Latest / The Academic Coaching Podcast / Why Great Coaches Need Better Business Systems | Patrick Quinlan

Transcript

Why Great Coaches Need Better Business Systems | Patrick Quinlan · The Academic Coaching Podcast

• 0:00
  Patrick: I have become, I think, a bit of a safety blanket for some.
• 0:03
  Patrick: And I'm like, once I've gotten involved, I realize this student could have just come to office hours.
• 0:09
  Patrick: He didn't need me to have a session.
• 0:12
  Patrick: He just used me as an accountability partner.
• 0:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Welcome to the Academic Coaching Podcast, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 0:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I am your host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we dig into the craft of coaching students, the study skills, the executive function strategies, and the occasional business tip for those of you in private practice, which we're going to be doing a little bit today.
• 0:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): guest just wrapped up his Anti-Boring Study Skills Coach certification, and he's about to dive into our Rock Your Biz materials.
• 0:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I wanted to catch him right here at the threshold before the next stage of growth happens to take a snapshot of how he's doing right now.
• 0:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Then we'll come back in six months to see how much his EF coaching practice and systems have grown and shifted as a result of his work in our business program.
• 1:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So Patrick Quinlan is also an actor, an improviser, and the newish dad of a sweet little bundle who sometimes attends our Lab calls smushed to Patrick's chest.
• 1:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): please meet Patrick.
• 1:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Welcome.
• 1:20
  Patrick: Hey, thank you, Gretchen
• 1:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You're welcome.
• 1:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): First, I feel like we might need to say how old is the little...
• 1:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): He's, he's not as little a bundle as he
• 1:28
  Patrick: He's not as little as when he, when I first started the Anti-Boring Lab, but he, um, he's about to be 18 months.
• 1:35
  Patrick: So he's,
• 1:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): months
• 1:38
  Patrick: he's learning all sorts of things, mostly motor planning stuff, like cro- climbing in and out of veh- um, cars, toy cars, and on top of tricycles and things like that.
• 1:50
  Patrick: Yeah
• 1:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Does he have any words or like what's communication like for him right now?
• 1:55
  Patrick: He has, um, he has a way of communicating.
• 1:59
  Patrick: He, he definitely is understanding us when we say things.
• 2:02
  Patrick: Like, he can say yes or no and shake his head, and he, um, he's had different words.
• 2:08
  Patrick: Like, we've gotten dad and mom at times, but it's not always specific.
• 2:14
  Patrick: And then, um, it's a lot of ba and a lot of, like, pointing at a ball, and a, like, just point...
• 2:20
  Patrick: A lot of pointing.
• 2:21
  Patrick: So he points out airplanes and garbage trucks, and,
• 2:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh
• 2:26
  Patrick: he's very...
• 2:27
  Patrick: He's paying a lot of attention to everything.
• 2:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 2:30
  Patrick: and we've taught him some sign language, so he, he can sign for more, and milk, and, uh, up, and things like that.
• 2:37
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 2:39
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Patrick: It's, it's really interesting-
• 2:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): brain
• 2:43
  Patrick: I was gonna say, it's just, yeah, really interesting watching it.
• 2:46
  Patrick: We took him to a, um, a pool the other day.
• 2:49
  Patrick: Um, we're staying near f- friends, and they have a swimming pool, but it had, like...
• 2:54
  Patrick: It was like a splash pad inside of a swimming pool, like a wading pool.
• 2:58
  Patrick: And he's been in regular swimming pools before, but this was one he could walk in, and it was just blowing his mind.
• 3:05
  Patrick: For 50 minutes, he was just pulling us, walking through the water like, you know?
• 3:10
  Patrick: Like, it was a totally different experience for him.
• 3:13
  Patrick: It was really wild to see
• 3:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): If only we could continue to explore that way y-
• 3:19
  Patrick: No.
• 3:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): right?
• 3:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's kind of the goal.
• 3:22
  Patrick: It's all repetition.
• 3:24
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 3:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, and it's a special age for me because actually when I was 18 months old, my parents had to leave me for about six months with my grandmother.
• 3:33
  Patrick: Oh my gosh
• 3:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): it's al- I know.
• 3:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Can you imagine as a parent?
• 3:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, that, that was the'70s.
• 3:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't think anyone would choose to do that these
• 3:41
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 3:41
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): if they couldn't help it.
• 3:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But, um, I'm always, like, it's always sort of poignant, a little sad and bittersweet to...
• 3:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But also kind of intriguing.
• 3:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's why I ask,'cause I try to imagine, like, what was going on for me I was 18 months old and they had to make that choice
• 3:57
  Patrick: I mean, there's, there's an aspect of, you know, like he gets upset when my wife goes away.
• 4:03
  Patrick: Like, he very much wants his mom and...
• 4:05
  Patrick: But there's also an aspect of kind of,"Oh, this will distract me." And so, like, we're gonna stay at, we're staying at, um, not, we're not in our home right now for the next few weeks, and we're gonna be traveling a little bit, so I'm just, like, watching him, you know, moving around our friend's house, and he's just like,"Yeah, this is fine.
• 4:25
  Patrick: This is normal." But so there is, like, an embrace of the new as well
• 4:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 4:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh my goodness, you're gonna have stories coming back.
• 4:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 4:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well,
• 4:34
  Patrick: Yeah
• 4:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): get to know you.
• 4:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We're going to get into the business side in just a moment, but at first, I've been really enjoying getting to know who people were as students when they were in school.
• 4:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So
• 4:51
  Patrick: Uh-huh.
• 4:51
  Patrick: Sure
• 4:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): a little game I'm going to give you
• 4:56
  Patrick: Okay
• 4:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I feel like we have a little bit of a delay happening here, so we're just gonna roll with it though,'cause I don't know what to do otherwise about it, and we'll edit out
• 5:06
  Patrick: Yeah
• 5:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): needs to be edited out if it's weird.
• 5:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, but I'm going to give you three choices, and you are going to choose card one, two, or three, and then I'm going to ask you the question from that card, okay?
• 5:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So round...
• 5:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We're gonna do three rounds
• 5:20
  Patrick: Okay
• 5:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and round one is all about you as a learner.
• 5:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So what do you want?
• 5:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): One, two, or three?
• 5:27
  Patrick: Um, I'll do one
• 5:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, okay.
• 5:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, question one is what do you admire about your teenage self?
• 5:43
  Patrick: What I admire?
• 5:43
  Patrick: Wow, that's a good question.
• 5:44
  Patrick: I, I was very ambitious and industrious as a teenager.
• 5:49
  Patrick: I, I was very goal-oriented and not deterred.
• 5:54
  Patrick: Uh, if, if things didn't go my way, I, I made a new plan and adjusted.
• 6:00
  Patrick: So, and I had a variety of long-term and short-term goals that I, um, and a lot of energy to, to tackle it.
• 6:08
  Patrick: So I guess I'm ad- I admire that
• 6:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That seems like you're no different today from what I've seen on the outside.
• 6:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do
• 6:16
  Patrick: I have a little less energy
• 6:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Less energy.
• 6:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But still stick-to-it-iveness.
• 6:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's why you're
• 6:24
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 6:24
  Patrick: Yeah
• 6:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Morning Lab Rock Your Biz program
• 6:27
  Patrick: That's right.
• 6:28
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 6:29
  Patrick: Yeah, I still stick with it
• 6:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and what kind of a student were you?
• 6:34
  Patrick: I was a, uh, a, a grade grubber.
• 6:37
  Patrick: I was a good student.
• 6:38
  Patrick: I, um, I, I was very motivated by earning good grades and getting validation and from teachers and, uh, um, but I also loved collaborating with my friends.
• 6:51
  Patrick: Like, in high school we had study groups, and I remember helping my friends learn geometry or, or pre-calc.
• 7:00
  Patrick: Um, and, and I loved all the creative parts of school, so I, I, I was a big writer.
• 7:08
  Patrick: I liked...
• 7:08
  Patrick: I...
• 7:09
  Patrick: And I loved writing my intros and conclusions because that was where you could express yourself the most.
• 7:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, interesting.
• 7:16
  Patrick: Yeah
• 7:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): When did you discover acting?
• 7:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Was it then or was it later?
• 7:23
  Patrick: No, it was, um, it was, I- The first time I performed was maybe in like third grade or younger.
• 7:31
  Patrick: Like, I did different, different shows and, um, uh, my brother reminded me recently that I did like a park district performance of Hansel and Gretel one summer.
• 7:43
  Patrick: Um, and, uh, and then in junior high we did a musical every year in the spring, and I did that each year.
• 7:52
  Patrick: And, um, in high school I did sports and then I, um, I was in, like freshman year I was in marching band and I was on the soccer and basketball team.
• 8:03
  Patrick: And
• 8:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you did it all
• 8:05
  Patrick: yeah, I was v- I, very, very busy and, um, I liked being busy.
• 8:11
  Patrick: And I had to quit marching band to, um, because I saw show choir as an option to get closer to the theater.
• 8:21
  Patrick: So I did show choir the sophomore year.
• 8:24
  Patrick: And then, um, the, my junior year I auditioned for the winter play, and then my senior year I quit sports entirely and did all theater, and right before college.
• 8:36
  Patrick: Yeah, so I, I sort of committed to theater around, uh, 16, 17
• 8:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so in the midst of all that busyness, if you were to go back and do a coaching session with your teenage self,
• 8:54
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 8:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): what do you think you would do with him?
• 8:58
  Patrick: Um, I mean, I think it would be more about managing the, like, stress, like the pressure
• 9:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uh-huh.
• 9:09
  Patrick: little bit.
• 9:09
  Patrick: I think I did a pretty good...
• 9:11
  Patrick: My mom was a guidance counselor, a high school guidance counselor, so I had an inside track into
• 9:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 9:18
  Patrick: about my feelings and stress and, um, and I was o- we had a good relationship that whole time.
• 9:26
  Patrick: We still do.
• 9:27
  Patrick: And, um, so, but, you know, there were moments where I think it was s- working late, staying up late studying, and so I learned later in college how to, and a little bit in high school, but how to just take pressure off of everything and say,"You know what?
• 9:45
  Patrick: This class, this class can be a B.
• 9:47
  Patrick: That's okay for me." Um, or I don't have to be, I don't have to be in the hardest class in every subject.
• 9:53
  Patrick: I could pick the subjects I care about.
• 9:55
  Patrick: So if I could have gotten to that sooner, that probably would, something I would encourage, you know, sort of fighting off the perfectionism and, um, and peer pressure to, I don't know, to succeed.
• 10:12
  Patrick: But I, I got there pretty naturally too
• 10:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 10:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Sounds like you got there.
• 10:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It just would've been nice.
• 10:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's always nice to get there sooner.
• 10:19
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 10:20
  Patrick: I mean, my parents, I think, were coaching me a bit, you know, grow- like, they were very involved, and m- my s- brother and s- I have a younger brother and sister, and we're different learners, and we had, all had different relationships with school.
• 10:34
  Patrick: And so, you know, my parents were...
• 10:39
  Patrick: Yeah, I would do my homework in the kitchen, uh, or the dining room, and everyone, in front of everybody.
• 10:44
  Patrick: It was visible.
• 10:45
  Patrick: My work was visible.
• 10:46
  Patrick: And,
• 10:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, interesting
• 10:49
  Patrick: dad would proofread.
• 10:50
  Patrick: He was a editor for a newspaper, and he would proofread my papers, and then I'd have to sit with him and go through all the revisions and things like that.
• 10:59
  Patrick: So I always approached school with this collaborative...
• 11:02
  Patrick: So when I came to tutoring and coaching students on my own, it just was second nature.
• 11:08
  Patrick: Like, this is just a good way to learn
• 11:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 11:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And you know, first of all, I had just never thought of, don't know why I'm like judging myself for not having thought of the point that you just made.
• 11:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): When we're doing our work in public, then people see it, then there's just a, just a little bit more accountability it, and that's just, just a fascinating nugget to see that I...
• 11:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, I- there are other good reasons why I recommend students do their work in public, but that is one specific one I hadn't thought of.
• 11:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Hmm.
• 11:40
  Patrick: Yeah, I think about it a lot now because everything's so digital, so it just is private automatically.
• 11:46
  Patrick: You know, when growing up in the, in being in school in the'90s, there was a home computer and we all shared it You know?
• 11:54
  Patrick: So if you had something to do, it, it had to line up with everyone else's schedule too, and you had to share
• 12:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Y- you know, there's a theme here.
• 12:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Sarah Ward, who I just interviewed prior to you right now, uh, was...
• 12:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We've been talking about how much more analog and hands-on learning was back in, for her and I, I don't even know how old she is actually, but let's just say for all of us,'80s and'90s.
• 12:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): '70s,
• 12:24
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 12:25
  Patrick: Pre, pre-arts.
• 12:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, pre-aughts, exactly.
• 12:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And how there's, there's a lot that's great about education today that's improved, but almost like I wonder if it's time for us to teach vintage study skills.
• 12:43
  Patrick: Yeah
• 12:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): sentence diagramming, diagramming, note card, note cards and research, outlining.
• 12:52
  Patrick: I think there's definitely students that would be into it,'cause they're
• 12:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): there might be market-
• 12:55
  Patrick: the ones using Polaroid cameras or, or th- being self-imposed Luddites and, like,
• 13:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 13:02
  Patrick: out in nature and r- you know, getting dumb phones and things like that.
• 13:06
  Patrick: So,
• 13:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 13:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So
• 13:09
  Patrick: it's...
• 13:10
  Patrick: And you, you...
• 13:11
  Patrick: It's a good skill'cause you're not reliant on anything, you know?
• 13:15
  Patrick: I've had students who have power outages or the f- you forget your computer, and it's like you're toast.
• 13:22
  Patrick: And,
• 13:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): True.
• 13:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So
• 13:23
  Patrick: and it's harder to help.
• 13:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): note card
• 13:25
  Patrick: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:27
  Patrick: Like, just schools not having textbooks to me in the la- Like, the, that change over the last decade is fascinating because you're just like,"But how can anyone else help the student look, look up material or reread a section or things like that?"
• 13:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 13:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, that, that aspect is so different now.
• 13:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But okay, you mentioned something earlier
• 13:50
  Patrick: Yeah
• 13:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): important for us to jump on, which is why you came to this tutoring and coaching naturally.
• 13:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I want to switch us from talking about you as a learner
• 14:01
  Patrick: Sure.
• 14:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): a coach,
• 14:02
  Patrick: Mm-hmm
• 14:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): uh, how did you make that transition?
• 14:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We're going to come back to the cards in a moment.
• 14:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I do have some questions, but first I want to hear how did you make the transition into your executive function coaching company?
• 14:13
  Patrick: Well, in college I did, uh, a dual degree.
• 14:17
  Patrick: I did a theater degree and an English degree with a secondary ed minor.
• 14:21
  Patrick: And so my senior, my last semester of college was spent being a student teacher at a high school.
• 14:29
  Patrick: And, um, I...
• 14:32
  Patrick: So I would, I would work all day at the high school teaching English classes, an acting class, and a stagecraft class.
• 14:39
  Patrick: And then I would, um, go back to college, which was only like a 15-minute drive, and, um, direct a play, um, and hang out with my friends, and grade papers and things like that.
• 14:52
  Patrick: And I, um, I quickly decided I wasn't ready to be a teacher, uh, as a profession, but, um, I...
• 15:03
  Patrick: And I moved to Los Angeles to pursue acting from Chicago.
• 15:07
  Patrick: And when I landed, I discovered through Craigslist that there were many different, um, tutoring agencies, and I had these credentials and, um, and I just applied, and I got a few jobs, and I would get students.
• 15:25
  Patrick: And I worked for Princeton Review, and I worked for some boutique agencies, and I just did a variety of sort of a version of teaching.
• 15:35
  Patrick: And, and then kind of found, naturally landed with one specific agency and working with any student stayed through my way and I, I built up a caseload pretty quick there.
• 15:48
  Patrick: So I was working with junior high and high school students who were, um, struggling a little bit, whether it was managing their organization and, uh, and time and also having a little, um, resistance or, um, I don't know.
• 16:09
  Patrick: What's the word?
• 16:10
  Patrick: Like, they were just...
• 16:11
  Patrick: They didn't love school and they didn't love learning, but they were very bright
• 16:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): When did you make the shift from calling yourself a tutor to calling yourself an executive function coach?
• 16:22
  Patrick: Um, that happened kind of naturally, uh, after probably five or six years of working.
• 16:31
  Patrick: And, uh, at, at this one agency we were called academic coaches and...
• 16:35
  Patrick: Or academic, no, excuse me, we were called academic managers.
• 16:38
  Patrick: And, um, yeah.
• 16:40
  Patrick: So we were helping manage things.
• 16:44
  Patrick: And, uh, and I, and, and I ha- the coaching word made sense in my head.
• 16:50
  Patrick: And then, um, in that process the, the man, the clinician whose agency it was, he was an ed therapist and, um, or trained as a clinic- uh, educational psychologist, and we're- we worked with ed therapists.
• 17:07
  Patrick: And, um, then we would, uh, but ba- basically I would be on my own to kind of do whatever felt natural, and then if I needed support, I would get it.
• 17:18
  Patrick: And, um, and I, when I parted ways with him was around the time, I think it was probably, like, around 2010, 2012, where executive functioning word, was a word I knew, and I knew a few, a little bit about it, and then parents were bringing it to me as well.
• 17:38
  Patrick: And then parents were referring me as, like,"He helps my s- my students with their executive functioning skills."
• 17:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 17:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's so interesting how the industry changes.
• 17:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We were just talking in the, the, our, the Learning Lab had a call this morning.
• 17:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You weren't at.
• 17:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I understand
• 17:57
  Patrick: Well, yeah.
• 17:58
  Patrick: Mm-hmm
• 17:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's okay.
• 18:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, but we were talking a lot about what do we call ourselves?
• 18:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Academic coaches, executive function coaches, something else?
• 18:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What's the overlap between them?
• 18:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and so much of...
• 18:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, we can choose things because of our training.
• 18:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We- or in your case, it sounds like you chose it because parents were naturally using that language to describe what you were doing, and so it just made sense to use the language parents had started calling you
• 18:28
  Patrick: Yeah, I think they didn't have a, um, a, a s- very clear definition of what it meant either.
• 18:37
  Patrick: Uh, so it was a fuzzier term than it is now.
• 18:41
  Patrick: Um, and certainly, um, there's so many aspects and sides to it, so I think a lot of it came down to making plans, teaching students how to make plans and, and stay organized and create systems.
• 18:55
  Patrick: Um, and, and I became an alternative for, I think, families who didn't have the time or, um, their students weren't responding to ed therapy, where they would go once a week to someone's office and kind of do some work, but also have extra work to do or to think about and, like, a new system that they had to try that they didn't necessarily buy into.
• 19:23
  Patrick: And so I became this, um, trying to MacGyver a, a solution for each student
• 19:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Interesting.
• 19:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So that's something I didn't realize, but we have that in common, where I was seeing a pattern.
• 19:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Now, both Patrick and I are in California, the state of California in the US, and over here we have ed therapists.
• 19:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): On the East Coast, they don't have ed therapists.
• 19:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): is a very uniquely either California or West Coast.
• 19:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's fascinating.
• 19:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't really understand why, and if somebody's listening to this and I have something wrong, please correct me.
• 20:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): head over to the Anti-Boring Learning Lab's YouTube channel and comment under this video if you're hearing the audio.
• 20:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, but I had noticed that too, that a lot of students were coming to me because they were-- parents were frustrated with not seeing anything happen skills-wise for school ed therapy sessions.
• 20:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with ed therapy.
• 20:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I think it's there to do real remediation around math or reading or interventions that are needed, and I'm hearing you say that kids felt like it was this whole new layer of homework, and so resented it,
• 20:36
  Patrick: Yeah, I think, I, I, I think s-, I mean, it was, you know, I think because it's like a clinician relationship, it's just different than like,"Here's this guy coming to our..." I was going to see students in person at the time too, and he comes to the house, and he's, he's...
• 20:58
  Patrick: It's a little more relaxed.
• 20:59
  Patrick: He makes jokes, and, like, we'll do a little work.
• 21:02
  Patrick: He'll teach you s- we'll do s- we'll try to come up with a solution, but the work will get done in the process a little bit more than, um, teaching them, like,"This is how you should outline an essay specifically."
• 21:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 21:17
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, interesting.
• 21:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, in a moment when we talk about the biz stuff, I wanna talk a little bit more about that, going to homes versus not going to homes,'cause that's a big transition.
• 21:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I also really want to insert a little bit of the randomness into this interview.
• 21:32
  Patrick: Yeah, please
• 21:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): two talking about you as a coach, would you like card one, two, or three for
• 21:36
  Patrick: go three
• 21:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Great.
• 21:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so that is...
• 21:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Huh.
• 21:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay.
• 21:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Can you point to a specific turning point when you realized your old approach wasn't cutting it anymore?
• 21:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so this is, like, transitioning us into you choosing to come into the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 21:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So was there, like, a moment when you were like,"Huh, I might need something more"?
• 22:00
  Patrick: Um, yeah.
• 22:01
  Patrick: I, well, I was thinking about, um...
• 22:05
  Patrick: Well, now I have to think about this.
• 22:07
  Patrick: I believe I did a Zoom call, like, a, one of your, like, Finals Without Freakouts call.
• 22:15
  Patrick: So it would've been probably about a year ago now.
• 22:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 22:18
  Patrick: And then that percolated through the, the seme- the semester, the summer and semester.
• 22:26
  Patrick: And my son was born in January, and I continued to go to people's homes, um, while, in the first four months that he, that we were being parents.
• 22:37
  Patrick: And I was so tired.
• 22:39
  Patrick: And, and we were not sleeping.
• 22:42
  Patrick: And,
• 22:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 22:43
  Patrick: um, and I was like,"I have to do something different, and I have to go virtual, and I need language to explain how my services can be the same virtually." And I'd already kind of done a lit- I was doing hybrid at that point, so I had a lot of stu- I had students in different parts of Los Angeles, and so I had to go virtual for some based on their schedules and locations and go in person with others.
• 23:13
  Patrick: And I was like,"I have to just do it across the board." And,'cause I wanna be a...
• 23:19
  Patrick: I don't wanna have...
• 23:21
  Patrick: I don't want something to go wrong in my schedule, and now I have to stay at a coffee shop instead of getting back in my car, and I, I want, when I could be home.
• 23:30
  Patrick: And, um, and then that kind of combined with, like, well, if that's the case, I need to make sure what I'm doing in person can work over, over the internet, which I, I already had feelings it did, but I, I was looking for a language, I think, to teach my students in the framework.
• 23:50
  Patrick: So that was the, the anti-boring approach, um, from the Finals Without Freakout.
• 23:55
  Patrick: And I think there was another Rock Your Biz webinar that I watched, and I was like,"Okay, there's a framework here that I can explain to students and parents that will, that's already kind of in line with what I, I feel like I do."
• 24:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's so interesting.
• 24:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I wasn't expecting you to say that.
• 24:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): The transition from going to homes to being fully virtual to match your family life needs and specifically looking for the language.
• 24:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Was it the language to justify f- to families that we're not l- it might feel like a loss, like if I'm not coming to your home anymore and we're
• 24:32
  Patrick: Yeah
• 24:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): there, but what's the language to help say,"This is, this is why and how Zoom coaching is really a useful thing for you"?
• 24:41
  Patrick: Yeah, I think the language for that and, um, and I have students who have worked for me for, like, their entire high school career.
• 24:52
  Patrick: And it- and I, I have become, I think, a bit of a safety blanket for some.
• 24:57
  Patrick: And
• 24:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ah.
• 25:00
  Patrick: And I'm like, once I've gotten involved, I realize, this student could have just come to office hours.
• 25:05
  Patrick: He didn't need me to have a session.
• 25:08
  Patrick: He, just used me as an accountability partner to, um, to get his work done on a, on a Sunday.
• 25:16
  Patrick: Um, and we just kept the schedule going for, for...
• 25:19
  Patrick: But, like, you know, at, in first semester of 12th grade, he didn't really need me, but he also was just like,"No, I, it'll be good." Like, it'll...
• 25:26
  Patrick: It was holding him accountable.
• 25:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 25:30
  Patrick: yeah
• 25:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's expensive.
• 25:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's an expensive accountability partner for them and expensive for you in your life having to deal with Los Angeles traffic and time away from your family.
• 25:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so I can see why it was like,"Oh, wait, there is a different way we could structure this
• 25:45
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 25:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): for everyone maybe."
• 25:46
  Patrick: I've, the, the aspect of my business that has been difficult is because I have these very loyal clients, I, and I, I was like, I don't have a way to graduate them.
• 25:59
  Patrick: And they've, they've, they've invested, so they don't wanna change.
• 26:03
  Patrick: Uh, they don't want many things to change.
• 26:05
  Patrick: And, um, and I thought, oh, the anti-boring approach, I could, that, that could sort of show them, like,"Look, you've graduated.
• 26:15
  Patrick: You don't need me as frequently," or,"You have these, these are all the s- tools that you can see and, and, and have in front of you."
• 26:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): gotten all these tools.
• 26:26
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 26:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): for you
• 26:28
  Patrick: And I can now be here, um, more sporadically, but I th- but I have become a bit of like a,"Oh, I'm nervous about this," and, like, students will say say like, they'll, they'll schedule me, and they'll, they'll be nervous to- about something, and then they'll get in the session and realize,"Oh, this isn't that bad." And I'm just like,"Oh, if you just looked at that this afternoon, a, a lot of, a lot of energy and time..." Yeah.
• 26:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 26:55
  Patrick: So there was, yeah, yeah.
• 26:58
  Patrick: So it was language and also a way of, of sh- demonstrating y- growth, I think
• 27:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 27:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): just, in the interview that I just had with Sarah Ward, she was talking about how sometimes students can offload their emotional regulation to tutors and coaches.
• 27:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uh, so there we go.
• 27:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Here's a perfect example of that, and how, and this is why I love having the business tools alongside our study skills and executive function tools, because we can...
• 27:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, shoot, I was gonna make such a good point, and then I lost the words.
• 27:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Working memory, working memory issues.
• 27:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Wait, say what you just said.
• 27:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What were we saying?
• 27:41
  Patrick: They can offload their emotional regulation onto us, the coaches.
• 27:44
  Patrick: And so like having that with the business
• 27:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 27:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so the structures that we choose
• 27:51
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 27:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): support our business actually also structures that support our students.
• 27:58
  Patrick: Yeah
• 27:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): mindful, not just doing it to try and make money, but if we're mindful about how do we structure this in the best possible way to help students incrementally become more and more self-sufficient and self-regulated, but not too fast, and not, like, if we just dump a bunch of things on them and leave, that's not useful.
• 28:19
  Patrick: Right
• 28:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): also, the year after year after year, I feel better when I'm with Patrick, so I pay Patrick to be in my life.
• 28:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's not useful for their own growth either.
• 28:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And packages specifically versus hourly is one way I think that makes a difference for students.
• 28:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And were you doing hourly before?
• 28:40
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 28:40
  Patrick: I'm still...
• 28:41
  Patrick: I mean, packages will be the, the next step for me this, this fall.
• 28:46
  Patrick: Yeah
• 28:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So that brings us into talking about your goals for your business and Rock Your Biz.
• 28:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So why don't you say a little bit about why is it...
• 28:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What is your understanding so far about packages, and why is that so important y- to you now to switch to?
• 29:02
  Patrick: Um, I, I think the packages give, uh, again, it's like language for the family.
• 29:08
  Patrick: It's a beginning, middle, and end.
• 29:10
  Patrick: And I, and I f- I've always, like, I've...
• 29:15
  Patrick: All of my business has come word of mouth for the most part, and families passing on my name to, families or students passing on my name to other similar families or students.
• 29:25
  Patrick: And, and it's almost shocking that people are just like, have a conversation with me, and then they're just like,"Okay, great." Like, my student will now be in charge of scheduling with you for, at their, at their whim.
• 29:40
  Patrick: Um, and, and indefinitely.
• 29:43
  Patrick: And I have a little guilt about it.
• 29:46
  Patrick: Um, and I talk to the student about, you know, what are our goals and where are we going, and maybe we should try this or that.
• 29:55
  Patrick: And then I've had to put up my own boundaries for my own life of just being like,"You can't schedule me this quickly or cancel this quickly and reschedule." And but it, it's case by case.
• 30:07
  Patrick: So for me, the bundles is like, this is the universal principle, and you don't have to align with it.
• 30:13
  Patrick: That's okay.
• 30:15
  Patrick: Um, but if you do it, I, I think there's a clear beginning, middle, and end, and,
• 30:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 30:20
  Patrick: or at least a s- a point where we all can pause and reflect.
• 30:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 30:26
  Patrick: and s- shockingly, that's not built into the school system, or I haven't found a way to get clients to be like,"Hey, we just survived this sort of triage.
• 30:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right
• 30:37
  Patrick: let's take a pause and let's reconnect." And it's just sort of like
• 30:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 30:40
  Patrick: off the radar.
• 30:41
  Patrick: We'll get back to you in the fall, and then we'll, we'll do this whole cycle again.
• 30:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 30:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So what you've brilliantly painted is something that I've noticed all along, which is when it's by the hour, the focus is on what do I get from you?
• 31:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): When it's by the, I would say package and not bundle.
• 31:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You used the word bundle earlier,
• 31:05
  Patrick: I'm sorry.
• 31:05
  Patrick: Mm-hmm
• 31:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): okay, but I...
• 31:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's a good teaching point.
• 31:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll talk in a moment why not bundle, but just to finish this point.
• 31:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): When we are focusing on the package, they're focused on what do I do within this timeframe alongside you to get myself to this specific goal?
• 31:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's a very different conversation than the hour after hour after
• 31:29
  Patrick: Yeah, it's more concrete, I think, too.
• 31:32
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 31:33
  Patrick: And, and because of the elements of the package, the, their portion of responsibility is kind of in there listed out, like come to office hours or, you know, c- manage your tracker, um, in between our s- like here's, here's all the things that I will expect along the way
• 31:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 31:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And some of the conversation then is, like in the habit tracker that we teach you to do in the Anti-Boring Toolkit, it is, are, am I following my commitments Patrick?
• 32:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And it's, it's not that the kid has to follow their
• 32:07
  Patrick: No
• 32:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): but where our attention is,"Oh, it's been zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero," and then, so at
• 32:15
  Patrick: Yeah
• 32:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): point do we either change our commitments or decide that coaching is not working
• 32:20
  Patrick: Right
• 32:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you're not following them?
• 32:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so it's like a built-in conversation, which can be scary for some coaches,'cause like,"Am I gonna lose, am I gonna lose clients'cause I'm holding them too accountable?"
• 32:30
  Patrick: Right.
• 32:32
  Patrick: Maybe.
• 32:33
  Patrick: Uh, yeah
• 32:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 32:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, but more often than not, you won't lose them.
• 32:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): will just get better at doing the things that they need to get better at.
• 32:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And if you do lose them, there...
• 32:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You will have created such a steady stream of clients because you will have created such a great referral system for yourself so that there's another person who needs you to fit in while this other student is doing whatever they do, getting ready to be motivated to work with you.
• 33:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, why do you think I didn't like the word bundle?
• 33:08
  Patrick: Oh, bundle implies you're getting several different things together and maybe...
• 33:14
  Patrick: I don't know.
• 33:16
  Patrick: That was a guess
• 33:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you're-- sort of.
• 33:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): me, the word bundle, often people will say,"Oh, I'm doing packages, so my hourly fee is 150, but if I, if you buy 10 at once, the, it, it translates to an hourly of like 125 or whatever."
• 33:35
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 33:35
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 33:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And for me, that, that, you're still doing it by the hour.
• 33:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You're just selling 10 hours at a time.
• 33:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So you still have the focus
• 33:46
  Patrick: The hourly.
• 33:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): am I getting, yeah,
• 33:48
  Patrick: Yeah
• 33:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): getting from you, the coach, versus a package is intentionally designed that they can't do the math and figure out how much they're paying you per hour
• 33:59
  Patrick: Right
• 34:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): there's so much they're getting.
• 34:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): They might be getting this online course.
• 34:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, as a certified coach, if you want, you can
• 34:04
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 34:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): the Anti-Boring Student course to your clients.
• 34:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): they're getting that.
• 34:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): They're getting office hours, which is one hour of your time, but you may be serving three to six students during that time.
• 34:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Anyway, we have a whole list in Rock Your Biz of all the things in the packages, but, but that wi- that way they're focused on, yeah, am I making good use of all that is...
• 34:27
  Patrick: Yeah
• 34:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, And often packages are named with whatever the ultimate result is that we're looking for.
• 34:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So they're focused
• 34:36
  Patrick: Right
• 34:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): result am I trying to get.
• 34:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It doesn't have to be grades.
• 34:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It shouldn't be grades, in fact.
• 34:41
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 34:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): but what am I working towards as a student?
• 34:44
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 34:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So what are you excited to build towards?
• 34:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like right now it's just, just you, but well, no,
• 34:55
  Patrick: Well, no
• 34:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): to try and get...
• 34:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Give everybody that
• 34:59
  Patrick: I, um, so when I made the transition to being fully virtual and I, um, had these conver- I had a few clients that m- wanted to have someone come in person.
• 35:15
  Patrick: And I said,"Oh, I have..." I be- I had been interviewing, so I, when I was not sleeping in the first months, my parents even came into town so I could do, or so they could see their grandchild.
• 35:27
  Patrick: But then I did interviews with people o- over, over Zoom.
• 35:31
  Patrick: And, um, I was
• 35:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): them in your business, interviews to
• 35:35
  Patrick: Yeah, to hire them, to have, uh, to have subject tutors or, um, anyone...
• 35:41
  Patrick: Like, I was looking for people who already had experience, and I was trying to replicate a system.
• 35:48
  Patrick: And I had a-- I found some good people, and I paired them up with students, and most of it went well.
• 35:55
  Patrick: Um, there were a couple fires to put out and a couple, um, disappoint, disappointing, uh, instances.
• 36:02
  Patrick: But overall, you're like,"Oh, okay, great.
• 36:05
  Patrick: This-- I could keep doing this as, um, as a way of building my company." Um, and, uh, and then the State of California informed me that the, I can't structure my business that way.
• 36:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's right
• 36:23
  Patrick: So I had to convert people to become employees instead of independent contractors, which I could still probably do and may continue to do in some instances.
• 36:34
  Patrick: But it ultimately became, like, a realization like that's a lot of work to be just kind of an overseer.
• 36:41
  Patrick: And, and what I got out of...
• 36:44
  Patrick: I really enjoy the coaching part, and I really enjoyed going through the Anti-Boring Learning Lab and working with students to-- or using it and, and envisioning using it with my, with other students.
• 36:59
  Patrick: Um, so I, um, so now I'm kind of transitioning back to one and maybe down the...
• 37:09
  Patrick: And I think that will allow me to create the foundation and the sort of the systems for how this is how everything go-- this is how everything will work with the services part, and that would allow me, if I want down the road, to bring on a person to coach virtually alongside me or as I cont- as I hopefully expand, um, or do group classes or something like that.
• 37:32
  Patrick: I'd have a, a, a system to show them instead of just what I thought I could do, which was you have independent contractors, you can't train them anyways, so, um, you gotta just find someone who's really good and just like kind of hope it works out.
• 37:48
  Patrick: And it did, but, um, it's, it's not-- I've-- I think it might as well just have an employee or build my business so I can do it on my own and it's enough.
• 38:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And there we have an increasing number of people in the lab who have a few coaches who work, I hate saying underneath them, but what else does one say?
• 38:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Who work inside their business.
• 38:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Maybe you
• 38:15
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 38:16
  Patrick: Yeah
• 38:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): who use the lab to train their new folks.
• 38:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But it is, it is interesting to figure out all the different ways to work with, uh, whatever the tax laws are to make sure that we're being but also respectful of the people we're working with
• 38:32
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 38:33
  Patrick: And I think I was, um, like trying to jump, as you say, in the rock your biz, like trying to jump levels a little bit too quickly, and I was definitely putting the cart before the horse, which is, uh, a...
• 38:46
  Patrick: something I should probably do more often, just go for it and take action and figure it out as we go.
• 38:52
  Patrick: But at the same time, it's like, well, you will have to then deal with the when it doesn't work out and, and, and make something wor- you know, find a solution there, so
• 39:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Which you did do.
• 39:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You applied
• 39:06
  Patrick: Yeah
• 39:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): skill you developed as a teenager of sort of diving in and sticking with
• 39:10
  Patrick: Mm-hmm.
• 39:10
  Patrick: Mm-hmm
• 39:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and it got you.
• 39:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You realized you couldn't do it, and so you backed off.
• 39:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's like you pivoted really well, and now you're putting the building blocks in place to invite it back in in a more s- strong and structured way
• 39:23
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 39:23
  Patrick: And I think, like, I've already read through the Rock Your Biz materials, and I've started in on s- some of it, and it's, you know, it's having that...
• 39:33
  Patrick: I had no idea how I was gonna market these coaches who worked for me or market myself and differentiate that.
• 39:40
  Patrick: So it's like, well, let's get crystal clear on what I do and who I am and why and who should work with me.
• 39:46
  Patrick: And then that, I think that will, the solutions for who should I then hire to work with me or how would we go about structuring that will be m- clearer and will present themselves
• 40:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 40:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Has it, has it...
• 40:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you feel like you're getting the answers that you needed inside the Rock Your Biz curriculum about h- about how to put all that in place?
• 40:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's okay to say no, by the way, if you're not getting the answers that you need
• 40:15
  Patrick: Um, well, I...
• 40:16
  Patrick: No, I think I am.
• 40:17
  Patrick: I'm- I'll, I'll tell you where I'm at right now.
• 40:19
  Patrick: In the first module, I'm, I'm about to write my, um, or I wrote a rough dr- a shitty rough draft of my outreach letter.
• 40:29
  Patrick: And, um, and so I'm nearing the end of module one.
• 40:33
  Patrick: So I, I wrote that and, you know, thinking about my story, uh, something you said in the end of the, I think one of the learning lab, maybe it was...
• 40:44
  Patrick: Oh, maybe it was one of the first videos in the Rock Your Biz about, you know, telling people who you are, and that's, that's part of it.
• 40:53
  Patrick: And y- students, and this is what I've always believed, but students need someone to listen and, and just be there for them.
• 41:00
  Patrick: Like, parents will say, like,"You must be so smart to do all these subjects." And it's like, well, part of that is repetition.
• 41:08
  Patrick: And like, and I've, I've joked in the past, like when we had textbooks, I was like,"I can read a little faster.
• 41:12
  Patrick: I know where to look, like for the
• 41:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah,
• 41:14
  Patrick: answers." But mostly it's just like I'm having a relationship and trying to be the teacher that, or professor in college that inspired me to work a little harder, you know?
• 41:27
  Patrick: Or to, to be more creative or dig a little deeper.
• 41:31
  Patrick: Um, and so, and now I'm gonna be percolating on like, oh yeah, how can I bring other parts of myself to, to the marketing of this and the explanation of this and then, um, the special sauce, if you will.
• 41:48
  Patrick: Um, and differ- and that'll differentiate a little bit from the other services that are around Los Angeles and on the internet
• 41:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And then it'll get a little complicated again,'cause once you've figured that out for yourself and you have others working
• 42:06
  Patrick: Right
• 42:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you, how you, do you try and find other people who have that aspect of what you have?
• 42:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Or do you...
• 42:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Anyway, that'll be another interesting
• 42:15
  Patrick: Yeah
• 42:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But first, you just get to master this layer.
• 42:19
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 42:19
  Patrick: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, i- I'll talk to you again in five or six months
• 42:28
  Patrick: Yeah
• 42:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): done with the Rock Your Biz accountability cohort.
• 42:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so just to, for people who don't know, we have an add-on to the lab that is the general Rock Your Biz program, and Patrick's been in that for a while, and he has access to the course and calls and all of that.
• 42:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But he's about to start the accountability cohort, which is a very structured four and a half to five-month process to work through everything, to get support, to have access to me, and so he's just starting that.
• 42:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So Patrick, where do you hope you are on the other side when we, when I come bring you back in to talk to you again?
• 43:07
  Patrick: Um, I hope that, well, I, I guess I hope that I will do it all.
• 43:13
  Patrick: I'm a, I, like I said, I'm a student who follows directions.
• 43:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 43:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm
• 43:19
  Patrick: so there is a part of the program that, um, is bringing up resistance or bringing up like a little bit of, I don't, what, uh, the word is like apprehension or just like,"Oh, really?
• 43:32
  Patrick: Am I gonna have..." Like, how, like p- the being seen, the putting myself, doing this work and making it seen is going to be, uh, present some stress.
• 43:44
  Patrick: But I'm also, I think I'm just overthinking it, and I just should just sort of jump in and, and, um...
• 43:52
  Patrick: So in six months, I think I'll have a very clear, all this language that I've been looking for this for this whole time.
• 44:00
  Patrick: This is what I do.
• 44:02
  Patrick: This is the type of students who work well, who I work well with.
• 44:05
  Patrick: These are the results I know I can show you, and these are the tools I can show you.
• 44:11
  Patrick: And, um, and then I don't have to feel any little guilt about if people work with me or without me,'cause I know, like, that I believe in this system.
• 44:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Hmm.
• 44:26
  Patrick: and, and so then I, I think by in six months, there will be a lot more of me showing off that work.
• 44:34
  Patrick: And, um, and I'd like, I'd l- that, that's the challenge I have to myself, to be putting myself out there in different ways, um, and looking for...
• 44:47
  Patrick: Because I already have students, um, and I'm, I've, I'm pretty confident that I will continue to have students, um, I wanna push myself in those other areas of the marketing and the ex- where other areas to expand
• 45:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 45:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's so interesting'cause as you were talking, I was like,"Gosh, you're an actor.
• 45:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Why are
• 45:08
  Patrick: I know.
• 45:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): about putting yourself out there?" But then my next thought was, and tell me if you agree with this, like, well, when you're an actor, you get to play a character.
• 45:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You don't have to actually be your full self.
• 45:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You, you're, you're skilled at taking on somebody else's, and of course, you use parts of yourself, but you're, it's behind a mask in some way,
• 45:28
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 45:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): it's not now?
• 45:31
  Patrick: Yeah, I think that's, you know, there's part of, there- when you say you're an actor, and it's interesting, it's like what people bring their assumptions to, I guess, too.
• 45:40
  Patrick: Because when I say like,"I'm a tutor," or people are like,"Oh, you're my tutor," or whatever, and it's like,"I'm an academic coach," or,"I'm a this," or,"I'm..." These are all of the things I have.
• 45:50
  Patrick: Um, and for a long time I've, and I've worked as a, as a coach with families who are in the entertainment business, and I've kept like church and state about my, my personal life and my coaching.
• 46:07
  Patrick: And, um, it's harder to do that now than ever, so it's sort of like, well, did that serve me all these years?
• 46:14
  Patrick: Not necessarily.
• 46:16
  Patrick: So might as well try to bring the, the part of me that's willing to look ridiculous and fail on stage or
• 46:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 46:26
  Patrick: on camera to my coaching.
• 46:29
  Patrick: Yeah
• 46:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm so glad I asked you that'cause that's beautiful.
• 46:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm glad.
• 46:36
  Patrick: Yeah, I think we're just trying to merge it all together, so
• 46:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 46:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We're trying to be whole people like we, like we offer to students.
• 46:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You get to be a whole person at school.
• 46:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You don't have to mask and hide parts of yourself away.
• 46:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You don't have to be perfect.
• 46:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You, you can be sloppy and messy and have all of your passions, but also work hard to do things you don't love to do, and y- you get to be all of it.
• 47:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, but we have to work on that regulation piece about our difficulty with
• 47:07
  Patrick: Well, like, uh, Yeah.
• 47:10
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 47:10
  Patrick: And it's usually things, you know, it's, it's ripping the Band-Aid off.
• 47:15
  Patrick: Like, the, the, um, anxiety around the act is usually worse than the act itself
• 47:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 47:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 47:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, we'll see.
• 47:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I'll,
• 47:25
  Patrick: In my experience.
• 47:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): there will be
• 47:26
  Patrick: Yeah
• 47:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): cohort of people to be with you.
• 47:30
  Patrick: Yes, I am, I'm looking forward to chatting with more people'cause I'm like,"Oh, I have questions already." Yeah
• 47:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes.
• 47:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, a side note, that's just another reason why I wanted to make this video is because, um, we're looking for more people to be in the cohort with you.
• 47:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And look how awesome Patrick is.
• 47:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And we have, we, we usually have about five people in the cohort to keep it small so my eyes can stay on everybody, and everybody can stay with each other and really support each other.
• 48:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, so out there, who wants to be one of Patrick's amazing cohort members?
• 48:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I bet there are a few of you who do.
• 48:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So come on over to theantiboringlearninglab.com Check us out.
• 48:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, lastly, I was having so much fun chatting with you, I forgot about
• 48:22
  Patrick: Let me see.
• 48:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): card
• 48:23
  Patrick: Round three.
• 48:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): one more round.
• 48:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, uh, this one is about you as a member of what I like to call the Lab fam.
• 48:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So since you've been in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, would you like-- Actually, you get, I'm gonna give you more than just three choices.
• 48:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): get to choose one to six.
• 48:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What number do you want?
• 48:46
  Patrick: Five
• 48:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Hmm.
• 48:49
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, okay.
• 48:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So what did you believe about coaching before you joined the lab that you've since had to unlearn?
• 49:00
  Patrick: Believe about coaching before I joined the land that I've since had to unlearn?
• 49:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 49:10
  Patrick: Hmm, that's a really good question.
• 49:12
  Patrick: Um You know, I guess I thought I was the only one going through this.
• 49:21
  Patrick: Like, the struggles in my business, the, um, the ups and downs and emotions that go with each student and their, and their families and, uh, the trials and tribulations and the, um, and the feeling of, like, doing more and doing, and doing enough.
• 49:44
  Patrick: And so joining the lab, I saw so many clinicians e- from just from our book clubs to our Zoom calls, and just realizing how other coaches are doing this and how much they care, and that we are all trying to find ways to kind of manage ourselves and our practice because we are very empathic people and, um, and compassionate and, uh...
• 50:13
  Patrick: But also have, you know, we have lives, too.
• 50:16
  Patrick: So it's like everyone's struggling in- with that to some degree, like trying to find the best way to be the best coach you can be and also be a whole human and, um, and not let it...
• 50:31
  Patrick: You know.
• 50:31
  Patrick: So that was really encouraging to be like, oh, wow, e- this, this alone was worth it to know, okay, there's, um, there's, there's other people who are thinking about their job all the time, too, and their students all the time, too.
• 50:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You are, you really are.
• 50:52
  Patrick: Yeah
• 50:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): not alone.
• 50:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You had to unlearn fantasy that you are all alone in this
• 50:57
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 50:58
  Patrick: The, you know, I think like because it's, because it's virtual and it's one-on-one and, and then it's texting with parents and stuff, and there's a whole range of personalities, there's like, you can kind of...
• 51:14
  Patrick: I c- I've made myself into a martyr at times, you know?
• 51:18
  Patrick: And, and
• 51:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yep
• 51:20
  Patrick: it's not h- healthy and not helpful to my f- you know, and I don't love like venting to my wife about, you know, a family or whatever.
• 51:31
  Patrick: Um, and so it's like, oh, uh, there's this group of people I can, I can process with.
• 51:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Come vent.
• 51:39
  Patrick: then,
• 51:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): with
• 51:40
  Patrick: you know, yeah, yeah.
• 51:43
  Patrick: And, and there will be feedback.
• 51:46
  Patrick: There will be tools.
• 51:47
  Patrick: There will be thoughts and ideas, and how much more productive that is than just sitting in it or giving it to a friend or a family member who, uh, has d- can't really understand all of the nuance about it because they're, they weren't there and they, yeah
• 52:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): right.
• 52:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, I'm so glad you're, uh, a member.
• 52:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I suspect you're gonna be a lab member longer than just the Rock Your Biz program.
• 52:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You
• 52:17
  Patrick: I think so, yeah.
• 52:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): a
• 52:19
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 52:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): No pressure, but it seems like you're really part of the lab fam already, I think.
• 52:26
  Patrick: Good
• 52:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And for those who are listening who are already members of the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, Patrick and I also started a discussion about how we might, uh, teach a little improv,
• 52:37
  Patrick: Yes
• 52:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): an improv, improv games and structures to support.
• 52:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, what would you say...
• 52:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, I have my own thoughts, but what would your hope be?
• 52:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): They would be, um, improvisational practices that, fill in the blank
• 52:52
  Patrick: Um, that celebrate the imperfectness of coaching and remind us to play
• 53:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 53:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yes, and doing that with coaches first.
• 53:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): One of the things I find is coaches always wanna find the thing they're gonna do with their student.
• 53:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And yes, improvising, like improv games and structures are certainly wonderful to do with our clients as well, and I'm actually pulling out a bunch of research around a- how, how it actually helps students with specific executive function.
• 53:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So that's gonna be coming on my blog sometime soon.
• 53:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But we start with ourselves first, and we need to play first.
• 53:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So
• 53:31
  Patrick: But we've got
• 53:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm excited to play
• 53:32
  Patrick: these people daily who try to save themselves Yes
• 53:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): right.
• 53:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll talk to you in six months.
• 53:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll see how far you got.
• 53:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll see what you're celebrating.
• 53:41
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll see what you're not celebrating.
• 53:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm sure there'll be a combination of both, and I'm just so grateful for you starting your process of showing up as yourself here with our podcast
• 53:54
  Patrick: Thank you, Gretchen
• 53:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 53:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, oh, wait, but tell people where to find you.
• 53:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What's your website?
• 53:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What's your...
• 54:00
  Patrick: Um, my website, which will probably be, be overhauled this, in the next six months as well.
• 54:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So do you not wanna
• 54:08
  Patrick: Oh,
• 54:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): yet?
• 54:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you
• 54:09
  Patrick: no, no, I could share it.
• 54:10
  Patrick: Sure, why not?
• 54:11
  Patrick: It's Quinlan Tu- quinlantutoring.com.
• 54:14
  Patrick: That's what it is right now.
• 54:15
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 54:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Q-Q-U-I
• 54:20
  Patrick: Yeah.
• 54:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): There you
• 54:21
  Patrick: Patrick Quinlan
• 54:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): There you go.
• 54:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I am antiboringlearninglab.com, and if you want to have a free dip into some resources that Patrick has just finished working through in his certification process, you can, uh, go to that antiboringlearninglab.com/resources and sign up for our free library where you can learn about the study cycle and the cognitive overload mini lecture all kinds of things.
• 54:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So head on over there.
• 54:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And oh my gosh, have a great vacation
• 54:49
  Patrick: Thank you.
• 54:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Patrick.
• 54:51
  Patrick: Thank you.
• 54:56
  Patrick: Have an excellent summer