Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Soft And Strong. How Not To Be A Pushover In Divorce

Transcript

Soft And Strong. How Not To Be A Pushover In Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: These are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganising life afterwards.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warren Tree people of the Coolland Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, the podcast where, as you know, we have open, honest conversations about separation, divorce, and really importantly, how to protect yourself, your peace, your power when everything else is crumbling, feels like it's crumbling around you, right?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or it's turning upside down around you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And today I really want to explore something that comes up really regularly in my one-to-one working coaching sessions, and that is how not to be a pushover, how not to be a pushover in divorce, how not to be a pushover in mediation, how not to be a pushover in negotiation.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stand your ground without turning mediation into I was gonna say a shit show into a shit show or a battlefield?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do you show up kindly, compassionately, because you are a kind and compassionate person, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that without feeling like you have to say yes to everything?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Without feeling like you're getting pushed around.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I call this being soft and strong at the same time.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of the most important skills you can practice or you can bring into your mediation, into co-parenting conversations, into your broader life, really, and into any moment, interaction, conversation, particularly where there's something big, something important at stake.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive in, and to do that, I want to first start by naming something, naming a myth or a belief that so many of us have internalized, and that is this idea that you're one or the other.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're either cooperative agreeable or you're assertive unyielding.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: You are cooperative and agreeable, so you end up overgiving, under-asking, leaving your own needs on the table, um, self-sacrificing or self-sabotaging, staying quiet, or you are assertive and unyielding, so you're labelled as difficult, or you feel like you have to armour up and go in and fight for what you want, your rights, your needs, your hopes, your dreams, whatever it is.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not that binary.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually have to pick one or the other because there is this beautiful middle ground, this middle space, and I like to think of it as gentle strength or quiet power.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, gentle strength is where there's clarity in your voice, in what you're asking for, even when you're scared or it's hard.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's about calm in your nervous system, even when you're activated, you're anxious, you're stressed, and the stakes are really high.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's about refusing to minimize, shut yourself down, make yourself small or shrink, but also refusing to attack or be defensive or aggressive.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's powerful because it means that you stay present, you stay connected, and particularly you stay connected to yourself and your values and your goals.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: You stay connected and mindful of, connected to and mindful of the outcome that you want.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And taking it one step further, let's be real, it's not easy to do this.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So many of us have been conditioned through family of origin, even within the relationship that you are disentangling yourself from to either avoid conflict at all costs or to meet it head-on.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we can talk about fight, flight, freeze, fawn in in and around that, you know.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you come out fighting or do you fawn?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, many of us have that internal conditioning, that internal narrative.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you grew up in a household where it wasn't safe to disagree, it wasn't safe to voice your thoughts, opinions, so you learned to keep the peace by agreeing, acquiescing, staying quiet.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you were taught the flip side of that that you needed to stand up and be loud and advocate fiercely, or you'd be walked all over, right?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And in the stress and vulnerability and anxiety of separation, plus that added pressure to get everything right for yourself, for your kids, it's it's unsurprising that we feel like we have to pick a lane, that we have to pick one or the other.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it is really normal to feel pulled to one end of that extreme or the other, right?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what matters most here is noticing it and making a conscious choice to bring yourself back to mindfulness, to presence, and to come back to that center, that middle ground.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what soft and strong looks like on a practical level.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to talk about it with respect to mediation, but it's applicable across all conversations and all interactions, whether it's an initial conversation about separation or it's a conversation in a more litigious, high conflict separation, divorce.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's get practical.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So being soft and strong, tapping into that quiet power means you show up anchored in three things.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, your non-negotiables.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: These are the core principles or outcomes you are not able or willing to compromise on.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: For example, your children's safety, well-being, emotionally, physically, financially.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that you're gonna compromise on, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's your own safety and stability, and stability in all the ways, emotional, psychological, financial.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna compromise, or another non-negotiable is a settlement that meets at least, at the very least, your baseline needs.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And for that to be true, or that to be an outcome, you need to know what those baseline needs are.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that's another podcast episode.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So these aren't just pretty preferences, these are your must-haves.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are your non-negotiables?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for you, there'll be more, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be more that are specific to you, your children, your family, your unique set of circumstances.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So anchor into what are my non-negotiables?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: What am I not willing to compromise on?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing that you want to anchor into to be able to show up to mediation on negotiation in that soft and strong space is your flexibility.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is where you stay open and curious as to how you get there, how you get to an agreement, how you get to honour your non-negotiables, but also, okay.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you have really strong feelings about one arrangement, one part of the agreement, but you are willing to hear other ideas if they still honour your non-negotiables, if they still allow you to meet and honour those non-negotiables.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me give you some examples.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're really firm about maintaining meaningful time with your children, but you're flexible and open about which days, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're clear about needing a financial settlement that is sufficient, that allows you, sufficient to allow you to cover your living costs, but you're open to creative financial structures and how that might look across time, okay.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, number one, anchored in non-negotiables, number two, anchored in flexibility, and I'm gonna add in there open and curious, okay, because there's no one right way to meet your needs.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So flexible, open, curious, solutions focused, right?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the third thing to anchor into when you're thinking about showing up in that strong and soft or soft and strong manner is you, your tone, your energy.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really where softness, softness, hard to say, softness shines, where it shows up.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's how you express yourself calmly, respectfully, without shame, blame, guilt, without being overly emotional.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in that calm, respectful tone.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's about taking a breath or a moment or a pause before you respond.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's about actively listening, really listening to what's coming from the other side, not just waiting for your next opportunity to speak.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about really pausing, absorbing all of that, pausing to reflect rather than instantly reacting.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I often talk to clients about imagine yourself, I know it sounds a bit crackies, but go with me here.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine yourself like a tree, okay?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Soft and strong.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Your roots are firm in the earth, your roots are firm and anchored in your values, your needs, your non-negotiables.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But your branches above are flexible, willing to bend, will you know absorb the wind, the rain, the storm, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can move, so you're anchored but flexible.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're strong in your base, but you're also soft.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm talking about when I talk about soft and strong.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought what would be really helpful here is if I share a few lived experience examples of how this has played out for some of my clients, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you might find that you recognize yourself, your ex, your current partner potentially in some of these stories.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: If what I'm sharing about in this episode or any episode is speaking to you and you would like to explore working more closely with me, there is an opportunity to book a free intro call with me in the show notes.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to support you through your own reflect, reclaim, and liberate coaching experience.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the other parent, the ex-partner who is pushing for more parenting time.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: You might feel pressured to agree because you don't want to drag the process out for anybody, least of all your kids.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: You might feel pressured to agree because you don't want to be seen as difficult or blocking time.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Soft and strong in this instance might sound something like, I hear how important this is to you.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say, name what this is.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hear how important it is to you to have meaningful time with our children.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I also need to prioritize stability and structure for the kids, and this current arrangement meets their needs really well.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: If there are ways that we can adjust that without losing consistency, without losing stability and structure, I'm really open to discussing them.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: What are you suggesting?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the strong parties anchored in, needs of the children, that's a non-negotiable for you.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: What is in their best interests?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: The flexibility comes in around, as I said earlier, maybe which days it is or times or whatever.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, scenario number two often comes up, and it's probably coming up for you if it hasn't already, it's the money conversation.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: It can at times feel easier to just say, fine, agree, 50-50 split, I'm done here.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or flip side is to really push hard and go hard line and fight, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the fawn response, I just want this done, I'm just gonna agree to get it done, and then the fiery fight response of no, I'm gonna really fight hard here.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Soft and strong would sound something like I'm not comfortable agreeing to that today.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like some time to consider other options that feel fair and sustainable and allow us both to move forward.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you're strong in I'm not I'm not just gonna lie down and agree here, and you're soft in giving yourself time, space, and breathing room, but also um open to consideration and thinking about different ways to move forward.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Another scenario, and this is a an experience that some of my coaching clients have had when, particularly when we haven't been in control of choosing a mediator.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Some mediators, you know, you've got a certain amount of time booked, half-day mediation, full-day mediation, and you get close to time, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the mediator feels the pressure, you feel the pressure, everybody's feeling the pressure and watching that clock tick down.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about a mediator who maybe you feel is pushing you to come to agreement, seeming to push for not necessarily a quick resolution, but a resolution within the time frame.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can be soft and strong here, and you can hold your ground respectfully.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can go back to the mediator and say, I really appreciate the goal of coming to agreement today, reaching an agreement relatively quickly.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also need to feel confident that I'm making decisions that serve everyone's long-term well-being.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'd really like to slow down here.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I need to take some more time.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the strong is I get it, I know we need to agree.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not stalling just because I'm stalling or asking for time because I need to be confident that this decision is in my long-term and the children's best interests.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons I'm so passionate about this concept of soft and strong of quiet power is that these are skills that you will take with you.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: These are still skills that don't necessarily just stay in the mediation space.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: They will ripple out to every part of your life and your ongoing relationship with the other person, with your ex if you have children, okay, into your co-parenting conversations, into other tricky conversations, into how you advocate for yourself at work or with extended family, how you set boundaries with friends, family, your ex-partner and co-parent, and really importantly, how you model healthy conflict resolution for your kids.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Every time you practice this soft and strong, this quiet power, you're rewriting, rewiring old patterns, and you are showing up for yourself in a different way and proving to yourself that you can be really clear and act and behave in a values-aligned way without either being aggressive or combative or disappearing.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can be kind and compassionate without losing yourself, without self-sabotaging, without self-sacrificing, without disappearing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, I feel like I say this a lot, it comes back to your core values.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing your core values.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So before we wrap this conversation, or before we wrap this episode, I would invite you to go back, review, revisit what are my values and what are my values, particularly as I'm showing up in this space, in this space that is you're in conflict, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or you wouldn't be getting divorced.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up in that space?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Am I willing to show up with quiet power and in soft but strong ways?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is really important to me?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are those drop-dead non-negotiables?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are my values?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do I want to show up for myself?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not just in mediation, not just in negotiation, not just through separation and divorce, but in my life as a whole, in this next chapter of my life.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: How am I going to show up for myself?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what do I want to model for my children?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not just about healthy conflict resolution, but about self-respect, about self-advocacy, about compassion, and about courage.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you are really clear on your values and on where you want to be, not just at the end of the mediation or the negotiation or the property settlement, but in you know two, five, ten years' time, when you're clear on those things, your decisions are clearer.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to say easier, um, but they are clearer and they can feel simpler, even if they're still hard.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you can then check in and ask yourself, okay, does this choice or which decision here best honours what matters most to me, and which decision takes me closer to the life that I most want to be living next week, next year, next decade.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And when you act in alignment and you behave in alignment with your values, you are far less likely to look back with regret.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Note, I say far less likely.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: There might still be moments that trip you up, conversations where you're not able to be soft and strong that you might have done differently in different circumstances, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there might be regret, but for the most part, you will know that you handled this season, these conversations, this part of your life with as much integrity and grace as you could.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, that's enough, right?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Near enough, good enough.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're listening and thinking, this all sounds great, Sally Ann, this all sounds awesome in theory, but how do I actually do it?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Here are three really simple and small ways that you can start to practice quiet power, speaking with quiet power, anchoring into your quiet power and tapping into soft and strong.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is pause before responding.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Take one breath, count to ten or whatever it is.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Ask yourself, what do I really need here?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: What is most important here?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is going to take me one step closer towards that life, one step closer to that life that I most want to be living?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So pause, the power of the pause.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is when you're communicating, try and use I statements.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's easy to fall into that shame, blame, finger pointing, accusatory language when you are activated and in a conflict, in high conflict, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of you're being unfair or that's really unfair, try I'm feeling a little uncomfortable about this proposal, or I'm not really comfortable with what you're suggesting.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So flip the language, use I statements.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna add in there, sometimes it's really powerful, and I do this with my one-to-one clients.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's really powerful to use the we language, right?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because they're not my kids or your kids, they're our kids.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not your money or my money, it's our money.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you can tap into that in another way and say, How can we move this forward?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: For example, what is best for us?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it invites.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a more collaborative approach in the way you use language.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So use I statements, but also try we and us language.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the third thing is really get clear on values, non-negotiables, flexibles.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, write them down.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Get them out of your head and onto paper because seeing them on paper really helps you clarify them.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And also if you take them with you into negotiation, intermediation, it can help you hold your boundaries and also stay open at the same time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So values, even you know, three three to five words about future life and outcome, non-negotiables, flexibles.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Have them written down.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Seeing them on paper is powerful.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Soft and strong isn't about it's never going to be about being perfect, okay?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be about anchored and you know, go back to the tree, anchored in the earth, anchored in your values, but flexible about how your wants, needs, desires are met.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't about winners and losers, it's not about black and white solutions, it's about the nuance and the shades of grey, and it's about being open and curious and solutions focused, right?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Focused on outcomes and solutions, not hard and fast.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: And here's what I love when each of you is anchored in their values, willing to stay curious, new pathways, new options, new ways forward actually appear, and they can be ones that you might never have seen without that shared commitment.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: When you both hold this balance of firmness and flexibility, soft and strong, quiet but powerful, something shifts and possibilities tend to appear or emerge that were hidden, hidden behind fear or defensiveness or combat or conflict.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and even if it's only you who shows up soft and strong, open and curious, something shifts.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's power in only one of you showing up that way.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because this soft and strong way of being is about showing up with integrity, with compassion, and that future focus, even when it's hard, even if it's not being met or mirrored from the other side.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's also about remembering you're allowed to take up space gently, quietly.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's about allowing space for the other person and the other side, even if they're being tricky.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So soft and strong is absolutely a strategy, but it's more and it's deeper than that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It can actually shift the fundamentals, the fundamentals of you, of your negotiation, of your mediation, and impact so many other areas of your life, so many interactions, so many conversations.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is an act of kindness, but that act of kindness is not just to others, it's kindness to yourself.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you would like to explore this on a deeper level, if you'd like more tools for preparing for mediation, check the show notes for resources and ways that you can work with me.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've taken something from this episode.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening, and until next time, be gentle with yourself and trust that you can be both soft and strong and not be a pushover in mediation, in negotiation, in co-parenting conversations, in life.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: If you know somebody who would benefit from listening to this, please share it with them.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can, rate review the podcast.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: It means we bump it up in the algorithms and we get it into the ears of a whole lot more people, just like you, who need to hear it.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again for being here.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Until then,