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Very Good: What the Bible Says About Women with Jen Oshman! · Anchored by the Sword

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Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Anchor by the
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Sword podcast. I pray that today's episode will
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leave you encouraged and also challenged in your faith.
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And I pray that. You would take.
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The stories that are talked about here today and share them
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with other people. Thank you so much for joining me
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and enjoy today's episode. Hey guys, welcome to this
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episode, the Anchor by the Slower podcast.
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I am so excited today to introduce you guys to Jen
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Osmond. She is an author, speaker,
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church planner's, wife and mom of four daughters.
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She has a Bible study that is coming out on Wednesday.
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If you're listening to this in real time, and it is called very
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good, what the Bible says about being a woman.
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And this has been a topic that I have walked through and I'm just
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really excited to dive further into this and to see why God
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says being a woman is good and a woman's role in the church is
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good as well. So, Jen, thank you for joining
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me today. Yeah, thanks so much for having
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me. I love talking about this so I'm
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eager to do it. Absolutely.
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Can you tell my listeners a little bit more about yourself?
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Yeah. So I, my husband and I just
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celebrated 27 years of being married and we have four
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daughters. When we first were married, we
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finished seminary and went to the mission field with one
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newborn baby girl, and that was in Japan.
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I had two more baby girls while there, and we adopted a fourth
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daughter while we were there as well.
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So we have spent time overseas for 15 years in Japan and the
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Czech Republic. And 10 years ago, the Lord
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brought us back very unexpectedly and abruptly, but
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to take care of my dad, who was very sick at the time.
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And so we transitioned back to Colorado, which is where I'm
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from and where we live. And another unexpected thing God
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did was use our family to plant a church.
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So we have a church that is 9 years old or my husband's lead
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pastor and I lead women's ministry.
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And then I have also been able to do some writing and speaking
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on the side. So this Bible study is, I would
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say it's the fruition of a lifetime, a few decades now of
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just work, raising girls, being in women's ministry, seeking to
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understand what the Bible says about being a woman.
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I love that so much and just real truth right now I kind of
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feel like I'm in Colorado and the reason I say that is because
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we are getting so much snow right now.
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I'm in Ohio and I don't think spring got or winter got the
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memo that spring is starts this week.
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Man, and you know what? In Colorado has been so warm.
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We have gotten very little snow this year.
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So all of us Coloradans are like, the weather is broken, and
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I'm sorry that you got it from us.
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It was. I wish we had it here.
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We we had it one point this this year we had two about 2 1/2 feet
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of snow outside. I cannot imagine that's crazy.
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It was a foot and 1/2 here, but it was in other places it was a
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lot worse. But I mean, a foot and 1/2 in
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Ohio. And we're used to, we're used to
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quite a bit of snow. But in our area, it's like, no,
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please. I mean, thank God I work from
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home. Right.
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And it was just just crazy. So anyways, let's talk about
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your personal freedom journey. Yeah, yeah.
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So I was not raised in a Christian home and neither was
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my husband. And so we have a really
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interesting story. My mom, my parents divorced when
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I was 8 and my mom started taking me to church when I was 9
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or 10. And thankfully, by God's grace,
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she we went to a sweet church that preached the gospel and
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received a single mom and her daughter with open arms.
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And so I heard the gospel and I believed.
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But I, I would say that, you know, I, I lived a week with my
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mom and a week with my dad, and that was from 8 to 18.
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And so it was a pretty tumultuous upbringing.
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And my spiritual formation was sort of done in fits and starts.
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I wasn't sort of immersed in Christian community and what
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that looked like to follow the Lord.
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And so my life was, you know, basically pretty secular with
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church once in a while. My dad was also an attorney who
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was very opposed to Christianity.
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And so the weeks that I spent with him, he worked hard to talk
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me out of the faith. So it was a it was an
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interesting way to be raised. My husband similarly raised in a
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household with addiction and just, yeah, hard things.
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So he came to the Lord later in life as well.
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So when we married young, first of all, I always think it's
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hilarious to share with people we met.
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We met literally Gina at the club, but we were both so we
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like we, we I'm, I'm 6 foot and he's 65.
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And so we, you know, we locked eyes across the dance floor.
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We're both tall and we also had some mutual friends.
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So we started a conversation and it was about the Lord of all
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things out there on the dance floor and married young and
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started our family young. But just from that time asking
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the Lord like, what does it practically look like to walk
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with you? For both of us as young adults
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experiencing the freedom of God's unconditional love and
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forgiveness, that there's nothing that we had to do to
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sort of perform or produce for his acceptance and approval.
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But the the hot messes that we were, he looked on with mercy
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and rescued us and adopted us into his family just freely from
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the beginning. I think that mercy overwhelmed
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both of us. And so we started our faith,
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both of us just in awe of who that God would do that and and
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from that time, just searching and seeking and hungry for
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mentors and discipleship people to show it.
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What does it look like to be a woman who follows God?
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What does it look like to be a family, parents, a couple who
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follows the Lord, but always just coming back to that
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unspeakable gift of the Lord's unconditional and and eternal
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committed love for me? I love that that is that is so
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cute. You.
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You locked eyes at the club. It is pretty funny.
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It's a story I was hesitant to tell for a long time because,
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you know, we've both been in full time ministry now for
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decades. And at first, you know, people
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are always like, oh, how'd you meet?
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You must have met at seminary or you must have met at Bible
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college or you must have met at church.
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And and I was like, oh, not exactly.
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But it's a testimony to what God does in our lives.
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And you know where we started and where he's taken us.
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That is so fun. I know I haven't been to a club
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in so long. I was just talking to somebody
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yesterday and I was like, I don't even know what that whole
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scene. Yeah, that stuff is like
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anymore. I mean, I've been with my
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husband for 26 years. Yeah.
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So we're the same wise. It was the last time either one
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of us set foot in a club so we haven't been back.
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I don't blame you. So what Bible verse or verses
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have kept you anchored? Yeah.
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Oh man, so many. The word of God has been a
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lifeline to me in so many different seasons of life.
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So I went to college. I had met my husband, but you
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know, I went away. I went out of state to college,
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and the Lord definitely had me on a path of bringing me to my
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knees and surrendering to him. Sort of that life of living with
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one foot in the world and 1 foot in the church was not
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surprisingly, leading me to a lot of just discouragement and
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disillusionment, even depression and sadness.
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Like I, I was sort of trying to hold myself up and pull myself
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up by my own bootstraps, you know, six days a week and then
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on the 7th day visiting church and asking God to bless that.
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And in his mercy, he did not allow that to be satisfying.
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He allowed that to be actually very crippling to me.
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And so the, my freshman year of college was once where I spent a
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lot of time literally on the floor of my dorm room just
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asking God for healing for, you know, the pain to be decreased.
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I think I was grieving my upbringing as I had moved out of
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state and I was grieving, unbeknownst to me, just that
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lifestyle, that sort of double headed lifestyle.
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So January of my freshman year, the Lord was like, it's time,
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you know, I, I felt him say in my spirit, like, Jen, I can heal
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you, but you have to give me all of you.
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You have to surrender your whole self.
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I, I can only heal your whole self.
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I can't take part of you and make it all better.
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And the verse that really took my breath away, that just caught
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my attention, and it's one that I return to time and time again,
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because it remains very compelling and convicting to me
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is in First Corinthians, Paul's letter, first letter to the
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Corinthians. And it's at the end of chapter 6
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and it's the very last verse, plus a little bit of the verse
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before. But Paul says this, he says you
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are not your own for you were bought at a price.
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So glorify God with your body and that you know you are not
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your own. Like I, I, I had believed that I
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was self-made, that I was self-sufficient, that I had
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brought myself to college and would launch myself into
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adulthood in my career. I had been very just self
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reliant. And that can feel good for a
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while. Like if you, if you can dream
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it, you can achieve it. You know, let's do this, but
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eventually that runs out because none of us is God.
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None of us is omnipotent. We are limited and finite and
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fallen humans. And so the Lord brought me to
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the end of himself and said you are not your own.
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And there's tremendous freedom in that.
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There is just huge relief to realize, Oh my gosh, this is not
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on me. I don't have to strong arm my
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life and my success and my approval.
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I'm already approved of in the Lord.
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But with that relief comes some responsibility.
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This, this, these words are not my own.
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This life is not my own. The breath of my lungs is not my
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own. My education, my socioeconomic
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status, my neighborhood, my body, my abilities, my
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limitations, these all belong to the Lord.
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So how would He have me glorify Him with those things?
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So yeah, it's a verse that I come back to all the time
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because it's a reminder I'm not my own.
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What? What should I do with this day?
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What should I do with these words?
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These belong to God. What does he want me to do with
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them? That's so good.
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Now, you said you went to Japan. We did, yeah.
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We lived there for a decade. Did.
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You plan a church over there as well.
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Yeah, so my husband pastored American military members
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stationed in Japan. So we were not military.
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So we lived sort of a Japanese life and we were, we were not on
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base and shopped at Japanese grocery stores and paid Japanese
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taxes, all those things. But our in depth relationships
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were in English with Americans. So yeah, it was kind of an
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interesting way to be. That's awesome.
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How else have you seen God use your lives?
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I mean, our life in Japan was such a delight.
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We went to the mission field not long after September 11th.
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And so we were working in a population of people who really
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were facing life and death as so many, you know, skirmishes and
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wars around the around the globe erupted at that time.
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And things were so intense at that time.
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So our church in Japan was full of military members and their
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spouses and their children who were saying goodbye constantly
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and facing violence and the unknown.
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And so those years were really sweet because unlike in sort of
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typical fast-paced American life, these particular Americans
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were asking, you know, where is God and all of this?
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Who is God? What will happen if I die?
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Am I ready to die? What will happen if my husband
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doesn't come back or my wife doesn't come back?
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How will I handle my children if he's gone or she's gone?
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So though things were heavy on a global scale, spiritually,
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speaking into lives of service members was really a delight and
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something that we were really grateful for.
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And just raising our young children amidst all of that and
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raising our kids to see a community that was living for
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something bigger than themselves, a community that had
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given themselves over to serving their country.
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But not just that are it was a community that was eat.
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We took tons of mission trips all over Asia with these people.
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These were people who were eager to pour themselves out.
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And so our kids saw us, you know, caring, participating in
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work in Asia that was, you know, caring for orphans and widows
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and working against trafficking in different countries.
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And what a gift to raise my kids on the mission field.
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It was. It was a huge, huge delight.
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That's amazing because we don't understand what's going on
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overseas. And I think people are becoming
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more aware now. But I mean, we just, we have no
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idea and we've kind of gotten stuck in this Western idea of of
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spiritual warfare is the Wi-Fi didn't go right or something
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like that. But in reality, it's going, it's
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going so much deeper overseas. Yeah, it's true.
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We after, after serving in Japan, we moved to the Czech
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Republic where there's less than 1/2 of 1% of the population
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follows Christ as Lord. And so that's, that's maybe 1
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believer for every 200 people. Very, very spiritually dark
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place. And yeah, we've really felt it.
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It was a heavy place to live. And just give me perspective
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when we came back to Colorado, which is a very secular place in
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the United States, It it gave me perspective on how much, you
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know, actual hope and light is here and how much we can
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leverage, the Christians can leverage here still, you know,
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to preach the gospel where there is still some opportunity for
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that for which I'm very grateful.
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Awesome. So what made you realize that
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now was the time for this book to come out?
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Yeah, very good. What the Bible says about being
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a woman is a Bible, an in depth Bible study.
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It goes from Genesis to Revelation.
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And I study in depth all the passages that speak to being
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female, the ones that are, you know, really encouraging, the
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ones that are really confusing, like the Old Testament law, some
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of those Old Testament stories that feel so heavy, like what is
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happening here. I look at Jesus and women, which
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is such a delight, Paul and women, which is actually
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delightful as well, even though Paul writes some of those harder
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passages where we're like, what is he saying all the way through
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Revelation? So I think for me, you know,
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raising 4 girls and raising them on three continents in a culture
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in Asia, culture in Europe and the culture in the United States
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and seeing the expression of the church on three different
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continents and what it looked like to to be a faithful
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Christian witness in three very different places.
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When I moved back to the United States 10 years ago, I think I
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was surprised kind of by the tone of the conversation about
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women in the church, as well as maybe the angle that tended.
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From my perspective, having lived overseas for so long, it
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felt like the conversation sort of inevitably bent toward
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restrictive, like, here's where women can't be.
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This is what women shouldn't be doing.
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Here's what we don't want from women and girls.
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And I, I had been overseas for 15 years where it was like all
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hands on deck. We need every believer preaching
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the gospel. We need every believer, you
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know, active in God's Kingdom. And I, I think there is space
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for different denominations and different churches to have
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different convictions and, and fall in different places on a
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spectrum of what roles are reserved for qualified men or
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qualified women. I definitely think there's room
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for disagreement there for, you know, that we can back up with
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Scripture. But the tone of the conversation
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gave me pause. Just sort of the very confusing
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nature of the conversation gave me pause.
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It was like in culture, we were saying, you know, what is a
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woman? Actually, you can't define it.
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Anybody who says she's a woman, that's a woman.
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So the cultural conversation was really strange and untruthful,
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but then the conversation in the church didn't feel joyful.
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It didn't feel empowering in general.
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Of course, I'm speaking in generalities, but the sort of
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the loudest conversations in the church felt like we got to be
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really careful. We got to have really tight
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boundaries. We got to have really high
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walls, you know? And I was like, this is, I just
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don't see this in Scripture. So what does the people say?
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And I wanted to give women in the church an opportunity to
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find out for themselves. And I think it can feel really
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overwhelming to ask the question, what does the Bible
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say about being a woman? And so I wanted to to sort of be
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that tour guide, but like, let's start here.
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And then you're going to want to move through here.
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The student, the reader of the Bible study has to do the work.
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It is hard work. Each woman will have to do it
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for herself. But I'm going to give her those
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tools to get through it and point her in the direction to to
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get the answers that she's longing for.
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That is so important because you're right, I was at a place
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where I kind of felt like I was either supposed to be in the
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nursery or the kitchen and nobody wants me in either place
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because I will yell at your children and I will burn your
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church down. Like I'm just, those are not my
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giftings. And I've just seen different
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things throughout the years as well as we all have any, any
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woman who's been at the church and who's had a desire to serve
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past attendance has heard some things.
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So I love the fact that you take it from Genesis to Revelation
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and show us and let us walk through that whole process so
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that we can back up whatever we're saying that we're able to
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do with Scripture and say, look, you may not do this or you may
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not believe in this, but this is what the Bible says and it
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doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Yeah, yeah. I think we live in a sound bite
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age. And so people pull a verse and
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make it say what they want it to say.
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But the truth is, and I and I say in the beginning of the
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study, like you might be tempted to flip 5-6 weeks in and get to
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the bottom of what Paul meant in those hard verses.
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But I really need you to start in Genesis because you cannot
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interpret those New Testament letters if you don't start with
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the Old Testament scriptures, which Paul loved and and was
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rooted in. So we really have to have like a
18:45
firm understanding of the creation story of what God did
18:49
in Genesis 1 and two, what happened in Genesis 3.
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We cannot pull these verses out of context and make them say
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what we want them to say. The Bible is A1 complete unified
18:58
story given by one God, and so we have to look at it in its
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entirety. Absolutely.
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So one of the key things that we talked about when you're walking
19:11
through the Bible, any book of the Bible, is to look at the
19:13
culture. So what do you think those
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cultural stories told to women about their work and their lives
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have had that influence over the years?
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Yeah, definitely. I think context is huge.
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As you said, we have to look at the culture.
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So to understand what Moses was communicating in the creation
19:32
story, we have to understand his culture.
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To understand those Old Testament laws that feel so
19:37
hard, we have to understand that culture.
19:40
It it is not sufficient. If you really want to know what
19:43
the Bible says, at some point you have to go beyond flipping
19:47
it open and saying, God, give me a word for for today to really
19:51
understanding the history and the context of every chapter
19:54
that you read. So a lot of that work is part of
19:57
the Bible study. I think for today's culture, the
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conversation about women and girls is just really
20:05
interesting. You know, the very, the secular
20:07
conversation is honestly heartbreaking.
20:11
Some of our lawmakers, those who definitely set the tone and pop
20:15
culture. To be communicating very loudly
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and very effectively that anybody can be a woman.
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I think it's just incredibly degrading to females and to
20:27
girls. I just learned yesterday that my
20:29
state of Colorado has the most biological male athletes
20:34
competing in female sports in Colorado high school, and that
20:39
just breaks my heart for those girls.
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I was a high school athlete and if I had been up against
20:45
biological males, it would have been infuriating.
20:48
So I think the the cultural conversation is frustrating to
20:52
me that we cannot just be honest and even scientific about that
20:56
conversation. It also though, so set that
21:01
aside and just maybe the quieter or the more common conversations
21:05
we're having about women and girls and culture, I think
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whether we acknowledge it or not, so much of what we believe
21:13
is that we are self-made. Kind of what I said about my own
21:15
story at the beginning is like that it's on us that we, we can
21:20
have it all. We just have to work harder and
21:21
try harder and we can, we can sort of realize all our dreams.
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And I think we also come to the end of ourselves and find out
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that that's not true either. And so my desire is that women
21:34
would know not not only who they are, but who's they are, who
21:39
made them, what he's like, what his design is, what his purpose
21:44
for us is, what his goal for us is.
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This, this is a very fundamental question we have to answer and
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we can't skip over it. It's it is key to how we are
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going to carry out our lives on a daily basis.
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Yeah, and I was in college and I was at a Christian School and we
22:05
had a Coed tennis team. But I, I think I was OK at the
22:09
time. I beat three guys to make the
22:10
team and then I beat three guys to have a starting position.
22:14
And then I got cut and told my job was to wash their shorts,
22:17
take their stats and give them water.
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And that did not go over well. And so knowing what I've been
22:25
through and then seeing the way the culture handles women and
22:29
girls and everything, like, I, I get you.
22:33
I get so frustrated about it. And that's off topic a little
22:38
bit. It's it gets really frustrating
22:40
because it's a very fundamental difference.
22:43
I mean, come on. Like this is not rocket science.
22:46
Yeah, I do. I mean, I, you say it's off
22:49
topic, but I think it's, it's right on topic as many of us are
22:54
grow up with this sneaking suspicion that it's not good to
22:58
be a girl, that it's better to be a boy, that, you know, boys
23:03
can do more things. They have access to more
23:05
opportunities and now they have access to the girl
23:08
opportunities. You know, Title 9 that gave,
23:11
gave girls space and sports and funding and locker rooms.
23:14
Is, is from the 70s. It's not old.
23:17
This was not that long ago. And now that's no longer
23:20
available. So I do think the cultural
23:22
story, the cultural air that we're breathing makes us wonder
23:27
if it is very good to be female. And then I think if the church
23:32
doesn't respond really proactively, I think, I think
23:37
many churches are responding passively and cautiously.
23:42
And I get that. I understand that pastors are
23:44
worried about offending, about saying the wrong thing, about
23:48
appearing that they don't have compassion or grace.
23:52
I being married to a pastor and being an outspoken, publicly
23:56
facing female Bible teacher, I fully appreciate how scary it is
24:02
and how careful and precise we have to be with every single
24:05
word. But I think as we have maybe
24:09
endeavored to be really careful and really cautious, we have
24:13
been maybe too quiet in the church or erred on the side of
24:17
being cautious rather than generous.
24:21
And then women and girls are leaving the church because they
24:25
feel like they aren't valued there, because they're just not
24:28
hearing that they are or that their gifts and abilities aren't
24:32
appreciated. They're just because they're not
24:33
hearing it. And so, you know, women were a
24:39
priority for Jesus. Jesus made space for women.
24:42
Women were present, his birth and his ministry at his death,
24:46
at his burial, at his resurrection.
24:48
You know, women were the first to proclaim Jesus is alive.
24:51
When you start to read the Bible with this lens of like, OK,
24:53
where are the women? You can't Unsee it.
24:56
They are everywhere. And for some reason, we don't
25:00
know that. For some reason that has been
25:02
quieted. So what I want to help women do
25:05
is read the Bible with this lens of how much women have been
25:10
prioritized from the very beginning, from the Genesis
25:14
story. God's Kingdom does not move
25:16
forward without women. The image of God must be
25:20
expressed in men and women. And so I just want to be a voice
25:25
in the church that helps us respond better, more loudly,
25:29
more clearly, with more grace and more conviction and clarity
25:33
so that women know the truth. And that's what we're very good.
25:36
Yeah, exactly. And that we are supported and
25:39
that we're not going to conform to the delusions that are being
25:45
set ahead of us as well. Absolutely.
25:50
So I'm not afraid to say certain things, but.
25:53
I don't hear. We need, we need, we need, we
25:56
need your voice. Every voice is invited to the
25:58
table. So how can churches partner with
26:02
men and women well as Co laborers?
26:09
I think that this is a really fundamental question.
26:13
I think that as I have been in the US for 10 years, as I've
26:16
been in women's ministry, I I travel most weekends.
26:18
I'm in a different church usually every Friday and
26:21
Saturday, speaking at a conference or a retreat for
26:24
women. I'm back in my own church on
26:26
Sunday mornings. But I get the privilege of
26:28
seeing churches all over the nation most weekends.
26:33
And what I see, what I hear from women in these spaces is that
26:40
they kind of what I already said, that they they feel unseen
26:45
or they feel missed somehow. What I think the church is
26:48
missing in this moment largely is the truth that we are
26:54
brothers and sisters. The New Testament speaks about
26:57
us more than anything as siblings, brothers and sisters
27:01
in this faith family that we've been adopted into.
27:04
And the way that you treat a brother or a sister or a mom or
27:07
a dad or an aunt or an uncle is very different than how many
27:12
churches are treating the relationships between men and
27:15
women. I think in today's age and we
27:18
can, we could go back and discuss history.
27:20
That plays a huge role. I mean, we're, we're living post
27:22
sexual revolution. We're living in an age where,
27:26
you know, the marriage and the family are easily dismissed.
27:29
I I get why the church has been very eager and quick to sort of
27:35
protect these things, and I don't fault the church for that.
27:37
But I think the unintended consequence has been that
27:42
relationships between men and women are primarily sexualized
27:46
rather than seen as siblings. And so women are primarily seen
27:52
as a threat or a temptation rather than as an equal, a
27:57
sister with gifts and abilities and a calling that needs to be
28:01
equipped and empowered and unleashed.
28:04
In the church were super cautious about male and female
28:08
friendships. And I think that's because we
28:12
see them first and foremost as sexual rather than as siblings.
28:18
And the fallout from that is massive when when you look at
28:22
each other and go, we have to keep an arm's length away from
28:25
each other, that makes your relationship very different than
28:29
we should lock arms and do this mission together side by side.
28:35
And so, yeah, my heart breaks for that because I think we're
28:39
if you get that very fundamental piece wrong, everything that
28:43
comes after it is going to be also wrong.
28:48
Absolutely. What is the one passage of
28:51
Scripture that you hope women will remember after completing
28:55
the study? That's a fun question.
29:01
Well, I guess it's probably the title.
29:05
You know, God saw all that he made and it was very good.
29:08
I think we zoom past Genesis chapter 2 and it and it's not
29:15
good. We, we think like, Oh yeah, I
29:17
get it. God created the birds and the
29:19
animals and you know, the, the sky and the sea and man and
29:23
woman and moving on. We think that the, the Genesis
29:26
story has nothing to teach us. But Oh my goodness, there is so
29:30
much in there that we must return to.
29:33
We have to start there if we're going to have an honest,
29:37
truthful understanding of what it means to be male and female.
29:41
And so I guess I, I want to remind women you were made very
29:45
good. That's the number one preeminent
29:47
priority truth about you as a female is that you're very good,
29:52
that you were made in God's image, that it was not good for
29:55
Adam to be alone, that he needed a helper to carry out the
29:59
mission that God gave him. And by the way, that word helper
30:02
is a strong word in the Hebrew. It's the word as there and it
30:06
means essentially along the lines of being an ally.
30:09
It's a shield, it's a sword, it's a defender.
30:12
It's a word that's used more than anything in the Old
30:14
Testament of God himself. So it's not a derogatory word.
30:19
It's not a soft word. It's not a weak word.
30:21
In our English language right now, helper feels like, you
30:24
know, the intern or the assistant.
30:25
But in that Hebrew language, in that in the that context, it is
30:29
a strong word, which is like the mission cannot be completed
30:34
unless there's help. We need a helper to fulfill
30:37
God's Commission to humanity. So I want women to realize that
30:41
we were created not as an afterthought, but as a priority
30:46
to partner with men to fill the earth, to subdue it, to
30:51
cultivate culture and cultivate creation, to image God, to
30:56
glorify God wherever he has placed us.
31:00
And so I think if we can really believe that, really soak in
31:03
that truth, it's going to change how we read the rest of the
31:06
Bible, and it's going to change how we move in the world, and
31:09
it's going to change how we show up in culture and in church.
31:13
Amen 100% Jen, I have loved this conversation and this is a
31:18
conversation I can talk about all day long and they can so go
31:22
down 15,000 rabbit trails with it but I love it so much.
31:27
So where can people find you to get more information?
31:31
Yeah, absolutely. So Jen oshman.com is my website,
31:34
JENOSHA n.com and Jen Oshman on Instagram, Facebook, pretty easy
31:41
to find out there. So I would love to have people
31:43
follow along and just help me in this conversation as we learn
31:47
more about what God has to say about women.
31:49
Absolutely. And so you guys, like I said on
31:53
April 1st, very good comes out. And the thing I love about the
31:57
Bible study, I love that the publishing house does is it
32:01
includes seven session videos. So a video with each session of
32:06
the book. And so you can get further
32:08
teaching beyond what's written in the book.
32:10
And it's going to be so helpful for women's ministries and just
32:15
women who want to know that their true worth comes from God
32:20
and that they are that very good.
32:23
So you guys have a great rest of the day and I'll talk to you
32:26
next episode. Thanks, Gina.
32:28
Thank you so much for joining me for this episode, the Anchor by
32:31
the Sore podcast. I pray that the story that you
32:33
heard today will encourage your faith, challenge your faith, and
32:37
also help you as you walk in your daily life.
32:41
If this episode has done that, please feel free to leave a five
32:44
star rating and review wherever you listen to this podcast so
32:48
that others can find it and grow as well.
32:51
Have a blessed week and I'll talk to you next episode.