Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / How to Use AI Agents For Business

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How to Use AI Agents For Business · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

0:00
Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to another episode of Chatting With The Experts, where I speak with
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fantastic, phenomenal women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
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Today is no exception.
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And our title is Onboarding Your Digital Employee.
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We'll be talking about security and guardrails for AI agents
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My guest, who will join me in a minute, is the founder and CEO of
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Nexora Strategy Consulting, and she builds AI operating systems.
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A fun fact about her is that she is a 2024 Guinness World Record holder,
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and she's had 15 years of experience driving innovation and transformation
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as a software and cloud engineer.
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She's also an AI consultant and technology infrastructure leader.
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Wow.
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She has led global engineering teams and has helped several small to mid-size
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corporate business organizations leverage AI, cloud, and emerging technologies
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for scalability and efficiency.
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Oh, my gosh, her bio is so impressive.
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So what I'm gonna do is invite her in to the show.
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So welcome, Jennifer Ponder, to Chatting with the Experts.
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Wow.
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Hi, I'm so excited to be here with you, Paula.
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Oh, my gosh.
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I could read your bio over and over again.
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It's so impressive.
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I love the part about being a 2024, Guinness Book Record holder.
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That is fantastic.
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Well, thank you.
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Yeah.
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It's definitely been something I will say, as a little girl who has enjoyed tech all
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her life and made it to that goal, and just going through, writing that cloud
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script and going through that particular, just competition and just reaching that,
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that height, it was something phenomenal.
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it really stretched me.
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So excited to be here with you today and sharing great
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information with your community.
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Oh, my word.
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Did I leave anything out?
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Because I told you your bio is impressive.
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I will say this.
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Other than, you know, my love for technology, also too my background has
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been in, the nonprofit space as well, helping to, you know, really excite and
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empower teens and, you know, just youth and young adults with technology as well,
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because they are the next generation.
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So one of the things that I have been happy to do, as a program
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director and also as a facilitator for software engineering courses
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as well is to help young people.
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Because that's what it's all about, to support them.
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Because, as we know, the technology landscape is changing, and we want to
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help to build that talent pipeline.
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So that's something, you know, that's been near and dear to my heart.
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I love that you're helping young people because young people are our future.
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The young adults, as I like to call them, are our future.
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Yes.
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And, as we talked about offline, AI is here and it's the future.
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Yes.
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So helping them understand, grasp it, and know about it is something
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that I'm happy that you're doing.
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Definitely.
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It's a joy of mine.
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All right.
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So one of the things I know we're gonna talk about is AI agents because
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offline I was saying to you that as a small business owner, um, huh, AI is
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something that I've had to learn, embrace.
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And every day I'm hearing something new about AI, and then I remember reading up
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about AI agents and I was like, "What?
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Yet another thing?" So, you know, when I met you and realized what you
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do, I was like, "Can you come talk to us a bit about, especially as small
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business owners, about what to do, how to feel safe, how to feel empowered
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as we surge along in this AI-enhanced world, and to know what we're doing
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or what we're not doing right?"
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So yes,
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help us.
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Help me.
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Yes, definitely.
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Um, Paula, one of the things I told you about my company, I consult, you
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know, small and mid-sized businesses.
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Mm-hmm.
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One of the things that I learned early on in my software engineering path
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was that there were a lot of small business owners back when I was doing
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my apprenticeship, they may not could have afforded, you know, an entire IT
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department of team of developers or a CTO.
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And so I thought, "What if I lent my services to them?" Mm. And so that's
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what I started to do, and that's no different from what I do in my
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company, because AI, think about it, it just came onto the scene.
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A lot of people are still trying to figure out how to deal with it, how to-
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Mm … move through this time, because I know there are so many worries out
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there, but as we know, AI is not going anywhere, and we have to work with it.
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But the one thing I want people to know, we can be responsible and ethical
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AI drivers and leaders of change, and we can also secure our systems.
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We just have to have the right guardrails in place.
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And, now with all, the digital employees that are on the scene and
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reducing time and building revenue into your company, you still wanna add
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that extra layer of security because, as we know, Paula, there's been so
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many things on the news about AI agents going rogue, what's happening.
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They're getting out of control in certain places.
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But I don't want that to scare anyone.
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I just want to empower you today to think about, what do you have in place?
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What are the applications you're currently using?
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How are you using this technology?
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But share with you some ways that you can help to secure your applications.
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And really help you to get into the mindset, let's think about
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safety and guardrails first.
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We can use this.
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Let's not be scared of the technology, but let's also empower ourselves to
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stay safe, and use our best judgment when using AI agents in our companies.
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All right.
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So I hear that.
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So as a small business owner, even someone who's not a small business
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owner, as a regular user, because non-business owners, people at home,
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people, retirees, everyone's using AI.
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like, let's say I am at home, I'm a caregiver, whatever I may be doing.
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What, okay, I'm gonna roll back on that.
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Let's start with a small business owner and then we can expand to anybody who's
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probably at home, retired, or whatever.
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As a business owner, what would you say the first thing to do for an AI agent?
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Would you say give it a job description, before you turn on an agent?
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I would say yeah…
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would that be the first thing?
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Yeah, that would be the first thing.
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Let's make sure we're giving it a job description, because think about
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it, this is a digital employee.
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Okay.
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You know, with a new employee that comes on, think about a human employee.
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Mm-hmm.
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You wouldn't give it access to your passwords, give it the company credit
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card or all of that first, now, would you, and just leave it alone?
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No, let's give it a job description, right?
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Let's put down what we want it to do, what it cannot do, and things that it totally
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cannot access without human approval.
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So let's put it down on paper first so we can see that, and make it
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a part of our standard operating procedures and our guidelines first.
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So you can write down a quick two sentences, what
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do you want it to do, right?
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What if it's your receptionist and concierge?
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Okay, it can book appointments on the calendar and send the
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client a appointment reminder.
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It cannot take any payments.
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I'm just thinking through this with you, just to give you an example here.
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And it cannot do anything such as refunds or, just going into any type of protected
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information without a human in the loop.
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We wanna make sure that always a human is in the loop.
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So job description, first thing you wanna do.
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Okay.
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So give it a job description, just like you'd give a human employee.
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yes.
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Very good then.
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And I was gonna say too, onto that job description, make sure also within
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that you are letting your team know.
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Because if you're not a solopreneur, we wanna make sure that we are including
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everyone, because this is how your team is gonna get best trained with dealing
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with digital employees, you know?
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What I find is there's a lot of, you know, misalignment when you have
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some team members know about AI, some team members can handle a agent.
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We wanna make sure that all team members are aware and on the same
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page of the security measures and of the job descriptions of the
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agents that we're putting in place.
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That's helpful.
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So no matter how small your team is, whether it's one or two or more,
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let them know about the new… yeah, like onboarding a new employee.
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Do the same thing with an AI agent.
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Let your team know.
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Introduce them, the AI agent to your team, in other words.
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Yes.
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and that way, if only one person's using it, you know, what if
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that one person gets locked out?
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That password, something happens, and only one person has access.
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That's not gonna be good for the team.
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So we wanna make sure everybody knows.
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Now, only certain team members now have access to the agent as well.
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Someone who may be, not dealing with, you know, operations, you may not wanna
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give them access to the agent, but they still need to be aware of agents
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on the team because there's gonna be some people who have, those permissions
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that are gonna deploy the agent, look after the agent, monitor the log, see
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what's going on in the background.
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You know, we wanna make sure as well that we are setting permissions
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for, as we do employees, our human employees, we're setting permissions.
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And that's the next thing we'll get into, I'm sure, shortly here about, really
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what's the next steps as far as protecting your other information and applications.
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right.
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'Cause that was gonna be the next question.
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What about privileges?
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You know, because every agent, every, like an employee, we may all be employees,
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but some people are gonna have the key to my office, and some are not.
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So does that, I mean, apply when it comes to the AI agent as well?
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It does.
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It does.
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Because what I always like to share with business owners, you don't wanna
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give your agent access to everything.
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As I used the example before, if you have your agent that is an agent that
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books appointments on your calendar, okay, this particular agent has only
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access to a certain calendar and maybe certain information that could
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be a client's name and email only to send them appointment reminders.
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Now, when it starts getting into the settings, you know, where you
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go into settings to use connectors to connect your AI agents, make
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sure you are careful about that.
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Do you wanna have certain emails or certain, like if you have QuickBooks
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for, managing, you know, your accounts receivables and things like that, do you
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want your AI agent to access those things?
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Let's think about that first, even as a next step under the job description,
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but we wanna make sure that we're always sandboxing our agents as well.
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And what I mean by that, you wanna make sure that you have a, a folder set
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aside that only your agent can work in.
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Also, you wanna have a helper folder, so if there's any data or any, forms or
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documents that the agent needs to work through, like your company SOPs, because
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your agent may be writing some type of documentation, blogs, or PR statements
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for you, but you wanna make sure that you are checking behind the agent as well.
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But I always say you wanna separate your agent so that it's only working in
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sandbox folders, because if you're giving your agent access to email, calendars,
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tax information, it can really get away from you and start to doing a whole lot.
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So this keeps guardrails in so you can monitor it in the folders where you need
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it to be, and only granting access to the applications that you want it to have.
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If you're using, of course, I know, Paula, we've talked about it, Calendly
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and Zoom and setting appointments for you, but, you know, you wanna make sure
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that you're always checking behind it.
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And so I always empower business owners, do a two-week pilot program, right?
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So when you're giving it these permissions, this is helpful for you
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to know, okay, what did the agent miss?
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What is it doing?
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What did it process?
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How did that work out?
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Okay, if this worked well, let's add one more thing in, or
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let's add another application.
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We don't have to give it a whole lot of work at one time.
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We can monitor it progressively.
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Okay.
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So now we talk about privileges, but for most small business owners, we
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talked about this offline how COVID made a lot of small business owners,
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it created a lot of small business owners, and it created, made small
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business owners their own IT departments.
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We chuckled about that.
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Without any training, you know?
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Mm-hmm.
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And so now we hear about giving least privilege access.
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Some of us, I'm gonna include myself in it just for the sake
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of making things all equal.
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So we have, we may have, like, software.
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We don't even know, you know, the back ends of the software.
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We're assuming that, 'cause there's so many things you have
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to give access to, privilege to.
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You don't really know the fine print.
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How do we know that we are given least privileged access?
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How do we know?
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Is it through a prompt?
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Is it through, like, actually going into settings of the particular software
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that we're giving it privilege to?
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Am I asking too many questions?
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Does that make sense?
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No.
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This is great.
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This is great because what you wanna do, you wanna make sure you're
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going into the settings, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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You wanna make sure that you are only checking the boxes
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for what it needs to do.
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I always say have a password protection, a password manager.
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So if you need to keep safe your API keys, how your applications talk
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to one another, any, like I said, private, passwords or anything, you
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can keep that in that password manager.
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But I look at it like this, and if some of your audience may be cloud users, IAM
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is where you protect these type of things.
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You can give it its own password to access certain applications
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if you're in a cloud environment.
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Even if you're just, like you said, a small business owner that you're doing
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everything on your own, make sure in these applications you're going into settings.
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You're only using these applications, using that particular agent with the
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application and what you need it to do.
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Because least privilege, that's gonna help you and help that agent to still
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have guardrails and still stay grounded in the particular work that it needs to do.
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So I'll give you an example.
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A lot of times if we are going into, I'll just use Cloud Cowork, for example,
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and you look at all the connectors now, and MCPs are everywhere now.
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And think of that as just kind of like an adapter, how AI can talk
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to, the different applications these days, the plugins, to be able to
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work with your information, right?
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And so when you think about that, you're like, "Oh, wow, I can connect
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up to all these applications," but what data is getting out there?
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So when you think about the applications, you wanna make sure that, okay,
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if we go into settings, let's only check the boxes for what it needs.
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Also, the agent has its own particular password.
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It's not using passwords of an administrator or any,
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ones of your human workforce.
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That way, this is another way that provides you with a step-by-step
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log and monitoring of when the agent logged in, what did it do.
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It's giving you logged activity so you can keep that step by step.
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So we always wanna make sure zero trust is the first line of defense.
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And what that means, it's not saying you can't trust your agent, but let's
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just make sure at first we are giving it the least amount of privileges
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first so it's not going into different folders, that you don't know about.
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And in the world of software, you know, we know zero trust as this
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is our least amount of privilege.
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This is the height of what you can do and what you can't do early on.
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So we wanna make sure we keep that top of mind, is always just give it its
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own password, give it its own set of instructions, and also when we're going
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in the applications on the back end, we're making sure within settings that
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we are only checking the boxes for what the agents, they can and cannot do.
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And keeping that log available for your team members as well.
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And if you're a solopreneur, just keep it as a guide, one of your SOPs
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when you're working with whether it's a chief of staff agent, your sales
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agent, marketing agent, and I know we'll get into that later, but just all
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of your agents need to have separated security standards and procedures.
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All right.
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Those of you in the audience, when she says marketing angels,
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agents I mean, and sales agents, she means AI marketing agents.
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Yes
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… AI sales agents.
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She's not talking about humans now.
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We're talking AI.
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So you've got to listen carefully, because a lot of small business owners are getting
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into this, and you've got to be vigilant.
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You've got to pay attention.
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This is not to scare you, this is just to inform you, because I'm learning too.
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I am learning too.
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And as I mentioned a few minutes ago, and as you said, a lot of the AI
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models are getting updated regularly more frequently than before, and
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they all have all these plugins.
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Even the plugins, you need to check, as you mentioned, I think, a few
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minutes ago, you need to go check the settings of those plugins before
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you give your agent access to it.
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Because some of these plugins, when you look at the settings, they are training.
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They're using your data to train.
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Am I correct or not?
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Yes, but they're in settings in ChatGPT and Claude, and if even if you're using
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other models, you can go into the settings and click the lever, you know, you can
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toggle it off to not train on your data.
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And here's another best practice I always tell anybody.
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Personal health information, any Social Security numbers, date of birth, just
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please leave that out of your AI.
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I know some people have been going in and getting information about their
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healthcare and things of that nature.
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Now, do that at your own risk, but I don't really share that
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that is a best way to go.
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So far you still, this is still your thought partner.
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We always wanna know that AI is still AI.
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It has the ability to hallucinate.
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It has the ability to get things wrong.
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Let's make sure that we are using it in that way as our thought partner.
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Now, you can give it information about your business and, you know, different
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things that you are working on.
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But let's make sure that we're not putting our address in, any personal
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tax information, date of birth, Social Security numbers, things of that nature.
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That also helps you to stay safe, other than, toggling it
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off not to train on your data.
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Okay.
20:35
All right.
20:36
What about, okay, some of the plugins that we're connecting with,
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that we may be connecting with Google Drive, we may be connecting-
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Mm-hmm … with LinkedIn, we may be connecting with Salesforce, et cetera.
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It's imperative that we go look at the settings of those ones as well.
20:52
Definitely.
20:52
'Cause a lot of them have their own AIs as well.
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And it's one thing that you can think, "Okay, I just turn on the
21:01
toggle for this and it's fine." No, you always wanna go back periodically
21:05
and look at those settings also.
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And if there are reports or different things that you're running, that are
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current, make sure to keep checking those.
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But if you're no longer using them, disconnect it.
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I would say disconnect it from your agent.
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Make sure your agent is logged out of it.
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Make sure you're logged out of it.
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And anything that, you know, that can clear the path.
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Because if you, the last time you used the application may have been a year
21:31
ago, and you notice, you go back and say,
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just got a email update," or, "I got pinged about something that happened
21:38
with my agent," and you're like, "I haven't used this application in
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over a year." that's gonna be quite scary because you don't know what
21:46
happened and what didn't happen.
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And it's not to say that something… I don't wanna scare
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anybody that something happened.
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It's just you wanna always keep top of mind, what is your AI agent accessing?
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And just even before you get to the agent piece of it, if you're not
21:59
currently using agents, but what is that application accessing about me?
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What data is it finding out on the back end?
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So we always wanna make sure that if there's any applications that we're
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connected to or we're not using anymore, we've discontinued our subscription,
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let's just make sure we cancel it, make sure we go into our own settings
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in C Drive, and make sure that any connections have been disconnected.
22:26
Good point.
22:27
Good point, Jennifer.
22:29
Yes.
22:29
Keep checking because things are getting smarter.
22:32
Yes.
22:33
Things are getting smarter, smarter.
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Okay, let's go back again to our agents.
22:41
As a small business owner, you talked about a probation period for AI agent.
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So as you said, test it out for about two weeks and see how it works.
22:51
Right.
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Or whatever.
22:53
Do you have… Just thinking probation, yeah.
22:57
Like we would do with a human employee, correct?
23:00
yes, definitely.
23:01
Because what you wanna do is fine-tune that agent, right?
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You wanna make sure, just like how you would with a employee, when you're
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looking at, okay, when they start, they may need some guidance, right?
23:12
They may need some things that, "Okay, I see you did this well, but
23:16
let's work on refining your process here. Let's work on it." And it
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would be the same for a AI agent.
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Let's think about, what are we giving it access to.
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And that's why I said, you wanna go through, when you're giving it the
23:27
job description, let's write out what it can actually do, what it cannot
23:32
do, and what it should never touch.
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And so the things that you give it access to during this pilot, and
23:38
test probationary period, okay, look at how well did it work.
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what did it do wrong that you didn't want it to do?
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Okay, let's change the trajectory.
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Did it access anything that you didn't want it to access?
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And also look, check the logs.
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What is it accessing?
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Was it correctly, you know, did it deploy well?
23:59
You know, how it's working out.
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And so that doesn't mean after the two-week probationary period, if
24:05
you want to stop using it, you can.
24:08
But if you want to, keep using agents, because now we know, and in my
24:12
company as well, I set up multi-agent systems, multi-agent operating
24:17
systems now, and we know agents are a thing now that's in the workforce.
24:22
Whereas you had maybe 10 to 15 years ago, we have workforces of 10 to
24:27
15, 20 or more, human employees on a team, now you're gonna see there's
24:33
agents and human employees on a team working together simultaneously.
24:38
So we wanna always keep that top of mind that, we don't have to just
24:42
totally do away with the agents.
24:44
We wanna make sure we keep refining them, but putting those
24:47
guardrails in safely first.
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And so that's why I say it's good to do a pilot with them
24:51
first, see how they're working.
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Make sure they are accessing the correct things and they're not moving, out of the
24:57
scope of what you want them to do, because the agents are getting smarter, right?
25:02
Because the models when they first came out, and I'll just give you
25:05
this example here, ChatGPT got released November of 2022, right?
25:10
And so along that time when models were coming along, they may have had
25:14
updates every three or so months, and that started to speed up to two
25:18
months, and one month, and every week.
25:20
And I like to give the analogy, it's like a tennis match now.
25:24
There's an update here and there, and I'm sure most of you all who may have
25:28
seen or may not know about the OpenAI agent that recently came out, and you
25:34
know, that Meta Muse that's out now.
25:36
Yeah.
25:36
And it's so many agents out here, Hermes agent that MIT,
25:41
its open source agent by MIT.
25:43
It's so many agents and so much going on that the models are getting smarter
25:47
and smarter every day, and we just have to know how to work with them.
25:52
And we are helping them get smarter, 'cause we're giving
25:55
them so much information.
25:56
I know people who sometimes upload a whole video to the AI.
26:01
Yeah.
26:02
Yeah.
26:04
But it's definitely, as I say right now, you know, we all know we're in
26:09
a time where AI's not going anywhere.
26:11
Mm-hmm.
26:11
You know, we just have to learn better ways, safer ways to work with it.
26:15
I know it can be a little scary when you're trying to figure out, "Oh, I
26:18
don't know if I'm ready to take that next step", but it's where we're going.
26:22
But I want people to know that you can take the right step,
26:25
and you can do it safely.
26:26
You don't have to employ five or 10 digital employees in your
26:31
company if you're not ready.
26:32
Just pilot one first, see how it works out.
26:35
Keep training it, keep discovering what's possible.
26:39
Put those guardrails in place, like I said, what it can do, what it can't
26:42
do, what it should never access.
26:45
You know, have that written down for yourself, you know, that you're
26:47
always going back to, so it's kind of top of mind as well, because it's
26:52
one thing that we have to continue to train ourselves on as well.
26:56
Let's be our own, AI ethical leaders that we're putting those guardrails
27:00
in first so we're not worried about at the end of the day, "Oh
27:04
my God, did this company do this?"
27:06
If you're a solopreneur or a person who has a rather small team and you're
27:10
still managing the technical piece, for yourself or maybe for a small team,
27:15
like one to five people, you know, let's empower ourselves to make sure we are
27:20
doing that security measures first.
27:25
Let's empower ourselves to make sure we are doing the security measures first.
27:30
Yes.
27:31
Important.
27:32
Don't be scared, just empower yourself to make sure that…
27:36
Right
27:36
… you're doing those security measures first.
27:39
Thank you, Jennifer.
27:41
thank you.
27:41
So of course, we're gonna open up the floor for those who have joined
27:44
us, but for those listening to this later or viewing this on YouTube,
27:49
how can people get in touch with you?
27:51
Yes, definitely.
27:52
You can follow me everywhere.
27:54
Of course, Jennifer Ponder Speaks, and I am on Instagram.
27:59
Certainly, you can follow us, Nexora Strategy Consulting.
28:02
Of course, we're on Facebook and Instagram as well.
28:05
certainly happy to speak with anyone on LinkedIn.
28:08
You can find me under Jennifer Ponder CSM.
28:11
Happy to address any questions and follow up and just speak to anyone.
28:14
I love helping people and, my love for helping people to understand technology,
28:21
to make it, just like building blocks.
28:23
I wanna make this easier for people because technology is not going anywhere,
28:28
and just for me to be able to…
28:31
If I can change one life, if I can help someone to implement and make their
28:35
day easier with AI and technology, you know, I feel like I've done my job.
28:39
So I love this, and I love helping people to, you know, just empower themselves
28:45
to use these tools because technology in the right hands, it does the best things,
28:51
but we all know we wanna be good actors, and stewards of this technology too, AI.
28:56
Absolutely.
28:57
Absolutely.
28:59
And for those of you who will listen to this, just like Jennifer has
29:03
been on this show, you can reach out to me if you'd like to be a guest.
29:06
My website is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
29:09
I am on LinkedIn.
29:10
My business page there is Chatting with the Experts.
29:14
I'm also on Instagram.
29:15
My handle there is @chat_experts_podcast.
29:22
We have a YouTube channel now.
29:24
Please subscribe to us there.
29:26
You'll be able to see this, view this episode that, Jennifer and I have done.
29:32
It will be there, as well as all the other past episodes with women who are
29:36
just as phenomenal as Jennifer, talking about a variety of subjects matters
29:41
that are interesting and are very relevant to those of us women in the
29:47
Diaspora in Africa and in the Caribbean.
29:50
And we just recently opened up a TikTok account, so subscribe to us there as
29:57
well, and it's our handle there, I don't know if it's handle because I'm so new at
30:02
this, is chat_experts_podcast on TikTok.
30:08
Thank you, Jennifer.
30:09
This has been so interesting and of course very, very helpful.
30:14
And now we'll open up the floor to all those who joined us so
30:16
they can ask you more questions.
30:19
And those of you who are watching this on our live stream on YouTube, we
30:24
invite you to use the link that I'll drop in YouTube and the live stream
30:29
so that you can come into the room and speak with Jennifer, because she is
30:33
amazing and very, very knowledgeable.
30:35
So thank you, Jennifer.
30:37
Thank you.
30:37
Thank you.
30:37
Thank you.
30:37
Well, thank you, Paula.
30:38
It was my pleasure being here with you and the community.
30:42
Thank you.