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Who Says You Have to Fit in One Box? Integrated Design Engineering Says You Don't · You've Got Options

• Clare: everyone, welcome back to another episode. Today we are going to be talking about our integrated design engineering major, often referred to as IDE. This is another one of our possibly lesser-known majors that has a lot of unique aspects to it. that may not be so obvious to someone just browsing through the major or hearing the words integrated design. We are spoiled today as we have three guests, an academic advisor, a professor and an alumni and current industry professional. But before we dive into those conversations, I'll give a little background and foundational knowledge for this major. IDE students will take many of the same engineering foundations as others, like Calculus 1 through Linear Algebra and Differential Equations, Physics 1 and 2, Computing, and Additional Math or Science electives. but where this major starts to differ from others is the ability to integrate multiple disciplines into one degree. All IDE students will take IDE-specific courses like engineering projects, thermodynamics, circuits, et cetera, You'll then go a step further and pick an emphasis where you can choose from aerospace, architectural, civil, electrical, environmental, or mechanical. You can then go another step further and choose a concentration where you can choose from areas like engineering management, business, neuroscience, and more. naturally, research and work in this field spans a very wide range because of the multitude and combination of disciplines. students can go on to work in teaching, product design, entrepreneurship, law, pre-med, and more. Students that have graduated in this major have gone on to work at Medtronic as a research and development engineer At Noresco, where they help architects and engineers meet their sustainability goals, and at Martin Martin Consulting, where they work as a structural engineer that designs healthcare buildings. With so many different areas to combine, it's important to understand how this makes up a singular degree and what you can expect your time in IDE to look like. To help me dive more deeply into the curriculum and how to make these multiple disciplines cohesive within this degree, I'm joined by Kim Goho, who is a lead academic advisor in integrated design engineering, our IUT program manager, and our engineering peer advisor program manager. She knows a little thing or two about wearing multiple hats. So please join me in welcoming Kim. thank you, Kim, for coming on the podcast. Excited to have you here and talk a little bit about IDE. If you just want to start by introducing yourself, how you got to where you are. Perfect. Well, my name is Kim Goho, a lead academic advisor and program manager within the College of Engineering and Applied Science. I'm originally from Dexter, Michigan, which is a small town outside of Ann Arbor. I earned my undergrad in psychology from the University of Michigan. And when I graduated I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do with my life. So naturally I packed up and moved to Boulder without knowing a soul. I figured if I was gonna do some soul searching, I might as well be a ski bum while doing it. I eventually started exploring grad programs and counseling and along the way I met a life coach. she completely changed my trajectory. After learning about what the difference is between coaching and counseling, I knew immediately what I wanted to pursue. So I spent the next couple years completing training and certificates and coaching and leadership. I am now a certified life coach, have been for almost twenty-four years. I think that background really shapes how I approach academic advising. I see the role as helping students explore possibilities, but I love the part of recognizing their strengths, asking them questions that provide them an opportunity to really think about what it is that they want, and to help them make decisions that align with their goals I always remind students that it's their education and their experience, not mine. I love this new analogy. This is my new favorite. I tell students, you're the one bowling. I'm just the bumpers helping you get to the pins. I think that's probably why I love ID so much. It's that major that encourages students to explore their interest and really create a path that's so uniquely theirs. what are some common reasons you hear about why students choose this major? One of the biggest reasons I think students choose IDE is that they're passionate about multiple things and they don't want to just have to choose one. they might love mechanical engineering, but are also fascinated by neuroscience or they want to combine environmental engineering with sustainability, energy IDE gives students that flexibility to bring those interests together within one engineering degree without necessarily adding another major or extending their time to graduation. another big draw is the hands-on project learning experience. students aren't just learning engineering concepts and lectures. They're applying what they learn, building things, solving real problems and developing tangible examples of their engineering skills. and then there's the community, which I think is one of IDE's greatest strengths. Our class sizes are generally much smaller, allowing for more individualized instruction, personalized attention from faculty. Our faculty and staff genuinely know our students. sometimes at a large university, students can feel like just another number. IDE offers the smaller family feeling, the resources and opportunity of a major research institution, but also creating the sense of belonging, connection that you might expect from a smaller program. I love the part about being able to pursue these different interests without adding time to graduation. I think that's huge. I have a lot of students that want to do all these things, but if you add a double major, a dual degree, Reminers, you're gonna be paying more money, spending more time. that is a great point about IDE is that you can do these things and still graduate within four years. Well, I think it's interesting because you know, when people ask what's the typical student like? It is someone who's curious, creative, they want to solve problems, they want the hands-on. They have that multiple interest that you're talking about. And they also want some ownership of what their education looks like, What questions do students most commonly ask about this major and what are your responses? I think the first question really is what's the difference between IDE and a traditional? major like mechanical engineering. And my answer is that they complete some of the same foundational engineering courses as students in traditional majors. They choose an engineering emphasis that provides technical depth in a particular discipline. But instead of completing every requirement that traditional majors do, they have the additional flexibility of pursuing a concentration, which is basically an additional area of study. they can also study two engineering disciplines. So mechanical and biomedical engineering, electrical engineering and computer science, I also want to emphasize that IDE isn't just engineering light. students still compete rigorous math, science, and engineering coursework. and because Project based learning is woven through the program. Students graduate with more technical knowledge. They have a portfolio of projects demonstrating what they've actually done as engineers. I think another question that I hear a lot is, will I be able to find a job? Will employers know what IDE is? Absolutely is my answer. IDE grads pursue careers in a wide variety of industries and many secure employment before they graduate. some of our alumni have worked for companies that blow my mind, like Ball Aerospace, Rivian, Lockheed Martin, Google, Medtronic, Tencentric. BaseX. I was like, what? So that hands-on experimental learning, I think, is becoming more and more common and gaining recognition across the country. employers want graduates who can apply what they've learned, not just regurgitate what they learned in a textbook or in a lecture. they want students who have collaborated across disciplines, who solve complex problems, and IDE provides opportunities for them to develop those skills. Will every employer immediately recognize integrated design engineering? Probably not. but our students love that question. I thought they would fear it, but they actually love it. gives them the opportunity to explain what makes their education unique and what they're bringing to the table that's different than a traditional engineering student. So I love that it really provides the opportunity for students to shine. I wanna talk a little bit about the curriculum because there are so many areas you can go into. I would assume the curriculum is pretty flexible but I'd love to hear more about how the curriculum is structured, especially with these emphasis and concentration options. How do students choose between all these different options? When do they need to decide by? Yeah, it's pretty darn flexible. I'd say it's mostly around free electives. So they have around fifteen free electives depending on the engineering discipline that they choose. Plus they have another twelve to fifteen credits for that additional area of study So it gives them a lot of room to explore other engineering disciplines if they would like, or something that's, completely unrelated, or a minor certificate, I would say most students know what they want to do. they know what their emphasis is coming in. I would say about 85% of students know, okay, I want to do mechanical or I want to do aerospace or environmental. the concentration sometimes comes later. there are a lot of students who it takes a little bit of time to figure it out. And I tell students when they come, I'm like, you don't have to have the next four years figured out on day one. Yeah. So with that flexibility in free electives or HSS electives. you can take classes and figure out what you like. students have to declare their concentration by the second semester sophomore year. But they can change it a hundred times. Yeah. It's kind of an arbitrary deadline. But we did find that, students who don't declare their concentration until later, they're rushing to take classes that fit into their schedule So I would just say the sooner you can start integrating a free elective here or there, the better. Yeah to help you narrow things down. The other thing that I tell students is that you really should talk to other IDE students because they've been in their shoes and maybe they changed their concentration three times or they knew all along that they wanted to do economics. The IDE faculty are also great. they're very familiar with the curriculum. What classes do students usually find the most challenging and why? Well, kind of the typical ones, thermodynamics, dynamics surprisingly trip people up. But every student is different and everyone has a different kryptonite. And then what classes do they usually enjoy the most? They love circuits. The gene version of circuits is definitely one of the favorites. They get to deconstruct a video game from their childhood and rebuild it. that's so cool. It's pretty cool. So they love that class. the mechanical students really love the component design class where they make the drill powered vehicle. I'd say for the other emphases, it's all their junior level classes where they get to pick their focus area elective. So, the construction or water resources, steel design, classes like that. are there any opportunities within the program or generally that students should take advantage of early? I would say find your people. join a club or student organization. If you like to climb, see if there are fellow climbers around you. it's really important that you find anything, any group that is gonna make this large university smaller. whether it's related to engineering like ASDE or AASME, BME S, engineers without borders, robotics. I just heard about this theme park engineering and design. I was like, how my gosh is that? And not only do I know one student, now I know another student. I mean it's it's really cool. But then there's also identity based orgs like SWE, SHPE, OSTEM, NSBE, So just find your people and don't be discouraged if you go to a student organization meeting and it's not your jam. find another one. They're not all gonna be the exact same. So keep trying. It's like throwing spaghetti at a wall. One of them's gonna stick. IDE also provides opportunities when You can come together. We have community and culture events every semester. So it provides kind of a low key environment where you can meet other IDE students. sometimes alumni stop by, faculty, staff, I usually go 'cause there's a craft. And snacks. it's a stop by event. So you're not, committed to stay a long time. But just to find people who have similar interests, I think is the key. I'd say IDE also has a lot of course assistant opportunities. if you want to find out how to help students with their project instead of create the project yourself. helping students helps you learn on a deeper level. I think that's a great opportunity that I don't think has been mentioned yet, but course assistance. Yeah. what other support systems can help students succeed in this major? Advisors, often. Yes. Yeah, I mean I think advisors are a great place to start. especially if you're not sure what help you need. particularly in this degree, I don't know how you would navigate this degree without an advisor. Yeah. Every semester they come in because they need the assistance. Well and they love me, I think. Of course. It's so complex. It's very flexible and you need, to make sure that you're on track for those pins, And we're also familiar with a lot of other support resources. So I have to give a shout out to peer advising my team of advisors. They're amazing. and peer coaching. what better opportunity to hear a peer perspective? I think especially when thinking about okay, what emphasis do I want to follow or even concentration, our peer advisors span multiple different majors. And so I think even just trying to choose your emphasis, going to a peer advisor and saying, well, how did you choose your major? What got you interested? What is your experience in that major right now? I think even that can help with the decision making process. And yeah, just the peer perspective. I don't know what it's like. To take thermo. And so I think they're pretty invaluable in that way. Yeah, absolutely. Why would you want a psychology major's advice on that? No, exactly. The other thing I I have to give a shout out to is our faculty. our faculty are so student centered. and they genuinely care about every student. I've heard many stories, but the one that comes to mind is around spring recognition commencement. We sit around the table as faculty and staff and we talk about every single graduate. And I mean it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. We talk about every single graduate and then people just start rattling off what they've accomplished inside and outside of the classroom. collectively we know them so well. It really does feel like a family. I had a student in my office who was really struggling to find an internship and she was an electrical engineering emphasis student. And, you know, I gave her some general advice and then in passing I was talking to an IDE professor And he said, have her come talk to me. I have a friend in electrical and he's looking for an intern and I think she'd be a really good fit. And she ended up getting the job. my gosh. So, you know, I just I love it. and because it's small, letters of recommendation, they're stellar because the letter speaks to how well we know our students. That makes my heart so warm. Well, kind of last formal question. What mistakes do new students make when planning their coursework? Well, they don't pay attention to the prerequisites or the course scheduling. they allow indecisiveness to kind of delay their progress. So students feel like they have to have their entire academic career lined out when they get here. So I encourage them to explore your interests, make informed decisions, and then remember that. Plans evolve based on classes that you take. So allow for a little flexibility in there and allow your life to unfold instead of following a specific map. kind of on that topic, what's your best advice for choosing a major in general? Spend time in thinking about what lights you up. Like what's gonna get you out of bed on a gloomy day? the most tangible one is read course descriptions. Does it speak to you or does it make you meh? that really does help you determine do I wanna learn more about this topic or does it turn me off? So the course descriptions I think are really helpful. And if you're really truly unsure, utilize assessments. Career Services has a bunch of assessments like Clifton Strengths, which I love. the major card sort where you can really help identify what might align with your interests. talk to advisors, faculty in different departments. think students just assume who am I to just approach someone randomly and honestly everybody is here to help. And if they don't have time for you, find someone who does. last question. What's one piece of advice you wish every incoming IDE student knew? Well, not just IDE, but don't suffer in silence. there's a whole team of people here to support you no matter what your major, but especially in IDE. we don't know That you need help unless you tell us. So if you're not sure who to talk to, your advisor's the best first step. key things to look out for. You're not sleeping or exercising or eating healthy or doing anything fun outside of the class. other things to look out for, you're studying harder and longer. and you're not seeing the results. some of the things that worked in high school are not gonna translate in college. And academic coaching can help explore what's working, what's not, to help you keep doing what is. And try different strategies for what's not. That's all the questions we have. thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Feels like a warm hug after talking about it. So thank you so much. Sure. Thanks. With so much opportunity and flexibility, again, it's important to understand how this prepares students for their future endeavors. to provide further insight into this major and field, I'm also joined today by Dan Godrick, who, prior to teaching for the IDE program, pursued an educational background in mechanical and civil engineering, worked as a mechanical engineer and is a licensed professional engineer in Colorado. So please join me in welcoming Professor Dan Godrick. Thank you for joining me today. I appreciate your time. before we get started and jump into it, I just want to know how did you get into this discipline? What's your background? What made you want to teach and mentor in this field? Yeah, so my name's Dan Godrick, and before I joined CU, I was a professional engineer. And so my background is pretty varied. I graduated and I thought I wanted to go into business consulting. And after spending about a year or two in That I was like, that's not for me. And then I went in, it was the height of the first internet boom, and a friend of mine started a company. And Went into that and yeah, that wasn't for me either. And so I was living in New York with my friends and having a great time. But I sat underneath the tree in Central Park and I said, I don't like this either. What do I like? And I thought back and I loved the class and failure analysis. And so I went back and I got a first masters. And for about fifteen years after that, I was a professional engineer doing vehicle dynamics and accident reconstruction. And that was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it, but there were aspects that I didn't like. And so I'd since moved to Boulder and started building robots in my spare time. And I said, This is fun. And my neighbor he was in mechanical engineering and he said, You should come and look at the lab. And I visited the ITLL and I said I'd like to have access to that resource and I'm kinda looking to make another switch. I love engineering, but I'm looking to make another switch and got another masters and came to see you. And while there I was running my own company and there's a professor and he said, You should be a TA. And I'm like, that's what I need. Another thing. And I did, and I loved it. And so I said, that's teaching thing is something I could could get behind. And then I joined CU as a engineer at the ITL and they allowed me to teach a class and then a job opening came up a couple of years later for a permanent teaching position. in the IDE program and I just found that I really loved the projects of the IDE program. I applied and was lucky that they chose me. So that's kinda and here we are. So that's a little bit about my background Thanks for sharing. how would you describe this major to someone who knows nothing about it, Yeah, and that's the hardest part. We're relatively new. We've been around for over ten years now, but What I like to say is to students who are interested, what classes would you take if you weren't required to take any classes? And if the student's answer is, I want take more aerospace classes. I love aerospace. I want to take as many classes in aerospace or mechanical engineering. I want to take all of them. Yeah. And I said, boy, do we have the majors for you? students who are like, I wanna be an engineer, but I wanna take more physics classes as well, or I wanna learn more about neuroscience, or I love engineering, but I wanna start my own company and I need this business background. And what I say is, well, there's room. And as somebody who has a varied background in mechanical, a civil engineering degree. And when I was working in the ITL, I was in the electronics shop helping people with electronics. So I've a lot of people are like, wait, you're not a EE? Yeah. And I'm like, Nope. but that's the thing. where I kinda identify is that I'm an engineer. And I think IDE is for people who kinda identify I'm an engineer, but I'm something else too. There's some other passion that I have. and yeah, we're A-BET accredited. And so that always is a question. ABET is the accreditation board for engineering programs. the other thing that really differentiates ourselves is that all of our classes have. projects. And that's one of the things that as an engineering student, I did well on tests. Yeah. And I didn't always love projects. And then I graduated. And I was like, hey, where are the tests? And there's two. There's the fundamentals of engineering and then there's the PE. And I'm a professional engineer. So I passed those tests. But it's all projects. you're gonna graduate with an IDE degree with not just one or two project classes. You're gonna have seven projects for your portfolio. Your projects that you work on aren't the same as anybody else. So your story is different. And so you can be an IDE with an emphasis in electrical. Or you can be an IDE with an emphasis in mechanical, you're gonna have a different curriculum and still be an IDE student. And then you're gonna have your concentration and that's gonna make you even more individual. but it means you have to explain it a little more and in job interviews with the right company that's an advantage. But sometimes, yeah, you have to be able to tell that story in order to kind of get your foot in the door sometimes. Yeah. well to capitalize on that I know that sometimes with these more interdisciplinary majors, We get the questions Can I get a job with this degree? in what scenarios would I choose this degree over something maybe more known to the public streamlined, like mechanical or electrical? how would it make me unique if I were to get this degree? I think the uniqueness is that I think we have over a hundred different combinations. how you capitalize on it, it's up to you. And so what I advise is for people to pass the fundamentals of engineering exam. And if you can take it in the discipline that your emphasis is, yeah, there's a independent, exam that gives you a a leg to stand on. And what I will say is that our graduates are working for the same companies, you know, big aerospace companies, the automobile companies, What happens is just like with a lot of jobs, it's the network. And so, how did one of our graduates get a job with this boutique automobile company that's making some of the coolest cars in the entire world? Well, she was an IDE student. She also ran the CU Car Club and grew that. And went to a car show and talked to somebody and they gave her an interview and they're like, Who are you? you are not like anyone else. We'd love to have you. you're not telling the same story that fifty other people are or a hundred other people are saying. You're saying a very unique individual story. I think finding that club that makes you different or that research opportunity, finding something outside of classes is one of those things that When I was in hiring you know that people are in class to go to school. And so you do look at GPAs, I don't wanna say you don't. If you find that student who is fully active in the club, you know that that person's doing engineering intrinsically. So they have a passion for something. and they're doing real-world engineering, not in a book, not because a professor or their parents are telling. They're doing it because they want to do it. I know when I was in hiring that was looked at highly. what's your advice for getting involved in maybe specifically internships and research? my advice is to make authentic connections. So sometimes when people go out to networking, they try to meet as many people as possible, and they never actually meet anybody. And so for me, what I tell students in my classes is you never know where the next opportunity is going to land. It could be a professor. But it could be that person next to you at a coffee shop. Yeah. And so I will say I used to go to coffee shops prior to having a kid, I used to go to coffee shops and I just met people. And one of the persons I met, after a while, he said, Yeah, if you ever need a job Give me a call. I said, I'm not in your industry or you know. Yeah. and he said, No, but I will have a place for you. I've talked to you, and there'll be a place for you. And I didn't go meeting this person looking for a job. Right. I just happened to chat with him and had an authentic conversation with him over coffee. And I will say that I've met so many interesting people that way. Boulder's an incredible town. People love helping students. If you sit down and meet somebody, you never know when the opportunity's gonna come. is there any research in IDE going on right now that you are particularly excited about? We do research in engineering education. And so I personally don't do a ton of research. I've done some. the people who do research in IDE were all interested in learning, learning effectively. how our students learn. One of the things that we teach in all our classes, what we said were projects or hands-on learning. learning and that's because you can get content In a lot of different ways. But to truly learn something, you have to experience it. you can learn them in the book, but to apply them, you have to get your hands on it. You have to build something. You have to do something where the answer might not be in the back of a book. Yeah. Fail, try again. Yeah. And so it's more than just content. We study identities. our current students. Mm-hmm. are different, than students 10 years ago when I started, And so studying that, identity, studying that belonging is something that we've been doing research for quite some time on. That's great. I think that's super interesting. well, What do you see being the most impactful for students as they go through this major? Could be a specific class, could be the people, could be projects, course. What I see is that there's a difference between a problem and the book. And a problem in the real world. And the book problem has an answer. If it's not in the back of the book, it's in the instructor's book manual. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, when you're out in the real world, and you're actually trying to do it, it's messy. it's hard to measure to a fraction of an inch or fraction of a millimeter. It's hard to get an exact angle of 63 or 57 degrees with a protractor. when you have a idealized problem, everything's perfect. And then in actuality, nothing's perfect. And so developing That when is good enough good enough, and when is good enough certainly not good enough is something that's hard and it's challenging. And so I can't speak for a lot of other classes, but I can speak for statics, and that's one thing that I try to teach from the very first week. And it's something that I know that very first week. After they do it, I might not be the most popular professor ever because I understood this problem, Professor Dan. And then you gave me this thing, and all of a sudden, you gave me a torque meter with Newton centimeters, and then you gave me this ruler in inches? Like, why are you mixing up units? And I just tell them, I just got these torque meters because they were cheap. And when we made this thing, it made Cents and inches, but we're engineers and we can figure it out. and so that happens throughout statics. we start with this idealized trust. And then they have to cat it. And when they cat it, all of a sudden the member lengths change because they now have width. And then they have to build it. And all of a sudden, when you clamp down something, it slides all around because the glue is slippery. And so by the end of the class, they have at least five or six workshops. And then they have this project. And then they realize that, yeah, I can do these book problems. But then there's also this step that Has to occur when I actually have to do statics to make something that doesn't break. So it's making that connection from idealized book problems to that real world. That's great. I haven't gone through this major, but I would find that so impactful because I'm a learner where I can see something done, but I have to do it to actually get a grasp for okay, what does this look like? How is it gonna work? So I personally would find that very impactful. and maybe what you just talked about is obviously a challenge, but are there any other challenges that you see students face as they go through this? Major. Yeah, I think our biggest challenge is people misperceiving what IDE is. I think a misperception is that it's easy. Because we don't have as many tests, and because we have these projects, people who are good at tests sometimes are like, well, that's the easy way out. the story I like to say is there was a statics class about four years ago. And we have this project. And there was a student who did not do well on the first test. And he was teamed up with a student who did extraordinarily well on the first test. then the project rolled around. And the student who didn't do well on the first test. Got in there and just did so much of the project. And the student who did well on the test was like, I'm doing great on these tests. I get this thing. Yeah. And through the hands-on learning, through the project, that student who didn't do well on the first test ended up setting the bar on the final. we're still engineering accredited. ABET looks at what we do and says, Yeah, you are graduating engineers And so our students Sometimes gravitate towards projects because that's something that they look at and say, that's really going to elevate me. And sometimes they gravitate towards projects because they are people who, and I'll put this in quotes, don't test well. Yeah. And so students who don't test well sometimes are looked at by other students as less than. And that's a challenge because What I say to those students is have a portfolio. Let your portfolio do the talking. But I think those are our challenges. Not knowing what IDE is and also that it's somehow less than. Well, thanks for debunking that. okay, we're gonna go into a rapid fire round. nice, okay. I'll ask a question and then just say kind of the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. First one, if someone is undecided, how can they tell this major might be a good fit? Do they like projects? Do they like working in teams? Great. What habits or mindsets can help set students up for success? That failure is the best way to learn. What's one of the coolest projects that you've seen? The coolest project, they're all cool. Yeah. And projects, from my perspective, are a medium for learning. And I just said it. When I saw that student go from potentially not passing to literally. The best grade in the class through the use of a project and what that student learned. Look, I just got goosebumps. Yeah, I did too. Yeah. that was for me, the project is the medium for learning. And I've never seen a project totally turn around a student's success in a class like that. but they're all cool. What makes this engineering discipline meaningful to you? I'm an engineer. When people ask what type of engineer, I say, don't put me in a bucket. Mm-hmm. We're all engineers. And that's the humbling that I got as a professional engineer was I'm a mechanical engineer doing vehicle dynamics, and we needed to hook up sensors. So I had to be an electrical engineer. I had to figure it out. And as an engineer, we figure it out. And that's it. we can be a big tent. We all take our technical learning and apply it to change the world. last but not least, what's one takeaway you hope the listeners remember? If you want to be an engineer and you want to also have time to explore something else while you're a student, consider IDE. I love it. That's it. That's all the questions I have. thank you so much for joining me. like I said, doesn't matter what type of engineer you consider yourself, there's room for you in IDE. I love it. Awesome. Great. All right, thank you so much. All right. Well hopefully we got some good sound bites in there. Lastly, let's talk with Rachel Sharp, an alumni of the IDE program and one of the engineering lab managers at our very own ITLL. Thank you, Rachel, for coming on the podcast. I appreciate you taking the time to tell us a little bit about your IDE journey. before we dive into the questions, I would love to know just more about your educational and career journey, how you got to where you are today. Yeah, so I currently work as an engineering lab manager at the Integrated Teaching and Learning Lab, which is the lab that's connected to the College of Engineering where a lot of the hands-on courses happen in the college. And so I currently work with faculty on building labs and also manage a team of engineers. But I have had a handful of jobs prior to that. I started as an engineering consultant at the ITL and managed all of our 3D printer ecosystem and consulted with students. in my undergrad I studied integrated design engineering. So my emphasis was in mechanical engineering and my concentration was in engineering management and entrepreneurship. And then I took a bunch of STEM ed classes because I got really excited about education. in my undergrad, I did a handful of internships working on mechanical products at a toys robotics company. I did a summer accelerator where I got to build my own business, which was pretty cool. And then another summer I did a STEM camp. And now, in addition to working as a staff member, I'm currently working on my PhD in engineering education. So I've done a lot of different things that's led me to where I am today. what initially drew you to IDE and or how did you make the decision to pursue it? So I started in electrical engineering and pretty quickly kind of realized that it wasn't quite the right fit for me. I realized that I liked doing things with physical products and systems and things like that. And I had a pretty hard time in my first circuits-based projects class and honestly contemplated leaving engineering at that point because I was really struggling. And then I ended up in the first year projects class. And I met one of the faculty there who I really connected with, Mindy Zarski, and she talked to me a bit about what integrated design engineering was. And so after learning that it was a lot more hands-on and project-based than your typical engineering major, I realized that I wanted to switch to that program because I was having fun in the hands-on projects classes. And so I ended up switching from electrical engineering into the integrated design engineering program and switching my emphasis to mechanical. And what did you expect your career to look like as a student when you switched into IDE? What did you think that meant? What did you think you'd be doing, and how does that differ from your reality now? so I think when I first picked engineering, I was like, wow, it'd be so cool to help people. Like engineers help people by building products and fixing problems. I didn't really know what I would be doing in undergrad. I kind of imagined, okay, I'll be working on a product, probably on some sort of CAD. But partway through my degree being in the integrated design engineering program, I started to realize that while I love engineering, I felt like my identity was so much more than just an engineer. I loved teaching. I loved all the times that I was a CA and I was working with K-12 students. I loved entrepreneurship. I loved building products, seeing business ideas. And so as I got to explore those different parts of myself, I started kind of building skill sets in engineering, in education, in entrepreneurship. And what was unexpected upon graduation was that you can actually find a job that is really creative, that aligns with your skill sets. And when you focus on the things that you're passionate about and you market yourself that way, you can find something that fits for you. So I think what I learned is that we don't have to do things that are in the box while we see engineers do really traditional things. Engineers work in all sorts of fields. doing all sorts of things. so like I now get to build labs that students interact with and it's very entrepreneurial and creative, but it's also education and engineering mixed, which is super cool. Yeah. And do you wanna talk more about what your day to day looks like? Yeah, yeah. So my day to day is well, no two days are the same. And that's part of what I love about my job. So I support faculty all across the College of Engineering in aerospace, mechanical engineering, civil, any department you name it. And my role is they'll come to me with an idea for a lab and I'll build that lab. So like an example could be we were building a lab for material science course and we were teaching them about foams and polymers. So I ended up working with an alumni who works at Adidas. And we built a lab where students got to do cyclical load tests on a running shoe and learned material science concepts. So a lot of my job is bringing a lab idea to life. And then the day-to-day is working with students to actually run those labs and getting to iterate on them. Our role is to constantly innovate within the space. That sounds like so much fun. and I would love to hear a little bit more about. What was the process of getting that job? When you graduated, was kind of the first thing you applied to? Did you shop around a little bit? when I was getting ready for graduation, there was a lot of passions that I had. So I applied to a lot of different jobs. I applied to standard mechanical engineering roles. I applied to a venture capital firm. working with startups And then I also applied to work at the integrated teaching and learning lab. I got pretty lucky because I got approached for the role at the ITL because an engineer had left our lab and so there was an opening. And I worked in the lab for three years as a student helping to teach workshops and fix the printers. And so it actually set me up pretty well to then be offered the job at the lab. And I think some advice I would give to students is in undergrad I started to realize that relationships were probably the most important thing for actually getting a job. I was kind of always the first one to raise my hand to volunteer. you know, at the recruitment events and so I'd hang out with the faculty for hours. and I started to learn that those relationships were where opportunities had come from. And so almost every job that I got on campus was through a connection that I had built. I started to learn that if you put your all into the opportunities that you're given in undergrad, you have no clue where those things are going to lead. And so I think I got pretty lucky to be offered that job. And kind of thinking about, especially with IDE, there are so many areas that you can specialize in emphasis, concentration, and people tend to have all these different interests. What are your thoughts on how students in the major can begin connecting those interests and strengths to possible careers? Hmm. I think that what at least I did that helped me approach that was I knew I wanted to do mechanical engineering because I knew it was gonna be sort of a broad field and I wasn't sure exactly which major I wanted to go into. So it felt like if I can learn a broad field of study, then that's gonna give me a lot of opportunity. And then when it came to the actual concentration, I think I started to just look at the things I liked to do in my free time. So almost every summer in high school it was volunteering at like kids' robotics. clubs and helping out with that. And I realized that I really loved working with young kids. So then I thought, hmm, could I integrate that into a major? I ended up taking the third year projects class it was called Invention and Innovation. And we spent the class building a product and I realized that I had such a love for entrepreneurship because you get to do so much more of the market research with people. And I was like, wow, I think that's the part of engineering that I really love is understanding people and then getting connected to building a product based on that. So it doesn't have to happen at the start of your degree. I even switched my emphasis twice. I went from the education one to the entrepreneurship one. You can discover parts about yourself as you go. And then the other tip I would give to students is I very intentionally went and got different summer job opportunities to learn about whether I liked these things or not. So I very intentionally did a summer of working with kids and a summer of startup things and a summer of a very traditional mechanical engineering internship. And so by the time I was getting ready to graduate, I just started to build that an idea of what I'd liked and didn't like. I think that is such a great tip. And it sounds like maybe that third year projects class was when things maybe shifted. But I did have a question was there a particular class or project internship or experience that helped shape your career direction or was it everything combined? so I think some of the things that were impactful, the first one was getting a job on campus. I really struggled with my confidence after the first two years of engineering. I almost dropped out because I was really struggling in those applied mathematics and physics courses. And I was like a straight A student in high school. And when I was barely passing these exams, I was like, wow, am I really cut out for this degree? And I ended up taking the first year projects course and I ended up doing a part of that project that I'd never done before. So I was working with the Arduinos and the circuits for the projects. And it took a lot of courage to ask for a part of the project that I didn't know how to do initially because you walk in and some students come in with a lot of experience. Yeah. And so taking on that aspect of the project, I was able to work with the faculty in that course, Dan, Mindy, and get a lot of mentorship and that first year project built my confidence of like, wow, I can do things that I don't know how to do at first. And then I was offered the job at the ITLL to start fixing and repairing printers. And I think the process of troubleshooting and fixing things and having to teach workshops on concepts that I knew nothing about a few weeks prior just started to help build my confidence. And so I think the advice I would give to students is do things that make you uncomfortable that you want to learn because everybody was a beginner at some point. And I think that's one of the cool things about the integrated design engineering program is that you continuously have these project based experiences. So you can explore circuits for one project and CAD for another project and learn over time the things you really enjoy. Yeah. Even just the sense I've gotten from all the interviews I've done is it's almost encouraged in this program to try and try again and, invest in yourself and your growth. I feel like that really comes out from a lot of these stories. I think there is definitely like a culture of community around trying new things and failing, which is really cool. Was there anything about the program that surprised you when you joined and transferred in? I think one thing that surprised me joining the Integrated Design Engineering program was that I knew I would have all these different projects-based courses, but when I reflected after the number of years that I spent in the program, I didn't realize how much I'd learned cumulatively. when I went to go apply for jobs, I ended up putting together like a web-based portfolio of all the projects that I'd worked on. And I realized how valuable people saw that skill set of they'll ask, especially in interviews. They ask behavioral based questions nowadays, which are really questions around tell me about a time when you struggled with this thing, or you worked through this team dynamic problem. And I had so many stories of things I had learned or things I had failed and learned from, or team dynamic stories, I was able to pitch myself in sort of a different way, where I'm not only going to be able to build the product as the mechanical engineer. But I can think about it from a business perspective So I think when you reflect on your experience as an IDE student, it's one that gives you a lot of unique skill sets that make you pretty hireable. I really appreciate that perspective because that was another question I had. If you wanted to expand on anything but advice for presenting and marketing yourself to potential employers who maybe don't know what IDE is. I definitely have a handful of things to expand on there. The first is that. When you hand out your resume, you do typically get some questions about like what is integrated design engineering? And it can be an opportunity to actually sell what makes you unique. And so a lot of times when I'm explaining what the degree is to an employer, I'm typically saying something like, I'm taking all the classes that a mechanical engineer would take, with the exception of maybe one or two. And then I end up filling in that time with courses around business and teaching. And so, for example, I am super comfortable standing up in front of groups of a hundred people and making a complex engineering concept simple. Because I've had to do it in front of a class of third graders, or because I've had to stand up in front of a hundred people and pitch in an audience setting in five minutes. And then I think the other thing that's kind of cool is you can tailor your resume because you're walking out with a lot of different skill sets. So if I was applying to something where it was business focused, then I would focus on the marketing or the finance skills that I had built through different courses. what skills from your engineering education have been most valuable in your professional life now? a lot of the soft skills have actually really come in handy. Yeah. So things like project management, things like communication. there's been so many different times that I've had to present to different groups of people, whether it's A group of faculty members or a group of students, or you're working with some sort of industry partner that's coming in. And so being able to take a complex engineering concept and break it down into something simple, I think is super valuable. I think the one that's a little less tangible is being comfortable in the uncomfortable of learning something new is difficult. Learning how to approach a complex problem, break it into simpler parts, be unafraid to fail, unafraid to ask questions. that's probably been the most valuable skill set is you get trained for only a fraction of what you actually do in the real world because engineering is pretty broad. And so if you can just build that confidence of trying new things and being comfortable in that discomfort, it's super helpful. Great. And we have a rapid fire round. I call it rapid fire, but you can expand for as long as you want. That's fair. Yeah. but what is a misconception about the major or the field that you would like to debunk? A misconception about IDE is that it's not as rigorous as traditional engineering courses. And it is. It's just in a different way. What kinds of projects or problems have you had the opportunity to work on that really stand out to you if you haven't mentioned them already? I got to work on a sensory space for students with autism for a local high school. And we got to build these really cool, beautiful bubble tubes and LED etchasketches, and that was really fun. If you can go back and give your college or early career self-advice, what would you say? I would say you don't have to figure yourself out completely now. You don't have to know a hundred percent what you're gonna do when you graduate. Life is long and you can have many passions. And I evolved throughout my engineering major with all sorts of different skill sets and I feel like I'm still in that evolution now. What makes this engineering discipline meaningful to you? The community and the care from the faculty members that are teaching. It is really a group of people that are unique in all their own ways, but really encourage one another. Last question. What is one takeaway you hope the listeners remember? To not limit yourself to staying in the box and doing, what you think is safe. figure out who you are and what you enjoy. And if you can learn how to grow skill sets in the things you like and sell those things to an employer, you can really find a career that aligns with your passions. Amazing. I love it. That concludes our episode today on integrated design engineering. you enjoyed it. I hope you learned a little something. And I hope you're inspired by the opportunities that IDE could present you with. As always, keep your ears and eyes open for a new episode. Bye y'all!