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#188 Jason Flom with Paul Hildwin · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: On the morning of September ninth, nineteen eighty five, Paul Hildwin,
0:06
Speaker 1: low on money and out of gas, was hitchhiking along
0:09
Speaker 1: US nineteen when a squabbling couple, Fronzetti Cox and William Haveerty,
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Speaker 1: picked him up. As their argument reached a fever pitch,
0:17
Speaker 1: the couple pulled over and got out of the car.
0:20
Speaker 1: Paul used this opportunity to take a few things for
0:23
Speaker 1: the car, including miss Cox's checkbook, before leaving the couple
0:26
Speaker 1: in their roadside scuffle. Four days later, on September thirteenth,
0:30
Speaker 1: mis Cox's nude body was found stuffed in the trunk
0:33
Speaker 1: of her car, tucked into some woods. Initially, Haveberty became
0:37
Speaker 1: the obvious suspect, until the investigation led to one of
0:40
Speaker 1: her checks having been cashed by Paul Hildwin, and a
0:43
Speaker 1: search of his house turned up the stolen items from
0:46
Speaker 1: the car. Paul's trial council was woefully inadequate, and was
0:50
Speaker 1: further handicapped by a team of prosecutors who buried witness
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Speaker 1: statements that claimed miss Cox had been alive up to
0:57
Speaker 1: forty eight hours after Paul had seen her, Among many
1:01
Speaker 1: other pieces of misleading testimony, junk science and outright lies.
1:06
Speaker 1: An FBI zerology expert falsely stated that fluids bounded the
1:10
Speaker 1: scene matched Paul, which led to a thirty four year
1:14
Speaker 1: fight to free him from death row. This is Wrongful
1:18
Speaker 1: Conviction with Jason Blamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
1:38
Speaker 1: Jason Flamm. That's me, of course, I'm your host, and
1:41
Speaker 1: today I'm really excited because we have a woman who
1:45
Speaker 1: is in our wrongful conviction community considered a legal legend.
1:49
Speaker 1: Her name is Leanne Goudie, a renowned defense attorney who
1:54
Speaker 1: has done phenomenal work on this case. So Leanne, welcome
1:57
Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. And with her is her client, Paul Hildewin.
2:02
Speaker 1: Paul served thirty five years on death row in Florida
2:05
Speaker 1: for a crime everyone should have known from the outset
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Speaker 1: he didn't commit. They may have known he didn't commit it,
2:11
Speaker 1: but one way or another, he survived thirty five years
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Speaker 1: on death row. He survived cancer, he survived, and he's
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Speaker 1: here today to share his.
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Speaker 2: Story with us. So Paul, welcome to rafel Conviction.
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Speaker 3: Thank you, Jason. I'm glad to be here.
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Speaker 1: And Paul just informed us that he's sitting on his porch,
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Speaker 1: breathing some fresh air and looking at some green grass
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Speaker 1: and stuff. So I'm glad to hear that you're living
2:32
Speaker 1: your best life to whatever extent is possible. So let's
2:35
Speaker 1: go back. Where did you grow up and what was
2:38
Speaker 1: your upbringing like? And if you can bring us right
2:40
Speaker 1: up to the time that this whole tragedy occurred.
2:43
Speaker 3: Now, I was born in a small town called Poughkeepsie,
2:45
Speaker 3: New York. I never really got to know my mother.
2:48
Speaker 3: She passed away when I was two years old. When
2:50
Speaker 3: I turned five, my father just decided he didn't want me,
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Speaker 3: so he would put me wherever he could. And there
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Speaker 3: was some good place that I was at, and there
3:02
Speaker 3: was some bad places. Into my teen years, you know,
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Speaker 3: like all most teenagers, you know, you experiment with drinking,
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Speaker 3: and it was all it's all kind of a haze,
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Speaker 3: you know. I was drunk so much. But when I
3:18
Speaker 3: turned eighteen, you know, I got in a little trouble,
3:23
Speaker 3: ended up doing a little prison time in New York.
3:25
Speaker 3: And when I got out, it was nineteen eighty four.
3:31
Speaker 3: I was twenty four years old, and I come down
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Speaker 3: here to Florida to live with my father. One of
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Speaker 3: the families that I lived with. Always taught me it
3:40
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what a parent does, you always have that
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Speaker 3: respect because they are your parent. And I always respected
3:48
Speaker 3: my father. I didn't really love him, but I respected
3:50
Speaker 3: him because he was my dad. So September twenty first,
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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five is when I was arrested for the
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Speaker 3: crime that put me on death row for a crime
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Speaker 3: that I did not commit.
4:00
Speaker 1: And Leanne, can you walk us through this awful crime
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Speaker 1: and how they managed to go off of the who
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Speaker 1: would have seemed to be the obvious aspect in target Paul?
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Speaker 4: Sure. So the victim allegedly went missing on September ninth
4:16
Speaker 4: of nineteen eighty five, which would have been a Monday.
4:20
Speaker 4: And the reason why they zeroed in on that particular
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Speaker 4: day is because well, her sister and her would speak
4:25
Speaker 4: practically every day. Well, the sister had gone two or
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Speaker 4: three days without hearing from the victim. So the sister
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Speaker 4: went over to the trailer where her sister had lived
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Speaker 4: with this boyfriend, William Haverty, the living boyfriend said, Hey,
4:39
Speaker 4: she left on Mondays. She was going to go do
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Speaker 4: laundry at the coin laundry. She was going to deposit
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Speaker 4: her SSI check that had come in over the weekend
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Speaker 4: at the bank. The victim had a little bit of
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Speaker 4: a reputation for being somebody that would frequent bars and
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Speaker 4: might randomly go home with a guy, so at first
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Speaker 4: the sister won to see if maybe something like that
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Speaker 4: had happened. When she still hadn't heard from the victim
5:05
Speaker 4: the next day, she went back to the trailer and
5:08
Speaker 4: insisted that the boyfriend go with her to the police
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Speaker 4: department to report her missing. And so on Thursday, September twelfth,
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Speaker 4: in the evening, they go to the Hernando County Sheriff's office.
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Speaker 4: They report the victim, whose name was ron Setti Cox, missing,
5:25
Speaker 4: and then the very next day, which was Friday, September thirteenth,
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Speaker 4: a group of boys find a deserted car with a
5:32
Speaker 4: really bad smell. Police respond and they find the victim nude,
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Speaker 4: stuffed in the trunk of the car with a ligature
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Speaker 4: around her neck. The immediate suspect is the living boyfriend,
5:46
Speaker 4: William Haveerty, who was about twenty years younger than the victim,
5:50
Speaker 4: and he just appeared kind of scurly to the police,
5:53
Speaker 4: and so they focused in on him. What ended up
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Speaker 4: happening was they wanted to see when she had gone
5:59
Speaker 4: to the bank to deposit the social Security check. And
6:03
Speaker 4: so they discovered that the last check that came in
6:07
Speaker 4: on the victim's bank account was cashed by an individual
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Speaker 4: named Paul Hildwin, and that he had come through the
6:15
Speaker 4: drive through of the bank on September ninth at approximately
6:18
Speaker 4: twelve thirty in the afternoon. At that point in time,
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Speaker 4: now law enforcement shifts their suspicion from the boyfriend, William Haverity,
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Speaker 4: over to Paul and basically become extremely myopic and focused
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Speaker 4: in with a tunnel vision only on Paul.
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Speaker 1: Right, And there was a lot of circumstantial evidence right,
6:38
Speaker 1: that was really just the result of an unfortunate coincidence,
6:41
Speaker 1: which goes back to the night of September.
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Speaker 3: Eighth, myself and three friends went to a drive in
6:49
Speaker 3: movie and I think it was a Clon Eastwood movie,
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Speaker 3: Pale Rider. We left there and I dropped the young
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Speaker 3: man that was I dropped him off at his house
7:00
Speaker 3: and then I started heading home. The two girls that
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Speaker 3: were with me, they lived, you know, just down the
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Speaker 3: street from me, so I was taking them home as well,
7:08
Speaker 3: and I ran out of gas, and I got like
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Speaker 3: a dollar or something worth of gas put it in
7:14
Speaker 3: the car. I put a little bit in the car
7:16
Speaker 3: bead to try to get a start, but the way
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Speaker 3: the car was setting it was on an angle, like
7:20
Speaker 3: almost in a ditch, and the gas wasn't getting pulled
7:23
Speaker 3: up into the engine. So I went to my house,
7:26
Speaker 3: my father's house, and I had to get a battery
7:30
Speaker 3: because I wore a battery down in the car trying
7:32
Speaker 3: to start it. So I got the battery and I
7:35
Speaker 3: got a ride back from a friend. Anyway, he got
7:37
Speaker 3: back to the car still wouldn't start, so I wasn't
7:40
Speaker 3: going to run that battery down, so we got in
7:43
Speaker 3: the car and we ended up just falling asleep.
7:45
Speaker 4: So when he's en route to take the girls home,
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Speaker 4: the car runs out of gas and stalls in front
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Speaker 4: of a bar called the Lone Star Bar. It's right
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Speaker 4: off of US nineteen. Paul wakes up somewhere between eight
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Speaker 4: thirty and nine am. Girls are still sleeping. He decides,
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Speaker 4: I'm going to walk home and see if I can
8:04
Speaker 4: either borrow my dad's truck or get some money to
8:07
Speaker 4: try to put some more gas in those cars. So
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Speaker 4: he's walking north on US nineteen and the victim and
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Speaker 4: her boyfriend William Haveerty are driving north on US nineteen.
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Speaker 5: They pull over.
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Speaker 4: He tells them, Hey, I'm trying to get up to
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Speaker 4: my dad's house. He gets in the back seat. They're
8:25
Speaker 4: driving to the dad's house. She and the boyfriend start
8:29
Speaker 4: arguing about he's sick of her going out with other men.
8:32
Speaker 4: She's basically telling him off. The fight is getting pretty
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Speaker 4: loud and hostile Paul sitting in the back seat. In
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Speaker 4: the back seat is the victim's purse. Within her purse
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Speaker 4: is like a separate checkbook holder, and the victim says,
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Speaker 4: I've had enough of you. She stops the car. She says,
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Speaker 4: get out. Boyfriend says I'm not getting out. Victim says
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Speaker 4: she's getting out. The two of them end up getting out.
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Speaker 4: They slap each other around the lift little bit. All
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Speaker 4: of this is going on. At this Paul's not that
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Speaker 4: far from his house, so he grabs the checkbook thing
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Speaker 4: and leaves, and the last thing he sees is that
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Speaker 4: the boyfriend is on top of the victim and his
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Speaker 4: hands around her neck. He's like, I'm not getting in
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Speaker 4: the middle of this because the boyfriend has threatened him,
9:22
Speaker 4: and he walks home. Once he gets home, his Dad's
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Speaker 4: not there, gets some leftover money, hitches a ride back
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Speaker 4: to where the girls are. He buys another two dollars
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Speaker 4: worth of gas. They level out the car, He puts
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Speaker 4: the gas in the car, drops the girls off at
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Speaker 4: home in his car. He then forges one of the
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Speaker 4: victims checks, goes to the bank, cashes the check, giving
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Speaker 4: his ID the checks for seventy five dollars.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: So, ultimately, because Paul, you know, foolishly, let's call it
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Speaker 1: what it is, took a few items from the car,
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Speaker 1: a radio, a ring, and of course the that we
10:00
Speaker 1: talked about. When the attention of the authorities shifts to him,
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Speaker 1: they probably had some sort of eureka moment like, oh,
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Speaker 1: look at this, we got sort of, for lack of
10:11
Speaker 1: a better word, the smoking gun. And at that point,
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Speaker 1: like you said, the tunnel vision sets in. He really
10:16
Speaker 1: needs a great lawyer. And that's not at all how
10:19
Speaker 1: this played out.
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Speaker 4: Right, So on November twenty first, they get a grand
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Speaker 4: jury to indict him with first degree murder and they
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Speaker 4: announced that they're seeking death. So this particular attorney, Dan Lewin,
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Speaker 4: had just graduated from Florida State Law School. He had
10:34
Speaker 4: never done a murder case. He had never done even
10:38
Speaker 4: a serious robbery case. So on April twenty fourth of
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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, he gets appointed to this death penalty
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Speaker 4: case and they pick a jury four months later on
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Speaker 4: August twenty fifth. In between that time period, he conducted
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Speaker 4: absolutely no investigation. This defense lawyer took depositions, and the
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Speaker 4: significance of that is the lack of thoroughness. In addition
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Speaker 4: to that, it is also clear when you review those
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Speaker 4: depositions that the prosecution was not giving him all the
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Speaker 4: police reports. In addition to that, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's
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Speaker 4: office decide, you know what, We're not going to use
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Speaker 4: the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which was the state
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Speaker 4: agency that would do the lab work for the police
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Speaker 4: agencies in Florida. We're going to send this stuff to
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Speaker 4: the FBI. And it's at the FBI where they're doing
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Speaker 4: the so called roology, hair examination and tool mark examinations
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Speaker 4: on some chrome strips that they believe came off of
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Speaker 4: the alleged victims car.
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Speaker 1: You've just identified several of the key elements of junk
11:41
Speaker 1: science that we talk about in our podcast Raflicviction Junk Science.
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Speaker 2: But there's so much more to this.
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Speaker 1: You have circumstantial evidence, you have tunnel vision, tons of
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Speaker 1: junk science, and then you have incumbent defense attorney, and
11:54
Speaker 1: you also have experts that are willing to lie on
11:56
Speaker 1: behalf of the prosecution. And we know that the prosecutor
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Speaker 1: at the present to the soroology report from an FBI's
12:02
Speaker 1: forensics expert who falsely claimed that bodily fluids found on
12:06
Speaker 1: two pieces of crime scene evidence, the underwear the woman's
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Speaker 1: underwear and a washcloth, both matched Paul Hildwin. The expert
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Speaker 1: also claimed that Paul was among only eleven percent of
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Speaker 1: the world's white male population who could have deposited the fluids,
12:20
Speaker 1: and that the fluids could not have come from the
12:23
Speaker 1: victim's a strange boyfriend. So this is a mountain of shit,
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Speaker 1: I mean.
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Speaker 4: Paul, shit is the appropriate word.
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Speaker 2: Thank you. I chose that carefully.
12:35
Speaker 4: In defense of mister Lewan on this part. They sprung
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Speaker 4: on the soroology evidence that did not come out until
12:42
Speaker 4: opening statements, and he immediately objected and when they approached
12:46
Speaker 4: the bench, he said, this can't come in. I was
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Speaker 4: told that the zerology evidence was of no value, everything
12:52
Speaker 4: was too degraded. They couldn't get anything of it, and
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Speaker 4: now they're telling the jury that it links my client
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Speaker 4: and they can't use that, and the prosecution and goes,
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Speaker 4: you want to bet that's on the record, and the
13:03
Speaker 4: judge says, yeah, no, this is opening. They can do it,
13:06
Speaker 4: and we'll address it during the trial. And then when
13:10
Speaker 4: they come to the point where he objects again during
13:13
Speaker 4: the trial, it's the friday before Labor Day weekend, and
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Speaker 4: the judge says, well, you've got till Tuesday to be ready.
13:21
Speaker 4: Three days. And remember what we had to work with
13:24
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty five. There wasn't internet research. When we
13:28
Speaker 4: researched case law. We went the old fashioned way into
13:32
Speaker 4: the law library, which took a lot of time. So
13:34
Speaker 4: he basically gives us inexperience, unqualified lawyer three days to
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Speaker 4: familiarize himself with roology, evidence and secretor and nonsecretor. You
13:44
Speaker 4: have got to be kidding me.
13:46
Speaker 1: So September fourth, nineteen eighty six, you were found guilty,
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Speaker 1: and September seventeenth, the jury, by a unanimous vote of
13:53
Speaker 1: twelfth to nothing, sentence you to death.
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Speaker 3: Even though the defense was what it was. I didn't
14:00
Speaker 3: expect that when they sentenced me to death. I just
14:05
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think my mind just shut down.
14:08
Speaker 3: After that, what I call the real living hell started.
14:12
Speaker 3: You're basically in that cell twenty four hours a day.
14:15
Speaker 3: You get three shours a week. You get to go
14:19
Speaker 3: to the yard twice a week, and it's a little
14:21
Speaker 3: tiny yard. And if you don't go to the yard,
14:25
Speaker 3: you're just in that cell twenty four hours a day,
14:27
Speaker 3: and you become desensitized.
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Speaker 5: Really.
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Speaker 3: After like the first four years, I just disconnected myself.
14:36
Speaker 3: I didn't care about time, I didn't care about holidays.
14:40
Speaker 3: I didn't you know, none of that stuff mattered. What
14:43
Speaker 3: was important to me was just surviving. After my dad
14:48
Speaker 3: passed in nineteen ninety, I didn't have a visit until
14:51
Speaker 3: two thousand and six. My life was in that cell.
14:54
Speaker 3: I did everything I ate in there. I washed all
14:57
Speaker 3: my clothes and there. I mean, my whole life was
15:00
Speaker 3: in that little box. In nineteen eighty eight eighty nine,
15:04
Speaker 3: a very good friend of mine, Kenny Hardwick, he gave
15:08
Speaker 3: up and he was in the cell next to me,
15:11
Speaker 3: and I could see him. The windows were not in
15:14
Speaker 3: the cell. They were like eight to ten feet away
15:17
Speaker 3: from the front of the cell. The cell fronts were
15:19
Speaker 3: all open. We could talk, we could pass things back
15:23
Speaker 3: and forth. And I watched them hang himself. I couldn't
15:29
Speaker 3: stop them. I couldn't help them.
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Speaker 5: You know. I went to screaming for the police.
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Speaker 3: They come and tell me to shut my fort mouth.
15:48
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17:01
Speaker 4: I believe it was either nineteen eighty nine or nineteen ninety.
17:05
Speaker 4: Governor Martinez signed Paul's death worn and Paul has the
17:09
Speaker 4: fortuitous opportunity to have a terrific lawyer named Marty McClain,
17:14
Speaker 4: and so Marty begins to investigate. And at that point,
17:19
Speaker 4: the state attorney is different. And so when Marty McLain
17:23
Speaker 4: issues the requests for Paul's file and all the police
17:27
Speaker 4: reports and whatever, they actually turn it over, and that's
17:30
Speaker 4: when he discovers all these things that either were not
17:35
Speaker 4: disclosed to mister Lewin or that mister Lewin just didn't
17:39
Speaker 4: bother to use, like the victim's nephew that says that
17:44
Speaker 4: he was having drinks with the victim on Monday night,
17:47
Speaker 4: September ninth until eleven fifteen pm. Meanwhile, according to the
17:52
Speaker 4: state's theory at trial, Paul had allegedly killed her somewhere
17:55
Speaker 4: between nine point fifteen and ten in the morning. But
17:58
Speaker 4: yet the nephew is having drinks with her as the
18:01
Speaker 4: boyfriend was mad and sulking in a corner well. That
18:06
Speaker 4: never came out in trial. That nephew was never deposed
18:09
Speaker 4: by mister Lewin. The boyfriend was allowed to represent this
18:13
Speaker 4: really fabulous relationship with Throng. So Marty McLain discovers that
18:17
Speaker 4: when law enforcement searched the victim and her boyfriend's house,
18:22
Speaker 4: there was a note in the garbage can that said
18:24
Speaker 4: if you don't like living here, you can fuck off
18:27
Speaker 4: and die. That never came out during trial. I mean
18:30
Speaker 4: it just went on and on and on. So he
18:32
Speaker 4: discovered all this stuff. He found what's called the thirty
18:34
Speaker 4: eight to fifty motion, which is a motion to find
18:37
Speaker 4: the defense lawyer ineffective of counsel and that if Paul
18:42
Speaker 4: had had effective assistance of counsel or had received this
18:46
Speaker 4: Brady information and it had been used, it would have
18:49
Speaker 4: changed the outcome of the trial. And the judge denies
18:53
Speaker 4: both and says that Paul had effective assistance of counsel.
18:57
Speaker 4: It goes up on appeal to the Florida Supreme Court Court.
19:00
Speaker 4: The Florida Supreme Court hangs her hat on the soroology
19:04
Speaker 4: evidence to say, no, it wouldn't have affected the outcome
19:07
Speaker 4: of the trial. In first phase. But we do find
19:11
Speaker 4: that the penalty phase was ineffective, and they grant Paul
19:15
Speaker 4: the opportunity to have a second penalty phase, and so
19:20
Speaker 4: that happens in nineteen ninety seven and the jury comes
19:24
Speaker 4: back eight to four for death. Remember at the time
19:28
Speaker 4: in Florida, it only required a majority of jurors to
19:31
Speaker 4: vote for death. So Paul gets death again and so CCRC,
19:36
Speaker 4: the group that Marty McClain worked for, contacts the Innocence
19:39
Speaker 4: Project they get involved in. During all that investigation, they
19:44
Speaker 4: also discover another witness that said she had had a
19:49
Speaker 4: conversation with the victim at three o'clock in the afternoon
19:52
Speaker 4: on the Wednesday after she supposedly died. They also started
19:56
Speaker 4: attacking the soerology and they seek for it to get
19:59
Speaker 4: into they tested. When they do, at this point, DNA
20:03
Speaker 4: is in existence. They discover that the DNA on the
20:07
Speaker 4: panties and on the washrag, which is what was sold
20:11
Speaker 4: to the jury in nineteen eighty six and what the
20:14
Speaker 4: Supreme Court relied upon in sustaining his guilty verdict both
20:19
Speaker 4: the first time and during the thirty eight to fifty hearing,
20:23
Speaker 4: do not match Paul.
20:25
Speaker 3: It was February of two thousand and three, we went
20:28
Speaker 3: to the Circuit Court with the test results.
20:32
Speaker 4: So that ends up happening that they discover, Okay, it's
20:36
Speaker 4: not Paul's biological material on this, we want you to
20:40
Speaker 4: run it through the CODA system, and they start getting
20:43
Speaker 4: pushed back from the state and the Attorney General's office.
20:46
Speaker 4: And this continues and continues to get litigated until two
20:51
Speaker 4: thousand and eleven, where finally the Supreme Court says, put
20:56
Speaker 4: it in the CODA system. When they run the DNA
20:59
Speaker 4: into the CODA system, it matches William Haveerty, the victim's
21:04
Speaker 4: living boyfriend, and at the time he was incarcerated for
21:08
Speaker 4: sixteen counts of sexual battery for sexually molesting his stepdaughter.
21:13
Speaker 1: And here we go again. I'm so sick of these
21:16
Speaker 1: stories where the wrong person gets locked up the actual
21:20
Speaker 1: perpetrator remains free and goes on to commit these unspeakable
21:24
Speaker 1: acts against people who never should have been victimized in
21:28
Speaker 1: the first place if the system had worked the way.
21:32
Speaker 4: It should so then at that point Nina Morrison and
21:35
Speaker 4: Morty maclain are pushing the Supreme Court to give Paul,
21:40
Speaker 4: based on this newly discovered evidence, a new trial, with
21:43
Speaker 4: the state giving pushback under the grounds, hey, this was
21:46
Speaker 4: the sex crimes case. And finally, in June of twenty fourteen,
21:50
Speaker 4: the Florida Supreme Court grants Paul on new trial.
21:54
Speaker 1: Okay, but now, how did this case, of all the
21:56
Speaker 1: cases end up on your desk?
21:58
Speaker 4: Nina Morrison called me and asked, could I fly down
22:01
Speaker 4: to Tampa and meet with you and talk to you
22:03
Speaker 4: about this case. Anybody that knows Nina Morrison, she's like, Sam,
22:07
Speaker 4: I am, don't let her in your house because she's
22:10
Speaker 4: going to convince you to do whatever she wants you
22:12
Speaker 4: to do. And so she came into the office and
22:15
Speaker 4: persuaded me to agree to do this case pro bono
22:19
Speaker 4: beginning in August of twenty fourteen until it concluded on
22:23
Speaker 4: March ninth of twenty twenty.
22:26
Speaker 2: Two, thousand and three.
22:28
Speaker 1: The DNA proves DNA we're talking about right, was produced
22:32
Speaker 1: that proved that Paul didn't do it, or at a minimum,
22:35
Speaker 1: that the state's case was completely wrong, and that the
22:38
Speaker 1: main piece of evidence that they basedid I was proven false.
22:41
Speaker 1: And yet it took seventeen more years to bring Paul home.
22:46
Speaker 1: And then even that comes with an asterisk right.
22:49
Speaker 4: You know, I get appointed to the case in twenty fourteen,
22:52
Speaker 4: and so the stay they still stood on the position
22:56
Speaker 4: that they felt that Paul was guilty, and so to them,
23:01
Speaker 4: the quote fair end quote option was to let him
23:05
Speaker 4: plead to second degree murder, get credit for time served,
23:09
Speaker 4: and put him on lifetime probation. So Paul's big mandate
23:14
Speaker 4: to me from the beginning was I would like to
23:16
Speaker 4: feel grass underneath my feet before I die. And so
23:21
Speaker 4: I would talk to him about these offers the state
23:24
Speaker 4: was making and you know, explain to him why it
23:28
Speaker 4: was basically a no brainer for us to say no
23:30
Speaker 4: to that and continue forward. But we did talk about
23:33
Speaker 4: would you take anything to guarantee that you would get out?
23:38
Speaker 4: And we have kind of talked about, well, I would
23:40
Speaker 4: plead reluctantly, but I would plead no contest to a
23:44
Speaker 4: second degree murder and time served, and I'll even take
23:48
Speaker 4: some probation afterwards, because i know I'm not going to
23:51
Speaker 4: commit any crimes, and so I'll do that. So fast
23:55
Speaker 4: forward to Friday morning before trial, March sixth, and the
24:00
Speaker 4: prosecution says to me, would he still plead to a
24:05
Speaker 4: second and time served? But we're going to want probation,
24:09
Speaker 4: and Paul was like, yes, he goes, you know, I
24:11
Speaker 4: want the bird in the hand. I want to know
24:13
Speaker 4: I'm going to get out. I don't want to take
24:15
Speaker 4: any risks, so he pled. You know, it was totally
24:19
Speaker 4: Paul's decision. We were one hundred percent ready to proceed
24:22
Speaker 4: forward with the trial.
24:24
Speaker 1: Paul March ninth, twenty twenty. I've watched the video of
24:29
Speaker 1: you walking out more times than I want to admit.
24:33
Speaker 1: It's so incredible. What was that like?
24:37
Speaker 3: And when I walked out the door of the jail,
24:39
Speaker 3: I was met by Lean Goudie and kate O'Shea. I
24:45
Speaker 3: actually couldn't believe that it was really happening. And that
24:49
Speaker 3: day when we left the jail and there was the
24:51
Speaker 3: first thing I wanted to do was feel grass under
24:55
Speaker 3: my feet, my bare feet, just to walk on grass.
24:58
Speaker 3: He goes inside the jail, Well, then the prisons. I
25:01
Speaker 3: mean it's all concrete and steel.
25:02
Speaker 5: That's it. You don't get the walk on the grass.
25:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just the simplest thing. That was a big
25:10
Speaker 3: thing for me. I wanted to walk on the grass,
25:12
Speaker 3: and as the video shows, that's exactly what they did.
25:15
Speaker 3: They took me to a nearby park, and that was
25:20
Speaker 3: the most special part about it.
25:22
Speaker 2: Really walking on grass.
25:24
Speaker 3: People don't understand what we take for granted every single
25:28
Speaker 3: day of our life. Closing the door by yourself, stepping
25:31
Speaker 3: on grass, smelling fresh cut grass. It made me realize
25:38
Speaker 3: just what myself included everybody takes for granted. Then Miss
25:43
Speaker 3: Goudie and her partner Kim Kahn Kato'sha and Anthony Scott,
25:48
Speaker 3: they took me to Cracker Barrel on the way down
25:50
Speaker 3: to Tampa, and I had never been to the Cracker
25:54
Speaker 3: Barrel and that was my very first that was my
25:58
Speaker 3: very first freedom.
26:01
Speaker 4: I just want to interrupt so nobody thinks I'm at cheapskate.
26:04
Speaker 4: It was the best restaurant in Hernando County.
26:07
Speaker 2: Thank you for clarifying that.
26:21
Speaker 1: Now, Paul, this was touched on a bit, but I mean,
26:24
Speaker 1: it wasn't bad enough that the state was trying to
26:27
Speaker 1: kill you, but cancer.
26:29
Speaker 3: At first, it was just recognized that I had a
26:31
Speaker 3: lump in front of my left ear and the gland
26:34
Speaker 3: in my throat on the left side was swollen up.
26:38
Speaker 3: And I went and I saw an ear, nose, and
26:40
Speaker 3: throat doctor and so he did a biopsy on both
26:46
Speaker 3: the lump and the swollen gland, and it came back
26:50
Speaker 3: to be non Hotchkins lymphoma. So I went through surgery,
26:55
Speaker 3: through radiation, then I started chemo.
26:59
Speaker 1: You know, and thankfully you made it, but cancer wasn't done.
27:02
Speaker 1: You still had to go through it two more fucking times.
27:06
Speaker 3: In twenty eleven or twenty twelve is when it showed
27:11
Speaker 3: up again.
27:12
Speaker 5: The next time I believe it was.
27:14
Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen twenty seventeen. By that time, I was
27:20
Speaker 3: used to the weight loss, the sickness, and.
27:24
Speaker 5: No hair.
27:25
Speaker 3: I lost every single piece of hair on my body.
27:27
Speaker 3: I looked like Uncle fester On.
27:30
Speaker 1: Jesus Paul, You're just really fucking hard to kill y.
27:34
Speaker 1: I don't know how else I think. Yeah, I mean
27:36
Speaker 1: the state can't. Cancer can't.
27:39
Speaker 4: He survived cancer on death row, so clearly you know
27:44
Speaker 4: God didn't want to kill him. If he was supposed
27:47
Speaker 4: to be dead, he would be dead.
27:49
Speaker 1: Speaking of the magic of the universe, I must take
27:52
Speaker 1: this opportunity to congratulate lean on her election to the
27:56
Speaker 1: Thirteenth Circuit Court Judge Leanne GODDI.
28:00
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you.
28:01
Speaker 4: Typically when you're a new judge, you do rotations through
28:08
Speaker 4: family law or one of the other areas prior to
28:12
Speaker 4: going over to criminal, but I'm being placed right in criminal,
28:16
Speaker 4: so i will be taking over a circuit criminal division.
28:21
Speaker 4: So I'm very excited.
28:22
Speaker 1: That's amazing and it makes me so happy both for
28:26
Speaker 1: you and also knowing that someone from the defense side
28:29
Speaker 1: of the bar will be sitting on the bench.
28:31
Speaker 2: So all the best.
28:32
Speaker 1: And on that note, we're now going to go to
28:35
Speaker 1: the segment of our show called Closing Arguments. It's the
28:38
Speaker 1: part where I first of all thank both of you
28:40
Speaker 1: from the bottom of my heart for being here and
28:42
Speaker 1: sharing your story and of course your spirit with us.
28:46
Speaker 1: And then now I am going to shut off my microphone,
28:50
Speaker 1: kick back in my chair, close my eyes, and just
28:53
Speaker 1: listen to whatever you want to say. We'll start with you,
28:57
Speaker 1: Leanne and then finish with Paul.
29:00
Speaker 4: You know, it was my privilege to represent Paul. I'm
29:05
Speaker 4: so grateful that Nina Morrison entrusted his case to me,
29:10
Speaker 4: and I'm grateful that Paul trusted me to represent him.
29:14
Speaker 4: I think that it's always an honor when somebody that's
29:17
Speaker 4: accused of a crime puts their trust in you as
29:21
Speaker 4: a lawyer to do the best you can for them,
29:24
Speaker 4: and I'm just very, very grateful to God, frankly, that
29:30
Speaker 4: I was able to deliver on Paul's request to be
29:34
Speaker 4: able to let him feel grass underneath his feet before
29:38
Speaker 4: he died. And hopefully he'll have many, many more years
29:41
Speaker 4: to live and continue smelling grass and cut grass and
29:44
Speaker 4: feeling it and living peacefully and happily out in society
29:50
Speaker 4: like he should be.
29:52
Speaker 2: Paul over to you.
29:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, Leanne and I have talked several times, you know,
29:57
Speaker 3: about my belief in God. I believe that that's what
30:01
Speaker 3: got me through thirty five years. I also believe it
30:05
Speaker 3: be the reason why Nina Morrison was put on my case,
30:09
Speaker 3: why Leanne Goudi was put on my case. It was
30:13
Speaker 3: by the grace of God. I've been blessed so much
30:17
Speaker 3: since I've been out because of the Innocent Project in
30:20
Speaker 3: New York, the Innocent Project in Florida. They are a
30:24
Speaker 3: nonprofit organization and because of the donations. It's one reason
30:30
Speaker 3: a big region why I'm sitting here where I live now.
30:33
Speaker 3: There's an organization that helped me find this place, and
30:37
Speaker 3: it's called the Sunny Center. They are a non profit
30:40
Speaker 3: organization and they are the ones that have helped me
30:44
Speaker 3: since I've been out. They have been there every day,
30:48
Speaker 3: every step of the way. They also need donations in
30:51
Speaker 3: order to help people in my position and exonnaies.
30:55
Speaker 5: And you know.
30:57
Speaker 3: They've gotten me health insurance, They've helped me get my
31:01
Speaker 3: driver's license. They're there, I mean, but they won't be
31:04
Speaker 3: there if people don't make donations.
31:08
Speaker 5: And I believe they they.
31:09
Speaker 3: Were put there by God as well, you know, in
31:11
Speaker 3: my life.
31:12
Speaker 5: And I want to.
31:13
Speaker 3: Say thank you, leek LeAnn. The freedom is so sweet.
31:19
Speaker 3: You know, you gave me back my life and I
31:22
Speaker 3: thank you with all my heart.
31:25
Speaker 1: Always, Paul always, thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction
31:35
Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Please support your local innocence projects and
31:39
Speaker 1: go to the link in our bio to see how
31:40
Speaker 1: you can help. I'd like to thank our production team,
31:43
Speaker 1: Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn and Kevin Warnis. The music on
31:47
Speaker 1: the show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated
31:50
Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
31:54
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.
31:58
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava
32:01
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one