Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Dr. Robert Parker of Flinders University talks hospital staffing issues in the Territory on 360 with Katie Woolf

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Dr. Robert Parker of Flinders University talks hospital staffing issues in the Territory on 360 with Katie Woolf · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, we have been speaking for a considerable amount of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: time on this show about the concerns within our health
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: system and the shortage of staff. Now, last week Caath Hatcher,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the head of the Nursing and Midwiff Reunion, joined us
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: on the show and revealed that we need to bring
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: up to one hundred staff from overseas in an effort
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to fill some of those shortages. Now joining me on
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the show to talk more about this and the situation
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: with the health system is the head of the Australian
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Medical Association's Northern Territory branch, doctor Robert Parker. Good morning
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to you morning now, Dr Parker. Firstly, are you able
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to give us a bit of an update as to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: how the hospital is tracking this morning after I'm assuming
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: what probably what's a busy weekend.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: No, unfortunately I haven't been in contact leave at the moment.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: No, that's all right. Well, we will suss that out
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: and see if we can find out how things are going,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Dr Parker. We know that there's quite a bit going
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: on though when we do talk about our health system.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It was revealed that a letter was said to well
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: sent out by nt Health on Friday afternoon by Royal
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Darwin and Palmeston Hospitals Medical Services Acting Deputy Director, who
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: said that the resignation of three junior doctors could have
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a serious impact on patient safety. A twelve months ban
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: from employment with nt Health will now apply to any
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: doctor who resigns before the end of their contract. Do
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: you know why exactly this letter had to be issued, Well, again,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: it was.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: The optics skadium. I mean, my understanding is that a
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: number of doctors had resigned and then then opted for
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: locum contracts with the health service, which or attempted to
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: get locum contracts with the health service, which is not
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: a good thing. I mean it basically puts so doctors
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: leaving normal roster systems and not doing the overtime and
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: whatever puts much more pressure on their colleagues. And so
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: it was a general policy that if you're on a
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: normal contract which has all the obligations of working rosters
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: and whatever, than the system wouldn't support you being on
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: a being on a local contract. And that my understanding,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: was the reason for the letter. It was pretty clunky
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: in the way it was developed and the optics of it, and.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: What was the reaction from doctors to the letter well again, I.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Paid tribute to the all the heroes and their health
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: system and doctors, nurses, ots, physios, cleaners, quok kitchen staff
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: were working really above and beyond their normal their normal
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: expectations at the moment and the current pressure on the
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: health system in the in the level of fours and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: code yellows. But you know, speaking for the doctors particularly,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of when you've got reduced medical workforce
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: people leaving, there's much more pressure on the existing medical
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: workforce to fill rosters and vacancies and whatever. So it
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: does put an extra lot of pressure on junior medical
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: staff to keep the system running.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And doctor Parker, are our doctors concerned for their safety
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: because they are being put under that extra share at work?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Well, CAD there's been a regular theme now in terms
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: of safe working hours. It's recognized if you do work
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: a sixteen hour shift, your body and mind at the
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: end of the shift is not in the same condition
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: was at the beginning, so you know, presumably there's fatigue
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: and has an effect on the work you do, and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: also you know in terms of your personal and also
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: potentially the patience you're looking after, so that you know
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the recent industrial would have been very clear there has
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: to be a safe working hours issue and certainly sixteen
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: hour shifts and added shifts go beyond the safe working
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: ours agenda, and so are.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Our doctors regularly completing sixteen hour shifts and longer?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I would expect that you're unfortunately with the current situation,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: particularly gritting, when you're getting vacancies and whatever people are
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: having to fill in, and.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: So presumably then, like you've said, you know, there has
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: been studies et cetera that have found that that's not
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: the you know, the ideal way for our doctors to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: be working. So presumingly it is having an impact on them, well.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: No doubt, no doubt. And it's not good at all
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: for the young doctors having that sort of pressure all
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the time. No, it's not good at all.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Now, we spoke obviously to Kath Hatcher, the head of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the Nursing and We're Free Union, just last week about
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the lack of nursing stuff and the need to bring
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: a nursing stuff from overseas. From your perspective, is this
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: something that we need to do quite soon?
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I've been aware of the issues of
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: mental health nursing since the early two thousands. I attended
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: a dinner in the early two thousands where there were
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: sixty nurses in the room and there was one only
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: one under thirty years old in that room. So I predicted,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, we're going to have real problems
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: in about fifteen years time, which we are. What happened
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: before COVID was we were able to compensate to a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: degree with all the people retiring and whatever the We're
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: able to basically import nursing staff from Ireland, New Zealand, India, Africa.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: But of course COVID and all the quarantine issues and
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: overseas trouble restricts places significant limits on the available nurses
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you're able to get to compensate for our lack of
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: locally trained nurses.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: And so at this point in time, there is obviously
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: a shortage that we are seeing a shortage of nursing staff.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: From what cath Hatcher had said, she realistically said, between
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: fifty to one hundred is what would be required. I mean,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: how quickly do you think that we need to try
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to get some of these staff across and operational within NT.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Health within them now? We need them, you know, That's
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: why I so we probably need to if we can
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: get mango pickers over here to pick mango, which is
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: excellent of course for the farmers. We need a similar
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: bubble to get nursing staff from trained nursing staff, you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: who are properly qualified and credentials here as soon as possible.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: How critical is it if you know, if this doesn't
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: happen quickly, are we're going to continue to see code
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: yellows called? Are we going to continue to see you know,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: people aren't able to get into to see medical professionals?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: What will be the ramification if we don't make this happen.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: It's almost inevitable, Katie, Unfortunately, just you know, there's only
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: a certain reserve within the system. But if we can't
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: keep supporting the staff and supporting staff vacancies, it'll just
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: add a significant pressure of the system.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Well, rob do we need to do the same for
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: our medical professionals? I doctors as well? Are we seeing
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: a shortage of our doctors as well? At this point?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: My understanding is that you know, obviously there some doctors
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: are seeing that it's better to be a loco than
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: there is to be a regular staff because of the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: pressure in the system. And the advantages that go with
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: being a loco in that sort of situation. So obviously
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: there is a need for more for more doctors along,
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: you know, to help deal with the current pressures on
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the health system.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: How many more doctors do you think we need?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Katie, I can't give you an actual number,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: but we need more.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I know that. One of the things that we hear
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: about very often on this show is the delays to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: elective surgeries and longer wait times to see specialists. Are
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: these white times? You know, these types of things sort
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: of decide effect of there being a lack of surgeons
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: and specialists available.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Well, no, the surgeons are available, but there are theater
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Apparently you need to get nurses as well round theaters,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: and there's a problem with a gather staff in theater
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: nurses at the moment, the problem isn't I mean, one
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: of our AMA Council members mentioned the patient had his
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: elective surgery canceled I think four or five times. So
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the poor guy, you know, he is told there's a
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: to prepare for surgery, turns up canceled again in a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks, told is happening, canceled and the effect
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: on you know, apart from the effect on his medical condition,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: which you know, and again we've been very clear that
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: delaying surgery can lead to potentially a lot more problems
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: later on when those conditions become a lot more problematic,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: apart from the chronic pain and disability that people have
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: with not having the surgical conditions addressed early leads to
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: a more pressure on the system with much more complex issues,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you know, people with much more complex issues arising in
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: the system because they haven't had treatment early. So and
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: that's added to the frustration obviously, if someone having preparing
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: for surgery four times and then having it canceled, and
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: the anger and frustration of dealing with us this system.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Goodness me. So is that something that's happened recently, doctor Parker?
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And this is brought up at our last
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: council meeting about this patient, you know, and I presume
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: he's just one of many ye who've had repeated cancelations
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: of surgery.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: How big a worry is it really when you talk
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: about that for Territorians who are waiting to have those surgeries.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I know that, you know, for some of us listening,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: we might think, oh, it's an elective surgery. You're not
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: going to you know, you're not going to end up
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: chronically on well if you don't get that elective surgery.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: But the reality is, like you've said, it is causing
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on the individual, but I assume
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that in the long run it could potentially cause issues
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: for us within our health system as well.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. For example, you know, the electro surgery
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: includes colaliscos goes which check for early cancers or pre
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: canceer's conditions, and if they're not done, it can develop
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: under cancer. So you know, a scope isn't done, three
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: months later, the person presents with cancer, which is incredibly
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: unfortunate for that person, but actually much more complex for
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the system to treat someone with advanced cancer rather than
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: just to get the early treatment of the pre cancerous condition.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly you know, it can have significant implications
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: not doing electric procedures.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Early, and that is as you've pointed out, there's the
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: surgeons are actually available, but we just don't have enough
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: theater nurses by the sounds of.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: It, that's my understanding. Yeah, well, no.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Doubt that's something that we'll get onto and that hopefully
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: we are able to see some change there if we're
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: able to bring some of these nurses across from overseas.
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  Speaker 1: Dr Parker, you and I have spoken extensively on this
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: show as well about the need for additional funding. I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: know that it's something you've been lobbying for for quite
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: some time. Is it something that you are continuing to
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: lobby those tiers of government for.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Well. My understanding was that last Thursday there was a
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: national ring around of all state health ministers who were
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: very concerned. They're all facing similar situations to what's happening
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: in Darwen at the moment with their hospital systems. There
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: was a framework for advancing health issues within the old
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: government system, the Council of Australian Government, so it was
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: called the Australian Armac Australian Health Minister's Advisory Council, and
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: that was abolished and so there's currently no proper advisory
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: system through the national Cabinet about how desperate things are.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: My understanding is all information comes from Brendan Murphy, who
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: may be a bit partial to the truth about advising
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: national Cabinet about what the real situation situation is that
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the coal phase and my understanding is so I think
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the state, the state healthness is are very frustrated that
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: they're not able to address national Cabinet about the real
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: situation effecting their hospitals. However, in Saturday's Week in Australian
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Premier Pala Shape from Queensland made a point that they're
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: not going to open their borders without additional hospital funding.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So she's now taken this argument directly to the Prime Minister,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: who apparently ignored it. But it is a desperate situation.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Part of the problem is that the five year health
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: funding agreements were signed off last year and after that
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: the Commonwealth breathe aside of the releases, we've done it,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: we can another five years, will think about it. The
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: problem is this situation isn't going to last wait for
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: five years. There are real problems affecting hospitals all over
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Australia and it's a significant situation.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Well, and then of course you add COVID to the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: mix and we've I guess seen it exasperated. How concerned
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: are you about the state of the health system right
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: now when we do talk about that delta strain of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: COVID potentially coming to the territory.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Very concerned, I mean to, given my understanding, is currently
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: half of the beds in Royal Melbourne Hospital, which is
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: one of Melbourne's major health institutions, that devoted to COVID,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: and that gives you some idea of the pressure that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: COVID can put on a health system. So obviously, if
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: we do get an outbreak of COVID in the territory,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: and particularly if it affects individuals in the indigenous communities
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: they've got poor vaccination rates, it's probably can have massive
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: implications both for very serious health complications and mortality in
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: those individuals.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Oh and you and I spoke, I think it was
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: last Monday actually about the number of beds that we've
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: got when it comes to when it comes to having
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: those respirators and various things that you potentially need. If
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: there is somebody who becomes chronically I'm well or critically
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: I'm well with COVID, it just doesn't seem as though
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: we've really got what we require. No.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I've argued for much better funding for the health system,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you know, for a long time, and that letter I
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: wrote to Minister Hunt three years ago argued for a
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: lot more funding for the nt SO I agree we
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: need a lot more beds to deal with the current
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: pressure on the health system and potentially, you know, anticipating
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: we'll get a more pressure with COVID as well.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Doctor Parker, I have just got one question from a listener.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Our healthcare workers need to be mandatory vaxed if they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: don't want the vax and this causes staffing issues, isn't
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: this a bad thing? I don't know if you've got
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: any comment on that.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Look, I think a vaccination is a contribution to the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: community and to your the patient care and really that's
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: why it's essential or health care workers have vaccinated.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Doctor Robert Parker, the head of the Australian Medical Association's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory branch, thank you very much for your time
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: this morning. Twice in a row that you've been on
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: leave and still joined us on the show. We really
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: appreciate you chatting this morning.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: My pleasure, Katy.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you