Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 40: Jorge Ruiz | Recruiting, Roster Building, and the Rise from Video Coordinator to Assistant GM

Transcript

EP 40: Jorge Ruiz | Recruiting, Roster Building, and the Rise from Video Coordinator to Assistant GM · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

• 0:00
  Portal recruiting is basically speed dating.
• 0:02
  You're getting to know everyone around them.
• 0:04
  You're trying to figure out the habits that they really have, if
• 0:07
  they're really who kind of they say they are.
• 0:09
  There is cool stuff that comes with this, but you got to make
• 0:12
  sure that you're getting the guys who ultimately love this
• 0:15
  for the development, the growth of it, right?
• 0:17
  Like love basketball or competitive guys want to be the
• 0:20
  best at what they are. I think those are ultimately the
• 0:23
  deciding factors, right? Like how competitive you are and
• 0:27
  how much you really love this compared to are you in love with
• 0:30
  everything else it brings? We just ultimately believe that
• 0:33
  like, people rise up to what you expect out of them, right?
• 0:35
  And so that's why we have such high expectations for our guys.
• 0:38
  And like you said, we give it to them, right?
• 0:40
  And we give them the ownership of their development.
• 0:43
  Ultimately, we believe that like development happens in the
• 0:46
  person before the player. I think we can avoid a lot of
• 0:49
  those situations by just being transparent, being honest in the
• 0:52
  communication process. You know, I'm big on not wanting
• 0:55
  to sell a kid a dream. I'll never ask you for anything.
• 0:57
  I don't want you to be great. So I could ask you you for
• 1:00
  something in return. I want you to be great because
• 1:02
  that's what you ultimately want to be.
• 1:03
  So I think that's my my largest purpose in basketball.
• 1:12
  Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
• 1:14
  I'm your host, John Bloom, and today's guest is Jorge Ruiz.
• 1:17
  Jorge's in his eighth year on the basketball staff at Weber
• 1:20
  State University, starting as the video coordinator and
• 1:23
  working his way up to Director of basketball Operations and
• 1:26
  full time assistant coach where he was the youngest assistant in
• 1:29
  the nation at that time. And now adding the title
• 1:31
  assistant GM is one of the very best I've seen in the recruiting
• 1:35
  game and that's what we dive deep into today with the GM
• 1:38
  position and the current environment of college sports.
• 1:41
  How is he building their roster when he doesn't know who will
• 1:43
  stay? What does he evaluate for and
• 1:45
  how is that different for high school recruits versus the
• 1:48
  portal? What do coaches miss about
• 1:50
  players like Damian Lillard and Dylan Jones who go to Weber
• 1:53
  State in mid major and become first round picks?
• 1:56
  Also, what's unique about Weber State that develops and prepares
• 2:00
  players for professional careers?
• 2:02
  Or he also breaks down how strength coaches can add value
• 2:05
  in the crude process and how he approaches skill development in
• 2:08
  season to maximize long term growth while still keeping
• 2:12
  players fresh. If you're getting value from
• 2:15
  these conversations, give the show a follow and leave a
• 2:18
  review. It helps us continue to reach
• 2:19
  and impact more coaches. Let's get into today's episode,
• 2:25
  Jorge, and it's it's always a pleasure get to talk to you,
• 2:27
  man. It was super cool to get to see
• 2:29
  you a couple days ago when you're here recruiting in Dallas
• 2:31
  and pump now to get, you know, have a have a great conversation
• 2:35
  and dig into things, roster management, what you're doing
• 2:38
  out of Weber and just kind of digging into, you know, where
• 2:40
  you at in your career. So I mean, I'm, I'm excited to
• 2:43
  have you here. Thank you for having me Bloom.
• 2:44
  I know doing a few of these, I'm usually kind of meeting the
• 2:47
  person for the first time, but this one's a little bit more
• 2:50
  special to me. You know, I'm really excited to
• 2:52
  be with you and just have a natural conversation here of
• 2:55
  kind of picking each other's brain.
• 2:57
  So thank you. For having, yeah.
• 2:58
  So for people that don't know Jorge, he's at Weber State.
• 3:01
  We're getting a little bit more, but he's on the basketball staff
• 3:03
  there. So when I was a strength coach
• 3:05
  at Weber State, we got to work together, we live together, We
• 3:10
  did did most everything together.
• 3:11
  So it's a cool, cool opportunity to talk more with him because
• 3:15
  you, you know, just give a brief background to what you do and
• 3:18
  how you got. There.
• 3:19
  Yeah. So I mean, kind of starting off,
• 3:21
  I started off at Arizona State with a coach Herb Sendak as a
• 3:24
  manager and they transitioned into Coach Bobby Hurley.
• 3:27
  So it was awesome for me to learn from two different Staffs
• 3:29
  and then, you know, stops at Grand Canyon before this.
• 3:32
  But now I've been at Weber here for the last eight years and I
• 3:36
  came in as like the video guy kind of worked my way in, you
• 3:39
  know, OPS to assistant coach these last four years, just kind
• 3:42
  of a little bit of everything here.
• 3:44
  And so I've been really fortunate to have an experience
• 3:47
  where I can have hands on and real responsibilities here.
• 3:51
  And it's been awesome for me and my growth and my development,
• 3:54
  but ultimately just kind of being around good people.
• 3:56
  You know, when I first came in here, Coach Ray's a Hall of
• 3:58
  Famer, a guy who will be retired here.
• 4:02
  You know that I'm sure they'll have them in the Weber State
• 4:04
  Hall of Fame, Big Sky Hall of Fame, all time winning as head
• 4:07
  coach. And then, you know,
• 4:08
  transitioning to Coach Duff's era, you know where he's
• 4:12
  starting off in his first four years as a head coach here.
• 4:14
  That's been really fun and awesome to kind of grow and
• 4:17
  develop and grow in this foundation here in Ogden.
• 4:20
  Yeah, that's awesome. I, I feel like it's pretty
• 4:22
  special. You've been there eight years,
• 4:24
  right? Starting as you know, starting
• 4:26
  kind of at the bottom video coordinator and working your way
• 4:28
  up step by step from position to position.
• 4:30
  I guess kind of what's your thoughts on that like, because I
• 4:32
  feel like there's a lot of people that maybe would would
• 4:34
  start at one of those positions and then they bounce to another
• 4:38
  school to upgrade maybe a little bit and they bounce to another
• 4:40
  school versus kind of the approach you had.
• 4:44
  Where were you, right? You've been there eight years,
• 4:45
  which I feel like is pretty, pretty rare for for a lot of
• 4:48
  people, especially your age in college athletics and be able to
• 4:51
  actually develop and grow within a program versus growing by
• 4:55
  leaving to another program. You know, in college athletics
• 4:58
  there's just no like direct path ultimately, right?
• 5:01
  There's no right or wrong answer.
• 5:03
  When I first got here, I came in as like a volunteer video
• 5:06
  coordinator. I actually had like an
• 5:09
  opportunity to go be a graduate assistant at like a Mount West
• 5:12
  school. And one of my mentors, Rashawn
• 5:14
  Burnett, was kind of like, hey, man, you're crazy if you turn
• 5:17
  down any full time position with real responsibilities.
• 5:21
  So that's kind of been my thought process here.
• 5:22
  We were like in the last eight years of just being able to to,
• 5:26
  you know, grow. I've always felt like I've been,
• 5:28
  you know, challenged and pushed with new responsibilities, new
• 5:32
  ways of developing. And so that's kind of why I've
• 5:35
  stayed here. Ultimately, I've I've always
• 5:37
  wanted to chase good people and be around good people.
• 5:40
  And I truly believe coach Ray and coach stuff, the culture
• 5:42
  that they've created here, you know, I mean, coach has been
• 5:44
  here 20 years. That's special.
• 5:46
  Like to be part of something like that.
• 5:48
  I mean, I think that's really something where, you know, I've
• 5:50
  just kind of chased good people. But you know, I see the value in
• 5:53
  like the other way, like you said, of balancing here,
• 5:56
  learning from new different guys, getting those new
• 5:58
  experiences. But ultimately I've been
• 6:01
  challenged and pushed to grow here.
• 6:03
  And so I've been awesome to be here.
• 6:05
  Yeah, Yeah. I think both, like there's
• 6:07
  definitely positive both like for me, you know, I was moving a
• 6:11
  little more frequently in my college career and there's
• 6:14
  definitely like, OK, each spot you learn from new people, you
• 6:16
  learn from the different settings and that grew.
• 6:19
  But I think one thing out I wished for kind of being there
• 6:22
  longer at some of those spots, you get a build on that year of
• 6:26
  some of the maybe systems or like relations you've
• 6:28
  established and you get to continue to kind of elevate
• 6:31
  within that program versus always having to like start
• 6:33
  over, which I feel also grows, allows you to grow your
• 6:36
  experience, like your skill set and maybe a different way than
• 6:40
  going different places, but they're both growing you.
• 6:42
  I think like you're saying, as long as you're chasing those
• 6:45
  places that have great people, great experiences, great
• 6:48
  networks and like allowing you to grow versus, you know, taking
• 6:52
  a bounce into another job. But now it's just it's a good
• 6:54
  logo, but you don't actually get any responsibility and
• 6:57
  opportunity to grow as a coach in person.
• 6:59
  Yeah. I think just chasing like the
• 7:01
  challenges a little bit, right? Like I think that's one of the
• 7:04
  biggest things is making, making sure that you're being
• 7:06
  challenged to become better than what you were last year and just
• 7:10
  have people that are willing to tell you the truth.
• 7:12
  You know, I think when you, like you said you moved four years in
• 7:16
  four different spots, that that's hard to do in itself.
• 7:18
  But also like you got to find people who are going to tell you
• 7:21
  the truth and make sure that they're challenging you, that
• 7:23
  you do grow yearly, right in that like ultimately you're
• 7:26
  constantly getting pushed for your development.
• 7:29
  I mean, I'm, I'm not even 30 years old yet.
• 7:31
  And so I think for me, like I've been always chasing like the
• 7:34
  development part of it, you know, people that are willing to
• 7:37
  tell me the hard truths and the hard realities of like, hey, you
• 7:40
  know, you got to do this better. You know, this is where you have
• 7:42
  to improve. And I've been fortunate to work
• 7:44
  with people here that that have pushed me there.
• 7:47
  Yeah, and I love that. And you're not even 38 when when
• 7:49
  you became a full time assistant there, you were the youngest in
• 7:53
  the in the nation in college basketball right now stepping in
• 7:57
  not yet announced yet. We will make sure we don't
• 7:59
  release this, this podcast just announced, but right into the
• 8:02
  assistant GM role there. Weber No, we were talking like,
• 8:06
  are you are you maybe the youngest in the GM role in
• 8:08
  college basketball too? I don't know.
• 8:09
  Maybe somebody that's listening can tell us if they have that
• 8:11
  information. But but I mean, that's so cool.
• 8:14
  And I'm sure that as like you're saying, in terms of finding
• 8:17
  challenges, like I'm sure that's been plenty challenging in a in
• 8:21
  a good way and I'm sure in a tiring way to stepping in that
• 8:24
  role. But what, like what it what
• 8:26
  actually is that role in college basketball, this GM role that's
• 8:29
  become a little more popular? It's very fluid.
• 8:31
  I'd say by program for the most part, right?
• 8:33
  Like I did a few background researches of like talking to
• 8:37
  different people, you know, people that have held the role
• 8:39
  or people that have worked on Staffs with the role and how
• 8:43
  they do it. And some people are, you know,
• 8:45
  it's strictly just roster management and building
• 8:47
  relationships and maintaining those relationships.
• 8:50
  Other people, it's more of a collaboration with the rest of
• 8:52
  the staff kind of still coaching, but also holding the
• 8:56
  responsibility of the negotiation parts in the roster
• 8:59
  management here more so I think, you know, working with Damian
• 9:02
  hand in hand with the program, it's more of a collaboration of
• 9:05
  us all. And I'm really excited to kind
• 9:08
  of hop into that role and just kind of feel whatever Damian and
• 9:11
  Coach Duff and the rest of the staff need, right?
• 9:13
  Like we're with two really good coaches, Dan Russell and Sean
• 9:17
  Vandiver, who they get really talented players.
• 9:19
  And so they'll make that job a little bit easier to kind of be
• 9:22
  able to grow the roster and keep pushing it forward in this new
• 9:26
  portal versus high school era that we want to push in that.
• 9:30
  Yeah. And, and as we talked about that
• 9:31
  roster management piece, how do you think about that guys you
• 9:36
  recruit right now when it's, you know, beginning of the fall,
• 9:40
  summer and, and you know, in March, you don't know who's
• 9:43
  actually going to still be on your roster at that time.
• 9:45
  So how are you thinking about filling those roles when you
• 9:47
  don't know what roles are actually going to be open at
• 9:50
  that time? You know, just kind of being
• 9:52
  upfront and honest. Like I went to go see a few
• 9:54
  junior college kids here this last week or so, and I'm just
• 9:57
  kind of honest with them. You know, if we offer them a
• 9:59
  scholarship or if we offer them a, you know, an opportunity to
• 10:03
  join our roster, we're kind of like, hey, you know, it's all
• 10:05
  fluid and we keep those lines of communications open.
• 10:09
  We've been really fortunate here.
• 10:10
  We were not to lose many guys to, you know, financial
• 10:14
  advantages. They've been staying and
• 10:16
  choosing development here. And so we've been fortunate, but
• 10:18
  we're also not naive that like, you know, we're not immune to
• 10:22
  that. It's going to happen eventually
• 10:23
  or, you know, it's going to be someone that we thought was
• 10:27
  going to stay, is going to, you know, head out of here.
• 10:29
  And so we just kind of handle it with open communication.
• 10:32
  You know, like when you're talking to a recruit, you can
• 10:34
  tell them, hey, we love you and we're trying to find a way if
• 10:37
  you can fit the roster. But you just kind of balance
• 10:40
  that line with just being open. And I think recruits kind of
• 10:42
  appreciate that and, you know, the honesty and the just kind of
• 10:46
  upfront part of that. Yeah.
• 10:47
  And I'm sure that they do appreciate because like I'm sure
• 10:50
  there's other a lot of other situations where it's like, hey,
• 10:53
  like we're going to offer, we're going to offer like we want you
• 10:55
  all this. And then something happens with
• 10:58
  the port or something, someone stays, someone goes, they get
• 11:00
  somebody else and all of a sudden they just cut it off.
• 11:02
  And it's like, you've been telling me this whole thing for
• 11:04
  months. And I feel like that's a lot
• 11:06
  harder sting than hey, like like you're saying we have these open
• 11:10
  lines for months and then maybe it does work out, maybe it
• 11:13
  doesn't work out. But either way, like you've been
• 11:16
  fully open about where both of you are at in the process of
• 11:18
  that. Yeah, like in all relationships,
• 11:20
  we just value real communication, like be
• 11:23
  transparent, right, Be upfront. And we try to keep that as
• 11:26
  upfront and honest as possible as we can in the recruiting
• 11:29
  process. You know, sometimes there's like
• 11:31
  surprises. Sometimes a kid calls you after
• 11:33
  the first call and he commits or you know, someone that you have
• 11:37
  a real deep relationship with that you didn't expect, you
• 11:39
  know, to have a quick process like that.
• 11:42
  But like, for the most part, I think we can avoid a lot of
• 11:44
  those situations by just being transparent, being honest in the
• 11:47
  communication process. You know, I'm big on not wanting
• 11:50
  to sell a kid a dream. And even in the recruiting
• 11:54
  process, like we're really, really honest in who we are.
• 11:57
  You know, especially with the new era of how college
• 12:00
  basketball is, there's a big standard to play for Weber State
• 12:02
  basketball. And, you know, Coach Duff
• 12:05
  Damien, like they they ensure that that standard doesn't drop
• 12:08
  and is always met every single year.
• 12:10
  And so we're honest about that standard, but we're also honest
• 12:13
  about like the position that they're in with the rosters.
• 12:15
  Yeah. And what one thing I feel like
• 12:17
  I've seen happen in college, especially when like, you know,
• 12:21
  a lot of Times Now most teams have like maybe 3 or 4 kids
• 12:24
  coming back and they're bringing in like 10.
• 12:27
  When you talk about that honesty in terms of like what you're
• 12:29
  selling them some, I feel like sometimes like teams sell 10
• 12:34
  guys that they're coming in to be a starter and be one of the
• 12:37
  leading scorers and you get all those guys in and then it's like
• 12:41
  who's playing what role and the people are going to be unhappy
• 12:43
  about that. How do you, like, do you try and
• 12:46
  be really specific in recruiting specific people to specific
• 12:50
  roles and, and kind of how you are transparent, like, hey, like
• 12:54
  we see you as, you know, the first or second-half of the
• 12:57
  bench playing this XY and Z role, maybe Athlean score.
• 13:01
  But like, how do you, how do you approach that process of being
• 13:04
  honest, fitting roles, but still be able to get people to come in
• 13:07
  and do that? Like you said, it's just kind of
• 13:09
  open being transparent. Like we're really upfront, like
• 13:12
  we're never going to promise anyone to come in here and start
• 13:15
  20 minutes. If we did, we'd, we'd probably
• 13:17
  be lying. You know, if I'm telling you,
• 13:19
  you're going to play 3035 minutes, I don't know how you're
• 13:22
  going to come and grasp, you know, the system.
• 13:24
  You could come here and not understand it or not be the
• 13:27
  leader that you are, especially in the portal, right?
• 13:29
  Because it's like portal recruiting is basically speed
• 13:31
  dating. You're getting to know everyone
• 13:33
  around them. You're trying to figure out the
• 13:35
  habits that they really have, if they're really who kind of they
• 13:39
  say they are. And I always say in the portal,
• 13:41
  we're always trying to find out like the most negative things,
• 13:44
  you know, just keep asking everyone who he is and see if it
• 13:47
  you can get someone to kind of slip up a little bit and just
• 13:51
  kind of find out the truth about a kid.
• 13:52
  So we always try to do that. But in that way, you know, we're
• 13:55
  really open and honest. Like we don't guarantee spots.
• 13:58
  And we do that with the returners and the portal kids.
• 14:00
  Like we just don't guarantee anything.
• 14:02
  And I think that's kind of what our culture is here ultimately,
• 14:05
  like in the summer, it's super, super competitive from this
• 14:07
  group of guys right now. We have we got some positional
• 14:10
  battles, you know, of guys that we recruited in the portal, but
• 14:13
  also guys that we returned right?
• 14:15
  Like we have, I don't want to throw too much out there, but
• 14:17
  we, we have 3 or 4 wings that are going to be battling for two
• 14:20
  starting spots. And I think they're kind of
• 14:22
  knowing it right now in September, right?
• 14:24
  They're looking around and they're like, that gets open
• 14:26
  right now. And so it kind of raises the
• 14:28
  level of practice. But we're just honest up, up
• 14:30
  front with them. And I think when we have those
• 14:32
  beginning of the year meetings and we tell them where we see
• 14:35
  them, they appreciate it because in the recruiting process, they
• 14:38
  weren't sold a situation that wasn't truthful.
• 14:41
  You know, we tell them at the beginning, you're going to have
• 14:43
  to come prove who you are. And so once we see it, we kind
• 14:46
  of communicate with them of where we see them and then we go
• 14:49
  from there. Yeah.
• 14:50
  And I think that's really interesting when you talk about
• 14:52
  like trying to find the most negative thing and like that's
• 14:55
  what like especially like my last year earlier, I was
• 14:58
  thinking about all the time. It's like how do you how do you
• 15:00
  get to the bottom of like who these people really are?
• 15:06
  Because like you're saying, it's kind of especially in the port
• 15:07
  was like speed day, like that's like some of those things are
• 15:10
  like, you know, day, week long processes of, you know, get in
• 15:13
  contact and getting those people in.
• 15:15
  So it's like, it's, I feel like it's easy to put on a front
• 15:17
  maybe of like who you want to show that you are as a player
• 15:21
  or, or tourist school. Like what have you found
• 15:23
  effective of, of really getting into above, like finding those
• 15:27
  answers and and finding people to get to the truth of that?
• 15:31
  Because obviously, like if you're asking people that really
• 15:33
  know them, like most of them care about them and want the
• 15:35
  best for them and aren't going to just say the bad stuff about
• 15:39
  them, just straight out, you know, straight out front to you.
• 15:41
  It's like how? How are you getting to the
• 15:42
  bottom of? Just digging ultimately, right,
• 15:44
  like if a recruit wants to take 3 or 4 visits, that gives you
• 15:47
  about 3 or 4 weeks to dig right? Calling head coaches that
• 15:50
  they've played for, calling assistants, old teammates that
• 15:53
  they've played for, anyone that's been around the program,
• 15:56
  academic advisors, trainers, all that and figure out like, is
• 16:00
  this kid really likable? Is he really who he says he is?
• 16:03
  You call a kid every time he's like, I'm getting out of the
• 16:06
  gym. I just finished up a workout.
• 16:07
  You know, I just finished lifting and you're like, OK,
• 16:10
  I've called you about 1520 Times Now.
• 16:12
  And you're always kind of getting out of a workout.
• 16:14
  But then you start asking athletic trainers and you're
• 16:17
  like, well, the coach has kind of got to chase them around to
• 16:19
  get in the gym. And so stuff that starts, you
• 16:21
  know, not adding up. So just kind of maintaining
• 16:23
  notes, a lot of like our recruitment process, we manage
• 16:27
  the communication that we have with the kid and we all document
• 16:30
  a lot of it. So then when we're rereading the
• 16:32
  profile, we're constantly looking like, OK, this didn't
• 16:35
  add up. You know, so and so said this
• 16:37
  person, right? Like when you're having an open
• 16:39
  conversation, there's always a few things where, you know, a
• 16:42
  coach is like, hey, you know, he struggles reading ball strings.
• 16:46
  And then you just kind of write that down and you're like, all
• 16:48
  right, well, this person has said he's high IQ.
• 16:51
  So what does that really mean? You know, you start figuring out
• 16:53
  what everyone's really meaning by what they say because, like
• 16:56
  you said, you know, these are people who are really close
• 16:58
  around the kid and they try to protect them.
• 17:00
  And we try to find the truth and kind of weed out the rest a
• 17:04
  little bit. That's really interesting.
• 17:07
  When if maybe you're starting to hear stuff like, hey, like, you
• 17:10
  know, this person is really talented, but maybe they've been
• 17:13
  a problem in the locker room or they they've got their hard to
• 17:16
  coaches, you know, kind of those those factors maybe not directly
• 17:19
  related to the basketball skill. I guess where where's your head
• 17:23
  at in terms of being able to take a guy like that?
• 17:26
  And maybe how many guys like that you can take on a roster
• 17:31
  and then if they're there, like how do I best manage that person
• 17:34
  to align them with the team and get the best out of them for the
• 17:39
  team? You know, players mature just
• 17:41
  like people ultimately, like, you know, coaches mature, people
• 17:44
  mature and all that. And so we try to figure out
• 17:46
  like, is this player still in the same phase of life that he
• 17:50
  was, right? Like we all kind of throw this
• 17:52
  out because I'm really close with Kobe, but Kobe in the
• 17:55
  younger part of his career, Mcewind, who came to us from our
• 17:58
  on the younger part of his career, he he grew up right,
• 18:01
  like you really, he struggled with some life lessons and you
• 18:05
  know, getting to know Kobe, he's an amazing person and you start
• 18:09
  realizing like, OK, you just had some maturity battles, right?
• 18:11
  Like some growth where we get him and he's awesome, right?
• 18:14
  Like his day-to-day habits and who he is as a person is the
• 18:17
  same, right? And you kind of start seeing
• 18:20
  that develop. So just seeing that part of it
• 18:23
  more so of like figuring out where they're at, right?
• 18:26
  Is it a malicious habit versus like, is it just a maturing
• 18:30
  bump? You know, like these kids are
• 18:31
  1718 years old when they get into college, they're going to
• 18:35
  mature, they're going to grow, they're going to make mistakes.
• 18:37
  And so we do definitely have some grace.
• 18:39
  Ultimately, I think our, our culture here at Weber State's
• 18:42
  really strong. We make sure when we're
• 18:44
  recruiting transfers or any other kid, right, JUCO high
• 18:46
  school, that they're, they're knowing that they're coming to
• 18:48
  join our program, right? They're aligning with us and
• 18:51
  our, our vision and our standards of who we are.
• 18:55
  And so when we do that stuff, we're we're more so making sure
• 18:58
  that they know the foundation of who we are on, you know, on
• 19:02
  visits, we actually lay out some principles that we expect out of
• 19:05
  them. And it has nothing to do with
• 19:07
  basketball. Like we spend about 45 minutes
• 19:10
  talking about what we expect out of them in the classroom, in the
• 19:13
  community, you know, and what we expect out of them in day-to-day
• 19:16
  life, just so they know what they're getting into and what
• 19:19
  the standards going to be expected out of them.
• 19:21
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think Kobe was a great
• 19:23
  example, like you're saying, like I know obviously insanely
• 19:26
  talented player, but you know him and you know, a couple of
• 19:29
  those guys like dealing, they're like probably not many players
• 19:32
  in the gym more than more than them during that year.
• 19:36
  And like you're saying the same person, incredible habits,
• 19:39
  incredible approach to his development, one of the most
• 19:42
  competitive people probably have ever gotten a coach.
• 19:45
  And you know, sometimes there's, there's some battles there, But
• 19:48
  I, but I think overall, like he provided so much to the team.
• 19:52
  And I think part of that was like the, the, the ownership,
• 19:57
  like y'all as a staff gave him as a player versus versus like
• 20:02
  always going against him. It's like y'all, I feel like in
• 20:04
  the basketball team that you brought him.
• 20:07
  In the program, hey, you're going to be a leader.
• 20:08
  We're going to, we're giving you that responsibility and we're
• 20:11
  putting that on you. And I think sometimes that
• 20:14
  brings out some of those maturity bumps like you're
• 20:16
  talking about when you actually like put somebody in a role and
• 20:20
  show them that we believe in you to step into this versus always
• 20:23
  just going against, hey, you're not doing this, you're not doing
• 20:26
  that. Like why?
• 20:26
  Why are you having these problems and kind of pushing
• 20:29
  them into that whole of being a problem?
• 20:31
  Yeah, I think we just ultimately believe that like, people rise
• 20:34
  up to what you expect out of them, right?
• 20:35
  And so that's why we have such high expectations for our guys.
• 20:38
  And like you said, we give it to them, right?
• 20:40
  And we give them the ownership of their development.
• 20:43
  Ultimately, we believe that like development happens in the
• 20:46
  person before the player. And so with that, like we put it
• 20:50
  in their hands cuz like, you know, you might work out for 45
• 20:55
  minutes and then you got practice for an hour and a half.
• 20:57
  That's two hours and 15 minutes of your day.
• 20:59
  What are you doing with the other 22 hours?
• 21:01
  Right? You know, I think ultimately you
• 21:03
  have to take ownership for your development and your growth.
• 21:06
  We always tell our guys, especially our freshmen that
• 21:08
  like, hey, the ownership's on you like of your development,
• 21:12
  Like you have to make sure that you're getting yourself better.
• 21:15
  You know, I'm a vessel like I'm going to help you 1000%.
• 21:19
  Any way I can make that easier for you, I'm going to be that.
• 21:22
  Whether that's, you know, helping you with workouts, you
• 21:25
  know, working you out daily, kind of pushing you in that way.
• 21:28
  But ultimately it's on you. Like if, if we work out but you
• 21:32
  don't eat well and you sleep 4 hours a day, like the
• 21:35
  development doesn't work, it doesn't pan out.
• 21:39
  You know, like those guys that we've talked about, Dylan, Kobe,
• 21:42
  Stephen Ren, Plank, and just a lot of the really good players
• 21:44
  that have come through this program ultimately are obsessive
• 21:47
  about it to the point where like, hey, you tell them they
• 21:50
  have to sleep more. And Dylan's buying blackout
• 21:53
  curtains and managing the temperature in his room just to
• 21:56
  make sure that he gets 8 to 10 quality hours of sleep.
• 21:59
  Stuff like that. You know, where everything
• 22:02
  matters to them. When they start taking that
• 22:04
  ownership and accountability for their development, I think
• 22:06
  that's really when they flourish.
• 22:07
  Yeah. And I think I think that
• 22:09
  approach is probably part of why.
• 22:12
  I mean, there's been so many, obviously, you know, the NBA
• 22:15
  picks from Weber, but so many pros overseas and probably a lot
• 22:19
  more than a lot of other mid mate, you know, similar sized
• 22:22
  schools having successful pro careers, because I feel like
• 22:25
  that's more of what what they're going to need when they're when
• 22:28
  they're playing professionally, right at that point, like you're
• 22:30
  not getting micro managed your whole day.
• 22:32
  Like you have to take ownership of that.
• 22:33
  I think building them into that while they're in college and
• 22:36
  teaching them and allowing them to take ownership of their body
• 22:38
  and their habits and all those things you're talking about is
• 22:41
  now setting them up for that. Whereas I think, you know, I've
• 22:43
  seen in some programs where it's like we're micromanaging, you
• 22:45
  have to, to do all these things. You have to have this workout,
• 22:48
  this workout at this time and all these things.
• 22:50
  And it's like, I think when you micromanage sometimes and you as
• 22:53
  the athlete, if I'm getting told where to go at all hours of the
• 22:55
  day and then I'm just exhausted, like I'm not going to choose to
• 22:58
  do anything else on my own because I so much has been
• 23:02
  chosen for me. But I think when you, when
• 23:04
  you're giving in this power of choice and, and ownership and
• 23:07
  like you're saying it's going to go as far as they want to go,
• 23:11
  you're, you're developing that internal internal ownership and
• 23:14
  drive for the rest of their career now.
• 23:16
  Yeah. And I think it comes down to
• 23:17
  like, even when we're talking about individual workouts,
• 23:20
  right? Like any guy that I workout or
• 23:22
  anyone that I'm working out, I'm gonna ask them to simply hit me
• 23:25
  up the day before. I mean, I got a deadline.
• 23:27
  Like, if you don't hit me by 10:00 PM, right?
• 23:29
  If this workout hasn't popped into your head before 10:00 PM
• 23:33
  the day before, then it really wasn't that important to you.
• 23:36
  So ultimately, like, we're not gonna work out the next day if
• 23:39
  you don't hit me by them, right? And so I think, like you said,
• 23:42
  the whole micromanaging part, like we really try to focus that
• 23:46
  we're not micromanaging the guys, but simply like providing
• 23:49
  them with guardrails, right? Like I always say, you got to
• 23:52
  hit me up for a workout. But then if I see a kid who's
• 23:55
  like, hey, you know, this freshman kids starting to get in
• 23:57
  the habit of only coming in twice a week, you get in his ear
• 24:00
  and be like, hey, like you got to reverse this.
• 24:03
  You got to be in here four or five times a week and be taken 2
• 24:06
  off days, you know, like stuff like that.
• 24:08
  So more so giving them guardrails of like development
• 24:11
  than managing their development. Because ultimately, like you
• 24:14
  said, when they leave here and they go to Europe or they go
• 24:17
  play professionally, it's on that, right?
• 24:19
  We want them to have the success and the ability to be able to
• 24:22
  create a schedule and know what that looks like.
• 24:24
  And so when they're learning it here, I think that's kind of
• 24:27
  what helps them grow and have success at the next level.
• 24:30
  Yeah. No, that's great.
• 24:32
  Now as we think back to the recruiting stuff, what are the,
• 24:36
  what are the key things you're evaluate on and what is the the
• 24:40
  difference in what that looks like between, OK, I'm evaluating
• 24:43
  these high school recruits or JUCO recruits versus portal
• 24:47
  where like you're saying it's speed data and you got it, you
• 24:49
  got to value it pretty quick. Ultimately, like we have two
• 24:53
  really good like standards that we look at.
• 24:55
  You got to be competitive. Like, if you're not naturally
• 24:58
  competitive, it's really hard in our program to succeed.
• 25:02
  And you kind of stick out a little bit because like, coach
• 25:04
  isn't a big drill guy. Like he wants to play and we
• 25:07
  teach through the play. But ultimately, like, we want
• 25:11
  practice to be very, very competitive.
• 25:13
  And I mean, you were part of it. You've seen it.
• 25:15
  Like it's a lot of hooping and it's a lot of dudes, right?
• 25:20
  But that's the game. Like that's the game.
• 25:22
  And then secondly, I think we look at like the IQ of how quick
• 25:25
  you could process basketball, you know, do you understand it?
• 25:29
  Like are you driving it into a crowd?
• 25:31
  Are you driving it back to exactly where the ball came
• 25:34
  from? Are you reversing its sides,
• 25:35
  right? Stuff like that.
• 25:36
  Can you read what's going on on a ball screen?
• 25:39
  I think those are probably the two biggest things that we
• 25:41
  evaluate in everyone. And then when it comes high
• 25:44
  school kids to portal, like high school, we're looking at
• 25:46
  obviously the skill set, right? Does it translate?
• 25:49
  Is it something that makes sense?
• 25:51
  Has he been able to be held accountable?
• 25:53
  How does he deal with discipline and stuff like that?
• 25:56
  And then I think we start looking to it like who they are
• 25:58
  when they're under pressure. Cuz when you get to college, you
• 26:02
  know, like it, it's the most pressure you probably have
• 26:04
  played with in your life. And so we know that they're
• 26:07
  going to go through really hard times, but who are they when
• 26:10
  they're going to those really hard times?
• 26:11
  More so when we're looking in the portal, right?
• 26:14
  Like you have seasons of film, most likely, right?
• 26:17
  Or at least a season of film of production that you could kind
• 26:21
  of read and who they are as a player.
• 26:23
  So you could watch all those games.
• 26:24
  Like, you know, if if we're really on a kid, we're going to
• 26:27
  watch 15 to 20 games as a staff and not all together, but like,
• 26:32
  hey, we're going to watch 15 to 20 games.
• 26:34
  If we're really going it all in on a point guard, we're going to
• 26:37
  get that kind of obsessive and figure out about what he does
• 26:39
  well and what he doesn't do on the court.
• 26:41
  More so in the portal. We're trying to figure out your
• 26:43
  habits, who you are on a day-to-day basis, right?
• 26:46
  Like try to figure out where your vices are.
• 26:50
  And some kids don't like they don't have them.
• 26:52
  Like we kind of laugh about Dylan again, kind of bringing
• 26:55
  him back up. He was a kid who basketball is
• 26:58
  everything. They're like when NBA teams were
• 27:00
  calling and they're like, what does he do for fun?
• 27:02
  And you're like, basketball? His girlfriend plays basketball
• 27:06
  like for fun. He works her out like, and he
• 27:09
  does basketball. He watches his mother's games
• 27:11
  like it's all basketball. And so you just come on.
• 27:13
  Daniel's office. Yeah, like played two KGM mode,
• 27:17
  like the kid loves basketball. So with Portal kids, we're
• 27:20
  always just trying to find out those habits and try to figure
• 27:23
  out whether or not they're true, you know, like what truly are
• 27:26
  their habits? What are their day-to-day
• 27:28
  abilities? Because just like you and me,
• 27:30
  right, it's hard to break a habit, good or bad, and we can
• 27:33
  help them break those. But most likely, you are who you
• 27:37
  are. And so we're trying to build and
• 27:38
  meet who you are. You know, if we could break two
• 27:41
  or three habits, we could do that.
• 27:42
  But if we have to break 8 to 10 habits, you know, that's a,
• 27:46
  that's a full life makeover. Yeah.
• 27:47
  I wanna look at that stuff in the portal more so than high
• 27:50
  school. Yeah, you know, we've mentioned
• 27:53
  obviously Damian Lillard, you know, everybody knows who he is.
• 27:55
  Dylan Jones, people don't know. He was just there Weaver State
• 27:58
  for four years and it was drafted, drafted in the first
• 28:01
  round over about a year ago and won won the championship with
• 28:05
  the Thunder this past season. Right as we think about those
• 28:08
  two guys and obviously there's there's been other great players
• 28:11
  drafted and and had, you know, MVPS and the Big Sky at Weber
• 28:16
  State. When we think about those
• 28:17
  players, like what, what did the big schools miss while
• 28:20
  recruiting them? Like why?
• 28:22
  Why did they end up at Weber State but then be able to come a
• 28:26
  first round pick? I think a little bit, you know,
• 28:28
  Dylan's was fortunate because of COVID, people couldn't go see
• 28:31
  him. He he led his team in all
• 28:34
  categories besides scoring in high school.
• 28:37
  I think he averaged like 3 points per game.
• 28:40
  So when you look at his stat line, it wasn't like hopping off
• 28:44
  on the box score. But then you're like, well, this
• 28:46
  kid rebounds it and he makes every right play and he's super
• 28:49
  competitive and he starts seeing all that stuff defensively
• 28:53
  where, you know, in Damien's case, I think the staff did an
• 28:56
  amazing job of building a relationship with him while he
• 28:59
  was young. So then when all those big name
• 29:02
  schools, because he did get recruited at a pretty high level
• 29:05
  into like the end of his senior year, he kind of started blowing
• 29:08
  up, right? And all those schools started
• 29:10
  calling. And I think the staff had just
• 29:12
  had such an amazing relationship with him and Raymond Young that,
• 29:15
  you know, they were able to kind of fight everyone off and and he
• 29:18
  knew that ultimately that he would be going to a situation
• 29:21
  where people would tell him the truth.
• 29:22
  But you know, I think a lot of the guys that have been here,
• 29:25
  right, whether it's Joe Ball and Boyd, Jeremy Single and Dev
• 29:27
  Berry, Kobe Miku and Isaiah Brown, like all those guys have
• 29:31
  had opportunities to play in the NBA and some capacity.
• 29:36
  But I think what separates those guys is just like the obsession
• 29:39
  about it that all of it matters. Like they they really, really
• 29:43
  care and they have a deep passion for it all.
• 29:46
  I think that's hard to manufacture, right?
• 29:49
  Like you can't fabricate that. That's a real love for growth
• 29:53
  and development, but also having the ability to show up every
• 29:55
  single day, whether it's good or bad, right?
• 29:58
  Like we have one of our freshmen right now.
• 30:00
  I hope he sees this where he's going through the idea of the
• 30:04
  ups and downs and I'm like, hey, like his process is amazing.
• 30:08
  He's an amazing, talented freshman kid and his process is
• 30:12
  amazing. He shows up every single day.
• 30:13
  He's in the gym by himself. He doesn't need a manager.
• 30:16
  He doesn't need a coach. Like I peep, he comes in at
• 30:18
  night, I'm like, OK, you do everything right.
• 30:21
  But he kind of expects the results to be immediate and it's
• 30:25
  just not immediate. It's such a long, long race,
• 30:27
  right? Like we're trying to beat you
• 30:29
  because you showed up every day for three years.
• 30:31
  Like I think that's what really, really separates those guys in
• 30:34
  that development part, is that they're willing to show up and
• 30:37
  make basketball decisions for three to four years, right?
• 30:40
  Like you do that. OK.
• 30:42
  Then. Now you're in a position where
• 30:45
  you get an opportunity and your names called on draft night or
• 30:48
  you get an opportunity to go play at Europe and you know, be
• 30:51
  able to support and appreciate your family financially.
• 30:54
  Yeah, one, one thing I think about like that that tells me a
• 30:57
  lot about a player's mindset and their approach is like the
• 31:01
  difference between the way they warm up, whether it's a practice
• 31:05
  or, or a lift first day of summer versus February, March,
• 31:09
  because you'll see a lot of guys like it.
• 31:11
  First day of summer, like the entire team's locked in, you
• 31:14
  know, there's new, like everybody's there, everybody's,
• 31:16
  you know, excited to be back and, and doubt and trying to get
• 31:18
  their spot. And it's like everybody's doubt
• 31:20
  into even the smallest things. And then, you know, people get
• 31:23
  comfortable, right? Season gets long and you'll see
• 31:26
  so many guys that are just, you know, kind of kind of going
• 31:29
  through the motions, maybe through warmups.
• 31:31
  But then there's there's those, those people like, like one
• 31:34
  person I said on your Debian Harmon, like he's one of the
• 31:37
  most intentional every warm up, every workout, like the smallest
• 31:40
  things, like if you didn't tell him to do it, like he's he's
• 31:43
  going to be like, hey, like we didn't, we didn't do this part
• 31:45
  of the warm up, like, and he's going to just do it and he's
• 31:47
  going to do it like he's not going to rush through it all
• 31:49
  that he's going to be so intentional.
• 31:50
  And I think I just said says so much about like a person's
• 31:54
  mindset where like you're saying like it's, it's easy to be
• 31:58
  locked in in the beginning. But if you're you know, whether
• 32:00
  you see those results where you don't see those results like the
• 32:03
  people that are going to develop and go so far, it's the same
• 32:06
  thing no matter what the results are, no matter what time of
• 32:08
  year, it is like they're approaching it the same way.
• 32:10
  Yeah, 100%. Ultimately, I think it comes
• 32:13
  down to discipline versus motivation.
• 32:16
  I think when you start week 1 of summer, you know, summer is long
• 32:19
  now too. Like it's 8 weeks.
• 32:21
  These guys are like, man, like this is a grind.
• 32:24
  So it's easy to be juiced up on on week 1 and you got all the
• 32:27
  motivation in the world and you're like, coach, let's get in
• 32:30
  the gym, let's workout two or three times.
• 32:32
  It's all cool. Let's do it like, let's, right,
• 32:35
  like let's do it like. And then you start realizing
• 32:37
  like, oh, week four, week 5, like it got a little hard,
• 32:40
  right? Like you're kind of in the heavy
• 32:42
  meat part of it. And then you start seeing the
• 32:44
  real habits kind of come out a lot of OK, this kids not in the
• 32:47
  gym as much, right? Like he's not getting in with
• 32:49
  the manager. He's not on the gun as much as
• 32:51
  he was, you know, he's kind of burning out a little bit.
• 32:54
  And so we we try to keep the guys focused on discipline
• 32:58
  versus motivation, right? Like if you're disciplined, you
• 33:01
  can show up every single day and have a routine that you execute
• 33:05
  versus if you're motivated, you know, you're, you're just not
• 33:07
  going to get very far. Like if it's like today, I feel
• 33:10
  like it. Yeah, Today, today's a good day.
• 33:12
  I feel like it, you know, like tomorrow, I'm not feeling it.
• 33:15
  I'm a little sore, I'm a little hurt.
• 33:16
  And so we try to keep that in their head a lot.
• 33:18
  Yeah, yeah, as you talk about like, like Damon Lillard,
• 33:22
  especially at the end, having the opportunity to go to bigger
• 33:24
  schools but still choosing a mid major in Weber State.
• 33:28
  Something I think about like right now with the with the way
• 33:31
  the portal is right with older players, some of the OR like
• 33:35
  high level players choosing to stay longer because they cannot
• 33:37
  earn money. And a lot of these big schools
• 33:40
  go into the portal to bring in 2223 year old grown men who have
• 33:44
  already produced at a high level in college.
• 33:46
  For some of these higher level recruits, obviously like the,
• 33:48
  you know, the very top of the top five stars are going to
• 33:51
  still go to the big schools for some really high level incoming
• 33:55
  recruits. Do you think a lot of them might
• 33:57
  be better off going to mid majors versus bigger offers
• 34:01
  where OK, I can come in, I could be prioritizing my development
• 34:04
  on the team. I can get good minutes as a
• 34:07
  freshman versus sitting in behind maybe a 22 year old and
• 34:11
  develop through playing. And then if I show the ability
• 34:14
  to produce a level now, I can maybe transfer to a bigger
• 34:18
  school. Like what?
• 34:19
  What's your thoughts on that? Ultimately, like I think you
• 34:21
  really have to focus on who wants you and who really needs
• 34:25
  you, right? Like you can go and you're like,
• 34:28
  all right, if you're, I think after like the top 6075, like if
• 34:34
  you're not in that top 6075, I think you really have to start
• 34:38
  evaluating which school wants me and which school needs me.
• 34:44
  And if a school needs you, they're going to be way more
• 34:47
  invested in your development. You're going to have an
• 34:50
  opportunity to have the ball in your hands, or at least a role
• 34:53
  that fits who you are, right? And you're going to have an
• 34:56
  opportunity to put four years of growth and development into it
• 35:00
  all. Like that's so important to be
• 35:02
  able to put four years of a resume together.
• 35:04
  Like that's hard to replicate when you're sitting on the
• 35:08
  bench, right, for a year or two. Even if you're sitting for a
• 35:11
  year like your sophomore year, now you're only making the
• 35:13
  mistakes that you should have learned last year, but you're
• 35:16
  making them in the game. So now by your junior year,
• 35:19
  right, like you had those learning opportunities as a
• 35:22
  sophomore, but now there's a lot of pressure for you to develop
• 35:26
  and play immediately and produce immediately where if you go
• 35:29
  somewhere where you're playing four years, you know you're
• 35:31
  making those mistakes early in your freshman year, you're able
• 35:34
  to kind of adjust and now you have three years to play after
• 35:37
  you had a full year of experience, right?
• 35:40
  I think that's just invaluable of going to where you're needed
• 35:43
  rather than just wanted. Yeah, yeah.
• 35:45
  And like we were talking a little bit before this about how
• 35:50
  there is maybe more of a sense of like a need for immediate
• 35:53
  production just with the way the portal is.
• 35:56
  And I feel like you're saying like, if if you do go as a
• 35:58
  freshman, you just sit on the bench even for one year.
• 36:00
  I feel like at a lot of programs, it's like if you don't
• 36:02
  really do much for a year, a lot of them are already like moving
• 36:05
  on. Like, we're kind of writing you
• 36:06
  off as someone who's not going to produce at that program. 100
• 36:10
  percent, 100%. I think right now the way
• 36:13
  college basketball is, everyone's in a win now mindset,
• 36:16
  right? Like everyone has about a good
• 36:19
  amount of money, enough money to get you a few players to get
• 36:22
  stuff done. And especially if you're coming
• 36:24
  in from the portal, like you're expected to produce immediately,
• 36:27
  you know, you're not just getting this $100,000 just to
• 36:31
  kind of hang out and hope that it works out.
• 36:33
  Like you have real pressure to produce.
• 36:35
  And so, you know, if you're sitting for a year, they're kind
• 36:37
  of looking at you like or you worth the other investment,
• 36:40
  right? Like if we bring you back for
• 36:42
  another year, are you going to be an immediate production guy?
• 36:45
  You know, because they can't have you sit for two years
• 36:48
  because then that third year it's like you're either you're
• 36:50
  here or not. And so like you said, like a lot
• 36:53
  of programs start looking around after that first year if you
• 36:56
  didn't get to develop and play, they're like, was he, is he
• 36:59
  worth keeping on the roster for another year?
• 37:01
  If there's a, you know, maybe a freshman y'all signed this year,
• 37:05
  high level freshman getting offered a lot of money after a
• 37:09
  good freshman year to go somewhere else or you're in some
• 37:12
  recruiting battles in this next offseason and other schools are
• 37:15
  offering more money. How?
• 37:17
  How are you signing people to Weber State if you can't offer
• 37:22
  the most money? Maybe in a recruiting battle or
• 37:24
  or even just keeping someone from transferring?
• 37:27
  You know, like for our younger guys especially, we, we still
• 37:31
  believe a lot of development and growth here.
• 37:33
  So we still recruit, you know, 3 or 4 freshmen every single year
• 37:36
  that we believe in that, that we think can grow to become really
• 37:39
  good players. And so when they do have good
• 37:41
  freshman years, we try to keep them focused on the growth and
• 37:44
  the development, right? A little bit.
• 37:46
  You're trading that development for a little bit of money
• 37:50
  ultimately, like if you leave after your freshman year of
• 37:52
  having a good year, you know, you got to make sure that you're
• 37:55
  in a situation where you can call the shots.
• 37:58
  And most freshmen aren't in that situation.
• 38:00
  When you're having one good year, they're like, OK, hey,
• 38:03
  they'll invest $80,000 in you. But you got to understand that
• 38:07
  they're they're investing that $80,000 for you to kind of come
• 38:11
  in here and learn who their program is, right?
• 38:14
  Like now you might sit as a sophomore because they want to
• 38:17
  see if they can get you on a junior senior year, have a good
• 38:20
  year. And we're usually not the
• 38:21
  highest bidder for like a lot of the guys we get.
• 38:24
  I mean, I think the way we kind of just manage that is with our
• 38:27
  relationships. You know, coach is really active
• 38:29
  in recruiting. Our whole staff kind of dives in
• 38:32
  the guys and we just make sure that they know that there's a
• 38:34
  staff full of people here that's going to invest into them on a
• 38:38
  daily basis on and off the court.
• 38:40
  You know, there's still a lot of value with that.
• 38:42
  We always look at it as like values, not just financial.
• 38:45
  There's a lot of value of being able to step onto the court with
• 38:48
  people that you know are invested into you and trust you
• 38:52
  and believe in who you are as a player.
• 38:54
  When you're kind of getting paid that a lot of money, it kind of
• 38:56
  it loses the purity of it a little bit, but I totally
• 38:59
  understand it too. Like, you know, there's, there's
• 39:02
  a lot of money getting thrown around and if some kids have to
• 39:04
  go do that, I get. That it's really like from the
• 39:07
  beginning of the conversation, it's what sold you to go to
• 39:10
  Weber State, right to an unpaid position.
• 39:12
  But you had full time responsibility around great
• 39:15
  people, great program, great culture and all those things
• 39:19
  that sold you where where you could have, you know, got to pay
• 39:22
  a little more money, go somewhere else.
• 39:23
  But it's it's about like, what is it setting you up for down
• 39:28
  the line versus just what that logo is, what that paycheck
• 39:31
  looks like? Yeah, just chasing the
• 39:33
  challenges, like I said earlier, right?
• 39:34
  It's the same for a player as a coach, yeah.
• 39:38
  Do you want the ball in your hands?
• 39:40
  Are you going to chase that pressure a little bit?
• 39:42
  Because that's ultimately how you develop, you know, and you
• 39:44
  might fail, but like, you got to chase the opportunity to fail
• 39:50
  because you, you can't fail from the bench, right?
• 39:51
  Like if you're on the bench and not stepping into the game, you
• 39:54
  just never know what you're capable of doing.
• 39:57
  And so we always kind of look at it that way, yeah.
• 40:00
  What you know, we we've touched on some of these these aspects,
• 40:03
  but like from what you've seen in your eight years there,
• 40:06
  what's what's unique about Weber State that has allowed it as a
• 40:10
  mid major in the Big Sky to produce so many pros the NBA
• 40:15
  picks, but then also just so many pros going overseas and and
• 40:19
  producing enough high level careers.
• 40:21
  I think like we talked about earlier, the standard they
• 40:23
  withhold, right, like cultures, a big word that kind of gets
• 40:27
  thrown around in college basketball.
• 40:29
  But we kind of look at it as like a standard that's being
• 40:32
  upheld here. They're expected to do a lot off
• 40:35
  the court as well as on the court.
• 40:37
  And I think that ultimately helps you develop into a better
• 40:40
  player. You know, if you're able to have
• 40:41
  your life in line and you're able to show up to class on
• 40:45
  time, right, and be there 5 minutes early, that that
• 40:48
  transitions into who you are as a basketball player.
• 40:50
  Because now you show up to your basketball workouts 15 minutes
• 40:53
  early, right? You're stretched, you're warmed
• 40:55
  up, you did your ball handling. By the time we're ready to go,
• 40:59
  just that stuff of being really, really detailed in the
• 41:01
  standards. We don't ever want to let that
• 41:03
  stuff slip because we, we truly believe that that's what leads
• 41:06
  to the development and growth of really good players.
• 41:09
  But also people like we tell these guys when we bring them in
• 41:11
  that, you know, we're not just developing them as players, but
• 41:14
  people we want them to be in situations where they can leave,
• 41:17
  you know, ready to lead a family in a community, but also have
• 41:21
  that opportunity to advance their basketball career because
• 41:24
  ultimately, that's kind of what everyone dreams of.
• 41:26
  Yeah, yeah. What's the impact of like Damian
• 41:30
  Lillard coming back consistently to the school and putting on the
• 41:33
  alumni games, talking to the team now?
• 41:35
  I know like Dylan's doing some of the some of the same things
• 41:37
  like in the current players seeing like people of where they
• 41:41
  want to get from, coming from where they are and kind of
• 41:45
  seeing that path as like a okay, like this is possible it it's
• 41:49
  actually happened. It's not just like a a hope or a
• 41:52
  dream. You know, I think with those
• 41:55
  opportunities, like you can't really put a value on them.
• 41:58
  Like it's hard to explain unless you kind of go through it.
• 42:01
  But like Damien spent about two, 2 1/2 hours talking to our guys
• 42:05
  when he came back for the week. And it was it was awesome
• 42:09
  because you know, he's he's passing along the messages that
• 42:11
  that we try to put on a daily basis.
• 42:14
  But when you're hearing it from a top 75 basketball player,
• 42:18
  future Hall of Famer, right? He's had the career they all
• 42:21
  dream about having. When you're hearing about it
• 42:23
  from him and the adversity he's had to face, right, That it
• 42:27
  wasn't all just, you know, rainbows and sunshine.
• 42:29
  You start looking at Damian Lillard as a person rather than
• 42:33
  as this like mythical, you know, figure like he's a real person.
• 42:37
  He he deals with the same life battles that you're dealing with
• 42:41
  even at 1819 years old, right? Like he always pushes on the
• 42:45
  guise of like, hey, like my competitive juices get me going.
• 42:48
  There's days where I don't feel like, you know, doing it.
• 42:51
  But when I show up, my competitive juices just get me
• 42:53
  going. And and Dylan the same way.
• 42:55
  Like he spent about an hour and a half, two hours with the guys
• 42:58
  talking, answering questions and he kept it real with them.
• 43:01
  Like he was like, hey, you know, like there's a lot of purity and
• 43:04
  basketball that you lose a little bit when you start
• 43:07
  getting paid, you know, high level money And there's that
• 43:09
  pressure. But like he just kind of try to
• 43:12
  keep them grounded of like ultimately showing them that
• 43:15
  appreciate what you have here, the development and that part.
• 43:19
  Don't ever overlook it. And so I think those two being
• 43:22
  able to come back and spend time with our guys, like you really
• 43:25
  can't put a value on it. I think those are probably, if
• 43:28
  you ask any of our guys, probably the highlights of the
• 43:30
  summer of really being able to spend and pick their brains
• 43:33
  because you know, you'll remember that for the rest of
• 43:35
  your life. Yeah, I remember as you talk
• 43:37
  about kind of like that impact to that.
• 43:39
  I remember this summer we were there when when Dan came back
• 43:44
  and talked to them and and kind of talked about like how when
• 43:48
  when he was that he wasn't going, he he just he wasn't
• 43:51
  after filled back their challenge.
• 43:52
  He wasn't going out partying more like he like sold his video
• 43:56
  games and stuff like that. He's just doubted.
• 43:58
  I remember Kobe McHugh and like the next day wouldn't went and
• 44:01
  sold his PS five or something and he was like, I'm I'm not
• 44:03
  doing that anymore. And just like, like you're
• 44:06
  saying, like, you know, if I me or you maybe said like, Hey,
• 44:09
  look, we got your video games. Like they're going to keep
• 44:10
  playing video games. But when they hear it, like from
• 44:12
  that voice, the impact is just so different.
• 44:15
  No question. And like, you know, I'll
• 44:17
  ultimately tell the guys like, you know the answer, right?
• 44:21
  Like, you know, if you're working hard enough, like, you
• 44:24
  know, if there's distractions in your life, like are you spending
• 44:28
  two or three hours on something else that isn't helping you?
• 44:32
  Right. Like, and they're the only ones
• 44:34
  who know. Like again, we don't
• 44:36
  micromanage. I'm not following you around.
• 44:39
  You mean like, well, what did you do from 5:00 to 9:00 PM?
• 44:42
  Like, I trust you. Like it's, it's your
• 44:45
  responsibility to be a pro a little bit, right?
• 44:48
  Like you want to play professional basketball.
• 44:50
  Well, then start acting like a pro in college.
• 44:52
  It doesn't just show up. You don't just graduate.
• 44:54
  And then that summer all of a sudden you're like, OK, I'm a
• 44:57
  pro. I can handle all these habits.
• 44:58
  No, you got to like ultimately create these habits which will
• 45:01
  define you eventually. I'm a big believer in the fact
• 45:04
  that like people don't really get to choose their future, but
• 45:08
  their habits choose their future form.
• 45:10
  And so when you're really pushing, hey, your habits have
• 45:13
  to be right and constantly re evaluating like, OK, are your
• 45:18
  habits right? You know, are you doing enough?
• 45:20
  Ultimately, I think they know the answer pretty well.
• 45:23
  Yeah. And and you know, so there's a
• 45:26
  lot, there's a lot of college basketball, especially if you're
• 45:28
  paying these kids where maybe they're like you're saying of
• 45:32
  why they're successful pros. Is that that standard?
• 45:35
  But maybe other places there's not that standing like they're,
• 45:39
  they're producing at that level, at a high level, but the habits
• 45:44
  aren't there. So then when they try and take
• 45:46
  that next step up to the pro level, maybe when town is more
• 45:50
  even, you know, and then they can't just be better.
• 45:54
  Their habits are going to catch up to them and they're not going
• 45:56
  to produce versus like having a high standard, learning to have
• 46:01
  those habits that's going to push your development, drive
• 46:04
  your development forever versus getting tapped out, right?
• 46:08
  So they, I just always think like habits are always going to
• 46:10
  catch up to you at some point for the highest level people and
• 46:14
  might not be till the pro level. You might just be that good
• 46:16
  where you can still be better all the way through college, but
• 46:19
  eventually everybody catches up to that sometime.
• 46:21
  No question. I think at one point your
• 46:24
  talent, you know, is going to kind of equal out to everyone
• 46:28
  else's. And it's like, what separates
• 46:30
  you? I was talking to one of our
• 46:31
  guards last week and I was like, hey, man, my job is to make sure
• 46:35
  you don't get cut from a basketball team because you
• 46:37
  can't show up to the bus on time because you can't, like, show up
• 46:41
  to an individual workout. That's my job, right?
• 46:44
  Like, I need to make sure that when you leave here, you
• 46:47
  understand, OK, If I got an individual workout at one, I get
• 46:51
  there. I'm in the facility by 12:30.
• 46:54
  I'm on the warming up, whether that's stretching, whether
• 46:57
  that's ball handling, right? You like you each have your own
• 47:00
  routine, but I'm doing that and starting at 12:40.
• 47:04
  So when the coach walks in at 12:50, he knows that I'm serious
• 47:08
  about like this growth and development.
• 47:10
  We just kind of talked to him about like the message that
• 47:12
  sends, right? Because if I come in at 12:50
• 47:17
  and I'm like, well, we're so and so.
• 47:19
  Oh, he's in the locker room, all right.
• 47:21
  And then you come out and you got socks on, no shoes.
• 47:23
  And it's 12:52. And then it's 1255.
• 47:26
  You're shooting one last text off and getting the music right.
• 47:29
  And it's like, well, you haven't thought about this workout for
• 47:32
  more than 4 minutes before we got, you know, just always the
• 47:35
  message you're sending to people.
• 47:37
  Your and your biggest recruiting successes, what are the things
• 47:41
  that you saw about what that player could become that other
• 47:45
  schools didn't see? And then maybe in like some of
• 47:47
  the maybe recruiting mistakes or maybe just players that didn't
• 47:50
  pan out the way you thought, like what are the things that
• 47:53
  maybe you missed in those situations?
• 47:55
  I think ultimately it comes down to like basketball players,
• 47:58
  right, Having ball players, guys who can ultimately like love the
• 48:01
  game, invest everything they can into it.
• 48:03
  I think those are the guys who have the most success, right?
• 48:06
  And then I think the guys who don't have the success are the
• 48:09
  ones who more so value the stuff that basketball can bring
• 48:13
  because it is an awesome game, right?
• 48:14
  And like we all love the game and the grit and the grind of
• 48:17
  it. But you know, you do get some
• 48:19
  really nice things out of it, especially in this era, right?
• 48:21
  Like you get a lot of money, you get a lot of, you know,
• 48:24
  notoriety. Social media now, like they're
• 48:27
  posting you all the time. You know, all your friends are
• 48:30
  telling you how cool of a life you live.
• 48:31
  Like there is cool stuff that comes with this.
• 48:34
  But you got to make sure that you're getting the guys who
• 48:36
  ultimately love this for the development, the growth of it,
• 48:39
  right? Like love basketball,
• 48:40
  Competitive guys want to be the best at what they are.
• 48:44
  I mean, we touched back on Kobe Mckew and like, I think that's
• 48:47
  the definition of an ultimate competitor.
• 48:49
  Like I haven't I haven't been able to see or be around anyone
• 48:53
  at that level who can like meet him, you know, and there's some
• 48:57
  guys who were close, but like that guy, he's playing checkers.
• 49:01
  He wants to beat you and like badly.
• 49:03
  He wants to beat you before there's any like, hey, how I
• 49:06
  want to beat you even more. And if he doesn't, he's going to
• 49:09
  be mad and he's going to probably play checkers till 4:00
• 49:11
  in the morning so he can get so much better at it, right?
• 49:14
  Like that's how he looks at his growth and development.
• 49:17
  So I think those are ultimately the deciding factors, right?
• 49:20
  Like how competitive you are and how much you really love this
• 49:23
  compared to are you in love with everything else it brings?
• 49:27
  Yeah, that's that's really good. When I think about as a coach
• 49:31
  trying to become like invaluable or irreplaceable to a staff, I
• 49:35
  feel like that comes down to providing high levels of value
• 49:39
  in areas beyond like the reason you were hired.
• 49:43
  And as I think about that for as a strength coach, let's say
• 49:47
  working with college basketball, I think that means providing
• 49:49
  value in places beyond just like the the weight room of like the
• 49:54
  reason you were hired. And I think recruiting,
• 49:56
  especially in nowadays, like playing a role in that,
• 49:59
  providing a high level of value in that can help you become more
• 50:03
  invaluable to that step because that's not as easily replaceable
• 50:06
  as just being a good strength coach, in my opinion.
• 50:09
  From your perspective on the basketball staff part, like what
• 50:12
  what do you want from a strength coach to assist when when when
• 50:16
  you're recruiting a player in and him providing value and
• 50:19
  getting that player to sign? You know, I think the strength
• 50:21
  coach is a big part of it, especially now where guys are
• 50:24
  starting to focus on that in the way we're right.
• 50:27
  Like you see the clips of guys lifting after games and what
• 50:30
  not, Like it's a big part of it all now and like that part of
• 50:33
  their development. I think you set the standard.
• 50:35
  You had one of the better presentations I've seen of like
• 50:39
  that recruiting process and I think that always leaves parents
• 50:43
  and players wowed you, Justin Irwin, Damien de Santiago, like
• 50:47
  you guys were like the top of the top.
• 50:48
  Like it was really awesome to be around that and see that all the
• 50:51
  time. And you just constantly see the
• 50:53
  willingness to kind of do whatever needs to be done right.
• 50:57
  Like athletics is a is a tough job.
• 50:59
  Duties as assigned goes really, really far.
• 51:03
  And so I think just being able to be willing to do just about
• 51:06
  anything, right? Like if some days you got to do
• 51:10
  the training table order, you got to do postgame meal, do it
• 51:13
  like it's the most important task, right?
• 51:15
  Like I think that stuff is always valuable in ways where
• 51:20
  you could find value or like, you know, just kind of
• 51:22
  reevaluating, like, what can we do better?
• 51:25
  Like if you're not making smoothies, OK, well, why aren't
• 51:27
  we making smoothies? That's only going to cost us,
• 51:30
  you know, 400 bucks a month, $100 a week.
• 51:32
  Like we can't do that. You just kind of start always
• 51:34
  finding value and reevaluating who you are.
• 51:37
  I think on the basketball side of it now going into my 8th
• 51:39
  year, like you always try to find value and like, OK, how can
• 51:43
  I push this staff to be better? Like how can I fill a gap?
• 51:47
  You know, what did we feel was missing last year?
• 51:49
  And so you always try to like reevaluate how you can grow and
• 51:53
  develop and keep pushing all that.
• 51:55
  And so I think it kind of flows over into the strength coach
• 51:58
  world as well. Yeah, I got to say, man, I'm
• 52:00
  one, one thing I don't miss is having to make 100 smoothies a
• 52:03
  day. It felt like ever anymore as
• 52:06
  that's something I don't miss. But you know, if, if it coaches
• 52:09
  listening to you and listen to you talk about roster
• 52:12
  management, talk about GM roles as I and then I hey, like I
• 52:16
  would really like to like work towards a position like that.
• 52:19
  What steps do you feel they should start taking to kind of
• 52:22
  be able to work towards this kind of newly evolving role?
• 52:25
  Just manage the relationship right, like always try to like
• 52:28
  grow and network and organically.
• 52:31
  I'm not saying like reach out to someone and just like, hey, I'd
• 52:34
  love to network. Like that usually doesn't work
• 52:37
  right? Like do your research about
• 52:38
  someone, find out something about their path and usually ask
• 52:42
  them about themselves. Like people like to talk about
• 52:44
  themselves ultimately and ask genuine questions.
• 52:48
  Like, hey, coach, you know, I saw you talked about this on a
• 52:51
  podcast. I would love to connect and, you
• 52:54
  know, maybe ask you three things and list those three things.
• 52:57
  So like that coach knows that you actually invested some time
• 53:00
  already and like you're willing to organically build that
• 53:04
  relationship because ultimately I think this rule comes down to
• 53:08
  plugging everything together, right?
• 53:09
  Like especially now with players having agents and being
• 53:13
  represented by them, like you have to manage those
• 53:16
  relationships really well. And, you know, in the
• 53:18
  negotiation process, you're always constantly keeping open
• 53:22
  communication and making sure that everyone's on the same
• 53:24
  page, but also keeping it open communication with the player,
• 53:28
  right? Like, hey, you know, I know you
• 53:30
  have an agent, but I'm just keeping you in the loop.
• 53:32
  This is where we're at, you know, or even the parents, hey,
• 53:36
  you know, we're working really hard to get so and so's deal
• 53:39
  done. Like we just want to talk about
• 53:41
  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
• 53:43
  So stuff like that of always managing the relationships.
• 53:45
  I think you have to have really, really strong relationships.
• 53:48
  So when it does come down to something where it's like, you
• 53:51
  know, they're not going to budget on that, you have to have
• 53:53
  that relationship where it doesn't end the deal for you.
• 53:56
  Yeah, that's, that's great. That's really interesting.
• 53:59
  We, we, we've touched a lot on on kind of development without
• 54:02
  really digging into any details. You don't want to keep today
• 54:04
  centered more on like the roster management recruiting part.
• 54:07
  But I think you are one of the best I've seen at at the skill
• 54:11
  development side of things and actually working guys out and
• 54:14
  getting them better. And I think you also do a really
• 54:18
  good job, especially in season of still developing players
• 54:23
  while keeping in mind kind of where their bodies are at, where
• 54:26
  the loads at with practicing games and, and kind of thinking
• 54:30
  holistically versus just, OK, I'm going to work this guy out
• 54:32
  for 45 minutes and try and make him the best I can in that time.
• 54:36
  So cuz you kind of talk about your mindset in season of how to
• 54:39
  how you think about making players better while still
• 54:43
  allowing them to do their best in games from a physical and
• 54:45
  skill standpoint. You know, I think it comes down
• 54:47
  to like the value and reps, you know, sometimes we're going to
• 54:50
  get, you know, 3 or 4 good quality reps.
• 54:53
  You know, you got to push these guys to make sure that they
• 54:56
  understand the difference of of reps, right?
• 54:58
  Like in the summer, we're doing a lot of conditioning, a lot of
• 55:01
  like pushing and like trying to get you a little bit exhausted.
• 55:04
  Replicate that game shape in the season.
• 55:07
  You remember the game shape, right?
• 55:08
  Like you probably played within the last five days and you're
• 55:11
  like, OK, that's what that felt like.
• 55:13
  So now I'm trying to get you to understand like, hey, I might
• 55:16
  have to get 2 dummy defenders out here and like, let's
• 55:18
  replicate this just three or four times so you can feel it
• 55:22
  right? So you can have the success and
• 55:23
  feel what that felt like. And then I think, you know, just
• 55:27
  always keeping your mind open like of where you're at.
• 55:29
  I think you were actually the strength coach who brought it to
• 55:31
  me where you showed me the impact of how much individual
• 55:36
  workout actually equates to a game load.
• 55:38
  And you're like, hey, a 45 minute workout could actually be
• 55:42
  more detrimental to a guy than playing 40 minutes in a game.
• 55:47
  And I started like thinking about, OK, let's not wear these
• 55:50
  guys out, right? Because it is a long season,
• 55:52
  especially now with the summer being 8 weeks, like it's a long
• 55:55
  grind. And so minimizing the reps to
• 55:58
  make sure they're super efficient, but then also, you
• 56:01
  know, maybe less stuff off 1 foot and more off 2 feet, right?
• 56:05
  Like minimize the impact that's constantly happy enough.
• 56:08
  You know, these guys are going full speed.
• 56:10
  So like, let's not have them bang up their knees and bang up
• 56:13
  their bodies where then they can't produce on Thursdays and
• 56:16
  Saturdays. Yeah.
• 56:17
  And I think I think you did a really good job in the pre game
• 56:22
  workouts that you do kind of with some of the the high level
• 56:24
  guys that would go early with you.
• 56:26
  And you know, you do things like I remember you used to always do
• 56:29
  where it'd be like a, you know, a heavy pound into a shot versus
• 56:32
  actually doing like a, you know, a pull up jumper.
• 56:35
  You're kind of simulating that that feel while taking away kind
• 56:40
  of the unnecessary load so that we're getting them in their
• 56:43
  field, getting them in the skill stuff we need to get them feel
• 56:46
  ready for the game without tearing them apart every every
• 56:49
  time on those Thursdays and Saturdays.
• 56:51
  Yeah, for sure. I think that goes into the long
• 56:53
  part of their development, right?
• 56:55
  Like in pull ups we talked about getting to your base and
• 56:58
  pounding it into your shot pocket.
• 57:00
  And so if I can get them before the game to understand like,
• 57:03
  hey, what does my base feel like?
• 57:05
  What is the right base feel like right now?
• 57:07
  You know, left, right and right, left.
• 57:09
  Then also pound it hard into my shot pocket.
• 57:11
  Like a lot of the pregame stuff, we just kind of try to touch up
• 57:15
  their their base and their balance of like, OK, that felt
• 57:18
  good. All right, let's go on to the
• 57:20
  next. Like we're not going to sit here
• 57:22
  and do 18 reps and try to get seven in a row, which we would
• 57:27
  do in the summer, right? Like in the summer we're going
• 57:30
  to do something crazy. Like I might be like, hey, you
• 57:32
  know, we're going to go seven in a row here.
• 57:34
  Then you're going to shoot for a minute and a half straight and
• 57:37
  then we're going to end with 10 in a row.
• 57:38
  And you're like, that might take a minute, right?
• 57:40
  Like it takes a minute to hit seven in a row and we got locked
• 57:43
  in. So more so in the season, I'm
• 57:45
  just trying to get them to replicate what that feels like
• 57:47
  of their base, of their balance. I think that's a huge factor,
• 57:50
  development and shooting really making ensure that you have a
• 57:54
  strong base, get them to understand what it all feels
• 57:56
  like before the game. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:59
  For you in your career, what are what are some of the costs
• 58:03
  you've experienced from chasing being great at what you do?
• 58:08
  Well, I, I hope someone will say I'm great at what I do.
• 58:11
  I thank you. You sacrifice a lot.
• 58:14
  I think like, and that's everyone in this profession, you
• 58:16
  know, whether that's the best or the worst team.
• 58:18
  Everyone, I think in the coaching profession sacrifices a
• 58:21
  lot of time with their family, a lot of time with their, you
• 58:24
  know, loved ones, whether that's friends or family.
• 58:27
  You know, if you're married, your wife is is her and write
• 58:31
  sometimes she doesn't get to see you in some weeks.
• 58:33
  You're traveling for weeks. And so I think ultimately just
• 58:36
  in the coaching profession in general, you're going to
• 58:38
  sacrifice a lot. You're going to spend a lot of
• 58:39
  time and pour into people other people's kids and it's it's kind
• 58:43
  of thankless sometimes, right? Like, you know, you don't do it
• 58:46
  for a thank you. You do it to see that kid one
• 58:49
  day it all click right. And then as guys get older and
• 58:54
  I've been kind of growing up, you get them and they leave
• 58:57
  school in three or four years later, they're like, man, like
• 59:00
  you remember this one day and you're like, yeah, I do remember
• 59:04
  that day where you kind of had a rough one And they're just like,
• 59:07
  I appreciate you pushing me through that.
• 59:09
  I think that's probably one of my my highest forms of like what
• 59:13
  I'm grateful for is just the opportunity of guys being able
• 59:17
  to click one day of just like, well, that's why he did it.
• 59:20
  You know, that's why I was pushed that hard.
• 59:22
  But you do sacrifice a lot in this profession.
• 59:24
  I think in the strength of world and basketball and all that,
• 59:27
  just being in college athletics, you know, even our
• 59:29
  administrators, they're sacrificing a ton of time and a
• 59:32
  ton of investment to invest in other people's kids.
• 59:35
  So, you know, if you're wanting to join this profession, just
• 59:38
  understand it's definitely a profession of a lot of giving
• 59:41
  and a lot of pouring into people, and I think you have to
• 59:44
  love that part of it to be good at it.
• 59:46
  Very cool, man that yeah, those those are those those moments
• 59:49
  you mentioned are those are special moments when last
• 59:53
  question has like for you as a coach, when do you feel closest
• 59:57
  to your purpose? I think that kind of goes back a
• 1:00:00
  little bit to like what we just talked about when it when it
• 1:00:03
  comes full circle, right, Like not everyone gets to be an NBA
• 1:00:06
  player, Not everyone gets to be a high level pro in Europe.
• 1:00:09
  Like I love when you know, guys just kind of click and realize
• 1:00:13
  and be like, Hey, I know that was kind of crazy what we went
• 1:00:16
  through, you know, at the time, but like I, I appreciate you
• 1:00:19
  holding me to that standard. I think for me that that's my
• 1:00:23
  purpose of why I got into coaching.
• 1:00:26
  You know, I had some really high level people pour in.
• 1:00:29
  To me, and I didn't even realize it at the time, I was a little
• 1:00:32
  bit of a knucklehead. You know, I, I'd argue back with
• 1:00:34
  you, I'd kind of give you a little smart comment here and
• 1:00:37
  there. And then as I mature and realize
• 1:00:40
  and be like, those guys just wanted the best out of me.
• 1:00:43
  And so I think for coaching and a purpose for me, that's what it
• 1:00:47
  is for me is just being able to like push guys and invest in
• 1:00:51
  them. And they might not understand it
• 1:00:52
  at the moment, but I hope, you know, 5 or 6 years down the
• 1:00:55
  road, they understand that it was all investment out of love,
• 1:00:58
  right? And it was all investment out
• 1:00:59
  of, you know, wanting to see them do bet the best that they
• 1:01:02
  could be. I always kind of tell them like
• 1:01:05
  I'll never ask you for anything. Like I, I don't want that to be
• 1:01:09
  that, right? I don't want you to be great so
• 1:01:11
  I could ask you for something in return.
• 1:01:13
  I want you to be great because that's what you ultimately want
• 1:01:15
  to be. So I think that's my my largest
• 1:01:17
  purpose basketball. That's awesome.
• 1:01:19
  And I think, I think from like watching you, I think you do
• 1:01:22
  such a good job of the aspect of like, like you've talked about
• 1:01:25
  the importance of relationships so much in this.
• 1:01:27
  And, and like you have such great relationships with the
• 1:01:31
  players. But when the time comes to like
• 1:01:33
  you're saying, push them or hold them to a standard or, you know,
• 1:01:37
  RIP into their butt, like when they need it, like you, you will
• 1:01:40
  do all those things like, because sometimes there's like
• 1:01:42
  when you're trying to have the relationship, there's that
• 1:01:45
  tendency to, OK, I'm going to be their friend.
• 1:01:46
  And I'm, I'm not not trying to get into them too much, you
• 1:01:49
  know, but you know, I don't want them to get mad at me and affect
• 1:01:52
  that relationship. But I think you do a great job
• 1:01:54
  of being able to balance the two of those, which actually drives
• 1:01:57
  your relationship to an even higher level in that moment.
• 1:02:00
  But but also like you're saying 3-4 years down the line when
• 1:02:03
  they see what you're actually doing for them to it just it
• 1:02:06
  makes it longer lasting even then.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah, it's, it's a genuine relationship to their growth and
• 1:02:12
  development. Like I think a big part of all
• 1:02:15
  of this is the relationship you have with them.
• 1:02:18
  You know, I always heard the idea of like, no one cares what
• 1:02:21
  you know unless they care. Know that you care about them.
• 1:02:25
  And so I've always kind of thought that growing up as a
• 1:02:27
  young coach, I was always like, OK, you know, I got to make sure
• 1:02:30
  that guys know that like, I care about them before anything.
• 1:02:34
  But then you also have to be not afraid of confrontation and be
• 1:02:38
  willing to hold them accountable when that time comes.
• 1:02:41
  And yeah, is it going to strain a relationship for a day or two?
• 1:02:43
  Absolutely. Like, absolutely.
• 1:02:45
  You're going to have sometimes where you know, kids not going
• 1:02:47
  to talk to you and, and you got to kind of be a little awkward
• 1:02:49
  with them and chase them down and be like, hey, man, not like
• 1:02:52
  actually chasing down, but you're like, hey, like we're
• 1:02:54
  going to go, you have breakfast tomorrow.
• 1:02:56
  Hey, we're going to go have lunch tomorrow.
• 1:02:57
  Like why are you having all these meals with me?
• 1:02:59
  Because I know, like, I know you're mad at me.
• 1:03:02
  You know, I was in your position before, but you got to be
• 1:03:05
  willing to like confront them, right?
• 1:03:08
  And hold the standard because you can't fold the standard for
• 1:03:11
  anyone. No one's above your culture,
• 1:03:13
  whether that's a coach or a player, no matter how talented
• 1:03:16
  they are. You got to be willing to just be
• 1:03:18
  like, hey, that's not going to fly.
• 1:03:20
  And ultimately, like you said, right, like you got to balance
• 1:03:22
  it, but it's for the best and they'll understand that.
• 1:03:26
  Yeah. And I think as coaches think
• 1:03:28
  about wanting to like rise up in their career to higher level
• 1:03:31
  positions and responsibilities within a staff, I think that's
• 1:03:36
  like the higher each step you take, the more important it is
• 1:03:40
  to be able to have confrontation, right?
• 1:03:42
  Because you know, maybe as a as like a GA, you can kind of, you
• 1:03:46
  can kind of like, I don't know, be the nice guys, the right
• 1:03:49
  word, but you kind of be their friend more like you don't
• 1:03:51
  necessarily have to be the one to hold them to those things.
• 1:03:53
  In certain situations. You might need to be a person
• 1:03:55
  that usually like the, the real confrontation is going to come,
• 1:03:58
  maybe head coach, assistant coaches, those other positions.
• 1:04:00
  But if you want to keep you on the rise up there and especially
• 1:04:03
  like, you know, up to like head coach or doing like the GM
• 1:04:05
  stuff, you have to deal with a lot of people, a lot of
• 1:04:08
  situations and you're going to have lots of decisions to make
• 1:04:13
  on do I step into this confrontation and handle it to
• 1:04:17
  keep the standard of what we want?
• 1:04:19
  Or do I let this thing fly because I want the momentary
• 1:04:23
  easy path of not having to have that confrontation.
• 1:04:26
  But then that's going to just boil down into, you know, 100
• 1:04:30
  more confrontations because of taking that easy path in that
• 1:04:33
  one moment. No question.
• 1:04:34
  I think you're always being evaluated as a coach by like the
• 1:04:37
  other players on your team, right?
• 1:04:38
  And so if they see, OK, they're willing to let this person do
• 1:04:43
  that, well, then the next this guys going to do it like you're
• 1:04:46
  either just simply allowing it. And I always talk to our support
• 1:04:49
  staff and I'm always like, hey, like you guys have to maintain
• 1:04:52
  the standard, right? Like if the guys complaining or
• 1:04:55
  saying this, I'm like, okay, well, if you don't hold that
• 1:04:58
  standard accountable, then you can't get mad at him
• 1:05:00
  complaining, right? If you give into it once, well,
• 1:05:03
  then he's going to try it again and give into it again.
• 1:05:06
  So then you can't get mad in January when he's like trying to
• 1:05:10
  push back when you told him the bus leaves at 10:15.
• 1:05:13
  And he's like, like, I had this excuse, right.
• 1:05:16
  And it's like, well, it goes back to summer.
• 1:05:19
  Like, did you stand on your standard or did you bend it a
• 1:05:22
  little bit? Yeah.
• 1:05:23
  And you know, no one's perfect. Like, no one's no one's shooting
• 1:05:27
  100% from the field, right? Like, there's going to be
• 1:05:29
  mistakes. There's going to be some
• 1:05:31
  mishaps, but always like communicate like if you're
• 1:05:34
  running late to a workout, if whatever it is, communicate.
• 1:05:38
  And so we always kind of talk to our support staff of just simply
• 1:05:40
  about being like, hey, you're going to maintain the standard,
• 1:05:43
  but also communicate with the guy.
• 1:05:45
  Like if if the standard wasn't met and you felt like you didn't
• 1:05:49
  handle it appropriately, like have a meeting with that player
• 1:05:51
  one-on-one and be like, Hey, I feel like I failed you at that
• 1:05:54
  moment, but I need you to know that next time I can't, like
• 1:05:58
  next time I'm going to have to act on that if you put me in
• 1:06:01
  that position again, right? Whether that's canceling the
• 1:06:04
  workout, whether that's simply just not working them out that
• 1:06:07
  day, just be like, hey, you didn't show up.
• 1:06:08
  You didn't respect my time. So I can't move forward with
• 1:06:11
  this. Right.
• 1:06:12
  And it, like you said, it's hard as Aga.
• 1:06:15
  It's hard because then they they don't like you for two days and
• 1:06:18
  three days and you're not getting high fives that you're
• 1:06:21
  all of a sudden not their guy. But you again, you have to have
• 1:06:23
  those one-on-one conversations to be like, this is for the best
• 1:06:26
  for you. Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  Alright, this has been great man.
• 1:06:29
  Thank you for like you've talked about in this conversation, the
• 1:06:32
  importance of being honest and transparent with players, their
• 1:06:37
  parents. You know, you've been a great
• 1:06:39
  truth teller in my life and so many of the players lives that
• 1:06:44
  we've been both been around. And I just think that's that's
• 1:06:48
  so impactful, the honesty and transparency, but also the life
• 1:06:52
  you speak into other people with that while while giving them
• 1:06:56
  life, but also bringing them to an even higher level from the
• 1:06:59
  way from the way that's the things you see in everybody and
• 1:07:02
  the way you bring them to that. So thank you for that.
• 1:07:04
  And thank you for having me. You know, anything that involves
• 1:07:07
  you, I'm more than happy to do. You know, I know you do the best
• 1:07:10
  of the best work of whatever it is.
• 1:07:13
  And just to give everyone a little shout out, if you have
• 1:07:15
  any opportunity to ever work with Bloom, whether it's a
• 1:07:17
  project, whether it's in Dallas training, like do it like you're
• 1:07:21
  the best of the best of what you do.
• 1:07:22
  I know that whatever you're doing, you're going to put all
• 1:07:25
  your time and effort and energy to make sure that it's elite.
• 1:07:28
  And so I'm always always really happy to kind of hop on with you
• 1:07:31
  and talk and just kind of have a normal conversation, man your
• 1:07:34
  family. So I thank you and really
• 1:07:35
  appreciate you for having me. I'm grateful for you saying
• 1:07:37
  that. If anybody wanted to maybe learn
• 1:07:39
  more kind of about what you're doing or see what you're doing,
• 1:07:41
  is there any way they go on social media, anything.
• 1:07:43
  Check that out. Yeah.
• 1:07:44
  Yeah, yeah, I think all my social medias are the same under
• 1:07:47
  score. Ruiz, Jorge 1.
• 1:07:49
  You can e-mail me. It's on the Weber website.
• 1:07:51
  I actually check my e-mail, which I know that's kind of
• 1:07:55
  controversial for a lot of coaches, but I check my e-mail.
• 1:07:58
  It's Jorge Ruiz. I I at weber.edu.
• 1:08:01
  And if you ever want to connect, just shoot me an e-mail and I'll
• 1:08:04
  get back to you as quick as I can.
• 1:08:07
  I check it daily. So thanks, Jorge.
• 1:08:09
  Awesome. Thank you for having me.
• 1:08:10
  Bloom. Have a good one.
• 1:08:13
  If you enjoyed this conversation and want to go deeper, check out
• 1:08:16
  my book Strength in Numbers, Insight from top Coaches, and
• 1:08:19
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• 1:08:22
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• 1:08:25
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• 1:08:30
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• 1:08:33
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• 1:08:36
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• 1:08:39
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