Latest / Masterminds Podcast / Redefining Masculinity: What It Really Means to Be a Man: Kojo Baffoe || Masterminds Podcast EP57

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Redefining Masculinity: What It Really Means to Be a Man: Kojo Baffoe || Masterminds Podcast EP57 · Masterminds Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: I grew up in a space where it wasn't about race but more about culture.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: My father was in his early twenties when Ghana gained independence.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: And the first time I went to Akrama, he he showed me when he was standing.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: When Nkrumah gave the speech.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm the man I am today because of the man my father was.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Today on Masterminds we sit with cultural performances.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Writer, thinker, and cultural strategist.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: Who the work has said how Africa tells the stories.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: How do you define masculinity?
0:33
SPEAKER_02: Masculinity is not singular.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: The masculinity is just like the femininity.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Masculinity is a performance.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: But like you you cannot change your entire being.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Before we jump into the conversation, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank you for supporting and deciding to watch this episode.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: But now I have a favor.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Subscribe to the channel.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Subscribing to the channel helps me and the entire mastermind team to continue bringing you wonderful conversations and episodes that bring you closer to being the mastermind you deserve to be.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: So join the community.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Hi Kojo.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Mastermind.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, feel so weird sitting in an essay and addressing my guest as Kojo.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it uh I guess it happens, it happens for Ghanaians.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Um I just asked a question.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh your name, Kojo?
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Are you Ghanaian?
1:42
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, my name is Kojo Bafu.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: I think that's about as Ghanaian as Ghanaian as you can get.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh so yeah, my father, my father's Ghanaian.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: Well he's past now, but he he was Ghanaian.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, my mother was German.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: And then I grew up in Lesotho.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: And now I live in South Africa.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: That's four different backgrounds.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and each one has influenced me in its own in its own interesting ways.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Tell me how.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: How do you think these ways have built your mindset as it is right now?
2:11
SPEAKER_02: So I would say from a so from a cultural perspective and from a identity, and you know, when you're at the stage where you're trying to figure out who you are as a person.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Um I had as a starting point um kind of different racial backgrounds, if you want to call it.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: I grew up in a space where it wasn't about race, but more about culture.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, my father left Ghana in the 60s, and I never I've never lived there, but we were raised with certain rituals, certain perspectives, certain um attitudes and ways of looking at the world from a cultural perspective.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: And I never lived in Germany, or I lived in Germany after school, but my father lived in Germany for a very long time.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: So I found that even when I went to Germany, there were certain things that he did that were kind of similar.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Similar.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: And then I grew up in Lesotho, like Ghana, a country colonized by the British.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: So I went to a British school, I did my O levels, I did my A levels.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Um but the culture, and you know, I grew up and I speak Susot, and I grew up in the culture, so elements of that.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: So what I've basically done over the years is I pull, I have pulled from the different cultures what works for me.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's been like a work in progress.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: So I I couldn't pinpoint a particular thing, but you know, I can say that my outlook is a combination of what I think is the best of those spaces.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then being raised by, you know, being raised by somebody who my father was in his early twenties when Ghana gained independence.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: And he was in Accra.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: First time I went to Accra, he he showed me when he was standing.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: When Nkrumah gave the speech.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Um so he he was a lecturer, eventually became a lecturer and very pan-African.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: So I was brought up with a lot of very strong pan-African ideals.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so like I said, I've pulled what I feel is the best of those different things to mold the person that I am today.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then built built on that.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: That's powerful.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: So you had like different cultures to mold who you are.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: That's really powerful.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and it continues to, you know, it'll manifest in in small ways.
4:47
SPEAKER_02: Like I have two children, and you know, um growing up, because you call everybody uncle and auntie.
4:55
SPEAKER_02: And my children were born in Joburg.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: And it's a very it's a very different space.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: But it's those things, instilling, you know, respect for yourself and respect for others.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: And how you how you communicate with others.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: And that comes from my background, it comes from my father.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: My father was my only parent from when I was just over one.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: Because my mother passed away.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Um so he was a dominant, he was very dominant.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: And from an African perspective, whether it's Ghana, whether it's Lesotho, whether it's even the different groups, ethnic groups in South Africa, you know, respect and how you address other people and how you treat other people is fundamental to our characters and how we live life.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And so those are the things that I've tried to understand that the world is evolving, and I'm evolving within it.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: But having children forces you to really reflect on how you do what you do, how you show up in the world.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: So at which point do you think you're able to have your full identity?
6:13
SPEAKER_01: Because this is different identities pulling you in.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: So which point did you form your full identity?
6:20
SPEAKER_02: I would say the foundation was at 18, 19 years old.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: So at 18, 19, you know, 18, 19 years old is when we are trying to figure out our identity.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: And I didn't come to South Africa a lot, but then came to university in South Africa.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: So as a 19-year-old, I came to university in South Africa.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: This is just before, this is two years before democratic elections.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, in a space that uses race as the gauge when you walk in the door.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: So nobody's gonna take the time to figure out who you are.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: I grew up in a space where I was Frank Buffer's son.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Or Kweku Buffer's, because we all have, we all use our Ghanaian names.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: So Kweku Buffer's older brother.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: So my context in Lesotho was who my family was, who my friends were, the school I went to.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Um then going, then I went to Germany for a year, and then I came back, and then I went to Durban.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: And now in university, where people engaging with me firstly on how I look, and at a time when I'm trying to figure out who I am.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And having grown up in a black country, and I'm the I always say I'm the white sheep of my family.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: So I'm my I was my mother's only child.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: So I have two brothers and two sisters, and my father, and they're all dark.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: So you stand out.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: So I stand out.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, then going to university, and I when anybody asked me if I had to answer, no, I'm black.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: But at that age when I'm being forced to reckon with this idea of race, I was like, if I say I am black, what am I saying about my mother's side of the family?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: And they're a part of who I am as much as the Ghanaian side of my family.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: And and so at that point, I was like, if I am going to have to position myself by race, I'll say I'm biracial.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, just coming to terms with the fact that it is about my heritage.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: And each one is a part of who I am.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to negate or put down any.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and because like I already stood out in my family, I've kind of always felt a bit of an outsider-insider at the same time.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, pulled in both directions.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: Not even pulled in both kind of directions, literally put on the edge.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: When I go to Ghana, I'm not Ghanaian enough.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: My name is Kojo Buffett.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: It's as Ghanaian as it gets.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, in places like Ghana, even in Europe, when people see me and they hear my name, you know, Ghanaians have gone across the world and found sparse spires of other races.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not unusual.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: But you're never, you know, you're you're never full.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: If I go to Germany, I wouldn't be German enough.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: In Lesotho, where I grew up, and I mean, my father moved to Lesotho when I was about three, four years old.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll never be Mosoto enough.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: In South Africa, I'm not South African.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a finding, it's a finding my space on the edges or on the fence.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it it took longer for me to get to the point where I'm comfortable with that.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm comfortable with not really fitting into any particular space, but also to a certain extent fitting in.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: You fit in in your own space.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: I think it's is the struggle most people have to go through where you try so hard to fit in, and then you get to a point where you realize, no, you need to become your own person.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: But you having different backgrounds, different countries, you lived in and everything, I can imagine how much of a war that was in turn.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: And to a certain extent, I was forced, I've been forced to find my space within it, right?
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Because if I didn't find my space within it, then life would be very difficult.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: And and look, I get my moments.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I get my little twinges, my little moments where you know I'm in a particular space, and and I know that I hear the undertones of oh, you don't quite belong.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Um and and you know, we can't well, we can't control our emotions, but you will get those moments, and I do get those moments.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, like a brief moment, like a little twinch, a little um and then it's uh it's it's about actually addressing it and and dealing with it in myself and recognizing that it's not a it's not a productive of fruitful emotion or thought.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Um and just kind of reminding myself that look, I do have I do have my place.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Like I do have I do have my lane in my family, in the community I'm part of, in my society, in even the broader, let's say broader community that I'm I'm part of.
12:08
SPEAKER_02: And within that context, I do have a place.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's I guess as honored as respected by those around me.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: Um and so yeah, sometimes you do get those feelings, but it's also about and I I do over the last 10 years I've been doing a lot of reading and um a lot of thinking around you know what I can control and what I can't control.
12:38
SPEAKER_02: How I'm like how I live my life, how I show up in the world, how I allow, you know, what I allow to influence me.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: And often what I allow to influence me starts off internally.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, recognizing all of those things and it's it's a work in progress, like everybody's life.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: I guess I'm a bit more deliberate about it.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: One of the most difficult things to do in financial planning is saving and investing towards a big goal.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Now, let me tell you my secret that I used to overcome this challenge.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: I started to do small top-ups consistently on Achieve by Petra to save and invest towards my bigger financial goal.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: For instance, when I decided to come and study masterminds in South Africa, I decided to top up daily, weekly, anything that I could until I raised enough to afford my tickets, my hotel, everything to bring this podcast to you from South Africa.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: So if you're like me and you want to overcome this challenge of saving and investing towards a big goal, use Achieve by Petra.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: The link is in the description.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: So I heard you talking about like the calmness and tenderness of masculinity.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: And it struck me that what do you think it took to become the man that you are today?
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Or how do you define masculinity in the So the definition of masculinity is big.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a that's a huge conversation that I think we're we're all still trying to find our way through.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Um the thing that I always remember is many years ago I worked in television and I worked on a show which was targeted at men.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: This is like mid-2000s.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: And we had a clinical psychologist consulting with us on this this whole show.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: And it was a lifestyle, it was a lifestyle magazine show.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: Had some you know in-depth conversations, but a lot of it was very surface.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: And the thing that he said that I've always remembered is that it's not singular.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: So masculinity is not singular, there are masculinities, just like they're femininities.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: And he was like, to a certain extent, masculinity or masculinity is it's a performance.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: We perform certain types of masculinities tied to who we are.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, the the idea of the alpha male, and unfortunately, from a Western perspective, you know, particularly America and Europe, there are now these characters who are driving this whole alpha male, you must be strong, you must be this, you know, you don't do that.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: It's a performance of it's living out a certain type of masculinity, but it's not the only one.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, women can perform certain masculinities just like men can perform certain femininities.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh so that that kind of shook up my thinking a bit.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: I do not have a singular definition of masculinity.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Um I try to live a particular way.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: I try to live in kind of in harmony with the society around me.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I try to fulfill what I think are my roles as a father, a husband, a brother, a friend, and do things that I feel are in line with that, yeah, that are also not necessarily destructive.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: I think for me that's the most important part is just to veer off.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: I remember I remember turning, I'm in my 50s now, but being in my 40s and starting to ride a motorcycle.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: And a friend was saying, oh, it's a midlife crisis.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: And I and my response was it would only be a crisis if it was destructive.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: But you're doing the question.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: It's not, it's not for me, it's not a crisis.
17:07
SPEAKER_02: It's like I've reached a particular age, I'm interested in certain things.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: As long as it's not destructive, there's no crisis.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: So it's just as I evolve.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: Um and so how I try to show up as a man, the key is that it must not be destructive.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: It must be supportive in in terms of how I feel, you know, I feel I should show up.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: I go back to having children.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: And I have a son and a daughter.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: What example am I setting for my son in terms of how I interact with people, how I'm showing up?
17:51
SPEAKER_02: So for me, that's that's kind of, I guess, exercising my masculinity or showing what my idea of the role of a man is within his family and within society.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: There are aspects of it that you know, I'm not perfect, I'm still flawed.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: I still do things where I even recognize that it's probably not the best way to do it.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: But I you you cannot change your entire being overnight.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a process.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, so what I try to do is just be very conscious and very self-reflective, constantly looking at you know, looking at interactions, looking at the language I use.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I also have a podcast, and when I'm talking to a woman, being very cognizant of the language that I'm using.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: And when, for example, my guest is sharing an experience that is rooted in her as a woman, not having an opinion on it.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and basically being, you know, my job is like your job is to give a platform to people to share their wisdom, share their lessons, etc.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and not be the person who's gonna say, oh yeah, but you know, because yeah, but the minute the butt is in there, um, it's I'm coming with my own judgment.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: My own judgment.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: And if I'm sharing something within that, or I'm pointing, um, and I've said this quite a few times.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: I never thought about it like that.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not, you know, I'm not coming from that perspective.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so yeah, um the the conversation around masculinity is huge.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Um and and in in this country, for example, there's there's a real the real pandemic is violence against women and children.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's it feels interwoven into the fabric of the society in this country.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: And because of that, I am part, I've been part of a couple of discussions, part of groups, where we're talking about all of these things.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay and just trying to find, you know, trying to find what it is.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: What's causing it?
20:20
SPEAKER_02: What's not just not just what's causing it, because what's causing it is the actions of men.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's very simple, right?
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and as a man, I you know, as a man as part of the society, I am complicit in it.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: And if we're gonna fix it, women can't fix it, only men can fix it.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: Because it's about our fellow man's mind state, perspectives, attitudes, etc.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so how do you change that?
20:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you change that for a lot of men?
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's at all levels of society.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: I think I had a guest I was talking to.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: He has this campaign called Boys' Lives Matter, and and he was making a point that he feels for years now, you know, we've concentrated on training the girl child, and what we've forgotten is that we are not training the boy child to be responsible men when they grow up.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Like he gave an example that we train the girl child on not getting teenage pregnancy.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Or you don't train the boy child who's going to impregnate her.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: So he felt that we are starting to raise a generation of irresponsible men because we don't instill the right values in them from when they're young.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: For me, the starting point is who is instilling those values?
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: If then if they're already, if they those boys They are taking in and absorbing that irresponsibility, that those attitudes, those perspectives.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: That comes from somewhere.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: That comes from the men they see.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I agree.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: A lot more work and attention needs to be put into boys.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: But that it should it shouldn't be a even also because of who we celebrate.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: So, like when you mentioned from the men that they see, you know, when society is celebrating the strong man, the violent man, the you know, egotistic man and everything, and a young boy is watching this, so maybe he's watching a movie and he sees the calm, intelligent, respectful man being brushed aside, and every time the strong, arrogant man is being selected, then he starts to think, well, maybe I should be more like him to be recognized in society.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: But for me, a starting point is what they see right in front of them.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: So I'm the man I am today because of who the man my father was.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: I had a direct example of what it means to be a man.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: As I grew old, I rebelled against some of the things.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: I am now, you know, I'm a man with a family now, and there's certain things that I wouldn't have done it the same.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: But I had a very clear example.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: I was exposed to all those other things, all those other ideas of men.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: And in some at some various stages of my life, I even bought into that and I acted a particular way.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: But I'll say if we say we're raising irresponsible boys, it's because around them they see irresponsible men.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: If if we are raising misogynistic, sexist, violent boys, it's because there's for me there's a direct correlation between who's around them, who's nurturing them, who's raising them, who's mentoring them.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Um I I recently interviewed somebody I know, a South African photographer, and he was close to abandoned by his father at the age of ten.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: He only reconnected his father when he was much older.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: So he was living he was living on homes he was fending for himself.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: And he talked about an uncle of his, and he talked about an editor at a newspaper that he went to work at.
25:11
SPEAKER_02: He was like they were the men who taught him how to be, how to dress, how to be a father.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: You know.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Um so yes, we need we need more of those programs, and we need to put that attention.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: But we must also remember that who is you know who is talking to those children.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't want to say his name because he irritates me, but there's this American-British guy we all know online.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: He's all about, I mean, he was in Romania and arrested.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: And there was a stage when my son, he had friends over, and then I go into his room and they're watching YouTube videos.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: And this guy's on there and they're watching this thing.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: And I called my son aside and I had a conversation with him to say what he's presenting, like I have a problem with what he's presenting because, and then I use the example of our environment you know, his mother, his sister, um, me, to say, okay, that's one way of looking, but according to my values and how I how I see the world, that's not the way to go.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: And so I don't want you watching that stuff again.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: So it's having those conversations.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's when he sees me interacting with his mother, when he sees me uh interacting with other women, how am I doing it?
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Because that's what he's going to internalize over time.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: And we could, you know, I can't 100% mold him.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: Like we don't know.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: Just like you can raise a child the best way possible and they turn into a serial killer.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Like we, there's there's only so much you can control.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's about how do we instill those values.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Because that's what it's about, really.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: It's the values, understanding how where you fit into the world and what your role is.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the things I found was because I have a son and a daughter, I teach my daughter that she shouldn't shrink.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: She should show up as her full self with all of her ability.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: But I've also had to teach my shit, my son, to be comfortable with the women around him showing up.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I mean.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Because but that's that's constant lessons, that's constant teaching, that's that's living a particular way.
28:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, so my wife for her work travels a lot.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: So I'm the one that's always home because I work from home.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: And my wife has run massive conferences all across the continent.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: So my son sees his mother as a professional going out and doing and working and doing the things that she wants to do with her life.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: And and so my hope is that growing up in that kind of environment, it's oh no, the the mother's job is not to just be at home.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: The mother's professional, good at what she does, and she will pursue it.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: And my daughter sees her mother traveling, and she'll send us pictures, and she's, I mean, she was running a conference in Accra some years back, and you know, this president's on the stage, and and she's she's director of this, you know, behind the scenes on this whole thing.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: So my daughter sees her mother and recognizes that, yes, she may be a girl of becoming a woman.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: She can go out and be professional and pursue the things that she wants to pursue.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: And my son should also understand that no, women, the women around you, we are equal in that.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: Like we can pursue those things.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: To teach, to teach the boys and start to change the attitude, we need to expose them to more of that, more of that kind of masculinity.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Um to give an alternative.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Because right now there's to give an alternative.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: There's just one.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Right?
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's like, no, to show that there are different ways.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the fact that a lot of I don't know what I'd say, boys or men also have a problem with being too silent, like emotional silence, internal silence, where it's almost as though we've been trained it's bad to speak up as a man.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a negative thing when a man is able to talk about what he's going through.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: I think there are two parts to that.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: So the one part is yes, we do, and I am 101% guilty of that, that I'm still working my way through.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, in terms of holding stuff inside.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: Right?
30:48
SPEAKER_02: Um and I think we do need we do need ways of opening up, letting that stuff out.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't know exactly what it is.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: Like for years I thought, let me try therapy.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: And then I tried it for about a year.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I went into therapy as a 50-year-old and I did it for like a year and a half, and it had its use, but I'm still not 100% sure that it was the thing specifically for me.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: I have people around me, other men around me, who will go to therapy and survey therapy.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I think we do need we do need a form of outlet um that is not destructive in terms of helping us manage and deal with our emotions and all of those things.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Um at the same time, sometimes I think we do, just in our own ways.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I always use the example that was um this is years ago.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Um close friend of mine in the soto, his father passed away.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, our relationship's not, you know, I'm not gonna hug him and he's I'll hug him, but he's not gonna cry on my shoulder, and you know, we're not gonna have like a heart-to-heart where he you know breaks down.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: It's just for better or worse, that's the nature of a relationship.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um but I drove down, so funeral is on a Saturday.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: I drove down on the Thursday, I arrived in Masera and went straight to the home to help.
32:44
SPEAKER_02: And then the whole Friday I was there, you know, you're picking up chairs, organizing the tent, yeah, all the things that that we do as Africans in terms of.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: And then, and I was there.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: I only made, I'd even make the the funeral service because I was still running around, but I made it to the gravesite.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: And for me, and he expressed his appreciation when I left, how we had a conversation about was that I showed up.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: And I was there.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: So that's why I have to say there's two parts to it.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: Because, and this is the conversation I have with the women around me a lot of times.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: I say, you know, we all agree, there'll be like, you know, you men need to be able to open up more, et cetera, et cetera, and deal with you know mental stuff and all the stuff that you're holding in.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I agree, but it may not be the way that you think we must do it.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: We need to figure out what way works for us.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Because the, oh, go to therapy and you sit down with somebody and you talk it out.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I said I struggle to find a therapist because I'm like, okay, I'm half German, half Ghanaian from Lesotho, and I live in South Africa.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: There are things about me that are very Ghanaian, very German, very Musoto.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: Fundamentally, I'm an African.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: So some of my beliefs, like I, you, I talked to my ancestors.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I was never religious.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: So I grew up in a home where you could choose the route you're gonna take.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so even let's say spirituality, I found the things that work for me.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: Right?
34:56
SPEAKER_02: Um so I have these little, you know, these little things.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm like, I'm gonna go sit in front of someone who has no understanding of any of my cultural foundations.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: And they're supposed to help me.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: There'll be a judgment on it.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, as last thing I do at night is I make sure the whole house is locked up and I check on both of my children.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: I go into their room, check on them, make sure they're covered, make sure the house is locked up.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: Because that's my duty.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: That's my responsibility.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: And I have other things that I do like that.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: That somebody may go, yeah, but it's don't you think it's a bit patriarchal, or don't you think it's a bit, and it's like, unfortunately, right now, culturally as a man, my duty and my responsibility is to my family.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: A first priority.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: I do not have to feel happy about it.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: I can, it doesn't matter how I feel, when I wake up every day, that is my duty and my responsibility too, because that's my family.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: Now, if I'm gonna go talk out with somebody who's now looking at it from a very different maybe cultural perspective and wants to talk it through, there's nothing to talk about.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: My responsibility, I have children, I have a wife.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: I decided to marry my wife, and I decided to have children.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: So as long as I'm on this earth, I have a responsibility.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: I have a responsibility to those three individuals.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: And somebody may be like, yeah, but you have to, you know, it's like look after you first.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: And I get that, yes, you must look after me first.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: But for me, because of how I was raised in my perspective, my father raised his five children.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: But somehow I do believe that is looking after you.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's one thing I always say that you need to do what makes you feel good.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: And if what makes you feel good as a man is being responsible for your family, that is being there for you.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, and that that's I mean, it's exactly that.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a different perspective on something, right?
37:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Um and so that's what I think that's what we need in terms of making sense of the inner turmoil.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: Is finding finding the things or the thinking or the approach that makes it all right for you.
37:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, and then I go back to then if that's what gives you joy, or if that's what makes you happy that you're able to do that, then you are you are doing the internal work.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: It may not make sense to me.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to make sense to me as long as it makes sense for you specifically.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think we should allow people more of that space.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we are living in a world where everyone is telling everyone exactly how to be.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: Because everybody has an opinion.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, uh I worked in the media for some years and I was a very early adopter on a lot of the social media platforms, that sort of stuff.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: Um and in the beginning, I was like, it's great because it dem democratizes, you know, it democratizes um voice.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Now more and more people get a voice.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: And for us as Africans, particularly, you know, all of a sudden on Twitter and then later with other platforms, we're able to show how we live and how we are.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: And tell our story now.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: The narrative that, you know, there's always war, we're always surrounded by flies, all of these things that has been pushed by in Western media for all these years.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: Now it's like, no, no, this is who we are, this is what it looks like.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: But it feels at some point we went over.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Because not every, I believe not every opinion should be heard.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, my father always used to say, and I've been asked my opinions and things where I've said, you know what, I actually don't have anything to share on that.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Because my father always used to say, if you don't, if you're not adding value to the discussion, if you're not adding value to the narrative, then you shouldn't you don't you shouldn't actually say anything.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: You should speak when if it's something that you feel you in your opinion, because for all of us it's our opinions.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: If your opinion is going to, you know, not not necessarily shake things up, but give a different perspective, kind of add to the discourse, then great.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: But if it's not, if you're just going to repeat what everybody else is saying, then what's the point?
40:29
SPEAKER_02: What's the point?
40:31
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, we've reached a point where I mean you'll see people arguing with experts in a particular field.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: I can watch it sometimes and I'm like, what?
40:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, like maybe you see a scientist and they are giving you scientific facts, and then you come in the comments and you see somebody disagreeing.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, it's it's a fact he's giving you.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Like he's he's telling you one plus one equals two.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, saying, no, I think it should be 1.1.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I mean, that's that's the world we've created.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: Like literally, where supposedly every opinion is valid.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:11
SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, actually, not every opinion is valid.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: Because there are many occasions when my opinion is not valid.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: It's valid for you to have your opinion, yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: But maybe your opinion isn't valid.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's it's not valid in that it should not be broadcast.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: I have that opinion.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: It's your personal opinion.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: I think that.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: And I can live my life and I can make my decisions according to that opinion.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: But for me to now go out and shout to the world that no, no, no, no.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is what I think.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know?
41:44
SPEAKER_01: And especially because now uh opinions are passed off as influers.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: So it's like maybe I have a bad habit I do every single day.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: I can now grab a phone and post on social media and say, This is what I do every morning.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And I'm pushing it out there like others should do the same.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: When I'm no authority, sometimes we don't even know the person we're watching.
42:08
SPEAKER_01: Their life could be in complete chaos because of that morning routine, but they'll come and tell us that we'll also say, Oh, I should try that.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: And their lives, I mean, yeah, their lives often are, you know, our lives, our lives online are very, are very rarely exactly our lives offline.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: I remember one um opinion or routine.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: It's actually a diet that I tried and quickly reset my thinking.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: On it was an apple diet.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Supposed to eat only 10 apples every day for five days.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: You don't eat anything but the 10 apples from morning till evening.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: I think about five apples in, I stopped.
42:52
SPEAKER_01: When my energy was all complete, I said, no, no, no, no, no, no.
42:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, because and it's it's trying, it's a I I try things out, but I try things out according to what I think makes sense and works for me.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:11
SPEAKER_02: Um I and also as kind of as I've gotten older, I've gone, okay, I need to do a little of this, a little of that.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: Um I was so I've always wanted to try intermittent fasting, for example.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: I actually do that.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy it.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: So I've seen it and I've been wanting to try it, and I also have a my drug of choice has been sugar.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Which is which is the worst.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: Um and so for years I tried to get rid of sugar.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: And I like sweets, and I'll eat sweets and I'll put two big spoons in my coffee, all of that.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: And so I recently, or some months back, I had a healthcare.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And because of my medication, I had to change some of the things I ate.
44:06
SPEAKER_02: And so I decided, okay, actually I'm gonna I'm gonna cut out sugar.
44:13
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I'm not hardcore.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Like no sugar, and yeah, sometimes I'll you know I'll have a slice of cake, um, I'll have some sweets, but in comparison to where I was, I've dropped it quite a bit.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: So primarily you've dropped it.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: Um I'd say I've dropped 80% of the sugar my sugar intake.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: But I so then I went back to hospital and I came out, and the one specialist suggested that, well he politely suggested, recommended, that I have my last meal at five o'clock.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's intermittent fasting.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: And so I started doing that.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, actually, I've always wanted to do intermittent fasting.
45:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:04
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm so I'm I'm three, four weeks in.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: And and I've got you know, I've got a rhythm going.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: I I do need to get better with my rhythm because sometimes what happens is I miss the five o'clock.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: What I did last week, which is not the thing to do, was oh, I missed the five o'clock meal.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: So I just didn't eat till morning.
45:31
SPEAKER_02: So now I'm doing 20 hours.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: That's too much.
45:36
SPEAKER_02: So the last two days, like, it was like between five and six.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, that's cool.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's still it's still about finding a rhythm.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: And even when I missed it and I ate it half past six, I also don't beat myself up about it.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's okay, reset, and you start again.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: Like there's no, there's no headmaster looking over me.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: There's no um, and if I beat up, beat myself up about it, and this is this is one of the kind of mental tools that I've learned.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, if I beat up, beat myself up about it, I'm expending energy for other things.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: I am actually setting myself back because then it becomes very easy to go, okay, well, it's not working, let me just stop.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: So my thing is at least I'm doing something.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: So I may not do the whole thing.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: So I I'll read a lot of, I read a lot of books.
46:39
SPEAKER_02: I just finished a book called The Changed Mind.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's all around personal development and you know how we manifest our thoughts and how we control our thoughts and all of those things.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: And I'm constantly reading different books.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: I'll take one thing from a book.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: They'll have a whole system.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: I'll take one thing.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: Somebody else will read it, also take one thing.
47:02
SPEAKER_02: And just implement that one thing.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, that one thing is small enough and it I can handle that.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:10
SPEAKER_02: In the beginning, I'll try and do the whole thing.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: So this is the like, this is the system that you must follow.
47:18
SPEAKER_02: Now I'm trying to run the system, and the minute something doesn't fit into my schedule, I just stop everything.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: Whereas now it's like, I'll pick one thing.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: So like I journal, I journal every morning, and I swear by journaling.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: And that's also in line with who you are, so it comes naturally.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: Um I in fact I did it, it's called Morning Pages.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's supposed to be, oh, it's for anyone.
47:50
SPEAKER_02: Um because my father always say, put your thoughts down.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: How I got into writing is like, whatever's in your mind, put it down on paper.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: Because when it's in your mind, it's bumping against a whole bunch of other thoughts.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_02: When you put it down on paper, you're forced to then compartmentalize it.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, so morning pages, journaling, and it's free writing.
48:12
SPEAKER_02: Don't think about it, you don't think about spelling, you don't worry about what you're writing.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can go, I need to buy dog food, and then next sentence, I'm writing about somebody that made me angry or something that disappointed me.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: And then the next sentence is, I saw that car, I really like that car.
48:35
SPEAKER_02: Or I like the song.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's a stream of consciousness.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: And what it's about, it's about emptying the mind a bit.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: I'm just all the junk.
48:47
SPEAKER_02: And as a writer, I found that yes, it helps me with my writing.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it also helped, it it actually serves as a form of meditation and therapy.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm getting stuff out of my head.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:05
SPEAKER_02: And so now I I mean I even write about journaling, and I've talked, like I've done a couple of talks about encouraging people to take up a journaling practice.
49:16
SPEAKER_02: And they're good 20 plus ways of journaling.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: So it's like find the one that works for you.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: This one you're supposed to do it when you wake up.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: When I wake up, I have to take children to school.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I can't do it.
49:33
SPEAKER_02: I don't have that, you know, 30 minutes before I start my day.
49:38
SPEAKER_02: So I I do everything and then I come back, I sit at my desk with my cup of coffee.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: As long as you're consistent.
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
49:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean I somebody said something where they spoke about consistency in routines.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And they mentioned that if you plan on doing something for five years, which is what, like 1900 and something days, missing one day out of 1900 doesn't really matter.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: Even missing five days out of 1900 doesn't really matter.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's not as important trying so hard to be perfect and make sure you never miss it.
50:11
SPEAKER_01: More more, it's more important to do it in a way that you can be confident you will do it consistently for a long period.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: So, like you're saying, um, if you say, okay, I need to write first thing in the morning when I wake up, and then you wake up today, you have to take the kids to school, then that gets in the way, and they're like, oh no, this isn't working, this isn't working, then it stresses you out and you stop.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: But if you say, I do it in the morning when I get the time, every day I'll do it.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: The day you don't you're unable to do it, it's fine.
50:41
SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow I'll do it.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Or I'll do it in the afternoon this time, and you just so I'm a big believer in when you talked about routine and habit.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those are two important things.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: So I'm a big believer in how you create habit is by making something routine.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: And you make it routine by inserting it into your routine.
51:07
SPEAKER_02: It cannot be something that does not fit into how your routine already operates.
51:15
SPEAKER_02: 100%.
51:16
SPEAKER_02: Um and so I can tell you, I can give you the steps from when I wake up in the morning until I journal.
51:29
SPEAKER_02: Because each one of those steps is part of my routine to the point where it's in my diary, but I never check it.
51:39
SPEAKER_02: Because my body automatically knows.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: So how I then implement something new is I look at my routine.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: So I look at my schedule and I go, okay, where can I fit this in where it flows with everything I'm doing?
51:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:59
SPEAKER_02: And then for the first, you know, for the first couple of weeks, I probably have to remind myself a bit.
52:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, I probably have to check the diary.
52:08
SPEAKER_02: I may forget, it's like, oh, I need to do this at this time.
52:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
52:13
SPEAKER_02: But after a while, it becomes part of how your day runs.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: And then once you do that, then it flows.
52:21
SPEAKER_02: So there's a book by a guy called BJ Fogg called Tiny Habits.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so there are a couple of so I went through a whole productivity phase in my life.
52:30
SPEAKER_02: So I read all these books.
52:31
SPEAKER_02: So Charles Duhig has um habits, um there's like digital minimalism by Carl Newport, then there's tiny habits, there's atomic habits.
52:43
SPEAKER_02: So I read about eight books.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: I actually read Atomic Habits last.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
52:49
SPEAKER_02: But the one that stuck with me was tiny habits.
52:54
SPEAKER_02: So he talks about triggers.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh so what he says is that so you add it into your routine.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: Like with a business, like minimum viable product.
53:07
SPEAKER_02: So if you want to get so if you want to get fit, you commit to doing three push-ups.
53:14
SPEAKER_02: Only three.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:17
SPEAKER_02: But you find a trigger that is in your routine to do those push-ups.
53:25
SPEAKER_02: So I did it, I experimented with it for for a while.
53:30
SPEAKER_02: Um so the two things was I did wanted to get because I didn't been training for years.
53:37
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, I'll do push-ups.
53:42
SPEAKER_02: And it was three push-ups.
53:44
SPEAKER_02: No, I think I said five push-ups.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
53:48
SPEAKER_02: But when I went into the shower, so when I was getting ready to go shower, my trigger was when I put on the water, because you know, here is not as warm as Ghana.
54:02
SPEAKER_02: So when I opened the tap for the for the water to get hot, yeah, that was my trigger to go down and do five push-ups.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: While you're waiting for it to become hot.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: While I'm waiting for it to get hot.
54:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
54:14
SPEAKER_02: So that was my trigger.
54:15
SPEAKER_02: And then I've never I don't drink enough water.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I know that we should be drinking.
54:23
SPEAKER_02: Never drank enough water.
54:25
SPEAKER_02: So my other trigger was every time I walked into the kitchen, okay.
54:32
SPEAKER_02: Bother to make a cup of coffee or whatever, but anytime I walked into the kitchen, I'd immediately go to the sink and get water.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: So it was getting the triggers going.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: And doing it in a small way.
54:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and doing it in a small way.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: And then tomorrow you can only do five.
54:57
SPEAKER_02: You need to do five.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:59
SPEAKER_02: That's your minimum.
55:01
SPEAKER_02: If you did 15, great for you in that day, but all you need to do every single day is five.
55:07
unknown: Yeah.
55:08
SPEAKER_02: But it is about, then I'm a yeah, I'm a calendar person.
55:12
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't like surprises.
55:15
SPEAKER_02: Even with my wife, you want to do something or something's happening, it must go into the calendar.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: I must see it.
55:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, if she's gonna go somewhere on Wednesday next week, I must see it because I'm gonna plan.
55:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna plan my schedule.
55:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:33
SPEAKER_02: So I need to know what's what is going on with everyone.
55:36
SPEAKER_02: So I'm a big believer in often I will start off by diarising.
55:43
SPEAKER_02: Like my journaling is still in my diary.
55:47
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm on medication, so I had medication I had to take at a certain time in the morning.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: That's in my diary.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:54
SPEAKER_02: Now I don't need I don't check the diary.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: Like I'll know.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna make a cup of coffee.
55:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, my medication's right there.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: I need to take my medication.
56:03
SPEAKER_01: I want you to do something for me, Kojo.
56:05
SPEAKER_01: Like I was saying, the whole concept of this show is to turn people watching into masterminds.
56:11
SPEAKER_01: I want you to imagine you could stretch a hand through the camera and drop one mindset shift into the mind of the person watching to bring them closer to success.
56:20
SPEAKER_01: What would that be?
56:23
SPEAKER_02: It's a very it's a very simple thing.
56:28
SPEAKER_02: Um that has held me in good stead, which is focus on what you can control.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
56:36
SPEAKER_02: Very simple.
56:38
SPEAKER_02: And all you can control is inside here, is yourself.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: And that includes your thoughts, your emotions.
56:49
SPEAKER_02: Your emotions are manifestation of your thoughts.
56:52
SPEAKER_02: Um because that also brings you into the present.
56:59
SPEAKER_02: So whatever situation you're in, if you're focusing, no matter what's happening, if you're focusing on what you can control and putting your attention there, which is putting you very much in the present, you're not expending energy on and getting frustrated by the things you cannot control.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: Because focusing on the things you cannot control is an exercise in suffering.
57:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:36
SPEAKER_02: And it's a consistent it'll never be anything other than that.
57:41
SPEAKER_02: Um and so for me that is that is fundamental.
57:46
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's helped me, it's helped me navigate, particularly over the last 10 years, it's helped me navigate really difficult spaces and very kind of difficult times where it's, you know, now I'm stressing, I'm worrying about bills at the end of the month.
58:11
SPEAKER_02: I can't control what's gonna happen at the end of the month.
58:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:14
SPEAKER_02: All I can control is what I'm gonna do right now.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:19
SPEAKER_02: And if I am thinking about that, I'm actually dividing my energy that I need to deal with this situation with where I am right now.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:31
SPEAKER_02: And that's that has helped me survive the last 10 years.
58:37
unknown: Nice.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: That's very, very powerful.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: Kujan, thank you so much for sharing your mindset, your insights with my audience.
58:45
SPEAKER_01: And I really hope that as you're watching this, you paid close attention.
58:50
SPEAKER_01: And this conversation has brought you one step closer to being the mastermind that I know you deserve to be.
59:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for watching this episode.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: Now, the mastermind dream is about building a community of people who have the right mindset and are ready to take their success into their own hands.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: So do me this wonderful favor, subscribe and share with anybody out there who you believe you want to see have the right mindset to succeed so that together we can all become the mastermind of the