Latest / 8 Years To Live / Part 1: The Diagnosis That Changed Everything | Summer's Breast Cancer Story
Transcript
- speaker-0: Every person has a story. Some shape us, some break us, and some help us heal. Join Sisters Kim and Bibi as they explore mental health, trauma, relationships, and personal growth through honest conversations, lived experiences, and professional insights. Because understanding your story can change the way you live it. This is Eight Years to Live. speaker-1: I have gone into a coma. speaker-2: Say Maria Shriver. speaker-1: Yes, yes. Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? speaker-2: Good question. Because medical trauma is one of the most under recognized forms of trauma. speaker-1: Talk to you when I die. speaker-2: Tell you you've got eight years to left. speaker-1: WW I am in Las Vegas. I am at home with my dog Savvy, who has not made an appearance in a really long time. And I am recording a podcast. So www. What am I doing? Where am I at? Who am I with? Recording a podcast at my house. And I'm not by myself because I just heard Ruben walk in. My husband. We do have someone that could be a samurai because she is a legend, a hero, a fighter. All the things. Today's guest is somebody that I have personally known for at least ten years. we met at Design Builders. I don't know if they're still in business. Summer, I'm sure you'll be able to catch us up on that. But the way I describe Summer is that she could run Any CEO or she could be the CEO of any company at any point in time and run circles around everybody because she is so on top of everything at all times. It's been amazing to watch her, as she says, summarize different companies. when I first started working there at Design Builders. She it was a hot mess, like super disorganized. I'm disorganized. Everybody else was disorganized. And so when summer she had taken a brief period from working there, she came back and she's like, I'm gonna summarize this place. And my goodness, she did. She's super organized. she is now a really good friend of mine, and she does my bookkeeping on two of my businesses. So with that. I just wanna welcome you, Summer. Thank you so much for saying yes to this. I really appreciate you. speaker-0: Thank you guys for asking me to be on it and be a part of it. And I'm kind of excited. I've never done anything like this before. So woohoo! speaker-1: That is exciting. Yeah, I know Summer just through you, Kim. Mm-hmm. But the little that I know, your name is so fitting. Summer, I feel like you are a ray of sunshine. The way j even just through social media, I'm like, she's always just so I don't know, just you seem so happy, cheerful. You always brighten my day. speaker-0: I appreciate it. I try. I try. It's a work in progress. speaker-1: Yeah, it's awesome. there were a couple of reasons why I thought, gosh, Summer would be a really good person to interview. One of them, and you kind of brought it up when we were texting about it, is that October is breast cancer month, breast cancer awareness month. And you went through all of that a while ago. I think you said seven years ago. That was one portion of your story. So I think that might just be part one. And hopefully you say yes, because I would love to have you back. For part two to talk about your childhood, you have a huge story, really, really big story, and how you've overcome so many things and just where you are now. It's really impressive. speaker-0: I appreciate that 'cause I I agree. But yeah, no, I I'm all for I've already told you that I would I could probably do an entire podcast with you guys just about me and my life. I got stories for days upon days. So I'm definitely interested in in doing more after this one. And I do think this one was fitting for breast cancer awareness month and talking about the medical trauma with that or my experience with it, because I think it's kind of interesting how my experience was with it 'cause I don't feel traumatized by speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: it. so I'm excited to kind of talk that out and see if other people may have felt like I do or don't feel like I do, or maybe just give that inspiration or hope and awareness to people 'cause this month is always the month that I always try to even before I had my issue, I was always trying to support breast cancer awareness and and Getting yourself checked and doing what you should do for your health like that. So I'm excited for it to be for an October podcast. speaker-1: Yes, perfect timing. So on that, what what do you recommend? So before you had cancer, what were you doing to stay aware, preventative? How were you raising awareness? speaker-0: Honestly, not a lot, and that sounds maybe weird to say. So for years my aunt and I had always done the breast cancer walk in Vegas. Every October it was something that we did every year. We had no connection to anybody that's ever had breast cancer. I've never personally known anybody that's had breast cancer. It was just something that we always did and wanted to support and show our support for women in that community. And then before that I just and during that I just kind of post things, same things about, you know, getting yourself checked. I personally didn't know the importance of getting medically checked. Like, yeah, you do your own home exams, like you're always taught when you first get but I wasn't aware that you should be getting medical exams done. I mean, when you go to the girly doctor, they do their exam, but they don't even really recommend getting mammograms until the age of forty. Which now that I've been through this process, I definitely feel that that should be a thousand percent changed. Cause after going through my process and meeting young women in the breast cancer community was overwhelming to know how many women under the age of forty, under the age of thirty-five, even that were that have breast cancer, that survive breast cancer, that have died from breast cancer well before they're ever medically supposed to even be checked for that kind of stuff. So now that I've gone through that process, I just try to promote even more getting your screens done. Early detection obviously saves lives. listen to your body. You find something abnormal, get into a doctor. Don't be scared because the longer you wait, the harder it is to to to get better or to cure it or to gosh forbid, not survive it. Cause there's those chances where you may wait too long and now you can't and you don't have any options anymore. So just always trying to make sure people do their their bodily checks. I've never really personally did full blown checks on myself. How I found my cancer was literally kind of like by accident by chance. So and that's what brought me to be more aware of listening to my body and things that go on with it. speaker-1: Can you tell us about that? How by chance that happened? speaker-0: So I I remember I very good at detail. I remember everything like it was yesterday. I remember that week. It was a I used to be really big working out. I had just got done losing like almost 70 pounds all natural, busted my bum, working out like a beast six days a week, crazy meal prepping. so I lost a lot of weight. So obviously when you lose weight, different things with your body start to come out or you feel things or you see things that you've never seen or felt before because they were Covered up by fluff. and I remember that week, it was a a new challenge week at my gym, and I used to be an ambassador. And I remember Wednesday when I went home and I showered and I was just lathering up, nothing abnormal, and I felt like this weird bump on my right breast, like under my armpit, but on the breast. Didn't really pay any attention to it because I was just showering really quick, whatever, no big deal. And Thursday, same thing, I was showering and I felt that bump again. I'm like, That's a little weird. So I tried to pick at it, like maybe it was like a sweat pimple because I was in a sports bra for hours after working out. and it wasn't like picking or anything. And then when I pressed on it, it was like the size of a cherry tomato and rock hard. And when I felt that, I was like, that's that's not normal at all. I remember calling my my friend at the time, Diana, and I was like, I need to come to your house. You need to fill me up because something is wrong. And she's like, Summer, it's 10 o'clock at night, like, go to bed. And I'm like, No, no, no, something's wrong. So the next day at work, at Design Builders, actually, I went to work and one of our other coworkers that ran the plumbing company, Brandy, I had her fill my breast for me because I wanted someone else, I didn't want to think I'm going crazy, you know, which is not hard to do. And she felt it and she was like, That doesn't feel normal. Call your doctor. So I called my girly doctor because I didn't really know who else to call. they wanted me to come in that same day. And I was like, no, I'll wait till Monday. I one, I like to give my work notice because I don't just like be I gotta up and leave. So I just chose to wait till Monday for the appointment. I really believe in everything happens for a reason and things kind of fall into place. Well that same weekend so that was a Friday that Sunday I was supposed to do the breast cancer walk with my aunt and I couldn't do it because my feet were like I my planners fasci acting up and I literally couldn't walk. So I couldn't do the breast cancer walk. Well that Sunday, same thing showering, just lathering up, not doing any kind of like breast exam. And I found a second spot on the top part of my breast right here that was about an inch Long filling and flat and hard. It felt completely different than the other one. So now I'm like really freaking out like what is going on. I go to the doctor that Monday and of course she can't say anything because I have to have tests done first. you know, she feels them and she's like, well, this one could be cyst and this one could be dense tissue, and I can see the look on her face and I'm like, No. Something's not right. What you're telling me is not accurate, but I understand. We have to wait for testing. and then I immediately was put into starting getting testing done. And I went for a mammogram first, ultrasound the same day, and then the rest of the fun process started. And we'll get into more of that fun process, but that's how I found it myself was just showering, taking a shower, and it just didn't feel right. And then two days later there was another spot that didn't feel right, and luckily my doctors were on top of it. For sure, 'cause they wanted me to come in that same day and you know, and and all my tests were just back to back to back of getting things figured out as well. speaker-1: What was your thought process like as you're looking at the doctor's face and the doctor saying, you know, this could be this, this could be that, you know, we still have to send in for tests. Like and you you're already knowing like something's not right here. You're not telling me the truth. Did you like go into thoughts like bad thoughts? Like tell me, what was that like? speaker-0: My first thought was that I had cancer. Like I didn't know what else could be wrong with your breasts with something like that. I didn't know what else it could be. So my first thought was that I have cancer, I'm gonna die. Hands down. Cause that's what you think about when you think about cancer or hear about cancer, like your first cause stereotypically people die from cancer. And I've never known anyone that's really lived Like not that I've known anyone personally, but you never hear about really anybody speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: like that. So I when she was just the look on her face, I could tell that she thought that something else was seriously wrong too. But again, you can't she can't say that. and I will say one of the hardest parts through everything was is the waiting game. Waiting for test results, waiting to get back into the doctor, waiting to know exactly what is going on when you don't know what's going on. I think that was one of the scariest parts for me was the waiting game. And I didn't wait a long time during stuff because they had all of my paper because stat and my doctors were on it, on it, on it. Well after I fired the first one. But they were on it, on it, on it. And I appreciate that because I was I was diagnosed with breast cancer six weeks after my 36th birthday. That's speaker-1: my gosh. speaker-0: young. Yes you know Like I had four more years before I'm even supposed to medically get a mammogram done. You know, so that's was scary too, is being thirty-six and not knowing what's going on with my body at that moment. But my first thought was that I had cancer and I was gonna die. speaker-1: Ugh. speaker-0: It scared me. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I remember talking to you about it outside in the parking lot and you're like, you know, I'm just so scared. And I was like, I don't even have words. I and I think I remember saying, Look, I don't know what to tell you. All I know is that we just need to pray right now. And I we prayed and 'cause I couldn't even imagine. I mean, who did you go to? I know that you part of your story is that you were raised by your aunt and un kinda aunt and uncle. Did you go to them or who did you go to? speaker-0: so besides my my my best friend at the time, because she was the first person I called, but definitely the first person I called was I call him dad uncle. He's actually my uncle, but I call him dad because he's who I was pretty much raised with. And he was the but between my two best friends, Diana and Alyssa, he was the third person that was involved immediately with what was going on. And he was at almost all of my doctor's appointments with me in the beginning. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: So my mom was support. Yeah, it was the support part is a little I don't know not all there, but it was there in the beginning. So I appreciate that part. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. And you were saying something about your mom? speaker-0: My would have probably gone to my mom first, but my mom was already dead for I think a year before I was diagnosed. Otherwise she probably would have been absolutely the first person that I would have sh I wish she was the first person I could have called, to be honest, because I wasn't able to. but she probably would have been the very first person I would have called. So speaker-1: Yeah, so so scary. Like you said, I think it's that waiting game. You know that something's not right, you can read it on the doctor's face, and it's like, okay, they're not telling me everything, and that can't be good. Right. Where my mind would go. Right. And you know, like there's a feeling you get, or you can sense it whether you feel it in your body, you can tell. speaker-0: Yep. speaker-1: You can tell like, there's more information. They're not they can't tell me yet, but there's gonna be big news coming. You just know it. speaker-0: And I and that's how I felt is I knew something bigger and wasn't gonna be good that was gonna come from that first doctor's appointment. So speaker-1: Mm-hmm. So scary. Mm-hmm. What did you do to kind of calm your nerves? Or did you do anything or did your nerves just kind of run away with you? speaker-0: Really, I mean, I don't know if I can say I'm gonna say on the pot. I'm a pothead. So I I smoke weed. So that's obviously one of the things that I pretty much immediately did was smoke weed to calm down. but everything happens so fast, it's almost like your brain can't quite catch up with what's going on because everything's happening so fast and you have to make decisions like Now. It wasn't like, you know, take a week or two to think about if you want to do something. It's like, no, you kinda have to make a decision while sitting in this doctor's office right this second without even doing like your research and stuff yet. Cause I'm a I'm a researcher. I look everything up. I want to know A, B, C, D, all the way to Z of what's this option twenty f all of the options I you know, I so I wanted to be able to take time and I didn't really have time. So It was just kind of like everything was a whirlwind and just happened so fast I don't even think I had the capacity to recognize how I was feeling or how my nervous system was. There was a lot of crying that went on. I'm not really a crier. I don't like to cry. but there was definitely a lot of crying that was going on, especially again during the the waiting time of starting to get the tests done and waiting for results to come back. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I can totally understand that. Like not knowing what you feel or think in the moment because it's happening before your eyes. Yep. You don't like you said, you don't get a break to say, Okay, let's think about it, let's talk about it, let's process it. Now, seven years later it's like, my gosh, I don't think I'm traumatized, but am I? I've we've talked about that with my medical history, which you know a little bit about. I'm forty two. speaker-0: I got really speaker-1: That's awesome. Yeah, I got sick at eleven. So that's something that I think is such a real thing, not even realizing like there's I'm traumatized? No, I'm not. Like I'm I'm healthy. I'm good. Everything's fixed. But like you said, there's it happens so fast. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And now it's like, whoa, that happened thirty years ago or however long ago. What is my body even feeling about it now? Let alone however long ago it happened. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And you said, just a second ago that you fired the first doctor. Can you tell us why you fired the first doctor? speaker-0: So it's how kind of the I'll I'll back up for how the testing kind of works. So after I went to the girl doctor, they she sends me to to get the mammogram and ultrasound done. I go and get the mammogram done. They do the ultrasound the same day. Random because they kept focusing on so I found the two lumps on the right breast. They kept focusing imaging on my left breast. Which I thought was weird because they were also focusing it. I don't know if you can see me, but kind of like right here in this area. And that's where I used to stick my cell phone all the time. So I start freaking out, like people always said you don't put your cell phone in your bra, it'll cause breast cancer. So I'm like, what the like, did I just do this to myself? And but that's not true. It doesn't cause the breast cancer, like any but anyway. because they also found so when I got those done. They found a third lump in my right breast that I couldn't feel. And then they also found a lump in my left breast that later on got found out that that wasn't cancerous. so after I get those results, go back to the girly doctor, she says, Yes, you have and excuse me, I don't know all the names because I kind of just forgot them, but cars inductive car I should have looked this stuff up before the podcast, but inductive carsa, whatever. But it means that in my milk duct. I had breast cancer. And she said that she already made me appointment for a breast specialist for the next morning. I have no idea what a breast special it is. I figure a cancer doctor is a cancer doctor. So I go to this doctor's office the next morning with my dad, uncle, and I think it was Alyssa that was with me at that appointment. And I remember sitting in her office. Well, I it was eight thirty in morning. I'm bawling, crying because I'm about to, I just got told not even 12 hours ago that I have breast cancer, and now I have no idea what any of this means. And I remember sitting in that doctor's office, and when she walked in, it wasn't like, hey, hi, I'm Dr. So-and-so. It's nice to meet you. I'm Summer, blah, blah, blah. It was, you have to start chemo in two weeks and you're having a double mastectomy. And I'm One, what the F like chemo kills people, right? And what the hell is a double masseptomy? I had these are words that I like never I knew about what they were, because again, kind of being involved in doing the walks and stuff, but never knew what they were, if that makes sense. speaker-1: No. speaker-0: and when she said that I was like, what the f are you talking about? Like, no no no no no no. Cancer her chemo kills people for one, you that happens all the time and What do you mean? And then she's like, Well, we're gonna have to take your boobs. And I'm like, What do you mean you're taking my boobs? What does that mean? so that was the first impression. I personally didn't like that. The the bedside manner was just not speaker-1: No. speaker-0: there. and I'm thinking, I'm a thirty-six year old young lady that was just told that she has breast cancer, and you there was like no sympathy. If that makes sense. Like not that I'm expecting sympathy from people or a doctor, but like I think when you're working in that field have speaker-1: You need to speaker-0: a certain type of compassion, sympathy, personality. and I remember meeting with her and know, my dad was ready to send me off, like to California, to Utah, wherever the best cancer facilities were, he like gonna ship me off and pay whatever to get things taken care of. And I remember him asking her about a certain type of treatment that one of his friends was going through in California. And I remember her saying, Well, I've never heard of that, and that's not what's gonna work for your daughter. And she said it in a rude way, and my dad's vein popped out in his forehead right here, and I was like, we're probably about to walk out of this doctor's office without me even saying anything. So we made it that appointment. The next day her office staff was supposed to be ordering the biopsies because they wanted to do obviously biopsies next to figure out exactly what type of cancer it is and all of that stuff. I spent three days on the phone with her office staff numerous times because they couldn't get my name spelt correctly, they couldn't get my birthday correct, they couldn't get my social security number correct, they were sending my paperwork to the wrong doctor's offices. I had told them that I wanted to go to comprehensive cancer centers of Nevada. That's where I will find a doctorate. they just couldn't get my paperwork correct, even to go get the the biopsies done. So finally after I got that done, at least got the test done, and I went and saw the oncologist, she referred me to a different breast specialist that works with comprehensive cancer centers of Nevada. And that's when I fired the other doctor because I one, If I didn't fire her, my dad was gonna fire her. Cause when I told him that I fired her, he says, Thank God, because I wasn't gonna walk back in that office with you again. I said, I didn't want to walk back in that office either. So everything happens for a reason. I'm glad that I got rid of her because then the two doctors that I end up having, my oncologist, which is the what I would call the cancer doctor, I call her my life-saving doctor, and then my breast specialist, who's the one that handles the surgeries, were absolutely hands down amazing. I I my experience with both of them just I even about my oncologists. I talk about her all the time. When we all first met with her, me, my dad, and my other friend Diana, she sat in that office for about an hour and a half with the three of us, went through everything in in in detail, broke it down so I could understand it. She looked at my dad and said, What questions do you have? Looked at my best friend and said, What question do you have? And then looked at me and said, You have a notebook. What are your questions? And sat there and I went through my entire notebook. She let me write down my answers and everything. And it was Weird to say an amazing experience because the time that she took and the care that she took, not just for me, but also asking my family and friend what are their questions, what are their concerns, you know, how what's your involvement and stuff too. So I'm glad that I fired that first lady. speaker-1: Yes. Yes, that's so important. First of all, we're human. Like introduce yourself, say hello, and this is huge news that you're receiving. And educate, like doctors should educate on what is happening to your body. You're young, like you said, and it doesn't matter the age, we don't know the language. It's a totally different language. And it's nice to have somebody to talk to you that you can understand. In the terms that they're saying a breast doctor? I've never heard of that. speaker-0: Yep, a breast specialist. Yeah. Thank you. speaker-1: Specialist thinking. speaker-0: Yep. And so they're the ones that basically do the massectomy and they obviously help make sure that they remove all of the breast tissue and cancer cells out while the oncologist is your doctor that basically monitors and maintains the treatment part of everything. So but hey, I didn't know all these different doctors because even on top of that, you have a third doctor who is your plastic surgeon if you choose to do reconstruction. So there's actually three doctors in the process. Your oncologist who does the treatments, your breast specialist who monitors the actual breasts themselves, and then your reconstruction plastic surgeon who does the reconstruction if you decide to, you know, have that done. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. And it would be a little bit nerve wracking walking in like to the first doctor's office and your dad asking, you know, what about this other treatment or whatever? Well, I've never heard of it, but that's not an option. Okay, but if you've never heard of it, how do you know that that's not an option? And is that something that we could possibly explore? Was one thought that I had. And then the other one, it's like, you know, these doctors, they do this day in and day out. This is normal. These are words that they use all the time. And it's like, you've got cancer. Yeah, you the other person did too. Come on in, just it's like, okay, yes. Like BB said, This is the fur you know, we're human. This is the first time I'm experiencing this. And if you could just sit down and help me do this. Exactly. speaker-2: What is speaker-1: Exactly. speaker-0: It was it was scary. That first doctor scared me and but like I said, when I met my second the oncologist and then she referred me to that other breast specialist speaker-1: Made up. speaker-0: ever for everything. Everything happens for a reason. And I had to maybe go through that experience. So one of the first things after I found stuff out and I kinda got involved, some and I met other girls that were going through this. They told me that you will learn very quickly to be your own health and medical advocate. I didn't know what that meant. Until that very first doctor and I had to make sure they got my paperwork correct. The simplest speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: things of making sure my date of birth and my last name is spelt with an S, not a Z. Am I you know what I'm saying? And so I learned very quickly on what that meant of how I was gonna start to have to advocate for myself when it came to health and medical and insurance. Cause insurance is fun. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, the little things. If you can't trust them with the little things, what are they gonna do with the big things? speaker-0: And that's crazy hard too is I don't trust doctors. I mean, they call it practicing medicine for a reason. We're they're all still practic they may have gone to school for a bajillion years, but they're still practicing medicine. We don't know what really does what to anybody or anything, to be honest. so having to now rely on a doctor and basically a team. To help me save my life was a little like, how did how I I don't even like to I I I put my life in my own hands. I don't want anybody to do that even in general. So now I have to trust a professional that I barely trust as it is. but like I said, when I met Doctor Christensen, the the the a I just flowed. I immediately just loved her and trusted her and knew that she would get me through this. And she did speaker-1: Mm. Can you say a little bit more about being your own advocate in specifically with insurance and like in the medical world? speaker-0: Yeah. So in the medical world, obviously, first kind of thing was with that first doctor of trying to just make sure I get the paperwork marked right and like put in right and it's supposed to be Mark Stat. Why is it not Mark's stat? Why is my this, that, and the other, and learning that? And then going through the process with insurance of having to get approvals for stuff. So one, our company that we worked for, we had good insurance. I paid for my insurance. Even throughout my process when it was time to renew, my company also added an another platinum plan just specifically for me to have so that way I had even the the better insurance that our company offered. so that was nice, but still deal with the insurance company because you have to go through these different approvals and you have to, they don't like to do things very quickly. and just seeing like the bills that would go through of how doctors build insurance companies as well as Insane, but we are all in the wrong profession. Hands down, we should all be in insurance, medical insurance specifically, or pharmaceuticals, to be honest, because like one of my kind of bouncing all over the place, one of my treatments the day after my treatment because I had three different chemos. After one of my treatments, I had to get this shot called the Lunesta shot, and it makes your bones create. Bone marrow so that way you keep up on your white blood cells. That shot was sixteen thousand dollars billed to my insurance company. speaker-1: my goodness. speaker-0: Right? Yeah. That's that was actually double the chemo treatment. And so I just started learning how to read these bills and like what they were charging for and certain things that they were charging and why they were charging this. Cause I had you know, you also don't know when you're having surgeries. Every single thing that they touch for your body or in that surgery room or anything, the sheets that this every single thing is itemized on that bill. Every single doctor, whether you know that they're touching you or not, now sends you a bill or send your insurance company a bill as well. And it's just it's crazy to see that and learn about that. And then having to call my insurance company and fight for why I had to have a gen I had to have a gene a genealogical test done. And that's how I found out why what caused my cancer. But like trying to get them to approve that because they don't like to approve like that because of how expensive it is. it was just like a a fight sometimes to get things done. And it was annoying to be honest. Like I I'm I kind of on limited time is what I felt like, but also at the same time I kind of was because my doctor did tell me with the and we'll we can get more into like the type of breast cancer I have and how I found that out, but st statistically with the type of breast cancer that I had, if I would have gone without treatments, I was looking at 12 months. speaker-1: my god. speaker-0: And that was statistically for the type that I had. So I didn't have really a lot of time, to be honest, to make decisions. Cause I obviously wasn't gonna wait months and then miss my opportunity of being cured or cleared or whatever, you know. But insurance is not fun. It's they they it's a total rip-off in my opinion. I paid for good health insurance, and I still came out of pocket fifteen thousand dollars of if not then that that's just medical expenses. That doesn't include like home expenses as well of you know, cause now I have to do things differently at home. but even with paying for insurance and and coming out of pocket like that, I could have quit my job and got the state insurance and went to the same doctors and not paid a dime for anything. Which I think is insane to think about as well. speaker-1: Mm mm mm my word. That's insane. What what kind of things, if you don't mind sharing, did you have to change at home? speaker-0: well just like with with cause I obviously I I stayed working full time. I only took treatment day off of work. I needed I did that purposely because I couldn't afford to to to take off work. Obviously I have I had a house that I had to pay for. I lived by myself, I did all that stuff by myself and had to still pay for my life. so at home financial wise, I just had to like dumb things down. And it it may sound silly, but like, well, I'm a shopaholic. I like to buy stuff. But so like I had to like change things like that in my life where I couldn't just go and buy something or shop for something because I didn't know exactly how much my out of pocket was gonna be for A, B, C, or D. I'm not the type of person that asks for money. my friend made me get a go fund me and and she monitored that for me because I'm not even the type of person that wanted to ask for a go fund me. My dad did help out a little bit financially, but then that came to a halt with his lovely wife. speaker-1: Wait, speaker-0: so I did a lot of that by myself. So I had to change my personal spending habits and just different things, you know, dumbing down some of the bills in the house to make sure that I had money for these doctor's appointments or If I had to miss work, I wanted to make sure that I had, because I'm not a saver, unfortunately. I'm don't have money really in savings. I don't save money. I work to spend my money. That's how I I think. So I had to make I wanted to make sure I had stuff put away. So if I had to take time off work without pay or something, because luckily my company paid me for all my time off except for the time I took off for surgery, which was very much appreciated. but I had to change things. So I had Funds to be able to to pay to save my life, to be honest. speaker-1: Mm. Yes. Wow. That's a lot. The itemized thing. Like I moved I shifted quickly, but now I'm back onto like how each little item is e everything they touch, like you said, or anybody that touches you, anything that's in there. speaker-0: My surgery for my mastectomy and the start of the reconstruction, I was in the hospital. It was an outpatient surgery. So I was in the hospital from time of check-in to the time of release, maybe eight hours, nine hours total, like between you know pre-op and recovery. And not the doctors, just the hospital bill that went to my insurance company was 132,000. thousand dollars. I mean the sheets that were on the bed, when they transfer you from this bed to this bed, that bed gets charged, that bed gets charged, the light, the I mean, anything that's in that surgery room is on that bill as well, which is it it was just blew my mind how and thinking, well gosh, thank gosh I didn't have to stay like a day or a night. Like can you it was it but yeah they itemize everything out like that. It was it was crazy to see the bills going through To the to the insurance company. And and it's what's even funnier is that's not what they get paid by the insurance company. I don't know how that part works. It's like they overbill because places only get paid what their contract is with that insurance company. So I don't know why they overbill when they know they're not gonna get paid that. So there's definitely something in the middle there where someone's pocketing something, in my opinion. So speaker-1: Like they're claiming a loss or something. We here's the hundred and thirty two thousand, but we're only gonna get paid this much and now we're left over with this much and speaker-0: Some kind of tax write off or something, I would think. They probably have all those kind loopholes like that. But yeah. But yeah, they itemized everything out. It was crazy. speaker-1: That is crazy. It and so for somebody that's not like you, where it's like, okay, I'm gonna look at these bills and you're a researcher, you know, you're getting these bills, you're not just gonna like throw them or chuck them or you know, you're gonna go through and say, like, what is this and try to figure it out. For somebody that isn't like that and they're just getting these bills, would you say that that would be I don't know if dangerous is a word, but that it could be costly because I mean, you probably caught stuff. speaker-0: I could definitely see it to be overwhelming as well. Because when you're going through this crazy thing, you don't know if you're gonna really live or die. You have to start doing these treatments and all this, and then you start to get these different bills, and you see these bills, you're like, wait, I I I paid my out-of-pocket. Why are they sending me this? Or how much out-of-pocket do I have to pay of this? And it I definitely feel like it could be overwhelming and it could get costly. I mean, there are people that you know aren't as fortunate and they have to pay. tens of thousands of dollars for cancer treatments. And I don't really know how or why that's different with other people. But I mean, I do know there's people that have to pay a lot of money, which is I don't think that you should have to pay for treatments like this in my own personal opinion. I think that stuff like this should be I don't know if how it's paid for by the state, the government, however that may work, but I definitely don't think that people should have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to save their life when they have insurance or they have different resources. That's like I I try to qualify for different programs that are supposed to help funding, but I make too much money. You know, I I'm never poor enough to get resources or help. And I don't say that in a derogatory or negative way, but it sucks that just because I work a full time job and I got decent money and I was I was paid well that thou that now makes me not able to qualify for help. with something that I have no idea how much it could have costed me. And that's what kinda sucks too is that some people don't have that ability to get those resources and funding to help them with stuff too. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did you when you were paying for the like your copays and all of that, was it the copay or how did the all the amount that you had to pay, how did that get figured if you did have insurance, you were paying monthly? That's a lot of money to still pay on top of your monthly health insurance. speaker-0: Yep. I just kind of figured it out as but every time I made a new doctor's appointment, my first question was, what is my out-of-pocket? What's my copay? What's my deductible? I monitored. Every time I had to pay a deductible, I monitored how close I was getting to because once you get to your total out-of-pocket for the year, then you don't pay a dime. So my whole goal was to My whole goal was to have everything done within the first year. I was not going into a second year. I was not having everything start all over and the money come out of pocket all over again. So I was like, once I got cleared from one thing, schedule the next. And I just kind of played it by each appointment and asking questions like, okay, what's my out of pocket? What's my deductible? Making sure I'm looking at my stuff on my insurance stuff online to know how much I'm getting more and more to that deductible out of pocket so I could budget for how much more I'd have to have for A, B, C, or D appointment. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: It was it was a little stressful. I'm pretty good with money. I'm a bookkeeper. but it was stressful trying to figure out like and it's sometimes they're like, well it could be from it could range from this to this. I'm like, Okay, well then I guess I'm just gonna plan for the higher amount and bring the two thousand dollars with me versus a thousand 'cause I'd rather be a rounder upper than a rounder downer and then get a bill. So speaker-1: Yeah, I can only imagine somebody that doesn't think like you, Summer, that isn't like looking at all the details or doesn't manage money well or doesn't know like how to budget, or even if they know all of that, you're the one going through this huge ordeal. That alone and then being on chemo or treatment, that is hard enough to focus on staying alive, let alone having to pay. To stay alive, to document not just like your symptoms, your finances and everything that comes with with chemo, which is a lot. That's crazy. Advocating for yourself is so hard when you're the one in the middle of everything. Yep. Wow. And still having to go to work. my speaker-0: Yep. speaker-1: gosh. Like your health became your second job. speaker-0: One of the things that my the one of the first things that my oncologist told me is don't stop living your life. If you're able to still work full time, work full time. If you're still able to go to the gym, go to the gym. If you're still able to meal prep, do everything that you can because it's all in your head too. Your body reacts to depression, this and that. So that's one thing is she's like, You're so positive going into this. If you keep that, your body is going to react to that. So keep doing your normal everyday stuff. Cause that's a lot of people that kind of have the harder side of things is they they can't go to work anymore. They stop going to work. And now you kind of fall into a depression. So I kept my job. I worked, I only took, like I said, Wednesdays off of work, which was treatment days. Every now and then, Thursday, I would sometimes come in late and sometimes leave early because I didn't really feel good the next day after. But other than that, I I worked full time. Even with my surgeries, I took the minimum minimal time off. because I I one, I like to work. I kind of a workaholic. I don't like to sit at home, I don't like to do nothing, my brain just does not operate well. I I have to go, go, go all the time. But it it was it got hard every now and then. But I I worked full time. I I went to the gym until I got too exhausted that I just couldn't physically ex I used I did a really strenuous workout. So I probably could have like done something a little less strenuous, but I was so used to doing my high intensity HIT workouts. but I so I there got to a point where I couldn't do those anymore. but other than that I try to do I try to keep my life as normal as possible. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. That's a really good thing to think about. Like I hadn't even thought that that would be something that they would tell you keep going to the gym, keep meal prepping, which makes sense, like as you're saying it, because it does keep your state of mind in a positive state and more of like, okay, this is normal, I'm still doing the thing. Like your nervous system is still thinking like, we're still kind of good because you're physically you're fighting, you know, to stay alive, but maybe with the help of your nervous system kind of Keeping you kind of normal. speaker-0: I feel like it regulated me a little bit. speaker-1: Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that something might not have been approved by the insurance or they were having a hard time approving a certain test, which is very frustrating. That reminds me it's like, okay, so the insurance is gonna pay your bills as long as they approve it. So if they don't approve it and you don't get the treatment, then you're out of luck, I guess. speaker-0: Yep, or you figure out how to pay for it. so yeah, so I when I so there's no history in my family on mom's side. Dad's side, I don't know anything about. My dad was adopted at three months old out of a Greek orphanage in Greece, in Athens, Greece. So we don't know anything about his biological family. On my mother's side, we have tons of women. There is no breast cancer, no breast issues, no anything. So now they're trying to figure out, you know, what type of cancer I have. Is it like one of the ones that's caused by hormones or is it not? So once the oncologists and the breastwashers found out that I was half Greek and that my don't know anything about my dad's history, that's when they wanted to get the gene test done to see if I had BRCA one or BROCCA two. Mediterraneans are one of the top four that carry the BRCA gene. So that was one of the reasons why they pushed the insurance company to have me tested because I was 36 years old, no family history of breast cancer, and I was Mediterranean. so luckily they pushed for it, but I had to go through a whole process for like a week or two before the insurance company would even appro I had to do these different interviews before they would even approve for me to have the actual test done. but I ended up getting the test done. I was found out that I do have Broca 1. which is what ca which is basically a DNA breakdown. so I was basically born to get cancers in my blood that I was gonna eventually get, whether it be breast cancer, skin cancer, or ovarian cancer, because the Bronca one causes all three of those types of cancers. it's even more interesting that I inherit it from my dad, who is which is it's very rare that you inherit it from your father's side, you normally inherit it from your mother's side. and it's how I know that I got it from my dad is I ended up having my dad get tested so that way I knew which brother, because I have a brother that has the same dad, and I have a brother that has a different dad. and my mom was dead, obviously, so I couldn't have her tested. So I wanted to get my dad tested so I knew which brother to tell to start doing preventative maintenance for, because it's rare, but men do get breast cancer as well. And the Braca one also causes, I believe prostate cancer, if I remember correctly. So I wanted to let which brother know to start doing pr some preventative testing you're getting at that age where you should be getting these things looked at anyway. so that's how I end up finding out that I inherited it from my dad's side. speaker-1: So tell us about the Braca One and Braca Two. Like what does that mean? speaker-0: is it gene. I don't know exactly It's a it's a gene mutation. and I don't can't really remember the difference between one and two to be honest. I know that Bronco one causes what they call triple negative breast cancer, which is breast cancer that's not caused by your hormones or your prestosterones. It's caused by the gene mutation itself. And I can't remember the difference between the Broca 2. I should I I meant to do my research, but I didn't. speaker-1: That's okay. speaker-0: I'm a researcher, but I didn't do it for this one. But and it's but it it's what causes it can cause breast cancer, skin cancer, and ovarian cancer in women, and then breast cancer and prostate cancer in men. and it's I can't remember exactly how they worded it, but it's basically whether like your DNA change just has a break in it. So one of the three chemos I did Is a certain type of chemo that helps repair that DNA chain. because my doctor's whole goal is to not be in remission, but to be cured. Because in her mind, remission means that it's gonna come back. Cured means that she did her job and cured the cancer to not come back. So that's the terminology that my doctor likes to use. so again, one of the three chemos was to help repair that DNA break basically of that mutation. speaker-1: So speaker-0: And also, randomly, the triple negative breast cancer that I had is actually the most aggressive breast cancer there is. And that's why they had given me statistically if I without treatment, I could have had twelve months because it's so aggressive. She explained to me when I was asked her about the how they found more. She says that is how it was think of it as like weeds growing inside your breast and that they just start popping up and once they start popping up, they don't stop, kind of thing. And random, you can actually have a breast tumor for up to five years before you can feel it yourself. Which I speaker-1: my god. speaker-0: thought that was an another reason why I think you should be having screenings done well before 40, because by the time you're 40, you may have already had something for five or six years and didn't it wasn't at the surface where you felt it. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. speaker-0: Which I thought that was interesting to learn about as well. speaker-1: Yes. So much that I'm learning right now. This is wild. Mm-hmm. and so I thought already as you're telling this specific story, I thought there's part two, part three. Same. I thought dad being adopted. I that speaker-0: Like I told you, I got stories for an entire series. speaker-1: Yes. Your mom passing away, that's a whole that's not even touching childhood. That's just touching your parents. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: You you know, I I got I got a lot going on. I mean, even probably this like the breast cancer stuff, this might even be part two, because I don't even know if how long your podcasts go or if we'll even get through everything that we may want to talk about with the breast cancer stuff, because I feel like there's still a lot to to talk about with it. That's like one of the things with I can't remember which podcast, I do apologize, but like that's like the the medical trauma part. I legit sometimes forget that I even had breast cancer. Like I that's why I say I don't feel like I'm traumatized by anything. Like I don't feel like I have PTSD like other people talk about. Maybe it's because I chose not to live in fear of always thinking I'm gonna get it again or this, that, or the other. But like I don't feel like I have PTSD. I don't feel traumatized from it. There are times where I literally forget that I went through breast cancer. Like I don't know if it's just like out of sight, out of mind. I'm very good at just like, it's over with. Thanks. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Life goes on. Let's let's keep going. Let's laugh about it, you know? 'Cause it's funny that you almost died. Ha ha So it's like one of those things that I just I don't feel and maybe it's 'cause my experience through it wasn't stereotypical like other people's experience. I was not sick like other people were. I wasn't I didn't get I didn't lose weight like I gained Every pound plus more that I had lost back because of all the steroids that they pump you up on. So I think that maybe that's why I don't why I kind of like no so nonchalant about it sometimes is that I didn't have the experience that maybe most people have with cancer or breast cancer. I mean I did, but I didn't, if that makes sense. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And too, like your life leading up to breast cancer. That's what I thought. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I would think that's like such a a minimal quote unquote thing to happen if you've already I don't know your childhood, but just from the bits I'm catching, I can only imagine. Like, cancer, that's too easy. In and out, got it fixed. It's not even a a thing in your mind anymore or ever because it just happened and now it's over. Yep. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And something that you haven't even talked about, it was not only, you know, okay, so let's keep going into your story because so your cancer, they get all the cancer out, but then like your breast was not the only thing that they ended up removing. speaker-0: Right. So kind of backtrack I had went through my treatments. I went through I did five months, which doesn't sound like a long time, but I guess it kind of is at the same time. But I did three different types of chemo, five months of of chemo. When I caught my breast cancer, it was early on. I was a stage two A. so th early detection. you know, because if not, it could have been worse. It was not in my lymph nodes, so I did not have to have radiation done, which thank goodness, because I that can do a lot of damage to your body. and I had the surgeries done, so I did the the massectomy and started the reconstruction, but then preventative maintenance. we took we did what they call ovorectomy, which is your fallopian tubes and your ovaries, because the Bronca 1 can also cause ovarian cancer. Random side note is I've never wanted kids. I've never wanted to give birth. I've never wanted to be pregnant. It's never in my forefront, like, ooh, let me have a baby. Never. I've always been on a type of birth control. I've always wanted to have my girly insides removed throughout my 20s, throughout my 30s. Doctors won't do it. You're too young. You may change your mind one day. And it's like, hello, my body, my choice. Isn't that the world we live in now? But no, that's not entirely true. But doctors would not take out my insides, wouldn't it tie my tubes, wouldn't do anything because you might change your mind one day. I knew I did not want children of my own. I don't have children. I have stepkids now, but I do not have children of my own. funny that it took me getting cancer to finally have my girly insides removed. speaker-1: Well. speaker-0: Which I find kind of ironic that I've been 'cause if I would have had a kid, I had a high chance of now passing this gene on. To my kid, especially if she was a daughter. So that makes me even happier that I didn't have children, because then now I don't have to worry about my kids going through this or having to get tested for this, or gosh forbid, getting cancer. So it it all worked itself in, but kind of funny that it took me getting cancer to make that happen. speaker-1: That is that is crazy. Funny not funny, huh? speaker-0: They didn't question me then when I wanted it removed. speaker-1: Exactly. And not everybody is, you know, thinks that way because at thirty six, what if you would have? But now you've got this Broca one gene and everything's being taken out. That can be really a really hard decision, like you said, that you're needing to make right now. We can't think about it. We can't research. We can't, you know, even process it. It needs to happen because it is gonna save your life. And at the same time, like for you, it worked out. speaker-0: Yeah. I think it's I do feel sad for women that were my age or younger that have to make those decisions that don't have kids yet and that want kids. Again, I never wanted it, so I was okay. It didn't fit I was like, Yes, let's go. Finally. but it it does make me sad for people that want kids and have never had kids and now They can't. They can make a choice of maybe saving some of their eggs and like doing that kind of process. but I think Broca too can cause uterine cancer. So if you have to have preventative surgery for that, they're now taking your uterus. So therefore, you there's no point in saving your eggs because you can't carry a baby now, obviously you don't have a uterus. So things like that, it it does make me sad for people that would want to have kids and are not given that opportunity because of something like that. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. And with them doing that surgery, didn't it put you into menopause or something? speaker-0: Yeah, so first I was in chemo induced menopause because the chemo automatically makes you stop your period. And those hot flashes are super fun. speaker-1: Mm. speaker-0: Yeah. They were my house was like 65 degrees at all times. speaker-1: That's where I'm at right now. speaker-0: Right. And then and then yeah, when I had the surgery, obviously when they take your ovaries away, that's what produces your hormones. so then I went into surgical. menopause. And now seven years later I'm officially post menopausal since it's been over a year or whatever without having any of that kind of stuff, which I love to be honest. So speaker-1: Mm-hmm. So there are different types, surgical menopause, the chemo menopause. That's also news to me. speaker-0: Yep. So one was a chemical induced menopause because of the chemo. And then you have the surgically induced, which is when you have a surgery to have that kind of stuff removed. Or you get to be so lucky like so many women and go through it naturally. speaker-1: More years than a million years. speaker-0: And I will say I think that one of the things that I liked about the process, to be honest, is that I'm not gonna I'm not going through ten plus years of this perimenopause that's the new word that's being thrown around now. Like I went through it, yes, every now and then I still have some hot flashes. I get overheated easier now, but done I don't I Like the like the different side effects that women talk about about perimenopause. And I'm like, I don't I don't have any of that. I don't take I've never taken like hormone therapy stuff, anything like that. I just I don't know if I just toughed it out or my doctor never recommended anything like that to me either. So maybe it just wasn't something that she I I've I've never looked into it. I've never needed I never thought that I needed hormony. I've used peppermint oil for hot flashes or ice cubes and Though the the weight gain obviously came with surgeries and chemo, and then in the middle of all that was awesome COVID. So that took into account of gaining weight back too and and and maybe the the surgical menopause did help me gain the weight that I was gaining too. But I I feel like the different symptoms that women have, I don't I don't have those postmenopausal things. And I don't know if it's normal, abnormal, but I whatever. speaker-1: Mm. I didn't know that you weren't taking hormones. For some reason I thought that they had you take hormones right afterwards. No? speaker-0: Mm-mm. they did have me take a medication called tamo tamoxin, which is supposed to help. So one of my tumors was a very low percentage of hormone, but that's not what caused my cancer. So the doctor's idea was well, we can put you on this medication that can help reduce the risk of getting hormone, you know, cancer. And I didn't like the effects of it. I took it for Two months, didn't like it, and I told the doctor, I'll take my chances. I don't want to be on a medication that's gonna make me feel like this. I don't like feeling like this. I'd rather just take my chances living life and feeling better. so I chose to come off the medication for that, but it wasn't a hormone therapy type medication. It was for reducing your risks of I can't remember what it did, but to reduce the risk of getting a hormone receptive cancer. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. So you go through all this and everything's taken out and then you chose, not everybody does, but you did choose to do reconstructive surgery. So if that resonated with anybody and or everybody, make sure that you like, subscribe, follow, all the things you know what to do and how to do it. speaker-2: and why it needs to happen. Just do it. Smash all those buttons.