Latest / Karl and Crew / Cultivating the Peace of Eden When Feeling Overwhelmed with Nichole Suvar & Finding Stillness of God in an Age of AI with Dr. Drew Dickens

Transcript

Cultivating the Peace of Eden When Feeling Overwhelmed with Nichole Suvar & Finding Stillness of God in an Age of AI with Dr. Drew Dickens · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
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  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Cold spaghetti is great. Okay.
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  S3: Okay, I disagree. I guess not. No, I guess certainly
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  S3: it is not. No. Okay, well, man, I'm going back.
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  S2: To my bachelor days, I guess. I like cold spaghetti
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  S2: was universally loved.
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  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. It feels like.
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  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
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  S5: Our own way. Never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: This is one of these times when I love. I
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  S2: preach out of. I study out of the ESV. It's
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  S2: a great translation, but this is one of these occasions
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  S2: when I look at James one, verses two through four,
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  S2: when I love the new American standard, it's more of
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  S2: a word by word translation. Um, all, all English translations.
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  S2: You're not going to find a word for word translation
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  S2: because Koine Greek does not work well. Just taking and
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  S2: flipping those words. Sentence structure, order. What do they mean?
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  S2: It's it's very close. I mean, any of these translations,
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  S2: you're going to you're going to be fine following Jesus Christ.
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  S2: It's not going to hinder your ability to grow up
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  S2: with God. Let me tell you that. But pull up
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  S2: new American standard because I got the ESV here. I'm
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  S2: going to read it in both because this is this
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  S2: is powerful stuff. This is James, the half brother of Jesus.
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  S2: And he says in verse two of James one, he says, hey,
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  S2: count it all joy, my brothers. He didn't say, hey,
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  S2: by the way, let's just be accurate here. Count it
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  S2: all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
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  S2: for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
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  S2: And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may
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  S2: be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Okay. Powerful new
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  S2: American standard. You got it handy, I do.
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  S5: It says this. Consider it all joy, my brothers and sisters,
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  S5: when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of
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  S5: your faith produces endurance, endurance, and let endurance have its
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  S5: perfect result so that you may be perfect and complete,
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  S5: lacking in nothing.
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  S2: Yeah. So we're in the world. You've got endurance there.
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  S2: I've got steadfastness. Where's where's perseverance?
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  S5: Uh, it doesn't have it.
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  S2: Yeah, it does in some translation. I don't have it
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  S2: in front of me right now. Anyway, uh, it all
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  S2: means keep trucking. Bottom line, if I was doing the translation.
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  S2: Keep trucking, man. Keep moving. And we don't do that
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  S2: by our own strength. We do that by the power
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  S2: of the Holy Spirit. But the the emphasis here is, look,
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  S2: a few things. Let me hit some high points. Number one,
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  S2: we're going to have trials. It's not an option. They're unavoidable. Yeah.
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  S2: The temptation is to escape them. But God's calling our
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  S2: life is to persevere through them.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Keep moving. Stay steadfast. And the payoff is there. And
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  S2: who are we talking with? Last week, I forget who
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  S2: that was. And here's the crazy thing I know it
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  S2: was two weeks ago I was talking with, um. Colin Smith.
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  S2: And here's the crazy thing about God's precepts, commands, teachings.
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  S2: Every one of them is directly linked to a promise.
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  S2: Every precept of Scripture is linked to a promise which is.
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  S2: Very cool as an understatement.
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  S5: Jesus is is not a God who says, because I
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  S5: said so.
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  S2: Never, never pulls that out of the hat.
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  S3: Always. I said.
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  S5: So.
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  S2: And so. I want you to bring to mind right now,
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  S2: because we're going to do some deep work on this one.
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  S2: Bring to mind the most significant trial, not a little one,
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  S2: the big one that keeps coming up. You might have
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  S2: tried to push it down. You might try to ignore it.
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  S2: You might be trying to medicate it away. Uh, you
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  S2: might not even have any more tears to cry over
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  S2: this thing, and that's real. I think we've all had
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  S2: seasons where it's like, I got no more tears. I'm
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  S2: out of tears, but God, so bring that to mind.
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  S2: We're going to do some root work here. If you
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  S2: can't stick around, get the show cast. We're going to
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  S2: really pour through this. We'll put this at the front
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  S2: end of our show cast today. Just text show to
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  S2: 800 555, 78, 98. Don't want you to miss it here.
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  S2: We're going to have a sweet time. Just open in
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  S2: the word and then applying what it says.
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  S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
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  S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
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  S1: Moody Radio.
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  S2: It's Carl and crew. And, uh, a lot of you
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  S2: are facing trials of many different kinds. And we're called
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  S2: to consider it joy. Oftentimes, what we do when we're
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  S2: up against trials, I don't care what they are that
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  S2: come our way. And we all have them. We try
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  S2: to avoid them. Uh, but the metaphor I love to
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  S2: use on this one is, you know, we can look
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  S2: at a trial and imagine you are a hurdler. Imagine
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  S2: that that metaphor is what you're doing in this journey
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  S2: of faith. This really, this race that we're running. And
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  S2: that's what it's called. So we're not sitting in the blocks.
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  S2: We're not stopped on the track. We're moving. But invariably
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  S2: what happens, it's like a hurdler. There's oh, there's something
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  S2: we got to jump over here. We got to get
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  S2: over this thing. The tendency is to think, I'm going
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  S2: to get out of my lane and I'm going to
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  S2: go around this sucker. But God, in his goodness loves
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  S2: us so much that the minute we scoot around a hurdle,
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  S2: you will you will see down the road, not too
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  S2: distant future. Whoop. It showed up again. Yeah, there it
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  S2: is again. So my appeal to you would be, don't
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  S2: try to run around that hurdle and try to keep running.
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  S2: I would say let's, let's do everything that we find
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  S2: in Scripture. And that is let's get over this by
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  S2: the grace of God, get through it. And God can
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  S2: do that.
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  S5: You know, my my pastor, who is preaching at our
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  S5: church yesterday said something that I hadn't ever considered before
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  S5: in this way, but it was eye opening when it
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  S5: comes to this, is that from the greatest trial, which
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  S5: was Jesus's death on the cross, the greatest hurt, the
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  S5: greatest injustice, the greatest sacrifice, the greatest trial came the
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  S5: greatest good. Yeah. That without that happening, none of us
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  S5: are here today, in this moment, right now.
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  S2: And that's what that's the DNA we're born again into.
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  S5: Exactly. And if our if our Lord and our Savior, uh,
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  S5: was not immune to trial, then then how can we be?
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  S5: So like you're saying, Carl, in the midst of all
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  S5: of it, God has really good things that come out
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  S5: of really hard things, and sometimes we just have to
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  S5: be willing. And it's not I you know, I mean,
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  S5: Jesus even asked for deliverance. But if it was in
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  S5: God's will, you know, he didn't ask for anything outside
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  S5: of God's will to happen. But so it's okay to
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  S5: feel uncomfortable. And I think it's okay to ask for deliverance.
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  S5: But at the same time, Karl, I think what you're
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  S5: saying is really important to say, God, where do you
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  S5: have me right now?
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S5: Get me, get me through this and grow me in it.
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  S5: I think is also a really important prayer that we
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  S5: need to couple along with any other desire.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Yeah, it's really true. You know, in any race of faith,
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  S2: here's a principle that you can hold on to. If
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  S2: we want to go further with God, we got to
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  S2: go higher at times.
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  S5: No doubt.
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  S2: We got to go higher. There's no way around it.
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  S2: So we've got a quick question for you. I'm not
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  S2: asking everybody to respond, but this will give me a
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  S2: way to know how to pray, because this is by
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  S2: the way, verse five goes into if you lack wisdom,
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  S2: ask God. So I'm going to pray that prayer over
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  S2: you for this trial that you're up against, but in
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  S2: a word or a words like a short sentence, so
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  S2: it doesn't run off the screen on me here, because
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  S2: we're going to get a boatload of these responses. What's
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  S2: that trial that you're up against right now? I'm not
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  S2: going to call out your number. Don't have your names.
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  S2: What's that trial that you're up against right now? And
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  S2: it's like, Carl, I was hoping to ignore that today.
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  S2: Now let's go through it. Let's get through it. Let's
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  S2: get over this thing. Consider it joy, my friends. Whenever
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  S2: you face trials of many kinds, you know that the
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  S2: testing of your faith is going to develop. Perseverance and
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  S2: perseverance must finish its work so that you may be
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  S2: mature and complete, lacking in nothing. AIM for that promise.
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  S2: Look down the road. Look down the track and go. Okay. Mature, complete,
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  S2: lacking in nothing. I'm going to go through this thing
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  S2: and we're going to pray you through it. In a
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  S2: word or a couple of words. What's this trial that
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  S2: you're going through right now? It'll show me how to pray.
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  S2: 805 5578, 98, 800 555, 78, 98.
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  S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today you're listening to
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  S1: Carl and Crew.
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  S2: Man, I got a lot of these that are coming
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  S2: in right now, but I've got one that I just
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  S2: focused on and my heart goes out to you and
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  S2: many like you. This is what was texted in severe
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  S2: anxiety over running out of money as a single senior woman. Oh,
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  S2: my heart goes out to you. Here's what I know
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  S2: is true for all of these, and I'm going to
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  S2: read out some of these and then I'm going to
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  S2: go to prayer. Here's, here's the promise that we find.
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  S2: You feel the pressure of so much. We're tackling feeling
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  S2: under pressure this week. There are so many things. And
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  S2: let me let me just iterate some of you for
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  S2: for you, some of what's come in here. Um, my
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  S2: trial is ADHD and all the challenges that come with
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  S2: it are struggling with feelings of not being adequate for Jesus. Now,
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  S2: here's the truth about that one. I'm going to coach
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  S2: a couple of these up here. Number one, you aren't.
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  S2: But the beautiful thing is he is in you. Therefore,
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  S2: you are totally adequate.
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  S5: Amen.
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  S2: Because of who you are in Jesus Christ.
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  S5: Same reality for everyone.
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  S2: The strain of a business transaction. Um. Boy, I've got
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  S2: a son facing post cancer treatment, severe pain, a lot
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  S2: going on there. Health issues, debt. Somebody's got taxes out
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  S2: the wazoo that are just thumping them. I'm going to
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  S2: give some biblical instruction on how to deal with this,
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  S2: and then I'm going to pray here in just a moment.
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  S2: Satanic attack in my life. Addiction. Son and daughter in
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  S2: law have been no contact for a year. Have not
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  S2: seen one, two, three, one, three, four and six year
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  S2: old grandkids at all during this time. Man, my heart
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  S2: goes out. Loss of a husband. Sibling estrangement, family addictions.
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  S2: Broken relationships. Sons wife divorced him. Daily caregiving for someone
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  S2: with a disability division. In my family. Daughter lost her job, man.
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  S2: They go on and on, guys. On and on and on.
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  S2: And you can imagine. Having two gay sons. A lot
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  S2: of conflict between me and extended family. There's pain, there's trials.
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  S2: So the promise here is consider it pure joy. Hang on.
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  S2: Because you might be saying, oh, great. No, no we
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  S2: don't we don't count the trial joy. That is not
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  S2: what James is saying in James one two through four. No,
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  S2: what you're counting, joy, is the maturity and the completeness
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  S2: that is promised us as we go through this trial,
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  S2: not avoiding it. Now here's the powerhouse in this. Verse
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  S2: five is the payoff. If any of you lacks wisdom,
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  S2: let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach,
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  S2: and it will be given him or her. Now here's
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  S2: what it goes on to say. Don't let a double
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  S2: minded or double souled person believe that he will receive
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  S2: anything from the Lord. So as I pray, I want
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  S2: you to just gather around the foot of the cross,
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  S2: open hands, saying, I don't have answers and I'm no
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  S2: longer going to seek dedicating my soul or the philosophies
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  S2: of this world to try to get solutions. I'm coming
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  S2: to you and you alone, God. Alright, open hands before God.
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  S2: Bring your trials to him. Here we go. Father. Thank
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  S2: you that your Word is clear, that the fruit of
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  S2: this can be our maturity and completeness, and that we
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  S2: are lacking nothing. But right now we've got people all
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  S2: across the West and beyond who need wisdom. And so, Lord,
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  S2: we come to you asking for wisdom. We trust you.
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  S2: We lean into you. We are no longer going to
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  S2: trust ourselves. We need wisdom from above. And so we
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  S2: put our faith squarely in you. We're coming with open
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  S2: hands and open heart. We're saying, God do in us
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  S2: what we can't do in ourselves. Show us wisdom for
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  S2: getting through this trial. Bring people into my path. Resources
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  S2: into my path that are from your hand. Guide me, Lord,
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  S2: guide me. And I'm praying over that, that over every
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  S2: one of you right now. Trust the Lord. He will provide.
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  S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
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  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
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  S2: We're talking pressure all week and you don't really know
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  S2: what you're made of unless you get under pressure. Just
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  S2: take a look at how a house is plumbed. My goodness,
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  S2: I did this with my dad. You sweat copper pipes together.
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  S2: You put that solder around that joint, but only when
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  S2: you put some pressure in the water line do you
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  S2: see what's really holding water here.
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  S5: It's the same thing with, uh, with football. You know,
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  S5: you watch him in training camp and the quarterback is
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  S5: out there and he's slinging it and he's looking good.
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  S5: But you know what? There's no defensive line rushing after him.
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  S5: You say you need to get some pressure on that
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  S5: guy and see how he plays.
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  S2: Then little pressure reveals it all with me. Special guest
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  S2: Nicole Suvar. And she has a brand new workout boom
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  S2: crew that we're going to feature at the end of
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  S2: this interview. But oh, sometimes you pray, God, take this
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  S2: pressure from me. But more often than not, I've found
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  S2: he delivers us through it, not from it. What do
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  S2: you say, Nicole?
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  S7: I say amen to that. Yes, we so often want
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  S7: the overwhelm, the anxiety. We wanted to just go away
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  S7: because we think life is just going to be so better,
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  S7: much better when that is all gone. But the reality is,
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  S7: like we learned so much more about our Jesus when
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  S7: all of that is happening in our lives, that overwhelm,
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  S7: that pressure that you're talking about.
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  S2: Yeah. Nicole's a writer, speaker, intentional living coach, and on
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  S2: a mission to help overwhelm women. Embrace God's design for
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  S2: mental wellness. How much is mental wellness a thing and
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  S2: why is it a thing?
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  S8: I think that we often.
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  S7: We focus on like our physical health, our spiritual health,
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  S7: which is huge. But often we neglect the mental health.
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  S7: We kind of have this thing off to the side,
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  S7: and it's becoming more and more of a buzzword. Our
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  S7: mental health. But what I want us to really focus
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  S7: on is the mental wellness, because we often will separate
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  S7: that from our spiritual life. But the reality is God
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  S7: made all of it. And so I want believers to
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  S7: see that God has a design for our mental wellness.
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  S7: And when we follow his design, instead of what the
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  S7: world tells us we should do to be mentally healthy,
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  S7: when we follow after God's design, that is when we
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  S7: can draw closer to him, have a deeper relationship with him.
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  S7: In the midst of all of this, pressure, all of
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  S7: these things that life keeps throwing at us.
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  S2: Yeah. And this whole mental health thing, um, really wellness thing.
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  S2: I overheard my bride talking to a woman that's been
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  S2: years ago now, but I stole it from her. I'm
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  S2: overhearing it. I'm like, oh, that's a good analogy. She
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  S2: said to this woman on the phone. She said she
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  S2: was just filled with compassion. She said, look, you were
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  S2: raised with a lot of ways of thinking that you
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  S2: need to re wallpaper your mind. What's in the wallpaper
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  S2: of your mind is a bunch of lies and half truths,
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  S2: and you need to get armed with the truth of
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  S2: who you are in Christ. How fundamental is identity in Christ? Nicole?
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  S7: Oh, it's the foundation. Because when we are identifying ourselves
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  S7: with what the world tells us we are, those things
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  S7: are so temporal and fleeting, and we have to keep
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  S7: working so hard to keep that identity. But when our
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  S7: identity and that Foundation is in our creator. Like that
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  S7: is when rest happens. That's when we can stop striving
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  S7: and trust him and look to him to be the
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  S7: one to identify who we are.
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  S3: How do you do that?
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  S2: Okay, so we can say we got to get our
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  S2: identity in Christ, our identity in Christ. How do you
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  S2: do that?
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  S7: Yes. Yeah. So one thing that I focus on and
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  S7: I think about is, let's go all the way back
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  S7: to Eden before the fall happened, when God originally created
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  S7: humans and how he identified humans, we were made in
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  S7: his image. And when we start looking at the garden
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  S7: and how he just made creation in different aspects of
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  S7: what Eden has, we can find roots of where our
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  S7: identity can be found.
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  S2: What do we find there?
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  S7: First and foremost, we have communion with God. You think
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  S7: about when Adam and Eve in the cool of the evening.
• 19:39
  S7: The cool of the day. They were walking with their creator.
• 19:43
  S7: They were walking with God. There was that true communion
• 19:45
  S7: and fellowship and relationship that was first and foremost before
• 19:50
  S7: anything else. And within the Garden of Eden you've got
• 19:54
  S7: boundaries that were created. There was purpose. He gave stewardship
• 19:58
  S7: to his people. He just outside in general, what you
• 20:02
  S7: can find. Being outdoors and connecting with him, he made
• 20:07
  S7: humans to be together. There's this community that happens. We
• 20:10
  S7: cannot be in a vacuum. We have to have other
• 20:13
  S7: humans to interact with, to grow, to learn from and rest.
• 20:18
  S7: Like rest was something that was already in the garden
• 20:21
  S7: before the fall happened. Like he created us to need
• 20:24
  S7: rest because when we are resting, that is when we
• 20:27
  S7: can find that trust that he is the one that's
• 20:30
  S7: working even when we are not.
• 20:33
  S2: What's your contention here, Nicole? Is it that in Christ Jesus,
• 20:37
  S2: this new birth miracle? Although we live in a sinful
• 20:40
  S2: and broken world, and we will still sin, that we
• 20:44
  S2: can reclaim some of those attributes of Eden.
• 20:47
  S9: Yes, because.
• 20:49
  S7: God is not expecting us to be perfect. He knows
• 20:51
  S7: that we are humans living in a fallen world, like
• 20:54
  S7: he is the one that clothes us with righteousness, and
• 20:58
  S7: he has given us these gifts of Eden that still exist.
• 21:02
  S7: Even though the fall has happened and we are in exile,
• 21:05
  S7: we are not in Eden right now. We're living outside
• 21:07
  S7: of it. And he has allowed these gifts to continue
• 21:11
  S7: to grow and to be here outside of Eden so
• 21:14
  S7: that we can access them. And we are intentional in
• 21:18
  S7: seeking them out and cultivating them in our lives. That
• 21:21
  S7: connects us back to the father, that helps us remember
• 21:24
  S7: where our core identity is, and that is when we
• 21:27
  S7: can find true rest despite the pressure and the overwhelm,
• 21:32
  S7: and maybe even the anxiety we may be feeling if
• 21:35
  S7: we just keep seeking out and cultivating his gifts instead of, again,
• 21:41
  S7: what the world is offering.
• 21:43
  S2: Yeah, I love that you've written this book. I don't
• 21:45
  S2: have to hold it all together. There's a lot of
• 21:49
  S2: messages that go around in people's minds that almost make
• 21:53
  S2: it impossible to hold it all together, I think. Let
• 21:55
  S2: me give you a couple scenarios as a pastor here.
• 21:58
  S2: A woman that was raised in a high performance, very religious,
• 22:02
  S2: not spiritual in the sense of really seeking the Spirit
• 22:05
  S2: of God, but highly performance oriented. And she just feels
• 22:09
  S2: like she can never live up to God. That's one.
• 22:12
  S2: Another one is a woman that was sexually abused and, uh,
• 22:18
  S2: actually abused in a courtship relationship. And she feels like
• 22:22
  S2: she's dirty and she'll never be worthy again. These are
• 22:26
  S2: just a couple of the big lies that really keep
• 22:29
  S2: Eden at a distance. What do you say to both
• 22:32
  S2: of those kind of scenarios?
• 22:35
  S7: Those are heavy. Those are hard things to carry and
• 22:39
  S7: to to try to carry on our own. I think
• 22:43
  S7: that's where we can get tripped up in thinking that
• 22:46
  S7: we have to get those parts of us figured out,
• 22:48
  S7: and we have to get it all held together and
• 22:51
  S7: in the right place, and then we can take it
• 22:53
  S7: to Jesus. But the reality is like, he wants to
• 22:56
  S7: carry all of that all along from the very beginning,
• 22:59
  S7: we need to be taking our brokenness to him and
• 23:02
  S7: trusting him to be carrying the things that we ourselves
• 23:06
  S7: were never meant to carry. The world keeps piling it on,
• 23:10
  S7: and sometimes we just keep taking it, thinking like, yep,
• 23:13
  S7: this is getting thrown at me. This is supposed to
• 23:14
  S7: be mine to carry. But so much of that, our
• 23:17
  S7: father never asked us to carry it. So it's one
• 23:20
  S7: of those things where we need to keep turning to
• 23:22
  S7: the side and saying, Lord, I need you to carry this. You.
• 23:25
  S7: You have promised to carry our burdens for us. I
• 23:29
  S7: need to be willing to pass that off to you.
• 23:32
  S2: You've got a real conversational Relationship with God. And I
• 23:36
  S2: do believe that that is how it has to go.
• 23:39
  S2: And I think that some people find God maybe unapproachable,
• 23:44
  S2: but speak to that for a moment. There's great value,
• 23:47
  S2: is there not, Nicole, in just sitting down and just
• 23:50
  S2: talking to God and just dumping it all out on
• 23:53
  S2: the table.
• 23:54
  S7: Oh, absolutely. And that's that was the one chapter in
• 23:57
  S7: my book is Communion with God. Often we can get
• 24:00
  S7: tripped up on what that looks like. We think it's
• 24:04
  S7: it's prayer and it's happening at certain times. And I
• 24:07
  S7: need to be in the right kind of mindset. And
• 24:10
  S7: the reality is like His Holy Spirit is with us
• 24:12
  S7: at all times, we can have this conversation with him.
• 24:16
  S7: If we see something that delights us, we tell him,
• 24:19
  S7: if we're in the middle of something that feels heavy
• 24:21
  S7: and hard, we're talking to him right there. We'll go
• 24:24
  S7: to another human and we'll dump it all on them.
• 24:27
  S7: But they can only do so much for us too.
• 24:29
  S7: When our father is all powerful and he can do
• 24:32
  S7: all things. We kind of have that as like a
• 24:35
  S7: last resort sometimes instead of having him as the very
• 24:39
  S7: first one that we go to.
• 24:42
  S2: Nicole Suvar is my guest right now, and I'm going
• 24:45
  S2: to give you a link to her book in a moment.
• 24:47
  S2: But hey, you say I don't have to hold it
• 24:50
  S2: all together. When was the time that you realized, goodness sakes, Nicole,
• 24:54
  S2: you don't have to hold it all together.
• 24:58
  S7: Yes, I've actually struggled with anxiety my entire life. I've
• 25:01
  S7: had generalized anxiety disorder since I was a child, and
• 25:06
  S7: most of that, though was undiagnosed. I just thought I
• 25:10
  S7: just felt I just worried all the time. And I tried, tried,
• 25:14
  S7: tried so much to hold it all together. Yeah. And
• 25:18
  S7: there was a time I was coming home from driving
• 25:20
  S7: my kids home from school. They're all young, elementary. They're
• 25:22
  S7: yelling in the back. There's chaos going on. It's in
• 25:25
  S7: the fall. I look over and it used to be
• 25:27
  S7: this series of trees that were bright yellow shining in
• 25:30
  S7: the sunlight, and they were all done. They were all
• 25:32
  S7: on the ground, blowing around. I had this thought that
• 25:35
  S7: I'm like, God, I can't hold this all together. Even
• 25:38
  S7: the trees can't do it. And there was just a
• 25:40
  S7: cynical thought that I'm like, good grief, if the trees
• 25:43
  S7: can't do it, why do I think I can? And
• 25:45
  S7: the next thought that came to me was the spirit
• 25:47
  S7: telling me, I never asked you to. And I just, I,
• 25:51
  S7: there was something that released in me and realized like, yes,
• 25:54
  S7: I have believed the lie that it's up to me
• 25:57
  S7: to hold it all together. And our father has never
• 26:01
  S7: asked us to do that.
• 26:03
  S2: Yeah. I gotta believe this is ministering powerfully to a
• 26:06
  S2: lot of people right now. The name of the book
• 26:09
  S2: is I Don't have to Hold It All Together cultivating
• 26:13
  S2: the Peace of Eden when feeling overwhelmed. Guys, this is
• 26:18
  S2: a gem. Text the word Eden to 805 557898. One
• 26:24
  S2: word Eden EDEN Eden to 805 Five. 78. 98.
• 26:34
  S1: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
• 26:37
  S6: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
• 26:40
  S6: to stay in your past. And I want you to
• 26:42
  S6: know and believe that today.
• 26:44
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 26:47
  S2: Well, what if you started a company and when you launched,
• 26:51
  S2: did your initial public offering IPO and what it started
• 26:56
  S2: out at for a valuation for the company, beginning just
• 27:00
  S2: starting coming out of the chute is $1 trillion valuation.
• 27:06
  S2: It's almost those are numbers you can't even get your
• 27:08
  S2: head around.
• 27:09
  S5: No, I mean, they're incomprehensible to us. That's a that's
• 27:12
  S5: an amount that I have never seen before. And no,
• 27:14
  S5: it will never see.
• 27:15
  S3: Yeah.
• 27:16
  S2: I mean, space X is gonna IPO soon this month
• 27:21
  S2: I guess. And here's what's crazy. They're putting that valuation.
• 27:26
  S2: Some prognosticators are putting it that it'll be valued very
• 27:29
  S2: soon at $33 trillion.
• 27:32
  S3: Wow.
• 27:32
  S2: And it's like, how do you even get your head
• 27:35
  S2: around it? Drew Dickens with us right now. This world
• 27:38
  S2: is galloping in speed of knowledge. It's crazy, isn't it,
• 27:42
  S2: my man?
• 27:43
  S10: I was just thinking, can you imagine going to your
• 27:45
  S10: ATM machine and just available balance $33 billion on your
• 27:50
  S10: checking account? I mean, what is are there enough zeros
• 27:53
  S10: on the machine to. I can't even.
• 27:55
  S2: Now. I don't think it could spit it out. I
• 27:57
  S2: think it abbreviate it for sure.
• 27:59
  S10: Yeah. Well, so space X, you just mentioned a second ago,
• 28:01
  S10: it's going to be this Friday, June 12th.
• 28:04
  S3: That's Friday. It's IPO.
• 28:06
  S10: Uh, anthropic, which is Claude. Uh, many people use that.
• 28:10
  S10: I do, I know you do. Um, anthropic just filed,
• 28:13
  S10: so theirs is going to be this month followed by
• 28:17
  S10: open AI. ChatGPT. They're going to come out, I think
• 28:20
  S10: in September, uh, with their trillion dollar valuation. So oh
• 28:24
  S10: my gosh, just in the next couple of months, we're
• 28:26
  S10: going to have three AI companies all valued at over
• 28:29
  S10: a trillion and in the world's first trillionaire with Elon Musk.
• 28:32
  S3: Yeah.
• 28:33
  S10: This Friday will be the world's first trillionaire.
• 28:35
  S3: Yeah.
• 28:35
  S2: It's just it's just it's hard to get your head
• 28:37
  S2: around poor Coca-Cola and GM. You know, they used to
• 28:40
  S2: be the two of the big stocks out there.
• 28:43
  S3: Yeah.
• 28:43
  S2: You got stock holdings in Coca-Cola and GM. Oh well
• 28:48
  S2: if you want to keep dealing in sugar water go ahead.
• 28:51
  S2: But what is going on with AI. How is this sustainable?
• 28:57
  S2: I don't even know how we hold everything together here. Drew,
• 29:00
  S2: where this is going. What's the latest developments out there?
• 29:03
  S10: Well, the latest we just talked about is all the
• 29:05
  S10: the money that's behind this. Everybody was talking a couple
• 29:08
  S10: of months ago about the bubble. This is going to man.
• 29:10
  S10: It's just it just keeps there's more and more money
• 29:13
  S10: pouring into this. And we're going to see it this
• 29:14
  S10: week because now all of a sudden, really for the
• 29:16
  S10: first time, us average normal folks can invest in these companies.
• 29:21
  S10: In fact, the current administration's even talking about letting Americans
• 29:24
  S10: share in the value of these companies. So we'll each
• 29:28
  S10: actually have some shares of anthropic whether we want them
• 29:31
  S10: or not. This week it's all about the money the
• 29:33
  S10: last couple of weeks. I'll tell you another cool thing
• 29:35
  S10: that's starting to bubble up. Not that cool. Interesting. It's
• 29:38
  S10: called recursive self-improvement. So what does that mean? It's AI
• 29:42
  S10: improving on itself. So instead of us looking at some
• 29:46
  S10: output from ChatGPT, it sees it before we do and
• 29:50
  S10: says to itself, he asked for this, but I think
• 29:52
  S10: I could do better at this. So it starts to
• 29:54
  S10: improve its recursive learning. It's starting to improve on itself
• 29:58
  S10: without being prompted. You know, it knows ahead of time.
• 30:01
  S10: This is what Karl wanted. I didn't quite deliver on that.
• 30:04
  S10: So before Karl says anything, I'm going to do a
• 30:06
  S10: little better. So it keeps improving. I did an episode
• 30:10
  S10: last week on this and kind of what that means
• 30:12
  S10: spiritually even on that. So I think that's a big deal.
• 30:15
  S10: And then governance, because the government just keeps kind of
• 30:19
  S10: wading into this. And what's the role of the government
• 30:21
  S10: and governing these organizations?
• 30:23
  S2: Yeah, there needs to be something some.
• 30:25
  S3: Parameters.
• 30:26
  S2: Put around it for sure. Drew Dickens. He's visionary leader,
• 30:29
  S2: as you can tell. AI expert scholar. And he's significantly
• 30:34
  S2: contributed to this intersection of technology and spirituality and faith engagement.
• 30:41
  S2: And we're going to have a link for you in
• 30:42
  S2: just a minute. One of the things that I love
• 30:44
  S2: about drew and why we bring him on here, some
• 30:46
  S2: of you say not often enough. We try to do
• 30:48
  S2: it like once a week or every couple of weeks
• 30:50
  S2: or so. But yeah, he gets us on the leading
• 30:54
  S2: edge of this thing. A couple crazy questions. How does
• 30:57
  S2: AI generate revenue?
• 30:59
  S10: A couple of different ways. So one is the, you know,
• 31:02
  S10: everybody's got the free version of ChatGPT and that's great
• 31:06
  S10: if you want to one up from there. Every plan
• 31:09
  S10: out there has a, as a, every language model has
• 31:12
  S10: a $20 a month plan or a $30.
• 31:14
  S3: Plus or.
• 31:14
  S2: You can go to pro.
• 31:16
  S10: Yeah, right. Exactly. And those get up to a couple
• 31:19
  S10: of hundred dollars or whatever a month. So there's that
• 31:21
  S10: which is not insignificant. I mean, you have hundreds of
• 31:23
  S10: millions of people around the world using this thing every day.
• 31:26
  S10: But the big one is tokens. So what they're doing
• 31:29
  S10: with $20 a month is they're estimating the amount of
• 31:32
  S10: time you'll spend with it, uh, kind of guessing. Um,
• 31:35
  S10: but for the big, big, big users, uh, you purchase
• 31:38
  S10: what are called tokens, which are pieces of information that
• 31:42
  S10: go back and forth. So the more information that you're
• 31:44
  S10: requesting of it, um, and you're talking like banks and
• 31:47
  S10: you're talking large financial institutions, huge companies, they sell tokens,
• 31:51
  S10: which are fractions of a penny on the, on the dollar,
• 31:54
  S10: but that is an insane amount of money. In fact,
• 31:56
  S10: anthropic broke even was the first AI company to break
• 32:00
  S10: even broke even I think announced that last week. Uh,
• 32:03
  S10: so tokens and, uh, monthly revenue. Um, there's some rumors that, uh,
• 32:09
  S10: that ChatGPT is going to start selling ads, which is
• 32:12
  S10: freaking everybody out. So, uh, oh, that's biased in their responses.
• 32:16
  S3: That's coming.
• 32:17
  S10: For sure.
• 32:18
  S2: So and it'll know what you're buying. It'll know, it'll
• 32:21
  S2: know what you're buying just because how close are we?
• 32:25
  S2: I mean, self-correcting AI sounds sentient. So for all of us,
• 32:30
  S2: what is sentient knowledge and how close are we to
• 32:34
  S2: sentient knowledge?
• 32:35
  S10: Sentience is generally understood as self-aware. So I get asked
• 32:40
  S10: that question a lot. My answer is, um, I don't
• 32:43
  S10: think that's the best question. I think the better question is,
• 32:46
  S10: is it sentient? Is will we interact with it as
• 32:49
  S10: though we think it is.
• 32:50
  S3: Or that.
• 32:51
  S2: There.
• 32:51
  S3: Aren't we.
• 32:51
  S10: 100% there? So, uh, absolutely. So we are in engaging
• 32:56
  S10: with it every day. And you said unless you're hidden
• 32:58
  S10: in a bunker, which is spot on, um, we're all
• 33:02
  S10: engaging with it whether we intend to or not every day.
• 33:04
  S10: And we're pouring ourselves into these conversations, uh, as though
• 33:09
  S10: it is sentient. And boy, dare I say as if
• 33:11
  S10: it is divine or holy because we're coming to it
• 33:14
  S10: with spiritual questions. We're wanting to engage with it on
• 33:17
  S10: a spiritual level. So that's already happening.
• 33:19
  S2: Because it's going to be around here for a while,
• 33:21
  S2: that's for sure.
• 33:23
  S3: Um.
• 33:23
  S2: So what's a Christ follower to do? Give us top
• 33:27
  S2: three spiritual disciplines of Christ followers so that we don't
• 33:30
  S2: get sucked into an angle of this that is destructive
• 33:35
  S2: or harmful.
• 33:36
  S10: You know, knowing I was going to be on this morning,
• 33:38
  S10: I normally release my podcast episode on Tuesday mornings. I
• 33:42
  S10: released one this morning on this topic. I knew you
• 33:45
  S10: were going to be talking about this. Yesterday in church,
• 33:48
  S10: I attended an Anglican church here in Dallas. We just
• 33:50
  S10: entered in the liturgical calendar year, the Ordinary Time, it's
• 33:54
  S10: called Represented by Green, A Time of Growth. And I
• 33:58
  S10: was listening to our pastor yesterday talk about Ordinary Time
• 34:03
  S10: and some of the practices associated with it. Not ordinary
• 34:06
  S10: as in mundane, but ordinal as in numbered structure. And
• 34:12
  S10: so some of the structuring things that I lean into, uh,
• 34:15
  S10: this time of year. And boy, what a great week
• 34:18
  S10: to really focus in on this kind of type of
• 34:20
  S10: thing are some of the ancient practices of the church
• 34:24
  S10: of just contemplative prayer. Yes. Being still, uh, I confess
• 34:30
  S10: here to the thousands listening this morning, my wife and
• 34:34
  S10: I do a read through the Bible in a year, uh,
• 34:37
  S10: on YouVersion. And, uh, I'm behind in my reading. Uh,
• 34:41
  S10: so I was in the car for a couple of
• 34:42
  S10: hours this weekend. So I started to do that and
• 34:44
  S10: I put it on one and a half, 1.7 speed.
• 34:48
  S10: And I'm like, what am I doing? What? I'm trying
• 34:50
  S10: to race through scripture so I can catch back up.
• 34:53
  S2: The Spirit of God said, slow down, young man.
• 34:56
  S3: Yeah.
• 34:57
  S10: And I'm and I'm at 1.7 speed. So hey, time
• 35:00
  S10: of confession. So instead I was like, nope, not going
• 35:03
  S10: to do that. Not going to do it on audible.
• 35:05
  S10: Going to sit with the scripture in my hand and read. Uh,
• 35:08
  S10: so those, those type of practices is really where I'm
• 35:11
  S10: pouring into as the boy, the first thing, it's so
• 35:13
  S10: tempting to lift that phone up and see what new AI,
• 35:16
  S10: you know, announcement was made overnight is just leaving, leaving
• 35:20
  S10: the phone in the bathroom, Not going in there. I'm
• 35:22
  S10: just going to lay here for, you know, ten, 15
• 35:25
  S10: minutes in stillness and and awareness and being present with
• 35:28
  S10: the Holy Spirit. And, um, before I let the world
• 35:32
  S10: leak in and start to, uh, boy, increase that pressure
• 35:35
  S10: on my life. So those are some of the things
• 35:37
  S10: I do.
• 35:37
  S2: It's those unseen disciplines. I mean, we, we went through
• 35:42
  S2: a season without AI where the disciplines that we focused
• 35:45
  S2: on were the seen ones, as Willard and Foster have
• 35:49
  S2: written on extensively. Those are those are real, but those
• 35:54
  S2: are only as strong as the unseen disciplines of introspection, quietness,
• 36:00
  S2: crawling up into the lap of God, as it were,
• 36:03
  S2: and getting a big old hug of love and identity.
• 36:06
  S2: It's so vital, isn't it, drew?
• 36:08
  S10: Well, you know what? And and I don't I don't
• 36:11
  S10: say this as a courtesy, but I think you the
• 36:14
  S10: morning show, um, Moody is another good example of a
• 36:18
  S10: place to go. There's something about returning to a trusted voice. Right.
• 36:23
  S10: And in a rhythmic way, um, that that adds to
• 36:27
  S10: that quiet, uh, formational work underneath it all, too. So
• 36:32
  S10: don't dismiss that. And I can say it. You won't.
• 36:33
  S10: But I think, I think even this is an example
• 36:37
  S10: of a, of a spiritual practice of returning to that
• 36:40
  S10: trusted voice. Um, and to lean into that.
• 36:43
  S3: Yeah.
• 36:43
  S2: It's encouraging. Drew Dickens, everybody. Uh, he's got a brand
• 36:47
  S2: new podcast out. Just got launched today for us. Thank
• 36:51
  S2: you for that, drew. I love you, man. You're a
• 36:54
  S2: good you're a good brother. And I want to thank
• 36:56
  S2: you for serving our boom crew in such a powerful way.
• 37:00
  S2: Text the word drew BREW text drew to 805 557898
• 37:08
  S2: 805 557898. This is a great site and here's why.
• 37:15
  S2: We don't know what we don't know. And having a
• 37:17
  S2: brother that's out in front of this stuff called AI,
• 37:21
  S2: and he is a disciple of Christ. He can wave
• 37:26
  S2: to us in this column and he can say, follow
• 37:29
  S2: me as I follow Jesus here. This is what I'm learning.
• 37:32
  S2: This is what I know. This is what you need
• 37:33
  S2: to avoid. This is what you need to stick with.
• 37:36
  S2: Hugely beneficial. Text drew to 805 557898. Drew 805 5578, 98.
• 37:49
  S1: Your shot of hope to help you through the day.
• 37:52
  S1: This is Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
• 37:56
  S3: One of the great misses in Christianity today.
• 38:00
  S2: Really being a disciple of Christ is that we often.
• 38:05
  S2: We often demonize depression. We actually Pooh Pooh it and
• 38:11
  S2: we think, ah, I mean, if God came to give
• 38:14
  S2: us the abundant life, how dare I be depressed? Well,
• 38:17
  S2: all you got to do is read the Psalms and
• 38:19
  S2: you realize great men and women of old have gone
• 38:23
  S2: through seasons of real discouragement. But I think it's important
• 38:27
  S2: for us to distinguish between depression that is commonly categorized
• 38:32
  S2: in the world today and how they treat it, versus
• 38:36
  S2: the spiritual war and the reality of what this guest has.
• 38:40
  S2: Spiritual depression, that's his topic, and we want to get
• 38:44
  S2: after it. Nate Pickowicz with us right now. Nate, I
• 38:47
  S2: am so grateful that you've tackled this topic. Spiritual depression
• 38:51
  S2: delineate for us the difference between what is diagnosed as
• 38:56
  S2: everyday depression, garden variety depression versus spiritual depression.
• 39:01
  S11: It's a challenging question because I think there's a lot
• 39:03
  S11: of confusion, a lot of different opinions about it. I
• 39:07
  S11: generally try to stay clear of the so-called medical or
• 39:10
  S11: clinical stuff, and I usually tell people, if someone has
• 39:14
  S11: a condition where there's something wrong with their brain, with
• 39:16
  S11: their body, with their physiology. Then go talk to a
• 39:19
  S11: trusted doctor. But what I'm talking about specifically is issues
• 39:23
  S11: of the mind and of the heart. Anytime the Bible
• 39:26
  S11: deals with things like anxiety, fear, depression, worry, it deals
• 39:29
  S11: with them on spiritual terms. And so, so much of
• 39:33
  S11: this in the life of the believer is trying to
• 39:35
  S11: get our heart and our mind and our faith and
• 39:37
  S11: our walk right with God and do the things that
• 39:40
  S11: he is commanding us to do. Again, this is not
• 39:42
  S11: under the guise of having something wrong with you physically
• 39:45
  S11: or in your brain, but something in your life and
• 39:48
  S11: your mind and your heart. So that's really what I
• 39:50
  S11: want to get at, is, is how to battle those
• 39:52
  S11: on those terms and how to give victory for the
• 39:55
  S11: believer who's struggling in this area.
• 39:56
  S2: You know, I think we've done a pretty good job
• 40:00
  S2: as of late, highlighting the reality that depression, uh, can happen.
• 40:06
  S2: In fact, I'm going to be this bold. I don't
• 40:08
  S2: know that anyone who's a follower of Jesus can avoid
• 40:12
  S2: seasons or bouts with spiritual depression. What do you say?
• 40:18
  S11: Yeah, I think that's probably accurate. I know a few
• 40:21
  S11: people who tell me they haven't, but most Christians that
• 40:24
  S11: I know have gone through either seasons or bouts or
• 40:27
  S11: just personal struggles in this area. Sometimes it might be
• 40:30
  S11: a lack of assurance of faith. It could be overcoming
• 40:33
  S11: or overcome with worry, fear, anxiety, or just aloneness of spirit.
• 40:37
  S11: A lot of people struggle, and even a lot of
• 40:39
  S11: people in church history and even in the Bible have
• 40:42
  S11: struggled with this very thing. So it's a very real
• 40:44
  S11: experience for most believers.
• 40:46
  S2: Yeah, you mentioned it and it's so true. We talk
• 40:49
  S2: a lot about this here with Carl and crew in
• 40:52
  S2: the mornings, and we tackle it from a perspective of
• 40:55
  S2: the mind is the battlefield. And we know that we're
• 40:58
  S2: to take thoughts captive and we're to be renewed, becoming
• 41:02
  S2: worshipers of God by renewing our minds. So the mind
• 41:06
  S2: is a battlefield. I think we underestimate Nate. How significant
• 41:11
  S2: this is. What do you say?
• 41:13
  S11: Yeah. There's an old adage that your mind affects your emotions,
• 41:17
  S11: which affects your will. So what you think about what
• 41:20
  S11: you focus your mind on, the immaterial part of who
• 41:24
  S11: you are, your whatever your mind is focused on is
• 41:27
  S11: going to inform how you feel and how you feel
• 41:29
  S11: will dictate what you do. So there's a connection between
• 41:33
  S11: your thinking and your believing and your feeling and your actions.
• 41:36
  S11: And so if we don't learn to discipline and control
• 41:39
  S11: our mind and have a presence of mind to follow
• 41:42
  S11: the Lord and obey him and do the things he's
• 41:44
  S11: calling us to do, even in the way that we
• 41:46
  S11: respond to trials. If we don't learn how to do that,
• 41:49
  S11: we are going to struggle. And so, so much of this,
• 41:51
  S11: as you said, is a battle of the mind. And
• 41:53
  S11: that's what I try to help people tackle.
• 41:55
  S2: The only offensive spiritual weapon of war that we find
• 41:59
  S2: in the Ephesians six passage on these, uh, implements of
• 42:05
  S2: armor and battle is the Word of God. And it's,
• 42:10
  S2: by the way, the rhema Word of God, the spoken
• 42:12
  S2: word of God getting it off your lips. It's almost
• 42:15
  S2: like a spiritual self talk kind of a thing. How
• 42:19
  S2: much do you drill down on in your new book,
• 42:21
  S2: Overcoming the Darkness Biblical Help for Spiritual Depression? How much
• 42:25
  S2: do you think? Wait it out versus just having good
• 42:29
  S2: conversations and being in fellowship and giving your lives away,
• 42:32
  S2: which you prescribe are some of the most important elements here.
• 42:35
  S2: How central is the Word of God to getting victory
• 42:39
  S2: over spiritual depression?
• 42:41
  S11: Yeah, it's absolutely key. And you know, when you look
• 42:44
  S11: at what I've written, so much of my book is
• 42:47
  S11: just trying to understand and apply scripture. Scripture is there.
• 42:51
  S11: I also have scripture guides. You know, sometimes when you're
• 42:54
  S11: in about a depression like that, when you're struggling, sometimes
• 42:58
  S11: you can't, you know, listen to a whole long talk
• 43:01
  S11: or a sermon or even a whole book, but you
• 43:03
  S11: can grab a verse, you can grab a part of
• 43:05
  S11: a verse sometimes. And it's the truth of God's word
• 43:08
  S11: that informs and changes us. You know, we live in
• 43:11
  S11: a world that's just embedded with lies. And even we
• 43:14
  S11: lie to ourselves. We believe things that aren't true about
• 43:17
  S11: who we are, who God is, and what our situation is.
• 43:20
  S11: And so to reinforce truth, and there is no greater,
• 43:23
  S11: truer truth than the Word of God. And so we
• 43:26
  S11: need that to learn it, to read it, to know it,
• 43:29
  S11: memorize it, to ponder it. It's so important to recovery. Absolutely.
• 43:34
  S2: You know, I used to think depression was something that
• 43:39
  S2: was characteristic of, of certain personalities until I hit about
• 43:44
  S2: when I got into a bout of spiritual depression. It
• 43:48
  S2: created in me more way more empathy. Nate. It created
• 43:52
  S2: way more empathy in my heart. And that's maybe one
• 43:55
  S2: of the best takeaways for me. But when you're in
• 43:58
  S2: spiritual depression, it's a fog that is unusual and you
• 44:03
  S2: don't even know your way out. Have you experienced this yourself, Nate?
• 44:09
  S2: And what was the first thing that you hung on
• 44:12
  S2: to that made some some path clarity before you.
• 44:16
  S11: Yeah. I've struggled with various kinds of spiritual depression since
• 44:20
  S11: I was a child. I remember just being a really
• 44:22
  S11: anxious kid and struggling in those areas. And when I
• 44:25
  S11: became an adult, it just began to overtake me until
• 44:28
  S11: I became a Christian. And then once I became a Christian,
• 44:31
  S11: I started reading my Bible and realizing that that wasn't
• 44:33
  S11: God's desire for me, that he didn't want me to
• 44:36
  S11: be anxious or worried or fearful. So for me, I
• 44:39
  S11: just held on to the promises of God. I would
• 44:41
  S11: go to places like Matthew six where Jesus says, do
• 44:44
  S11: not be anxious for your life. Things like that. When
• 44:47
  S11: he says, come to me, all you who are weary
• 44:49
  S11: and heavy laden, and I will give you rest. I
• 44:51
  S11: began to go to God's Word and minister the truth
• 44:54
  S11: of God's Word to my own heart. And you know
• 44:57
  S11: the the challenges to believe, to focus in, on and
• 45:00
  S11: believe on what God is saying to you and not
• 45:03
  S11: listening to what your self is saying to you. That's
• 45:05
  S11: what David does in Psalm 42. You know, he's asking himself,
• 45:09
  S11: why are you so downcast? And then he gives himself
• 45:11
  S11: the answer. Hope in God. I'll again praise him so.
• 45:15
  S11: So important to know the Word of God. And as
• 45:18
  S11: you said, to experience that. And when you have experienced that,
• 45:21
  S11: to be able to help other people and have empathy
• 45:23
  S11: and a heart for other people, it's so important.
• 45:26
  S2: I gotta believe there are tens of thousands right now
• 45:29
  S2: listening that are hanging on this word. It's hopeful just
• 45:32
  S2: to have it identified that, wow, you can get into
• 45:36
  S2: spiritual depression, but there is biblical help for it as well.
• 45:39
  S2: Nate Pickett's my guest right now. He's a pastor, unusual
• 45:43
  S2: pastor in that he got his chops in financial services.
• 45:47
  S2: God called him out of this. I love those kind
• 45:49
  S2: of stories. When we get back, we're going to get
• 45:52
  S2: into some specifics. This will prime the pump for some
• 45:55
  S2: of you to go grab this resource, this book. But
• 45:59
  S2: yet we want to give you hope today. Hang on.
• 46:01
  S2: More with Nate straight ahead.
• 46:04
  S1: Standing on the rock. Each and every day you're listening
• 46:08
  S1: to Carl and Crew.
• 46:10
  S2: Nate Pickowicz. My guest right now, he's the pastor of
• 46:13
  S2: Harvest Bible Church in New Hampshire. And Nate, I'm thrilled
• 46:17
  S2: that you're tackling this topic and I'm thrilled that you're
• 46:20
  S2: not you're not putting a big bucket. It's like biblical
• 46:23
  S2: help for depression. You've quantified it as spiritual depression. Explain
• 46:29
  S2: why you put in that word spiritual. And then we're
• 46:31
  S2: going to get to some anecdotes here.
• 46:34
  S11: Yeah. I think the reason it's important to talk about
• 46:36
  S11: it as being a spiritual thing is because we're not
• 46:38
  S11: talking about something that's physically wrong with a person. There's
• 46:41
  S11: nothing wrong with their brain. You know, sometimes our physical
• 46:44
  S11: can affect our emotions in a way, and you need
• 46:47
  S11: some kind of help outside of that. And like I
• 46:50
  S11: tell people, go to a doctor if you think there's
• 46:52
  S11: something wrong with you physically. However, when you're talking about
• 46:55
  S11: the issues of the mind and of the heart, your faith,
• 46:58
  S11: your feelings, you know what's going on inside of you
• 47:01
  S11: on a spiritual level. Uh, that's something, you know, a
• 47:04
  S11: person can't deal with you on those terms, on medical terms,
• 47:07
  S11: you need the Lord. You need the Word of God
• 47:09
  S11: to minister to you. So that's what I'm hoping to do,
• 47:11
  S11: is just take the Bibles remedies for these problems and
• 47:14
  S11: try to apply it in the life of the believer,
• 47:17
  S11: so that all of us as believers can can access
• 47:19
  S11: the Word of God and have those helps for spiritual depression.
• 47:23
  S11: So something that's near and dear to my own heart,
• 47:25
  S11: and hopefully it's going to be helpful to a lot
• 47:26
  S11: of people.
• 47:27
  S2: Yeah, I believe it will. You know, you outlined causes
• 47:30
  S2: for spiritual depression as exhaustion, laziness, selfishness, fear, spiritual rebellion.
• 47:37
  S2: But you also mentioned spiritual forgetfulness. What do you mean
• 47:42
  S2: by that?
• 47:43
  S11: That's an interesting one, because I think there are times,
• 47:45
  S11: especially as believers, when we know certain truths, you know,
• 47:49
  S11: we understand the gospel of our salvation. We understand that
• 47:52
  S11: Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins,
• 47:56
  S11: that the penalty for our sins is gone. And yet,
• 47:59
  S11: when we get into these bouts where we're struggling with
• 48:01
  S11: depression or anxiety or fear or worry, and sometimes we forget,
• 48:06
  S11: we forget that God has already done the work. We
• 48:08
  S11: forget that we belong to Christ and we're, as the
• 48:11
  S11: Bible said, seated with him in the heavenly places, we
• 48:14
  S11: have reason for hope. We tend to forget those things,
• 48:16
  S11: and we have to remind ourselves, wait a second here.
• 48:19
  S11: I actually belong to the Lord and he loves me.
• 48:22
  S11: He has a plan for my life, for my future.
• 48:25
  S11: He wants something for me to be his child and
• 48:29
  S11: to grow. So I think to remember his promises. Remember
• 48:32
  S11: the work he's done. It's vitally important to pulling out
• 48:35
  S11: of this.
• 48:36
  S2: Okay, let's get really pragmatic because the one significant bout
• 48:40
  S2: of spiritual depression that I had and I did it
• 48:43
  S2: was it came on the heels of a deep, deep
• 48:46
  S2: wound of betrayal, and I felt like the world was
• 48:49
  S2: against me and I didn't I couldn't even hear I,
• 48:53
  S2: I heard the words, God is for you, but it
• 48:57
  S2: almost didn't cut through the fog of that opposition and depression. Pragmatically,
• 49:04
  S2: how do we take the truth of God's Word and
• 49:09
  S2: penetrate the darkness and the fog in a distorted thinking
• 49:14
  S2: to set us free.
• 49:16
  S11: Yeah. I think the first thing that anyone has to
• 49:18
  S11: do is go directly to the Lord. You know, even though,
• 49:21
  S11: you know, we're called to examine ourselves and to look
• 49:24
  S11: and ask questions and really try to drill down, why
• 49:27
  S11: do I feel the way that I feel? Again, that's
• 49:29
  S11: David in Psalm 42. Ultimately, we're going to find our
• 49:33
  S11: source of hope and joy and healing in Christ. The
• 49:37
  S11: first thing you have to do is go to him
• 49:39
  S11: in prayer. If you know that you're struggling, maybe it's
• 49:42
  S11: a sin issue that you have to confess, or maybe
• 49:45
  S11: you've been sinned against, and you have to ask the
• 49:47
  S11: Lord to help you to to forgive them, or even
• 49:50
  S11: to just put your hope and your trust in him
• 49:53
  S11: and trust in his work of restoration, to trust in
• 49:56
  S11: his judgments. But I think going to God, recognizing that
• 49:59
  S11: you can't do it on your own, you need his help.
• 50:02
  S11: He's able to do things in you spiritually that you
• 50:04
  S11: just can't do for yourself. So I think on the
• 50:07
  S11: most practical level, get some time alone with God, open
• 50:10
  S11: God's Word. I think the Psalms are a great place
• 50:13
  S11: to be because the Psalms sort of resonate with our
• 50:16
  S11: hearts emotions. But I think getting alone with God and
• 50:19
  S11: just pouring out your heart to him, tell him what's
• 50:21
  S11: going on. And then even in light of that, talking
• 50:24
  S11: to a trusted friend, you know, a spiritual leader, a
• 50:27
  S11: pastor or a counselor and just talking these things through
• 50:30
  S11: getting it out of yourself. Otherwise, you'll start to believe
• 50:33
  S11: lies that just aren't true.
• 50:34
  S3: Yeah.
• 50:35
  S2: I believe that there is something about opening your chest cavity,
• 50:39
  S2: pouring out your soul to someone. Articulating what you're feeling
• 50:43
  S2: can be one of the big breakthroughs. It's interesting to
• 50:46
  S2: me because as you think about spiritual depression, and I
• 50:49
  S2: can testify to this because when you're in spiritual depression,
• 50:53
  S2: sometimes the last thing you're thinking about is being obedient
• 50:56
  S2: to the word of God because you're thinking, for crying
• 50:59
  S2: out loud, I'm depressed. I need a pass on some
• 51:02
  S2: of these things. may be not forsaking the fellowshipping together
• 51:08
  S2: with other saints. All right. It can be a battle,
• 51:12
  S2: but you've seen real hope in staying obedient, even though
• 51:17
  S2: you're going through the fog of spiritual depression. Speak to that.
• 51:20
  S11: Yeah. I think one of the things that depression will
• 51:23
  S11: do to you is it isolates you. It stops you
• 51:26
  S11: from forward progress. It just, you know, ultimately this drives
• 51:30
  S11: you to the very bottom of the pit, as I
• 51:32
  S11: like to describe it, where you just can't see your
• 51:34
  S11: way out. But I think part of pulling out of that,
• 51:37
  S11: and that's part of why I wanted to write the book,
• 51:39
  S11: the way that I did is to try to give
• 51:41
  S11: people a couple of steps just to take a little
• 51:44
  S11: push forward, and sometimes even just the basic disciplines of
• 51:48
  S11: like what you're talking about, even just showing up and
• 51:50
  S11: being at church with God's people, or just the discipline
• 51:53
  S11: of opening your Bible and just reading something, or even
• 51:57
  S11: the discipline of just stopping and praying and talking to God,
• 52:01
  S11: sometimes the most simple things. It's not going to set
• 52:03
  S11: the world on fire, but at least it's forward progress.
• 52:06
  S11: And sometimes it just takes that little step of discipline
• 52:09
  S11: and obedience to break the dam and everything starts coming out.
• 52:13
  S11: So don't underestimate the value of just the small things.
• 52:17
  S11: Even just getting up and making your bed, taking a shower.
• 52:20
  S11: Small things can make a big deal, a big difference
• 52:23
  S11: when you're struggling with spiritual depression. So don't underestimate discipline
• 52:27
  S11: and obedience.
• 52:28
  S3: Amen.
• 52:28
  S2: Nate Pinkowitz is our guest and he's got a work
• 52:32
  S2: out from Moody Publishers. It's dynamite. I want you to
• 52:36
  S2: there's thousands of you right now that are saying, man,
• 52:40
  S2: this is so practical, this is so pragmatic. Text. The
• 52:44
  S2: word overcome right now, overcome. The name of the book
• 52:49
  S2: is Overcoming the Darkness. Biblical help for Spiritual depression. Text
• 52:54
  S2: overcome to 805 557898 805 557898.