Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 323: Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part I

Transcript

Issue 323: Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part I · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:05
Welcome to the note polity. Hi, this is Nick Nastasu, story editor
0:12
on Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:17
are listening to aggressive negotiations from the Jundland Wastes to Dexter Jetster's secret recipe closet.
0:32
You will find aggressive negotiations plumbing the depths of the Star Wars galaxy.
0:37
I am one of your hosts, Jedi Master John Mills, and with me
0:41
as we examine what everybody knows is his favorite character, even though it's not
0:49
the best character in the Star Wars saga. Are you ready, Jedi Master
0:53
Matthew rushing to strap in, go to light speed and talk about the TV
0:59
series Obi Wan Kenobi. I am you know. I It's funny because after
1:08
we had our conversation a couple of weeks ago about Obi Wan Kenobi, we
1:15
both kind of looked at each other afterwards and like, I kind of need
1:19
to rewatch the series. I need to do that too. Why don't Why
1:23
don't we just revisit it? Okay, So I'm I'm really excited about this.
1:29
You know, I haven't rewatched this series all the way through since you
1:34
know, it came out and we talked about it already on the six or
1:38
two Club, and so I haven't seen it since then, and so that's
1:42
over a year ago at this point, and so I'm very interested to be
1:47
diving back into the series. And you know, absolutely, this is my
1:49
favorite character in Star Wars, and so this is a show I couldn't have
1:55
been more excited about. But John, before we get into that, we
1:57
can't jump into the show without telling everybody. We're thinking full for them listening,
2:02
and we love for them to catch up with us in like say,
2:05
social media. Please follow us over at the Jedi Masters on Twitter, the
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can really help us out by giving us a star bating review over on the
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Old Apple Podcast. It's been a long time, folks since we've had a
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review there. And in the Sea in the Dune see of Star Wars podcasts.
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Let's just say you could walk the entire dune. See if podcasts represented
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stepping zones, which means we need your help with some reviews. If you
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like our show, help people find our show in that dune, see that
2:55
that loan jewel, kind of like Obi One's Lights Out in the middle of
3:00
nowhere where sands never shift. But we can deal with topography later. Because
3:07
I gotta ask a question here, though, Matt, because it's so easy
3:10
to forget that this series at one point was going to be a film,
3:17
and then along came the Last Jedi, and regardless of what anybody thinks of
3:23
it, Solo a Star Wars story, which I consider to be a truly
3:25
superlative Star Wars film, suffered the after effects of the fans splitting seismic shift
3:35
that happened, and Solo a Star Wars story, despite being pretty much as
3:39
successful as Aunt Man in the Wasp and Deadpool Too, was deemed a failure.
3:46
And as a result, the Kenobi movie gets, you know, reconfigured,
3:53
reapproached. Things change, lucasfilms, picky about scripts, not everybody's happy
3:59
about everything that's going on with it, and it keeps getting delayed. I
4:01
gotta ask, did any of that temper your expectations for the show as you
4:06
were going into it, Like, let's let's bring everybody back up to speed.
4:11
Like you said, we talked about this on the six o two Club.
4:13
But as you're sitting down, you're rewatching this first episode. Did anything
4:15
come back to you where you looked at it and you said, man,
4:18
I remember when this was going to be a movie. It's hard for people,
4:25
I think, to remember that the moment that you know, Disney bought
4:30
Star Wars. I think one refrain over the fact that there were going to
4:33
be episodes coming, you know, seven eight nine, was this idea,
4:38
give us a Canoby movie, right. I think fans consistently asked for one
4:45
thing. They just wanted one thing, which was, you know, a
4:47
Canoby movie. And part of that is you've got you and McGregor, who
4:53
is the perfect age. Even when Disney bought Lucasfilms, he's right in the
4:59
sweet spot to be playing this character again in that time period between episodes three
5:04
and four and so, and you only have so long for that to happen,
5:09
right, I mean the sands of time pass everyone, and you know
5:14
there would be a point where he would be too old to do this,
5:17
and so it's it's incredible to think that this took this long and that this
5:26
wasn't even the first thoughts, which is interesting to me. Now. Part
5:30
of that is is, if you know, we know that Solo was actually
5:34
something that was already in the works before Disney even bought Lucasfilm, You've got
5:40
all of the rigmaro that happens behind the scenes with Michael Aren't leaving. The
5:45
force awakens, which brings Kazin over and he stops working on Solo so he
5:48
can work on that, and it puts everything out of whack. There.
5:54
There's a lot of upheaval that ends up happening, and that really is just
5:58
the first sign that everything is not going to go well when it came to
6:02
Disney Lucasfilm Films in the sense of you know, people not working out.
6:09
Aren't was just the first in a very long line of people that have gotten
6:15
pushed over like Dominoes by rampaging Bantas on the sands of Tattoine. So it's
6:23
fascinating to think that this could have been a film. And you know,
6:26
even revisiting I think the first episode here, there's so much about this that
6:32
I still think this would have been better as most likely a trilogy than a
6:39
television show. Now I say that unless they had decided to take the and
6:46
or approach, which is to film this in England, to give it the
6:51
same status basically as a film and make it truly premiere televi vision in the
7:00
same way that you know, where we're spending millions of dollars per episode,
7:04
like a Game of Thrones or something like that. If that had been their
7:10
approach, I think that it would have been different. Except they approached this
7:16
the same way they do the Mandalorian, and it's really I think it looks
7:23
like it's made on the cheap, even in the first episode, and instead
7:28
of being what it should be. I mean, this is like the premier
7:32
character of Star Wars that we're going to bring back. And it still bothers
7:38
me that it was not given what it needed, even just in production value.
7:45
I mean, hold on, I don't look at it as made quote
7:48
unquote on the cheap. I look at it as it still had not dawned
7:55
on everyone the limitations of the volume. Everybody was still very enamored of the
8:01
volume because of the early success that the Mandalorian had with it, and people
8:05
fell in love with it, and there was success with it going on with
8:09
the filming of The Batman, where there was a lot of that that was
8:13
done on the volume, and it was really successfully done. You know,
8:16
when you look at the finished product of that, you look at that you're
8:20
like, wow, that is really effective. I think that I don't see
8:24
something that's on the cheap so much as something that it was the misapplication of
8:33
a new technology they were still exploring it, because I don't think, for
8:39
instance, The Last Jedi was made on the cheap, but I think that
8:45
some of the effects limitations that you see occur here. Specifically, in this
8:50
first episode, there's a shot where Obi Wan walks out to sit down and
8:54
look out over the waists and he's just sitting there contemplating and looks just as
9:03
I want to choose my words carefully. It's not a particularly successful effects shot,
9:09
and it brought to mind the shot of Ray and Luke walking out on
9:13
the cliff, yes, the outcropping in The Last Jedi, and I remember
9:16
being in the movie theater my first viewing with that and saying, wow,
9:22
that's a great point. Yeah, like, I know we're better than this
9:26
and it's just a matter of time to get it right. So I don't
9:31
understand why that shot happens like there are certain things that seem like they should
9:35
be old hat by this point. Yeah, there's no easy effects shot.
9:39
There's always difficulty with it. There's always skill, but so long as you
9:43
have the time and the patience, So well, that's really what I see.
9:48
Yeah, and I do think that there's another there's another couple of issues
9:52
here, especially with the first episode. One is the way the camera moves
10:00
using handheld cameras instead of making this because because we start off and I do
10:05
want to talk about this even more and a little bit, but you know,
10:09
we start off with the prequel recap and so um, this movie should
10:13
have mimicked the prequels in the way that it was shot, in the sense
10:18
of the way the camera moves this the steady cam shots, you know,
10:22
the uh, the because I don't because there's there's plenty of places in here
10:28
where they're using like, um, handheld and they're shaking the camera around for
10:35
no good reason, and it's it's it's really jarring, and it's it's not
10:39
well done. Now we're we're we're going to disagree right out of the shoot
10:43
here because of this one thing. And I think you're gonna I'm suspecting that
10:48
you're gonna say, oh no, well, that was fine at least I
10:52
hope so. Because that opening sequence with the young wings racing through the temple,
10:58
well Order sixty six is going on. I thought that was extremely effective.
11:05
I thought it was extremely effective the first time I watched it, I
11:07
thought it was extremely affecting. This time, while I was watching it,
11:11
I felt fear, I felt confusion, I felt disorientation. I thought that
11:18
see. I thought that was one hell of a way to kick things off,
11:22
specifically because it really heightened the emotional impact of Order sixty six and the
11:28
fear and basically the outright terror of it all, as well as showcasing.
11:33
You know, we're talking about a spot a minute ago where the effects didn't
11:37
line up quite right. You want to see where artificial character generation has gone
11:45
in the last ten years. Look at the troopers, the gleam on the
11:50
armor, the way that they move all of that stuff. Honestly, like,
11:54
you look at that and you're like, wow, that's crazy. Even
11:58
though I don't like necessarily that they gave so much of a shiny quality to
12:05
the uh, the trooper's armor, because that's not really consistent with the look
12:09
that we've had before. But it seems a little showy. But I mean,
12:13
please tell me, like, I know what you're talking about with like
12:15
the handheld when he's talking with the other Jedi in the desert. Yeah,
12:18
that sequence, I think, Yeah, I think there's there's that place.
12:24
Um, I think that the I think there's some really good stuff in the
12:30
Order sixty six scene. But I also wasn't really sold by the Jedi that's
12:39
supposed to be protecting them. Um, So I there's just a I don't
12:43
know, I see that. This blows my mind because I feel like the
12:50
world. I feel like the world is upside down right now because because I'm
12:52
complaining about camera movement and like of all that kind of stuff in your fine.
12:58
No, I'm not even saying like it's just fine. I'm saying like,
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I actually thought the performance there was was effective. I really like the
13:07
moves. I really like the spins. I really liked that. Um there's
13:13
this moment during that where you know, everybody's running and a kid moves forward
13:20
and a trooper is about to shoot the kid, and at that moment,
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the Jedi spins around du like goes down on one knee and blocks it and
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I was like, that's really a Jedi move. Like I thought the choreography
13:33
and that was great. Yeah, I thought it was great. And the
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reason I'm saying is topsy turvy is because I am always going to come at
13:41
it and tease the hell out of you, because I've always said, you
13:43
know, you stamp the word Kenobi on something, and you tend to be
13:48
like, no, that's great. No, I'm yeah, and this is
13:52
this is this might be I think, you know, you could go back
13:56
and listen to six or two club episode that we did, and you can
13:58
listen to this series we're going to do. And I think this might be
14:01
the best way for me to show people that I don't It doesn't matter whether
14:07
I love a character or not. I'm going to give my honest opinion.
14:11
And you know, um, and part of this is and and this is
14:18
most likely the case too. I don't know if I'm harder on this because
14:24
I wanted it so badly, or if I'm just harder on this because it
14:28
just deserves it. I don't know which one it is in all honesty,
14:31
And so I'm just saying that right up front. I would also say to
14:35
another thing that kind of bothers me just rewatching this first episode, and I
14:39
promise we're gonna get to things we like. You know, we're just kind
14:43
of hitting. We're gonna be all over the place tonight. But hey,
14:46
I've already talked about something I want. It's true, It's true. I
14:48
know I'm mister negative Nancy ever here. Um. But another thing I don't
14:54
love is I don't love the way I don't love the cinematography in general of
14:58
this show. Okay, that we won't disagree, and and so I feel
15:01
like a lot of the cinematography here and the choices of the lighting that they're
15:07
using, especially when they're using the volume, Um, it just doesn't feel
15:13
right. And the biggest part of this is that in the hardest part of
15:16
this is that we've been on Tatoine so much, especially in the prequel films,
15:24
and we know what Tattoine looks like and feels like when it comes to
15:31
it's general ambiance, and it just never really looks right in the in this
15:35
first episode. And so I think that's something that really bothers me. And
15:43
so yeah, I mean, really just everything to me, involving the choices
15:48
for the camera, I think what I miss is that George Lucas. You
15:58
know, you do the establishing shot, and then you do maybe a closer
16:03
establishing shot, and then you give you know, oh yeah, all that
16:06
kind of stuff where I think where you really which again, with us doing
16:12
this series, I would have liked to have seen them mimic that more.
16:18
I see where I'll agree with you on this is the the lensing on this
16:23
feels too tight. Yes, yes, absolutely, And I think additionally that
16:30
to speak to your thing, Lucas is a very process like when he's on
16:34
the set. I don't think anybody would argue this. He's a very process
16:37
oriented guy. Like you said, I'm gonna shoot my establishing shot. I'm
16:41
gonna shoot my clothes up. I'm going to shoot my clothes up. I'm
16:42
gonna shoot my reverse angles, I'm gonna grab some other stuff. Oh hey,
16:47
I thought up the scenes, So let's shoot that really quick with a
16:48
quick set up. And because his mindset has always been we'll fix it in
16:53
post, we will make this work in the editing, and it's all.
16:56
It always worked for him because that was his mindset. And I think the
17:02
limitations of this the way this was photographed, because you know, good and
17:10
good and good is a point of view Anakin, But like you know,
17:14
it's not a matter of good and bad, it's a matter of style matching,
17:17
which is which I give you credit, Like you're right, This more
17:21
than anything, feels like something you really need to be matching the style that
17:25
Lucas d yes. I think that's why Solo a Star Wars story is so
17:29
successful. To say Star Wars movie is there are different types of camera,
17:32
camera angles and setups, but it's done in such a way that I feel
17:36
like I'm watching somebody who understands how how you know Lucas would put something together
17:41
would makes sense because Ron Howard exactly. I was about to say Ron Howard,
17:45
that totally right. I mean, you look at Willow and it's practically
17:51
like Lucas directed that. But not taking anything away from Howard, It's just
17:55
that he has a similar visual sensibility when he gets in this zone. Um,
17:59
I love Ron as a director. I'm not saying that to take anything
18:00
away from him anyway. And so I think I think it's the editing could
18:07
have fixed our concerns with the way this was shot. I think that where
18:12
things stumble right out of the gate, The first twenty minutes of this have
18:19
me captivated. I am on board. A little bit of flatness comes in
18:26
when Obi wan is at the crate Dragon processing stop like it just seems a
18:33
little you can start to tell that they're walking against the volume and stuff like
18:37
that. But first twenty minutes has me captivated. It starts to slowly come
18:45
apart after that, and then it really comes apart at the end. So
18:52
that's what I actually want to ask you is coming back and looking at this
18:55
first episode. What really jumped out for me was that the lay of stuff
19:00
felt so grafted in at certain points, it felt like it could have been
19:06
assembled differently. That they were too concerned with cutting back and forth to Lea
19:11
as opposed to saying, you know what, We're gonna take a laya break
19:15
and keep that all contained and then we'll come back to Obi one because he's
19:19
the focus of our story. It felt like we were am I going nuts
19:23
Like It felt like in the last ten fifteen minutes of this that the focus
19:29
started to get a little lost. It felt like we were losing focus on
19:36
a year one hundred percent right, And part of this is in all honesty,
19:41
this show I guess besides Mando Season three, which is even worse,
19:48
editing mess is one where I actually can't understand a lot of the editing choices
19:57
that are made here. And this is this comes from you know, spending
20:00
way too much time with you talking to other friends who are actual editors,
20:07
way too much. So you guys have ruined me forever. It's all your
20:10
fault. But yeah, this show, there are so many times where we
20:18
repeat the process of what Obi Wan is doing, which one hundred percent understand
20:25
exactly why we're doing that. We're trying to show where this man's life is
20:30
at that moment. You know what his life's been like for ten years,
20:34
and that's why we're having this repetition. But there are too many times where
20:38
they basically repeat the same shots that they've done before, and you don't need
20:45
to repeat those shots. You only need to see him go on the tram
20:49
from where he works back to town once. The rest of the time,
20:56
you can cut straight from him being at work to being in town and you've
21:00
saved twenty five seconds worth a screen time there. So there's something I would
21:07
even offer to speak to your point. I would even offer that you could
21:11
have multiple shots of it, but you do that sort of not a smash
21:17
cut sort of thing, but you do a thing where it's in quick succession,
21:19
where you change the camera angle and the lighting ever so slightly so that
21:23
you get the you know, and you just see obi Wan and you see
21:26
it like ten times in a row, and you just see him sort of
21:30
like sag more and more in it. And so you show it in one
21:36
sequence and you're done with it, you're out, so that instead of showing
21:40
one long train ride in sure, you're showing he's sitting there, cut,
21:44
cut, cut, and each one is a slightly different angle. He looks
21:48
a little more haggard, a little more dirty. Yeah, you see that.
21:51
It's like, oh wow, this is a long period of time.
21:52
Yeah. And I do think that there are plays where the editing back and
22:02
forth between the Leia story and the Obi Wan story seems to not necessarily work
22:11
as well as you'd want it to. I think part of that is because
22:14
we don't really cut to Leia until I guess a third of the way through
22:19
the episode, and so it almost feels like maybe we could have started cutting
22:26
to her sooner rather than later, and that might have helped. So that
22:33
it didn't feel like we're having to stop the story with Obi Wan and spend
22:38
so much time with Leia to establish everything and then go back to Obi one
22:42
and then go back to you know, like it feels like we're having to
22:45
spend an extended period of time with Leia more so than we want to,
22:52
because we're kind of like, I kind of just want to be with Obi
22:53
one right now. Can I throw an absolutely insane idea out at you?
22:59
Oh? I love insanity. I would love to throw an absolutely insane idea
23:03
out at you. First off, one option is cut down a lot of
23:07
the Laya stuff and just sure get to you know, her being there.
23:14
But also a radical idea that I would have pitched were I in those meetings
23:18
is I would have said, the whole episode is just Obi Wan and then
23:23
Bail and Breha or Breha? Sorry is it Breha or Breha? Do we
23:29
ever hear think it's Bria? I don't know anyway, whatever, Anyway,
23:36
they show up and they say we've been trying to call you. Leia has
23:41
been kidnapped, and you're like, oh, oh, oh, Leia,
23:44
right right, Leia. We've been thinking about Luke this whole time, and
23:48
then the opening of the second episode is a quick telling of how Lea got
23:53
kidnapped. Yeah, I mean that's a good possibility as well. I think
24:00
one of the things that you I think maybe the better way of doing it
24:06
is just shortening the amount of time that you're on Aldern and I think that
24:11
really fixes some of the issues here. I mean, this episode is fifty
24:15
six minutes long, I think, and really there's no reason probably for it
24:19
to be more than forty five minutes. It tightening this up really helps things.
24:26
So, yeah, so I've got a question for you, you know,
24:30
because this is interesting, and part of this kind of goes back to
24:33
something that you had mentioned over and over and over again about, you know,
24:37
one of the reasons that Obi one you know, invader might meet.
24:44
And part of this seems to me is that with the prequel recab, it
24:48
seems very clear that they're using that as set up for basically saying, you
24:56
see two main things there, So I wanted to see if you agree with
24:57
this one. They they make a point I think of pointing out the scene
25:03
where Padmey says they're still good in him, and then they make a point
25:07
of showing basically the trauma that Obi Wan Kenobi has been through with losing his
25:15
master, losing his apprentice to the dark side, and so playing up those
25:22
two things so that as we come into this series, those are the things
25:26
that we're focused on. Did you feel the same and watching that recap?
25:30
I thought the recap was very effective overall. I agree with what you're saying.
25:41
I appreciate that they make a point to address in the dialogue as well
25:49
that when Obi Wan left him, he thought he was dead, right,
25:55
which is something that has plagued the end of Revenge to the Sith and the
26:00
series overall, where everybody loves to be the comedian and say, oh,
26:04
well, why didn't you just kill him? And it's like he thought he
26:07
was dead. When the Emperor shows up and says he's still alive, the
26:12
Emperor's surprised, like, how is this possible? How is he still?
26:18
A lot? Cool? Let's salvage it. So, yeah, I agree
26:26
with you, and I think that I like the recap. Would I want
26:32
to throw at you though? Does the recap instead belong as the dream sequence
26:40
later? Should we have held onto that recap until later in the episode.
26:47
You know, it's interesting you say that because I do feel as though the
26:52
dream sequence could have just been longer, and you could have I mean,
26:57
it didn't need to be as long as it was, but it could have
27:00
been longer, and you didn't need the recap. I think you could have
27:06
just dove straight into the order sixty sixth moment and you know that's again that's
27:15
another place I think that the episode, you know again, it's it's a
27:22
great beginning. But I also think too that one of the hurtful things about
27:27
the recap is that you're watching the way all of these scenes have been shot
27:33
and everything, and then you move into this and it's very jarring to be
27:38
struck with the quality of the prequels as opposed to the quality and the camera
27:45
movement of the show, which is not the same. And I think the
27:51
recap actually really just highlights that more than a lot of those technical issues we
27:57
were talking about with the camera. But I also think story wise, it's
28:03
actually a much stronger story beginning actually to begin without that and just allow that
28:10
to be a part of the dream sequence, like you've mentioned, and or
28:15
even and it allows you to be able to feel the tortured nature of Obi
28:21
Wan Kenobi and basically what he's reliving every night, why he is so broken,
28:29
right, I think that helps do that even better than what we get
28:33
in the dream sequence, or even have it be an opening dream sequence and
28:41
have Obi one wake up covered in sweat and get right to it and then
28:45
save the order sixty six surprise for episode two or something like that. Yeah,
28:52
you could do that too. Now here's the danger right as we're sitting
28:56
here and we're armchair quarterbacking. None of this subtracts from the skill, from
29:03
the professionalism, from the decisions. These are simply decisions we're pitching out there.
29:07
There may be there may have been people pitching these in the early conferences,
29:14
and it's always going to be the director and producers who say, no,
29:18
we're going to do it this way. So what I want to stress
29:21
as well, I think that a lot of the things we're tossing around here
29:23
would have made it better. I think that this is a very good beginning
29:30
this first episode. I said, I really like that. I don't like
29:37
the laya chase scene, and I think that the way that the lay of
29:41
stuff comes together is a little clunky. And I'm gonna you know what,
29:45
I'm gonna embrace this. I'm going to hold onto it. I'm going to
29:48
borrow a term from Mel Gibson here. I'm going to hug the cactus here,
29:51
because this might bring a lot of anger at me from a lot of
29:55
people. I have three children, all of them have gone to the age
30:03
of seven at a minimum and beyond in two cases. The child they cast
30:12
as Leah is adorable. She's adorable, she has great screen presence. Yes,
30:18
she's I just want to I want to absolutely give her a big hug
30:22
and tickle her and make her giggle and have a lot of fun that Speaking
30:26
as a dad of daughters like I feel like I would have a great Sunday
30:30
afternoon running in the park playing frisbee with this kid. Okay, she is
30:36
absolutely cute as a button. She commands the screen when she's on there.
30:41
She proves that WC. Fields, you know this, she's WC. Fields
30:45
is worst nightmare because she would have totally stolen every scene from him. All
30:52
that said, there's no way she's ten. And additionally, there's no way
31:02
she's ten. And that running sequence, you want to talk about something that
31:07
should have been cut down. Yeah, the people chasing her look like when
31:15
I'm chasing a four year old child of mine and making it look harder than
31:21
it is so that the child feels that the child is doing better than they
31:26
actually are, which is for anybody who's not a parent, there's a little
31:30
give and take. Their kids are really smart and they know when you're holding
31:34
back, and they also know that you're holding back because you're four times larger
31:38
than they are and it's not a fair fight, so you're kind of being
31:44
a decent person about it. But that does not play for high drama on
31:49
a series. And that is definitely one sequence where I would have just said,
31:56
you know, let's just have a runoff. She crosses one obstacle,
32:00
we don't even shoot the guard, she crosses one obstacle, Flea throws her
32:06
in a bag. We're done. It's it's ten fifteen seconds and we're finished.
32:12
Because that that chase sequence is yeah, not effective, not effective at
32:16
all. Yeah, No, I would agree. I would. I would
32:20
say, not only is it not effective, but it's actually kind of embarrassing
32:24
filmmaking. Um, you know, it's just not good anyway, shape or
32:31
form um. I do think that the girl playing Leia is adorable. I
32:38
also agree with you. She's not ten and so that's very interesting. But
32:46
whatever, you know, it's I'll let it go. Um. You know,
32:52
I think one of the things that I think the episode does really well,
33:00
and the saving grace of all of this is you and McGregor and the
33:06
performance that he gives here in this first episode. And I think the way
33:12
that he sells a completely broken man and him, you know, you get
33:23
again, you get this idea that he's having these dreams every single night for
33:27
ten nights, and ah, you get the same, you get the feeling
33:32
that he's having the same dream every single night for ten years, and he
33:37
feels the shame and the guilt of everything that's happened. And you know,
33:42
I do love when Bale's like, you gotta let it go, man,
33:46
you gotta you gotta stop living in the past, and you gotta let it
33:51
go because you're needed. And it's not just when Luke gets old enough,
33:55
it's right now. And um, I really appreciate that because it's his full
34:01
What's interesting is this whole series becomes you know, loop Obi Wan's hero's journey
34:07
right in the sense of it's almost like he has to have his come to
34:15
the Force moment again as an adult now after everything that's happened to him,
34:22
his faith to be reawakened, the force to be awakened in him again,
34:29
And so I think this is all really well played. And actually it's this
34:38
part of the episode which I think is so well done. And so you
34:45
know, I had no doubt obviously in any way that you and McGregor would
34:50
be able to do this, But I just think he really puts his heart
34:52
and soul into every second that he's on screen, which is really in important
35:00
because it carries the episode absolutely. When McGregor is on screen, I am
35:07
invested in what's going on. I believe obi Wan is real. I believe
35:13
obi Wan exists. There's no way I could say, well if I'd never
35:17
seen a Star Wars movie before, But this performance alone, just in this
35:23
one episode, makes me want to watch more and learn more about this character
35:28
named Obi Wan Kenobi. But as you know, it would be easy for
35:36
us to talk for hours just about this first episode, but I want to
35:39
get to the core question. What I think is the absolute lynchpin question of
35:45
our discussion having to do with this first episode, and it's a core question
35:51
I will ask about every single Star Wars series. This almost one hour of
35:58
television. If somebody had never seen Star Wars since either the original trilogy or
36:09
the prequels, would you use this as the thing to say, here's where
36:15
you get back into it. Is this episode strong enough that you would say,
36:21
here's a Star Wars to convince you to watch more Star Wars. That's
36:28
a really good question, you know. I think that the way that the
36:32
show launches itself, you know, if say somebody's only seen the films,
36:42
this I think does a pretty good job of bringing you back into the world
36:46
of Star Wars. But it's not the thing I don't I just don't think
36:53
it would be the thing that I would say, oh, you've got to
36:57
watch this, because I don't feel like that this first episode is strong enough
37:06
for that, you know. I think, to me, there are much
37:12
better places to go to reintroduce somebody to Star Wars in that way, especially
37:20
if there're things that they haven't watched. And to me, I always go
37:23
back to, you know, the Clone Wars, and that's because for me,
37:30
you know, I remember seeing that film in the theater and having my
37:37
Star Wars since reawakened in a way that I was honestly pretty shocked because I
37:45
wasn't expecting much and it really blew me away. And I know it didn't
37:50
a lot of people, but to me, it worked on every level,
37:55
and it was Star Wars right out of the gate. It felt like Star
37:59
Wars, looked like Star Wars um. Everything about it was Star Wars um.
38:05
And again, it's not too attack this. I just this would not
38:12
be the thing I think that I went and said, hey, you need
38:15
to watch this. I think that's a fair answer, and I think it's
38:22
a fair question as a follow up to that, as to um, where
38:28
people can find you to discuss their shock. We're gonna end. I have
38:31
so much more I want to talk to you about. Oh, you have
38:35
so much more you want to talk about? Yes you do? Yeah,
38:37
okay, um, let's keep talking. Then there's a there's a few things
38:42
I was thinking of that one. I just you know, we mentioned the
38:45
idea of where ob One hights his lightsaber. Yes, doesn't it make wouldn't
38:51
it made more story sense for him to hit his lightsaber and the rock outcropping
38:57
near the house of the Lars, so that if he ever needed it right
39:05
where would be the place he would most likely need it would be there to
39:08
protect Luke, and so that hiding it somewhere in that outcropping would have made
39:15
so much more sense and of course way more sense than hiding it in the
39:22
middle of a sand dune where sand shift all the time. And yes,
39:25
I know, come on you, I get it. He's a he's a
39:30
Jedi. He can feel his own you know, kiber crystal. He'd know
39:35
exactly where he hit it. But it also made absolutely no sense story wise
39:40
to me whatsoever. When if he actually really needed it, you know,
39:49
he'd have to ride out into the middle of the desert and get it,
39:51
and then by the time he got back it would you know. So it
39:54
just I was like, there's so much better story sense place to actually put
39:59
this than here. M hmmm. I would offer, I love where your
40:05
thoughts are with the outcropping. I would counter that where I thought would be
40:09
perfect would actually be And I think this would be a nice callback to um
40:16
a moment he has with the Jawa. But have it in either a vaporator
40:25
that's at the Lars homestead or the vaporator outside his own thing, where you
40:32
could even set it up where he walks by it a couple of times,
40:36
you pay it no attention, and then he starts walking by and he just
40:38
pulls it off, and you go, oh, that was slick, right,
40:43
you know, hide it in plain sight sort of thing that would have
40:46
would have made a lot of sense. Yes, No, I think that's
40:51
you know, it's a great thought. I mean, I think either one
40:55
of those like just when you think, you know, this is the curse
41:01
of being a Star Wars fan like that we are, which is, you
41:06
know, you're really thinking very deeply about story, right, And I think
41:09
a part of that is that George Lucas made us think like that in so
41:15
many ways. And so yeah, that's that's something that just kind of bothered
41:20
me. M I in rewatching this episode. In rewatching the episode, though,
41:28
I really had to ask you here about the character of Reva and that
41:36
whole storyline there, because I think I'm still a little bit thrown off by
41:49
the performance choices of the actor there. And it's it's not it's not terrible,
42:05
but I'm I think I still have I still struggle with the performance choices.
42:10
Here is what I the best way to put it. I'm going to
42:15
reflect back before I try to answer anything. What performance choices do you think
42:22
aren't particularly successful here? Because I do subscribe to the Roger Ebert philosophy that
42:31
it's the director's responsibility to communicate to the actor what they want. Yeah,
42:37
I agree, So this would any shortcoming would ultimately fall at the feet of
42:43
the director. Yes, you know, you're one hundred percent right. And
42:45
I think what it is is that when you think back specifically of all the
42:51
All Star Wars villains, right, there is this theatricality and almost Shakespearean nature
42:59
to the performance that's given, and especially when it comes to Sith right uh
43:12
and or Inquisitors um. And I think that this performance lacks that uh.
43:20
And I wish that they had been pushed more towards that, because I think
43:24
the Grand Inquisitor gets it that type of performance, and so I would have
43:32
liked a little bit more of that in her. And I get the fact
43:38
that she's a rebel right even in the Inquisitorious, But I think that I
43:49
just there's something about the performance that just doesn't quite work for me in this
43:53
episode. I understand what you're saying. Her choices are so different from the
44:02
choices that are made by her fellow inquisitors that I understand what you're saying.
44:10
Where the fifth brother is very big, he's very brooding, he's very angry,
44:16
he's very you know, he's got a definite vibe going on, and
44:21
the Grand Inquisitor has a very Richard the third sort of feeling. He gives
44:27
speeches about how the Jedi it's an itch that they must scratch. You know.
44:32
It's a very grand uh see, it's a very grand sort of performance.
44:38
I see what you did there, I was paying kitchen. I try,
44:43
I try. What I would say is that I think that her performance
44:47
choices work, but they don't mesh with the other two inquisitors. That's the
44:58
problem. And that's that feels like a cop out for me to put it
45:01
that way. But again that falls to the director because at that point the
45:07
director has to say, you know, I love what you're giving me,
45:09
and I do like what she's giving here, but it's not you need to
45:19
take what you're giving and then you just turn the dial and you put it
45:22
in a slightly different expression. Like she's expressing the right things, it's just
45:30
the way she's expressing it is in a smaller character piece rather than a big
45:35
operatic exactly exactly. It lacks the space operass of Star Wars, and it
45:42
feels much more like I think you put it, perfectly, the same thing
45:45
that you would feel in an indie feel in an indie film, which would
45:51
work there, but doesn't I don't think quite work here. And so yeah,
45:59
I am, I'm I'm kind of interested to see. Just as a
46:05
final question for you then, just coming at this first episode, you know,
46:10
especially with the rewatch here, where do you think I mean, if
46:15
you were going to rate this, say, out of like five, how
46:20
what would you rate this in retrospect now that you've had so much time to
46:24
think about it? And I give it? And there are a lot of
46:30
people who feel that half stars are a cheat, might as well give a
46:35
score out of ten fair enough, I get it. I would give this
46:40
first episode and fully acknowledging that what's tough about it is there are parts of
46:50
it that I think are so perfectly exactly what they should be. I love
46:57
the opening with Order sixty six. It affected me this time more than it
47:01
affected me the first time. I don't know why, but I actually felt
47:07
that I felt such an you know, an empathetic, sympathetic horror with the
47:16
kids, saying to myself, oh, oh my goodness. And I you
47:22
know, I accurately guessed. The first time I watched it, I said,
47:24
oh, Riva's in there, Okay, I get it. But watching
47:29
again this time, for some reason, it just it hit me a certain
47:32
way, and I thought it was really effective. I thought McGregor was exactly
47:37
who he needed to be. And I think the guy that gets overshadowed a
47:40
lot as Joel Edgerton, is exactly who he needs to be here. Yes,
47:45
I think, however, there are certain choices, both directorially and editorially
47:54
and photographically that fall a little short. And so this I would give a
48:01
three and a half, which it's a first episode. A three and a
48:08
half is this is better than average. It's good. I'm gonna stick with
48:15
it. I'm willing to give this another episode. I'm going into this.
48:21
I might not think the thing that's so frustrating is up until it starts to
48:29
unravel with its focus with Leia. I'd probably be like, oh, this
48:32
is a four and a half. I'm willing to overlook so much stuff.
48:37
You know, Oh, Reva's not as Shakespearean as the other That's fine.
48:39
I don't care. Oh you know that that handheld scene whatever, dismiss it.
48:45
McGregor is so good. The idea of this story is so good.
48:49
I'm gonna I love it. I think it's great. But it's just that
48:52
last bit where loses focus that puts me at a three and a half.
48:58
What about you? I think that, especially in retrospect, you know,
49:04
uh, this is three out of five. Um, I think that you
49:10
know, and and and all. Honestly, UM, it's really McGregor that
49:20
is a full three there. I think just about everything else here is lacking
49:23
in some way, shape or form the show, especially with rewatching this first
49:30
episode, it just lacks the look in the field that I would have hoped
49:34
for for this. Um. You know, we talked about the idea of
49:38
it, you know, meant to be a film back in the day.
49:42
It just lacks that cinematic quality than I really want from this. Um.
49:49
You know, nothing in me more wants this to be. There's there's nothing
49:54
in me that couldn't want this more uh than to be something I absolutely adore
50:01
every every way. Um, it's just not as good as it could be.
50:08
And there's many ways I think that this could have been better. Um,
50:13
and that's frustrating, um even in the in the rewatch, even knowing
50:19
what's coming. And what's interesting is that as we watch through the series,
50:24
there are bits here to which are I think going to continually be issues,
50:32
specifically in the way that the show is shot. Like you were talking about
50:37
the idea that everything is too close quarters, um, and we're going to
50:44
Yeah, and cinematography is going to continue to be an issue. Effects are
50:46
going to continue to be an issue. Um. But and and all of
50:52
that is completely on display in this first episode. Um and so and yet
51:01
McGregor just he's it's like a tractor beam. He sucks me right in every
51:07
time he's on screen. And I think, you know, that might be
51:12
the biggest detriment of the episode is there's twenty minutes of the episode where he's
51:15
not on screen, and that's what hurts the episode, right. And So,
51:21
yeah, three out of five for this first episode. But I am
51:24
quite excited to be able to continue this rewatch. I think it's going to
51:30
be a lot of fun to see what surprises there might be, you know,
51:35
and what things may get better, which I really hope. So but
51:38
John, if people wanted to catch up with you and talk to you about
51:43
you know, will be when Kenobe or anything else where where would they find
51:46
you, Well, gosh, they would look out there and they would look
51:50
to Kessel Junkie and they would find me there like the ghost of Tom Joad
51:54
causing problems on the internet. You can also find me on the show called
52:00
house Lights here on the network where we look at the work of directors.
52:05
I co host that show with Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser. And you can
52:08
usually find me as the Jim J. Bullock guest seat over on the Hollywood
52:15
Squares. That is the six o two Club over on the TFM network,
52:19
which is a show that is hosted by you, Matthew Rushing. Yes,
52:23
I love when you're there. I'm glad you didn't call yourself the Sergeant Pepper,
52:29
you know, of the six or two Club because Paul is dead.
52:32
Yeah, I'm glad that you didn't refer to yourself as the JW. Pepper
52:37
of the six o two Club because nobody was appreciative of when he showed up
52:40
more than once in a Bond film. So absolutely love to have people check
52:46
us out on the six o two Club. Of course you can find me
52:49
as well on social media all over the place and in the name Matt Rushing
52:52
zero two. Also here on the Nerve Party Network, I've got a completed
52:55
show called owl Post with Raya Kaufman, and we talked out every single chapter
53:00
of the Harry Potter series, one chapter of the time. Over on the
53:02
TFM network, when I'm not in the six or two club, you can
53:06
find me doing literary tracks about the books and the compis of Star Trek,
53:08
the orb about Star Trek, Tea says nine or five about Star Trek,
53:13
Enterprise, Saddle Up about Strange New Worlds, and the Artificial Tango about Star
53:17
Trek. But card, but John, you know what, I think it's
53:22
time to go back to the temple. And you know, see what's left
53:28
here after order sixty six. I don't know. I really missed those little
53:32
Jedi wafers. They're so delicious. So I think it's time to close these
53:37
negotiations. It is time to close these negotiations. As I ponder, when
53:42
you had your order called in the Jedi cafeteria, did they always skip order
53:46
sixty six? Did it just go sixty five and sixty seven? Yeah?
53:52
You know what, let's go ahead and close these negotiations. Join the revolution,
54:02
Join the Nerd Party,