Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1234 - Teens and Tech Pushback

Transcript

#1234 - Teens and Tech Pushback · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Technology is the never ending challenge when it comes to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: raising children, especially once they get into their mid to lateeens.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: They own their devices and you still want to have
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a say in what they're doing, when they're doing it,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and even how they're doing it, especially when it's happening online. Today,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: What to do when your kids are pushing back against
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: your involvement in their tech Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: We are Justin and Kylie Colson, and every Tuesday on
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the pod we answer your tricky questions about family relationships, discipline, technology, wellbeing,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the whole lot. If you'd like to submit a question,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: we've got a super simple system at happy families dot
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: com dot Au. You just scroll down to podcasts, click
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: the record button and start talking, or you can send
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: us a voice note. Podcasts at happy families dot com
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: dot Au. Tough one today from Anna, who's got four
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: kids seventeen, seventeen, sixteen and ten. She says, our kids
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: are seventeen, seventeen, sixteen and ten, and the seventeen and
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: sixteen year olds refuse to let us have any access
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to their advices or take them off them at night
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: because they paid for them, so quote they're ours, not yours.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Any advice. They pay the monthly bills too. And a
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: second question from anonymous should I temporarily confiscate my fifteen
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: year old's phone for an e safety issue. We've decided
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to want these two together because they kind of go
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: hand in hand. So Kylie, I've got ideas, You've got ideas.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: We have. Well, our elders is twenty five, but I
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: think if you add up the age of all of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: our kids, we've got like one hundred years of parenting
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: experience going on here because six kids, it adds up fast.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: He sounded tired just hearing me say that. I don't
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: know why, all right, So I'm going to start, and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: i'd love to get your color and your input around this.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: First thing I want to say is that it's great
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that your kids are mature enough and capable of paying
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: for their own devices. In our home, we've generally said
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: if you can't pay for it, then you can't have it.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: When it comes to screens and devices. Once you've got
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: the money to be able to pay the monthly fees
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: to be able to buy the phone, then you can
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: have one. That's part of our delay strategy. But you
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: can't start parenting around technology once your kids are sixteen.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: And also you should expect that once the kids get
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to sixteen seventeen, they're going to start to push back,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: particularly when they are paying it is theirs. It's a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: developmental tension that they are naturally going to be saying,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for some independence here, I'm pushing for the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: opportunity to make my own decisions around this, and since
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I'm paying for it, the answer is no. So my
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: number one response here is that as a parent, you're
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: the one with a fully functional prefrontal cortex. Hopefully your
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: children we aren't, and you are therefore the one who
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: is still responsible for their health and safety. Devices at
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: such a sensitive time in their lives can have an
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: impact on the positive neural growth that we're all hoping
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: for as their brains develop. So, Kylie, this is really
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: a problem solving challenge where you're dealing with some potentially
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: really emotional adolescents who are trying to stake out their
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: claim to independence at identity and parents who are saying,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: but we care about you, we love you, We need
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to make sure you're safe, and we know better than you.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And so I guess this becomes the challenge. We want
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: our children to have responsibility, and so the idea that
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: they would have to save up in our case as
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: a delay tactic then provides another challenge for us, because
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: it's no longer our its ownership. They have ownership of it,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and so the idea that you would to then confiscate
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: something that's not actually yours in the first place seems
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: completely unfair to them. Whether or not that's right or
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: wrong is not the point.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm a really big opponent to the idea that
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: we would confiscate anyway. To me, that doesn't seem valuable.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem helpful. My sense is that that force
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: creates resistance les rules without relationship, and this does undermine relationship,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: will lead to rebellion. Problem solving. Effective discipline is not
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: about stepping in as the parent saying well, I'm the
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: one with the power, on the one with the prefrontal cortex.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: You'll do as I say, and it stops working somewhere
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in that sixteen to seventeen age bracket for a lot
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: of kids anyway, if not most kids. So we need
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to move into and this is the same for the
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: parent with the fifteen year old who's had an EE
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: safety issue. We need to move away from power based
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: techniques and tactics and step back and have a look
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: at what our overarching strategy is. So strategy is what's
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: the goal and how we try to get there, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: then the tactics are what are the specific things that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do to implement the strategy. After the break,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about strategy, understanding basic psychological needs,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: especially in hot emotional situations like this, and how we
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: can have worthwhile, effective conversations that do move the needle. Okay, Kylie,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: nobody likes to be told what to do. As soon
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: as you step in and say to a child, hand
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the phone over, they feel it's an affront to their autonomy.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: They resist, They rebel, They push against it. They say,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you can't make me, it's mine, I'm paying for it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: You have no rights, as you've correctly pointed out. So
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: my simple solution, I don't know if anything simple when
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: it comes to parenting, especially kids at this age, but
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: my simple solution is that we've got to have conversations
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that are focused on finding solutions, problem solving conversations. And
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the central strategy that I promote is a need supportive strategy.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I've been talking about it for ten or twelve years.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: It's called the three E's of Effective Discipline. I've got
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: a question for you. Did you know that I was
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: going to end up at the three e's.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was just wondering whether the vicious circle was
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: going to come first.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'd love to talk about it, but we're not
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: going to have time for the vicious circle today. We're
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: just going to focus on the three e's. So explore,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: explain empower. We've been through this countless times with our children.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: What do you think is the hardest part.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Of explore getting them to talk?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Hmmm, okay, So you can sit down with the kids
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and say, all right, we just want to understand where
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you're at. And they sit there with their arms crossed
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: across their chest, their chin in their chest as well,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: they're looking down and they just grunt. They won't involve themselves.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Well, this is in their minds. This is a tricky conversation, right,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: because they know exactly what it is you want out
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: of this conversation, and they know that phones are at
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: the heart of all the conflict, and.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: It's the precious, that's right, Gollum. The wicked parances, they're
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: taking away the precious.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: And so they don't want to lose it, and they've
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: already made up their mind how this conversation is going
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: So I've got a couple of things that can help
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to frame and establish the conversation in a healthy, positive
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: way that will encourage talking. First of all, I really
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: encourage having treats, whether it's a chocolate milkshake or you
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: want to pull out the food processor and make up
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: something extra special, like some homemade ice cream.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Would you say an apple or a binama?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't. I said treats, the sort of stuff
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: that the kids are going to be like, Oh, this
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: is so awesome. You've recently been making and it's a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: super easy recipe from what I've seen, although I haven't
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: made it myself. You've been getting some fresh fruit, like
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: some fresh berries or some fresh watermelon and chucking in
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: a bit of ice and some sugar and creating some
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: sawbet and the kids are going crazy for it. So,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: if you're willing to put five or ten minutes of
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: effort in the kitchen, you create the sawbet or the
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: homemade ice cream with the food processor, and then you
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: sit down say hey, let's have a chat while you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: taste this amazing saubet or whatever other treat you've decided
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: to cook up for the kids. It softens the mood
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: straight away. They've got food in their belly. It's a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: little bit sugary, it's a little bit sweet. They feel
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: a bit more connected to you because you've given them
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: something nice. There's that willingness to reciprocate just a bit.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And I believe that if we're going to explore effectively,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the best thing we can do is just state the
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: obvious in an opening statement. I want to talk to
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: you about screens. I feel like we've been having a
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: lot of conflict about it lately, and Kylie you said
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it as well. The kids feel like there's a predetermined
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: outcome that you're going to manipulate them into arriving at.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: So I think it's really important to say to the kids.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure where this conversation will land. We've
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: both got really strong ideas, and I actually want to
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: make sure that we understand each other because I don't
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: think either of us have got the right solution alone.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I think we've got to develop this together. So you're
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: feeding them. You're saying there's a problem, and then you're saying,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: we've got to collaborate because we're just at each other
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel good. That changes the tenor of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the conversation, which means that when you say, so, why
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: don't you tell me what's going on with screens generally
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: and what's working and what's not, and you just explore,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: you explore, explore, explore, and at the end of listening,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the most important thing I think you do is you
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: summarize it. You say, right, so here's what I'm hearing
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: you say. You're saying blah blah blah and blah blah
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: blah and blah blah blah, and the kids don't look
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: at you and go.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: No, you're saying blah blah blah.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the kids don't look at you and go, oh,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: this is such a technique, like seriously, stop it. The
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: kids hear you say that and they go yeah or no,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: that's not what I'm saying at all, And then you
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: get the opportunity to say, well, I completely misheard. Then,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: so what are you actually saying the explore phase is
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: the longest part of this conversation. But once the children
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: know that you're really listening, that you're summarizing, you're not
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: adding to it, you're not starting to go off on
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: your own tangents, you're not rebutting them. You're just listening, summarizing.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: The kids go oh, oh, yeah, okay. And then when
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: they finally said yes, that's exactly it, you look at
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: them and say, okay, now that I've got it, is
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: there anything else? And by asking that question, they know
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: that you're sincerely listening, you're not trying to get to
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: your solution. Once you've done that, you can explain by saying, so,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit worried about this thing, this thing, and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: this thing. I reckon. You want to get it done
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: in ten to twenty seconds. When you explain, so, you
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: might say I'm worried about sleep, I'm worried about relationships,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about keeping you safe online, especially with devices
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: in your bedroom. How do you feel about those things?
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: And as they start to say oh, yeah, you just
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: listen and you say, oh, so what you're saying is
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: this or what you're saying is that? So you summarize again.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Once they're absolutely convinced that you're hearing them and you're
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: not trying to find a solution, that's when you say,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: let me empower you. What solutions do you recommend? Now?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Every now and again they'll say we should just be
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: allowed to do whatever I want. It's my phone. You
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: can say, well, it's my house, and I get where
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you're coming from. You do really want to just make
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: your own decisions. But that doesn't work for me and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it's not working for our family. So can we come
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: up with something else that we can both feel good about.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: The objective here is to problem solve. Sometimes you'll say,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you know what, we're not going to get a solution today.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: We're getting a bit hot into the collar. Maybe we
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: should come back again tomorrow or the day after and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: we'll try again. But you're moving towards solutions that are collaborative.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: What I love about this process is when the kids
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: realize that we're actually wanting to work together with that
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: we're listening and there is every time we go from
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: this real reluctancy to be engaged and to actually cooperate
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to an active participant within a conversation of collaboration to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: come up with and agreed upon outcome that works for
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: both people, and in every case, pretty much every single time,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: it requires a level of give and take sides.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Parents have got to be humble about this.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: On both sides. And when the kids recognize and see
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: that you're willing to give something in return, they don't
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: become putting your hands, but they become so much more
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: willing to be a part of this process. And the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: difference between that and the punitive efforts that we.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the adversarial approach would.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Generally speaking lead to or lean against, just that there's
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: no comparison.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: What we're really trying to do is just get on
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the same page in terms of concerns. Once the kids
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: know that you've heard them, and you can even say,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: are you seeing any differences in yourself and your siblings?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Like what's working here and what's not working? If you
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: had to say that something wasn't working, what would it
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: be And once they say, yeah, I'm probably going to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: be too late, sec bingo, I feel exactly the same way.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: So let's just find some solutions here. We don't have
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to solve all the problems in the world. The one
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: thing that I will promise is that when it comes
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to kids and screens, this is going to be a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: perennial problem, Like it will come back again in two
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: weeks or four weeks or six weeks. It's a constant
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: in our home. It's been a never ending challenge. If
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I could go back, I would just have not given
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: our kids' screens for a much longer period of time.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I just think they get access to them too early
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: and it creates too many problems. So for both our
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: mum of four Anna and for our anonymous parent who
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: has a fifteen year old who had an e safety issue,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the answer is the same. It's the three e's of
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: effective discipline. Explore, explain, empower, lots of empathy, and I
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: think I think that over time you'll find some really
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: helpful solutions there.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: If you've never gone through this process with your teenager,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: don't be surprised if it completely backfires.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Good point on the first or second go. Yeah, it
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: takes practice.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: It does take practice, and it's going to take time
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: for your team to trust that you have their best
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: interest at heart. So if it doesn't work the first time,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: don't give up. Don't give up.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So like learning Espanol like it takes a lot of
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: lessons before you really dial it in and start to
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: get it right, but.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Your desire to continue to show up and work with
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: your teenager will pay off.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: If you would like to submit a tricky question, we
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: answer those tricky questions every Tuesday on the podcast. Email
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: us a voice note podcasts that's podcasts with an s
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au, or go to
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot you, scroll down to the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: podcast section, click the record button and start talking. We
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: love your questions. The Happy Families Podcasts is produced by
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. For more information and resources
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: to make your family happier, check us out at happy
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: families dot com. Donta h