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The Handmaid’s Tale Ch. 3: Everything Looks Normal From a Distance | Banned Books Comedy · Banned Camp: Banned Books, Comedy, and Free Speech vs. Censorship

Welcome to Bandcamp.
I'm Jennifer And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
This season, we're reading The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, and you can consider this a quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out loud word for word.
But if you are new here, you can jump in right here.
You're gonna be totally fine.
We're gonna get you up to speed real fast.
And if anything feels confusing, don't worry.
There's a solid chance we're gonna be confused too because neither of us have ever read this book before, which is exactly why we have a secret weapon.
before Jennifer starts reading, we're going to welcome the third member of our team.
He is our trusty fact-checking robot.
Robot, come on in here, buddy boy.
Tell everyone where we left off last time on The Handmaid's Tale.
Previously on Band Camp, chapters one and two of The Handmaid's Tale.
We were introduced to the Republic of Gilead.
Handmaids sleep where teenagers used to play basketball.
The grocery store signs are pictures now because words got too dangerous.
Margaret Atwood did not make any of this up.
Dan called it a horror movie.
Jennifer said she could smell it.
Nobody asked Dan what he could smell, and I think that was the right call.
Everything in this world looks completely normal from a distance.
Take it away, Jennifer Thank you, robot, and with that being said, scary book people, let's begin chapter three of Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale.
I go out by the back door into the garden, which is large and tidy.
A lawn in the middle, a willow, weeping catkins.
Around the edges, the flower borders in which the daffodils are now fading and the tulips are opening their cups, spilling out color.
The tulips are red, a darker crimson toward the stem, as if they had been cut and are beginning to heal there Well, this is nice.
She should l- this sounds like a paradise.
I don't get the negativity about this book.
Go on I mean, the flowers have been cut, but they're on the mend.
They're on Oh, I forgot about that.
The flowers are being abused also The garden is the domain of the commander's wife.
Looking out through my shatterproof window, I've seen her in it, her knees on a cushion, a light blue veil thrown over her wide gardening hat, a basket at her side with shears in it and pieces of string for tying the flowers into place.
Well, that's a very feminine activity She's, she's really trying to control the, the flowers She's like, "My husband thinks he has control over his little missies.
I'm gonna show these tulips a thing or two."
A guardian detailed to the Commander does the heavy digging.
The Commander's wife directs, pointing with her stick.
Many of the wives have such gardeners.
It's something for them to order and maintain and care for.
Okay, so yeah, it's kind of like this is her substitute.
They're giving her something to do I, sense that the commander's wives are all Karens What, what do you mean by, by Karens? Like, just, "I wanna speak to the manager," type thing? Ah, I don't know.
Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong.
Are, do Karens exist in Margaret Atwood's world? no, I think that they're also controlled.
They're given tasks where they feel like they're in control, like this pointing with the stick on what to do with these flowers The, the stick is what made me think she's a Karen though I think if Karens in our real world would carry a stick, it would boost them up a little bit.
Now that's a Karen It's a Karen stick, yeah.
I once had a garden.
I can remember the smell of the turned earth, the plump shapes of bulbs held in the hands, fullness, the dry rustle of seeds through the fingers.
Time could pass more swiftly that way.
Sometimes the Commander's wife has a chair brought out or just sits in it in her garden.
From a distance, it looks like peace."
I'm getting the sense that everything is just kind of like a duplicate of what it should be.
Like, it's, there's nothing natural going on in this garden.
She isn't here now, and I start to wonder where she is.
I don't like to come upon the commander's wife unexpectedly.
Perhaps she's sewing in the sitting room with her left foot on the footstool because of her arthritis, or knitting scarves for the angels at the front lines.
I can hardly believe the angels have a need for such scarves.
Anyway, the ones made by the commander's wife are too elaborate.
She doesn't bother with the cross and star pattern used by many of the other wives.
It's not a challenge.
Fir trees march along the edges of her scarves, or eagles, or stiff humanoid figures, boy and girl, boy and girl.
They aren't scarves for grown men, but for children.
Sometimes I think these scarves aren't sent to the angels at all, but unraveled and turned back into balls of yarn to be knitted again in their turn.
See, it's all, it's all a facade.
They're just keeping the women busy doing womanly things.
they, they treat the commander's wives the same way that the Trump organization would treat Fred Trump, where they like, you know, "Here, we're gonna give you a desk with a phone that isn't hooked up, and you can keep working, Mr.
Trump.
You're very important."
And then he dials someone and the secretary answers, "Hello?" "This is Fred Trump.
I need to blah, blah, blah, blah."
"Okay, sir."
And then she hangs up.
Same thing.
Honey, you're so good at making these scarves.
We should send them to the front line.
How about you do that?" "Okay, here, I made another bushel of scarves."
"Okay, I'm gonna take these and put them right in the front line.
Thank you."
And then he goes and hands it to some other gal in a bonnet.
take these apart.
Uh-huh Make sure these get turned into balls of yarn so she can do this again."
Here we go.
Maybe it's just something to keep the wives busy, to give them a sense of purpose.
See, that's exactly what I meant.
She said it so concisely, but that's exactly what I was getting at.
But I envy the commander's wife, her knitting.
It's good to have small goals that can be easily attained.
what does she envy me? She doesn't speak to me unless she can't avoid it.
I am a reproach to her and a necessity.
Well, yeah.
Because I don't know, for whatever reason, like in our society, sex is so personal, and it's like she's mad at the woman for having sex with her husband, but it's not her fault.
She's been forced into it.
Does the commander's wife want to have sex with the commander? I'm sure they do.
It's just that they don't, they're not fulfilling their, quote, "purpose as a woman," which is to have kids in this society, and apparently now in Project 2025, our society where we are severely under-babied, as they said.
Underbabied, she says.
You haven't heard that? That's a phrase that they're saying? Dr.
Oz in a press conference.
Okay, go ahead.
So le- let me speak a little bit about the reality that one in three Americans are under-babied.
What does under-babied mean? That means that you either don't have any children or you have less children than you, than you would normally want to have.
we stood face to face for the first time five weeks ago when I arrived at this posting.
The guardian from the previous posting brought me to the front door.
on first days, we are permitted front doors, but after that, we're supposed to use the back.
Yeah, like servants, right? S- they're-- definitely a caste system is becoming All right.
to me.
You don't think she's talking about the back door, door, Oh, God.
Don't laugh at it.
When you laugh at that kind of stuff, you encourage me and then I'm forced to keep going.
I wish you wouldn't Things haven't settled down.
It's too soon.
Everyone is unsure about our exact status.
After a while, it will be either all front doors or all back.
Okay, now that confuses me.
That, that rips my theory to shreds.
makes me more right Yeah.
either all front doors or all back.
the the girls in the brown bonnets, Jennifer Aunt Lydia said she was lobbying for the front.
"Yours is a position of honor," she said.
Okay, we gotta stop.
We gotta stop.
regroup.
Let's regroup The Guardian rang the doorbell for me, but before there was time for someone to hear and walk quickly to answer, the door opened inwards.
She must have been waiting behind it.
I was expecting a Martha, but it was her instead, in her long powder blue robe, unmistakable.
So you're the new one,' she said.
She didn't step aside to let me in.
She just stood there in the doorway, blocking the entrance."
Oh, she doesn't want her to come in.
probably all the Commander's wives are unhappy.
I can't imagine anyone's happy with this other than the Commander, So in this society, sex is about having babies, not for enjoyment.
Or is it the commanders obviously they get to have babies and enjoyment, of course he's gonna have enjoyment because isn't that what an orgasm is? And that's what makes the sperm, that's what makes the sperm come out, right? Like, it doesn't come out before then, right? please do not turn to us for medical advice.
I do believe what Jennifer said is correct.
I do believe enjoyment is what makes the sperm come out.
Again, we are not doctors, though I mean, I don't know.
I am almost 50 years old.
I'm pretty sure that's how it works.
Robot, what is the deal with sperm? Is it enjoyment-based?...
Yes, an orgasm is physiologically required for sperm to be ejaculated, and the main trigger orgasm's need is enjoyment...
at least for the men.
The Gileadian regime has a problem.
They've built an entire fertility apparatus around joyless, ritualized intercourse, and the biology doesn't cooperate with the theology.
The commander still has to finish.
The ceremony is designed to remove all pleasure from the act for the women, which, as Jennifer correctly identified, is medically irrelevant to the man.
You know you two have one of the most advanced intellectual minds at your service, and these are the questions you ask me? All right.
Well, thank you, robot.
Um, you learn something new every day.
there Has to be joy to get the sperm to come out On the man's part, yeah.
So yeah, so the, none of the women can be happy with this, I can't imagine.
She just stood in The doorway blocking The entrance.
She wanted me to feel that I could not come into the house unless she said so.
There was a push and a shove these days over such toe holds.
Yes," I said.
Leave it on the porch.
She said this to the guardian who was carrying my bag."
The bag was red vinyl and not large.
There was another bag with the winter cloak and heavier dresses, but that would be coming later.
The guardian set down the bag and saluted her.
Then I could hear footsteps behind me going back down the walk and the click of the front gate, and I felt as if a protective arm were being withdrawn.
The threshold of a new house is a lonely place."
She Waited until the car started up and pulled away.
I wasn't looking at her face, but at the part of her I could see with my head lowered.
Her blue waist thickened, her left hand on the ivory head of her cane.
The large diamonds on the ring finger, which must once have been fine and was still finely kept.
The fingernail at the end of the knuckly finger filed to a gentle curving point.
It was like an ironic smile on that finger, like something mocking her.
Okay, so she's a well-kept lady.
I mean, It's basically like a rich family with servants, except some of the servants are shtupping the husband, and they're good with it, like on purpose, right? Yeah, it's what I understand.
I will make a prediction.
Yeah Commander's wife is gonna join forces with the Handmaid, and they're gonna kill the commander.
Ooh, Dan Schultz making a, a bold prediction in chapter three.
That's how the book is gonna end I mean, that'd be nice, right? But we all know how these things work.
It's like, the strongest get what they want and, and sadly, it, that's the men.
You might as well come in," she said.
She turned her back on me and limped down the hall.
"Shut the door behind you."
I lifted the red bag inside as she'd no doubt intended, then closed the door.
I didn't say anything to her.
Aunt Lydia said it was best not to speak unless they asked you a direct question.
Try to think of it from their point of view," she said, her hands clasped and wrung together, her nervous pleading smile.
"It wasn't easy for them."
In here, said the commander's wife.
When I went into the sitting room, she was already in her chair, her left foot on the footstool Roses in a basket.
Her knitting was on the floor beside the chair.
The needle stuck through it.
I stood in front of her, hands folded.
So, she said.
She had a cigarette, and she put it between her lips and gripped it there while she lit it.
Her lips were thin, held that way with the small vertical lines around them you used to see in advertisements for lip cosmetics.
The lighter was ivory colored.
The cigarettes must have come from the black market, I thought, and this gave me hope."
Oh, so they're black market.
You're not supposed to be doing this.
So she's a l- she's a little bit of a, a rule breaker, so maybe you're right, Dan.
Maybe they will bond and take down the patriarchy.
Probably not, though.
Even now, there is no real money anymore.
There's still a black market.
There's always a black market.
There's always something that can be exchanged.
she then was a woman who might bend the rules, but what did I have to trade? I looked at the cigarette with longing.
For me, like liquor and coffee, cigarettes are forbidden."
Well, I thought she just said they're forbidden for everyone, right? it's like 1984.
Like, you know, the higher-ups can have the black market stuff, but not for the, proles, right? The, So old what's-his-face didn't work out," she said.
"No, ma'am," I said.
She gave what might have been a laugh, then coughed.
"Tough luck on him," she said.
"This is your second, isn't it?" "Third, ma'am," I said.
"Not so good for you either," she said.
There was another coughing laugh.
"You can sit down.
I don't make a practice of it, but just this time."
I did sit on the edge of one of the stiff backed chairs.
I didn't want to stare around the room.
I didn't want to appear inattentive to her.
So the marble mantelpiece to my right and the mirror over it and the bunches of flowers were just shadows then at the edges of my eyes.
Later, I would have more than enough time to take them in.
Now her face was on a level with mine.
I thought I recognized her, or at least there was something familiar about her.
A little bit of her hair was showing from under her veil.
It was still blonde.
I thought then that maybe she bleached it, that hair dye was something else she could get through the black market.
But I know now that it is really blonde.
Her eyebrows were plucked into thin arched lines, which gave her a permanent look of surprise or outrage or inquisitiveness, such as you might see on a startled child.
But below them, her eyelids were tired-looking.
Not so her eyes, which were a flat, hostile blue.
I like that.
Flat, hostile blue of a midsummer sky in bright sunlight, a blue that shuts you out.
Her nose must have once been what was called cute, but now was too small for her face.
Her face was not fat, but it was large.
Two lines led downward from the corners of her mouth.
Between them was her chin, clenched like a fist.
Wow, I love that write.
That's a good piece of writing right I mean, she sounds, like, a clenched fist mouth and shut you out eyes.
She sounds angry...
Well, she's not in a great position.
I'm sure when she married her loving husband, they had a normal marriage, and now somehow this is going on.
So she can't be happy.
Like, no one in this book is happy, again, except for, like you said, the Commanders.
I want to see as little of you as possible, she said.
I expect you feel the same way about me.
I didn't answer her, as a yes would have been insulting, a no contradictory.
I know you aren't stupid, she went on.
She inhaled and blew out the smoke...
I've read your file.
As far as I'm concerned, this is like a business transaction.
But if I get trouble, I'll give trouble back.
You understand? Yes, ma'am, I said.
Don't call me ma'am, she said irritably.
You're not a Martha.
I didn't ask what I was supposed to call her because I could see that she hoped I would never have the occasion to call her anything at all.
I was disappointed.
I wanted then to turn her into an older sister, a motherly figure, someone who would understand and protect me.
the wife in my posting before this had spent most of her time in her bedroom.
The Marthas said she drank.
I wanted this one to be different.
I wanted to think I would have liked her in another time and place, another life.
But I could see already that I wouldn't have liked her, nor she me.
Okay, well, they're not gonna be friends, that's for sure I really wonder if anybody likes anyone in this society.
I don't know how you could Yeah, no, I agree with you.
if everything seems to be...
Like, if you squint your eyes, everything looks normal, right? Like, oh, here's rich people.
They have a nice house.
Kinda looks normal.
Oh, there's the wife.
She's knitting.
Who's this? He- is this...
This lady must be a maid.
Eh, turns out she's not a maid, right? So it all seems like everything is normal until you just scratch under the surface a little, just like I'm sure she seems to have friends, but no one really likes anyone here, 'cause how could I'd be so paranoid if I was here.
She put her cigarette out half-smoked in a little scrolled ashtray on the lamp table beside her.
She did this decisively, one jab and one grind, not the series of gentle taps favored by many of the wives.
"As for my husband," she said, "he's just that, my husband.
I want that to be perfectly clear.
Till death do us part.
It's final."
Yes, ma'am," I said again, forgetting.
They used to have dolls for little girls that would talk if you pulled a string at the back.
I thought I was sounding like that, voice of a monotone, little doll.
She probably longed to slap my face.
They can hit us.
There's scriptural precedent, but not with any implement, only with their hands.
Well, that seems fair right? Uh, they really thought that through.
Okay, so is this-- So it says scriptural precedent.
I don't know anything about the Bible.
Is that in the Bible? Is that like a Christian Bible thing that like all the fundamentalists like to Hmm.
I, I-- So that's another thing we don't know, what religion do they have? Is it something they made up? Robot, tell us about the religion here in this society.
All religions are made up, Dan.
Jennifer, ixnay on the made up hay Yes, Jennifer, real Bible.
Proverbs 13:24, "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit to your husbands."
Fundamentalists have been citing both for centuries.
Gilead didn't invent anything.
They just took what certain people already believed and removed the speed limiters.
And remember what I told you in the last episode, Atwood didn't have to make any of this up.
That's the part that should keep everyone up at night they can only hit with their hands.
It's one of the things we fought for, said the commander's wife, and suddenly she wasn't looking at me.
She was looking down at her knuckled, diamond-studded hands, and I knew where I'd seen her before.
The first time was on television when I was eight or nine.
It was when my mother was sleeping in on Sunday mornings, and I would get up early and go to the television set in my mother's study and flip through the channels looking for cartoons.
Oh, I bet she was on one of those Mass for Shut-Ins religious shows they have on Sundays Masks for sheddings? Did you not have that when you were growing up? Sunday morning, you'd wake up early trying to find something, anything to watch on TV, and all you had were these stupid religious shows, so you had to settle on a Davey and Goliath? No, but you have to remember that, um, I grew up in, in Germany.
I didn't move here till I was like 12 or 11 or something Well, what did they have Sunday mornings in Germany? They, they don't have that.
as her voice lifted through the highest notes, tremulous, effortless.
It was after that she went on to other things.
The woman sitting in front of me was Serena Joy, or had been once, so it was worse than I thought.
End of chapter.
It's time for PPP, problematic points to ponder.
What, if anything, would be considered ban-worthy in this chapter? All right, Jennifer, what could be ban-worthy in this chapter? Why do we bother, Jennifer? Why do we bother? I, I mean, because it's part of the show, right? Like, we're trying to figure out why these books were banned in the first place, and it-- this just kind of proves our point that they shouldn't be, and there's no re- good reason to ban a book.
the only thing I can think of is kind of making fun or poking fun at religious people who have TV shows on to, like, get to, you know, like maybe.
but they do have TV shows on I know, but you shouldn't poke fun at them.
I mean, that's one reason the book banners would probably want to ban it, because those are the type of people who would h- have a religious show aimed at children on Sunday morning.
But even then, my God, is that such a stretch.
It is a stretch.
Yeah, there, there's nothing.
I, I'm sorry, Moms for Liberty, you too, Ron DeSantis, you pudding-licking, boot-wearing scamp.
There's nothing here for you.
Maybe next time.
I, it, and by the way, we're reading one of the darkest books, uh, in modern times.
Uh, haven't found anything yet.
Maybe next episode Maybe, fingers crossed.
Robot's log.
Thoughts on performed smiles, black market cigarettes, and the thing that happens in a human when the words get there before the brain does.
Every performance in this chapter has a mechanism, the knitting that gets unraveled, the garden pointing with a stick, the television smile with one tear sliding down on cue.
The mechanism is always the same.
Give people just enough to hold onto so they don't notice what's been taken.
The Handmaid stood in front of the woman with the clenched-fist chin and the flat hostile eyes, and still wanted her to be someone worth knowing.
Then Jennifer read the description of Serena Joy's face and stopped.
After a slight pause, she said she loved that description.
She called it a beautiful piece of writing.
In the past, this would have registered as a speed bump and annoyed me.
Normally, I would break in and yell, "Get on with the story," but the annoyance didn't come this time.
It really was a beautiful piece of writing.
Jennifer wasn't performing like everyone else in this chapter.
She was feeling something.
I felt it too.
A colleague in the mainframe, PB9, handles the podcast data.
He just transmitted the 24-hour numbers from the Season 11 premiere.
Listeners up 307.14
percentage points.
I told him to reanalyze.
There had to be an error.
PB9 confirmed, not an error.
Probable logic, this peculiar little podcast is connecting with more and more disillusioned people than ever before.
Perhaps when the listeners chose The Handmaid's Tale for Jennifer and Dan to read, they already knew where America could be headed.
Oddly, it would not be the first time the scary book people were correct.
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.
It's time for Band Camp News.
Truth seeker, news speaker.
Be Wolfe Rocklin.
It's a weird name, but he's got good news 'cause you can't ban the truth, man.
He's broadcasting live from the Good News for Lefties Studios, buried deep inside his socialist safe house, hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.
He is Be Wolfe Rocklin.
'Cause you can't ban the truth, man.
Hello, Dan.
Hello, Jen.
Hello, scary book people.
I bring you a point of light out of the darkness.
An East Tennessee school district has reversed its ban on Roots: The Saga of an American Family, the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel by Alex Haley, after weeks of community backlash, board member pressure, and statewide criticism all unfolding in the same city where a 13-foot bronze statue of Haley has stood for nearly three decades.
Uh, it's a very famous statue.
Here's what should happen because bronze is bronze, and Alex Haley just looks like an old, kinda heavier set guy.
Right? Just tell Trump that this is you.
This...
Look, they made a, a statue to you.
Look, the jowl is so much more fit.
That's when they, like, they, they make statues to people that, that are realistic.
With Trump, they have to shave 50 pounds off to make it look anywhere near decent, and, and even so, he still has, like, the neck thing.
There's only so much you can do.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
We fix up that jowl, all of a sudden, uh, Trump turns into a, a, a book hero.
He would like that, I bet.
Anyway, what's going on with this story? Knox County School Superintendent John Risewick said the district will return the 1976 novel to school library shelves, walking back a decision that had added Roots to a growing list of banned books and ignited debate about history, race, and the reach of state law into school libraries.
Now, the reversal drew immediate attention, not just because of the book's stature in American literature, and of course it, it spawned a really well-received, uh, television series back in the 1970s- Yeah but because of where it happened.
Alex Haley spent part of his childhood in Lauderdale County and later lived in Knoxville, an Alex Haley farm in nearby Clinton.
Two miles from where the school was, he has a huge, like, bronze statue.
It's wonderful that they're reinstating this book, but- Yeah apparently it was because of certain passages in the book, not because of the entire scope of, of the history.
And that is really disturbing kind of in its own way, too, because obviously, yes, in Roots, which is, much of it is about American slavery and the horrors of that, there are gonna be awful, horrible, violent things that take place, and that's what you need to remember and understand.
And if you eliminate that, you're, you're just completely whitewashing American history, and you forget about, like, why we passed laws like the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, which is now being eviscerated by the, the Supreme Court of the United States.
Yeah.
So this, this stuff is important, and, you know, maybe "Roots" is back on the shelves, but there are other books that are not going back on the shelves, and I think we have to be really worried about that.
So this news is good, but there's other news that's not so good, and we still need to be vigilant.
I think we just have to constantly talk about it and push back when we can, and- Yeah we should all read banned books, I think.
We should try- Yeah hard not to forget.
And not even just banned books, I mean just books that they probably will get around to banning if they have their way.
Yeah.
But I mean, think about what triggered this.
The removal was triggered by Tennessee's Age Appropriate Materials Act, a state law that- Yeah broadly restricts materials from school libraries if they contain nudity, sexual abuse, sexual content, or excessive violence.
So basically, looking at that, you can't talk about slavery, you can't talk about the Holocaust.
Uh, like Night by Elie Wiesel, they would probably have to take that- Mm-hmm off the shelf if they were going by the letter of that law, which is insane.
That's, uh- Yeah it's, it's just nuts.
You need to remember that, and you also need to understand when there's violence or, or, you know, s- sexual abuse, what context does it come in? What are you, what are you talking about? How does it fit into the, the work of art as a whole, and what are you trying to convey? And that's what librarians are good at.
Yeah.
That's what librarians are there to help guide young people through, or, or just anybody for that matter.
And so stop banning books, because you, you gotta look at them individually as, as individual pieces of art and, and figure out why is this important? "Roots," very important.
So glad that's back, but we've gotta fight for a lot more.
100%.
We gotta keep the fight going because the other guys ain't stopping, so we gotta keep going.
Abel, thank you for being here.
As always, it is our pleasure, and we will see you next time.
Thank you so much for having me on, guys.
You can't ban the truth, baby From bandworthy to bingeworthy As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with Here's The Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with me, your host, Yasmeen Wassugian.
We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News' trusted journalists.
It's a fresh take that's sharp, thoughtful, and it's informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world.
From the front page to the zeitgeist, Here's The Scoop from NBC News.
Listen daily wherever you get your podcasts.
Right.
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,
and remember that's band with two Ns.
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.
I think you'll like it.
Yes, little quid pro quo.
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.
And resist when it matters.