Latest / The Property Unleashed Podcast / Building A Rent-To-Rent Business And Leaving Their Jobs, Jaydee & Paul Tell Their Story

Transcript

Building A Rent-To-Rent Business And Leaving Their Jobs, Jaydee & Paul Tell Their Story · The Property Unleashed Podcast

0:11
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Property Unleash podcast with me, your host, Mark Fitzgerald.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: It's great to have you joining me here today.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: And today I am joined by two special guests.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: I've got JD and Paul from PJK Properties.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Great to have you on today.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: How are you both?
0:28
SPEAKER_04: Afternoon.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: We're great.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Really good, Mark.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really good.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's great to get you on.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Finally, I know we've been trying to do this for a while because you know it's just busy, busy times as well.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: But you've been growing your own property business, you know, over the last you know 12, 18 months, probably a little bit longer than that.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: You'll be able to tell me about that.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: But it's been quite inspiring that the journey that you have.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: And with any journey, there's lots of you know challenges, there's lots of wins.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: And of course, it can take time to get things over the line and make things happen.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's absolutely amazing to have you both on here.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited because I always get energy from great people, and you certainly are that.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: But for people that don't know you as well as I do, can you tell us a little bit about yourselves, please?
1:11
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
1:12
SPEAKER_04: Do you want to go first?
1:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm Paul.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: My background started off in architecture, working for myself, working in practice, then went into sales of all things, selling gas and electric contracts, and then more recently, over the last five years, we've gone into property international way.
1:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm JD.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: My background's commercial and then not-for-profit.
1:35
SPEAKER_04: So I've worked within recruitment HR, and then the last 10 years I worked for a not-for-profit organization, leaving that role as managing director uh to move into the property full-time.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Amazing, amazing.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And it is just worth noting that you are both now full-time in property and you have other businesses as well, which is great stuff as a partnership.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that works so so well.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, going back, obviously, you guys came and joined us on the rent-to-rent business builder because that was what you were looking at doing, which was you know, to start building a rent-to-rent business that could replace your wage, give you more time freedom.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it you I always say you've got to treat rent-to-rent as a business.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: So it's about doing those things where you need to put your systems in, you need to obviously build it up systematically over time.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I'm gonna go back now to the very, very beginning.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Before we had a conversation and stuff, obviously, you'd have been looking at property investing, looking at the different strategies and things, but what really made you take the plunge?
2:35
SPEAKER_04: I think because of Paul's background in when when we met, Paul's background in property, I'd already have a passion for property.
2:43
SPEAKER_04: I think initially it was more about securing something for our future.
2:47
SPEAKER_04: We were actually, when we first met, happy in our jobs.
2:50
SPEAKER_04: We both had senior jobs, we were paid well, but it with with the crunch and everything else, it still felt it it wasn't quite enough.
2:57
SPEAKER_04: And I think it was the conversations initially started about securing securing like a pension and maybe buying properties and what does our world look like when we're 50, 60, 70.
3:08
SPEAKER_04: As as sort of things change within our employment, etc.
3:11
SPEAKER_04: etc.
3:11
SPEAKER_04: We just really started kind of dabbling into a few different events, go into different networking, but it's very overwhelming.
3:19
SPEAKER_04: There's so many different strategies, there's so many different people.
3:23
SPEAKER_04: You don't always have that knowledge, you feel like you shouldn't be in the room.
3:28
SPEAKER_04: We didn't know we wanted to go into rent to rent specifically at the time.
3:31
SPEAKER_04: I think sourcing is where we wanted to start, and not just saying it because we're on your podcast, Mark, but your energy and what you gave away when we first met you, I think just triggered something inside us to start, didn't it?
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the biggest thing like Janice said, we we both had good, well-paid jobs, senior management, etc.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: But I think we always wanted that little bit extra, that extra revenue, and obviously being in salaried jobs, they're kind of limited.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: So we did go down the the deal sourcing route because three or four years ago that was the buzz.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: The buzzware was deal source and deal sourcing.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: We did that, had relatively good success, and obviously we attended a pin event and met yourself, and it changed our whole thought process.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: It did, yeah.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's nice to hear.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: That's nice to I do remember at the beginning when you were sourcing deals as well, and it was so to speak, I'll keep sourcing these, maybe source some rent-to-rent deals and then see where it goes from there.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: So obviously, we met, we had the discussion.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: I always like to talk to people that come and make a big investment in themselves when they come and you know, get the training and support and everything.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So, how did you guys find that?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: To be fair, I think from day one, I think once we officially signed up, I think the support that we got from yourself, I think the online training and the course was more than what we expected, to be fair, because obviously, when you take on one of these events or courses, you're never quite sure what you're gonna get.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I think the fact it came through PIN gave you a lot of credibility straight away from our point of view.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And then from that, we've just really tried to push on as much as we can.
5:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think the the support and the training and etc, everything like that is really, really valuable.
5:05
SPEAKER_04: But I think what people sometimes maybe don't recognise is the paperwork, the systems, the process, the contracts that you've obviously already invested in that we then get to access as part of our training.
5:17
SPEAKER_04: That's invaluable because when you're starting out, if you don't have that paperwork right or you don't have the money to go to a solicitor and get it all right, that all your back office stuff is really, really important.
5:27
SPEAKER_04: And to basically just have that and go, there you go, is is just invaluable, really.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: I think as well, a lot of people underestimate the contracts and everything as well.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a buzzword and stuff, but I see so many people as well that come to me after they've signed an agreement because they think, Well, I've I've listened to a few podcast episodes, I've watched a few YouTube videos, I'm gonna go out there and do this.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Then they'll have a letting agent or somebody like that that'll say to them, Well, sign this contract.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: They've never actually ever looked at what a proper rent-to-rent management agreement or commercial lease agreement should look like, which is nothing else in the trainings because you obviously you can take my templates, you can take them to a solicitor and still get them drawn up and everything, yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: But at least you've got something there which is what costs the most money at the end of the day.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: The amount of times I see people locking themselves into agreements that aren't potentially healthy for them or their business is well, if I if you know, if I got a pound for everyone, I'd probably have 25 quid.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: That sort of thing, but it is really important that you understand what a good contract is as well, isn't it?
6:30
SPEAKER_00: When you're when you're getting out there.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: So I think that that is something that you've highlighted there, which I I do believe is so important when it comes to uh getting out there and running your own business.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: So, how how did you find it then?
6:41
SPEAKER_00: So you started going through the training modules and everything.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we had the coaching sessions as well to support you.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: You've got a community as well, where you can ask questions.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: So, on an ongoing basis, as I say, even to this point now, you guys are still in you know the Facebook group for the rent-to-rent business build, you can still ask questions in there.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: But how did you actually you know get out there, find your deals, and and how did you find it in general when you were starting out?
7:07
SPEAKER_00: John said, uh you go.
7:10
SPEAKER_04: I think it's you've you've got to really commit at the beginning because you know, we we had two busy jobs as well, and we really had to be quite strict with sitting there and sitting at the kitchen table and watching all the videos, and you kind of want to skip ahead sometimes, or you want to go a bit forward and see what's next.
7:27
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't think your course actually allows you to do that, driving them around.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: You've got to do one module and do the other.
7:33
SPEAKER_04: And then let's be honest, you have your dip sometimes, you know.
7:36
SPEAKER_04: You you maybe send out your letters or you do something that the strategy might say you don't get anywhere, you're really nervous for your first house or your first viewing.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: And I think it's it's about you know, keep going and keep going and keep going.
7:49
SPEAKER_04: We we didn't get our first house in the first month, first three months.
7:52
SPEAKER_04: It took us a while to get our first house, but we didn't give up, we kept going.
7:58
SPEAKER_04: And I think from your side, you really immersed yourself in contacting the other members, that community, like you said.
8:06
SPEAKER_04: We went to an event where another one of your members were that we met that was really, really great contact and is still with us now.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: It's perseverance, and I'm I'm glad there were two of us doing it because obviously that's even more difficult when you're on your own, and that community is really powerful.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: I love the fact that you brought up the skipping forward because that's me, that's the reason you have to skip forward until you've done this definitely me as well.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Because I I am terrible.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: If if you give me something that's open, I'll jump around.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: I'll think, oh, hold on a minute, I'll forget that bit.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: Let's just get into the juicy bits, the bits that really suit your persona and your and your personality.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And that is why uh I I specifically had that.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we don't hold you back.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: If you get up to the point and you want it unlocked, you just let us know and we'd unlock it.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we we have it.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: I want everybody to at least have gone through that learning, and it just makes it better then when we're on the group coaching sessions and stuff.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: You're not asking questions that we've covered in the training, you're asking new questions, and everybody's learning from those as well.
9:06
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it works really, really uh I think we have a we have a really complimentary mix as well because Paul's background is sales.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: While I've done sales, my background was operations.
9:16
SPEAKER_04: So we've we've we've got kind of that sales and operations side.
9:19
SPEAKER_04: So while Paul's listening to the video, I'm downloading everything and putting it in organized files because it has to be in an organized file.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: Without the back office, you've got nothing.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, that that's true.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: That my wife is very good at that.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, put a spreadsheet in front of her, put a system there and get her to organize it, and she's in her element there, which I'm like there thinking I'd rather walk over broken glass and do that.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, you have to force yourself, but it is a good, it is a good, good team dynamics to have because if you were both into sales, then again, you can build yourself something very quickly, but you can build yourself a massive headache as well.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about some of the deals that you've done then.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, right now you've got a good couple of handfuls of uh properties that you're you know currently managing and things.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: You've built that up over a quite a quick space of time.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I remember having a conversation probably with Paul on one of the coaching sessions, and within a few months after that, I heard it was a bit tough going.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then all of a sudden, I sort of didn't hear anything for a while, and then all of a sudden, you've got like this good handful of properties.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Wow, where did that come from?
10:26
SPEAKER_04: We got to put that into perspective a little bit.
10:28
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we got our first house in July 2024.
10:33
SPEAKER_04: I'll always remember being on one of my best friend's hen party in Manchester for the weekend, leaving Manchester on Sunday morning and going to the house and cleaning all day because we have to get it ready for the next for the week.
10:46
SPEAKER_04: And I'm lost after that, I still remember the nights that we did cleaning and all the other bits.
10:50
SPEAKER_04: But July 24 was our first house.
10:54
SPEAKER_04: By the end of that year, we'd already had probably about five, six.
10:57
SPEAKER_04: I think it just it just moved really quickly.
10:59
SPEAKER_04: And by September, October, we we needed to leave our jobs really to balance that with what we were doing.
11:06
SPEAKER_04: And yes, we have another business as well, but this was then the the time of the tenants, the management, all those different things.
11:13
SPEAKER_04: It but I always remember you saying that once you get your first deal, yeah, and and I think that's something that we had to keep believing it.
11:22
SPEAKER_04: Get your first deal, that'll be your hardest ever deal.
11:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and then you just replicate and just keep going, keep going, and keep going.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Then yeah, I think we we did the basics from the training.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: We did uh we did the letters to the HMO registers uh for areas that were closer, like Manchester was a predominant one, Salford is another one.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: We contacted letting agents, we were quite quite ruthless at the very beginning.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: But what happened is you don't get the responses that you expect.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Work catches you back up where you've got to still do your nine to five, life does get in the way.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: But I think having two of us, it it enabled us to carry on.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: I think the big thing that did keep us on track was I think the monthly calls, the training calls with you, Matt, because it was other people in our situation that had started at the same time that were going through the same journey.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think after say, like the first year where we'd not had a single property, I think if we look back, we probably didn't give it 100% due to life, and that's okay as well.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: But I look back at the last six months or last 12 months, and we've just I think we've taken it to that next level, really.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I think you have as well.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: And every time I speak to you, you've got a new opportunity, you know, you're talking to another landlord or you're talking to an agent, and somebody's got something here, and it does take time to do so.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Some people can get a deal within a few weeks, but that's just as I say, luck of the drawer, you make your own luck because you put yourself in those situations.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: But once you can 100% commit to something and you basically say to yourselves, this is happening, okay?
12:53
SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna not happen, yeah, no matter what, exactly.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's the I think the hardest part to understand yourself.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Because if you said to anybody, listen, if you do this training and you stick to this and you give it a 100% for at least six months, eight months, just do it for 12 months.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: So this year you're gonna 100% focus on this, remove all the shiny pennies that we come across because all of a sudden we do a couple of months on something.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm terrible for it myself.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: I see somebody else doing something, maybe a different strategy, and I'm thinking, Oh, hold on a minute now, I need to be doing that, and then you end up not actually being a master of anything.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, so focusing on that, I think has really, really helped you too, hasn't it?
13:33
SPEAKER_04: I think that we talk about that a lot, staying in our lane.
13:37
SPEAKER_04: We we we still go to some networking events, obviously, we still get lots of email traffic, or we you see lots of stuff, and obviously social media, particularly glamorizes property worlds.
13:49
SPEAKER_04: You know, you're gonna be rich and you're gonna be financially free.
13:51
SPEAKER_04: Well, you still got to work.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: It doesn't just come in and you sat on your yacht all day, maybe for some people, but we're we're not there yet.
13:59
SPEAKER_04: And and I think that that we we had a conversation with each other very early on about that, because we definitely could have oh, well, actually, let's pay for training to do that.
14:10
SPEAKER_04: Actually, that looks really good.
14:11
SPEAKER_04: That could catapult us, let's do that.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: And we we've been really strict on that, actually, of going, no, this is what we're doing, this is where we are.
14:20
SPEAKER_04: When we get that to a point, then we need to start looking at different income streams, different strategies.
14:25
SPEAKER_04: But let's not confuse ourselves because we see so many people going off on all these different tangents, and uh yeah, that wasn't gonna work for us, I don't think.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: No, I think I think the big thing, Mark, is that with yourself actually doing it, we knew that it worked.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: So, as a strategy, we were fully all in on this, and I think the big thing from our point of view is that yes, we could do service accommodation, yes, we could do purchase lease options, yes, we could do deal sorting.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: But what we'd find is if we did all of that, we won't become a specialist in our own field.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and even though we're not quite there yet, as regards to knowing everything, we know enough to build a business, make it cash flow nicely, we're cash flowing over six figures, we're doing what we need to do.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think and and to hit the nail on the head, you never know everything.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, I always think there's more I need to know, there's more I need to know.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: And there's an earning day with you know, especially with the way the governments are and councils are, and everybody's always changing stuff.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: But the the one thing though that I I have always said myself, and I I set out at the very, very beginning to build myself a business because I look at a business and I think to myself, if you can build it as a business, something A, you can systemize, B, you can put people in to replace you if you don't want to do certain things or you get big enough that you actually want to employ other people to do it.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: That for me, then is if you've systemized it and made it into a property business, that's when you can go and sail on your yacht because otherwise you're just a landlord.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's the mistake I see a lot of people making as well.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: I'll do it when I get to this point, or I'll be happy when I get there.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: I think no, no, no, start building it as if I left it too long myself, personally.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: I will say it.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I've helped and I've worked in a lot of corporations and companies and things, I've helped people build their own businesses, but even you know, so to speak, taking my own medicine, I held on too long before I actually employed people to come in and do a few things for me.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm on my own, so I needed admin help and things like that because I wanted to keep the profits to myself.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: But when I realized, hold on a minute, with the right systems in place, getting the right people in place, I can actually grow quicker, faster, and bigger.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's a business that's sustainable and potentially even sellable at some point as well, if that's what you choose to do.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like build your own portfolio up for your legacy fees for yourselves, for your retirement fund.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: But then if you've got a business that's actually cash flowing, well, you can sell that to anybody at any point because any any residual income that you've got coming through and contracts you've got locked in is a business that people always want to buy.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: So tell me about your first uh uh properties.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: You were in there, you were cleaning.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: What was it?
17:10
SPEAKER_04: Three-bed terrace house.
17:12
SPEAKER_04: Majority of ours are three, four beds.
17:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh, most of the houses that we work with that became our sweet spot because we work with Manchester Ternside and Salford Council.
17:22
SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, it was it was a three-bed terrace, and ironically, it was in a place where you actually were from, yeah, where folk grew up in Manchester.
17:30
SPEAKER_04: So you knew the area very we don't live in Manchester, we we live outside of Manchester, but that became our area.
17:36
SPEAKER_04: First house became literally two minutes from where you used to live.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: So and to say it it was a it was a good little deal, wasn't it?
17:44
SPEAKER_01: We uh we we don't just do your typical letters or your Facebook groups and things like that.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: We actually utilise other people, we utilize deal sources quite a lot because the way that the deals stack through the council, it enables us to fund the deal sourcing element fee and it enabled us to scale up pretty quickly with our own specifications.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think that helps as well because if you're both working full time, if you can do that and make it work financially, then do it, do whatever you have to do to get those the right deals because you guys know that if some deal sourcer brings you a deal, you're gonna run your own due diligence on it, you're gonna run your own numbers and figures, and you're gonna see whether it actually backs up what they're saying.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Because, as we know, a lot of deal sources do like to inflate everything.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do have to be careful, but as long as you know what you're looking for, why not utilize what other people are doing there?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, the the tenant type for you guys and girls is very much along the social housing platform.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the route that you've taken, which you know, there's no right or wrong answers to any of these, but actually, social housing is something that we're doing more and more of ourselves, yeah, because it's rewarding, but also because there's a great need for it, isn't there?
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Huge.
18:56
SPEAKER_04: There is, and especially across across Manchester and many other cities, you know, there is there's an absolute there's a homelessness crisis, and that's that's never never going to go away.
19:04
SPEAKER_04: And I think from for me and my background, being 10 years in not-for-profit, it it had it had to feel right for me.
19:11
SPEAKER_04: It had to feel that this wasn't just a business that I could earn money from.
19:15
SPEAKER_04: That's great.
19:17
SPEAKER_04: But I needed something to really sort of trigger me that this is this is giving back, it's doing good, and it's it's it's really it's really rewarding, you know.
19:28
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'll I'll never forget our first ever tenant walked in just a three-bed terrace house, nothing special, with a backpack on his back, and he'd just come from probation, and he he looked round.
19:42
SPEAKER_04: I remember you saying to him, Are you all right?
19:45
SPEAKER_04: And he said, Oh, I thought I was going into a hostel.
19:47
SPEAKER_04: Is this all mine?
19:49
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Well, the communal areas in one bedroom is yeah, but it is.
19:53
SPEAKER_04: And he was like, Wow, and I that is still our first, you know, he's not with us there now, but that Was that was still that first tenant that I remember, like so shocked and so surprised at what he was coming into.
20:05
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, We're doing something, we're doing something really good here.
20:08
SPEAKER_04: And I think from a landlord point of view, again, you you you know, you get more confidence with your objections, etc.
20:15
SPEAKER_04: etc.
20:15
SPEAKER_04: You know, we're very honest with our landlords.
20:17
SPEAKER_04: This is who's coming into the house, this is who we'll be working with.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: And of course, some are skeptical about that, but actually, we we we have a big support system, we have probation workers and support workers and council contacts and all those different things.
20:30
SPEAKER_04: So actually, if anything was to go wrong, we've got loads of different people that we can lean on for extra help.
20:39
SPEAKER_04: Whereas sometimes with a private tenant, it's just you against that private tenant, and there's not much else you can do.
20:45
SPEAKER_04: So, touch wood, that's worked really well for us.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: I love that, and it's also just helping somebody maybe that's just needs that, so to speak, that first step up the ladder to get them back into society, to get them back feeling good about themselves, and not just I'm a number, get pushed from pillar to post, ending up back on the streets, maybe ending up being you know, doing crime or or or just going backwards in what they're doing, and it's you know, I know rehabilitation and everything, everybody's different, but there are we we've had it actually because what we do is we house some some families or ladies as well from domestic violence, yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And we put them into I've only got little terraced houses that we do this with, but we put them into our two or three-bed terraced houses, and they're they're all they get quite emotional.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm not always I I don't do that on boarding myself, but I'm told about this afterwards, and they're almost like I wasn't expecting anything as nice as this, yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes it you know, it's it's it's like I say, that they're they're just both they're nice and clean, they're both standard and everything, but it's the fact that they can feel safe there, yeah.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's somewhere where they can collect their thoughts and they can sort themselves out.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you what, you you can't put money on that.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, we we've got a house in Withenshaw, which is a ladies on a female only house, and the there's two in particular that that are from a domestic violence background, and it's it's hopefully making a huge difference to them.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's that's great.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it the the thing is you you're building a business, and they always say the best business is to help people because if you're giving up people what they want, you get what you want, as the great Zig Ziglar says, but it's it's it's more than that, it's almost like just giving back to your areas, back to society, but also, yes, we've got we need to make money, but that's not a bad thing because everybody needs you know, the councils and everything are going to pay somebody to do this, yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So why not make it you?
22:39
SPEAKER_00: But I think the fact that you've committed to this, you've gone out there, you've done good deals, you've used the resources around you, but you've stayed connected as well, you're still reaching out to people, you're still getting to know people.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of people think that they can build a property business sat behind a computer at a desk and they're overanalysing things.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: And probably it's all about relationships, isn't it?
23:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, it is.
23:01
SPEAKER_04: And I think, you know, even with your existing landlords and people that you work with as well, you know, uh you I remember again through the training, you always said one landlord could change everything for you, and it's really important, even those relationships are kept because you know, you can go and find landlord after landlord after landlord, but you then build that good relationship with that landlord who's just referred you to his friend, referred you to his sister, referred you to this person, and suddenly it's just like any business, you should look after your clients because you don't know who they know, you don't know what opportunities they have behind the scenes, and you know that that can really develop things as well.
23:40
SPEAKER_04: Just you know, don't take things for granted, I don't think.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think the current landlords that we've got now are because of how established we've become, they know that we're not just a brand new starter, we've been going for three years as a property business.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: I think that gives a lot of credibility, and I think once they see that and they check on company's house that we're trading properly and all the rest of it, I think that's when we get the the referrals of other landlords.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: So one friend will refer another friend, and before we know it, we've got another two or three bonus houses without having to do anything.
24:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's funny you just say that about company's house.
24:12
SPEAKER_04: I remember one of the first landlords had sort of like huge due diligence and gone and you know, gone and checked us out, and and and company's house might have only been established for six months, and they were like, No, you don't exist.
24:24
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Oh my god, everyone's gonna do this poll.
24:27
SPEAKER_04: What are we gonna do?
24:29
SPEAKER_04: Turns out I think we've probably had two do it in two and a half years, you know.
24:32
SPEAKER_04: But again, don't let anything like that stop you because just because one person's gonna do that doesn't mean the next is it doesn't mean any you could have been self-employed for one for the last three years, just because you've you're limited business doesn't mean that you establish business or not, does it really?
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, I mean I always say, you know, particularly if you're working with me and things like that, is is piggyback off of me and say, you know, I've been working with Mark in South Yorkshire.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: We've now in Manchester, we're starting this for ourselves, which is why our company's brand new, but we've got that amount of experience behind us because if there's any problems, we can do it this way.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: But also, I mean, when I had my first deal with a with a landlord, I remember I took him to Costa for a uh a coffee and we were having a chat and stuff, pulling up the rapport.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And that was amazing.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: He said, I like you, I wouldn't mind working with you.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: He said, But obviously, I reckon if I check your business, it's gonna be relatively new, isn't it?
25:21
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah, yeah, it is.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I'd set it up at that point, totally new because you won't even find it.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: But uh probably had, I think I had just about set it up.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: But I do remember waiting for the bank account to be opened, and that was taking a couple of weeks.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: But I just said to him, Listen, I'll be completely transparent with you.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I said that you're gonna be the first client of mine.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, uh, but you're always gonna have a uh you know a soft place in my heart, and you're you're gonna get the best service possible because you're the guy that's gonna take a punt on my new business, and I want to perform, I want you as a testimonial.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: So let's work together and let me do an amazing job for you.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's yeah, the people business.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if he if he was a bit sour or or or wasn't warming to me, or likewise, I wasn't warming to him, it just wouldn't have worked.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: No, so it is about just getting out there and just start talking to people.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, you guys are great anyway.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: You're very you're very chatty, you're very approachable in things.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: But did you find it nervous when you started chatting to agents and landlords?
26:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh I I I definitely did.
26:21
SPEAKER_04: Um I think Paul's background in architecture work helped him a little bit in the sense that you know, going around a house.
26:26
SPEAKER_04: So if you if you if you imagine like a licensed HML, there are obviously certain things that you're looking at uh and and all those different things, even when we were start sourcing.
26:34
SPEAKER_04: So you you and Paul's background is much more sales than that mine is.
26:38
SPEAKER_04: So I think you were well, I'm probably answering for you, but I I I was the first one or two times.
26:44
SPEAKER_04: I'm fine once I do it one or two times, absolutely fine.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think I think for myself, I think it was fairly natural.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: I think it because I could talk from an architectural background, I think that gave confidence to especially landlords when we're talking face to face or walking around a property, but it didn't take you long at all to get your confidence up and running.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: I think obviously with the training that helped as well, really.
27:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, definitely.
27:06
SPEAKER_04: It's it's really funny.
27:07
SPEAKER_04: I I rang an estate agent the other week and she said to me, I said, da da da we went to rent management.
27:13
SPEAKER_04: She said, Oh, we don't need company lets.
27:15
SPEAKER_04: I said, Oh, I said, You don't let your landlords know that they could get potential commercial contract and da da da da da da.
27:22
SPEAKER_04: No, you need to speak to the manager.
27:24
SPEAKER_04: And I said, Yeah, please.
27:25
SPEAKER_04: I said, obviously, because your landlord might be really interested in this, and I think it's fair that you've got to give him that opportunity.
27:30
SPEAKER_04: And I was laughing to myself because I thought, oh my god, if I'd have had that a year ago, two years ago, I'd have gone, okay, no problem.
27:36
SPEAKER_04: And it's just time, isn't it?
27:38
SPEAKER_04: It's just that belief in yourself and that confidence, and anything you do, you the first day on your new job, your first day at college, if you don't know, that's why you train and learn and go through it.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's it, it's just getting out there and doing it.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I I've I've been into estate agents, letting agents and things bought houses obviously to live in myself before I started in property.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I found it quite nerve-wracking the first few times I went to speak to an agent about my property business.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And I've always evaluated and looked back at that and said to myself, why I could walk in there as somebody who's going to buy a property, or maybe even as a landlord who has a property to rent.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Why am I so nervous about talking about my services?
28:19
SPEAKER_00: And the main thing was, I think, because it means a lot to you, you don't want to make a mistake, and you think you need to know everything, or I did, and I think you just need to get that out of you and just go in there and have a chat.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I've always tried to approach things very much like you did there, JD, is this is how we can actually help you.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not what we can sell to you, it's it's how we can work together and we can you know do a win-win situation for yourselves.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: It gets a property off your books, it makes your landlords happy, and that's how we can help you.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: And I think once you once you get that attitude and that mindset, it makes it so much easier because you're thinking to yourself, I've got to tell these people, yeah, and I really want to push it because we can genuinely help.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's that that's a great place to be, isn't it?
29:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it is, yeah, definitely.
29:04
SPEAKER_04: It's that again, it's back into that belief.
29:06
SPEAKER_04: And you know what?
29:07
SPEAKER_04: If it goes wrong, you're not gonna see them again, doesn't matter.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: No, that's it.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Um what's what's yeah, have a little think now.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: What's been one of your biggest, so to speak, challenges in your property business that you you've thought out, or maybe you just thought, oof, we need to get over this bit of hurdle or a bit of doubt or something like that.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: We've got one main one that would be the police.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh so from a social housing background, obviously, sometimes we get certain characters in these buildings that maybe go back into old habits.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: So if they don't check in with probation, the police will pay a visit and things like that.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: So, quite often, especially when they've just moved in, we may get contact from the police to say, Are they still there?
29:48
SPEAKER_01: What are they up to?
29:50
SPEAKER_01: But apart from that, I don't think there's anything major.
29:52
SPEAKER_04: No, and again, we speak to them.
29:54
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we do little things like we knock on the neighbours and say, if there's any problems, ring us.
29:58
SPEAKER_04: Don't ring the police, you don't need to ring the landlord, ring us, and we'll sort it out.
30:02
SPEAKER_04: So, so we deal with that really well.
30:04
SPEAKER_04: I think early on, it's I think early on it's cash flow because you know, again, as you get more experience, you can negotiate with landlords to pay in arrears rather than up front.
30:14
SPEAKER_04: But if you are dealing with deal sourcing and you're paying up front, and then you've got to get locks on each door, and then you've got to get a bed, and then you've got to get bedding, it it adds up.
30:24
SPEAKER_04: So you I think at the beginning it feels very scary and it and it and it's and it's tough.
30:30
SPEAKER_04: And we are dealing with councils and funding, so that changes.
30:35
SPEAKER_04: That changes, and I think you've got to be like with any business, really, ready, ready if there is a curveball, ready if there's a risk, and and start looking at different things.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: There was yeah, totally.
30:45
SPEAKER_04: No, no, I was gonna um I think one.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was just gonna say, as regards to the cash flow, on our first ever deal, the landlord wanted a deposit, she wanted the first month's rent up front, and from our point of view, still relatively new.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: We had a little little money in the bank.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: We were I don't know how we did it, but we negotiated where no deposit, and the first month's rent was paid in 30 days' time, and that changed everything.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: And with the council incentives, we inducted new tenants, and before we knew it, it was cash flowing positively.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it was just that first deal.
31:19
SPEAKER_04: I think we've also learned there's one house we've given back, yeah.
31:23
SPEAKER_04: Um, and we it was probably our third or fourth house, I think, and we got excited and we took it on.
31:30
SPEAKER_04: And there's a couple of things that we probably shouldn't have we shouldn't have done it for a couple of reasons, and that came apparent after.
31:37
SPEAKER_04: But again, I think these lessons are really good for us because we know now we don't need to rush for the deal.
31:43
SPEAKER_04: If if it's not stacking right, or the landlord's not right, or something just doesn't feel right, leave it because there'll be another opportunity because it normally comes back and bites you after.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like March used to say that and the big thing was it's gotta be a deal for everyone.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, uh, it's got to work for the landlord, we've got to find out what that pain point is, which is normally rent, but at the same time, it's got to stack for us.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't stack, a deal's not a deal.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, exactly right, exactly right.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad hopefully the part of the training where I went through we don't pay deposits, yeah, and we've got to pay our rents at the end of the month and stuff might have helped that.
32:21
SPEAKER_04: So uh that's still it does that's still our biggest thing now.
32:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm actually negotiating with somebody today on a seven-bed HMO to visit tomorrow, we're through a saucer, so that's harder because obviously you can't get straight to the landlord.
32:35
SPEAKER_04: But that's probably the thing I must have to explain every time.
32:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we're not a tenant, we don't pay deposits, you're covered if there's damage anyway.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no voice.
32:45
SPEAKER_04: You don't benefit from that deposit because you should be putting in a DPS scheme anyway, so it shouldn't be helping your cash flow.
32:51
SPEAKER_04: So, realistically, what difference is he making?
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
32:54
SPEAKER_04: But again, you know, when you have that on the first deal or the secondary, you're like, Oh my god, but they want this, and what we're gonna say, it's just experience.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we're confident enough to deal with that objection, yeah.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think with the value that we've got together, to be fine, that's quite a unique thing.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: The fact that it's two of us as well, I think gives them that added security, and I think I think, yeah, it's we're we're confident enough now to say no to stuff, yeah.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I I think you well, you obviously are, and I can see it.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: The proof's in the pudding, you're building a great successful business, which is always inspiring to see, which is why I love to have people like yourselves on here.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: The other thing is you're a bit like me in the sense that a lot of my opportunities and deals now just come through referrals.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people say to me, What are you actively looking for?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not actually, I'm just seeing what comes my way because normally I've got a few opportunities that are coming my way that I am working on.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, we had a portfolio last, well, it ended last year, but it was the year before.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: And I went down to have a look at a 12-bed HMO, yeah, and found out the landlord had a portfolio, and in the end, we've done a purchase lease option on a whole portfolio.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was just the discussions, but it came through a letting agent who rang me up and said, You might want to do a rent-to-rent on this.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Now, as I walked into the property, the 12-bed HMO, it's a very student HMO.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like looking at that thinking, no chance whatsoever.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm not taking this on because I I have a certain standard that um properties have to meet.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: But if I'm gonna buy that property in the future, I don't mind spending a few quid on it, and we can obviously really maximize the returns, it works very, very well.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's great to have those referrals because there are opportunities everywhere.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: It's just making sure that we a know what to do with the opportunities and making sure that they are the right opportunities for us.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Brilliant stuff, brilliant.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: So we've gone through the challenges.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: What's been one of your biggest wins?
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I think from my point of view, I think the biggest win is a working so closely with my wife because you're never quite sure how it's gonna be, and I think we we do work really well, but I think from a business point of view as well, I think I think just getting our first deal from from my side was like actually we've got something here, and we've just persuaded a stranger who lives in London, who has a house in Manchester to give it us.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think until you get our first deal over a line, it's like, is it really gonna happen?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: Are they gonna trust us?
35:18
SPEAKER_01: So I think from my point of view, it's probably hard to be honest.
35:21
SPEAKER_04: I think um, I think for me it's the fact that they work with the councils.
35:25
SPEAKER_04: I don't think we sometimes actually sit back and give ourselves enough credit for that.
35:28
SPEAKER_04: You know, we're working with you know large councils and you know, working directly with them, placing their tenants, and and that's a big thing, really, to be honest.
35:39
SPEAKER_04: And I think that it's it's it's credible, credible, credibility for us for for one, when we're talking to other people, but just the fact that we've even got that, I think is really, really good.
35:50
SPEAKER_04: Yes, um, and I think sometimes you have to go back and celebrate the small wins.
35:53
SPEAKER_04: We always used to, he owes me two bottles.
35:57
SPEAKER_04: This will make sense in a minute.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: Every time we got a new house, we would buy a bottle of champagne, we would open it and celebrate it on every new house, every new deal that we did, just to remind ourselves that we've got another deal and we shouldn't take it for granted, really.
36:12
SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, he owes me two bottles at the minute.
36:15
SPEAKER_04: So this is now recorded online.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: It could be five of the three that we're about to find, it could be five in total.
36:22
SPEAKER_04: So just buy me a crate, that's five.
36:24
SPEAKER_04: Great.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, I was gonna say, sorry, Paul, sorry for the remote.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: That's an expensive podcast episode.
36:31
SPEAKER_04: Whoever gets the uh whoever gets the deal, so whoever's obviously got it over the lines.
36:35
SPEAKER_04: If I'm buying him one or he's buying me one, we celebrate each other's successes as well.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really nice as well.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, Paul, from from your perspective, to say that one of my successes is working closely with my wife.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: That's that could have gone either way, that one.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's actually success.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And people always warn you saying, like, is it a good idea?
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Are you both gonna get on well?
36:56
SPEAKER_01: But I think to be fair, we are, and it sounds really cheesy, we are best friends, yeah.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: And I can we're in the office now, we sit literally next to each other, and thankfully, she's uh she's good to work with.
37:08
SPEAKER_04: I think it was I think it it was more challenging for us when we were trying to do full-time jobs, anybody was scrambling to do whatever we needed to do, yeah, yeah, like tension, like well, you've got to go and do that.
37:21
SPEAKER_04: Well, I can't have got a massive deadline at work and I can't sneak off, and you have to sneak off, and that no clarity on who was doing what.
37:28
SPEAKER_04: Whereas the minute we quit our jobs and then went to full-time, then we had that clarity.
37:34
SPEAKER_04: There was no, of course, we cross over on things we have to sometimes, but actually working completely together, yeah.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: We were quite lucky as well because of JD's job was literally full-time nine to five office base within a reason.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh, whereas mine was full-time remote working.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: I was in charge of an energy sales team nationwide, so I didn't have staff, I was working in our office.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: But what it came on me to do quite sneakily, if we had a viewing or we had a problem at one of the houses, I could go to the house, I could work remotely.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Anytime I had a teams meeting, I could change the background, so they didn't know where I was, and I think that was a blessing in disguise.
38:16
SPEAKER_01: I think if you were working on your own, working in an office nine to five, I could understand how hard it could be.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: So I think we were quite lucky, really.
38:27
SPEAKER_04: But you still have to, you still have to take some risks, don't you?
38:31
SPEAKER_04: Because it, you know, we could still do a team meeting and still do a zoom zoom in a kitchen with a different background, but he still had a 40-minute journey to get there, where then that's that's risky, isn't it?
38:40
SPEAKER_04: So, but you still make the calls to your teams and you do everything, so you are still working to a degree, but you've got to take you've got to take some risks, unfortunately, if you if you want something, don't you?
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, you have to, you've got to commit to it, you've got to take the risks, and everybody has should have a lunch break.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know we all get physical things.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in my corporate, when I was working with Swift and everything like that, I probably would work through a lot of my lunch breaks, or I'd be still working.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: But when I started looking at property uh just before I'd left there and took voluntary redundancy, I was determined then to have my lunch breaks because you know, at the end of the day, but I needed them.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I needed that time to make phone calls and to get out there and talk to people and things.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So that's really, really good.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: They're really interesting as well.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: And it shows through, you know, you your business, you're smiling, you're getting out there, you're talking to people, you're building it, you're growing it.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: What does the sort of future look like for you guys then?
39:31
SPEAKER_00: What do what are you thinking?
39:33
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think it it kind of probably uh contradicts what we no, maybe not contradicts, but what we said before in the sense that we were very strict on staying in our lane, like I said, and and and being really good at the rent to rent and social housing and working those contacts.
39:47
SPEAKER_04: But now, a couple of years later, I feel we feel now it is time for us to start looking at other opportunities and taking things to the next level.
39:55
SPEAKER_04: Rent to rent is great and it's helped us build our business, but we want to start purchasing.
40:00
SPEAKER_04: Our own properties at some point, looking at different income streams and but again doing that slowly, carefully, considered doesn't need to be a big rush, doesn't need we don't want to get that wrong.
40:11
SPEAKER_04: But I think it's now developing to the next stage.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we've we're seeing the profits that are available to the rent to rent, and we make nice profit per property.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: But the thought of actually owning that property, not having to pay the rent of£1,200 a month or whatever that figure's going to be for a three or four-bed house.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think we're ready to be fair.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: We've got two properties ourselves.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: We're looking at maybe refinancing them, releasing the equity and taking the plunge, really.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to uh seeing those results as well.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to do a quick fire round where I ask you a few questions about stuff.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Are you all right with that?
40:50
SPEAKER_00: A bit of fun.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool, cool, go.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, both of you can answer individually as well.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh we get some really, really good answers on there.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: So the first one is what's the best bit of advice you've ever been given?
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that is take your time uh and do the training.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: Okay, um not be advice, but a quote or anything.
41:13
SPEAKER_04: Everything happens for a reason, you just don't know what it is at the time.
41:16
SPEAKER_04: So it's just that little add-on.
41:18
SPEAKER_04: Everything's happening for you at some point.
41:20
SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Trust in it.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: No, I like it.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Like it.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: That's what it's all about.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: That's what it's all about.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: If you could sit down and have dinner with three people, okay, dead or alive, who would you like to sit down and have around your table?
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Who would we like on our dinner table?
41:36
SPEAKER_04: I'll go first.
41:37
SPEAKER_04: I would I'd definitely have my dad who is past.
41:40
SPEAKER_04: My dad had an entrepreneurial spirit, had his own businesses, and I would love to sit with him and tell him what I was doing.
41:47
SPEAKER_04: And he'd probably be working in it, even if he was 80-90 now, he'd be doing something.
41:51
SPEAKER_04: So he'd be involved on 100%, yeah.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: I would love to have David Goggins of all people.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Okay, purely because of the mindset.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: These he's just built differently to anyone that I've ever met or known.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: And I just love to see half an hour with him, would be, I think, would be incredible.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: And then a joint one, who really was.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh um should have three each.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: I need to just have three with you.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's do a joint three, but who would be?
42:21
SPEAKER_04: I need a property person, maybe.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't have to be property, it can be anything.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll rubbish on this one, I don't know.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: No, it's all right, it's all right.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: So it does it, it's a question that makes you go blank and stuff, and then as soon as you come off of the podcast, I can reel off six of these people.
42:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:44
SPEAKER_04: We will.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: But I always like to think of who inspires you, you know, whether it's in property, whether it's in sports, whether it's in uh entrepreneurship, you know, who are people that if if they have something to say, you tend to listen to.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: That's that's how I try and think of it.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: The big one for me, going back 10 years ago, would have been Alex Ferguson, of all people, as well.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: Purely from a man management point of view, general standards, uh, as a person, as a human being, an incredible person.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: I think he would be really good.
43:14
SPEAKER_04: I know.
43:15
SPEAKER_04: People will laugh at me for this.
43:16
SPEAKER_04: He always laugh at me.
43:17
SPEAKER_04: She's my favorite.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know who's she gonna say, Kim Kardashian.
43:21
SPEAKER_04: Okay, people think that she's just this social media, da da da.
43:25
SPEAKER_04: She has huge brains, she works so hard.
43:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think she's really inspiring actually what she does behind the scenes.
43:31
SPEAKER_04: She doesn't have to lift a finger and she does.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but she hasn't got there overnight.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: I know they come from a background of it, but her branding and everything and the way she's made herself and the name and stuff, everybody knows who they are.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Everybody knows who she is.
43:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
43:47
SPEAKER_04: But I'm not allowed to watch the Kardashians when Paul's around, so that's when he of course you can go fishing.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all right, nice, nice, nice.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: Do you listen to podcasts?
43:57
SPEAKER_00: If you do, what are your three favourite podcasts?
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Um who have I started listening to?
44:04
SPEAKER_04: Um yours, Mark, or general podcasts.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Just general podcasts.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: To be fair, Mike, I've especially in the early days, I thought yours were insane.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: From our learning point of view, I loved having yours on in the car, especially when you had certain guests, especially from the Facebook group, someone that I could relate to, especially like Danny Calgill.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: It just resonated a lot more with me.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: People that I've seen.
44:30
SPEAKER_04: You're probably more of a podcast person than me, aren't you?
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I like to do a lot of mindset stuff in the car.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: It's a great place and time for me.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Just people hate driving or commuting, and one thing that I did like when I worked in an office was the drive to work or driving to Blackpool for my daughter's football practice.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: I could put on a podcast, be it David Goggins, Diary of a CEO.
44:53
SPEAKER_04: I've always liked Stephen.
44:54
SPEAKER_04: We've been to see Stephen in Manchester, haven't we?
44:56
SPEAKER_04: An event.
44:56
SPEAKER_04: I've always liked the Diary of a CEO.
44:58
SPEAKER_04: I think they're they've always been really good.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just yeah, just just strong-minded people, I think.
45:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, brilliant, brilliant.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: And the last one, which is the famous books.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Have you got three top books that you would recommend?
45:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not really a book reader, to be honest.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Or audiobooks, if you listen to them.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: But if not, it doesn't matter.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: The the one that I've got on at a minute is the art of not giving a an F.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Um it's actually the way that he comes across prioritizing certain aspects for me has made me look at things differently about prioritizing my time, my energy, so to speak.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: What are you reading at the minute?
45:38
SPEAKER_01: You actually do read books.
45:39
SPEAKER_04: I'm actually reading at the minute Tim and Phil's book that we got from the book launching.
45:44
SPEAKER_04: So that's actually what I'm reading in the minute to learn about that.
45:47
SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to think of some of the business ones that I've read in the past that I really love.
45:50
SPEAKER_04: But that's I'm one I can pick up a few books and put them down.
45:53
SPEAKER_04: So I need to uh like focus.
45:55
SPEAKER_04: So uh I'm I'm actually on Tim and Phil's getting.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: Um Jay Shiati as well.
45:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: Um is it my like a monk or something?
46:02
SPEAKER_01: I think it was that was quite a good one as well.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: So we're not we're not massive book readers, I think, especially from my point of view.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Podcasting and audiobooks are what I prefer, they seem to think in better.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:14
SPEAKER_04: I'm quite visual, so I like to train in on seeing stuff and short things are better for me.
46:19
SPEAKER_04: I like to see and listen to to things rather than necessarily just hear.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'm I'm a bit of both, I'll be quite honest with you.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: I I can listen to it, get the aha moments, and then I like to read it or have it in front of me to be able to see it as well.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I'm probably quite a visual person when it comes to that as well.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: What a quick fire round that was.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: That's another bit out.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: Keep it on here.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all good fun, it's all good fun, brilliant stuff.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, I always like to ask this question as well because there's a lot of people that will listen to this that hopefully will take, you know, they'll they'll take the nuggets away from it, they'll be inspired by it as well, because that's what it's all about.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: That's why we do these podcasts as well.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: But if you've got anybody, so to speak, sat on the fence that's looking to get started in property, doesn't really know what to do or how to get out there, is feeling a bit trapped and stuff.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: Having been there and done it now yourselves, what advice did you give them?
47:13
SPEAKER_01: I think the obvious one is from my point of view, is attend as many seminars and coaching, free online coaching and things like that.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: But it was a game change of meeting you.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: But I think find a strategy that you think can work for your mindset, for your time, availability, and things because people jump, as we know, from SA to rent to rent to deal sourcing, but just pick one, trust the process and stick to it and believe it will happen.
47:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
47:45
SPEAKER_04: I think don't don't don't rush and get all excited and carried away.
47:49
SPEAKER_04: Uh learn as much as you can, speak to people, and I think when you when you really look into things or you meet people face to face or like like we did with you, go with somebody that sounds really silly, this, but go with someone that is genuine and that you really believe in because you can absolutely get carried away with paying tens of thousands of pounds and and not really getting this, and then thinking that the people on the podcast it's all fake and da-da-da.
48:19
SPEAKER_04: You know, relate to people, connect to people, it's not fake, it's real.
48:23
SPEAKER_04: We were working two jobs, we did do our training, we did quit our jobs, we are working in property full-time.
48:30
SPEAKER_04: But so try and um sometimes try and remove that skepticism a little bit and and and believe in it, but make sure you're doing the things to do your due diligence to check it's genuine rather than just getting carried away too early because it's hard to believe it when you are at the beginning thinking this is never gonna happen for me, what am I gonna do?
48:51
SPEAKER_04: It will happen for you, just just due diligence, be careful, and do what's right in your heart, and it will happen.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: No, amazing advice.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think that's so so important as well because you you need to, I think, have a bit of a passion for what you're doing.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if you've got a cause, a worthy cause, or you're doing something that you believe in, then you're gonna make sure that it happens.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: And people that obviously struggle with this or give up too soon and things are the ones that are listening to.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: I I think I always say the Instagrammers that are out there saying, you know, I bought a house for£10, I spent five pounds on it, and I made 35 grand.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Here, I'll show you how to do it.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Now you can go in there, you can make money and things like that, but you're gonna have to graft, it's gonna take and it's gonna be challenges.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that I like to say because sometimes people get started on something, something happens and it goes boo, and they're like, Well, I wasn't expecting that, nobody told me that this this was gonna happen.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but think if think about it, surround yourself with the right people.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: But no, great advice, great advice.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's been absolutely amazing to have you both on, and I'm looking forward to hopefully getting you back on in the future once you know you've made a few more deals, a few different strategies or whatever, and see where you're getting up to and things.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: And have you got any final thoughts before we wrap this one up?
50:04
SPEAKER_04: I don't think so.
50:05
SPEAKER_04: No, I think just just one thing I probably would say if if somebody is alone and doing this, obviously, we we talked about benefiting from each other.
50:12
SPEAKER_04: Get a buddy and find somebody, there'll be buddies, so do that definitely.
50:16
SPEAKER_04: We're really looking forward to we're reinvesting now to working with you for the next 12 months, Mark.
50:21
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's really important as well.
50:23
SPEAKER_04: Uh, training and coaching shouldn't just stop the first time, you've got to keep reinvesting in yourself.
50:28
SPEAKER_04: Sports people do it all the time, so why don't business people you've got to have the same mindset?
50:33
SPEAKER_04: I think.
50:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that they've got to do, above anything, they've got to enjoy it.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and if you don't enjoy it, if you don't enjoy the long people that are working full-time, guys, it's long nights ahead of you.
50:45
SPEAKER_01: You've got to put in the graph, you've got to get up early, you've got to have the right focus and discipline, you've got to follow up on your on your leads and your actions, but above all, you've got to enjoy it.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't enjoy it, then it's not for you.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll leave it on that because that is exactly to you, Mark.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you again, Mark.
51:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's all right, it's an absolute honor and a privilege.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: And I am glad that you know you're joining the inner circle, so to speak.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna be helping you, supporting you, giving you the extra coaching on different strategies, and basically being there for you every step of the way, which I'm really, really excited about.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: And I I always like to say thank you because obviously I'm doing something right in the way that we're helping and supporting everybody because you guys are out there, you guys are getting the results that you want.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think just to follow on from what you both said then is it's almost like hard choices now, easy life, whereas loads people go for the easy choices and end up with a hard life that they don't want to be.
51:38
SPEAKER_04: Definitely, yeah, true.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: That yeah, amazing, amazing.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you ever so much for joining me here today.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you listening to this.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: I've enjoyed this episode as well.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm always inspired by the guests that I have on here because you know it shows that if you set your mind to it and you get yourself out there, you can achieve anything.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: If you need any further help and support with property investing or getting out there and actually taking action, then please do visit thepropertyunleash.com.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: We have free tools and resources there to help you and get you started onto the right track.
52:09
SPEAKER_00: If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with uh any of your friends or anybody out there as well.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you've really enjoyed it and take on one nugget away from it, please feel free to leave me a five-star review.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh it'll only take 30 seconds of your time, but I would really, really appreciate it.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't enjoyed it, don't leave a review.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: So, on that note, I will now say get out there, take action, really commit to what it is that you want to achieve out there because you can do it.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: And we're here to help you every step of the way.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: You'll take care and bye for now.