Latest / The Shed Organics Show / #65 - Improving Farms, Farmers & The Earth | Conan Moynihan [Groundshift]

Transcript

#65 - Improving Farms, Farmers & The Earth | Conan Moynihan [Groundshift] · The Shed Organics Show

0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Shed
0:03
Organics Show. My guest today is Conan Moynihan
0:08
from across the Tasman in New Zealand.
0:11
I've got my New Zealand coffee mug out today.
0:14
For those on the video, it's Kiwi.
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I am originally from New Zealand and I have a lot of respect for
0:21
the farmers over there in that community.
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The land in which they tend is beautiful and it is fertile, or
0:28
it can be at least. And Conan is showing multiple
0:32
farmers across the country and ultimately across the world as
0:36
well with his advice and his content, how to build a
0:40
regenerative farm that improves profitability through
0:45
biologically driven farming. He teaches not only the farming
0:50
approach itself, but the mentality, the business behind
0:54
it. He calls himself an Agri
0:55
businessman, which is a really interesting term you'll hear him
0:58
define in the interview. But if you are a farmer, if you
1:03
appreciate where our food comes from and the job that our
1:06
farmers do, then this conversation is certainly going
1:09
to be interesting for you. I've no doubt that you'll get
1:11
lots of value out of it, and it was an absolute pleasure to sit
1:14
down with this gentleman to discuss all the things that
1:17
farming entails and the systemic things that we can do to
1:21
ultimately come to a better place when it comes to our food
1:24
production, our food supply, and ultimately our health in
1:27
general. So let's do it.
1:30
Let's dive straight into the conversation.
1:32
This is Conan Moynihan. Like day-to-day, Then how would
1:53
you describe what it is that you actually do?
1:57
That's a great question. I'm probably a little bit
2:00
unconventional in the farm advising or consulting game.
2:03
I started calling myself an Agri business coach and coaching is
2:08
kind of a new thing in New Zealand in general in terms of
2:11
business coaching, but definitely in agriculture as a
2:13
whole. It's quite a new concept as
2:16
well, but I guess in my role, I am so across the board on
2:20
everything in a farm. I don't really specialize in my
2:23
area. If I did it, it'll probably be
2:25
around. I guess the people mindset, but
2:28
also the soil agronomy, I feel like they're underpinned.
2:32
Both those parts really underpin a farm's performances like the
2:35
actual human side of it and their decision making and then
2:39
also the actual soil and how well that is biologically
2:42
functioning. So for me, I call myself an Agri
2:44
business coach. It's I've been kind of quite
2:46
resistant to the using that term for some, well, probably most of
2:50
my time as I've been working for myself.
2:52
But as I've stepped into this new business, a Co partnership
2:56
with a couple other friends and some support from technic
3:01
company in Australia, we I've kind of stepped into the CEO
3:04
role and with that I've probably had a bit of personal growth.
3:07
So yeah, I'm happy to just say that I'm an Agri business coach
3:11
and people generally ask what does that mean?
3:13
Especially farmers. So yeah, it's my approach is
3:16
just like whole farm system. So if you're playing with one
3:19
part of it, it generally effects something else.
3:22
And kind of think of it as an ecosystem that includes the
3:26
human, the finances, everything. So yeah, helping to coach the
3:30
farmer to get there to themselves, to educate them.
3:33
So ultimately you'd be kind of become not they don't really
3:37
need you anymore. It's the ultimate goal if I've
3:39
done my job so. Yeah, OK, that's really cool.
3:43
I like the idea because it is more than just how you farm.
3:48
It is like literally how you look after yourself as well as a
3:52
farmer mentally, physically, what you know, like the back
3:56
end, smoothing out all of the processes just to make sure that
3:59
your life, your day-to-day is positive and impactful and you
4:04
yourself can actually keep up with the work, let alone before
4:07
you get into the work itself. Tell me about ground shift then,
4:11
man. So you touched on that just
4:13
before, like what is ground shift and what do you, what do
4:16
you guys offer? Well, Ground Shift is actually a
4:19
new farm advisory here in New Zealand.
4:21
We really kicked it off January this year.
4:23
Sweet. And what we focus on is low
4:26
input farming using utilizing biology to essentially Dr. the
4:31
farm system to be more profitable but also really
4:34
resilient. So, and a change in climate, or
4:36
if you have climate stress around drought or flooding on
4:39
the other end of the scale, how can your farm actually bounce
4:42
back from that really quickly or hold on a bit longer if we're
4:45
talking about a drought? So utilizing techniques that are
4:48
driven by biology to actually make the farm performance at its
4:51
best. And normally what that does is
4:54
actually help to improve the profitability as well.
4:56
So it's all very well doing and talking about being
4:59
regenerative, biology driven farms or nature based farms, but
5:03
if you're not being profitable, for me that's not really a
5:06
regenerative system because if it was regenerative, you'd be
5:09
able to make, you know, decent income and then be able to
5:12
invest that into your community as well.
5:14
Cool, well, wicked business idea.
5:17
I think that's it's well needed. So yeah, all the best of luck
5:20
with that seeing as it's still still new.
5:23
I like, I'm a big fan of, you probably know, I'm Graham Sate
5:28
and I've learned a lot from from people like him.
5:31
I've learned a lot from your content as well, the stuff
5:34
you've been putting out, like how did you get into this sort
5:38
of area? And what are The Who are the
5:39
people that are inspiring you to sort of lead down this
5:44
regenerative path? I would say Graham say we
5:49
efficiently call them here between a few of my friends that
5:51
I do some work with Uncle Graham, we refer to him.
5:54
He, he's just like such a wealth of knowledge.
5:57
Yeah. But what really set me on my
5:59
path, I was working as an environmental advisor to
6:02
farmers, like in a big irrigation scheme here.
6:05
And it kept coming back to like, they were getting the
6:07
environmental, like limits were screwing down on them and they
6:10
were, you know, feeling the pressure.
6:12
So I was like, well, how can I help solve them and turn up to
6:15
the farm with some, like, some ideas and what are some other
6:18
farmers in the scheme doing that are working really well?
6:20
So I just started, you know, dipping into that and then you
6:24
keep hearing things around profitability as well across
6:26
like I'm really struggling for profitability.
6:29
So I deep dived into that and I've come from a farming
6:31
background and I want to farm myself one day again.
6:34
So I was like, if I learn this, this is going to really set me
6:37
up for life as well as helping me do my job currently really
6:39
well. Then I read the book for the
6:43
Love of Soil by Nicole Masters and that kind of was like a
6:47
light bulb moment for me that I was just kind of made sense.
6:50
I was like, oh, this, it's almost like a deep knowing that
6:53
I always knew that this is actually the way forward.
6:56
And this is how we can actually create more resilient farms, but
6:58
also have lower environmental impact, but also have
7:01
profitability. And for me, it just kept
7:03
stacking up. So I just, we got got the soil
7:06
bug, as I like to say. And you just, you just learn
7:08
more and more and you keep scratching the surface and you
7:10
just never get to the end of it. And I was, yeah, fortunate when
7:15
I went out on my own after working for the Central Plains
7:17
Irrigation Scheme, first thing, one of the first things I did
7:20
was go and do Graham State's five day course in Australia and
7:24
just loved that and that just Steven fed that a bit more.
7:27
I have done some consulting here for a company called Agronomics
7:31
who work as independent agronomists in Canterbury and
7:34
across the South Island, and they've largely supported me.
7:37
They're all big fans of Graham's work, implemented a lot of that
7:40
to what they do. So I'm very lucky to be mentored
7:43
by Kanan, who owns that company in the team and still do some
7:47
contract work for them as well, which is awesome.
7:49
And then I've also completed Nicole Masters create program,
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which is like the 36 week intensive.
7:54
So that was absolutely life changing and it's really set me
7:58
on the path. And then it's she my business
8:00
partner. He did it with me.
8:02
And then yeah, I've got this connection of just awesome
8:05
humans around the world that I can pull on when I don't know
8:07
the answer to something. So yeah, I'm largely inspired by
8:10
them. And Jerry Bernetti's also been a
8:12
massive, really inspiration for me and I would have loved to
8:16
have met him, but I just like, for me, soul health leads to
8:19
human health and you can't keep them separate.
8:22
So I've been really hammering along on that that for a while
8:27
and just trying to learn as much as I can, but also share that
8:29
knowledge with everyone as well because it's incredible who
8:33
people just don't understand how food has grown and that
8:36
connection that makes to their health, but also their mental
8:38
health as well. Very true, bro.
8:42
I love that like really cool story in terms of like a couple
8:45
of people that Nicole being one of them as well.
8:48
Massive inspiration for me too. Absolutely legendary people, you
8:53
know, like Doctor Elaine recent passed away, like you know, her
8:56
legacy that she's left. It's really, really cool.
8:58
And I like something you said earlier about this deep knowing
9:02
when you realize like that that's kind of the way forward.
9:06
It's it's interesting how many people use that kind of
9:08
reference this deep kind of like that feels so right.
9:13
This is the direction I want to go.
9:15
And like the same as your podcast, which I'd like to touch
9:19
on as well from the soil app. It literally is from the soil
9:22
app for so many things, so many living things.
9:26
So with this podcast, man, tell me about it in terms of why you
9:31
started it, what experiences you've had so far, and what it's
9:37
like being a podcast host for others that might not know.
9:42
Yeah, that's, that's some great questions there.
9:45
I guess the reason why I started it, there's no real great
9:48
question will answer other than my partner and I was sitting
9:52
here doing like a kind of review of the year for at New Year's
9:54
one year. And she's a coach.
9:57
So she was like, she kind of told me you should do a podcast.
9:59
And I just thought, yes, OK, I'll just go and do that, give
10:03
it a crack. And then I got a message from
10:04
actually Jim Elizondo asking me on Instagram if I did
10:09
interviews. And I was like, well, this is
10:11
kind of like a universal sign. I'm definitely going to try
10:13
this. So just dive right into it.
10:16
And then I've been really fortunate that I reckon almost
10:19
like 90% of people I've asked on the podcast, regardless of how
10:24
important they are, have said yes, which has been really
10:27
interesting. I never sort of be that that
10:29
easy to get people on. So I just think of it as kind of
10:33
like what we're having now as just these are these really
10:35
interesting conversations that I was having.
10:37
So why don't I just record them because I'm going to meet these
10:40
people anyway and then someone else will get some value out of
10:43
that. And then as it's kind of it
10:46
started off called the force of nature podcast, which was my old
10:49
business force of nature consulting.
10:51
And then I recognized that after a few conversations with, you
10:54
know, some people in industry, but also farmers that the name
10:57
having nature in it was almost like putting people off because
11:01
they, it's like they close their mind, like it's just going to be
11:03
about nature and region. I'm like, no, actually, I talk
11:06
on a lot, a lot of stuff. So I kind of flipped it up and
11:10
like I said, it's from the soul up that performance.
11:12
And I'm like, really want people to connect with us as human
11:15
beings and how we perform all starts in the soul and
11:17
everything flows through. And that's really important to
11:20
me. So it also gives me like a
11:22
really good range of like, it doesn't pigeonhole me.
11:25
I can ask, can talk to a lot of different people in that space.
11:29
So for me, it's been quite the journey.
11:31
Like I'm definitely a lot better at articulating and asking
11:35
questions now. But The funny thing of being a
11:39
podcaster is that people will ring me up after listening to a
11:42
podcast and then think I'm the expert after I've interviewed
11:45
someone for like just over an hour.
11:47
I don't. I only know about as much as you
11:49
do. That's so funny.
11:51
That's true. Yeah, yeah.
11:52
So then they'll be like, I've got the e-mail and they said
11:55
that I can pass it on to whoever.
11:56
So you can like flip them an e-mail and get in touch.
11:58
So it's almost like you become an expert through association
12:02
with who people I call experts. So yeah, it's been, it's a
12:05
really great journey. And like I'm really starting to
12:08
put a bit more energy behind it and trying to make it a bit more
12:11
successful this year. I'm trying to release a podcast
12:14
every week. And yeah, just put a bit more
12:17
effort into my research going into it and what I actually want
12:20
to talk about as well. Cool, man.
12:23
Yeah, it's, it's certainly something people should go and
12:25
check out. I'll definitely link it for
12:27
everybody to go and listen to. Yeah.
12:30
Having these conversations like it's, it's something that we,
12:34
you know, people like you and I may be drawn to doing these
12:36
things because we have these cool conversations anyway.
12:39
And like this curiosity bug that runs through me of just wanting
12:43
to figure everything out and tap everyone, tap into everyone's
12:46
thinking and brains and knowledge.
12:49
It's funny how you talk about that knowledge thing, like how
12:51
he would just say that 'cause it really is true.
12:53
They. And I'm like, I've literally
12:54
only spoken to them for a bit. Yeah, yeah.
12:58
But another thing you said about how keen people are to be a part
13:02
of it as well. I've also noticed that that the
13:05
majority is certainly keen to, to be involved, whether it's a,
13:12
you know, a chance to just share what people are passionate
13:15
about, which I, you know, if someone asks me to do a
13:18
conversation or a talk or anything like that, I'm straight
13:21
in as much as I can. I'm just like head first.
13:23
So it's, it's a lot of that if we're into the sort of sharing
13:27
and the educating, it's sort of pulls you to want to share your
13:30
ideas in multiple different places now.
13:34
Yeah, I mentioned earlier about content, how I've been learning
13:38
some stuff from you. What's it been like starting to
13:41
push out content online? What's the feedback been like
13:46
for you and what are you trying to achieve with your content?
13:52
Yeah, the content game. I've I've been in the content
13:54
game probably longer than I was podcasting, but only probably a
13:57
year. So not a mass amount of time.
14:00
It was the thing when I started my business myself was kind of
14:04
like a marketing, get my name out there because there's not a
14:07
single other farm consultant in New Zealand that will do social
14:11
media content. So the bar for me is extremely
14:13
low. And I always tell myself like,
14:14
just by posting, I'm winning and it's taken a while.
14:18
And then I, I listened to the higher up podcast and I was kind
14:23
of inspired by how many like actually just view this as a way
14:25
to get better at articulating your message.
14:28
So then I started just posting every day or as much as possible
14:32
just so I could get better at articulating my message and
14:35
seeing what actually landed with people and like just slight
14:38
variations. And you just notice how I
14:41
quickly get better. And if I look at myself six
14:44
months ago, I'll be like, oh man, that's terrible.
14:46
But then I look at my first ever video, I put it up and I'm like,
14:48
that is horrific. But it's also great to look back
14:50
at it. But the content game is, it's an
14:54
interesting one. Like I could follow the trends
14:56
and do stuff, but I just find that now it's all about
15:01
authenticity and like if I just talk about stuff that I like to
15:04
talk about or I want to share, those videos do better.
15:08
And I feel less pressure to come up with content because it's so
15:12
much easier when I'm out on a farm than like if I'm working
15:15
behind my laptop all day, I'll be on a farm and I'll just like
15:18
I can whip out like 5 videos in a row without much thought.
15:21
If I'm sitting at home, I can't do the same thing.
15:24
So true. That's been a good learning
15:27
curve. Response has been like pretty
15:29
interesting. Like I'm seen as the region tall
15:32
guy and I don't even really use the word regenerative in New
15:34
Zealand because it's got big connotations here with farming.
15:38
It's interesting, but I'm seen as that dude and like, I'll go
15:44
to field day now for farmers and like a farmer will come up and
15:46
shake his hand, shake my hand and say I'll see you on TikTok
15:49
or Instagram. Love what you're doing and just
15:52
want to introduce yourself. So that's been like quite a new,
15:56
I guess I'm getting to that level now that my content is
15:58
starting to grow, the social media following.
16:01
And with that, like I've had to probably work on myself or my
16:06
internal ego around like being seen by more people because it's
16:10
easy to like, I just, well, there's so many people seeing
16:13
me. But then if I wanted to like get
16:16
a heap of followers, I could just talk about glyphosate and
16:19
the gene editing bill here in New Zealand and I would have
16:21
heaps of followers because that content goes.
16:24
But I also just don't like, that's not much stuck.
16:26
Like I'll talk about it and every now and then, but I'm
16:30
largely about education, showing who I am and like really
16:35
bringing it back to like people should care about how their food
16:38
is grown, but also farmers should really understand that
16:41
what they're doing has a massive impact on the health of their
16:44
communities as well. And that a lot of them don't
16:47
actually know that there's a lot of negative effects of what
16:49
they're doing because the people that are advising them don't
16:52
know either. So it's been a, it's been a cool
16:54
journey. Like I'm probably like, I'm not
16:58
doing it to get famous. And probably more originally it
17:01
was about marketing, never really got any business out of
17:04
it, which has been ironic. But it's more about just
17:07
cultivating my ability to speak well and I articulate my
17:12
message. And with that is just also being
17:16
comfortable with the growth as me as a human being as well.
17:19
I used to hate public speaking, but now I like kind of dive in.
17:23
Still like feel a bit anxious about it, but I think the
17:27
talking in front of the camera and getting the message clear is
17:31
actually taking a lot away, a lot of the anxiety that I'm not
17:34
going to say exactly what I want to say on the stage. 100% it's
17:39
reps, isn't it? Like, yeah, it's like going in
17:42
the gym, like you, you're going to be terrible at the start.
17:45
And if if most people I think have this fear of standing up in
17:49
front of people and speaking regardless of what it is.
17:53
And then add on top, you know, the fact that you're trying to
17:56
build Curry around it, you want it to go well, there's a lot of
18:01
pressure in terms of standing up there and delivering.
18:04
But that little mindset shift that you said, like how it's not
18:08
going to be perfect. It's just, it is what it is.
18:11
The the more reps you do, the smoother it's going to come out.
18:15
And yeah, I think what drew me to your content initially was
18:21
apart from it being informative because I'm curious about all of
18:24
these things, it was, yeah, it's just what you're, it seems like
18:29
what you're dealing with on a daily basis, you're just then
18:32
relaying to us like on the other end.
18:36
And I think that's easier. It's frictionless to be able to
18:39
create content like that because you're not having to, yes, stage
18:42
something or, or whatever. And there's certain things that
18:46
I'll do because I'll think of it and I can easily push it out.
18:49
But most of the stuff that I'm doing is just repurposing what
18:52
I'm doing each week to try and go, oh, I learnt this or, or I'm
18:56
dealing with this at the moment. So this is what the teaching
18:59
point is from that. And you kind of share it.
19:03
I think the other thing with, you know, like, obviously it is
19:07
marketing. It's, it's then setting you up
19:09
so that people see your face more.
19:11
They, they develop trust with you so that then you know, you,
19:15
you're more likely to more likely to get clients, I
19:19
suppose, rather than it leading straight directly to client from
19:23
a piece of content. You just the trust is built up
19:25
over time. But with so like, let's go to
19:30
your consulting then. So some of the consulting work
19:33
that you're doing is most of the jobs that you're tackling, are
19:38
most of these people aware of wanting to make the switch
19:41
already or on that journey already?
19:44
Or are you trying to? Are you getting in with people
19:47
who are, you know, chemical extractive as Graham Closet and
19:52
trying to bring them onto the biology side?
19:55
Yeah, it's, I think previously like the social media was almost
20:00
like a drafting gate. So I reckon it it kept people
20:03
away that. Didn't align with it and now
20:06
with this new business, it's almost like now that I'm working
20:09
with other people and I'm kind of the CEO of this new business
20:13
and I've got backing from like a tech company.
20:16
These people are coming out of the the woodwork now because
20:19
they're like it's almost like I'm validated now.
20:21
So if I'd stayed on my own, they wouldn't do it.
20:24
Largely like a lot of the work I'm doing is still pretty
20:26
traditional farmers just trying to they realize something's
20:30
wrong or they're coming with an issue like they might the Animal
20:33
House not getting better. They've tried everything else.
20:36
They're like, well, it must has to be the soil.
20:37
So they've kind of deduced that way.
20:40
But a lot of what we're doing with ground shift, we're working
20:42
with people already on that journey.
20:45
And particularly at the moment, Fonterra, which is our biggest
20:48
milk supplier in New Zealand, have now opened up or are
20:52
expanding organic milk supply into the South Island, which is
20:55
a huge opportunity because it's so much more profitable.
20:59
So farmers looking for a support network to transition them
21:03
across that because a lot of our traditional farm consultants
21:06
aren't aware of that. They don't even understand a lot
21:09
of sole basics around biology or recognise biology, which is AI
21:15
make a guess like they're trying to cover so much.
21:17
But it's, it's the fundamental for making a profitable and
21:19
performing farm system. So for me, it's, yeah, I've got
21:24
kind of the full spectrum and a lot of my traditional guys now
21:28
with what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz, fertilizer
21:33
prices are already going up, fuel prices are through the
21:35
roof. I'm paying like almost $2.00
21:37
more a litre for diesel than I was like 2 weeks ago.
21:41
So it's like you have to think differently.
21:44
And I was, I was really feeling confident, a bit more confident
21:46
in myself this year. I actually want to push you guys
21:49
because if we're just doing the same thing and playing around
21:51
with, you know, trace elements, we're not actually changing what
21:56
we're doing. Like we're not saving you money,
21:58
we're not really driving the biology.
21:59
We're not getting the outcome from me that I am desiring.
22:03
So let's actually have a conversation about how
22:06
comfortable you are to start moving things.
22:08
And I think this is kind of this crisis is actually presenting a
22:12
perfect opportunity to go, let's try something different.
22:14
Let's even do it on a small scale, scale up and then when
22:17
things get better, you you don't have to go back that other way
22:21
because we've built that proof. So for me, it's like you've got
22:24
the majority of farmers here would be they don't even
22:28
understand like the how much energy they're utilizing from
22:31
that's coming from outside of the country.
22:35
So I'm hoping this this kind of war in Iran will actually start
22:39
highlighting that. But no one really talks about it
22:41
except few who have been region farmers for a number of years.
22:45
So it's, it's, it's a huge opportunity and there's not a
22:49
lot of support in terms of conventional, traditional
22:52
advisory that'll be able to support them through this.
22:54
So for us as a business, it's great.
22:58
But yeah, it's, I also find like some of the guys who've been on
23:03
the region journey who want to work with me, I'm not, I'm not
23:06
sure what I could actually offer you because you've done it so
23:09
for so long. How can I come in and help you?
23:12
But I think it's just that different set of eyes, a
23:16
different brain, and maybe it's just more the coaching of the
23:18
human to actually figure out what they're trying to do next.
23:21
So true. Yeah, it's an exciting
23:24
opportunity. Like I feel very blessed.
23:25
And like I've had some like I got a message from a dairy
23:29
farming group in Scotland overnight, like keen to like if
23:33
I'm ever over there to come to run a couple of days of them on
23:36
soil and had an all black message me today once coming out
23:39
for a ride along, like to see what I'm doing.
23:42
And I'm like, man, like it's the interest is out there and it's
23:46
growing and I think people are just wanting to connect back to
23:50
really good quality food and how it's grown.
23:52
So I feel like I'm in the prime spot because I've been building
23:55
away and now I've got the probably the confidence and the
23:59
experience to really back up what I'm seeing to and just
24:04
actually step into that role as a bit of a leader here.
24:06
Cool bro, that sounds very exciting.
24:08
I can definitely see that from the outside.
24:11
And like you're right with the timing as well.
24:14
It's just people have the old model is just unsustainable.
24:18
So it's kind of just it's not going to last.
24:21
There will be a point at which there is no return with these
24:25
prices or whatever it is where they're kind of going well, my
24:28
hand is forced. The what really interests me is
24:34
the conversations with the farmers because especially if
24:40
they are stuck in their old ways, you know, in a way of
24:43
putting it not through necessarily fault of their own
24:46
either. I can't I really want to stress
24:48
that because they their hands are tied in many ways to
24:52
continue doing it a certain way. Regenerative AG voices, I will
24:58
use that term can be loud and simplify it and not sorry.
25:07
They overlook how difficult the transition can be.
25:12
So you coming along with your approach to a farmer that has
25:18
like, you know, it's, it's pretty like, look, I'm on the on
25:22
the ropes, so to speak. I've got to try and build some
25:25
profitability. But they're really resistant to
25:28
going full scale into someone else's plan because not many
25:31
people have been doing it for a while.
25:33
It's not proven as well. It is, but it's not as proven.
25:39
I really want to know what that discussion is like.
25:41
And I think something that I'll preface this by saying as well
25:47
without rambling on too much, is that you?
25:51
Hey, guys, really quickly jumping in.
25:52
I just want to remind you, if you are not subscribed to this
25:56
show, that is the number one thing that you can do to show me
25:58
your support. So if you're finding value from
26:01
this conversation and you're deeply engaged, I would love you
26:04
to hit the follow or subscribe button.
26:06
All right, back to the show, as a business person, you know, it
26:10
works as an entirety right? You know, this is a system based
26:15
change. So having a farmer go, yeah, you
26:18
know what, I will put out a compost tea amongst all of my
26:22
other stuff this year to boost the biology, but I'm still going
26:24
to spray glyphosate afterwards or something like you can see
26:28
that there's that's not necessarily going to work.
26:31
It's going to be you're taking with one hand and giving with
26:34
another, so it must be difficult for you to work with that small
26:40
amount of change knowing that it has to be a real system change
26:43
altogether. What's that challenge like for
26:45
you? That that's the ultimate
26:48
challenge you've highlighted right there is that it is a
26:50
system change. So we can a lot of people start
26:53
playing with region or biological practices.
26:57
They're just playing with like little parts of the system.
26:59
And that'll only get you like so far to actually have the
27:03
fundamental regenerative, really high functioning farm that's
27:06
performing really well. That's a systematic change.
27:09
And that all starts in the brain.
27:10
So as Nicole Masters says, like the worst compassion is normally
27:14
between the years. So, but you can't tell a farmer
27:18
like you're doing it wrong. This is how you do it.
27:21
They need to have that realisation themselves.
27:23
So you need to get them some small ones or some quick ones
27:26
and then start stacking that evidence for themselves to the
27:29
point where they almost think that they have come up with the
27:32
idea of themselves and then that empowers them and then they wear
27:36
that as their badge of honor. And then that.
27:38
I guess the biggest problem here is around like the social
27:41
pressure. So tall poppy syndrome pretty
27:43
big in New Zealand and Australia, but in agriculture it
27:46
would be almost five times as worse.
27:48
So if you start doing something outside of that in your
27:51
community, you get ostracized to be brought back into line.
27:55
And then if you keep doing that, you have to kind of find a new
27:58
group of friends to hang out with.
27:59
So that is like one of the biggest problems is around that
28:03
social pressure. But then how do you get farmers
28:07
to understand that it is a systematic change and everything
28:11
in terms of our agriculture and the science and the universities
28:16
And the advisory that is given here does not understand that
28:20
and is actively trying to make sure that they don't go that way
28:24
because they'll lose sales sometimes, you know, sometimes
28:29
they will gain the same amount of sales, they'll just utilize
28:31
it better. But there's also this really key
28:33
thing about like, you know, you've got to earn the right.
28:37
So a lot of people when they get in start going the system way,
28:40
they will automatically go, I can't cultivate or I can't use
28:44
chemicals because that's not regenerative.
28:46
But I'm like, well actually if that paddock is in such a bad
28:49
way and you just tickle it a little bit and it comes up half
28:53
assed, the biology's not being fed because the plants aren't
28:56
doing that well. Wouldn't it be better just to
28:58
cultivate it, set it up once and then get it on its journey and
29:02
make sure that you get a really good set of whatever diverse
29:05
species crop you've got on there and you're just pumping heaps of
29:08
carbon into the soil through the liquid carbon pathway.
29:10
Is that not a better outcome in the long run because you've
29:13
actually reset that paddock and set it on its on the journey
29:17
rather than I need to stick to these principles because if I
29:20
don't I'm not regenerative. So there's a bit of like 2 ends
29:22
of the scale there and the cultivation one's always there.
29:26
But then like earning, you're right.
29:27
Like if you are going to use something like glyphosate, you
29:30
can actually use like a fulvic acid and use like 1/4 of the
29:34
amount. So you're actually earning that
29:36
right by having less of an impact on the absorb biology.
29:39
But it doesn't mean you go and use it every year.
29:41
So it's true. It's one of those ones that you
29:44
know you get 2 ends of the scale.
29:47
Yeah, that dogmatic approach. I was actually speaking like to
29:51
Tad Hussey of Kiss Organics on it, which just dropped actually.
29:56
And we were talking about this bias that comes with certain
30:00
labels or, you know, approaches. And it's just like, and we were
30:05
talking about the no till approach, basically that tilling
30:07
is bad and they think that all tilling is bad.
30:11
And it's like, not necessarily. It's a tool to use.
30:14
And it's like it may, as you say, be a really good and
30:17
helpful way of kick starting that product to get going to be
30:20
much more productive. The biology can be quite
30:23
resilient and you can put it back in.
30:25
So it's like taking that once you know it's got to be done one
30:30
way, and then applying that to everything will mean that it's a
30:34
a lot slower to get to that point of being regenerative.
30:38
Yeah, I think that's a really good point is the dogmatic thing
30:42
is that I'm a regen farmer. I am a biodynamic farmer.
30:45
It's like, let's stop putting labels on it ourselves.
30:47
Like what works in my specific context to actually get my farm
30:50
regenerating and getting me on that journey.
30:53
I should let's drop all the labels.
30:55
Let's just figure out what works.
30:56
Let's talk to each other. Who cares if they're organic or
30:59
regional professional? Like we've all got something to
31:01
learn from each other because everyone's doing something
31:03
pretty cool that's valuable to learn from.
31:05
Yeah, it's what's going to grow the best produce at the end of
31:09
the day for both the farmer and the consumer.
31:13
And it's like it's the same goal for everybody.
31:15
So it's just silly that everyone's going at it about
31:19
like fighting about it. So then when you go to a farm
31:25
and you're having a look around, tell me about your process.
31:29
So I know typically someone you mentioned someone will come to
31:34
you with a problem of some sort, right?
31:36
So that's, that gives you a bit of direction in terms of where
31:39
you're going to go with your problem solving.
31:42
But say it's like a soil issue. And in general, whereabouts are
31:49
you going to start in terms of trying to track down what the
31:53
actual problem is? Yeah, I, I guess the real
31:56
important point here is that you can go to a farm thinking you,
32:01
well, the farmer's telling you that it's this problem, but you
32:03
might take two or three visits to actually find out what the
32:05
real problem is because they haven't given you all the
32:07
information or don't think it was relevant.
32:09
So that's, that's a really hard thing to overcome from.
32:13
But what we are largely doing with ground shifters, we're
32:16
doing a whole farm assessment. So we're doing soil, plant
32:18
health, livestock nutrition, grazing management, goals of the
32:22
farmer, financials, trying to pull it all together because we
32:24
recognise it's all part of the wider ecosystem and trying to
32:28
benchmark that'll create a, you know, what are they, where are
32:32
they sitting currently and what is the low hanging fruit?
32:34
So yeah, by doing this, you're testing the soil, you're testing
32:38
for totals. This is available as carbon,
32:41
nitrogen ratios, all sorts of things, your trace elements, but
32:45
also understanding through like the visual assessment.
32:47
So like doing infiltration rings, saw visual assessments,
32:51
Clover nodulations, worms and doing that with the farmer.
32:54
So you're actually asking questions out in the paddock
32:56
while you're going around because you can sit across the
32:58
table, but until you're actually out in the farm, you might learn
33:01
a lot more during that situation.
33:03
And then, you know, testing the plant, how's that nutrient
33:05
flowing through the plants, understanding the animal health
33:08
issues that they've been having and this, you know, trying to
33:12
build as much of A picture from all the data they've already got
33:15
and then compiling some really easy low hanging fruit.
33:18
And then prioritizing those based on what their goals are,
33:21
what their time is so that she can do things in the right
33:25
order. Because you can't give a farmer
33:29
6 things to work on. You're better off giving them
33:31
one thing that they can focus on and be like, Kate, you go away
33:34
and work on that. Call me when you need some
33:36
clarification. I'll see you in a couple of
33:38
months and then let's see how it's gone.
33:40
Do we need to change some things and then go from there where if
33:44
it's, you know, trialling different forms of calcium to
33:47
figure out what's going to work in a situation, let's do it on a
33:50
small plot, test it to see if it's working.
33:52
And then we do it at scale rather than be like, oh, that's
33:54
just Chuck lime everywhere and that'll be sweet.
33:57
Actually that might not be the best result.
33:59
So yeah, it's there's different approaches to it depending on
34:04
what the person needs. But largely we're trying with
34:06
ground shift to do the whole system approach.
34:08
I still got my contracting work that I do through agronomics as
34:11
well. So that's more just saw grazing
34:14
management and plant stuff essentially.
34:17
So do it's kind of like your usual agronomy program saw test
34:22
every year, some plants checking throughout the season how
34:25
everything's flowing, how the cows are doing, the livestock
34:28
are doing, how the farmer's feeling about it.
34:30
Do we need to adapt the fertilizer program based on what
34:33
the climate's doing, what we're actually seeing out in the
34:36
field, Always looking basically at what's happening in the soil,
34:40
but also, you know, utilizing bricks, pH meter, set meters,
34:44
all sorts of stuff just to try and build a full picture of what
34:47
could be happening. And then just understanding how
34:50
that flows throughout the season because we see that change
34:52
throughout the season as well. Yeah, that's got me really
34:56
thinking because yeah, like coming to a farm, there's so
35:01
many variables to it. For one, the changes throughout
35:05
the seasons would be really interesting.
35:07
The differences between paddocks would also be really interesting
35:11
'cause there'd be different microclimates or different soil
35:15
types even across a farm, depending on whereabouts it is.
35:19
And then the other thing is like, I've thought about this as
35:25
well, because you might actually be someone interesting to ask is
35:28
I've seen the use of things like drones coming in and I suppose
35:35
artificial intelligence as well, whereby you can sort of have all
35:40
these numbers, plug them in and then they can go and survey the
35:43
area and tell you all of this data.
35:46
And it seems like it can really help farmers and, and sort of
35:51
bring together some of this information.
35:54
But a lot of me, and I'm trying not to be dogmatic about it, but
35:57
a lot of me is like, we learn the land by looking at it and
36:02
watching it and how it goes over time and all of that sort of
36:05
stuff. And we shouldn't be so tied up
36:07
in numbers and data and, and technology.
36:10
But this is my bias. So I, I want to ask you as
36:14
somebody who is on farms a lot, how do you see maybe technology
36:20
or stuff like this coming in to help you guys and farmers and
36:25
whether like where's the line basically is my question.
36:29
Yeah, No, great question. Actually, I love getting this
36:32
one because I'm not one of those people who goes technology will
36:35
solve everything because it's just another silver bullet to
36:38
fix the silver bullets that we've already just created and
36:40
just continue that cycle. But it does have its place.
36:44
Ultimately, it should enhance our decision making, but it
36:47
should not be a fall back. So for me, observation is one of
36:52
those things that has been lost and farmers, they're nowhere
36:55
near as good as they used to be. But then I see the benefits of
37:01
like using a drone to go and see what the partial measurement is.
37:05
So but then you still have to check that that's correct.
37:08
So I've got farmers that use halter, so the cow collars, but
37:12
they also tell you how much grass is in there and they say
37:15
that it actively isn't the same as what's in the paddock, so
37:17
they have to keep recalibrating it.
37:18
So that will get better over time.
37:20
And some people have views that the cow collars are bad.
37:24
Yes, they're bad for bad farmers.
37:26
They'll make a lazy and bad farmer worse.
37:28
If you're a good farmer, you will utilize it.
37:30
One of my guys has gone to like multi use multiple shifts
37:35
everyday. Cows are just always sitting
37:37
down happy and full, like great for the soil.
37:40
Like he's done everything instinctly from like his own
37:44
observations of being out in the paddock with them all the time
37:47
because he's actually given some more time because he's not
37:48
setting up break fences and the same for his staff.
37:52
So he's got a benefit out of it. Then I know another dairy farmer
37:55
who put it on his. His staff stopped looking at the
38:00
cows to see if they were lame. They'll wait till they get a
38:02
notification on their phone. So even when they're walking
38:04
into the shed to be milk, they're not picking them up.
38:07
So he's like, that's gone because it's made my stuff lazy
38:10
and then not looking after my animals.
38:12
They're not checking the observing way less.
38:15
So it's got its role and like I have like our tech partners, AI
38:21
people, but that is to essentially pull all that data
38:23
that we do have and make it usable for the farmer.
38:26
If that's not the in goal, then it's no use to me.
38:29
I don't want to be looking at spreadsheets.
38:30
I don't want to be looking at data.
38:32
I want to be in the field talking to my farmer about like
38:35
solving the next issue for them or like what's what's actually
38:38
really pressing for them. I want to spend that time
38:40
talking and actually problem solving rather than sitting
38:42
behind my laptop. That's just me.
38:44
It's pretty much everyone who works with farmers doesn't want
38:46
to be stuck behind a laptop. So how do we utilise it in that
38:50
sense for the good for both the farmer and those supporting
38:54
them, but also not becoming reliant on it.
38:56
And I think like I just keep hammering home observation is
39:00
like your number one thing on a farm.
39:03
Like what are your cows telling you?
39:05
What are your sheep telling you? What's the grass doing?
39:08
Like what's the seasons doing? What are the patterns that
39:10
you're noticing what's happening under the soil?
39:12
Like a lot of farmers don't even dig a hole, which is incredible.
39:17
I'm like, well, how do you know what's going on?
39:19
And then the people advising you don't dig a hole or spin bugger
39:22
all time on farm, but making these massive financial advice
39:28
or decisions for you. And they're not even like taking
39:31
the time to observe or listen to what you are seeing as well.
39:34
So for me, it's like, I'm really worried about that being lost on
39:38
the next generation because if this current generation isn't
39:41
very good at the observation, then that's not going to get
39:44
passed down. So how do we teach people that
39:46
this is a really key thing? And that's kind of where the
39:49
social media has come in is like, actually here's some
39:51
couple of things to look for out in your paddocks.
39:54
Like, I'll do a whole sole health workshop with farmers and
39:58
they might. They will, only I'll try to jam
40:00
as much value on it. Probably need to stop doing
40:02
that. But it's more about they just
40:05
take one thing away. And it's like nodules on Clover
40:08
have different colours depending on whether they're working or
40:10
not. Yeah.
40:11
And they didn't know that. And you just kind of expect that
40:14
the level of knowledge around soils and plant health is higher
40:17
than it is, and it actually isn't.
40:19
And that's an indictment on our universities, but also just the
40:23
general knowledge of the industry.
40:24
We should be talking about these really basic things.
40:26
We should be talking about how you build solid carbon, like
40:29
what's the liquid carbon pathway?
40:30
A lot of people don't know that what that is.
40:32
And it's the most important thing in farming.
40:35
Yeah, in my opinion, no. Like it literally is if that if
40:39
that's disrupted, it doesn't happen.
40:43
Yeah, exactly right, man. And like you mentioned that the
40:47
mindset as well, like it seems like people are these farmers
40:50
are on a lot of land, but they're not very connected to it
40:53
and they're not able to read the simple messages and stuff.
40:59
And, and I think when you're cultivating, maybe cultivating
41:03
is not the word when when you're a steward of land, you're
41:06
working with it And farmers, that's probably one of the most
41:10
important things to understand is that you should be working
41:13
with the natural laws and principles to a certain extent
41:16
to to help you. Otherwise, you're swimming
41:18
upstream and the mindset shift or like you mentioned earlier
41:27
about it being, you know, the mindset of the farmer as well.
41:29
What are some of the things then that you're noticing in farmers
41:33
that's got to change or is a challenge for you or you're
41:37
noticing, Hey, like this is pretty common.
41:40
You mentioned like the loss of of being able to read the stock
41:44
and and all of this kind of thing, maybe treating it more
41:48
like a commodity or resource rather than something that
41:53
they're openly working with. See commonly in terms of
41:56
mindsets and thinking patterns, this is.
42:00
A great question, as I largely believe it's not the farmer's
42:03
fault, it's the industry. Everything around them is
42:08
teaching them that they don't need to know these things,
42:11
they're unimportant, and that you just need to buy this off me
42:14
or this will solve all your problems.
42:16
They're completely overwhelmed with decisions because you have
42:20
to do so much as a farmer, like all the different hats you have
42:23
to wear, you're an accountant, you're a farmer, you're animal
42:27
husband, you're a vet, you're driving tractors, you're doing
42:30
all sorts of stuff and you're if you're selling your own stuff,
42:32
you're a marketer and supplier as well.
42:35
So like you're just completely overwhelmed and the support and
42:39
general knowledge around just tools to how to navigate that as
42:43
a farmer is non existent and the whole system around them doesn't
42:50
actually realise what they're doing either.
42:53
I think it's largely we've gotten to this point now and
42:56
I'm, I am talking generally about New Zealand, but I've
42:59
travelled the world and I've had exposure to people from all
43:02
around the world. In terms of farm consultants and
43:04
coaches. The same problems are everywhere
43:07
and they're largely driven by the industry that is pretty much
43:12
pretty extractive. But when farmers are going the
43:15
other way from that, they get ostracized because it's, you
43:18
were kind of outside of the herd.
43:20
So then the herd mentality is pulling people back in and the
43:22
farmers don't realise they're doing that.
43:25
And if you ask this farmer, they believe they're stewards of the
43:27
land and they're doing their best for it because that's what
43:30
people are telling them that they're doing.
43:31
Oh, you're doing their best. You can you, you're nailing it,
43:33
mate. Like keep putting on, keep
43:35
putting on the squat for sight. That's that doesn't get into the
43:37
waterways. It doesn't kill morphology.
43:39
It doesn't get into your stomach or causes cancer.
43:42
Don't worry about the Parkinson's as well.
43:43
Like there's all these different things that fundamentally being
43:46
proven, but farmers are the ones standing up going I need this,
43:50
if I don't have this, we won't be able to grow food.
43:52
Fundamentally untrue. And it's all because the support
43:56
networks and the whole industry is driven at making them believe
44:00
they need all these external inputs, when actually largely
44:03
they'll produce better quality food that satiates humanity,
44:06
creates less health issues and serves the rural communities.
44:09
And they'll be able to employ more people and largely have a
44:12
better lifestyle because they're not pushing their systems past
44:14
the ecological limit, which is also the most profitable limit
44:18
on their farm too. So it's, it's largely an
44:21
industry problem. And I think there's a lot of
44:24
people in the industry who just don't actually know what they're
44:26
advising has such a negative effect because the marketing
44:30
spin on a lot of this stuff is just incredible.
44:34
And like, I felt I didn't know about it when I was farming
44:36
myself, but I just knew certain things weren't right.
44:41
But you know, you're largely just kind of when you're in the
44:43
weeds and that's you kind of all those people that you surround
44:46
yourself with, they're all influencing you.
44:48
It's like, what are you the the sum of the five people you spend
44:51
much your time with? So if they're all telling you
44:53
that this is the way and like all that other stuff is stupid
44:55
and you don't need to worry about that, then that's largely
45:00
what you're going to do until you have some sort of moment
45:02
that breaks you out of it. And unfortunately for most
45:04
farmers, that is something serious like financials, health,
45:09
climate or like mass death of like livestock, something that
45:14
actually has to universally shape them out of what they're
45:17
doing and then realize, holy hell, something's not right
45:20
here. And I can't keep doing it this
45:22
way. And unfortunately, we have to
45:24
keep getting to that crisis point before we can change
45:27
people. And I think as a society at the
45:31
moment, we're kind of having that a little bit and it's
45:33
starting to, the farmers are starting to feel that pressure
45:35
because people are telling them like, you can't keep doing this.
45:38
And the farmers going, what do you mean?
45:40
I'm doing the best I can. Like I'm just trying to keep my
45:41
head above ground. And a lot of their financial
45:44
institutions are also the problem as well because they
45:47
don't understand that the farms are more profitable and more
45:49
resilient to a climate change if they actually farm more
45:53
biologically, but they just don't have the data.
45:55
So everything's stacking against them.
45:57
But I talk to banks here and they're like, if you've got the
45:59
data and you can show it, we will give those farmers lower
46:02
mortgage rates. We will start championing that
46:05
sort of farming. But because we don't know that
46:07
and it hasn't been proved, then it's very hard for them to
46:12
support. But a large part of what I want
46:13
to do this year is actually pull together a hell of a lot of New
46:16
Zealand based case studies. So that that data, well, that
46:19
the fact that it's not possible when you go broke is actually
46:23
narrative has dies once and for all because that's a huge
46:26
barrier to people to adopt doing this.
46:29
Yeah, man. It's such a multi layered
46:33
systemic problem as you pointed out.
46:37
OK, really quickly, just one more thing.
46:39
I have just launched an exciting new group.
46:43
Jordan's Soil Society is a place where you can come and learn
46:46
more about the soil beneath your feet.
46:49
We're going in depth into what makes living soil, what makes
46:53
good healthy plants, and ultimately what leads to better
46:57
health for us as individuals. So if you want to learn more
47:00
about joining my soil Society, hit the link at the top of the
47:03
description below and you can come and find out.
47:05
All right, thanks for listening back to the show and it's
47:10
hopefully becoming widely more recognized how important farmers
47:14
are. I've enjoyed seeing what I would
47:18
consider a slight rise in popularity of farming, it seems
47:23
with various kind of maybe celebrities getting into certain
47:28
things or maybe just the social media itself being spreading
47:32
awareness. We've got farmers themselves
47:34
jumping on social media. It's a fairly isolated existence
47:37
out in the paddocks. And as you mentioned, if you've
47:41
got five other farmers around you or your consultant and
47:44
whatever and they're all telling you one thing, you haven't got
47:47
the time or the energy to go and figure out outside of that, do
47:52
you? So it's no wonder that they're
47:56
there. There's no.
47:57
Incentive for them to. Go out of that and it is
48:00
unfortunate that it has to be rock bottom.
48:01
That's the foundation we build up from.
48:06
Yeah. So then moving forward, man,
48:10
looking ahead, like I know you mentioned just then about having
48:14
something this year that you really want to do, like just
48:18
providing more data and that kind of thing.
48:20
But what's like a pressing thing that's on your mind at the
48:24
moment that you're really thinking about?
48:28
Could be positive, could be negative, could be something
48:30
that's inspiring you, something that you're really sort of
48:32
trying to figure out. What's top of mind for you at
48:36
the moment. I'm a.
48:39
Very busy, mind, so there's a lot, yeah.
48:43
I can relate and kind of restarting a.
48:46
Business or starting a new business almost feels like from
48:49
scratch. So it feels like I've got a lot
48:51
of just overhanging admin stuff that I need to tidy up there.
48:56
For me, it is, I think stepping into my own power a bit more
49:00
this year and actually confidently sharing this
49:03
message. And I think a part, a key part
49:06
of that is if I have that data in those case studies and I can
49:09
just point to them and like you said, this is not here you go.
49:14
He's 20 farmers here in this region doing it and they're all
49:17
happy to share. And just it just breaks down
49:20
that narrative from the industry as well that it's not possible.
49:23
And that's what I also hear from farmers like show me case
49:26
studies, show me the dollars. I'm like, OK, I'll go find them.
49:31
So if I can make that a centralized thing, that'd be
49:33
pretty cool. But also just this connection
49:37
back to like human health and soil house.
49:41
Why do we have systems with food?
49:45
You know, our food system and our health systems are
49:47
completely separate And how do we get, you know, the person at
49:52
the supermarket to actually understand that if you're paying
49:55
for better quality food, you're actually you're not having to
49:58
pay the doctor later on. And if you actually pay that
50:01
farmer directly, you actually voting for that food system in
50:05
the way in which they grow. So we need people to actually
50:08
encourage to do that and why it matters.
50:12
And people complain about, oh, it costs more, but I might, but
50:15
the cost is actually nothing in the long run.
50:18
And generally, if you actually do have a proper look, you will
50:21
find cost comparative stuff out there.
50:24
And if we largely keep voting for that, then we'd break down
50:27
like the supermarket duopoly that we've got here in New
50:29
Zealand. We've got a really stronghold
50:32
over what it's going on. I know it's the same in
50:35
Australia, but I like, I just think we as human beings have
50:39
much more power when we group together and we get united on
50:43
things. And problem at the moment is
50:45
everyone is so wound up about everything and just wants to
50:49
fight everyone at every little topic.
50:51
And I'm like, man, we can't even have just a normal conversation
50:55
where people don't agree without people being called woke or
50:57
something ridiculous on the other side.
50:59
Like get over it. We're all trying to get the same
51:01
thing out of life and we're here for such a short time.
51:04
So I'm just so passionate about that, the food system and
51:10
creating healthy human beings and just educating on that
51:13
front, but also helping the farmers because I believe that
51:17
if you're producing better quality food, you should get
51:19
paid for it. And that will largely drive a
51:22
massive systemic change. And there's people like Dan
51:24
Kittridge and whatnot. It's Pablo Grigorini here in
51:27
Christchurch. He, they're all doing great work
51:30
in this space, showing that, you know, regenerative and
51:32
biological systems actually produce such healthier food and
51:35
you don't actually need to eat as much as well because it's
51:38
associated quicker. So yeah, there's some for me,
51:42
there's like a massive amount of opportunity.
51:45
And I see as an industry here in New Zealand, we don't even
51:48
capture the value of the way in which we grow things, but also
51:51
the story behind it. And our Readmate sector here is
51:55
like a massive, I guess, read hearing of that they don't do
52:00
tell the story well. So there's a systemic change
52:02
that's going to come just as generations flow out.
52:06
And how can we influence that next generation to show that
52:10
there's a different way of doing things?
52:12
They don't have to work themselves to death in these
52:14
systems either, like largely doing less for a lot of these
52:17
people or actually make them more money, which is inherently
52:20
sounds ridiculous. But yeah.
52:24
How do we get people to realise that we want to support our
52:27
local farmers? And how do we continue to grow
52:29
local food systems so when things like, you know, if we ran
52:33
out of diesel, people can still feed each other in the community
52:35
and things don't go Mad Max on us.
52:37
So there's just, there's a lot for me that's really pressing.
52:42
But for me, it's really probably stepping into my own power and
52:45
articulating, like, what the opportunities are out there
52:47
rather than focusing on all the negative stuff.
52:49
Like there's so much opportunity and a lot of it's just small
52:53
system shifts that we can all do as human beings individually.
52:56
And that, collectively, is a massive outcome.
53:16
And there it is, ladies and gentlemen, what an.
53:19
Awesome guy Conan is, and a knowledgeable man.
53:22
Because I think what's missing, as we've touched on in this, is
53:28
a few voices that can calmly and collectively display data and
53:34
help transition farmers into a new way of thinking and a new
53:39
way of operating. It takes a special kind of
53:42
individual, I think, to go to someone, as I mentioned in this,
53:46
and towards the end, they're asking the question how
53:48
difficult it is to go and talk to a farmer that has done
53:51
something there the same way their whole life and if not for
53:55
generations before them. It's difficult to go there and
53:59
have these conversations. And it takes a special kind of
54:01
person that understands multiple different aspects of agronomy
54:06
itself, running a business as a farm, farming, what it means to
54:11
steward land, what it means to work with natural laws and
54:15
principles. And yes, it takes somebody that
54:19
can harness all of those things to be able to calmly welcome
54:24
somebody in. And I think kind of mentioned it
54:26
in the conversation. You can't push people over the
54:29
edge. You have to encourage them to
54:32
come and step through the door, and I think that's a really
54:36
delicate, fine line to walk. It really impressed me.
54:39
Today's conversation of all the things that Conan has to offer.
54:42
And if you were impressed and you were inspired, please
54:46
connect with Conan in the links in the description below.
54:49
The show notes have everything that you need for each guest.
54:52
You just have to go down and click those links and you can
54:54
discover each guest and what they have to offer and all of
54:58
the different channels in which they appear.
55:00
So if you enjoyed today's episode, I would of course be so
55:04
grateful for some kind of review on the platform that you're
55:07
listening to. Ultimately, subscribing does so
55:10
much for this podcast, helping more people find it.
55:13
So hit the follow or the subscribe button.
55:16
But otherwise, thank you. I appreciate you being here
55:18
nonetheless. And we'll see you on the next
55:21
episode next week. Bye for now.