Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / The Anatomy of a Conversion-Focused Landing Page with Katie Zana from Pearler

Transcript

The Anatomy of a Conversion-Focused Landing Page with Katie Zana from Pearler · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  Let's take this show on the road. Imagine a world where gender equality is the norm and women have equal access to the same financial opportunities regardless of our personal circumstances. Hi, I'm Dune, founder of Female Startup Club and your personal hype girl. This is the pod for you. If you're starting a side hustle,
• 0:20
  scaling your biz or looking for inspo. We cover venture capital, personal finance, selling your biz and keeping your mental health in check from entrepreneurs like Refinery29's co-founder Piera Gelati and Ju Ru, who sold Hero Cosmetics for $650 million. Slide into my DMs if there's a question you want answered and let's get into today's episode.
• 1:02
  Katie, welcome back to the Female Startup Club podcast. Today, we are covering more Shopify stuff with our, I guess I'm going to be calling you our resident Shopify expert, Katie from Perla, to dive into the anatomy of a conversion focused landing page, which sounds so not sexy to me, but it possibly is very sexy to you. And I'm very excited about it.
• 1:28
  And for everyone tuning in, we're going to be exploring the key elements that make a landing page effective. We're also going to jot in some actionable tips. If you're a business owner and you've got a Shopify website, this is for you. It's also for me since we are, you know, migrating my website over to Shopify, which is very exciting and we'll get into that too. And I think it's kind of, well, I actually just want to mention before we jump into it that I think...
• 1:56
  We've talked through kind of like general homepage sort of stuff. We've talked through general Shopify branding and aesthetics. And so some of this might be repeated, but this is all from the lens of a landing page, which has your products on it. And that is the page that people are going to be buying through. And so we're kind of like focusing on essentially like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I feel like the landing page or the sales page is like,
• 2:24
  probably one of, if not the most important pages on a website, because this is the page that you are driving your traffic to, whether it's cold audience traffic from, you know, paid social, TikTok ads, meta ads, whatever, or whether it's warm kind of traffic coming from your existing organic Instagram or whatever it might be. But
• 2:48
  This is kind of like your golden ticket to sales. This is the money maker. This is the money, honey. So I'm excited to talk about this and I feel like you're going to have so much to say about it and I'm very excited.
• 3:06
  But first, how are you? What's going on? I'm doing great. I'm really excited to talk about this. I think that we're going to make it sexy or at the very, very least just actionable and like really clear about what on earth to do because it sounds like a, I don't know, it sounds unpleasant conversions. But once you break it down, it's actually okay. And yeah.
• 3:33
  I'm excited. Yeah, we want to have a landing page that is converting. We want a landing page that is optimized for sales. And we also want it to look cute. So I'm excited to jump in. I want to start first by like getting an update on Female Startup Club's website. We didn't talk about this offline before we hit record. So everyone is hearing this as well at the same time that I am hearing it.
• 4:01
  What's been going on? How's it going? How's it looking? I mean, I've got like a couple of visuals, but like, what's the vibe? I did send you a big old update because I just decided to get in there last night and have some fun. But really, the homepage is coming along really nicely. And we're starting to get all the things in there. Just, I don't know, logo carousels and figuring out how to do the hero layouts and
• 4:29
  You know, I've added in a couple of little effects so that we can really go hard with the gradients because we love a gradient. Oh, we do love a gradient. We're not over it. We're just reinventing it for 2024. So I've had a lot of fun. And I think once this part is done, then it will sort of be lining up with what we're talking about today, which is like we'll be working on your product page next. Yeah.
• 4:54
  and really laying that out. And so this primer is like kind of getting me in the zone anyways. Love it. I mean, it's so lol and maybe other people listening will feel like this, but I'm like...
• 5:08
  yeah, okay, cool. I know that the landing page, the product page, the sales page, whatever you want to call it is the most important thing. But having said that the homepage is where I'm like, yeah, but what's happening on the homepage? Cause like, I just love the homepage. And yeah, I kind of like, personally I'm going against what I know to be true. But anyway, I don't care. I'm still really excited about the homepage. I mean, I'm excited about our product pages too, but like,
• 5:36
  Homepage is my jam. I think we're in like a real sales page era though. And it's, the homepage is essentially just becoming like a summary of like everything that you do. I guess it's always been that way. But the sales page has become this really OTT kind of zone for a lot of different products, especially if you bought a course at all in the last, you know, couple of years. You can see that some of those pages are...
• 6:03
  20 sections long. If I'm talking in web design talk, it's just like sections usually. And it's just this endless scroll. And so you can maybe look at stuff like that and be like, wow, do I really need all that? And I also will probably interrupt at some point to do a bit of
• 6:28
  sales pages and product pages, there are a couple little differences there. And there's also some differences with depending what category you're sort of selling in as well.
• 6:38
  okay, well, why don't we start with those differences? Because that might kind of shape then the direction of like where we go. I wanted to start with just the overall key elements of what we need on a landing page. But I think if we could actually rewind to what you're saying, because you and I might have a little bit of a difference in landing page versus product page versus sales page, and you're the expert. So
• 7:04
  Please tell me more. What do we need to know here? To be fair, I also had to like look around the internet and be like, okay, what's going on here? Because we both sort of seen this, who's that guy, Nick Sharma, he's like pretty big in the biz and he's got some conversion rate optimized landing page guide that we're both looking at.
• 7:29
  To me, that is really focused towards maybe if you're a single product business or you really wanted to target all your ads that were going directly to a product.
• 7:42
  page where people can buy the product that's like very optimized. And it doesn't look like a traditional sort of product page layout because you'll find that it's almost like, it looks like a homepage, but not like there's no navigation, but there's still a big hero banner. And there's like, buy this, you know, here's a little bit more information and a call to action. And all of those buttons will lead to an area where you can actually add it to cart and
• 8:09
  And I suppose I would probably just call that a sales page. And that sort of used to be a little bit more reserved for maybe a digital product or like a more information service sort of business. But now it's extended into physical products.
• 8:39
  mattress brands that have these very, very, you can just tell they're a very optimized landing page. And so that's sort of what springs to mind when I think about products who are doing that style of thing. Right. So that's for cold traffic, your paid ads, and like, that's just like the 100% it's optimized to get the sale from cold traffic versus, um,
• 9:04
  A product page is more of just your typical product page that your warm audience would go to. Is that what you mean? Yeah, I think that's actually kind of putting it really well.
• 9:15
  I mean, landing pages, which I don't know where I even got the term landing pages, product pages versus sales pages. For the purpose of today and for the purpose kind of speaking to someone who's in the earlier stages of doing their DIY Shopify or kind of like solopreneur trying to manage things themselves and probably don't have a million different kind of sales pages and people who are doing different things in different directions, I'm going to be a little bit more.
• 9:44
  What should we kind of focus on if we're thinking about product page or sales page? What direction should we take here?
• 9:53
  Well, I would say when you are in that position of you don't have a million resources or a million dollars or whatever it looks like for you, then look around at brands who you feel as though are doing well, because just know that they have invested so much money into putting together those product pages and sales pages. Yeah.
• 10:16
  to, yeah, be optimized to like industry standards. So when you are looking there, try and really pretend you are the customer and figure out, okay, what is easy to use about this page? Like really try and pretend you're the customer and have that separation there and just see if you pick up on things that are interesting to you. Some things will be, you know, maybe more aesthetic. Some things will be like, oh, wow, that was just...
• 10:44
  really clever or I haven't seen that before. Or like it's clunky and it's annoying. And if you're observing your behavior and you're like, damn, this freaking drives me insane. Exactly. And so this is why I do say a lot.
• 11:01
  try not to steer too far from just the typical UX that we're used to, particularly on like a classic product page, you know, like your typical, if you have a Shopify store, that user experience that we're used to seeing. And I know I brought it up in the last podcast, but so many people are very vitriolic about the Zara website. Honestly, I still can't believe it.
• 11:27
  I hate it so much. So if we compare something like that to maybe Tower 28 is a beauty brand that I was looking at this afternoon, and I really like their product page in terms of something that is classic, but easy to use. Ooh, I'm going to bring it up. Let's actually just like talk through this. Let me just... I reckon we should. I have notes. Oh, okay. Amazing. Okay, great. I'm on the website. Do you have a specific one that I should go into? Okay.
• 11:52
  Well, I'm on the Get Set Pressed Powder and it's pretty much when you go into bestsellers, it's the first product there. Okay, got it. I'm there. This is probably a product that they've really, really considered the product page most because especially if you have a deep line of products, so maybe that's more than, you know, maybe more than five products.
• 12:16
  you're probably going to have bestsellers and those pages are the ones you really should consider focusing on first. Yes. Okay. I love this. I have it open. And I also think like, just as a quick little side note, your bestsellers are also where you should be driving your traffic to and like really just doubling down on that, you know, one specific product and then allowing people to organically like browse the other things on your website and add those to
• 12:46
  okay I'm noticing some things here that I love and that I want to bring up but I'm gonna let you go first and tell me kind of like let's like and if anyone is listening to this you should open it up too because I feel like we should have planned to do this from the start this is awesome tell me what you see what is the anatomy of this landing page why is it good what is it that you're like this is something to take note of or like what are the elements here
• 13:13
  Straight up product image, really simple, really clear ghost image. And I think that's relevant for a lot of different industries. It's very Google shopping friendly. So...
• 13:26
  that's, you know, there's nothing crazy there. The next one is a video of just it being used, followed by a model image, which is maybe like your campaign image or something that's just a little bit more aspirational or cute. And then we've got two transformation images of two quite different skin tones just to cover bases there. So it's really solid. You can see the thumbnails.
• 13:56
  taking up a good amount of the page, it's nice and clear, like no notes. It's so funny because when I was taking notes before this episode, like I was kind of pulling together the things that, you know, I think need to go on like a landing page. If I was just to think about myself as a customer, I always like to put myself in any scenario as just like the customer of the user and like what I observe based on my own behavior versus like trying to get the answer from something like Google.
• 14:26
  And literally I had like, cool, you want like the clear image, but we also need the video that shows it in action. We also need the before and after if that's relevant. And I think what they did really well with the video here is...
• 14:42
  It mimics social media. This is obviously from social media. It's got the social media outlined text in the video and that makes it feel more like native. Like if you've come from an ad on Instagram and then you've landed on this page,
• 14:57
  I don't know, I feel like this screams, yep, modern kind of brand. You've definitely highlighted something that I wanted to bring up on this episode, which is bonus points for bringing social media UX onto your product page. It's something that's a bit more 2024 that we're seeing pop up.
• 15:18
  There are apps like there's one called Tolstoy, which I believe the ordinary use. So you can go to just go to their best selling products and you'll see that on their product page that will typically say something like see it in use. And all that really is, is either, you know, one or a few Reels TikTok style videos that are embedded into the page or.
• 15:43
  As soon as we see that rectangular shape that looks a bit like a video with some text on top, we're clicking it because it's so familiar. And let's be real, a video is what we want people to click on because it's instantly going to summarize all the text that we have on this page.
• 16:00
  or at least a really cool feature that we want to hone in on. And people are lazy. We can lay things out so beautifully and people will just gravitate straight to the videos. So this is just covering all bases in terms of if you like to read and look at little cute icons and texts, well, that option is there. If you like to scroll through images, that option is there. If you want to look at the TikToks, that option is there. Yeah, I love it. I think it's so clever that also it feels like...
• 16:30
  I feel like we're like moving out of the age where, yes, it's important to have the campaign shot and like, great, amazing, fine, we can see that. But also we do want to see just like the everyday relatable video of how it actually looks in action that's not polished.
• 16:47
  And certainly I used to work in fashion and that change happened actually quite a lot of years ago when they were pouring so much money into campaign shoots and suddenly they were getting this content roll through from their actual customers. It was crazy.
• 17:06
  kind of crappy taken on their iPhone and they were posting that and the engagement was so much higher because of the realness and people are expecting that on a product page now it doesn't have to be oh our social media is where all the realness happens and the product page has to be polished because we want to look like all the big guys no mm-hmm
• 17:26
  it's not as necessary. So lean into that when you're a small business and you can't afford to have these really, you know, editorial shoots or yeah, all that kind of really expensive stuff. All the expensive stuff. Tell me what you see next. That is the vibe.
• 17:48
  So it is interesting that in the spot where maybe we would once have like a little bestseller tag or something like that, the lingo is now, this is a TikTok viral thing. So that I just couldn't help but find that really interesting. And I sort of want to bring it up. 100%. 100%. That's immediately what stood out to me. That and like the banner across the top where it says, shop the TikTok viral powder.
• 18:13
  Exactly. It obviously works for them. And so there's some, you know, old faithfuls that we're used to seeing, which is the little reviews summary, the stars and the amount of reviews in brackets. And obviously you might also notice that there's a little reviews widget on the far left side of the screen sitting there. Oh yeah. Oh, I never click those. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, that's kind of cool. Yeah.
• 18:39
  Right. You know, it's just an option that most reviews apps come with these days. Really important is the, we have the shades, the swatch picker. And so I will refer it back to Shopify just because most people have a Shopify store. But if your products are set up as variants, then this little swatchy thing will automatically appear. But if you have...
• 19:05
  All your products, like say you have a product that has four different colors and they are set up as separate products, that you will need an app to make it so that they're all linked. So just bear that in mind, but it's really worth investing in and getting it set up properly. You know what I don't like about this? So it's got the shade, it's got the four shades, and then there's a button that says, find my shade. Yeah.
• 19:29
  And when I click that button, I would have thought it would be a pop-up kind of thing. Like, you know, when you press like a size guide kind of thing and it just like doesn't take you to another page. Whereas like when I click find my shade, it takes me to a whole new page and not even in a new tab. It just like fully diverts me to a page that is the quiz. And I love a quiz, but like that's not the behavior that I was like, that's not the action that I would have wanted almost. I would have wanted like...
• 19:56
  something to not take me away from that page and then get distracted in the quiz, if that makes sense. A hundred percent. This is not conversion rate optimized. This is sending people on like a goose chase. And especially if you are ADD like me, I'm not coming back. Yeah, like I've lost my, like I'm like literally, okay, well now I'm on a whole different path and now I'm thinking about quizzes.
• 20:20
  That's right. Side quest. The side quest. I'm gone. I'm gone. I would have loved that if it was Find My Shade as a pop-up and like figuring it out kind of like in action there. Yeah. So...
• 20:33
  In that spot is typically whether that's a size chart, your, yeah, Find My Shade or the sunglasses brand, maybe it's like a virtual try-on thing. And, yeah, typically they are something that appears in a light box as opposed to taking people to a new page. So I also just wanted to flag that above it is a short description that,
• 20:56
  Heavy on the short, but we have to keep it really concise and let's not go crazy there. This is where copywriting matters. Try not to sound robotic. This is, you know, the perfect spot to be a bit clever, but still descriptive. Mm-hmm.
• 21:12
  And how important is like SEO when we're thinking about these kinds of little bits? Like, should we be trying to get keywords in there? Because this doesn't scream to have a lot of keywords, but then maybe sensitive skin could be, or like maybe sensitive skin setting powder is a keyword or like a key, you know, a longer tail keyword, as they would say. I love the lingo. Like...
• 21:36
  Technically, yes, but also there is a spot in your product admin area. So when you're creating the product in your website's admin, at the very bottom of that area will typically be an area where you can pop your SEO title, SEO description. That's where that stuff matters more so. Of course, keywords matter to a certain extent on the page, but if you want to be really considering keywords,
• 22:05
  making it less branded and more keyword rich, then really just consider that in that area in your admin. Okay, cool.
• 22:16
  So one of the things, and maybe you're about to bring this up, but I just want to like circle back to the video where you were talking about, you know, this inaction video and it's the social media feel. What like stands out to me in that video immediately is like the thing on her finger. It's like, oh, there's this cute little complimentary thing
• 22:39
  thing that's being used. And then when you look under the like add to cart button, it's actually not that it's like very obvious that it's free, but it has like free powder puff duo to go with this powder, which I love. That's like, you know, a little gift with purchase. It's cute, but you also immediately see it and want it on the video. The video makes you be like, what is that? I want it. Yeah.
• 23:06
  It's funny because I hadn't actually clicked that video and I was just staring without really knowing what I was staring at, that little free powder puff duo. And I did not realize what it was until I watched the video. And then I was like, oh, adorable. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's harder to see it. It looks like it's, it could be like earplugs or something, but it's curious sparking because I see it and I'm like, Ooh, what is that? But then I
• 23:33
  in the video, when you get to the video, you're like, oh my God, I love that. I need that. That's so fun. I'm like, these are all things that are making me be like, I want to buy it. Like, I actually want that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that stuff is really clever. And there are certain things that I feel like almost being like,
• 23:56
  There is a bit of a hierarchy in terms of probably like what's the most important. Like I imagine that that free Powderpuff duo is probably like you would need an app to create that little feature maybe. Yeah.
• 24:12
  depending on your themes, like sort of capabilities. And yeah, there is a lot sort of happening here. But I do think some of the most important stuff is just like getting your product images and videos sorted, making sure that all of your color options are easily, like they can get,
• 24:34
  from A to B really simply and reviews. Right. So it's kind of like if you're a beginner or you're in the early stages and you don't have the ability to maybe put in all the add-ons and all the, you know, these extra bells and whistles, what you do have at your fingertips is like,
• 24:52
  the product imagery, social media style videos, 100% before and afters if you have a product that requires that kind of like transformation moment. And then it's kind of like you can add these little social proof moments if it's gone viral, like TikTok viral or whatever, instead of a bestseller kind of badge and reviews, which we will scroll down and get to the review section as well.
• 25:21
  Yeah, just utilizing that carousel in a clever way and really concise
• 25:27
  text, oh, it will serve you so well. On this particular product page, like they've got little emojis with the six sort of top features. They're all just a maximum of three words. It's really concise. And you can put emojis anywhere in your text editor. So there's no reason you can't just do that within your product description sort of text.
• 25:56
  Yeah, I love it. And I think that this, again, goes back to speaking to, you know, Tower 28 obviously knows who their customer is. They know who their girl is and their girl is on social media. And when she comes to this page, she's getting this similar kind of experience of social media-esque. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah.
• 26:19
  Yeah, it's mil Zed. Yeah, it's leaning more gen Zed. But yeah, I think it's done really well. And so just to skim through a few other bits is their add to cart button is a contrast color like and it pops.
• 26:38
  There's a little afterpay ditty there just so we know that like that's an option. Really clear like free shipping for $30 and over, free returns. So it's just all summarized and visible. You don't have to open up accordions to see that. You know what I would just say based on what you just said?
• 26:56
  What this page is doing really well is it's answering all the questions and like beating all the hurdles or objections you might have before you even get to them. So it's like, cool. Okay. But like, how much is shipping going to cost if I want to buy this? Or like, is it possible to return this if I don't like this, which could be a hurdle or something that stops you from buying something. Whereas it's like, nope, we have everything really easily for you to see and clock before you even get to that thinking.
• 27:27
  stage. Like we've already like smoothed it out. Yep. No side quest to the FAQs page or anything like that. It's just, let's just try and be really concise, but we're still going to have all the information there. And this is why it goes so far to just summarize all your content and have it all.
• 27:49
  laid out in this kind of way. So little accordion drop downs is what we're looking at. You know what I would also say here? Like they've obviously got an FAQ section where you can drop down and get more like information and they've also got that on the like tell me more and the ingredients and how to use and blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:07
  But like going back to this notion of like answering the question before someone even thinks of the question, if you're doing something yourself, like DIY or a business owner, you could just be thinking, okay, what is every single question that someone has asked me in the comments or in the DMs or like my friends? Like what are those things that people have asked?
• 28:29
  and make sure that it is explained somewhere on your website. It doesn't have to be like, or not website, rather, product page. It doesn't have to be fancy or something like extra, you know, functionality built in. It's like, if all you can do is write it somewhere, like write it somewhere and answer that question so someone doesn't have to ask you for the answer. Exactly. And you'll know, look, I mean, beauty particularly is...
• 28:56
  these customers are clued up and they have a lot of questions. And so I would say this is a pretty text-heavy page because typically maybe on a, you know, a fashion label site, the next sections after their main sort of product area would be more user-generated content of outfits and people styling it and all that kind of thing. Whereas, you know, this is just more FAQs because, yeah,
• 29:25
  There's just so many questions that people have about how the product works and compatibility with skin types and whatnot. So it's all going to depend on your industry, but no one knows it better than you do. So really just think about like all those questions that you always get asked. Exactly what you said. Yep. I love that. I love that.
• 29:45
  Also kind of interesting, their add to bag or like add to cart button stays like no matter what on the screen, which is cool. Love that. It is a sticky cart. And if your theme doesn't have that automatically, you can either find an app or it's actually a fairly simple thing. I shouldn't say that. It depends on the theme, but it's probably a worthy thing to get, especially because
• 30:11
  Our product pages are getting so long that as we scroll, scroll, scroll, suddenly we're really far away from that add to add button. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. It's a sticky what? Sticky cart. It's a sticky cart. Cute. I love that. A little sticky cart. Let's talk about reviews. I love reviews and I love reviews that have a picture of.
• 30:34
  which this obviously has so many of, they're all recent, there's so many five stars. I want to talk about A, just whatever you have to say on the topic of reviews, but then B, like how are they getting these reviews?
• 30:49
  Mm, so it's worthwhile investing in a good reviews app. So I would say that the typical free Shopify reviews app, it's very limited. There are also some very expensive reviews apps out there, and I don't actually necessarily recommend going for those. There's some good competitors out there. So just do your research on that. Don't go straight in the deep end with the really expensive common one.
• 31:19
  So all of these features that you can see on this particular example that we're looking at are really common now, which is...
• 31:27
  customer buys product, then they are automatically sent a branded email from you at a time period after their purchase that you've sort of decided on. So whether that's, you know, a week later or a month later, they will get an automated email asking for a review. And maybe there's a little discount code or something to sweeten the deal that says, you
• 31:52
  Look, it's really helpful for people if you add a photo and whether that's just you may get featured on our Instagram or we'll thank you with a 10% off your next...
• 32:04
  purchase code. It's incentivized, right? It's incentivized, exactly. So this is like very common now and it works. 100%. I mean, the social proof of having hundreds of reviews and essentially hundreds of five-star reviews for this specific product is...
• 32:25
  I mean, that's just so powerful. So it's really worth investing the time in setting it up. And don't be too thrown by the fact that it's like, well, okay, what about when we only have, you know,
• 32:41
  five reviews in the first week, what's the deal? You can either make it so that your reviews app isn't showing on your site until you've gathered enough reviews behind the scenes, or a lot of them will have a feature so that it just won't show if there's no reviews, but as soon as there are reviews, it will show up. So that is a pretty common feature of them as well.
• 33:06
  Got it. All the other stuff, you know, like recommended products and, you know, then you can go down and like get the, you know, bit more from the founder, all this kind of stuff. Great. But what do you think, if anything, is there anything missing on a product page like this? I mean, I know we've already kind of mentioned the find my shade button was a little bit of a crappy journey to go to another page. But is there anything else that you're like, okay, it's actually missing this that I would add if it was me? Yeah.
• 33:34
  I think that a common thing that we're expecting to see on product pages as well is maybe not as, I think because this reviews app has built in user generated content, that's great. For a fashion label or for a home decor product where you want to see it,
• 33:56
  in use in people's homes or how they've styled it, all that kind of thing, then you may want to have an app that is just for uploading galleries of your products in other people, like depending on where you've, you know, gathered those images from, whether it's being tagged on Instagram and you go and get permission off them. There are even apps that will sort of do that automatically for you if you're dealing with high volume content
• 34:25
  they will cost you. So again, with UGC apps is what they're called. So if you typed in UGC app for Shopify, then you would have a lot appear. And again, they're quite varied in their features and prices, but what you're essentially looking for is just shoppable galleries for your product page.
• 34:50
  And they go a long way because, yeah, people just want the realness. Yeah, I love that. I love a gallery like that. I feel like we covered so many good things for this page. I'm kind of thinking like out loud here that we should do this for some different categories. Like we've just done beauty, obviously. We should do like another one that's like fashion. We should do another one that's like fashion.
• 35:16
  whatever it is, and kind of like follow the same format. And then if anyone's like willing to put their sales page or product page like up for review, we should, you know, put the call out here. If anyone wants us to do that, we can also kind of make suggestions on other people's product and landing pages to see how you might be able to improve it and kind of DIY add to it. That would be fun.
• 35:43
  You know how like throughout this conversation you've kind of told us a bunch of things, whether it's like the sticky cart or the UGC gallery, blah, blah, blah. Is there a way like when we're looking at this website, like you know how you can easily like inspect or view the source to find out like, oh, okay, they're using Shopify. Is there a way that someone can...
• 36:08
  within a couple of clicks, figure out the different apps and plug-ins that a brand is using? Yes. I believe there's one called Koala Inspector and I think maybe Wopalizer as well. Okay. Because I wonder if, like, that's also something that, like, if you're kind of DIYing or, like, kind of doing things online
• 36:35
  on a budget and you're looking at a website like this, which is obviously, you know, this business is many years into the journey. There's like, it's comparing to someone who's much further along. However, if you could kind of have a little look around at the kinds of plugins that they're using. So even if you have a checklist that you can work towards in the future of like, cool, I can't do everything right now, but I'm going to work towards having that added in or I'm going to work towards...
• 37:05
  improving my reviews from just written reviews that I've added in to, you know, a full on plugin that is capturing the pictures and all these kind of like things, bells and whistles that this one has.
• 37:19
  I think it's a really good tip. And I would definitely just Google search like Chrome extensions and then Shopify app detector or something to that effect. And it's a really handy thing to just be on any person's website and then click that thing and see what apps they're using. It certainly happens a lot when people will...
• 37:42
  send me someone's website and say, oh, I really like that quiz function that they have. And so I'll just go in there and use a function like that. I can personally look into the code, but sometimes I will use those apps to identify it. And then I'll go and search for that app and then be like, oh, that's a bit steep. I'll see if there's something else that's similar that is maybe a bit cheaper and still has all those functions that they're obviously trying to compete with that big well-known app.
• 38:10
  And then I'll go for that one. And the beauty of it is that most of the time you can install it, give it a, just have a play around configuring it. And if it's hard to use or whatever, you can just delete it because most of them have like a free trial.
• 38:25
  And so, yeah, that is a little bit of trial and error in terms of those, but it's a really, it's really worth seeing what other people are using. And that's a great tool. Yes. Amazing. Thank you. I want to kind of like wrap up with one more question just around like.
• 38:44
  Let's say you're an e-com founder and I've sorted traffic. I know how to drive traffic to my website now. I can do that. And now I need to figure out how to increase my conversion to be able to increase those sales. Or, you know, obviously you might have a traffic problem too and you're not able to drive the traffic and your conversion rate is low, whatever. But in this scenario, let's say traffic isn't an issue. Your ads are performing. They're driving people to the website.
• 39:14
  And I don't know exactly how to frame this or what the terminology here is, but like data can be really overwhelming. And like if you don't know, then you don't know what you don't know. And so it's like what should someone be kind of like –
• 39:30
  looking at to gauge the success of that landing page and like what are the steps to figuring out how they can improve it because it's like let's say you know today we've gone through kind of like the general anatomy of a page and we've kind of reviewed this page that we've seen which is obviously optimized and doing a really good job but like
• 39:52
  Someone could go through and be like, yeah, okay, I've added a bunch of that stuff and my conversion rate in my like dashboard isn't improving. So like what should they be doing from there to improve it?
• 40:05
  I think sometimes it's really easy to look over. We can be a bit close to our websites and there are definitely things that we can do in terms of looking at the data, but I would also recommend giving your website to either...
• 40:22
  customers or people who you know that are of the right demographic, like don't be giving it to your mom if she's not your target. Like give it to people that are likely your kind of people and say, can you just have a go at this and just give me any feedback on it? Because it might surprise you what they say or what they found hard. And you can see from actual people trying to do it, like
• 40:50
  their experience is. So at least that will iron out some more UX stuff as opposed to like, oh, I just didn't like it. Therefore I didn't add it to car. Oh my God. You've given me also another really good idea of what you could do. So outside of giving it to people like your friends and friends of friends who also just might not really be an expert at all, but like they're coming at it from the consumer behavior lens. Something that I get really into and I'm
• 41:20
  I'm literally obsessed, is Reddit. Reddit is like a goldmine. I would be going onto Reddit. I'd be looking at whatever the relevant sub-Reddits are. So, for example, there's like the obvious ones like entrepreneur or startup. And then there's ones that are like maybe...
• 41:40
  like ride along for the entrepreneurs or something like that. But finding ones where you could post your website and be like, hey, I'm looking for feedback. These for context, this is what I sell. This is my demographic. This is what I've already improved, added, plug-ins, etc. Right.
• 41:58
  But can someone, it's like the kind of the equivalent of like roast my, you know, roast my business idea. It's like, can someone go through and give me like a little bit more advice from a professional lens? And the community on Reddit really gets involved. And if, I mean, sometimes it won't take off or whatever if you do a post, but like,
• 42:19
  Sometimes they really do. And then when you get into the comments of those kind of things where people are giving feedback, it's just so valuable. And I'm like, that's where I would be posting it. I'd even post it on LinkedIn, to be honest, and be like, all right, who can help me here? You know what? I love that you came up with that because I wouldn't have even thought of it. But I just like that that is a thing that you can do. Oh, man. Like, yeah, I'm in a lot of like SaaS channels on Reddit and I'll like read through the
• 42:48
  I don't know. Anyway, whatever. I'm getting off topic. There we go. I feel like this podcast started in one direction. We totally pivoted to doing a landing page. And now I'm kind of obsessed with this. So I want to do it again. I want to find like a new category. I want to find a new category.
• 43:03
  and a new landing page for us to do in the next episode, don't tell me what it is so that we can, again, go from like you, the expert, with kind of your lens on it and then me as kind of like the non-expert looking at it and being like, ooh, what about this, what about this? And then if anyone listening actually wants to,
• 43:24
  to review their landing pages or your landing pages, drop into, I guess, drop into our DMs or email me or like, you know, whatever, get in touch. And then we can, we can do that too.
• 43:39
  That sounds fun to me. I'm nice. You are nice. We can do constructive feedback. I'm encouraging. Okay, I'm so excited about this. I loved this episode. Katie, as always, such a pleasure. Thanks for joining us. My pleasure. See you next time. Bye-bye.
• 44:03
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 44:28
  And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.
• 44:50
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.