I went on TikTok and somebody else had my had my handle.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to put hey, that this isn't me, you know.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I had to put the the real Zeke on.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that that's where you can find me.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else you'd like to promote?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'd just like to say, you know, just thanks for having me on.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: I always love talking to cops.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always love uh advocating for cops and and trying to be uh, you know, a good spokesperson for cops.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's not too many of us out there who can really talk about the job and talk about what cops go through and advocate for cops.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everybody gets their impressions of cops from uh these true crime shows or law and order, and and they like looking at the bad cops.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: They like they like trying to find find, you know, this cop's corrupt because he's doing this, and this cop's a bad cop because he's doing this.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I love being able to be a spokesperson and and and just say, hey, listen, no, this is what cops are going through.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is what cops have.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's it lets you know you're going in the right direction when you run into cops and they they kind of look at you and they go, Hey, listen, by the way, I follow you on social media.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Love your stuff, man.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Keep doing what you're doing.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I I love that.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: So uh listen, you know, just for every cop out there, um, you're loved, you're supported.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I'm not standing shoulder to shoulder with you anymore, I'm still there in spirit.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: So keep doing what you're doing.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of your followers on X who also listens to my podcast, he's a Canadian policeman, James Fleming.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: He reached out to me and he goes, Hey, this guy'd make a great guest on your show.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's that's why I said, Oh, okay.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I reached out to you, and here we are.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: But Zeke Arkham, thank you so much for spending your time with us today.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, brother.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: Truly appreciate it.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me on.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, I'd like to thank everyone for tuning in, especially my listeners in Gales Ferry, Connecticut, Brewster, New York, Block, Rhode Island, Mobile, Alabama, and Concord, New Hampshire.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you worked in law enforcement or had an interesting criminal background, please drop me a note on Twitter or Instagram at VicFerrari50.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you're watching on YouTube, please hit the like and subscribe buttons.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoy the content, check out my Amazon author page.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just type in my name, VicFerrari LikeTheCall, where you can preview all my NYPD books for free.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again, everyone, and I'll see you next week.