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A Female Firsts Special · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie in Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
0:07
Speaker 1: Never told you a production of iHeart Radio Today is
0:19
Speaker 1: such a special occasion for a lot of reasons. One,
0:24
Speaker 1: we are joined by our good friend Eaves Jeff Code
0:27
Speaker 1: as always for these female first We're so happy to
0:29
Speaker 1: have you. Eves. Hello, I'm really excited. There's just so
0:33
Speaker 1: many new things happening right now. So can we do it?
0:36
Speaker 1: Can we like break that fourth fall and say that
0:38
Speaker 1: we haven't been in the studio together when we're recording together.
0:41
Speaker 1: Is that a known Is that a known thing? I
0:43
Speaker 1: think you should break away. I was just gonna say
0:46
Speaker 1: that we're finally in the studio together again, as we
0:49
Speaker 1: haven't been in a long time, and it feels nice.
0:52
Speaker 1: That's one of those new things that's happening today. Yes, um, yeah,
0:56
Speaker 1: we're in the back in the studio for the first
0:58
Speaker 1: time and over a year and a half. Um, it's
1:00
Speaker 1: been very interesting getting everything set up and kind of
1:03
Speaker 1: getting back into the swing of how it used to be.
1:07
Speaker 1: And also we're not entirely sure if this is our episode,
1:11
Speaker 1: but we're going to say that it is. It's a
1:13
Speaker 1: special episode. Nonetheless, Um, it's a Sminty female first extrafic
1:17
Speaker 1: cancer and we finally have our cheesecake and our champagne.
1:23
Speaker 1: That just attackted me. So that was fun. Yeah. So
1:26
Speaker 1: we were going to open it on Mike, but it
1:28
Speaker 1: decided to open by itself and we screamed, and I
1:32
Speaker 1: don't know if I screamed or not, but one of
1:34
Speaker 1: us did just blacked out. And we know that you're
1:36
Speaker 1: not going to hear that because we know you won't
1:39
Speaker 1: like screaming on Mike, So we were going to Yeah,
1:42
Speaker 1: I have a little sound effect. But though, yeah, that
1:45
Speaker 1: was that was fun. Yes, in case you're concerned, we
1:49
Speaker 1: are not going to be eating the cheesecake. Yes, it
1:55
Speaker 1: is here. It is beautiful strawberry based swipped cream. It
1:59
Speaker 1: is a New York style cheesecake with a couple of strawberries,
2:02
Speaker 1: several and some with cream. Quite delightful from Cheesecake in
2:07
Speaker 1: East Point, Atlanta. If you were wondering East Port, Georgia's
2:10
Speaker 1: Expoint Georgia, Atlanta. It's the neighborhood. I guess. I'm not
2:16
Speaker 1: gonna lie it's a burrow. It's not really, it's a neighborhood.
2:20
Speaker 1: Feels city proper, I guess, but it's East Point, Georgia
2:23
Speaker 1: and probably one of the best cheesecakes in Georgia in
2:27
Speaker 1: my humble opinion, of course, And now that I'm thinking
2:29
Speaker 1: about it, we all have the cheesecakes sitting here right
2:32
Speaker 1: next to us, and it kind of feels like dangling
2:34
Speaker 1: the carrot in front of the horse because I can't
2:37
Speaker 1: eat it look at its first, I thought it was
2:43
Speaker 1: going to be you. You're poking at it. From a minute,
2:45
Speaker 1: I was poking at it as if it's some type
2:47
Speaker 1: of creature or Yeah, so this is very, very exciting.
2:52
Speaker 1: Will definitely be trying the cheesecake at the animal give
2:55
Speaker 1: tasting notes. But in the meantime, I know Eaves, you
2:59
Speaker 1: had an idea to kind of have a loose conversation
3:02
Speaker 1: about first and their importance and the context around them
3:07
Speaker 1: and why that is important. Yes, yes, so I was
3:11
Speaker 1: just thinking, of course, if we're doing this twenty fifth thing,
3:14
Speaker 1: it could be like looking back, it feels like sort
3:16
Speaker 1: of a graduation, right, this is one of the speeches
3:20
Speaker 1: thinking at the end, But I just think that we've
3:22
Speaker 1: brought up a lot of times given that disclaimer that Okay,
3:26
Speaker 1: this is the first and there have been a bunch
3:28
Speaker 1: of different kinds of first for women, um that we've
3:31
Speaker 1: gone through in then so far, and each one of
3:37
Speaker 1: those always have people who have come before them, who
3:41
Speaker 1: have done something that contributed to the reason that they
3:44
Speaker 1: have that achievement that that we're talking about for the day.
3:48
Speaker 1: And so it's very fair to bring that up every time,
3:50
Speaker 1: and I feel like I can't not bring that up
3:52
Speaker 1: every time because first are such a tricky thing, Like
3:56
Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons why the people who
3:58
Speaker 1: aren't the first ones listed didn't. They didn't have the
4:01
Speaker 1: opportunity people didn't know about them, that wasn't in the
4:05
Speaker 1: history books that was ever written, that were made available
4:09
Speaker 1: and accessible to a lot of people. It's there could
4:13
Speaker 1: there would be a million and one reasons why somebody
4:15
Speaker 1: isn't at first for something. And I think just it's
4:19
Speaker 1: just really important to acknowledge the amount of access, resources, privilege,
4:26
Speaker 1: sheer look and all of those things that are involved
4:29
Speaker 1: in someone being a first, and so just remembering to
4:34
Speaker 1: keep that balance between yes, we should acknowledge this person
4:37
Speaker 1: as a first. And it's interesting and it's fascinating and
4:40
Speaker 1: it's compelling, and it's important in the grand scheme of
4:43
Speaker 1: things and in different lineages, but there is also a
4:48
Speaker 1: lot of other nuance that goes into it that we
4:51
Speaker 1: have to pay attention to, and we have to remember
4:53
Speaker 1: when we're talking about people and framing them as first,
4:57
Speaker 1: because we don't want to just say this person was first,
4:59
Speaker 1: and even at that, we don't want we don't want
5:02
Speaker 1: it to be a thing where we think that just
5:04
Speaker 1: because something is the first, that exalts them above other people.
5:08
Speaker 1: They do have super cool stories and the things that
5:11
Speaker 1: they do are very pioneering, very bold and brave and
5:15
Speaker 1: risky and all of those things, but they're not they're
5:20
Speaker 1: not to be all end all. They're not at the
5:22
Speaker 1: begin dinner at the alpha and though Omega, So yeah,
5:25
Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to talk about that today
5:27
Speaker 1: and give that that conversation a little bit more space
5:30
Speaker 1: because we usually mention it. I think people understand it,
5:33
Speaker 1: but it's just something that we bypass, and it's also
5:36
Speaker 1: something that's so prevalent, like it's it's something that's always
5:40
Speaker 1: going to be worth talking about if we're thinking about history,
5:42
Speaker 1: because we're living history all the time and we're still
5:46
Speaker 1: setting first, and that's something that's that comes up so
5:48
Speaker 1: much in the news, like what we just why is
5:51
Speaker 1: this the first? And those first are honestly often very
5:55
Speaker 1: granular talking about and I sometimes in my life I'll
6:00
Speaker 1: be like, I bet I'm the only person in the
6:02
Speaker 1: history of time to have ever uttered this sentence. But
6:05
Speaker 1: it's like so specific, the first to slip on a
6:09
Speaker 1: banana on twenty first Street West Atlanta, Like okay, right,
6:15
Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, that's why I wanted to bring
6:18
Speaker 1: it to the table today. I know y'all have some
6:20
Speaker 1: good thoughts about it too, because we've talked about a
6:22
Speaker 1: little bit before. Yeah, I think that is a really
6:27
Speaker 1: great point and something to always keep in mind, especially
6:30
Speaker 1: when just through this job and through researching in general,
6:34
Speaker 1: it can be really easy to oh, here's the first
6:37
Speaker 1: and okay, that's that's it, and I'm done. But so
6:41
Speaker 1: much of it depends on who has been writing history
6:44
Speaker 1: and even what country you're in, because sometimes I'll be
6:47
Speaker 1: researching something for um, a country that doesn't speak English,
6:51
Speaker 1: and did it's just not uploaded to the internet or
6:54
Speaker 1: wherever I have easy access to it? And I also
6:58
Speaker 1: think I do it is important to share these stories
7:03
Speaker 1: and even if they're not at first right like they
7:05
Speaker 1: could be happening all around the same time, and I
7:08
Speaker 1: think that a lot is like, I bet a lot
7:10
Speaker 1: of instances of things there were people doing kind of
7:14
Speaker 1: similar things at the same time, having these similar accomplishments,
7:17
Speaker 1: because it just kind of makes sense to me. And
7:19
Speaker 1: I'm thinking more like less about feminist history in this case,
7:22
Speaker 1: but I also researched food a lot, and to me
7:25
Speaker 1: it just makes sense like a bunch of people at
7:27
Speaker 1: different times would have been like, oh, what if I
7:30
Speaker 1: boil fish in this dish? Sounds great? Like But so
7:34
Speaker 1: when you try to get to a first and like,
7:35
Speaker 1: I bet a bunch of people, but who got the
7:39
Speaker 1: who got the attention? Who got written down in history?
7:42
Speaker 1: And I do think it's almost exciting to be like, Okay,
7:45
Speaker 1: here's this first, but then ask all these questions of why,
7:49
Speaker 1: and maybe you can find somebody who history hasn't shown
7:53
Speaker 1: a light on, or find another story that people don't know.
7:56
Speaker 1: And history is always it can feel static when you
8:00
Speaker 1: are looking back at ancient times, especially older times, but
8:02
Speaker 1: you can uncover things that people we didn't know, and
8:06
Speaker 1: I think that's very exciting. It is, and that Okay,
8:12
Speaker 1: this is random and kind but kind of related that
8:15
Speaker 1: just makes me think. I often think that with drugs
8:18
Speaker 1: like recreational our psychoactive drugs, who was the first to
8:23
Speaker 1: try this thing and say, wow, this has a psychoactive
8:26
Speaker 1: effect that I think I want to try again, and
8:27
Speaker 1: I should probably introduced to more people, right the first
8:32
Speaker 1: person to do that? Will we ever know? Well, with
8:35
Speaker 1: some like you know, some of the herbs and medicines
8:36
Speaker 1: that people have used for a really long time, Like
8:39
Speaker 1: I'm just wandering by and I see this plant and
8:41
Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to just like I don't know,
8:43
Speaker 1: rub my fingers on and it's niff it or like
8:45
Speaker 1: grind it up and put it in the five I
8:47
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how they were ingesting in
8:50
Speaker 1: early days. And then it kind of goes back to thinking, also,
8:53
Speaker 1: how many people have died think they could do the
8:55
Speaker 1: same thing with other things and they couldn't. It was
8:58
Speaker 1: poisoned and they're dead and thanks for trying, and now
9:01
Speaker 1: we never know, and we never know. It's it's like
9:04
Speaker 1: the people who are developing medicines and drugs and they try,
9:09
Speaker 1: they test on themselves first, You're like, well that was
9:13
Speaker 1: a mistake. Could try dude, Thanks for letting us know, yeah,
9:17
Speaker 1: And I think overall, with all of the female first
9:19
Speaker 1: that we talked about, I think what's fascinating is again, yes,
9:22
Speaker 1: we have to come back to the fact that we
9:23
Speaker 1: don't actually know if they were the first. We say
9:26
Speaker 1: we think that like the first recorded to have done
9:29
Speaker 1: these things, and it's very important that we put those
9:31
Speaker 1: caveats on there. But I think that's part of the
9:34
Speaker 1: reason why we're coming back to it, because the people
9:36
Speaker 1: that you bring to us are the people who should
9:38
Speaker 1: have been credited, but because of whether it's they are
9:41
Speaker 1: of a different race or ethnicity and there and of
9:44
Speaker 1: course the overall powers of the white supremacy in general
9:49
Speaker 1: are the ones that like, no, but we want to
9:51
Speaker 1: be as the changemakers and get the credit and get
9:55
Speaker 1: the money and get all of these things. For so
9:58
Speaker 1: long it's still happening today to the fact that we
10:00
Speaker 1: are having brand new first with people of marginalized communities
10:05
Speaker 1: because for so long it was being um gate, kept
10:08
Speaker 1: away from anybody allowed to even be participated to be
10:12
Speaker 1: a first. And like think about the spelling be the
10:14
Speaker 1: fact that we finally have a young black girl being
10:17
Speaker 1: the first young black girl to win the spelling b
10:20
Speaker 1: I'm like, really, it's one how like that doesn't make sense,
10:25
Speaker 1: Like I hate that that's what we're celebrating. I hate
10:27
Speaker 1: that we're not just celebrating her victory but because she
10:29
Speaker 1: became a first in one. But those conversations are like,
10:33
Speaker 1: but why how are we still here at this point
10:38
Speaker 1: in time? And just the same as when we talk
10:40
Speaker 1: about the Oscars or any kind of film and the
10:43
Speaker 1: fact that we have to argue, no, but it was
10:45
Speaker 1: because of racism, is not because they're not good at
10:48
Speaker 1: making films or you know, this community is not great
10:50
Speaker 1: at having this because they don't have access or opportunity,
10:54
Speaker 1: and that is absurd, and like, of course this goes
10:57
Speaker 1: back to all the political conversations that we have about
10:59
Speaker 1: a firm to action and any of those things. And
11:02
Speaker 1: now I guess critical race theory, which blows my mind.
11:04
Speaker 1: I can't I can't handle it. It's kind of one
11:06
Speaker 1: of those things. I'm like, if I have to talk
11:07
Speaker 1: about this one more time, or not to read this
11:09
Speaker 1: one more time about this ignorant person not understanding how
11:13
Speaker 1: this is actolutely hilarious because critical race theory has existed
11:16
Speaker 1: for a minute figuring this out and the fact it's
11:22
Speaker 1: been out there, and the conversation has been out there,
11:24
Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's been for the longest
11:26
Speaker 1: time held back from, like, I guess, popular conversations, popular
11:33
Speaker 1: historical conversations in schools because people are freaking racist. And
11:37
Speaker 1: that's why I didn't learn about Skiky. I didn't learn
11:40
Speaker 1: about Tulsa any of that until I got into college
11:43
Speaker 1: and became a social worker, which you know, is a
11:45
Speaker 1: little towards especially when it comes back to the fact
11:47
Speaker 1: that I came into a point of trying to learn
11:49
Speaker 1: about social justice and what that looks like as a
11:51
Speaker 1: social worker and why these conversations have to happen. But
11:54
Speaker 1: because I was in that field is the only reason
11:57
Speaker 1: I knew all these things. And I'm like, this is absurd,
11:59
Speaker 1: this historical Just because you don't like it doesn't mean
12:03
Speaker 1: we can't learn about it. It's like you have to
12:05
Speaker 1: be predisposed to caring about those things to even get
12:09
Speaker 1: to the point where you have access to learn about them.
12:12
Speaker 1: It feels like a problem that will never be solved
12:14
Speaker 1: because for the people who aren't predisposed to things like
12:16
Speaker 1: social justice and social work, they're just never They're going
12:20
Speaker 1: to stay in the dark right. And that's kind of
12:23
Speaker 1: like when shows like this one or any marginalized community
12:28
Speaker 1: like produced show where it's like niche and that puts
12:32
Speaker 1: like female first, Oh that's a niche instead of just
12:36
Speaker 1: the men white men, and we like learn about in school.
12:39
Speaker 1: That's not that's just how it is that you have
12:41
Speaker 1: to search out these other stories that are not presented
12:46
Speaker 1: in like an easy way or in our own education
12:50
Speaker 1: here in the United States. So yeah, you have to
12:52
Speaker 1: take it upon yourself. So like, yeah, you gotta do
12:54
Speaker 1: the work and you have to know what you have
12:56
Speaker 1: to have the questions to ask, yeah, exactly, which is
13:00
Speaker 1: really hard and especially with the wealth of information that
13:02
Speaker 1: we have available to us at this point, how do
13:06
Speaker 1: you sift through that? I don't know if there's too
13:21
Speaker 1: much of a tangent, but it just makes me think
13:23
Speaker 1: about how prevalent or how how much we say the
13:28
Speaker 1: phrase just google it, and how we use that when
13:32
Speaker 1: we like, I think about interactions that we have in
13:34
Speaker 1: social media, and when somebody doesn't provide sources for an
13:37
Speaker 1: argument that they're trying to make, somebody will say, well,
13:39
Speaker 1: just do the work on your own, just google it.
13:42
Speaker 1: But and that makes sense, like do the work. But
13:45
Speaker 1: at the same time we need to consider the fact
13:48
Speaker 1: that you still have to know how to sift through Google,
13:51
Speaker 1: like that googling something and alone is a whole like
13:55
Speaker 1: knowledge base that you have to have. It's a whole skill,
13:58
Speaker 1: like no one how to google things and how until
14:00
Speaker 1: one thing apart from another, Especially for people who don't
14:03
Speaker 1: have that much familiarity with tech, it's like, Okay, google it,
14:07
Speaker 1: then what do I do with that information? Right? Right,
14:10
Speaker 1: It's still the same difficult. Information is still complex. And
14:15
Speaker 1: we talked about it with our book club about Inferior,
14:18
Speaker 1: just how science was so biased and it looks really like, oh,
14:21
Speaker 1: it's scientific words, and this dude is a doctor, so
14:24
Speaker 1: I believe it. But in the end it was very
14:25
Speaker 1: misogynistic and sexist because he wanted to be misogynistic and
14:29
Speaker 1: sexist and lean to the fact of men are powerful,
14:31
Speaker 1: women are weak. That's the way it is. And it's
14:34
Speaker 1: kind of the whole thing about anything on Google. You
14:36
Speaker 1: have to work through it because the algorithms alone, you
14:40
Speaker 1: never understand why you're getting what you're getting half the time,
14:43
Speaker 1: and whether or not it is trustworthy and if it's
14:45
Speaker 1: a trustworthy site, I think we talked about that previously
14:48
Speaker 1: with Q and on, and we talked about that with
14:50
Speaker 1: Bridget repeatedly about how misinformation is so elaborate in this
14:55
Speaker 1: especially in the world of the Internet, which is why
14:57
Speaker 1: people believe people are eating babies, right, which is so absurd.
15:01
Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is, yeah, there's so
15:03
Speaker 1: much out there. Sure, googling it, but you don't know
15:05
Speaker 1: what you're getting and whether it's actually sound. I was
15:09
Speaker 1: gonna make it really bad. I was definitely gonna be like, well,
15:13
Speaker 1: babies are flush, don't make that joke nobody, and it happened.
15:26
Speaker 1: We've been canceled. Yeah, but yeah, I mean. And also
15:30
Speaker 1: we've done an episode on Wikipedia and how I mean
15:32
Speaker 1: this was a couple of years ago, but at the time,
15:34
Speaker 1: only sev of the entries on Wikipedia we're about women.
15:39
Speaker 1: I'm sevent So if you're googling it, and a lot
15:43
Speaker 1: of people do, they just go to Wikipedia doesn't exist. Um,
15:47
Speaker 1: And then you got to do do more work and
15:50
Speaker 1: you might just be like, Okay, that doesn't exist. I'm done,
15:53
Speaker 1: you know, but I do I do like how much
15:55
Speaker 1: of a conversation it is now because I was scrolling
15:57
Speaker 1: through and this was I wasn't even arching for it.
16:00
Speaker 1: When I was scrolling through my social media feed earlier today,
16:03
Speaker 1: I was there was an article about how it was
16:07
Speaker 1: the first entire team of women to call the MLB
16:10
Speaker 1: the Major League Baseball, and I was like, really, like,
16:13
Speaker 1: it's the first time that an MLB is game. And
16:16
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about Major League Baseball and baseball
16:19
Speaker 1: in general, but I was like, that's the first, right
16:21
Speaker 1: there in my face. Like we're always constantly talking about
16:23
Speaker 1: these kinds of things. And the other one that came
16:25
Speaker 1: up the other day was m J. Rodriguez being the
16:28
Speaker 1: first trans person to be nominated for a Lead Actress
16:32
Speaker 1: Emmy and and that's just wild. Yeah, It's like the
16:37
Speaker 1: sports news alone is infariating because literally last year was
16:40
Speaker 1: the first time they've ever had a coach with an MLB,
16:43
Speaker 1: and like, it's like, what what's happening? As well as
16:47
Speaker 1: we're talking about constantly the many wins that we don't
16:50
Speaker 1: hit talk about with like women's soccer. We know, we
16:53
Speaker 1: celebrate it, we are excited about it, but they're not
16:56
Speaker 1: talked about as much because they are women, and we've
16:58
Speaker 1: talked about they're not paid the worth, which is a
17:00
Speaker 1: whole other conversation, But it comes back back to that.
17:03
Speaker 1: It's women are not credited in general. The first are
17:09
Speaker 1: very much astrict half the time, whether it's because they
17:12
Speaker 1: don't want to give credit to it or they want
17:15
Speaker 1: to ignore it or try to have a but a
17:17
Speaker 1: man also does it. I love the code and there's
17:20
Speaker 1: a man a part of that. And yeah, and the
17:22
Speaker 1: other part of that is it's infuriating, and I know
17:24
Speaker 1: it is for those who have accomplished these amazing goals,
17:27
Speaker 1: who have accomplished these big things to have to be
17:30
Speaker 1: called female something or the first black woman or like
17:33
Speaker 1: it's like that seems you know what I mean. Like
17:37
Speaker 1: as much as I would love to be accredited with
17:39
Speaker 1: something huge like change, life changing, helping in some kind
17:42
Speaker 1: of social movement, but if my credit came as the
17:45
Speaker 1: first Asian woman, then it is a part of me, like, yeah,
17:49
Speaker 1: the first person. Why it's such a weird thing, But
17:53
Speaker 1: we have to in order to recognize how bad how
17:56
Speaker 1: there's no equity within any any industry, almost almost none
18:01
Speaker 1: when it comes to people in the marginalized communities being
18:04
Speaker 1: able to be credited with anything to begin with. And
18:08
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if there's to no once
18:11
Speaker 1: for now. But I mean that just makes me think
18:12
Speaker 1: because I definitely get that feeling like as a black woman,
18:16
Speaker 1: like knowing that so many things are it always feels
18:19
Speaker 1: like a caveat to say first black woman, Well there
18:22
Speaker 1: is a white woman who did it first, and then
18:24
Speaker 1: it's just left at that. Right, that's all the context
18:26
Speaker 1: that's going to be happening on only a certain amount
18:28
Speaker 1: of time. We have to recognize it because the part
18:32
Speaker 1: of the problem is a when it does happen, people
18:35
Speaker 1: are not being credited correctly. B Again, the marginalist communities
18:41
Speaker 1: are not given the same opportunities as all of the
18:44
Speaker 1: white community essentially, and what it comes down to the
18:47
Speaker 1: fact it's taken too long to get to the point
18:49
Speaker 1: that we start talking about equity versus equality and why
18:52
Speaker 1: we need to talk about that, and what the differences
18:54
Speaker 1: are and how important that we recognize those differences. But
18:58
Speaker 1: again it comes back to once again looking back on
19:01
Speaker 1: what has been happening and who has been doing things
19:04
Speaker 1: and who continues to do things, and the fact that
19:06
Speaker 1: we have to dig up that information without being able
19:10
Speaker 1: to actually just celebrate and enjoy it to what it
19:13
Speaker 1: is that is an authortity and kind of tragedy in
19:16
Speaker 1: the fact that it takes away from that celebration in general. Yeah,
19:21
Speaker 1: and I think in our capitalistic society that yes, does
19:26
Speaker 1: struggle with a lot of like diversity and sexism and
19:30
Speaker 1: racism issues. The companies use it as like, see, the
19:35
Speaker 1: first black woman to do this, is that our company
19:37
Speaker 1: or whatever, and it becomes like, look, how good we're doing.
19:41
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Also, I've been thinking about this because recently,
19:46
Speaker 1: as both of us I'm assuming no. Three billionaires are
19:51
Speaker 1: competing to go to space, and I've just been thinking,
19:54
Speaker 1: like to be the first, Like they want to go
19:56
Speaker 1: down in history and they wanted that that like title
19:59
Speaker 1: of I was the first person to do this commercial
20:03
Speaker 1: space flight. Like it just feels so gross, but like
20:08
Speaker 1: it feels different than when we talk about in our
20:11
Speaker 1: Female First series of women who were like, I'm passionate
20:14
Speaker 1: about this thing, I want to do it and I
20:17
Speaker 1: really care about it, whereas this feels like basically a
20:21
Speaker 1: dick competition where they want to be remembered in history.
20:25
Speaker 1: They want that, and it's just been something on my
20:28
Speaker 1: mind where I'm watching this unfolding. Still it sounds like
20:32
Speaker 1: they're trying to change a narrative, to be honest, to
20:34
Speaker 1: be like instead of the dickhead who took billions of
20:37
Speaker 1: dollars and didn't give about anybody else, especially their own workers.
20:41
Speaker 1: So why would we We're gonna be remembered for going
20:43
Speaker 1: to space and competing with this other two white dudes
20:45
Speaker 1: who I don't know one really cares about either, while
20:47
Speaker 1: everybody else suffers from unemployment, from disease, from death. I'm
20:52
Speaker 1: just maybe I don't know, um from the fact that
20:56
Speaker 1: you know, people that's working in my factories are being
20:58
Speaker 1: reprimanded and extra size and eventually fired if they speak truths.
21:03
Speaker 1: That's what it feels like to me. And and that's
21:06
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation in itself, because I just really
21:09
Speaker 1: want to Yeah, I don't know that, just like I'm
21:14
Speaker 1: really thinking about that now, y'all, because I'm sitting here
21:17
Speaker 1: like trying to make a similarities and differences list in
21:19
Speaker 1: my head, like what are what are the things that
21:22
Speaker 1: those two segments of people who are interested in pioneering,
21:26
Speaker 1: What are the differences between them? And what are the
21:28
Speaker 1: similarities between them? Because I'm like, you know, what are they?
21:32
Speaker 1: Of course, the resources and the access that you start
21:34
Speaker 1: with this one thing. But you know, is it that
21:37
Speaker 1: they're starting from a place of I care about this
21:40
Speaker 1: thing happening rather than I care about being the person
21:43
Speaker 1: to do it. I don't know. I don't know. I
21:45
Speaker 1: can't speak for them, but you know, so I'm not
21:48
Speaker 1: gonna try to. But I do think that a lot
21:50
Speaker 1: of the first that we talk about on the show
21:53
Speaker 1: are like they start from a place where they just
21:55
Speaker 1: want to do the thing because they care about it.
21:57
Speaker 1: They're just I am passionate about it. It I I
22:01
Speaker 1: want to do it, But me being the person to
22:03
Speaker 1: do it is just because it's not it's not from
22:06
Speaker 1: a place of as much ego, right, And it doesn't
22:11
Speaker 1: necessarily matter that they are the one to do it,
22:14
Speaker 1: and they might not even be equipped to be the
22:16
Speaker 1: ones to do it. That's the other thing. Like these
22:18
Speaker 1: guys know, they got the metal, the hunks of junk
22:23
Speaker 1: into the space, but like these these women that we
22:27
Speaker 1: talked about in Female First, like they they aren't necessarily equipped,
22:30
Speaker 1: Like they have to do a lot to get to
22:33
Speaker 1: the point where they are even able to pursue the
22:36
Speaker 1: things that they're thinking about. And it's it takes a
22:40
Speaker 1: lot of metal, right, well, I mean a majority of
22:43
Speaker 1: the women that we've talked about, or those um that
22:46
Speaker 1: we have discussed, are doing it out of survival, whether
22:50
Speaker 1: it's to get to a certain point, to be in
22:52
Speaker 1: a certain point in that career, or because they want
22:54
Speaker 1: to help others, or because they feel like this is
22:56
Speaker 1: something that they have to prove they can do because
22:58
Speaker 1: they're being told they can't because again, you're a marginalized woman,
23:02
Speaker 1: you can't do this type of conversation. And that is
23:06
Speaker 1: vastly different from Hey, I have billions of dollars and
23:09
Speaker 1: instead of helping someone, I just want to go to
23:11
Speaker 1: space for thirty seconds and you know, cool, you like it,
23:14
Speaker 1: you like my you like my racket. Not over compensating
23:18
Speaker 1: at all. But yeah, I think that's a giant difference
23:22
Speaker 1: in a majority of the people that we talk about,
23:24
Speaker 1: and not that again, it's not all about having to
23:27
Speaker 1: prove a point or do all of these things. And
23:29
Speaker 1: and if they want to do that thing, sure you,
23:33
Speaker 1: they are their own individual. Good luck. I hope everything
23:37
Speaker 1: works out for you. But I think the bigger conversation
23:39
Speaker 1: is who is benefiting from what you are doing? And essentially,
23:43
Speaker 1: when we look at these females, first, and we talked
23:45
Speaker 1: about it. They took down some barriers in order to
23:49
Speaker 1: get to there, and they went through so many hardships
23:52
Speaker 1: to get to there, and that's the big conversation. And
23:56
Speaker 1: even when they did, it's to this day it still
23:59
Speaker 1: hasn't changed that much, where it's still that difficult for
24:02
Speaker 1: someone who may be similar in ethnicity or in gender
24:06
Speaker 1: to try to do the same things and they still
24:07
Speaker 1: can't do it, or they still can't be acknowledge for
24:10
Speaker 1: trying to do it. Like that's that's part of the
24:11
Speaker 1: problem in this conversation is I know there was a
24:14
Speaker 1: couple of times where when we were talking about some
24:16
Speaker 1: of the women that I'm like, oh my god, we're
24:18
Speaker 1: still struggling and trying to acknowledge that this has changed.
24:21
Speaker 1: Why are we still here? It's like, oh, very familiar.
24:28
Speaker 1: Why are we asking whether this thing written two years
24:31
Speaker 1: ago was written today exactly? And I think that's called
24:35
Speaker 1: part of that is that these struggles that many of
24:38
Speaker 1: the women that we want to acknowledge, or many of
24:40
Speaker 1: those that we wouldn't acknowledge that have changed so many things,
24:43
Speaker 1: unfortunately hasn't changed things. We want to acknowledge them because
24:46
Speaker 1: what they did was powerful, but we're still fighting. And
24:50
Speaker 1: then that's where I get the most frustrated is every
24:54
Speaker 1: time we feel I feel like there is something that
24:56
Speaker 1: takes two steps forward, there's another thing that takes three
25:00
Speaker 1: steps back, and you kind of like what happened? I
25:02
Speaker 1: thought we were doing so well. Yeah, that's a good
25:05
Speaker 1: point because it's it does almost feel again going back
25:09
Speaker 1: to the kind of the caveat of you were the
25:11
Speaker 1: first woman or the first woman of um x y
25:13
Speaker 1: Z ethnicity, is it feels like it's almost saying, we
25:17
Speaker 1: allowed this to happen. Now stop, Okay, that's cool. First right, like, okay,
25:23
Speaker 1: you've done it, back off, this is our space. And
25:26
Speaker 1: then you have the same issues continuing over hundreds of years.
25:32
Speaker 1: And I do think that going back to what you
25:34
Speaker 1: were saying, Samantha, of the the obstacles a lot of
25:37
Speaker 1: marginalized people face when they get the first whether it
25:40
Speaker 1: was the first or not, but the one that is
25:41
Speaker 1: recorded that I'm not saying that there are not women
25:45
Speaker 1: out there who are devious and do just want history.
25:48
Speaker 1: That doesn't even have to be devious, but you know,
25:50
Speaker 1: want that recognition of being remembered in history. You know,
25:52
Speaker 1: like I want to be the first. That doesn't feel
25:55
Speaker 1: to me like there's an extra layer of determination that
25:59
Speaker 1: usually eyes care or passion, whereas if you're just a
26:04
Speaker 1: rich white dude and you're like, I want to go
26:06
Speaker 1: to space. Not the same. And also the feedback, the
26:11
Speaker 1: instant feedback that you get nowadays, is very different. What
26:15
Speaker 1: a lot of those people didn't get recognition in their day,
26:18
Speaker 1: and the recognition was different. The recognition wasn't via social
26:21
Speaker 1: media and like, because there's a lot of gratification that
26:25
Speaker 1: you get through that um and it wasn't on a
26:28
Speaker 1: global scale either. Like the access that we have in
26:31
Speaker 1: communication and worldwide global communication is a lot different. Now
26:35
Speaker 1: there's some of the people we've talked about, of course
26:37
Speaker 1: some were more recent, but it's different. You get another
26:42
Speaker 1: level of path on the back. Well, you know. And
26:46
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this because as we have done the
26:48
Speaker 1: women around the world trying to acknowledge just women doing
26:53
Speaker 1: significant things, whether it's being activists in something specific or
26:57
Speaker 1: if they're generally doing something with science or whatever. It's
27:01
Speaker 1: really interesting to me that the people that always pop
27:03
Speaker 1: up are the celebrities, are those who we already know.
27:05
Speaker 1: So I feel like half of the women that we've
27:07
Speaker 1: talked about with the female first, even if they did
27:09
Speaker 1: exist today with the social media, still wouldn't get half
27:12
Speaker 1: the accolades that celebrities and those who do nonsensical I'm
27:19
Speaker 1: trying to be sensitive here, just whatever, whether it's people
27:22
Speaker 1: are getting more acknowledgement for acting and then saying a
27:26
Speaker 1: controversial statement than a person who has been struggling within
27:30
Speaker 1: their community as a marginalized person, whether they are of
27:34
Speaker 1: a different uh, if their trans or if there you
27:37
Speaker 1: know any of those people, or are scientists, are female
27:39
Speaker 1: scientists trying to make change. It's really hard to dig
27:42
Speaker 1: up that information and kind of like what you're talking
27:44
Speaker 1: about the Wikipedia even today, it's like, why don't they
27:46
Speaker 1: they just did this huge thing and they have three
27:49
Speaker 1: sentences to their names. I don't understand. I need more information.
27:53
Speaker 1: Where can I find this information? But that's kind of
27:56
Speaker 1: that same level today that yeah, these women did some
27:59
Speaker 1: amazing things and historically has been finally on Earth where
28:02
Speaker 1: we can do a show or a segment and actually
28:04
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what they did. But to
28:08
Speaker 1: the level of what we see as popular or what
28:10
Speaker 1: does go viral, it's like, why what was happening. Why
28:15
Speaker 1: I don't get it. It's that algorithm, and I wonder
28:20
Speaker 1: about how many more times in this universe in the future. Well,
28:25
Speaker 1: we go through this ordeal where we're like, oh wait,
28:29
Speaker 1: we thought a guy did this on his own, but
28:31
Speaker 1: there was a woman who was there, who who was working,
28:35
Speaker 1: um to make this thing happen. I can only imagine,
28:38
Speaker 1: Like it sucks to think about, but you know, we've
28:41
Speaker 1: heard those stories a lot before. We were like, oh wait,
28:44
Speaker 1: this thing that we thought we knew about, and this
28:45
Speaker 1: guy that we thought made this discovery, there was actually
28:49
Speaker 1: a woman who was very uh integral and all of
28:53
Speaker 1: this been making this happen. I mean, it kind of
28:55
Speaker 1: happened with the hashtag meto stuff in fact that a
28:58
Speaker 1: white woman came out and put it and she made
29:01
Speaker 1: it viral. Sure, but she didn't create it, but everybody
29:03
Speaker 1: wants to acknowledge her as the creator when it was like, no, no,
29:07
Speaker 1: this black woman has been on this for like ten years.
29:10
Speaker 1: You just put it on Twitter. What's happening? Why you know?
29:12
Speaker 1: And the fact that it took another year to undo
29:15
Speaker 1: that and be like, hey, you gotta learned to give credit,
29:18
Speaker 1: which you know, we've talked about that a lot is
29:20
Speaker 1: like oftentimes how it's miscredited so quickly and so fast. Yeah,
29:26
Speaker 1: And I just want people to I want people to
29:29
Speaker 1: know that your personal histories are important to like your
29:34
Speaker 1: personal histories, your family who like you, live in the country.
29:38
Speaker 1: You know, your grandma was always on the ports telling stories.
29:42
Speaker 1: You know, you you thought they were fantastical, or you know,
29:47
Speaker 1: you thought that you weren't that interesting and you didn't
29:50
Speaker 1: deserve you don't deserve to be in history books. You know,
29:52
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves a lot of lies about who we
29:54
Speaker 1: are as individuals and his families and our value in
29:57
Speaker 1: the world. And all of these people who we've talked
29:59
Speaker 1: about out so far are just normal people. You have
30:03
Speaker 1: fascinating things in your histories too, and they deserve to
30:07
Speaker 1: be remembered. And you know, I think that I don't
30:10
Speaker 1: know if people call it duty our obligation, but it's
30:12
Speaker 1: something that's worth considering and thinking about as we go
30:14
Speaker 1: through our lives. Just acknowledging the things that are in
30:19
Speaker 1: our personal histories as grand as grand as the things
30:22
Speaker 1: that are in the history books that you read about.
30:25
Speaker 1: You know, you deserve to be immortalized in textbooks that
30:29
Speaker 1: are bound and laminated as well, Like you know, we
30:33
Speaker 1: care about those things we're talking I'm talking about all
30:35
Speaker 1: these women who have families that are still living that
30:38
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I know that it feels so
30:43
Speaker 1: far away sometimes, But there are first in your story
30:47
Speaker 1: too that you may not know about and that you
30:49
Speaker 1: may know about, and if you do have them and
30:51
Speaker 1: you know them, like that is a think of that
30:53
Speaker 1: as a privilege. You know, share those things, write them
30:56
Speaker 1: down and you're you might have kids, you can share
30:59
Speaker 1: them with our net use or nieces or whatever who
31:02
Speaker 1: will be like okays, whatever whatever. But I mean, you know,
31:09
Speaker 1: that's always a struggle, like trying to get the used
31:12
Speaker 1: to understand importance that you um but I just know
31:17
Speaker 1: that you know that's important too in these stories. I
31:19
Speaker 1: feel like and I hope that all the people that
31:21
Speaker 1: we've talked about in the series have helped you understand
31:25
Speaker 1: that they were normal, average, They were still human beings.
31:30
Speaker 1: You know, they had to go use the bathroom to
31:31
Speaker 1: write and as in fact a lot of them didn't
31:34
Speaker 1: know that their history would be talked about, like they
31:37
Speaker 1: died thinking that they felt a lot that That's kind
31:39
Speaker 1: of that conversation of like giving flowers while while they
31:42
Speaker 1: can um after the fact. But yeah, a lot of Again,
31:46
Speaker 1: there's a lot that you don't know how you've impacted
31:48
Speaker 1: with two others. And I try to keep thinking of that,
31:51
Speaker 1: Like I remember having all those bad moments in my
31:54
Speaker 1: social workist Like, all I'm doing is making sure kids
31:57
Speaker 1: are alive today. So that's the end of it. But
32:00
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is you never really know
32:03
Speaker 1: what you've said, what you've done, what you have influenced,
32:05
Speaker 1: Whether there is a small conversation that's helps someone have
32:08
Speaker 1: a bigger idea that could save who knows, a whole
32:11
Speaker 1: generation of people who are stuffing through something that we
32:15
Speaker 1: don't know about. Yeah, yeah, it opens on us something
32:21
Speaker 1: something Matt and I were recently talking about grief and
32:37
Speaker 1: how you never know after you're gone, like the little
32:40
Speaker 1: things that you did, how they impacted a bunch of people.
32:44
Speaker 1: And oftentimes Yeah, I was I was really bad about
32:47
Speaker 1: um being that kid who is annoyed with my grandparents,
32:50
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, they were so cool, Why didn't I? Yeah, yeah,
32:56
Speaker 1: And I do think I think that's a really beautiful
32:58
Speaker 1: sentiment because there's so much history that's lost when it
33:03
Speaker 1: just comes to yeah, what was everyday life like for
33:05
Speaker 1: a person, because we all do experience things in slightly
33:09
Speaker 1: different ways, at least slightly differently, um a lot of
33:12
Speaker 1: times much differently. But in having that record and knowing
33:18
Speaker 1: that these were lives people lived and these were the
33:20
Speaker 1: things that they dealt with can really help us when
33:24
Speaker 1: we're looking back, like, Okay, I don't want to think,
33:28
Speaker 1: you know, the eight hundreds is still applicable today, Like
33:31
Speaker 1: how can we change that? And I think if we
33:33
Speaker 1: did take the time to listen to people who maybe
33:37
Speaker 1: aren't historically like the first but like record their stories
33:42
Speaker 1: and preserve them and listen to them, that it would
33:45
Speaker 1: hopefully help us either like learn and move on or
33:50
Speaker 1: slowly move on as it seems to be our even
33:53
Speaker 1: just have people feel like, oh, yeah, I'm not alone,
33:55
Speaker 1: because I do think that is a huge that's really
33:57
Speaker 1: important is to think, Okay, I'm not doing anything wrong,
34:01
Speaker 1: I'm not alone, like the other people had similar experiences
34:05
Speaker 1: to me. And I think, how long will these stories
34:09
Speaker 1: that we're telling, these female first that were introducing the
34:12
Speaker 1: people are, you know, letting people know more about how
34:14
Speaker 1: long would they be true? Like I see like like
34:19
Speaker 1: it's a really fair point about you saying like this
34:20
Speaker 1: is the first recorded that I will put it there
34:24
Speaker 1: because I'm like, in what way can I fact check
34:29
Speaker 1: fact check that? Um, And I just have to believe
34:32
Speaker 1: that it is, like I don't have a way to
34:35
Speaker 1: fact check it, so not in any way where I
34:38
Speaker 1: can go back and know that there wasn't another person
34:40
Speaker 1: who was already there who did this thing in some instances,
34:44
Speaker 1: And I feel like, now coming back to just after
34:46
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation that feels like a blessing and
34:49
Speaker 1: a curse where it's like, oh, it sucks because there's
34:53
Speaker 1: so much that we don't know and we don't have
34:55
Speaker 1: access to and that wasn't told and that was purposefully
34:58
Speaker 1: kept under wraps. At at the same time, that might
35:01
Speaker 1: mean that there is another amazing story that has to
35:05
Speaker 1: be told, and that feels exciting. So I feel like
35:08
Speaker 1: maybe I should stay on the optimistic side of it if, like,
35:11
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this first won't be the first for forever,
35:14
Speaker 1: but that also means that there's opportunity for someone else
35:16
Speaker 1: to get shine, and that there's also the possibility of
35:22
Speaker 1: somebody else being recognized, somebody else, you know, being loved
35:26
Speaker 1: on and somebody else getting flowers, and somebody else just
35:30
Speaker 1: having a little bit more of their story to continue
35:32
Speaker 1: to exist in the world after they're gone, right, Yeah,
35:34
Speaker 1: but play stop unwerthing those mummies, y'all. Quit it, quit
35:40
Speaker 1: it all right, yeah, I think and and going with
35:44
Speaker 1: all of that, I love that we get to discover
35:47
Speaker 1: new things and talk about new things, and it is fascinating.
35:49
Speaker 1: Stop with the mummies for real, though. But there's also
35:52
Speaker 1: something to be said about the fact that legacy has
35:54
Speaker 1: become too big of an iconic idea of what you're
35:59
Speaker 1: leaving behind. I think what you were talking about, what
36:01
Speaker 1: you were talking about the individual finding themselves and or
36:04
Speaker 1: knowing that you may be doing something bigger than you know.
36:07
Speaker 1: And just because it doesn't sound like that other person
36:11
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're not leaving something behind. And the legacy
36:14
Speaker 1: is just an individual thing. Whether it's you left it
36:17
Speaker 1: to your daughter, you left it to your son, and
36:18
Speaker 1: you left it to your friend, you left it to
36:20
Speaker 1: the nice You know that the fact that you're being
36:22
Speaker 1: remembered that is a legacy and that's a good thing.
36:25
Speaker 1: And the fact that if you're developing and if you're
36:30
Speaker 1: having good relationships, that is a legacy and it is
36:33
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing and you have no idea what that
36:36
Speaker 1: turns into. You just decolonized legacy, check a checkism. I
36:49
Speaker 1: give you a chance. I love it. Yeah, that I
36:54
Speaker 1: think that really resonates with me. I remember once I
36:56
Speaker 1: had a I had a job where I was just
36:59
Speaker 1: kind of I was trying to catalog this language so
37:01
Speaker 1: it didn't get completely lost, and somebody gave me this
37:04
Speaker 1: great advice and they're like, just go sit, just go
37:06
Speaker 1: sit and listen to people and like talk to them
37:09
Speaker 1: and share their stories. And it was so beautiful. It
37:11
Speaker 1: was such a beautiful experience and people were so giving,
37:14
Speaker 1: and I think that's something we forget. I did that
37:16
Speaker 1: with my own father, or once I was it was
37:20
Speaker 1: his school assignment and I was supposed to interview him
37:22
Speaker 1: about it and I just like I didn't want to
37:25
Speaker 1: do it and I hated it. But when I did,
37:27
Speaker 1: it was really interesting, like a lot of the things
37:29
Speaker 1: that I got answers that I didn't know, and I
37:32
Speaker 1: was like, oh, and I could connect with him. Was
37:34
Speaker 1: like at the time, I was so into Green Day
37:37
Speaker 1: and he was talking about being like Billy Joe. I
37:43
Speaker 1: shouldn't say this because many people know this. I'm gonna
37:46
Speaker 1: stick Champagne. I did, Okay, tiers to that keep going,
37:55
Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't know what you'll uncover. And I
37:57
Speaker 1: think that's one thing that I've been thinking about a
38:00
Speaker 1: lot lately, is just asking people the question, like taking
38:04
Speaker 1: the time and thought and you it doesn't have to
38:07
Speaker 1: be this big, amazing thing, but it can tell you
38:10
Speaker 1: a lot about history and connection, and it can be
38:13
Speaker 1: something that just for some reason means so much to you,
38:16
Speaker 1: and that can be like a legacy that you remember
38:19
Speaker 1: when someone is gone. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I had a
38:25
Speaker 1: panic attack as a child, and I know this is
38:27
Speaker 1: extremely ridiculous, um, and my mom was like, what was
38:31
Speaker 1: going on? And she I said, what if one day
38:35
Speaker 1: I can't watch Star Wars and it's gone. It's just
38:38
Speaker 1: been erased. And that is one of the reasons I
38:40
Speaker 1: rewatch it all the time, so that in case it disappears,
38:44
Speaker 1: I can just play it in my head. Um. So
38:47
Speaker 1: there's some type of fear around legacy that I can
38:50
Speaker 1: unpack it myself later. Um. But there's a horror movie.
38:54
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a genre, but it's kind of
38:56
Speaker 1: something that happens in horror movies. A lot that really
38:59
Speaker 1: terrifies me. It's kind of related and not related, but
39:02
Speaker 1: it's when somebody accomplishes something or does something or learn
39:06
Speaker 1: something and then there they get killed or they get
39:09
Speaker 1: trapped and you never find out about it. And there's
39:13
Speaker 1: something about that like not knowing um like or like
39:19
Speaker 1: they can't tell you. And then a lot of times
39:21
Speaker 1: it's a situation where somebody is rising to power and
39:25
Speaker 1: then they kill someone and that person knowss like when
39:28
Speaker 1: they're up to and then it's too late and they're
39:30
Speaker 1: stealing and there in a power position. And anyway, this
39:33
Speaker 1: is I've never thought about that before. It's a real
39:37
Speaker 1: anxiety that I have. Um. I used to be that
39:40
Speaker 1: way with Anastasia. I was a strange child, like no
39:43
Speaker 1: one will ever know what happened Anastasia like interject with
39:49
Speaker 1: I'm a strange that the very strange apparently, but I
39:55
Speaker 1: just find that I don't know why. But I've been
39:57
Speaker 1: thinking about that. This whole conversation of just that kind
39:59
Speaker 1: of it makes me sad and also like scared in
40:02
Speaker 1: a way to think of these stories that have just
40:04
Speaker 1: been lost and we might not ever recover. Yeah, but
40:08
Speaker 1: they think if I can make you feel any better
40:11
Speaker 1: hands I turned this into an intervention pleas about me.
40:16
Speaker 1: The Champagne is perfect intervention. They still happened. Memory isn't
40:24
Speaker 1: the only thing that matters, Like, of course it's important,
40:28
Speaker 1: but the people who lived at the same time, and
40:32
Speaker 1: and we're able to acknowledge them at the same time,
40:34
Speaker 1: and even if that didn't happen, because we know a
40:36
Speaker 1: lot of times they weren't completely acknowledged, and we're doing
40:38
Speaker 1: things in very siloed ways that they might have still
40:42
Speaker 1: been fulfilled. They might have still been fulfilled, and the
40:45
Speaker 1: things they did still happened even if they weren't acknowledged,
40:48
Speaker 1: for which I feel like it's a bitter pill to
40:50
Speaker 1: swallow because it's like, oh God, another white man took
40:53
Speaker 1: credit for something. Fine, but they still did it, and
41:00
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. To feel better, I
41:10
Speaker 1: guess it's it's also and we're getting into really deep
41:13
Speaker 1: territory now, so we might want to veer out, but
41:16
Speaker 1: it's it's also something that I think a lot of
41:18
Speaker 1: us struggle with and I've been struggling with of like
41:21
Speaker 1: how upsetting it would be to be misremembered and you
41:26
Speaker 1: can't do anything about it. M M. And this is
41:31
Speaker 1: part of the horror movie thing that I'm talking about.
41:33
Speaker 1: It's a lot of times it's like, not only were
41:36
Speaker 1: they killed and then this evil person rised power, they're
41:40
Speaker 1: misremembered and painted. It's like, oh, he was the trader
41:43
Speaker 1: all along. I wondered about that when we talk about
41:48
Speaker 1: the first serial color Bathroom, and I'm like, the question
41:53
Speaker 1: maybe that she was more just a woman in power.
41:55
Speaker 1: They just wanted to ruin her reputation, and that's what
41:58
Speaker 1: we know of her today. That's killer who killed women
42:02
Speaker 1: or young girls and virgins for their blood and bade
42:05
Speaker 1: them their blood. That was that whole reference. But it's like,
42:08
Speaker 1: what did that really happen? Or was it because they
42:10
Speaker 1: were just afraid of a woman in power? Well that's
42:13
Speaker 1: kind of one of the joys of storytelling to you know, right.
42:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's that isn't that'sn't really practical,
42:20
Speaker 1: But if you think about it, that's what we do.
42:23
Speaker 1: We sensation a lot of things, whether that's one way
42:25
Speaker 1: or the other, and so I don't know, I get
42:29
Speaker 1: it like we can vary. I feel like it can
42:31
Speaker 1: definitely enter ha geography. Territory. With a lot of these
42:34
Speaker 1: women we talked to her, it's like we just exalt
42:37
Speaker 1: and praise them, not really having known their character, not
42:41
Speaker 1: at least personally, Like we have things that are documented
42:45
Speaker 1: that are like first person things that are documented which
42:47
Speaker 1: are often also not true, which is the thing that
42:51
Speaker 1: comes up a lot, like when we're reading their biographies,
42:54
Speaker 1: they don't you know, they don't tell the truths about themselves.
42:58
Speaker 1: At some said with these feomlet first, it's been like
43:01
Speaker 1: age age is a big thing that people who I
43:03
Speaker 1: about they're like, yeah, I was born this year, or
43:05
Speaker 1: they're just very lax about when they were or sometimes
43:08
Speaker 1: they just don't know as well. But it's that's a
43:11
Speaker 1: very strange thing when you're reading about people in the past.
43:15
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's that's okay in a way
43:22
Speaker 1: because I don't know. I guess that's meat speaking as
43:25
Speaker 1: a storyteller, where it's like, yeah, we can, Yeah, it's
43:30
Speaker 1: it's cool to like, you know, embellish. It's also a
43:34
Speaker 1: Black tradition embellish stories. So I feel like that might
43:38
Speaker 1: be part of my reasoning as well, Like that's also
43:42
Speaker 1: a very country thing to do, like up growing up
43:44
Speaker 1: in LJ that was a thing, Like everything was like
43:47
Speaker 1: grander and or larger than people say, Like, right, that
43:50
Speaker 1: doesn't make yeah, yeah, I got I'm cool with that part,
44:01
Speaker 1: you know, do you're exaggerate all the way. I just
44:04
Speaker 1: don't want to be remembered as a murderer when true.
44:08
Speaker 1: It's already so hard to tell the difference between what's
44:11
Speaker 1: real and what's not on the internet. Like how many
44:13
Speaker 1: memes have you seen that are attributed to the wrong people? Right?
44:16
Speaker 1: Are just unknown quotes that are for a specific person,
44:20
Speaker 1: or quotes we don't know who they were attributed to
44:21
Speaker 1: and people attributed them to them, and people who know
44:25
Speaker 1: that those quotes aren't for that person but will share
44:29
Speaker 1: a mean anyways, Like things are gonna be so confusing
44:33
Speaker 1: in the future, and communication is already going to be
44:36
Speaker 1: so difficult because there is a time difference between where
44:40
Speaker 1: we are now and wherever that person may be in
44:41
Speaker 1: the future. Stuff, Right, it's just going to get even
44:43
Speaker 1: more complicated. I mean, as we talk about it, things
44:47
Speaker 1: changing and being misrepresented definitely, Like with the AI stuff.
44:52
Speaker 1: The Bourdain documentary just came out, and the big controversies
44:56
Speaker 1: that they used AI essentially to piece together because memoirs
45:01
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, what y yeah, and things like deep fakes. Yeah,
45:07
Speaker 1: that that honestly freaks me out kind of scary. So
45:10
Speaker 1: you're right, Oh yeah, let's return to that one at
45:16
Speaker 1: a later date. Yeah, let's do that. We started at
45:20
Speaker 1: the positive place. Yes, we we were on a very windy,
45:27
Speaker 1: windy road, countries as very seasonal changes all throughout. Some
45:32
Speaker 1: some clouds, darkness, yes, lots of colors, fall leaves, followed
45:38
Speaker 1: by some gray, lots of gray. We talked about murder, drugs,
45:42
Speaker 1: all kind of things. So this has been a lovely conversation.
45:45
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to add? No, I think we
45:48
Speaker 1: ran the gamut, so we really Is it time for
45:50
Speaker 1: a bite of cheesecakes? I think it is so cheers y'all, cheers.
45:55
Speaker 1: The twenty five plus episodes, um and too many more
45:59
Speaker 1: and too many more, and the cheesecake and cheesecakes, it's
46:06
Speaker 1: falling them out. Does anybody want to describe the cheesecake?
46:10
Speaker 1: M let me move away, Okay, okay, satisfying, m sweet
46:21
Speaker 1: but not too sweet, little kind of vanilla. Right, It's
46:24
Speaker 1: not like I don't feel like my teeth are going
46:26
Speaker 1: to fall out after I'm done with this, Give me
46:28
Speaker 1: a minute, though, I really love the whip cream. I'm
46:30
Speaker 1: a really big fan of whipped cream and strawberries or
46:32
Speaker 1: strawberries involved. So the strawberries are fresh. Strawberries's important, that's important.
46:39
Speaker 1: Speaking of whipped cream, I used to eat whipped cream
46:41
Speaker 1: out of the like cool whip tub when it's frozen
46:44
Speaker 1: from the freezer. Frozen. I don't do that, but not frozen. Okay,
46:48
Speaker 1: so yes, I'm on the same plane. I'm also a
46:51
Speaker 1: whip cream fan. Well, I'm so glad we finally made
46:54
Speaker 1: this happen. Whether it's the twenty or not, we shall
46:58
Speaker 1: say it is. Oh, so what do we do for
47:00
Speaker 1: the fifty which is probably like ten episodes to be honest, Well,
47:05
Speaker 1: across that bridge when we get a double size to
47:10
Speaker 1: cheesecakes personal cheesecake for me? Okay, there we go. Okay, Well,
47:17
Speaker 1: this has been a delightful conversation. Thanks as always Eaves
47:20
Speaker 1: for joining us, Thank you for having me as always
47:23
Speaker 1: as well. Be yes the absolute best to Where can
47:26
Speaker 1: the listeners find you? I'm at Eves Jeff Cote on
47:29
Speaker 1: Twitter at not Apologizing on Instagram. You can also listen
47:32
Speaker 1: to me on this day in history class. You can
47:35
Speaker 1: go back and listen to a whole archive of a
47:36
Speaker 1: whole bunch of episodes that have cool biographies there too,
47:39
Speaker 1: and events that happen in history and unpopular Yes, and
47:44
Speaker 1: you should do that to listeners if you haven't already.
47:47
Speaker 1: Also ish episodes of this show. How do I always
47:53
Speaker 1: forget to say that? No worries And if you would
47:58
Speaker 1: like to contact as you can or email all this
48:00
Speaker 1: stuff India mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com.
48:02
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
48:04
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and stuff I've Never told you. Thanks
48:06
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, who is here live. Yes, yes,
48:13
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Sorry that we're eating
48:16
Speaker 1: peu secake and you don't have any anyway. Stephone every
48:21
Speaker 1: guilde's protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from
48:24
Speaker 1: i heeart Radio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple
48:26
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows