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A Culture of Despair · Movie Meltdown

• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We should probably let people know that this is a
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Patreon exclusive episode.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Is it really?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: And I mean, it was. Was it not the greatest conversation.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: You've ever had? Man, I just never realized I would
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: one day be Patreon-exclusive content.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, we are all over the map, and yet
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: somehow we tie it all together, and we never ramble on,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and we're super smart about everything. Everything.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Especially names.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Anyway, yeah, I think you should definitely listen to ridiculous
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: things that we say like this. That I also feel
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: like we're hitting almost like a point of oversaturation of
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: not likable characters that we spend a lot of time.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Like it became a thing like kind of mid 90s,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I guess. It became sort of an underlying. Well, I'm like.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like the most pop culture version of it because
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I remember like midway in watching tons of Seinfeld. Yeah.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And it's only later I look back and go, these
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: are terrible people. Oh, yeah. By the end of the series,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: they even acknowledge you guys are horrible people. Why are
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: we going along with this?
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I have an uncomfortable relationship with Frasier for that reason.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah. So it's like it became sort of a
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: fashionable thing. And then as time went on and we
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: hit like the era of Breaking Bad where it's like
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: not only is this an unlikable character– He does deplorable things.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Like you hit a point of anti-hero that became almost
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: too much and it became.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So acceptable at that point. Thank you, Game of Thrones.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it became so acceptable that then suddenly like
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: almost everything became that. So now it's so rare that
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I watch something and be like, you know what? I
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: like this character. Like it's so nice to see like
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a return to an old version of like This is
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: our good guy and he does nice things and he's
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: got an arc that like kind of is helping people
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: or at least trying to accomplish something with his time.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Is that Thanos is presented as the heroic character, you know,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: in that film and this has been widely commented on.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: It's a great move by Marvel. But the thing I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: would mention is that. This movie, he basically says, look,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: the only hope for any kind of species is this
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: massive population control effort, you know, essentially. Now, here's the thing.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Malthusian. I don't agree with these sort
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of population control theories. I think it's actually, I think
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: it's a crack pottery sort of a thing. But the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: thing that was most sad about that is essentially this
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: villain presents, okay, this is my plan. This is what
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I'm doing. This is why. None of the heroes actually
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: objected to it aside from the fact that it was
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: essentially genocide. But that is, in my view, kind of
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: a technicality. None of them said, no, what you want
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: is wrong because blah, blah, blah. No, in fact, pretty
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: much the film bent over backwards to demonstrate that Thanos
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: was likely right.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: That's what I said on our episode. I was just like,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: that's the sad thing is he's got a point. And
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: you want to not be on his side because- It's horrible.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: He's killing so many people and people that we love
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and not just characters we love, but like everyone else
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: out there. And like, it's hard by the end of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: it to not look at the statistics part of it,
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: like the mental part of it, not the emotional part,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: but the mental part and go, damn, he's got a point.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, no, I think that's actually one of
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the fundamental differences, though, between the core Roddenberry vision and
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: some other versions of Star Trek and other sci-fi shows
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: is that question of what is human nature and how
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: does it... Roddenberry had what I think is actually a laudable,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: if debatable, view on human nature, where human beings actually
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: possess the potential to improve and get better, so that
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: we get to a place where actually... What was it?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Will Riker... Friend of the show.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Jonathan Frakes. Great guy. He likes to tell the story
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: in interviews, which I was always fond of, where he
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: says that Gene Roddenberry.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: So if you want to hear that kind of really
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: intelligent comments on movies and music and. random other things.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: That came about. Or future interviews with random people such
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: as myself.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: You should definitely go to our Patreon page. Again, if
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you don't know how to spell Patreon.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: That's fine.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Go to moviemouthdown.com.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're there all the time. Which you should
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: be looking for new content.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Which is awesome. How often did you say it was updated?
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I'd say once a week.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Once a week. You get a brand new episode. That's
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: really exciting.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: We used to do other stuff, but nobody paid any attention.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So if you want to write stuff for the website,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: you can do that too.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: But nobody wants to do that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So, That's why I focused on the audio, and we
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: do that every week.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: It's where you belong, Brian.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I feel that. As time's gone on, I've realized this
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: is my calling. It took me a long time to
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: find it, but this is why I'm still, this many
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: years in, still doing it.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Well, the truth is it actually didn't take you any
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: time to find it. You've been doing it for years.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: It does explain why I had that little mini cassette
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: recorder that I used to carry around.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: As a kid. We were just talking about crappy jobs
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: before we started. We were talking about crappy jobs. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the thing is, and I think this is true for
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of adults, it's not true for me yet,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: but that's because I'm a failed adult, is for a
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: lot of our, well, a little bit. I mean, the
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: 30s is the age of coming to terms with things,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, look forward to that, kids. But I think
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: that many of us find ourselves, like, we're like, oh, man,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: what am I supposed to be doing? What am I
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: supposed to be doing? And then you kind of look
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: around and realize, wait a minute. I've been doing this
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: for 10 years. I barely think about it, but it
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: is the thing that I want to do all the time. Well,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: with me, I also was doing it well before that. Yeah.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And they're just, most of the time, aside from that
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: little recorder, a lot of the time when I was
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: doing it with other people, I wasn't recording it. But
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I spent so much time working around other people who
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: were movie geeks. sometimes surrounded by movies.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Shades of Tarantino there.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And we would sit there and have these same discussions
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that we're having now, sometimes with the same people that
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: are on the show now, because I'll dig them up
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and be like.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Look, we need to bring him back. We need to
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: go back to where we used to be.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And, like, just start with new movies and new conversations.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: And so, like, you really do, like, sometimes realize, oh,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: what I need to be doing is what I've been
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: doing all along. I just need to find a more useful,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: more productive way to do it. And that's what this
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: show has become.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I know I never thought to myself I would
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: have a theater career.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: And yet here you are, superstar of the stage.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Well, and yet here I am. Well, luckily I still
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: don't have a theater career because that's the nature of
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: having a theater career.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: That was coming to terms.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So remember those things you had called dreams, kids? Well,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: it's better if you just cut those right on out.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: But no, seriously, like, yeah, no, it's true. You kind
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: of look back and you realize, oh, wow, this is
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: actually the thing that I've kind of always been doing anyway.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: And it seems like I guess I am good at
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: it or i should but serviceable yeah well it doesn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: matter i was having i was i'm actually having a
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: conversation with a friend of mine who's a new york
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: times best-selling author brag brag uh but she was talking
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: about a recent novel that she wrote she but here's
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the deal is that she got a degree from georgetown
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: in law and she's uh i'm sure was headed to
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: be a very competent lawyer she's a very intelligent woman
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: uh when i knew her in college and uh but
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that didn't really pan out. And instead she wound up
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: because she had this time on her hands while she
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: was working crappy internships and really didn't have a whole
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: lot of things on her plate. Uh, she wound up
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: writing this book and it became enormously successful. And, uh,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I'm really proud of her. Uh, but the point is,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: is that, is that she was talking about how weirdly
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: ashamed we were both sharing this cause I'm a writer
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: as well. And, and, and there, this weird shame that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: we feel cause we all know if you're a writer and,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: you know people who are better writers than you. And
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: chances are, like, they're like your friends and your cousins.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: You know, like Alma, like, in other words, you... You
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: don't want to admit it, but secretly to yourself. Well,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: it's not even that. It's just that you know, it's
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: like you're thinking, you go through this massive... By the way,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the life of a writer is a life of fear, children.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: It's a life of fear and insecurity that you will
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: never escape from. I think that's an artist of any sort.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: True, true.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely true. But that's just it. Because the thing is,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: you know these people, these other people, who, yeah, no,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: they're not artists. They're something else. They're like a doctor
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: or something. And you know what? They do the thing
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: that you think is special about you better than you
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: will ever do it. And they do it in their
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: spare time when they feel like it. It's really annoying
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: when you see that. It really is. But the thing
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: about that, though, is that that's not the justification for
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: doing art. Talent is not itself the justification for doing anything.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Look at Ed Wood, one of the century's greatest filmmakers.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: It's great. No, no, no. Don't need to cut a thing.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: But no, seriously, though, the thing is what makes you
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: worthy of doing something is the fact that you're setting
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: out to do it. You're setting out to put yourself
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: on the line and make this your livelihood or your
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: at least your hobby or whatever. This is your investment.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: This is your time. you don't need a better justification
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: than that so what if if your cousin is a
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: better writer than you are uh the very fact that
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: you're the one sitting down and you're like man i'm
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: gonna write novels that's a thing i'm gonna do that
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: is your justification for being a writer not the fact
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: that oh man well i entered this writing competition i
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: won all the awards back in fifth grade like that
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: is not the justification for anything right don't don't let
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: your talent or lack of talent or any of that
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: stuff define what you think you need to be doing
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: with your life, because ultimately it's whatever it is that
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: you are doing with your life. You know, that's that's
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: the circular answer for that one. So, hey, man, I'm
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: just saying there may be better podcasts out there.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I don't believe it.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: But yours is the only one I want to be on.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Mine is the only one that I give my time
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and soul to produce. Yeah. And that's why I try
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: to reach out to people and be like, if you
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: believe in any of this nonsense that I do, and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: there's a handful of people that do, I realize there's
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of people that just don't care. And I've
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: come to terms with that over the years. But I'm like,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: if there's anyone out there that hasn't signed on but
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: is like, no, I at least... respect what you're trying
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: to do and respect that you're still at it this
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: far in just kick in a couple of bucks. And it, it,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it does give me faith. The fact that the handful
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of people that have so far, I'm like, you know,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: at least this group of people is like, you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the effort you put in. I like how
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: much work you put into like booking guests or, or,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: or can, Again, just getting you guys to sit down
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: with me. That's why sometimes it goes as far as
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: years go by, and I'm like, oh, I haven't sat
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: down with Sterling in a long time. It's just coordinating
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: people to sit down and talk about something is such
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: an ordeal.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: But hey, beyond all that work that you do and
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: everything else, which you do work very hard, and we
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: appreciate that. I will say it's really remarkable that you've
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: been able to put together under your own steam such
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: a fine and excellent quality podcast from week to week.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I will give you that credit.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I say that, but if you say that, I appreciate it.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Believe me, I say it partly because speaking as a
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: man for whom half of my friends are imaginary and
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: the other half are on podcasts, yours is one of
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: my favorite.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of awesome. So thank you. Absolutely, man.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: If you guys feel that way, yeah, go to moviemeltdown.com.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: The Patreon link is right there on the side. Help
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: keep this dream alive.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And buy Heineberg's coffee.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Damn the man.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Save the meltdown. Where I stole it from. Yeah.