Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 176: You Can’t Start a Convo with F-You

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Ep. 176: You Can’t Start a Convo with F-You · The MeatEater Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming in you shirtless, severely
0:13
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening Hunt don't either podcast.
0:18
Speaker 1: You can't predict anything presented by on x Hunt creators
0:22
Speaker 1: are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download
0:26
Speaker 1: the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store.
0:29
Speaker 1: Nor where you stand with on XU. Yannie likes to say, okay,
0:35
Speaker 1: we're on, Well he use that earlier? Did he? I
0:43
Speaker 1: want to recap something because we're having a little pre
0:45
Speaker 1: a pre chat. Uh who's been like? Who here's been
0:49
Speaker 1: to jail? I can't tell you. I can't tell you've
0:53
Speaker 1: been to jail a bunch. And now I was trying
0:55
Speaker 1: to backpedal. No, No, I've not. I've not I've been
0:58
Speaker 1: to a jail, but I've not like on a school
1:00
Speaker 1: to her, yes, yes, to check it out, just to
1:02
Speaker 1: see what I thought of it and whether or not
1:03
Speaker 1: I wanted to get involved. And it set me straight.
1:06
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go back. You didn't want to
1:08
Speaker 1: rule it. You didn't rule it out without having taken
1:10
Speaker 1: a look. I just thought, like, in jail, there's just
1:13
Speaker 1: so many things I wouldn't be able to do that
1:16
Speaker 1: I'd like to go do so, I thought, oh I
1:18
Speaker 1: should Probably I did. I didn't stop breaking the law.
1:21
Speaker 1: I just got smarter. You were like, if I'm gonna
1:23
Speaker 1: do this, I'm gonna do it right. Yeah. I knew
1:24
Speaker 1: who to give money to and stuff like that. If
1:26
Speaker 1: I got pulled over that kind of thing. We just
1:28
Speaker 1: did a school tour, they would not have allowed me
1:32
Speaker 1: to be anywhere near a school. Well do you have children? Oh? Yeah,
1:37
Speaker 1: how many kids you got? I got to two daughters,
1:40
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. Talking to Travis Schwartz who goes by
1:43
Speaker 1: Hank Patterson. Do you know what? I want to get
1:44
Speaker 1: back to jail and get back to my kids school
1:47
Speaker 1: to her? But I was driving a couple of weeks
1:50
Speaker 1: ago from Catchum, Idaho to Hear. I did that yesterday. Well,
1:55
Speaker 1: on on the way, I saw damn sign on a
1:58
Speaker 1: store that said something like welcome Hank Patterson. I saw
2:02
Speaker 1: something like Hank Patterson. Yeah, and I uh try to
2:08
Speaker 1: then find a landmark to be able to tell you
2:10
Speaker 1: this story better. Yeah, No, I know, I know it's not.
2:13
Speaker 1: My name is not on so many marquees in the
2:15
Speaker 1: in the Quetchum area that I don't know what we're
2:17
Speaker 1: talking about. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, Peekaboo
2:19
Speaker 1: Angler in Peekaboo, Idaho. That's where I saw it. Yeah,
2:23
Speaker 1: I saw it, took note, and then wanted to tell
2:25
Speaker 1: you the story, and I was like, you know, I'm
2:27
Speaker 1: gonna grab a better landmark and then and then whatever
2:30
Speaker 1: got distracted by the beauty of the landscape or something,
2:33
Speaker 1: so not here I am with a story that's like
2:35
Speaker 1: not as good as it could be. You were not
2:37
Speaker 1: for those listening. You were not far from Craters of
2:41
Speaker 1: the Moon, National Moon. We're not far from that. That
2:44
Speaker 1: was like, so you saw my name in lights under
2:47
Speaker 1: like unleaded gasoline three dollars in nineteen cents, and then
2:52
Speaker 1: the next thing you saw was welcome to creators of
2:55
Speaker 1: the Moon. Yes, yeah, congratulations. Yeah, I'm I'm big in
2:59
Speaker 1: that town. I never drive around and then see um
3:02
Speaker 1: a thing welcoming me on a sign yeah, which is
3:04
Speaker 1: randomly somebody in that area is probably now gonna like
3:10
Speaker 1: text or like email me that I'm not that big
3:13
Speaker 1: a deal in that yeah, or they're gonna go They're
3:17
Speaker 1: he's not that big a deal. What we're not going
3:19
Speaker 1: there for? What the welcoming well, so opening weekend fishing
3:23
Speaker 1: in Idaho. So a lot of the streams rivers in
3:25
Speaker 1: Idaho clothes for the spawn, and so it opens the
3:28
Speaker 1: weekend a Memorial Day, and so we put on a
3:30
Speaker 1: big um Opening Day celebration at peakbu Angler, which is
3:35
Speaker 1: on Silver Creek, which is my absolute favorite place on
3:39
Speaker 1: the planet to fish. And so it actually it's a
3:43
Speaker 1: town of like thirty people, and it is my favorite
3:48
Speaker 1: event of the year just based on the fact that,
3:50
Speaker 1: nostalgically speaking, I couldn't be more honored to be invited
3:54
Speaker 1: to speak and be a part of an event anywhere
3:57
Speaker 1: near Silver Creek. So yeah, hold that though, I gotta
4:01
Speaker 1: that brings up a couple of things I want to
4:02
Speaker 1: ask about, which I want to talk about. This one
4:04
Speaker 1: of the reasons I don't want to go I want talk.
4:06
Speaker 1: I want talk about going to the jail house because
4:08
Speaker 1: I'd a chaperone my oldest boys school field trip. The
4:13
Speaker 1: field trip we went to three places. We went to
4:18
Speaker 1: the old jail house and saw the gallows, which you're
4:22
Speaker 1: still sitting there, and we got to talk about the guy,
4:25
Speaker 1: the only guy they ever hung from that gallows, which
4:28
Speaker 1: my kids waste a good gallop made a very big
4:31
Speaker 1: impression on him. He likes to bring that up off
4:33
Speaker 1: and now. Uh. We then rolled over to the graveyard
4:37
Speaker 1: and to the graveyard, and we went to the county
4:40
Speaker 1: Recorder's office where you record property exchanges. Was there? I
4:45
Speaker 1: have to have I got a lot more out of
4:46
Speaker 1: this field trip than he did. What was there a
4:48
Speaker 1: through meaning? Did you see? Did they tell they got hung? No?
4:53
Speaker 1: Doubt had been great? And then went to went to Yeah,
4:56
Speaker 1: we went to other people's graves. But the best thing
4:59
Speaker 1: I learned him, know how I didn't know this. I
5:01
Speaker 1: didn't know that there uh that there are fishy circumstances
5:08
Speaker 1: around John Bozeman's death. Oh you guys, you guys look
5:15
Speaker 1: basically familiar with this dude. Like Bowsman pass boat made
5:19
Speaker 1: the Bowsman Trail, which cut off the Oregon Trail and
5:22
Speaker 1: brought people up to the gold fields. Yeah. Uh, they
5:27
Speaker 1: were dicking around on the Yellowstone in eighteen sixties. Who's
5:32
Speaker 1: Who's the day in this story? Came in a couple
5:34
Speaker 1: of his buddies, a couple of ne'er do wells, local figures.
5:39
Speaker 1: They're dicking around on the Yellowstone and they come back
5:41
Speaker 1: and like, oh John's dead, he got shot by the
5:43
Speaker 1: black feet. We buried him later. A guy on his
5:50
Speaker 1: deathbed fishy was pretty good. Oh yeah, yeah, he got
5:57
Speaker 1: killed and we buried him well. A guy on his deathbed,
6:00
Speaker 1: A buddy of his on his deathbed. I don't know
6:04
Speaker 1: if deathbed confessions are real, but supposedly the guy has
6:06
Speaker 1: a deathbed confession that did he got it was? It
6:13
Speaker 1: was frature side over some cattle dispute. They shot him.
6:19
Speaker 1: And then the guy that the deathbed confession gets made
6:21
Speaker 1: to send some of his cowboys over there, and they
6:23
Speaker 1: dig his body up, and he got his knife is
6:27
Speaker 1: nice in the old jail house on display and uh,
6:31
Speaker 1: and they dug him up and buried him overround the
6:33
Speaker 1: hill here at the graveyard in town. M huh. Think
6:36
Speaker 1: about that. I didn't know about that part of the story.
6:40
Speaker 1: His tomb in the graveyard up there, he says, killed
6:43
Speaker 1: by black feet. They haven't, they haven't. I'm gonna put
6:47
Speaker 1: a parenthetical somebody's going there at night, and chisel in
6:50
Speaker 1: a parenthetical like as not. According to Doug, a favorite
6:56
Speaker 1: seats for a lot of stuff back then. Yeah, like
6:59
Speaker 1: who did it? Oh? Yeah, so it looked like blackfeet.
7:04
Speaker 1: Everyone probably bought it right away? Was that a thing?
7:06
Speaker 1: Back then? You just bury a guy right where you
7:08
Speaker 1: like you didn't, wouldn't you haven't. They would have had
7:12
Speaker 1: to drag him back over the past that now bears
7:14
Speaker 1: his name, and maybe that felt yeah effort, really yeah,
7:19
Speaker 1: you know it doesn't matter. So can you start out, Travis? Yeah, oh,
7:25
Speaker 1: introduce yourself? Yeah, h Miles Nulty, director fishing here at
7:30
Speaker 1: meat Eater. You've been on before. I have been on
7:33
Speaker 1: lunch twice. Jannis, thank you? Okay, great, good stuff, really nice,
7:39
Speaker 1: really nice. And I've been asking for a title for
7:43
Speaker 1: a year now and everybody's like, I tell you what
7:49
Speaker 1: boss of all Knowledge? I was gonna say chief okay
7:54
Speaker 1: with the c ko uh Sam Sam Longer, fishing editor
7:59
Speaker 1: also working this lovely office place. And then traffic, can
8:03
Speaker 1: you explain where you end? And Hank Patterson begins, what
8:06
Speaker 1: is Hank Patterson? Who is Hank Patterson? It takes us
8:11
Speaker 1: back to that Mitch Headward joke doesn't like is Hank
8:15
Speaker 1: Patterson's My is an alter ego? I guess you would
8:18
Speaker 1: call it so I I uh, I used to want
8:21
Speaker 1: to make fishing films, fly fishing films. Seriously, I used
8:24
Speaker 1: to want to No, no, no, no, well yeah no
8:27
Speaker 1: I did. That's true. So Hank started because I was
8:30
Speaker 1: I was doing a documentary on taking Guys with Cancer fishing,
8:33
Speaker 1: and I needed to real Yeah yeah, I needed to
8:36
Speaker 1: raise some hard to parody. Yeah no, that would have been.
8:39
Speaker 1: It would not have It would not have been. That
8:44
Speaker 1: would have ended Hank Patterson really really early. This is hilarious.
8:50
Speaker 1: So we're making this documentary. And so about the documentary though,
8:54
Speaker 1: so for real recovery organization, we take men with with
8:57
Speaker 1: cancer fly fishing. My buddy Reese was going, yeah, yeah,
9:02
Speaker 1: So I'm on their their national Board of Directors, which
9:04
Speaker 1: should tell you that they need better director like board people.
9:09
Speaker 1: I'm not doing a good job. I did a decent
9:12
Speaker 1: job on the film, but but I'm a terrible board member.
9:15
Speaker 1: I don't do you know anything I anyway? So, uh,
9:18
Speaker 1: you know, so, my my buddy Reese, he had cancer
9:21
Speaker 1: and he was going to go on this retreat and
9:23
Speaker 1: we needed to raise some money to make this documentary.
9:25
Speaker 1: And uh, the Drake magazine was doing a contest fly
9:30
Speaker 1: fishing film contest, uh and humor was the category. And
9:34
Speaker 1: so my buddy Reese calls me up he said, hey,
9:36
Speaker 1: they're they're doing a funny thing. You're funny. I'm I'm funny.
9:40
Speaker 1: This is what I do for really, I'm due. No,
9:42
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm funny. And so I said, okay, so
9:45
Speaker 1: what what you know? Have you ever seen a funny
9:47
Speaker 1: fly fishing film? And he said no? And I said, okay,
9:49
Speaker 1: so the bar is where we needed because I'm not
9:52
Speaker 1: that and with the river. Yeah. So I I sat
9:57
Speaker 1: up one night and I wrote the first Hayk Patterson
10:00
Speaker 1: episode and then uh, and then we went out the
10:02
Speaker 1: next day and we shot it and then I edited
10:05
Speaker 1: it that night and overnighted it and in one so
10:09
Speaker 1: why Patterson? Well, I had no ideas, and so I
10:13
Speaker 1: had done another character on a on a film that
10:15
Speaker 1: I was in. Oh, so Hank was my dad's dog's name.
10:21
Speaker 1: And then Patterson. I just went on Facebook and I
10:23
Speaker 1: just started scrolling through names and my buddy Michael Patterson
10:26
Speaker 1: came up. And so it was all very last minute,
10:29
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, but from from the phone call
10:31
Speaker 1: of hey, we should make a funny fly fishing film
10:34
Speaker 1: to sending the finished product out was like twenty seven
10:37
Speaker 1: hours and and uh and and so and it's it's
10:42
Speaker 1: probably the best episode. I should probably one like a
10:44
Speaker 1: South Park thing, right, so I should probably do them
10:46
Speaker 1: all in a truncated amount of time instead of overthinking it.
10:50
Speaker 1: It's I think it's just called episode one. I don't
10:53
Speaker 1: We didn't have a really elaborate titles back then, you know,
10:56
Speaker 1: because we didn't figure we would ever make another one.
11:00
Speaker 1: But then people sent me some free waiters, and I
11:02
Speaker 1: thought we should I need I need a fly rod,
11:04
Speaker 1: so we should make another one. And so people kept
11:06
Speaker 1: sending me free stuff and yeah, oh I got, I got. Yeah,
11:13
Speaker 1: I could open a shop at this point, and people
11:15
Speaker 1: are always asking, well, why do you you should give
11:17
Speaker 1: some of that stuff away? Or you should would you
11:19
Speaker 1: sell me your you know, rod box or something like that. No,
11:22
Speaker 1: it's there will come a time, and it's probably soon
11:25
Speaker 1: where people are like, don't give this guy any more
11:27
Speaker 1: free stuff. He's worn out his welcome. So the more
11:31
Speaker 1: about the real thing though, yeah, the cancer thing. Yeah,
11:35
Speaker 1: so well, so Reese my my friend. So that's who
11:38
Speaker 1: started How many how many people do you know? I
11:41
Speaker 1: want with the back I want the backstory though. How
11:43
Speaker 1: many people do you guys take? How many people does
11:46
Speaker 1: your organization host or how many how many cancer patients
11:49
Speaker 1: do you guys take out his end of life people
11:52
Speaker 1: some of them? Yeah, yeah for sure. So thirty two
11:54
Speaker 1: retreats across the country. I am on the board for
11:59
Speaker 1: the nash Anal Organization and then I also am one
12:01
Speaker 1: of the people that runs the Idaho Retreat and so
12:05
Speaker 1: we take each Each retreat takes you twelve to fifteen guys.
12:09
Speaker 1: Is about how many you can fit um in a retreat.
12:12
Speaker 1: It's all free, so the participants don't pay anything at all.
12:15
Speaker 1: So every organization or chapter has has been tasked with
12:21
Speaker 1: raising the money to to take the guys out. And
12:23
Speaker 1: basically what they do is you come in on a
12:25
Speaker 1: Friday and and you mix up sort of a group therapy,
12:28
Speaker 1: like these discussions. These guys get to talk about things
12:31
Speaker 1: they've never been able to maybe talk about as far
12:34
Speaker 1: as their cancer experience. And uh so we'll sit in
12:37
Speaker 1: these group settings and have these uh we call him
12:40
Speaker 1: courageous conversations and uh we'll do that, and then we'll
12:44
Speaker 1: take them fishing, and then we'll come back and have
12:45
Speaker 1: another conversation. And so it's sort of a mix up
12:48
Speaker 1: of of that and and dinner and just hanging out
12:51
Speaker 1: and being around other guys that are going through a
12:53
Speaker 1: very similar experience. It's, um, you know, I'll admit that
12:58
Speaker 1: every year it comes up. I I I've got a
13:00
Speaker 1: busy schedule, and I'm like, oh man, it's it's the
13:03
Speaker 1: absolute best weekend of of my year every single time,
13:08
Speaker 1: partially because every single time I think, oh man, I
13:11
Speaker 1: don't know if I can go this year. I'm so busy.
13:13
Speaker 1: And then you go up there and you know, it's
13:15
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity to sort of see what what some
13:19
Speaker 1: other people are going through that might be a little
13:21
Speaker 1: more difficult than anything that you're experiencing. But I think
13:25
Speaker 1: everybody uses it. The buddies who are the guys that
13:28
Speaker 1: take these guys fishing, uh, sort of the guides. Um,
13:32
Speaker 1: I think everybody has a pretty emotional experience, and uh,
13:35
Speaker 1: it's it's a cool thing. Uh So you've gone people
13:39
Speaker 1: who then you've met many people who have then now
13:42
Speaker 1: passed away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's yeah, it's it's tough.
13:48
Speaker 1: I mean, we've we've had guys that you get close
13:50
Speaker 1: to and and you know, you know, it's like you know,
13:53
Speaker 1: what stage you know of cancer they're in, and what
13:56
Speaker 1: the likelihood is we certainly don't talk about that. I mean,
13:59
Speaker 1: we try to keep a very positive UM. The conversations
14:04
Speaker 1: and and the outlook for everybody is as positive as
14:07
Speaker 1: you can, UM. And when we're fishing, we don't usually
14:10
Speaker 1: much talk about cancer. It's that experience. They all come
14:13
Speaker 1: back every single without fail, every single time they come
14:16
Speaker 1: back from that first fishing outing and we sit in
14:20
Speaker 1: that group conversation, somebody will say the words, I didn't
14:23
Speaker 1: think about my cancer one time while I was while
14:26
Speaker 1: I was fishing. But it's tough. I mean that that
14:29
Speaker 1: you lose guys, but UM, but it's it's an honor
14:33
Speaker 1: to give them an experience where they get to uh
14:35
Speaker 1: not have cancer for a few hours on the water. UM. Reese,
14:38
Speaker 1: who started Hank Patterson with me, passed away a little
14:42
Speaker 1: over three years ago. So he had melanoma. Uh you
14:46
Speaker 1: know where sunscreen. Um had melanoma that just got into
14:50
Speaker 1: his system and ultimately he passed away from brain cancer.
14:53
Speaker 1: So one of my best friends, and so that he
14:55
Speaker 1: was forty four at the time, I suppose I have
15:00
Speaker 1: to I have to do math, and I'm really and
15:03
Speaker 1: Reese would be the first to tell you that in
15:04
Speaker 1: really have you have you found, um, I haven't had
15:09
Speaker 1: like I haven't had. I've had very limited exposure to
15:12
Speaker 1: people who uh had an illness where you knew kind
15:18
Speaker 1: of where it was headed right that you knew you
15:20
Speaker 1: had a finite period of time to live. I've seen
15:23
Speaker 1: it with old people. But you're at You're in a
15:25
Speaker 1: different space. Have you found that when you deal with
15:28
Speaker 1: people in their thirties, forties, fifties, whatever, um, and they
15:32
Speaker 1: know that they have some limited model time to be alive?
15:35
Speaker 1: Are they on average? Are they like kicking and screaming
15:39
Speaker 1: in to it, or do they hit like a point
15:42
Speaker 1: of of resignation moving toward that date? You know? I
15:47
Speaker 1: you asked me if I had kids. I have two
15:50
Speaker 1: daughters and they've they're both older, and they've moved out
15:52
Speaker 1: of the house. And people asked me, I'm going somewhere
15:55
Speaker 1: with this. People asked me all the time, I thought
15:58
Speaker 1: you were like talking to someone phone. People asked me,
16:01
Speaker 1: you know it was that hard when they when they
16:03
Speaker 1: moved out, and I said, it's just this natural, something
16:06
Speaker 1: natural happens. It's time, it's their time to to move on.
16:10
Speaker 1: And Uh, the experience that I've had where I'm close
16:14
Speaker 1: with somebody who's who's going through cancer, um, who passed away.
16:18
Speaker 1: There there seems to come a time where there is
16:21
Speaker 1: there's nature I think can take over. And I don't
16:25
Speaker 1: know if the word is resignation, but that's maybe the
16:28
Speaker 1: closest thing that you know, that that I can come
16:31
Speaker 1: up with um, but that they do accept it. And
16:35
Speaker 1: and you know, there's sort of a natural thing. I'm
16:37
Speaker 1: sure that some people, you know, I guess we all
16:39
Speaker 1: would experience it in a different in a different way.
16:42
Speaker 1: I did an interview with Reese when he was getting
16:45
Speaker 1: pretty sick, and and he said one of the most
16:48
Speaker 1: surprising things about his experience of having cancer was just
16:53
Speaker 1: how shocked everyone was, Oh my god, and he and
16:57
Speaker 1: he said, it's you know, death and and you know,
17:00
Speaker 1: whether it's cancer, getting hit by a bus, whatever, that's
17:03
Speaker 1: the one thing we're all assured of. And so he said,
17:06
Speaker 1: you know, the more you think about it, the more
17:08
Speaker 1: you just sort of come to terms with it, and
17:10
Speaker 1: you have there's a comfort there in the fact that well,
17:13
Speaker 1: it's just my turn. Everybody has to experience it. And
17:17
Speaker 1: I guess that's sort of the natural sort of thing
17:19
Speaker 1: that I think it's when I picture it. Yeah, the
17:23
Speaker 1: thing I pictured, the only thing I pictured, if I imagine,
17:26
Speaker 1: and imagining it happened to you is very gross approximation
17:30
Speaker 1: to it happened to you. When I imagine it happening,
17:32
Speaker 1: I imagine. The only thing that I would really care
17:35
Speaker 1: that much about is, uh, the anxiousness about not being
17:43
Speaker 1: able to like, not being able to see what was
17:46
Speaker 1: going to happen to your kids. Yeah, and that that
17:49
Speaker 1: was a question mark. The question mark. Yeah, I'd be like,
17:51
Speaker 1: you know what, if you can just tell me, if
17:54
Speaker 1: I can just watch a video clip of them in
17:57
Speaker 1: twenty years, that sort of sets the cool. Yeah. But
18:02
Speaker 1: until you give me that capability, I will kick and scream. Yeah,
18:05
Speaker 1: that would be the part that would kill me. He
18:07
Speaker 1: certainly talked a lot about the fact that his you know,
18:10
Speaker 1: he he felt like he was letting his family down
18:12
Speaker 1: and to not be there as his kids got older, uh,
18:17
Speaker 1: to have an influence on him, the type of influence
18:19
Speaker 1: that he wanted to have as a dad. Um. I
18:23
Speaker 1: that that that hurt him a lot. Um, But again,
18:27
Speaker 1: you just you know, he set out to create as
18:30
Speaker 1: many memories as he could, and I think a lot
18:32
Speaker 1: of those guys, you know, that that we talked to
18:34
Speaker 1: that UM come to the retreats and UM are in
18:37
Speaker 1: that same space. They're just you know, they're trying to
18:40
Speaker 1: live in the moment. They're trying to create memories. They're
18:42
Speaker 1: trying to be appreciative of the things that they've experienced,
18:46
Speaker 1: and certainly there's a bummer of the things that they
18:48
Speaker 1: haven't yet got to do that they thought they would.
18:52
Speaker 1: And I think we'll all face that. I mean, at
18:54
Speaker 1: one point we'll all go, oh shit, I don't get
18:56
Speaker 1: to go do that thing that I always thought I
18:59
Speaker 1: would get to do. Um. You ever see the movie
19:02
Speaker 1: In My Life Without Me? No, dude got out. Anyways,
19:07
Speaker 1: it's Gal. She gets she's terminally ill, and it's about her.
19:11
Speaker 1: She doesn't want to tell her husband and doesn't want
19:13
Speaker 1: to tell her kids, but she sets about getting their
19:17
Speaker 1: lives squared away. Oh yeah, including finding him a new woman.
19:22
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Nope, nope, nope, nope. That tear me apart.
19:26
Speaker 1: I can't do it. That's a tricky movie. UM. On
19:28
Speaker 1: the comedy. No, So you're involved in this, you want
19:36
Speaker 1: to you want to raise some money for it, and
19:38
Speaker 1: that's how you come up with that's how you start
19:39
Speaker 1: doing parodies, fly fish and parodies. Yeah, we just wanted
19:42
Speaker 1: to win the comedy you know award for the Drake
19:45
Speaker 1: Magazine competition, and we did. What was the reward? Well,
19:51
Speaker 1: now Tom buys the Yeah, he's a guy who runs
19:55
Speaker 1: out and uh, I haven't met him. We've talked on
19:58
Speaker 1: the phone. You never met him. No, I met him, Mom,
20:01
Speaker 1: I met him in Colorado one time. He was nice
20:03
Speaker 1: on the phone. He's smaller than you expect. He doesn't
20:07
Speaker 1: remember me when we met. He probably doesn't want to
20:10
Speaker 1: meet me. I'm a pretty you know, I'm a sizeable,
20:12
Speaker 1: you know, timidating. Yeah, you know. I mean I'm six
20:15
Speaker 1: ft one eight five. Um, I don't look at on video,
20:20
Speaker 1: but I work out, yoga, yogurt, the whole thing. Intimidated
20:23
Speaker 1: by just sitting here. Yeah. Yeah, Well I almost came
20:28
Speaker 1: in a half shirt and I thought about it, but
20:32
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to ruin a good shirt.
20:34
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, what what the hell are we talking about?
20:37
Speaker 1: Did you have so you genuinely like to fish? Though?
20:40
Speaker 1: I do. I love so you harbored somewhere in you? Yeah,
20:44
Speaker 1: you harbored someone in you disdain for yourself. Yeah, I
20:49
Speaker 1: just I took a a an incredibly inept but overly
20:54
Speaker 1: confident character and made him a fishing guide, somebody who
20:58
Speaker 1: knew absolutely nothing and had zero patients. Everything that you
21:02
Speaker 1: need to know and do, and the type of character
21:05
Speaker 1: I believe you need to be to be a good
21:07
Speaker 1: fishing guy. You you need to be somebody that wants
21:09
Speaker 1: to teach, You need to be somebody with knowledge. I mean,
21:11
Speaker 1: these are the things that make a good fishing guide.
21:13
Speaker 1: So I took a very angry, uh impatient person who
21:18
Speaker 1: really had no clue what the hell he was talking about,
21:20
Speaker 1: and made him a fishing guide. I had never fished
21:23
Speaker 1: with a guide in my life. When when we made
21:25
Speaker 1: the first no no, I get that asked a lot.
21:31
Speaker 1: I have people email me all the time trying to
21:33
Speaker 1: hire me as a guide. You've seen the videos. I'm like,
21:39
Speaker 1: I know I should like collect you're a restaurant where
21:43
Speaker 1: there are restaurants staffed by aspiring actors who are hostile. Yeah,
21:52
Speaker 1: I've seen this to the clients. Yeah, I don't know
21:54
Speaker 1: why anybody would want that. So people call you they
21:56
Speaker 1: want to be guided by a parody of an full guide. Yeah,
22:01
Speaker 1: and they want you know, they want the whole experience
22:03
Speaker 1: they want me to yell at them. They want me
22:04
Speaker 1: to get drunk, they want me to fall asleep in
22:06
Speaker 1: a chair, they want me to not tie their fly on,
22:08
Speaker 1: they want everything is the opposite of what you would
22:12
Speaker 1: want out of a guided trip. The anti guide. Yeah,
22:15
Speaker 1: And people are like, how did you make those videos
22:17
Speaker 1: if you've never even fished with a guide? I'm like, well,
22:20
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I don't. It doesn't take that
22:22
Speaker 1: much to figure out what a guide must do and
22:26
Speaker 1: then just do a shitty job. I mean, it's like,
22:29
Speaker 1: what do they do? They tie on flies and they
22:31
Speaker 1: tell you where to cast, and they make you a sandwich,
22:34
Speaker 1: and all you have to do is be really bad
22:36
Speaker 1: at that. And I was, But as as someone who
22:39
Speaker 1: has who guided for a lot of years and hung
22:41
Speaker 1: out with a lot of guides, yeah, your approximation be
22:44
Speaker 1: it over the top is actually not that far off
22:48
Speaker 1: some of the angry terrible guides who I've worked with
22:51
Speaker 1: and run trips, because it's exactly like you kind of.
22:54
Speaker 1: I can see why people ask that question, because I
22:57
Speaker 1: personally assumed that you had been connected to guiding culture
23:00
Speaker 1: and had some experience with it. Would get a hold
23:03
Speaker 1: of me and say that they loved it, just because
23:06
Speaker 1: finally somebody got to say and do all the things
23:09
Speaker 1: that they've wanted to say and do for like twenty years.
23:12
Speaker 1: You got to behave towards clients, And I thought you
23:16
Speaker 1: should get a new job. If this is how you
23:19
Speaker 1: want to treat people, if this is what your job
23:22
Speaker 1: makes you feel like, you should probably like go be
23:25
Speaker 1: a banker or an accountant or something, because that's that's terrible.
23:29
Speaker 1: But then then I've gone out the probably yeah, I know,
23:33
Speaker 1: they don't. The problem is though, that you then go
23:36
Speaker 1: out with guides who have clients with them, and you
23:39
Speaker 1: realize it's all the client's fault. It's typically the client's
23:42
Speaker 1: fault there to blame. And I'm on the guide side.
23:48
Speaker 1: The general public is they're horrible. They can't I mean,
23:51
Speaker 1: the general public can't be trusted to be seated and
23:54
Speaker 1: at Applebee's an order confidently let alone go out on
23:58
Speaker 1: a drift boat. Have never cast a fly line in
24:01
Speaker 1: their lives and expect them to act like nice or
24:06
Speaker 1: well or anything. So I don't if you had to rate, uh,
24:11
Speaker 1: do an honest job with this, If you had to
24:14
Speaker 1: rate yourself on a sliding scale of one, to ten
24:18
Speaker 1: as an angler, where would you put yourself six? You're six. Yeah,
24:24
Speaker 1: that's a good answer because you can't really say much
24:26
Speaker 1: higher that because you look bad. Said a nine, I'd
24:30
Speaker 1: be like, come on, well, I'll say this. I would
24:34
Speaker 1: maybe rate myself higher if we include sort of everybody
24:40
Speaker 1: the fly fishing, right, I mean, because there are a
24:45
Speaker 1: lot of general public. I mean I'm talking about the
24:50
Speaker 1: guys that everyone who everybody that Yeah, well you have
24:55
Speaker 1: the guys that go out twice a year with a
24:58
Speaker 1: guide and they've got, you know, ten thousand dollars worth
25:02
Speaker 1: of equipment, and they're going to drop all the money
25:04
Speaker 1: in the world on this guide, and they're gonna fly
25:06
Speaker 1: in and they're going to expect to be put on fish,
25:09
Speaker 1: and they're going to call themselves a fly fisher. And
25:12
Speaker 1: they know absolutely nothing about fly fishing. They learned just
25:16
Speaker 1: enough to where they can kind of cast a little bit,
25:19
Speaker 1: and the guide knows because he wants a good tip
25:21
Speaker 1: of you know, sort of where the easiest fish to
25:24
Speaker 1: catch our for this guy's inability to cast and get
25:27
Speaker 1: a good drift. And so these guys are you know,
25:29
Speaker 1: probably at a two. And so if we mix all
25:32
Speaker 1: of them in I'm a six and a half all
25:36
Speaker 1: day long. Yeah. Yeah, but if we're talking about like
25:39
Speaker 1: really good anglers, we're talking about April Bokey earlier, like
25:43
Speaker 1: if she's at ten, then I'm pushing it to call
25:46
Speaker 1: myself a six. Yeah, I'm with you, Steve. I want
25:50
Speaker 1: to know where would you rate yourself? Yeah, as an angler,
25:55
Speaker 1: but I'm involved the two kinds of angland. No, no, no, no,
25:58
Speaker 1: Well can we just say fly fishing or are we
26:03
Speaker 1: just talking about angling? Because if we're talking about angling
26:07
Speaker 1: as a whole bass gear, the whole thing, and I'm
26:10
Speaker 1: definitely a three as a generalist. Yeah, I'm not gonna
26:14
Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable rating myself as a generalist angler. I'll
26:17
Speaker 1: just do the one. I'll just do like he did. Six. Yeah,
26:20
Speaker 1: because you don't look like slightly better than average. Yeah,
26:23
Speaker 1: you don't look cocky, you don't look like you're under
26:25
Speaker 1: you don't like you're trying to be like false false.
26:28
Speaker 1: The bar is lower for the generalist angler or guys,
26:32
Speaker 1: higher for the general's angle. Yeah, I'm with Steve on this.
26:34
Speaker 1: You got to know general everything, right, but so that
26:38
Speaker 1: so that the general bar that you would have to
26:40
Speaker 1: be better than it's probably lower because I don't think
26:41
Speaker 1: there are out there that actually are that great of
26:46
Speaker 1: generalist anglers. As there's a lot of guys that can
26:49
Speaker 1: just crush it out here on the Yellowstone and you
26:51
Speaker 1: go ask them to go catch a catfish in the
26:53
Speaker 1: nearest reservoir, I wouldn't know where to start, Okay, so
26:56
Speaker 1: they put it. But you know what I mean, No,
27:00
Speaker 1: I know exactly me because when I think of a
27:01
Speaker 1: generalist angler, um like, for instance, uh, offshore right, no clue,
27:10
Speaker 1: I have no clue. Uh, I know what you're saying.
27:15
Speaker 1: Like the guy that just can go to the same
27:17
Speaker 1: stretch of river when it's good and just catch a
27:18
Speaker 1: bunch of fish. I'm never interesting that guy or that
27:21
Speaker 1: knows how to fish some lake real well for some
27:23
Speaker 1: specific thing like that's great, I'm glad for you, like
27:25
Speaker 1: I hope you have a good time. But in talking
27:27
Speaker 1: about like, is that where I would aspire to be
27:31
Speaker 1: as a fisherman. As a fisherman in my in my mind,
27:34
Speaker 1: if someone asked me like to articulate what is a
27:36
Speaker 1: great fisherman, in my mind, it would be someone who
27:39
Speaker 1: can just no matter where you put them. And there
27:42
Speaker 1: are guys like this. No matter where you put them,
27:44
Speaker 1: they're gonna catch fish. Right. They just understand fish. They
27:47
Speaker 1: can figure anything out. You can send them to a
27:49
Speaker 1: state they've never been to the river, they've never been
27:52
Speaker 1: to fish they've never seen before, and at the end
27:55
Speaker 1: of the day, they're catching fish that in my mind, that,
27:58
Speaker 1: in my mind is a great angler. I'm a seven.
28:02
Speaker 1: I already thought I thought. I'm sitting here listening, I'm
28:06
Speaker 1: thinking I could. I could probably catch that catfish offshore.
28:09
Speaker 1: Not a problem. I'm I'm a seven and a half. Easy.
28:12
Speaker 1: The more the more you talk, the better I get.
28:14
Speaker 1: Can you tie a Baminy twist? Yeah? Oh yeah, sure, yeah.
28:19
Speaker 1: If we had the baminy materials here right now, I'd
28:22
Speaker 1: do it, do it right now. Let me ask you this, Yeah,
28:26
Speaker 1: I sense do you You don't fish, You haven't fished
28:30
Speaker 1: with guides. You feel, but you have a little bit
28:33
Speaker 1: of h you feel. It's not as it's it's not
28:37
Speaker 1: as like if you're gonna make a fishing purity scale, Yeah,
28:42
Speaker 1: what should be an interesting exercise. You're gonna make a
28:44
Speaker 1: fishing purity scale. I'm gonna get in trouble here, is gonnaasy, No,
28:49
Speaker 1: I I don't. I think that's that's a very subjective
28:52
Speaker 1: area to go. But let's let's let's move on. Let's
28:53
Speaker 1: se where this going. I didn't say, like if the
28:56
Speaker 1: universe were to come up with you were fair enough?
28:59
Speaker 1: Yeah you me, you, Miles, settle Down, Hank Travis, Yeah, Sam?
29:04
Speaker 1: Have you guided a little bit? Not like professionally full
29:09
Speaker 1: time but under the table? No? No, No. The question
29:13
Speaker 1: wasn't so you taught? Somebody had a fish? Have you guided?
29:17
Speaker 1: Did at the end of this I paid to teach people? Okay,
29:22
Speaker 1: well what did you get a tip? Yeah? You guided?
29:26
Speaker 1: Did you get drunk while you did it? Yeah? If
29:28
Speaker 1: you're gonna make depending on which time, if you were
29:32
Speaker 1: going to make a fish purity scale, right, I sense
29:37
Speaker 1: that you would have major deductions for guided expedition. No, no, no, no, no,
29:43
Speaker 1: So okay, let's back up, which is cool with me.
29:46
Speaker 1: I don't care, no, no, I'm just talking about a
29:48
Speaker 1: specific breed of human being that considers themselves at ten
29:56
Speaker 1: because they go out twice a year and have somebody
30:00
Speaker 1: show them exactly what that doesn't go and figure it out.
30:04
Speaker 1: That can only figure it out if somebody else figures
30:06
Speaker 1: it out for them. Holds their hand and does it.
30:09
Speaker 1: People ask me all the time, it's like, how, what's
30:11
Speaker 1: the best way to get into fly fishing? Hire a guide.
30:14
Speaker 1: Don't have your spouse teach, you don't have your girlfriend teach,
30:17
Speaker 1: you don't have hire a guide. Go out, hire a guide,
30:20
Speaker 1: take some classes. This is how, because your girlfriend's gonna
30:22
Speaker 1: yell at you. Well. Yeah, And if you're anything like me,
30:25
Speaker 1: it's like if if my daughters wanted to learn to
30:28
Speaker 1: fly fish, and they don't, but if they did, I know,
30:32
Speaker 1: can you hold that thought for a minute. Yeah, I
30:34
Speaker 1: gotta really come back to that. Yeah, yeah, hold that thought, John, Yeah,
30:38
Speaker 1: come back. They do not fish. They have like zero interest.
30:42
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. I'm real disappointed in your girls.
30:45
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I I and I am. I don't tell
30:48
Speaker 1: them every single day. And and that's it goes back
30:51
Speaker 1: to me talking about you know, were you disappointed when
30:54
Speaker 1: they moved out? Hell? No, they don't fish. They're on
30:59
Speaker 1: their own. I've cut them loose. They're not you know,
31:01
Speaker 1: getting their college paid for nothing. It's all. They're cut
31:04
Speaker 1: off until they learn how to fish. When they want
31:08
Speaker 1: to learn how to fish, they're gonna need to hire
31:10
Speaker 1: a guide. It's the same thing as like, why wouldn't
31:15
Speaker 1: you teach them how to fish? I'm like, I didn't
31:17
Speaker 1: teach them how to drive because I don't want a
31:21
Speaker 1: situation where I want to punch one of my daughters.
31:23
Speaker 1: That's why I don't want to teach them how to fish.
31:25
Speaker 1: That you shouldn't teach your children how to fish. Have
31:27
Speaker 1: somebody else teach them, have them get them to a
31:29
Speaker 1: certain point where you can actually go out and have
31:32
Speaker 1: a good time. Driving is the same sort of thing.
31:35
Speaker 1: So I never I never taught them. If if people
31:38
Speaker 1: want to learn how to fly fish, hire a guide,
31:39
Speaker 1: and if you're going to go to New Water, you
31:42
Speaker 1: could not spend better money than to hire a guide.
31:46
Speaker 1: If you're gonna go fish the Blackfoot. I'm not I'm
31:50
Speaker 1: not declaring legit giving advice right now. My advice is
31:54
Speaker 1: if you're going to go fish, like some rivers like,
31:56
Speaker 1: say you're gonna go and fish the Blackfoot or the
31:58
Speaker 1: clark Fork or the yellow don't whatever, and you're gonna
32:01
Speaker 1: be there for five days, money well spent on day one,
32:05
Speaker 1: have a guide, get all the information you can out
32:08
Speaker 1: of that guide, and then if you want to go
32:10
Speaker 1: it alone from there then go it alone. But do
32:13
Speaker 1: you feel like a real h Do you feel like
32:15
Speaker 1: a real prick the next day when you're standing there
32:20
Speaker 1: and there he is with today's client and you're standing
32:22
Speaker 1: there angling away? What? Yeah, what is the etiquette there?
32:27
Speaker 1: Shouldn't go to a spot that's not true because you
32:30
Speaker 1: paid him once there's an exchange of money. Well, yeah,
32:34
Speaker 1: I mean I understand, I've heard you made that, make
32:36
Speaker 1: that point before, never made that point before. I'm going
32:39
Speaker 1: back to the spot. I gotta hear this because if
32:42
Speaker 1: I'm going back, I mean, it depends. We discussed it, sorry,
32:46
Speaker 1: when we discussed it over outfitting hunters in the same
32:52
Speaker 1: ethical conundrum. Okay, what did I say that time? Same
32:56
Speaker 1: thing I'm saying now, Yeah, that's consistency. I'm on your side,
33:00
Speaker 1: by the way for this thing, because I think, I think,
33:04
Speaker 1: I think, I think, man to man, it's like if
33:05
Speaker 1: if yeah, I mean I think that that would be
33:09
Speaker 1: kind of a betrayal of the guide's trust to be
33:11
Speaker 1: in in his hole the next day. I mean, if
33:14
Speaker 1: he if he saw you there, he's probably gonna be like,
33:16
Speaker 1: oh man, come on, really, here's the thing though. I mean,
33:19
Speaker 1: you're gonna hopefully if you hired a guide, you're gonna
33:21
Speaker 1: not fish a hole, You're gonna fish a stretch of water,
33:24
Speaker 1: and you you should certainly go back to that stretch
33:26
Speaker 1: water with the knowledge that you now paid to have. Now,
33:30
Speaker 1: now that being said situation, because there is a significant
33:37
Speaker 1: issue with offshore guides and flats Guides with clients who
33:42
Speaker 1: pay them for a day, go out and have a
33:45
Speaker 1: GPS in their pocket hidden marking way points on all
33:49
Speaker 1: the spots that they fish, so they can then go
33:51
Speaker 1: and hit those spots subsequently with their buddies. And this
33:55
Speaker 1: is this is not just frowned upon. This is like
33:58
Speaker 1: fighting behavior people. People have had boats set a light
34:03
Speaker 1: over this kind of like this is some Tom mcgwain
34:05
Speaker 1: type type ship that happens over this. Well, this is
34:12
Speaker 1: new topic for me. It gets I'm just throwing this
34:17
Speaker 1: out there. I wouldn't do it personally. I wouldn't like
34:21
Speaker 1: the way it made me feel. But let's say I
34:23
Speaker 1: was commander of the universe. Okay, I'm command of the universe.
34:27
Speaker 1: I'm listening and and I uh and and and the
34:32
Speaker 1: only punishment I give out is execution anything anyone guilty
34:37
Speaker 1: of any infraction. It's execution and you come to me
34:41
Speaker 1: and a guide's like, I say, a confession and he
34:43
Speaker 1: paid me a bunch of money and the next day, uh,
34:47
Speaker 1: he went to the spot. I would have a hard
34:50
Speaker 1: time executing that person. Now, if you said, is it
34:56
Speaker 1: a killable offense? No, probably not. Well that's all all right, yeah,
35:00
Speaker 1: I mean, if that's if that's our borrow like off
35:03
Speaker 1: with his head or as you were when when you
35:07
Speaker 1: were when you're commander Steve works. When you're taking the
35:11
Speaker 1: client out, I mean, how clear have you been? Have
35:15
Speaker 1: you educated them on the fact that, hey, look, I'm
35:18
Speaker 1: going to take you to some spots that I don't
35:21
Speaker 1: want you to come back to on your own without me.
35:24
Speaker 1: Are you asking me like my own personal history? If
35:29
Speaker 1: a guide were to say that to me and say, hey,
35:31
Speaker 1: look we're gonna go down this, you know, and I
35:32
Speaker 1: would appreciate that you don't come back here. Now, I
35:36
Speaker 1: think if flats and there's there's just different scenarios. It
35:39
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who cares how deep the water is. Yeah,
35:42
Speaker 1: I don't know, because if you start, if you like
35:47
Speaker 1: water being shallow, water off limits, but that deep all ahead.
35:52
Speaker 1: But look, if you floated a section of the Yellowstone.
35:56
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all fair game at that point because
35:58
Speaker 1: you've floated whatever six to ten miles and you pulled
36:02
Speaker 1: over in a dozen different holes. Like nobody can say
36:05
Speaker 1: anything at that point. But I feel like on a
36:06
Speaker 1: way trip when you might have just fished a hole
36:09
Speaker 1: or two. Oh yeah, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm
36:12
Speaker 1: gonna make this even a little more complicated because the
36:15
Speaker 1: when I float such stretch of water, the way I
36:17
Speaker 1: prefer to do it, rather than just like doing the
36:19
Speaker 1: boat jockey thing and be like no switch sudes, no
36:21
Speaker 1: switch sudes. I like to stop and actually fish holes
36:24
Speaker 1: with clients. So certain clients I have told, Hey, this
36:28
Speaker 1: spot we're coming up to up here, you can get
36:30
Speaker 1: there by foot, you know, if you want to come,
36:33
Speaker 1: do this on your own. Cool. I do ask that
36:35
Speaker 1: you don't bring all your buddies. I have definitely done
36:38
Speaker 1: that in my guide career before. Why don't you guys, uh,
36:43
Speaker 1: why don't you guys come out with some little sheet
36:45
Speaker 1: of paper. Yeah it wouldn't be like enforceable, but just
36:49
Speaker 1: some little sheet of paper that expresses your where you
36:51
Speaker 1: what you feel about. Because I think that you're asking
36:53
Speaker 1: a lot of something like, listen, Okay, I did a
36:57
Speaker 1: I fished with the guide. Recently, we went to St. Martin.
37:00
Speaker 1: I had to go to St. Martin for two days
37:03
Speaker 1: for a birthday party, very special birthday party for a
37:06
Speaker 1: very special friend. M and me and some other dudes
37:09
Speaker 1: that were there wanted to go fish and we hired
37:14
Speaker 1: a guy to go for a half day of fishing. Now,
37:18
Speaker 1: we just kind of wandered around looking yea the half
37:21
Speaker 1: day man, I'm trying to stay married, right, I got you. Now. Uh,
37:26
Speaker 1: we go out and just walk the shore looking first off,
37:29
Speaker 1: working bait and cast and I was one thing. I
37:32
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, I had no idea was this. It's
37:35
Speaker 1: this easy that could have done in your mind in
37:42
Speaker 1: your mind. Does that then mean that I should refrain
37:47
Speaker 1: from fishing because he introduced me to the idea of
37:53
Speaker 1: walking down the beach looking for bait. Yeah, but he
37:55
Speaker 1: he selected that particular shoreline and if you were back
37:59
Speaker 1: there at the next he might have other clients there.
38:01
Speaker 1: And if you were on the beach in front of him,
38:04
Speaker 1: I feel like that affects his ability to do his
38:08
Speaker 1: job with the next group of clients would be very awkward.
38:10
Speaker 1: But where whereas the yellow stone floating as a stretch,
38:13
Speaker 1: and you're not really getting in anybody's way because there's
38:15
Speaker 1: gonna be lots of other people there, but that particular
38:18
Speaker 1: shoreline he probably walked it because it's good, and he
38:19
Speaker 1: probably takes people there pretty regularly. I'm gonna I'm gonna
38:23
Speaker 1: throw this out in a different way because here's what
38:24
Speaker 1: I if. It's not that I've gotten to do this
38:26
Speaker 1: very often, but the few times that I have gone
38:29
Speaker 1: somewhere like your suggesting, Travis, and like I'm a fish
38:32
Speaker 1: here for a few days, I'm going to hire a guide.
38:34
Speaker 1: For the first day, I will have an explicit conversation say, hey, listen,
38:37
Speaker 1: I'm here for X number of days. I'm hoping to
38:40
Speaker 1: fish throughout those days. Is the only day that I'm
38:42
Speaker 1: going to be guided. So one, I'd love to have
38:45
Speaker 1: a good time and learn something about your fishery. And two,
38:47
Speaker 1: could you please give me some suggestions on places I
38:51
Speaker 1: might go fishing? Done that too, and also in doing
38:56
Speaker 1: your idea which I love throw out there. I'll never
39:00
Speaker 1: come back here. I'll never be back again. Like chances are, yeah,
39:04
Speaker 1: my wife's the home. She's sick, she's got sick from
39:07
Speaker 1: the water. I'm not coming back here. I'll never be
39:09
Speaker 1: back to start your day like that. I just want
39:13
Speaker 1: to start by saying, you will never see me again.
39:16
Speaker 1: This is the last time you're ever gonna see me.
39:20
Speaker 1: Unless you stumble upon me fishing this water, you're gonna
39:24
Speaker 1: see me at that point. HAYK Patterson's take on this
39:29
Speaker 1: entire thing, if I could just jump into that, would
39:31
Speaker 1: be that you're going to sign that piece of paper
39:34
Speaker 1: and it's in perpetuity, and now I'm gonna take you.
39:38
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you a stretch of water, right and
39:40
Speaker 1: now every time you fish that stretch of water, you
39:43
Speaker 1: don't have to pay the full price, but you are
39:46
Speaker 1: going to pay me fifty dollars in perpetuity. And this
39:50
Speaker 1: is gonna go for the rest of your life. So
39:52
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. And by the way,
39:55
Speaker 1: every single fly that I put on your line that
39:57
Speaker 1: works is now a dollar. It's a dollar to me
40:01
Speaker 1: every time you buy that flock. So if I tie
40:05
Speaker 1: on a Royal Wolf, every time you buy a Royal
40:08
Speaker 1: Wolf at whatever fly shop across the country, you now
40:11
Speaker 1: owe me a dollar for having introduced you to that
40:14
Speaker 1: specific fly. And I think that takes care of the
40:17
Speaker 1: problem right there, because now eventually just kick on commissions exactly. Yeah, yeah,
40:23
Speaker 1: you're so all those flats guys and everything, and I
40:28
Speaker 1: have not gone out and then fished with them, but
40:30
Speaker 1: I've word on the street is they're all piste off.
40:33
Speaker 1: And so now these guys, you know, you do it
40:35
Speaker 1: for like three years, you take out enough people and
40:38
Speaker 1: you get, you know, a legal document signed where in perpetuity,
40:41
Speaker 1: if they ever want to fish in the state of
40:45
Speaker 1: Florida again within a hundred yards or a hundred miles
40:49
Speaker 1: of where you took help, if they want to fish
40:52
Speaker 1: that side of Florida ever, again, it's a hundred dollars
40:57
Speaker 1: to you. And I think you get the states involved,
40:59
Speaker 1: and I I think this is an enforceable thing. And
41:03
Speaker 1: then if you don't want to sign that paper, then
41:06
Speaker 1: you know you then it's a fifteen thousand dollar day
41:09
Speaker 1: rate or good luck. Yeah, I mean, do you want
41:16
Speaker 1: to catch fish? Sign the document? What's your take on
41:19
Speaker 1: because I think one of the funniest pieces of years
41:24
Speaker 1: is it's funny. I had always liked this but didn't
41:27
Speaker 1: even put it together because I liked it a long
41:29
Speaker 1: time ago, and then I started watching all this stuff
41:31
Speaker 1: you do, and I was like, oh my god, that's
41:33
Speaker 1: the guy who did the UM. The two dudes on
41:37
Speaker 1: the bank who are trying to find out they're very
41:41
Speaker 1: they're they're confused by catching release. Yea, that is by
41:44
Speaker 1: far the most popular video I ever made. It's not
41:48
Speaker 1: even close, and it was very unexpected. Remember I do remember, no,
41:54
Speaker 1: I don't, it's Hank in the bait Fishers, and so
41:57
Speaker 1: they're it's probably like a fifteen I don't. It's probably
42:02
Speaker 1: ten or twelve minutes. All my videos are longer than
42:05
Speaker 1: they say they should be. UM. But I at the
42:08
Speaker 1: beginning of that episode, I'm talking. I'm asking the guys
42:12
Speaker 1: why they're here, why are you here? And one of
42:14
Speaker 1: them says, I guess I've always been a little fly curious.
42:19
Speaker 1: And when I wrote that, and every episode I always
42:21
Speaker 1: try to write, like what are people going to quote
42:23
Speaker 1: back at me? And I thought, this fly curious thing
42:26
Speaker 1: is going to be gold, and I mean it was.
42:29
Speaker 1: But then it goes into the catching me Hank explaining
42:32
Speaker 1: the process of catching release and he's like so and
42:34
Speaker 1: then you release it into a cooler no, back into
42:37
Speaker 1: the water, and then they start talking about like, well
42:40
Speaker 1: if you're not going to catch them to eat them.
42:42
Speaker 1: Aren't you just torturing fish? Which is a you know,
42:45
Speaker 1: pretty solid question. Really before what happened was somebody went
42:49
Speaker 1: to YouTube and they grabbed that part of my video.
42:53
Speaker 1: They took the rest of it out, and it got
42:56
Speaker 1: like forty million views. And I'm like, also that you
43:00
Speaker 1: you're explaining, Hank Patters is explaining if you let him go,
43:05
Speaker 1: then someone can catch them again. Yeah. And you guys like, oh,
43:08
Speaker 1: so you're fattening them up. Yeah, we're just trying to
43:13
Speaker 1: wrap their heads around. Okay, so you let them go
43:15
Speaker 1: to fatten them up so that then you can keep
43:18
Speaker 1: them at a later date. Okay, shrewd. Shrewd sounds like
43:22
Speaker 1: the conversation we have around this office a lot. Yeah,
43:25
Speaker 1: it's uh. Well, and then that one then I had
43:28
Speaker 1: the same group of guys out, uh, and we did
43:31
Speaker 1: a follow up, like and I think my imagination went wild,
43:34
Speaker 1: and I named it Hanking the bait Fishers Part two. Uh.
43:37
Speaker 1: And in this one, I'm explaining what is a fly?
43:41
Speaker 1: Because you've got the square of me worm and you've
43:44
Speaker 1: got I mean streamers, and you've that that that one
43:50
Speaker 1: raises some really interesting points it really it's it's a
43:52
Speaker 1: great question because when you're finishing with a rappola, it
43:56
Speaker 1: has a feather on it, so it's a fly route,
43:58
Speaker 1: so that's a fly? Or makes it a fly? When
44:01
Speaker 1: it's not a fly? What does make it a fly?
44:03
Speaker 1: Do you guys know? I have no idea. This is
44:05
Speaker 1: a longstanding shift. I call this a perfect example of
44:08
Speaker 1: a shifting baseline. Like if you think about the concept
44:11
Speaker 1: of the shifting the baseline of what counts as fly
44:14
Speaker 1: fishing or a fly you can go way back. You know,
44:18
Speaker 1: if you want to go several hundred years back into England,
44:21
Speaker 1: it wouldn't count. Some people would say, well, if you're
44:24
Speaker 1: not fishing downstream, it's not fly fishing. Those guys who
44:29
Speaker 1: go who cast upstream, they're not fly fisherman, they're not
44:33
Speaker 1: of our stature. Okay, I want to really, I want
44:37
Speaker 1: to really explore this, but I don't understand. I feel
44:41
Speaker 1: I feel like I could understand anything you say about this,
44:44
Speaker 1: but I don't understand that one. So there there too,
44:46
Speaker 1: they think you should be like, you can't cast up No, literally,
44:50
Speaker 1: you cannot cast upstream, like even above parallel with yourself.
44:54
Speaker 1: In certain styles of traditional fly fish, and there are
44:58
Speaker 1: streams where that's codified like it is all you will
45:02
Speaker 1: get rolling off the stream if you cast up river.
45:06
Speaker 1: Give me the perspective, Um, I want you to role play.
45:12
Speaker 1: Role play, that's gonna be good. You give me the
45:14
Speaker 1: perspective of the guy. Yeah, with an English or Scottish accent.
45:19
Speaker 1: That's not gonna work. The guy doesn't think you should
45:23
Speaker 1: cast kind of upstream British accent, right right, right, Well,
45:30
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna do that. Um. I think
45:33
Speaker 1: the issue always when I have to do one, I
45:35
Speaker 1: always go to things I learned from Pink Floyd album.
45:38
Speaker 1: Every time you go to you with whatever brick in
45:42
Speaker 1: the wall part three. If you don't, um, I cannot.
45:48
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna blow this because I really don't
45:50
Speaker 1: know the exact I don't know your question, but I
45:53
Speaker 1: think what it is is that there was a belief
45:55
Speaker 1: that casting upstream was essentially like cheating, because if your
46:00
Speaker 1: fly is just drifting down the current, then you know
46:02
Speaker 1: the fish is just gonna stream. That's easy. It's harder
46:05
Speaker 1: to get up above him, but to have to cast
46:08
Speaker 1: across and and swing your fly in front of the
46:11
Speaker 1: fish and get him eat now that requires real skill
46:14
Speaker 1: and angling prowess. Okay, I'll buy that. So again, I
46:18
Speaker 1: will not buy that, because there's anytime I want to
46:23
Speaker 1: get a guy out that has never fly fished, the
46:25
Speaker 1: first thing I do is I find a rising fish.
46:27
Speaker 1: I put him upstream of it so he can just
46:30
Speaker 1: like basically pull out some line, doesn't cast it, just
46:33
Speaker 1: chuck it in there, down struck it and float it
46:35
Speaker 1: down to him. I'm not saying this theory is right.
46:38
Speaker 1: I'm just that's that's it. I hadn't even thought of that.
46:42
Speaker 1: I feel like if you said to me, you can
46:45
Speaker 1: spend your whole life casting upstream or downstream, and your
46:50
Speaker 1: goal in life is to catch as many fish as possible,
46:53
Speaker 1: I would pick downstream. I would too, Yeah, me too,
46:57
Speaker 1: no question. So I could see having a river. What
47:00
Speaker 1: a snooty English guy who says you can only cast them?
47:05
Speaker 1: Oh they do? Yep, there are that argument out to me.
47:08
Speaker 1: I think you just did, right, I mean, but like
47:10
Speaker 1: they're the point being that there are these these totally
47:14
Speaker 1: arbitrary divisions that have been created within and it's I mean,
47:17
Speaker 1: I think fly fishing is particularly guilty of this, and
47:20
Speaker 1: it's part of why it's so much fun to make
47:21
Speaker 1: fun of it. I think this is what puts the
47:23
Speaker 1: joy in it, these arguments, That's that's what puts all
47:28
Speaker 1: the joy and going out fly fishing, just having somebody
47:30
Speaker 1: tell you what you're doing wrong, wrong, But I mean
47:32
Speaker 1: were wrong, you're casting it wrong, now wrong, draft downstream.
47:40
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, not a fly, that's what we're talking about.
47:42
Speaker 1: Tell me what a fly is? Yeah, I mean here,
47:45
Speaker 1: here's here's what. I don't want to see one. I
47:47
Speaker 1: don't want to see one, but I can't if I
47:49
Speaker 1: had to write, like if the folks over at Webster's
47:52
Speaker 1: or Miriam's said like, hey, we're trying to find someone
47:55
Speaker 1: to craft the definition of a fly, um and we
47:59
Speaker 1: were we're tasking you with the chore, I would have
48:02
Speaker 1: a very difficult time. I've come to the conclusion I
48:05
Speaker 1: don't want to see it any any artificial thing that
48:10
Speaker 1: you use with a fly rod. That's just what I've
48:13
Speaker 1: come to. But it's real feathers. But well you have
48:16
Speaker 1: to have a feather. Well I'm not always but fly
48:18
Speaker 1: fishing could be a bead, you know. Fly fishing could
48:21
Speaker 1: be the squirmy wormy. Fly fishing could be a mop fly.
48:25
Speaker 1: They're now going to home depot buying mops, lopping a
48:28
Speaker 1: chunk of that off, tying it on a hook, and
48:30
Speaker 1: this is now a fly and that's meant to replicate
48:32
Speaker 1: rotten flesh. I don't know what it do? You know
48:34
Speaker 1: what that reply? Like a maggot or something like that,
48:36
Speaker 1: and why are you fishing in maggoty water? It really
48:39
Speaker 1: brings that Looking at me on this, I actually I'm
48:44
Speaker 1: looking at you because I'm like, it's going down to
48:48
Speaker 1: the home depot and pulling this crap out right. I mean,
48:50
Speaker 1: you were a fishing guide, right for many many years,
48:53
Speaker 1: so you would not have been too proud to tie
48:56
Speaker 1: a mop and bober on a guy's line. God no,
48:58
Speaker 1: I just have an anything that credit card his pocket.
49:03
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it would be that
49:06
Speaker 1: I'm doing your guys job for you. Wouldn't it be like, uh,
49:10
Speaker 1: whatever hooked device or whatever that is delivered not by
49:16
Speaker 1: its own weight, what was delivered by the weight of
49:18
Speaker 1: the line. I think, I think that that gets at it.
49:23
Speaker 1: But then you know, there's another situation and I'll make
49:26
Speaker 1: a plug for content on the Mediator website because we
49:29
Speaker 1: were just we're just about to publish a piece from
49:31
Speaker 1: our own Brodie Henderson discussing this this very thing and
49:35
Speaker 1: um and one he brought in was a buddy of
49:39
Speaker 1: his who is not a good fisherman, went down to
49:42
Speaker 1: the name, didn't didn't name him by name, went down
49:52
Speaker 1: to the Florida Keys and caught a couple of permit
49:54
Speaker 1: and a couple of bone fish in a place that's
49:55
Speaker 1: known for being extremely difficult to catch either those species.
50:00
Speaker 1: They found out later the guide had been soaking the
50:02
Speaker 1: fly in ground up crab and clam juice and shrimp
50:08
Speaker 1: and and so that feels like a departure, but you
50:13
Speaker 1: know it's still delivered through the mechanism of a of
50:16
Speaker 1: the weighted line and a light fly. But is that
50:20
Speaker 1: fly fishing? And it might might even be a fly
50:22
Speaker 1: with feathers, but that's not exactly what's getting it done
50:25
Speaker 1: in that situation. So you feel, yeah, I don't want
50:28
Speaker 1: to blabor the point here, but uh, you feel that orderless,
50:35
Speaker 1: that olderless would be something that you would throw into
50:39
Speaker 1: the working definition. I'm I'm not I'm not taking a
50:43
Speaker 1: side on it, No, No, I'm just curious. Yeah, I
50:44
Speaker 1: feel like that's a just a choice I would probably
50:48
Speaker 1: not make to do that, But did you cast an
50:51
Speaker 1: odorless fly into a chump slick? Well? And you know,
50:56
Speaker 1: and I went, uh shark mako shark fishing off San
50:59
Speaker 1: Diego one. I'm on a flat quote unquote fly fishing
51:02
Speaker 1: trip and the only cast I made all day was
51:04
Speaker 1: just to feel out a sixteen weight fly rod. But
51:07
Speaker 1: that's all we did is sit there all day looking
51:10
Speaker 1: at chump's leg. But that's like how you raise those
51:13
Speaker 1: makos up to be able to make a four ft
51:15
Speaker 1: cast while it circles the boat trying to eat you. Um,
51:18
Speaker 1: So I mean I've I've done that. I didn't have
51:21
Speaker 1: a problem with it. We didn't end up seeing any
51:23
Speaker 1: MACHOs um, which I really wanted to see one. And
51:26
Speaker 1: I would have that one tire fly that emits noise, Yes,
51:31
Speaker 1: so that's rat well like like a rattle in it. Yeah,
51:36
Speaker 1: but not like video about this. You're comfortable with that,
51:41
Speaker 1: I'm putting you. You're in a little bit of a
51:42
Speaker 1: devil's advocate position. Okay, yeah, I'll play a devil's advocate.
51:46
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable with noise. So you're comfortable deceiving the fish visually,
51:52
Speaker 1: you're comfortable deceiving the fish orally and I don't mean
51:55
Speaker 1: a O R, but a you are using it right, Yeah,
52:02
Speaker 1: how because I only don't want to deceive it or
52:07
Speaker 1: you actually are disgusting. So you're gonna and you're gonna trick,
52:12
Speaker 1: but you're not comfortable deceiving it fatally factoral sense, I'm
52:18
Speaker 1: not comfortable with it. That's where you draw a line.
52:21
Speaker 1: But but but hell, I mean but and and and
52:24
Speaker 1: to echo Browdie's point that I definitely resonated with, is like,
52:27
Speaker 1: at that point, just throwing a shrimp. I don't have
52:30
Speaker 1: a problem with bait fishing. Yeah, I know we're not
52:32
Speaker 1: getting into you think he did something bad, But I'm
52:34
Speaker 1: just saying, like you get into like what your personal
52:37
Speaker 1: terms are. Yeah, I think I think through the fly
52:40
Speaker 1: cast that becomes the far problem. Well, I'm saying with
52:43
Speaker 1: a spin rod. But yeah, I feel I feel like
52:46
Speaker 1: at that point you're not really fly fishing. But because
52:49
Speaker 1: you're not deceiving the fish through the action of the
52:51
Speaker 1: fly itself, they're grabbing it because it smells good. And
52:55
Speaker 1: so I feel like that is a that is a
52:57
Speaker 1: fairly clear departure from what fly fishing is my mind.
53:00
Speaker 1: Give me the Hank Patterson take on this. I'm gonna
53:03
Speaker 1: add ham juice to my floating. I'm going home. I'm
53:08
Speaker 1: adding ham juice to my floating. That's all there is
53:11
Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, I I I don't you know. I mean,
53:14
Speaker 1: Hank would absolutely dip the fly in and he smelly whatever,
53:20
Speaker 1: but he would threaten your life while doing it. He'd
53:23
Speaker 1: be like, I'm gonna dip this in this ham juice,
53:25
Speaker 1: and if you ever say anything at all, I will
53:26
Speaker 1: kill you. I will track you down and I will
53:29
Speaker 1: kill you. I will start with your parents. I will
53:31
Speaker 1: start with your children. You will die. But he would
53:33
Speaker 1: he would do it as long as it was a secret. Yeah,
53:36
Speaker 1: so that guy. So what's so the real crime of
53:39
Speaker 1: what this guy did, as far as dipping is tell anybody.
53:43
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the crime. It sounds like all the
53:46
Speaker 1: makings right he got. I assume he got a picture
53:49
Speaker 1: of himself with the fish, with the fly, and it's
53:52
Speaker 1: that's all you had. And then all somebody snitched, somebody
53:56
Speaker 1: spoke up. This guy let the cat out of the bag.
53:58
Speaker 1: So I'd say I let him fry. Let him fry
54:02
Speaker 1: for not being able to be quiet about it. But
54:03
Speaker 1: I have no problem with him dipping it in ham
54:05
Speaker 1: juice or whatever it was, shrimp juice, but yeah, crab juice.
54:10
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the like central reasons
54:13
Speaker 1: why fly angling gets of well deserved bad rap is
54:18
Speaker 1: arguments just like this. This is my next question. Well,
54:21
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to preempty. I'm I'm gonna continue again like
54:26
Speaker 1: this that do Yeah, I think I think they're probably
54:28
Speaker 1: people listening right now going like Jesus Christ, why who cares?
54:32
Speaker 1: Like what? What? What does any of this matter? And
54:35
Speaker 1: then the truth that I do, Yes, I do. I
54:38
Speaker 1: absolutely think about the topic about what wait what know?
54:43
Speaker 1: The like this concept of purity like it started with
54:46
Speaker 1: this idea of the purity scale, which to me gets
54:48
Speaker 1: at this assumption that there are greater and lesser ways
54:52
Speaker 1: of catching fish. And I think that fly anglers often
54:55
Speaker 1: get pigeonholed as being those guys who judge the way
54:58
Speaker 1: that other people fish as lesser than themselves because maybe
55:02
Speaker 1: their egotistical pricks that's possible, or maybe they've just been
55:06
Speaker 1: conditioned into this culture that that values one thing or another.
55:09
Speaker 1: I personally would and to tie this back to another conversation,
55:13
Speaker 1: I would rather be known as someone who's a good
55:14
Speaker 1: angler than solely an exceptional fly angler. And I think
55:20
Speaker 1: that flying like we have created people who fly fish
55:23
Speaker 1: have created this ethos for themselves that makes them really
55:26
Speaker 1: easy to make fun of and to consider to be,
55:30
Speaker 1: you know, jerks, because they say, well, you caught that
55:32
Speaker 1: on bait, You caught that on a crab soaked flyer,
55:35
Speaker 1: you caught this on something that's not as good as
55:36
Speaker 1: what I did. Who cares. You're going out and fishing,
55:39
Speaker 1: and you're having fun as long as you're respecting the
55:42
Speaker 1: resource and you're staying within the law. Who cares how
55:45
Speaker 1: you caught the fish. Whatever makes you happy is the
55:48
Speaker 1: way you should do it. And and I think that
55:50
Speaker 1: that the whole flaningle community could do better. Just kind
55:52
Speaker 1: of step down and relax a little bit. There can
55:54
Speaker 1: be an appreciation for somebody catching it in a way
55:58
Speaker 1: that does make it more of a cult. Well, start
56:02
Speaker 1: that starts to fall apart. Well, if I'm started to
56:06
Speaker 1: fall afar because I would say, okay, catch it on
56:08
Speaker 1: a bar hook, catch it on a bear hook. If
56:10
Speaker 1: it's all about what makes it hard ton put nothing
56:13
Speaker 1: on there, Yeah, it's extremes. Yeah. Well, and then the
56:21
Speaker 1: argument comes in Did you you caught it on a
56:23
Speaker 1: bear hook? Is it because you're good or you found
56:26
Speaker 1: really stupid fish? They accidentally they accidentally inhaled it. I'll
56:30
Speaker 1: tell you when I used to guy on on the
56:32
Speaker 1: Big Horn early season, one of the dirtiest tricks in
56:36
Speaker 1: the book for those guys would be to take a
56:38
Speaker 1: bear giant, bright red hook and fish that because those
56:43
Speaker 1: fish just attacked it. And among the guy in the
56:45
Speaker 1: community that that was a thing that was looked down
56:47
Speaker 1: about it. Maybe it was a mayby San Juan worm. No,
56:50
Speaker 1: it was huge. It was like it was a big
56:52
Speaker 1: gamagatsu octopus. Hook in red had to be read and
56:56
Speaker 1: it was a dirty, dirty trick. Makes it yeah so much. Again,
57:03
Speaker 1: I'm not saying like among the community of people who
57:06
Speaker 1: were fishing that there wasn't a piec of art attackt
57:08
Speaker 1: to it. Oh yeah, I used to fish it. He's
57:12
Speaker 1: always fishing underneath my bead because then it was still
57:15
Speaker 1: like you're fishing instead of just fishing a bead and
57:17
Speaker 1: a hook. Now you're fishing a bead and a San
57:19
Speaker 1: Juan spaghetti and meatballs. I'd be talking about how long
57:22
Speaker 1: it took me to tie it. Do you tie your
57:27
Speaker 1: own flies. I tied these, the whole box of them
57:30
Speaker 1: last night. It's just nothing greater than catching a fish
57:36
Speaker 1: on a on a fly that you tied, and I
57:38
Speaker 1: tied this one, and it's just raking fish. It's fantastic.
57:42
Speaker 1: But I think this this points the figured how ridiculous
57:45
Speaker 1: the whole thing is. You came up with the most
57:47
Speaker 1: difficult thing to do, like, well, just a bear hook,
57:49
Speaker 1: and there are people within this community who go like, well,
57:51
Speaker 1: that's cheating. That these are the level of ridiculous rules
57:56
Speaker 1: that we have pleased upon ourselves for what like you're
58:00
Speaker 1: not gonna it doesn't matter, like you're not winning a
58:03
Speaker 1: trophy or a prize, which also brings up I got
58:06
Speaker 1: asked the question on a on a thing recently an
58:09
Speaker 1: interview where they were asking me how I felt about
58:12
Speaker 1: fly fishing competitions, expecting me to say, oh my god,
58:16
Speaker 1: that's the most horrible thing I've ever heard, that somebody
58:19
Speaker 1: would have a fly fishing competition until you're taking it
58:23
Speaker 1: and and well, like you go out and and you
58:25
Speaker 1: have like a tournament, you know, fly fishing, like a
58:28
Speaker 1: bass tournament, and bring them you don't bring them back
58:31
Speaker 1: home with you. I don't know. I mean, you probably
58:33
Speaker 1: have to have a judge with you to measure it
58:35
Speaker 1: because it's all about you know, length, and like actual
58:38
Speaker 1: size doesn't matter, right, it's just all about length. As
58:41
Speaker 1: long as it's eighteen inches and a half a pound
58:44
Speaker 1: is better than a four pound seventeen inch fish. Um.
58:47
Speaker 1: But people get really upset about the notion that you
58:51
Speaker 1: would have any sort of a derby or tournament in
58:54
Speaker 1: fly fishing like they would in bass fishing or something
58:56
Speaker 1: like that, right, And the question came to me on
58:58
Speaker 1: how I felt, and I thought, well, I don't. I'm
59:01
Speaker 1: pretty sure I'm not the fun police. I don't care.
59:04
Speaker 1: I mean, if as long as they're respecting the resource,
59:07
Speaker 1: and what do I care? How they go and enjoy
59:10
Speaker 1: their day, and if they want to have a derby
59:12
Speaker 1: or a tournament catching fish and measuring that, it doesn't
59:15
Speaker 1: sound interesting terribly to me, Like I don't want to
59:18
Speaker 1: go do it. I mean, I don't need the disappointment
59:22
Speaker 1: in my life because I'm not gonna win, you know.
59:26
Speaker 1: And it's like I get made fun of enough, I
59:28
Speaker 1: don't need to also go out and prove that I'm
59:30
Speaker 1: not a six, I'm a two. Uh So I wouldn't
59:33
Speaker 1: do it, but he had had somebody else that he
59:35
Speaker 1: had interviewed a couple of weeks prior that was adamantly
59:39
Speaker 1: against it and thought it was absolutely destroying fly fishing
59:44
Speaker 1: in the world of fly fishing, and the history of
59:46
Speaker 1: fly fishing. Was Oh yeah, that it just it just
59:49
Speaker 1: takes everything everything that he thinks flying that he thinks
59:53
Speaker 1: fly fishing should be about. Is I see both sides
59:58
Speaker 1: of that because because I I understand, I understand that perspective,
1:00:02
Speaker 1: and it makes me slightly uncomfortable to see kind of
1:00:04
Speaker 1: the carnival aspect of the carnival atmosphere surrounding bass fishing
1:00:09
Speaker 1: or fly fishing um and where whereas I see those
1:00:14
Speaker 1: those sports as you know, personal time and opportunity to
1:00:18
Speaker 1: hang out with friends and commune with nature. And I
1:00:20
Speaker 1: mean it's very it's deeply spiritual to me. But at
1:00:23
Speaker 1: the same time, I think it's also inherently competitive. Anytime
1:00:26
Speaker 1: you put two guys in a boat, they're trying to
1:00:28
Speaker 1: do better than the other one. So it's just kind
1:00:31
Speaker 1: of a logical extension of that. On the on the
1:00:33
Speaker 1: other hand, well, I'm with you on the fact I
1:00:36
Speaker 1: don't want to do it. It doesn't sound interesting to
1:00:38
Speaker 1: go to the tournament to me, but that's a personal choice.
1:00:42
Speaker 1: And and and you're absolutely right. I mean, you know,
1:00:44
Speaker 1: the biggest lie that I've ever told in fly fishing was, oh, well,
1:00:47
Speaker 1: I'm glad at least one of us caught a fish,
1:00:50
Speaker 1: because I don't care. If I'm out fishing with a friend,
1:00:54
Speaker 1: I don't care if he, you know, caught a fish.
1:00:57
Speaker 1: I want to catch a fish. Him catching and fish
1:00:59
Speaker 1: might make it no, not even my It makes it
1:01:02
Speaker 1: worse that I didn't. If I'm gonna get skunked. If
1:01:05
Speaker 1: I'm not going to catch anything, then I could also
1:01:08
Speaker 1: not to have caught anything. I want to return, and
1:01:10
Speaker 1: I'll admit that I want to return to parody from it.
1:01:13
Speaker 1: But I realized we never we never finished the thing
1:01:17
Speaker 1: about jail and jail miles. I have been in handcuffs
1:01:24
Speaker 1: multiple times, but I've never been booked. So they coughed you. Yea,
1:01:29
Speaker 1: then they let you go. Yeah, they detained you. I
1:01:33
Speaker 1: was detained. I have been detained more than once, but
1:01:35
Speaker 1: I've never been I've been to the station. I've never
1:01:37
Speaker 1: been booked. They change, they keep changing their mind. I
1:01:41
Speaker 1: think the last time it happened. I was sixteen, so
1:01:44
Speaker 1: I think they were just trying to, you know, scare
1:01:46
Speaker 1: me straight. And I may have had a wayward youth,
1:01:50
Speaker 1: and so I had a few run ins with the
1:01:51
Speaker 1: local cops. Never coughed or been in jail. You've been coughed,
1:02:00
Speaker 1: been thrown in jail, You've been in cars rated? Nope,
1:02:02
Speaker 1: no I have not. I'm we were talking about this before.
1:02:05
Speaker 1: I think I'm good at talking talking to cops. I'm
1:02:08
Speaker 1: very polite and deferential, which is what my dad taught me.
1:02:12
Speaker 1: Just apologize a lot, and so that's that's what I
1:02:15
Speaker 1: That's what I do. And I got friends and I
1:02:18
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that I shot that guy in college.
1:02:22
Speaker 1: I got my friends and I out of a lot
1:02:24
Speaker 1: of trouble. When whenever, when whenever cops would show out
1:02:27
Speaker 1: at our house that had three hundred people and it
1:02:31
Speaker 1: and allowed music playing it too in the morning, you
1:02:33
Speaker 1: would have got it ran out of the yard. I was.
1:02:35
Speaker 1: I was the one. I was the designated police liaison.
1:02:40
Speaker 1: I had to spend one night in jail, and my
1:02:43
Speaker 1: goodness that it uh uh. I came out of wanting
1:02:48
Speaker 1: to live a cleaner life. They had its effect. How
1:02:52
Speaker 1: old were you two old enough to know better? A
1:02:58
Speaker 1: little drinking? Yeah, to drinking? Um, yeah, a little drinking.
1:03:04
Speaker 1: I got charged with resisting arrest, which I thought was
1:03:06
Speaker 1: a trumped up charge. That was you didn't it was
1:03:11
Speaker 1: a stretch. When he went to cuff me, it surprised me.
1:03:20
Speaker 1: They cuff me, and it startled me. So I went
1:03:24
Speaker 1: to withdraw. You know, if he had said I'm gonna
1:03:28
Speaker 1: cuff you, now, I would have held out my hands
1:03:31
Speaker 1: like they do in the movie. But but he he STU. Boy,
1:03:38
Speaker 1: did I write a letter of apology? You would? I
1:03:41
Speaker 1: wish I had a copy of the letter of apology
1:03:43
Speaker 1: I wrote to that officer, so that that's where you
1:03:45
Speaker 1: really knew the writing career was gonna pay pay off
1:03:49
Speaker 1: that one. It was heartfelt. You got ahead of gailed
1:03:52
Speaker 1: out and took it away from me. Are you finished
1:03:55
Speaker 1: with your jail story? You just told me he hadn't
1:03:57
Speaker 1: been to jail. I know, I was onto the next thing.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm not okay, that's sorry, I'm asking. I
1:04:03
Speaker 1: thought I thought I had a second to jump in.
1:04:06
Speaker 1: But go ahead, now that I'm through talking about jail.
1:04:09
Speaker 1: If you didn't change the subject, please, Well, I had
1:04:12
Speaker 1: a good opportunity at a segue, but you, uh, you
1:04:15
Speaker 1: stole it by going back to the jail thing. But
1:04:17
Speaker 1: I was thinking that all these arguments that we have
1:04:20
Speaker 1: within the fly fishing um space, is that maybe a
1:04:25
Speaker 1: reason that your daughters don't fish? The argument, the argument,
1:04:31
Speaker 1: everything we just we're discussing the like the purity of
1:04:35
Speaker 1: fly fishing and what makes what's the definition of fly
1:04:37
Speaker 1: fishing and all this stupid stuff that really doesn't matter,
1:04:41
Speaker 1: making it not fun. Is that maybe why your daughters
1:04:44
Speaker 1: don't fish? Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't think so.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: I mean I they just from an early age showed
1:04:51
Speaker 1: well before the argument of what it means to fly
1:04:57
Speaker 1: fish came into play, They just ever showed an interest
1:05:01
Speaker 1: in fly fishing. I say that, and then I no,
1:05:09
Speaker 1: I mean I took him out a couple of times.
1:05:10
Speaker 1: I mean they fished. I mean I took him out.
1:05:12
Speaker 1: How do you the greatest failure like that a person
1:05:18
Speaker 1: could ever experience? Well, I mean we all we all
1:05:20
Speaker 1: have our own path. Uh, you know, there's there's certainly
1:05:25
Speaker 1: it's unfortunate that they don't enjoy fly fishing, but they
1:05:30
Speaker 1: do enjoy, you know, going out outside to like get
1:05:34
Speaker 1: in a car. Yeah, I mean the outside certainly leads
1:05:41
Speaker 1: to yeah, like a restaurant or or them all or
1:05:44
Speaker 1: a friend's house or something like that. Um. How many
1:05:47
Speaker 1: times they trying to call in doorsy? Um? How many
1:05:50
Speaker 1: times did you try? How many times did you take
1:05:52
Speaker 1: them fishing? When when they were growing up? We we
1:05:55
Speaker 1: drug them along? And maybe that's just what I just said,
1:05:58
Speaker 1: we drugged them along. Uh. This was maybe this was
1:06:04
Speaker 1: their way of of, um, you know, going against me
1:06:09
Speaker 1: or you know there will show him we won't learn
1:06:12
Speaker 1: to fish. Um, that was their rebellion was to not
1:06:16
Speaker 1: learn how to fly fish? You know that. Maybe that's it. Uh.
1:06:22
Speaker 1: My oldest daughter is twenty seven and my youngest daughter ise,
1:06:27
Speaker 1: have they been to jail? Well one of them probably
1:06:30
Speaker 1: should should go to jail, uh you know for a
1:06:35
Speaker 1: couple of days, you know, just to sent her on
1:06:37
Speaker 1: a path. Uh. The other one is is probably doesn't
1:06:40
Speaker 1: need jail at this point. She's she's a nurse working
1:06:44
Speaker 1: with dementia or and alzheimer patients. And actually she just
1:06:48
Speaker 1: got a new job. She works with hospice. Uh, so
1:06:52
Speaker 1: she doesn't need to go to jail now. The now
1:06:54
Speaker 1: the other one, you know, and I don't want to,
1:06:57
Speaker 1: you know, call her out, Zoe, but you know, Zoe,
1:07:02
Speaker 1: could you know, maybe like a three year stretch, just
1:07:04
Speaker 1: something to just something to straighten her out, you know,
1:07:07
Speaker 1: kind of get her on the right path the fight there. Well,
1:07:12
Speaker 1: so we've worked with the prison in Boise and uh
1:07:18
Speaker 1: the prisoners Thai flies for the real Recovery retreat in Idaho. Seriously,
1:07:23
Speaker 1: Yeah that's cool. Yeah, and so I could get her
1:07:25
Speaker 1: on that program she was in if she was in
1:07:27
Speaker 1: the joint. So how's that work out? I got a
1:07:31
Speaker 1: phone calls the one of the guys, one of the
1:07:34
Speaker 1: wardens out there, uh like St. Patterson and got in
1:07:38
Speaker 1: touch with me and said, hey, I you know, I'm
1:07:40
Speaker 1: a warden out of the prison. Oh shit, you know?
1:07:43
Speaker 1: Uh are you not her? Yeah, we haven't seen her
1:07:50
Speaker 1: a long time. Um So anyway, he got ahold of
1:07:54
Speaker 1: me and he said, hey, so I I do a thing.
1:07:55
Speaker 1: We we have a program out here. We're in this
1:07:58
Speaker 1: guy fly issues, right, So do you know that this
1:08:01
Speaker 1: was a racket? This guy's this guy wants free flies
1:08:04
Speaker 1: and so no good dude, and and so anyway, so
1:08:07
Speaker 1: he said they had a thing out there and that
1:08:10
Speaker 1: uh as long as it was a not for profit
1:08:13
Speaker 1: organization that they could tie flies and give them to us,
1:08:15
Speaker 1: and and we are so uh yeah, so they every cool.
1:08:19
Speaker 1: They tie a box for the guys and and then
1:08:22
Speaker 1: we get to say, hey, we had some prisoners tie
1:08:24
Speaker 1: these flies for you guys and so here. Yeah, so
1:08:27
Speaker 1: it's a pretty cool program. You want me to stump
1:08:30
Speaker 1: you guys on a piece of fly fish and trivia? Yeah?
1:08:34
Speaker 1: I do ready for this? Bring it on? Name for me?
1:08:38
Speaker 1: The two countries the two leading commercial fly tying countries,
1:08:45
Speaker 1: but not not the US. Kenya? How'd you know that?
1:08:53
Speaker 1: And Kenya would Thailand? I did not know? Kenya does it?
1:09:01
Speaker 1: Sri Lanka is up there too, it aren't they. Maybe
1:09:04
Speaker 1: I'm wrong I should have said that name two countries.
1:09:12
Speaker 1: I kind of. I started getting in there a little
1:09:14
Speaker 1: over my waiters by the leading, the leading. I was
1:09:19
Speaker 1: thinking of hobbyists, like where where where people happened to
1:09:23
Speaker 1: tie flies? It's not where they were commercially. Maufactured about
1:09:28
Speaker 1: fly sweatshops. As we're talking about all your flies come
1:09:30
Speaker 1: from sweatshops, So you know, no I don't. Yeah, I don't.
1:09:34
Speaker 1: Very sad places really, so oh yeah, no, not not
1:09:38
Speaker 1: all though I'm I'm I'm oversetting there. They're actually and
1:09:41
Speaker 1: and there are a couple of programs and I'm totally
1:09:44
Speaker 1: blanking on the name. Maybe Sam, you can help me
1:09:46
Speaker 1: remember this one. But there's a new fly company that
1:09:47
Speaker 1: came out in the last couple of years that is
1:09:49
Speaker 1: actually working with local communities as like a way to
1:09:53
Speaker 1: bring people up out of poverty. I know, I know
1:09:55
Speaker 1: one outfit, and hunturis that is doing that fair trade
1:09:58
Speaker 1: to change. Yeah, it's it's something like that. I think
1:10:03
Speaker 1: it's it's not quite that, but it's some of that.
1:10:04
Speaker 1: But there are there are some bad actors in that
1:10:07
Speaker 1: world who actually pay people terribly and that's wi flies
1:10:09
Speaker 1: is so cheap. And then there are other companies who
1:10:11
Speaker 1: are trying to pay people a little living wage and
1:10:13
Speaker 1: make it. Many of the many of the top fly
1:10:16
Speaker 1: fish of fly producing companies like up Quah and Montana
1:10:20
Speaker 1: Fly Company have have very good working conditions and and
1:10:24
Speaker 1: pay much higher wages than many of the other opportunities
1:10:29
Speaker 1: around those areas. And I know they take that quality
1:10:33
Speaker 1: control very very seriously and visit their facilities a lot.
1:10:37
Speaker 1: But I know there are also some real sweatshop situations
1:10:41
Speaker 1: going on fair trade flies. Man, that's a company i'd start, Yeah,
1:10:45
Speaker 1: I mean, just I'd go get the cheap as I
1:10:47
Speaker 1: could get them fair to me trade, sir? Enough? Is
1:10:54
Speaker 1: that sub three dollars? What is it that? Uh? What
1:10:57
Speaker 1: in your mind makes like what in your mind makes
1:11:02
Speaker 1: a culture or a group of people? Parodyable? That's not
1:11:09
Speaker 1: a word, but you know I'm pretty good paroitiable parodyable, yeah, right,
1:11:15
Speaker 1: right for parody. I think if you get a group
1:11:19
Speaker 1: of people that take something very very seriously, that it
1:11:24
Speaker 1: is ripe for parody. And now I I've been asked,
1:11:29
Speaker 1: you know, do you think that fly fishers take themselves
1:11:31
Speaker 1: too seriously? And I and the answers, no, I don't.
1:11:35
Speaker 1: I don't. It's not up to me how serious you
1:11:38
Speaker 1: want to be about fly fishing or anything else in
1:11:41
Speaker 1: your life. So you take it as seriously as you want. Um,
1:11:44
Speaker 1: that's not my job, So I don't, you know, but
1:11:49
Speaker 1: it does make it easy to make fun of you, um,
1:11:53
Speaker 1: and and your sports and what you like to do.
1:11:56
Speaker 1: And I'm one of them. I mean, I'm just I'm
1:11:57
Speaker 1: making fun of myself as well. I mean, there's no
1:12:00
Speaker 1: and I don't think mean spirited about the stuff that
1:12:03
Speaker 1: that I do. It's just too easy to take something
1:12:07
Speaker 1: that is so serious and there's so many arguments surrounding it.
1:12:10
Speaker 1: What's right, what's wrong? I mean, what's better? What's you know?
1:12:13
Speaker 1: Is nymphing actually fly fishing is there's so many arguments,
1:12:17
Speaker 1: and all those arguments that we've been talking about for
1:12:20
Speaker 1: the last hour are exactly what makes it parodiable is
1:12:25
Speaker 1: that it's It's also something that you know, when I
1:12:30
Speaker 1: make the joke, people start tagging their friends, and so
1:12:34
Speaker 1: you know you've hit the nail on the head because
1:12:36
Speaker 1: this is this is oh, that's you, John, Tom John,
1:12:40
Speaker 1: this guy just knelled you. This guy's got you, you know,
1:12:44
Speaker 1: and so you just start to know that one worked
1:12:46
Speaker 1: because people are now tagging each other in it. And
1:12:49
Speaker 1: so it's like the argument about whether what makes a
1:12:52
Speaker 1: fly a fly is is nymphing really you know, like
1:12:55
Speaker 1: a trashy way to fish, or is dry fly fishing
1:12:58
Speaker 1: the only real fly fishing? All those things and all
1:13:01
Speaker 1: the seriousness in which people have these arguments, it just
1:13:05
Speaker 1: makes it really really fun to to parody. You know, uh,
1:13:12
Speaker 1: take a guy like take a guy like Jeff Fox
1:13:14
Speaker 1: or who does parody um I would venture to guess
1:13:20
Speaker 1: that most of his audience is that his audience is
1:13:27
Speaker 1: not holy, but I would guess largely comprised of the
1:13:32
Speaker 1: subjects of his parody rednecks, right, right, Isn't that that's
1:13:38
Speaker 1: I think everybody likes it, But that's who takes the
1:13:40
Speaker 1: greatest joy in it because it's done from a place
1:13:41
Speaker 1: of love. It's like his humor, he's like, he parodies
1:13:45
Speaker 1: rednecks from a position of love and respect. And I'm
1:13:49
Speaker 1: one of you, right yeah. Uh is most of your
1:13:53
Speaker 1: audience people who think that fly fishermen are self righteous,
1:13:58
Speaker 1: annoying assholes as most of your audience fly fisherman. I
1:14:03
Speaker 1: think it's fly fisherman, you know. I mean I've had
1:14:06
Speaker 1: people tell me they got into fly fishing because of
1:14:11
Speaker 1: the fact that they watched my videos because they thought
1:14:14
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, I just thought it was a
1:14:16
Speaker 1: bunch of like, you know, tweed jacket with the leather
1:14:20
Speaker 1: on the elbows, sort of assholes. And then I watched
1:14:22
Speaker 1: your videos and I'm like, oh no, this is this
1:14:24
Speaker 1: is sort of a fun thing. I'll try it out. Um,
1:14:27
Speaker 1: it's it's fly fisherman, And and uh, I think it's
1:14:30
Speaker 1: people that you know, just think it's fun to be
1:14:33
Speaker 1: made fun of and things fun to make fun of themselves.
1:14:36
Speaker 1: And and I think most of them realize it's it's
1:14:39
Speaker 1: a joke. I'm just kidding around and and but everything
1:14:42
Speaker 1: that Hank does is comes from a place of logic.
1:14:45
Speaker 1: So if you watch him, I mean, as illogical as
1:14:48
Speaker 1: it is, you can follow his logic. You know, there's
1:14:53
Speaker 1: there's an absolute logic to it. So, um, I just
1:14:56
Speaker 1: try to pick up on conversations that I have with
1:14:59
Speaker 1: guys out life fishing, or the arguments they have, or
1:15:02
Speaker 1: the different videos. And I mean, how many more videos
1:15:05
Speaker 1: do we need on how to tie a certain not?
1:15:08
Speaker 1: It's like I was gonna make a video that you know.
1:15:10
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, people are calling me and they're
1:15:11
Speaker 1: asked me, Hank, how do I tie a surgeons not?
1:15:13
Speaker 1: And so what you're gonna want to do is you're
1:15:15
Speaker 1: gonna want to get two pieces of you tip it
1:15:17
Speaker 1: and you're gonna like line those side by side. Now
1:15:19
Speaker 1: you're gonna get a smartphone. You're gonna go to Google
1:15:21
Speaker 1: and you're gonna type in how do I tie a
1:15:23
Speaker 1: surgeon's not? There's seven thousand videos. Find the shortest one,
1:15:27
Speaker 1: there you go, and and so it's just you know,
1:15:30
Speaker 1: I think that the audience for Hank Patterson is definitely
1:15:33
Speaker 1: people that fly fish. Hardcore fly fishers like it, and
1:15:37
Speaker 1: guides like it, and some of them absolutely hate me.
1:15:40
Speaker 1: That's that's the next question. Because you're you're familiar with
1:15:42
Speaker 1: the movie Spinal Tap. Yeah, oh yeah, I don't know
1:15:45
Speaker 1: if it's true, but let's just pretend it's true. Uh,
1:15:49
Speaker 1: I heard that. I wish I knew what this is true. Yeah,
1:15:53
Speaker 1: I need type in the Cult and Spinal Tap. Let's
1:16:01
Speaker 1: let's let's not pretend that what I'm gonna tell you
1:16:03
Speaker 1: is true. I'm the singer from the Cult. I just
1:16:07
Speaker 1: got some kick ass songs. The singer from the Cult
1:16:11
Speaker 1: was insulted by Spinal Tap. Oh, he was insulted by
1:16:15
Speaker 1: a rock parody? Is that true? Really? Let's just say
1:16:20
Speaker 1: it was, uh for a minute, until we find out
1:16:23
Speaker 1: that it's not. Um, do you do a lot of
1:16:27
Speaker 1: fly fishermen get annoyed that you goof on it so hard?
1:16:30
Speaker 1: I don't know about a lot. I mean, it's it's
1:16:32
Speaker 1: like as far as comments that I read or emails
1:16:34
Speaker 1: that I get, and I don't get a ton of
1:16:36
Speaker 1: people that will like actually email me every now and then,
1:16:39
Speaker 1: or I'll get comments on my videos and stuff like that,
1:16:42
Speaker 1: and it it really is. You know, hundreds are more
1:16:46
Speaker 1: to one, but every now and then somebody absolutely hates
1:16:50
Speaker 1: what I do and they hate me, and it gets
1:16:54
Speaker 1: it can get really personal. I read one one time
1:16:57
Speaker 1: a guy had written like at least three geographs on
1:17:00
Speaker 1: how he was gonna because I was wearing an Orvis hat,
1:17:03
Speaker 1: he was going to return everything he had ever bought
1:17:07
Speaker 1: from Orvis because of my video and how much he
1:17:11
Speaker 1: now hated now he extended it to them, He now
1:17:13
Speaker 1: hated them as well for supporting what I did. And
1:17:17
Speaker 1: and uh, that guy takes himself too seriously probably, But
1:17:22
Speaker 1: but comedy, you know, I'll say this is that I
1:17:25
Speaker 1: don't get offended if somebody doesn't think that I'm funny,
1:17:28
Speaker 1: because comedy is absolutely subjective. Just because you don't think
1:17:33
Speaker 1: I'm funny doesn't mean that it isn't funny. It means
1:17:36
Speaker 1: that it isn't funny to you. Now when when those
1:17:42
Speaker 1: people think some stuff is objectively funny almost almost yeah, yeah,
1:17:46
Speaker 1: but meaning like if somebody says, I don't think Hank
1:17:49
Speaker 1: Patterson is funny the guy is obnoxious. He is obnoxious,
1:17:53
Speaker 1: you know. And if you don't like my style of
1:17:55
Speaker 1: comedy or you don't like the things that I do,
1:17:57
Speaker 1: I think that's fine. But now when it's personal and
1:17:59
Speaker 1: you aren't telling other people that they shouldn't like me,
1:18:02
Speaker 1: or you start threatening to take your gear back, because
1:18:05
Speaker 1: then you know, now it's all about you. It isn't
1:18:07
Speaker 1: about the fact that I mean, you can just stop
1:18:10
Speaker 1: the video and move on. I mean, you don't have people.
1:18:13
Speaker 1: The guy also had typed in there that he's like,
1:18:15
Speaker 1: I've watched three of your videos and and I thought
1:18:19
Speaker 1: you should have stopped it one, like like, well, maybe
1:18:22
Speaker 1: the most I've seen you get you getting. Yeah, I've
1:18:28
Speaker 1: seen Um I put a lot of images and stuff
1:18:34
Speaker 1: up on Instagram, which I like that platform a lot.
1:18:37
Speaker 1: I think that people go onto Facebook just to fight.
1:18:40
Speaker 1: People log into Facebook, theyre already they're already pissed. Yeah,
1:18:44
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, oh that Donald Trump. You know,
1:18:47
Speaker 1: they go into Facebook like with that attitude, right, Um,
1:18:51
Speaker 1: But Instagram people are kind of chill. But still you
1:18:54
Speaker 1: see stuff like you'll see, uh, you'll put a thing
1:18:58
Speaker 1: up and you'll see a little of some guys being like, oh,
1:19:02
Speaker 1: you know, oh this guy, he's the worst guy in
1:19:05
Speaker 1: the world, and a guy like, yeah, I gave up
1:19:08
Speaker 1: on him long ago. It's like, you're in my You're
1:19:16
Speaker 1: like comment, You're in my Instagram account carrying on a
1:19:23
Speaker 1: dialogue about it. You scroll, like, what is giving up
1:19:27
Speaker 1: on something? Look like to you you haven't given up,
1:19:33
Speaker 1: but that it isn't taking forty five minutes of your
1:19:36
Speaker 1: Monday afternoon to comment about me and how you've given
1:19:40
Speaker 1: up on me. But on the follow like, do you
1:19:45
Speaker 1: think it's because there's a lack of understanding of satire?
1:19:48
Speaker 1: Like do you think that those are folks who just
1:19:50
Speaker 1: don't understand the concept of satire and are taking it
1:19:52
Speaker 1: seriously and going this guy's asshole my favorite. I did
1:19:56
Speaker 1: an episode how to Survive Yellowstone National Park I remember well,
1:20:00
Speaker 1: and it starts with, um, thirty two million people visit
1:20:04
Speaker 1: yellow Stille National Park every single day. And it goes
1:20:08
Speaker 1: on to say, like these ridiculous numbers, forty two people die,
1:20:12
Speaker 1: you know, and and it then it just starts to stay,
1:20:15
Speaker 1: stay the f away from grizzly bears. Stay. That's all
1:20:17
Speaker 1: the advice that that Hank gives. So it gives these
1:20:20
Speaker 1: ridiculous statistics, and uh, this lady commented on there and
1:20:25
Speaker 1: she's like, this is ridiculous. I don't think any of
1:20:29
Speaker 1: this is true. I live in the Yellowstone area and
1:20:31
Speaker 1: all you're doing is getting people afraid to come here
1:20:35
Speaker 1: on those tourism dollars. And to say that thirty two
1:20:38
Speaker 1: million people visit every single day is ridiculous. It's not
1:20:42
Speaker 1: even close. And I thought, Wow, she did not understand
1:20:45
Speaker 1: satire whatsoever. And I feel like satire is a is
1:20:50
Speaker 1: a dying art. I think people are like taking things
1:20:55
Speaker 1: in the media just so literally. Now, we're so conditioned
1:20:57
Speaker 1: to take things literally and for since a sationalism sake
1:21:01
Speaker 1: that the idea of like and things are so sensational
1:21:03
Speaker 1: that are like just in our basic media that feel
1:21:06
Speaker 1: like satire. Like we're losing the concept of satire entirely.
1:21:10
Speaker 1: And it makes me sad. I love satire. I think
1:21:13
Speaker 1: Hank is at his best, and you know, and there's
1:21:16
Speaker 1: varying degrees even for me. I mean I watched the
1:21:17
Speaker 1: videos and it's like, oh man, I really like that one,
1:21:20
Speaker 1: and and you know, I mean there's varying degrees to
1:21:22
Speaker 1: how funny they might be. And if you make enough stuff.
1:21:25
Speaker 1: I mean, you make some stuff that hopefully everything you
1:21:28
Speaker 1: put out you believe in, and I do. I've I've
1:21:30
Speaker 1: made videos that I have never put out because I'm like,
1:21:32
Speaker 1: it's not funny enough, do not put it out? And
1:21:35
Speaker 1: uh and and so there's varying degrees, but um, I
1:21:39
Speaker 1: think Hank Patterson is definitely at his best when it
1:21:43
Speaker 1: blurs the line between like is this is this guy serious?
1:21:46
Speaker 1: Is this you know? I mean, if you start to
1:21:48
Speaker 1: like really question it, Uh, then I think that that
1:21:51
Speaker 1: he's at his best, which gets harder and harder to
1:21:53
Speaker 1: do because people now know who Hank Patterson is. Um.
1:21:56
Speaker 1: I talked to a lot of people are like, I
1:21:58
Speaker 1: saw your first two videos and I had no idea
1:22:01
Speaker 1: if this was a joke, which I thought, well, then
1:22:03
Speaker 1: you're an idiot, because they're I mean, they're clearly a joke.
1:22:07
Speaker 1: But still it's sort of like like rides that line
1:22:10
Speaker 1: of anything that you can identify with, um and and
1:22:14
Speaker 1: it hits close to home. Is I think where it's
1:22:16
Speaker 1: at its best, and that's where satires at its best.
1:22:19
Speaker 1: It's like when you go, yeah, I'm that guy. I'm
1:22:23
Speaker 1: I've met a lot of Hank Patterson's on the road. Yeah,
1:22:29
Speaker 1: that that was the next thing I was going to
1:22:30
Speaker 1: ask you about. Is as much as it's fun to
1:22:33
Speaker 1: laugh about how sanctimonious fly fishermen are, right and how
1:22:40
Speaker 1: prissy they are and and uh like uptight they are
1:22:43
Speaker 1: and weak they are in a feat they are whatever
1:22:47
Speaker 1: are they are? They? I don't think so because that's
1:22:51
Speaker 1: as funny. It's like my experience. That's That's what I'm saying,
1:22:56
Speaker 1: Like there's all the thing. But then like dudes that
1:22:58
Speaker 1: I hang out with the they're just guys fishing. It's
1:23:02
Speaker 1: like people going fishing. So where did it come? Like
1:23:04
Speaker 1: how it's sort of the thing that it exists. It
1:23:07
Speaker 1: only it's like it only exists because the parody. Yeah,
1:23:11
Speaker 1: but Hayk Patterson isn't that Hank Patterson isn't is a blowhard.
1:23:14
Speaker 1: Yeah he's not like you know, like he's not like
1:23:17
Speaker 1: super purist. He's just like the blowhard. Yeah yeah, there's
1:23:20
Speaker 1: nothing yeah periost about him. He's just so it doesn't
1:23:24
Speaker 1: play on that, you know what I'm saying, Like what
1:23:26
Speaker 1: happens when something when we have this there's this cultural
1:23:29
Speaker 1: understanding of a thing and it's it's it exists because
1:23:34
Speaker 1: of the joke about it. For instance, the eighties. Okay,
1:23:39
Speaker 1: we goof on the eighties. When people goof on the eighties,
1:23:41
Speaker 1: they're goofing on, goofing on the eighties, right, not the reality.
1:23:46
Speaker 1: The narrative like the same thing with the sixties. The
1:23:50
Speaker 1: narrative of the sixties is now driven by parody. Yeah,
1:23:53
Speaker 1: everything about the sixties is a reference to the parody
1:23:56
Speaker 1: we've created about the sixties. The eighties has become like
1:23:59
Speaker 1: it's like a already of a parody. Yeah, you know,
1:24:02
Speaker 1: like it's it's you don't recollect what it was like.
1:24:04
Speaker 1: You recollect what it's like when people goof on it,
1:24:08
Speaker 1: and that's what you've come to think it was. Like,
1:24:10
Speaker 1: So who is the like, where are the real asshole fly, fisherman,
1:24:15
Speaker 1: give me some names. They're out there. I mean there's
1:24:19
Speaker 1: certainly what do they do because it seems like just
1:24:23
Speaker 1: like kind of like chill people that like to be
1:24:25
Speaker 1: outside and fish. Yeah, I think it's it's it's I mean,
1:24:28
Speaker 1: it's somebody that. What what makes it again really parodiable
1:24:33
Speaker 1: is how serious we all take it and me included, Right,
1:24:36
Speaker 1: and you get into these discussions about flies and about
1:24:40
Speaker 1: you know, different ways to drift, to fly one, how
1:24:41
Speaker 1: to cast a line in double hall, in this and that,
1:24:43
Speaker 1: and it's just all the things that in the thought
1:24:45
Speaker 1: processes and the seriousness that go into just trying to
1:24:48
Speaker 1: trick a fish into hitting a hook is ridiculous in
1:24:52
Speaker 1: and of itself. And then there are guys that get
1:24:54
Speaker 1: really into that and and just can go out and
1:24:57
Speaker 1: have a good time. And then there are guys that
1:24:59
Speaker 1: really do want to be better than everybody else and
1:25:01
Speaker 1: really do take it very seriously. And if people don't
1:25:05
Speaker 1: do it, you know, the way that they think it
1:25:07
Speaker 1: should be done, then you know they're they're just assholes
1:25:10
Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, they're just people in the world,
1:25:13
Speaker 1: no matter whether they fish or don't fish. So clearly
1:25:16
Speaker 1: there are people that fly fish that are you know,
1:25:19
Speaker 1: they take all that seriousness that we all have and
1:25:22
Speaker 1: they just add their their assholessness to it. But but
1:25:27
Speaker 1: does it even over index? Meaning like, okay, we look
1:25:32
Speaker 1: like you just take Americans index check this out? Check
1:25:37
Speaker 1: out good. If you were gonna go and take you're
1:25:41
Speaker 1: gonna take a random sampling You're in randomly sample of
1:25:45
Speaker 1: thousand Americans. Then you're gonna count up. How many assholes
1:25:48
Speaker 1: you got? Right? Like? Whatever? Okay, so there we have
1:25:56
Speaker 1: our figures. You take a thousand fly fishermen. No, No,
1:26:05
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so I don't. I'll say, like,
1:26:10
Speaker 1: I go around to a lot of fly fishing shows
1:26:12
Speaker 1: and fish with you know, strangers quite a bit, just
1:26:15
Speaker 1: because you'll go do shows and so the guys take
1:26:18
Speaker 1: you out and fishing, and uh, I rarely run into
1:26:21
Speaker 1: somebody that I'm like, this guy is just a douche.
1:26:24
Speaker 1: I don't, you know. It's typically like people that are
1:26:27
Speaker 1: pretty like minded, and and uh, you know, I don't
1:26:31
Speaker 1: run into a lot of jerks, to be honest with you.
1:26:35
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're out there clearly, but I just don't.
1:26:38
Speaker 1: I don't. And maybe it's but to call back a
1:26:42
Speaker 1: conversation we were having just a couple of hours ago
1:26:45
Speaker 1: about the fly shop guy. I've been in. That fly
1:26:51
Speaker 1: shop guy is a trope, like an armchair angler who
1:26:53
Speaker 1: hangs out in fly shops. Uh no, it's it's it's
1:26:56
Speaker 1: the kid you generally mid twe these thinks. They're like
1:27:01
Speaker 1: the most hardcore angler. The only job they can get
1:27:03
Speaker 1: is working in a fly shop, and they are they're
1:27:07
Speaker 1: bitter at all the people who come in and no
1:27:09
Speaker 1: less than them, and need to exert flex their knowledge
1:27:13
Speaker 1: over everybody who walks in the door who asked them
1:27:15
Speaker 1: a question, and to continually reinforce their own identity as
1:27:19
Speaker 1: an expert by diminishing the clients who come in the door. Yeah,
1:27:24
Speaker 1: and these were just literally walk in the door to
1:27:28
Speaker 1: be educated, to get some information to spend their money.
1:27:32
Speaker 1: And and they're demeaning to them, and they talk down
1:27:35
Speaker 1: to them, and they roll their eyes at them. It's
1:27:37
Speaker 1: it's the record store guy, you know, it's the Jack
1:27:41
Speaker 1: Black in high fidelity character that the customers are absolute
1:27:46
Speaker 1: pain in the acids. They're coming in, You're trying to
1:27:49
Speaker 1: tie up some flies, you're thinking about what you're gonna be,
1:27:52
Speaker 1: you know, where you're gonna be fishing later in the afternoon.
1:27:54
Speaker 1: And now this son of a beach walks through the
1:27:56
Speaker 1: door way. He wants to buy something and interrupt my
1:27:59
Speaker 1: day and ask me questions. And he's the guy that
1:28:01
Speaker 1: as opposed to saying, well, they're hitting on spruce. Moll's
1:28:04
Speaker 1: is like ship man, I had to figure it out.
1:28:08
Speaker 1: You figure it out. There's all though there's a lot
1:28:12
Speaker 1: of those guys that do not want to give out
1:28:14
Speaker 1: information because I figured it out. I'm like, just on
1:28:18
Speaker 1: your own, like nobody ever told you anything. Well, I
1:28:21
Speaker 1: mean I went out with my dad. Well maybe this
1:28:23
Speaker 1: guy didn't have a dad and he came into your shop,
1:28:26
Speaker 1: and your answer for him not having a dad, it's
1:28:29
Speaker 1: just shipped on him. I mean, so you know what
1:28:33
Speaker 1: I mean. I mean there is that there's that like, well,
1:28:35
Speaker 1: you know, I had to figure it out. I mean,
1:28:37
Speaker 1: if you ever asked a guy on on a on
1:28:39
Speaker 1: a river, it's like that's doing well. It's like, oh man,
1:28:41
Speaker 1: you're doing good. What are they hitting on? And I
1:28:43
Speaker 1: mean you get to look like just lost for his
1:28:46
Speaker 1: pin number? Where are they hitting on? You know? I
1:28:51
Speaker 1: just I've got your credit card here, can you give
1:28:52
Speaker 1: me your zip code? I mean it's like, why is
1:28:56
Speaker 1: that crappy question? It's because he just discovered a lot
1:29:02
Speaker 1: of people know what they're hitting on and sharing that
1:29:04
Speaker 1: sort of information. Now, that's another I think people can
1:29:07
Speaker 1: argue about what what how much information you should share
1:29:10
Speaker 1: and what people should have to figure out on their own.
1:29:12
Speaker 1: But yeah, I was listening to an interview with the
1:29:16
Speaker 1: Linguists one time, and the linguists was talking about tracking
1:29:21
Speaker 1: trends in language trends and phrasing, and they were just
1:29:26
Speaker 1: saying that there's a thing that they'd be interested in
1:29:28
Speaker 1: looking at. I think it would be solvable, as when
1:29:31
Speaker 1: did waitresses start saying, are you still working on that?
1:29:40
Speaker 1: There's a point in time you'll go back? And no
1:29:42
Speaker 1: one said that, Like no one said that to your
1:29:46
Speaker 1: father when he was a child. This this is like
1:29:49
Speaker 1: a linguists explained this, like no one said to your
1:29:51
Speaker 1: father when he was a child, are you still working
1:29:52
Speaker 1: on that? And then it came from somewhere and spread
1:29:57
Speaker 1: and it's like a kind of thing that was explained,
1:29:59
Speaker 1: like a kind of they like to spend their time on.
1:30:01
Speaker 1: How do these things start. The thing that the fly
1:30:04
Speaker 1: fishing community like a thing they do that I'll never
1:30:08
Speaker 1: understand is um, blank river is fishing well today. No
1:30:19
Speaker 1: other type of angler, Yeah, no other type of angler
1:30:24
Speaker 1: on the planet would say that the blackfoot is fishing
1:30:27
Speaker 1: well today. No, Like like no person would say, um no,
1:30:33
Speaker 1: no bass fisherman, no, no tuna fisherman, no catfish fisherman
1:30:39
Speaker 1: would ever utter the words blank is fishing well today.
1:30:44
Speaker 1: The Pacific is fishing Gulf Stream is fishing well. They
1:30:52
Speaker 1: would not say it. I challenge you to find me
1:30:56
Speaker 1: someone to say it outside of this very specific context.
1:31:00
Speaker 1: M hmm. It's best said holding a glass swirling a
1:31:07
Speaker 1: glass of red wine. My favorite of those types of
1:31:11
Speaker 1: statements that I don't know but I would guess is
1:31:15
Speaker 1: also a specific to fly fishing statement is did you
1:31:20
Speaker 1: catch any fish today? We moved a few fish. Musky
1:31:26
Speaker 1: anglers will say that. Conventional musky anglers. We had a
1:31:31
Speaker 1: few chasers. Someone saying how their husbands. So a colleague
1:31:37
Speaker 1: of mine was saying that her husband is enjoying, her
1:31:42
Speaker 1: husband to be is enjoying a very good day down
1:31:45
Speaker 1: in Florida because he jumped to you gotta you gotta
1:31:51
Speaker 1: take what you can get, which I'm fine with that
1:31:56
Speaker 1: up to only he held it long long enough for
1:32:00
Speaker 1: it to jump. But small victories and miles and I
1:32:03
Speaker 1: are just coming back from Florida where that was all
1:32:06
Speaker 1: we got. So when people ask how we did well's, well,
1:32:09
Speaker 1: we didn't catch any, but we were sort of close.
1:32:12
Speaker 1: Jumped one, yeah, one, I had one just break me
1:32:15
Speaker 1: off on the first head shake before it could even jump.
1:32:18
Speaker 1: So at least he has that much to say, yeah,
1:32:21
Speaker 1: you're you're interested in Um, you're interested in I can't really,
1:32:27
Speaker 1: that's not really something you should say. I was gonna say,
1:32:29
Speaker 1: you're interested in conservation, but like, yeah, yeah, are you
1:32:41
Speaker 1: offering to let me conserve something? Where do you see
1:32:45
Speaker 1: yourself in five years? Wise, conservation curious? Yeah, you're that's
1:32:53
Speaker 1: a great way to put your conservations. Let's try this.
1:32:56
Speaker 1: Let's try this. You're a conservationist, conservation minded, your conservation?
1:33:01
Speaker 1: What does that mean? I am? Well, I mean, you know,
1:33:05
Speaker 1: the more that I got into fly fishing, I think
1:33:08
Speaker 1: one of the biggest surprises to me was that, you know, conservation,
1:33:12
Speaker 1: you know, began to interest me. And uh, well, you know,
1:33:17
Speaker 1: I never I guess I would have thought of myself
1:33:20
Speaker 1: as somebody who cared, but I never would have thought
1:33:24
Speaker 1: I would have any sort of platform to do anything positive. Uh.
1:33:30
Speaker 1: You know, as far as conservate, you just go through
1:33:32
Speaker 1: life quietly, caring, quietly caring and and doing absolutely but
1:33:37
Speaker 1: rooting for the good old days and rooting for the
1:33:41
Speaker 1: good and for yet earth. I want you to know,
1:33:46
Speaker 1: I hope this thing works out for you. I'll be
1:33:48
Speaker 1: dead before we know. Um yeah, I uh, you know.
1:33:52
Speaker 1: The hank stuff. So I work a lot with Trout Unlimited,
1:33:55
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it dawned on me at one
1:33:59
Speaker 1: point I know nothing about you know, like science, and uh,
1:34:03
Speaker 1: you know, I think that to a degree, most people
1:34:06
Speaker 1: have to take some sort of a leap of faith
1:34:08
Speaker 1: in in in a group of people or in you know, science.
1:34:11
Speaker 1: I will admit to you I'm not going to pour
1:34:15
Speaker 1: over the science. There are certain things that I know,
1:34:18
Speaker 1: you know, as far as littering and and you know
1:34:21
Speaker 1: that that I shouldn't do, you know, Um, but you know,
1:34:26
Speaker 1: I I have made some conservation videos, and uh, I
1:34:31
Speaker 1: think that with climate change in particular being such a
1:34:38
Speaker 1: hot button topic, which I don't understand, which actually surprised me.
1:34:41
Speaker 1: If yeah, that people are like so piste off before
1:34:46
Speaker 1: the conversation starts, I had no idea that was the case.
1:34:49
Speaker 1: Chris Wood. I've puzzled over that. That it's it's interesting
1:34:53
Speaker 1: that it's it's it's one of those things that's interesting
1:34:56
Speaker 1: to me that it's partisan, because it seems that it
1:34:59
Speaker 1: would be a scientific discussion. It will be like, um,
1:35:02
Speaker 1: it seems to be like you you look at a
1:35:04
Speaker 1: body of evidence and you believe the body like you
1:35:09
Speaker 1: like you look at like, oh that makes sense, I
1:35:10
Speaker 1: support this, or I I you know, I arrive at
1:35:13
Speaker 1: the same conclusion. Or you look at a body of
1:35:15
Speaker 1: evidence and you'd see a lot of holes in the
1:35:17
Speaker 1: body of evidence, and you'd be like, well, I don't
1:35:19
Speaker 1: agree with that. It would be like, it's weird that
1:35:22
Speaker 1: it falls that it winds up falling that your understanding
1:35:26
Speaker 1: of it tips on partisan lines and doesn't tip on
1:35:29
Speaker 1: just the same way if I said you, like if
1:35:31
Speaker 1: you said, why is the sky blue? And I presented
1:35:32
Speaker 1: you with a here's my explanation of why it's blue?
1:35:35
Speaker 1: And you saw it, and you're like, um, you know,
1:35:38
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying, but that I don't buy
1:35:40
Speaker 1: that there has been another explanation, because look, what's wrong
1:35:42
Speaker 1: with your argument those two. It's not like there's like
1:35:45
Speaker 1: a right wing way of looking at why the sky
1:35:47
Speaker 1: is blue and a left wing lay of looking at
1:35:49
Speaker 1: the sky. But whether or not you sort of accept
1:35:52
Speaker 1: or not accept the scientific communities findings about it, how
1:35:58
Speaker 1: is it partisan? Yeah, it's a bizarre thing. I mean
1:36:02
Speaker 1: what I've tried to do is figure out is like,
1:36:05
Speaker 1: how can I have any sort of an effect? And
1:36:07
Speaker 1: I realized you can't. I can I change what happens.
1:36:12
Speaker 1: But the the videos as far as like the arguments
1:36:16
Speaker 1: that people have in the partisanship of it, uh, that
1:36:19
Speaker 1: that I've tried to make is um. The video I'm
1:36:22
Speaker 1: working on right now is is how to talk about
1:36:25
Speaker 1: talking about climate chan? So it's literally just how do
1:36:30
Speaker 1: we have a conversation that I'm not going to take
1:36:32
Speaker 1: either side. I'm not going to be a climate change denier.
1:36:36
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say climate change is happening. I'm
1:36:38
Speaker 1: not gonna say it's human cause you're not human. I'm
1:36:40
Speaker 1: just gonna have a It's a video just specifically based
1:36:45
Speaker 1: on how can we have a conversation about it without
1:36:49
Speaker 1: keep using our minds? Well, I've I've long since said
1:36:53
Speaker 1: that you can't have can you believe this? You can't
1:36:56
Speaker 1: start a conversation with fuck you? And so it's star
1:37:00
Speaker 1: there that you have to be willing to listen to
1:37:04
Speaker 1: each other. And yeah, rule one is at the point
1:37:08
Speaker 1: that somebody says that we now know the conversation is over,
1:37:15
Speaker 1: the conversation has has now ended, but that's not gonna
1:37:19
Speaker 1: that exchange isn't gonna occur. And then a couple of
1:37:21
Speaker 1: minutes later, someone's gonna go, you know what, man, I
1:37:25
Speaker 1: really see your point. You're right, well, I you know,
1:37:28
Speaker 1: I mean, and then the other thing is like trying
1:37:29
Speaker 1: to figure out how do you communicate, you know, with
1:37:33
Speaker 1: everyone as opposed to just your group of people, right,
1:37:37
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about you know that you know,
1:37:39
Speaker 1: you go on Facebook or whatever, and these arguments occur,
1:37:43
Speaker 1: and they just start his arguments, they end his arguments
1:37:45
Speaker 1: that absolutely nothing is solved, and they're typically based on
1:37:49
Speaker 1: two people that have differing views of will say, climate
1:37:54
Speaker 1: change and nothing's going to change. They're they're they're differing views,
1:38:00
Speaker 1: and so it's almost you just sort of I always
1:38:02
Speaker 1: feel like you're beating your head against the wall if
1:38:05
Speaker 1: all you're going to do is cheer, lead and speak
1:38:08
Speaker 1: to your choir. And so I think it's fun to
1:38:12
Speaker 1: use comedy as a disarming element. And so I'm not
1:38:17
Speaker 1: coming into it with f you. I'm not coming into
1:38:19
Speaker 1: it to you know, berrate you. I'm not coming with
1:38:23
Speaker 1: you know, you know, all the facts and figures in
1:38:25
Speaker 1: the serious side of it. I mean, you can just
1:38:27
Speaker 1: let's just let's disarm this thing and let's at least
1:38:29
Speaker 1: degree that it doesn't have to be a partisan issue.
1:38:33
Speaker 1: Let's just figure out a way we can actually just
1:38:35
Speaker 1: have a conversation about it and then and then see
1:38:39
Speaker 1: where that conversation goes. Um whether or not that helps,
1:38:43
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, but I don't. You know,
1:38:46
Speaker 1: I'm not one to set out to make, you know,
1:38:50
Speaker 1: another video, to try to prove something to someone unless
1:38:54
Speaker 1: I figure out a way to get them to listen
1:38:56
Speaker 1: to what I'm to my point of view. If they
1:38:59
Speaker 1: won't us into my point of view, then then what
1:39:02
Speaker 1: what's the point? I mean, if all I'm getting is
1:39:05
Speaker 1: people that already agree with my point of view to
1:39:07
Speaker 1: say you goddamn right. You know, it was like, well
1:39:09
Speaker 1: that who cares? You haven't moved the needle, And so
1:39:12
Speaker 1: I always try to go, well, maybe you can move
1:39:15
Speaker 1: the needle just by figuring out how how do I
1:39:19
Speaker 1: approach everyone, you know, with with how do you talk
1:39:23
Speaker 1: about things like climate change or other conservation issues? And
1:39:27
Speaker 1: and uh, I mean that might seem like sort of
1:39:29
Speaker 1: a cop out to not take a hard line stand
1:39:32
Speaker 1: on on one side, and I think that's easier said
1:39:34
Speaker 1: than done, though extent. And I'll bring up a specific
1:39:37
Speaker 1: example recently that happened to me where I ran a
1:39:39
Speaker 1: foul of this without knowing that I would. I published
1:39:42
Speaker 1: something on our website and I used the term the
1:39:45
Speaker 1: phrase climate change deniers in that in that in that article,
1:39:51
Speaker 1: and I got an email from a reader accusing me
1:39:55
Speaker 1: of using pejorative language by using the phrase climate change
1:40:00
Speaker 1: deniers in the context that I did. And you know
1:40:03
Speaker 1: it turned into well, his his argument was just that
1:40:08
Speaker 1: that had that term had been co opted and used
1:40:10
Speaker 1: by the media to um to frame people who didn't
1:40:15
Speaker 1: agree with a particular understanding of climate change. That's a
1:40:19
Speaker 1: good point I never thought about exactly. And I and
1:40:21
Speaker 1: you're sort of teeing it up like you're seeing you're saying, like, oh,
1:40:24
Speaker 1: you know the guy that's wrong exactly. And and you know,
1:40:27
Speaker 1: he and I had what I thought was a pretty
1:40:29
Speaker 1: amicable exchange. We had some basic disagreements about and the
1:40:32
Speaker 1: Virginia climate change. But I had to admit, like I
1:40:35
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't even think of that term as triggering
1:40:40
Speaker 1: or as pejorative, and it had it made me sort
1:40:43
Speaker 1: of rethink, like, wow, I thought I was coming at
1:40:45
Speaker 1: this from a pretty safe space in terms of opening
1:40:47
Speaker 1: up a conversation and even this basic language that I
1:40:49
Speaker 1: thought was was on the table is charged. And so
1:40:52
Speaker 1: that's why, like in these things, I think it's very
1:40:55
Speaker 1: very difficult. I like your point of saying, well, I
1:40:58
Speaker 1: come at it from this comedic space, and I try
1:41:00
Speaker 1: and open up these open conversations, and I think a
1:41:02
Speaker 1: lot of us trying to do that and incidentally or
1:41:05
Speaker 1: accidentally use terms or phrases that turn it into a fight.
1:41:10
Speaker 1: Because that was certainly not my intention in the way
1:41:12
Speaker 1: that I put that together. And I would hope that
1:41:14
Speaker 1: person got more out of the article than that one thing,
1:41:16
Speaker 1: but they may not have. They may have been so
1:41:18
Speaker 1: turned off by their response to that phrase that they
1:41:22
Speaker 1: couldn't hear anything else that I don't want their mind
1:41:24
Speaker 1: to be changed. So so once once they see any
1:41:28
Speaker 1: sort of tip that you may be disagreeing with them,
1:41:31
Speaker 1: they're probably going to shut off. Yeah, And particularly if
1:41:35
Speaker 1: they feel and rightfully so, if they feel like they
1:41:37
Speaker 1: are being maligned or their perspective is being treated disrespectfully,
1:41:43
Speaker 1: then of course they're not gonna listen. And I think
1:41:45
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the biggest root cause in my mind,
1:41:48
Speaker 1: is that people tie their identity to their political beliefs
1:41:54
Speaker 1: or what political or whatever whatever climate changes their beliefs
1:41:58
Speaker 1: about the world around them. That the way they understand
1:42:02
Speaker 1: things is very deeply connected to who they see themselves
1:42:06
Speaker 1: as a person. So if that is to shift, then
1:42:09
Speaker 1: who they are as a person is no longer the
1:42:11
Speaker 1: same and no longer is pure. Perhaps. Yeah. The reason
1:42:17
Speaker 1: I bring this up about your interest and your your
1:42:20
Speaker 1: let's say, your support for the conservation movement, and you
1:42:23
Speaker 1: raise some good points um to comedy like like Hank Patterson, Yeah,
1:42:32
Speaker 1: is not he could probably uh act as though he is.
1:42:40
Speaker 1: He's not that interested in conservation. He's not like a
1:42:44
Speaker 1: supporter of the conservation movement up until the point like
1:42:47
Speaker 1: he would be up until the point where demonstrating his
1:42:50
Speaker 1: credentials there could be advantageous to him. Yeah, expressing the
1:42:56
Speaker 1: right sentiment could help him out in the right moment. Yeah.
1:42:59
Speaker 1: I think I look at it like if if, if
1:43:02
Speaker 1: this idiot can have a conversation about it, I mean,
1:43:07
Speaker 1: you should be able to have a conversation about it
1:43:11
Speaker 1: as well. Um, it is funny. I mean to take
1:43:14
Speaker 1: a character that that is that and talk about conservation
1:43:17
Speaker 1: and actually makes some serious like kind of spot on
1:43:22
Speaker 1: comments for the f three t I did a basically
1:43:25
Speaker 1: a soapbox speech about conservation and caring and the things
1:43:29
Speaker 1: that you can do and giving a ship and uh um.
1:43:33
Speaker 1: And it was right in the middle of the film tour,
1:43:36
Speaker 1: and it's it was two and a half minutes of
1:43:38
Speaker 1: just me shouting at a camera without any fishing in it.
1:43:42
Speaker 1: As I was a little concerned that that wouldn't be
1:43:45
Speaker 1: very well received at a fly fishing show, to have
1:43:50
Speaker 1: a guy not fish at all in his two and
1:43:52
Speaker 1: a half minutes um. But it was really well received
1:43:55
Speaker 1: and it but it's a little bit of a departure
1:43:57
Speaker 1: from the idiot side of of Hank Patterson. There are
1:43:59
Speaker 1: few of things that I've done that I will say
1:44:01
Speaker 1: that are just it's still that same, like over the
1:44:05
Speaker 1: top character. But maybe he's not saying something quite as
1:44:08
Speaker 1: stupid as as as he has in the in the past.
1:44:12
Speaker 1: But you almost have to break care like to be
1:44:13
Speaker 1: impactful a little bit. You have to break character because
1:44:15
Speaker 1: you have to be uh. You're saying to your audience
1:44:20
Speaker 1: you uh, you know I do. I I like laugh,
1:44:22
Speaker 1: I goof on us, I laugh at us. Yea um,
1:44:26
Speaker 1: and you like that you appreciate my sense of humor.
1:44:29
Speaker 1: So I'm now gonna act like who I am, yeah
1:44:33
Speaker 1: for real, which is his dude named Travis. And this
1:44:36
Speaker 1: dude named Travis likes rivers and wants rivers to be
1:44:40
Speaker 1: cleaning in good places, the whole lots of fish that
1:44:42
Speaker 1: we can catch. Yeah, now I will jump back into
1:44:44
Speaker 1: being I jump back into a guy that doesn't really
1:44:50
Speaker 1: understand any of this. Yeah. Yeah, well, and and I
1:44:54
Speaker 1: think neither of us understand much. Uh is the truth?
1:44:58
Speaker 1: I mean it, I guess my thing with the conservation
1:45:02
Speaker 1: really has been. I mean, I'm not joking when I
1:45:05
Speaker 1: say I don't. I don't know the science. I don't
1:45:07
Speaker 1: you know, I have not. I will readily admit, you know,
1:45:11
Speaker 1: so I don't. I'm not going to get into a
1:45:14
Speaker 1: science argument or debate with somebody about climate change. I
1:45:18
Speaker 1: mean there are I mean, as much as we like,
1:45:20
Speaker 1: there are certain things that I see that I, as
1:45:23
Speaker 1: a human being can do better. I mean, I can
1:45:26
Speaker 1: be a better steward. I can, you know, I cannot literally,
1:45:29
Speaker 1: I mean it is simple things that I can say,
1:45:32
Speaker 1: you know what, well, I know, But I'm just I'm
1:45:36
Speaker 1: just talking about conservation in general. Like you know, it's
1:45:38
Speaker 1: like there are things as far as the plastics problem,
1:45:41
Speaker 1: and there are things that you you look at now
1:45:43
Speaker 1: you know. Of course, the minute I say, you know,
1:45:45
Speaker 1: you should you know, kick plastic and and all that stuff,
1:45:48
Speaker 1: somebody's going to see a picture of me with a
1:45:51
Speaker 1: plastic water bottle and that will destroy everything. They will
1:45:55
Speaker 1: they will look, they will like finding that picture. Oh yeah,
1:45:57
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there's one out there, but yeah, I
1:46:00
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess With conservation, it's just been for me.
1:46:03
Speaker 1: It's been something that that I I believe in the
1:46:05
Speaker 1: work that organizations like you know, Trout Unlimited UM, and
1:46:09
Speaker 1: that's bring them up because that's one that I'm closely
1:46:12
Speaker 1: tied to. UM. I believe in the work that they're doing.
1:46:15
Speaker 1: And if there's some way that they think that I
1:46:18
Speaker 1: can help them, I let them sort of lead. I
1:46:21
Speaker 1: have ideas like that, how to talk about talking about
1:46:25
Speaker 1: climate change? What is an idea that I had, you know,
1:46:28
Speaker 1: because we had a conversation about well, what do you
1:46:30
Speaker 1: think you know? And I said, well, I mean, god,
1:46:32
Speaker 1: we can't even talk about it. Like I read a
1:46:34
Speaker 1: thread Chris Wood had mentioned climate change in an article.
1:46:37
Speaker 1: It's like fourteen paragraphs deep in an argue or in
1:46:40
Speaker 1: an article that has nothing to do with climate change,
1:46:44
Speaker 1: and I mean it was a thousand deep on people
1:46:46
Speaker 1: like ready to I am, I'm not going to be
1:46:49
Speaker 1: a member of Trout Unlimited anymore if this is the
1:46:51
Speaker 1: path you're going down and the conspiracy And I'm like,
1:46:54
Speaker 1: my god, did I read the whole article? I don't
1:46:56
Speaker 1: remember him talking about climate change at all? And that's
1:46:59
Speaker 1: all it took. Its sort goes back to your pejorative
1:47:02
Speaker 1: because a lot of people here that they hear the
1:47:07
Speaker 1: word climate change and they what they're they're saying to themselves,
1:47:13
Speaker 1: where is this headed in a regulatory sense? Right? Yeah?
1:47:18
Speaker 1: So where is this habited in a in a governmental sense?
1:47:21
Speaker 1: Where is this head in a sense of federal oversight?
1:47:23
Speaker 1: So they hear the word and they they're not they're
1:47:26
Speaker 1: not They're not untangling all the portions of the conversation.
1:47:32
Speaker 1: They're thinking about like where are what are the ways
1:47:35
Speaker 1: in which this is going to be leveraged? Two? What
1:47:39
Speaker 1: are the ways this is going to be leveraged to
1:47:41
Speaker 1: push the agenda of people who are like predisposed to
1:47:47
Speaker 1: already dislike certain industries, Like that's the that's what's going on?
1:47:52
Speaker 1: And that's why it's how that's why we don't know
1:47:54
Speaker 1: how to talk about how to talk about it. No,
1:47:56
Speaker 1: and I get that. I get it to it too
1:47:58
Speaker 1: fear thing of where it's going to go. But if
1:48:01
Speaker 1: if you focus on, well, if it's going to go
1:48:04
Speaker 1: a direction that maybe has a negative impact on you
1:48:09
Speaker 1: in some way, but a positive impact on the environment,
1:48:13
Speaker 1: and then that's a tough that's a tough thing to
1:48:16
Speaker 1: have to figure out with yourself, I guess. I mean,
1:48:20
Speaker 1: and I'm not in an industry that that any of
1:48:23
Speaker 1: this effects, and so I certainly come at it from
1:48:26
Speaker 1: a much easier place. I mean, my you know, I
1:48:29
Speaker 1: make videos. You know, I don't. I'm sure there are
1:48:35
Speaker 1: things that in the making of videos. I I burned
1:48:38
Speaker 1: the tip of a fly rod in one of my videos,
1:48:41
Speaker 1: and the Orbits had sent me a brand new like
1:48:45
Speaker 1: Helios three, and I set it in a fire and
1:48:47
Speaker 1: I burned about a two inch you know, portion of
1:48:51
Speaker 1: the tip of that fly rod. And I my god,
1:48:54
Speaker 1: I had a guy hate me. I was, I mean,
1:48:58
Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh god, uh, you know, and I mean
1:49:01
Speaker 1: he went off on me and there was an argument
1:49:04
Speaker 1: on the orvis you know, Facebook, and he had it
1:49:07
Speaker 1: posted on his page, and he had posted a big
1:49:09
Speaker 1: long thing on my thing about the fact that I
1:49:11
Speaker 1: was out burning certain types of resins and oh my god,
1:49:14
Speaker 1: I can't believe that you're I mean, this is the
1:49:17
Speaker 1: equivalent to burning half of the cap that would go
1:49:20
Speaker 1: on a milk jug and h he lost his mind. Um,
1:49:25
Speaker 1: And then every argument that he had was like, I mean,
1:49:28
Speaker 1: I get it. When I'm going up to do a
1:49:30
Speaker 1: river clean up, I'm gonna be burning fuel. And it
1:49:34
Speaker 1: couldn't be that when you're going up to drink beer
1:49:36
Speaker 1: with your friends. It was when you're going up to
1:49:38
Speaker 1: do a river clean up. And so it's stuff like
1:49:41
Speaker 1: that that always gives me like, you know, uh, Chris,
1:49:44
Speaker 1: you know, Chris from to you, it's an interesting things
1:49:46
Speaker 1: when we talked about the fact that it is both sides.
1:49:49
Speaker 1: That's the other thing. I mean, it's like, if you are,
1:49:52
Speaker 1: you know, coming these topics from this holier than now,
1:49:57
Speaker 1: you know, if you you know, if you're an environmental
1:50:00
Speaker 1: a confirmation is you know, and you come at it,
1:50:02
Speaker 1: you know, like at people that don't believe what you
1:50:06
Speaker 1: believe in a certain way, you're doing a big disservice
1:50:11
Speaker 1: to what you believe in I was at my brothers
1:50:14
Speaker 1: and he was I had my kids there and a
1:50:16
Speaker 1: bunch of other people there. And when he gets I
1:50:18
Speaker 1: can't remember what his threshold is, but at some threshold
1:50:20
Speaker 1: of dinner guests, he runs, uh, paper plates because he's
1:50:26
Speaker 1: just like he's like, at a point, I'm not gonna
1:50:28
Speaker 1: wash all these damn dishes. So if it's seven paper.
1:50:30
Speaker 1: But he didn't have paper, he had styre phone plates.
1:50:32
Speaker 1: And I overheard many people like basically try to take
1:50:37
Speaker 1: him to task. Yeah, for the styre foam plates. Yeah,
1:50:41
Speaker 1: he would be like, how did you get here? What
1:50:46
Speaker 1: was the mode of transportation used to get here? Because
1:50:49
Speaker 1: this plate wouldn't get you to the end of my driveway. Yeah,
1:50:55
Speaker 1: but it's funny. But then it brings up this other
1:50:58
Speaker 1: problem that people have their top of stuff is like
1:51:00
Speaker 1: the what about is um? Like, like, what about it?
1:51:04
Speaker 1: I could say, um, I might say whatever. Let's say
1:51:10
Speaker 1: you're having an argument with your spouse, right, like one
1:51:13
Speaker 1: one of the members of the marriage says, Oh, they
1:51:17
Speaker 1: come home, it's a week night, and they say why
1:51:20
Speaker 1: are they Why are the kids watching TV? Like they're
1:51:24
Speaker 1: not allowed to watch TV during the week And you
1:51:27
Speaker 1: go Uh, well, what about when? Right, So you're no
1:51:34
Speaker 1: longer talking about the thing, right, it's a it's a
1:51:37
Speaker 1: it's a conversation about purity. Yeah yeah, yeah, who's the
1:51:42
Speaker 1: better person? It's not like you've lost way track of
1:51:45
Speaker 1: what the gold is of not having them not watch anything?
1:51:48
Speaker 1: And so what what about is ms? They're frustrating because
1:51:52
Speaker 1: they're so true. Yeah, how did you get here? You
1:51:56
Speaker 1: didn't need to You didn't need to burn gas to
1:51:58
Speaker 1: come eat dinner at my house to tell me that
1:52:00
Speaker 1: I shouldn't use these plates? Yeah, why don't you eat
1:52:02
Speaker 1: at your own house and save on that fossil fuel? Yeah,
1:52:06
Speaker 1: we're we're not talking about the environment at this point.
1:52:08
Speaker 1: Now we're talking about a gallon of gas and some plates.
1:52:12
Speaker 1: But yeah, but it winds up being like it makes
1:52:14
Speaker 1: everything like what about is are hard because they make
1:52:18
Speaker 1: everything hard to talk about. But then they also are
1:52:21
Speaker 1: so stinging lye true. This guy was super mad because
1:52:25
Speaker 1: he said, I I not only had I burned that,
1:52:27
Speaker 1: but I'm adding uh to the waste, So this is
1:52:32
Speaker 1: now going to go to a landfill. He's very upset
1:52:34
Speaker 1: that to a landfill the tip so which you can't
1:52:39
Speaker 1: you know, it's burned, so you can't fix it. And
1:52:40
Speaker 1: so I told him, I said, as stupid as it sounds,
1:52:43
Speaker 1: we're actually framing the burned tip and and we're giving
1:52:47
Speaker 1: it away at at one of our shows, I said,
1:52:51
Speaker 1: And and beyond that, this was a rod that came
1:52:54
Speaker 1: from the returns department. So this wasn't an Actually they
1:52:58
Speaker 1: didn't just take it off the show often send me
1:53:00
Speaker 1: a rod to destroy. I mean they pulled something from
1:53:03
Speaker 1: the So I said, you know, this is act. It's
1:53:05
Speaker 1: actually not adding to the landfill. It's yeah, And and
1:53:11
Speaker 1: then he said, well what about Yes, it's of little
1:53:17
Speaker 1: consolation to me, is what he said. It's of little
1:53:21
Speaker 1: consolation to me that that is not going to I said, well,
1:53:23
Speaker 1: you're two what I said, you're two things where I
1:53:26
Speaker 1: burned plastic resin and that this is going to a landfill.
1:53:30
Speaker 1: I just told you one of those isn't even a thing,
1:53:33
Speaker 1: And it's a little consolation. It's half of your problem
1:53:36
Speaker 1: with me. Now, your whole problem with me has become
1:53:38
Speaker 1: this thing instead. Um, but yeah, it's I mean, I
1:53:42
Speaker 1: don't you know, I mean, this will probably end up
1:53:45
Speaker 1: solving this whole thing. To this video I'm talking about, Well,
1:53:48
Speaker 1: most likely solve this, this whole thing. The only thing
1:53:53
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about while I sit here is God, I
1:53:55
Speaker 1: gotta do more reason, I gotta read, I gotta do
1:53:57
Speaker 1: some research because I'm all, you play stuff back in
1:54:01
Speaker 1: your head about the part ground like I don't know
1:54:03
Speaker 1: she had about it. I'm just trying to make a video,
1:54:06
Speaker 1: h And I think, oh, I should probably know something,
1:54:09
Speaker 1: so anyway, so I would thanks, Thanks for now I've
1:54:12
Speaker 1: got homework. I'm glad I came at your show. We're
1:54:15
Speaker 1: going to do concluders and then people as part of
1:54:17
Speaker 1: your concluder. You can do the last concluder perfect as
1:54:20
Speaker 1: part of your concluder. Yeah, tell people the best way
1:54:23
Speaker 1: to go? Uh find you? Yeah? You because no one
1:54:27
Speaker 1: wants to find you. Find Patterson? Yeah, yeah, trust me.
1:54:30
Speaker 1: If I if you put on that reader board that
1:54:33
Speaker 1: you saw in Peekabu, Idaho, Travis Schwartz is gonna be here.
1:54:37
Speaker 1: Nobody else will show up. Hank Patterson, You've got fifteen
1:54:41
Speaker 1: people miles. What do you got? Uh? This conversation about
1:54:50
Speaker 1: conservation and cut ideas about conservation has me thinking about
1:54:53
Speaker 1: reasons why we do end up caring, and for me,
1:54:56
Speaker 1: it usually ends up seeing something that bugs me or
1:54:59
Speaker 1: bums me out, and I'm like, wow, I wish that
1:55:01
Speaker 1: wasn't that way. So we just got back from Santa
1:55:03
Speaker 1: Bell Island where we tried to do some fishing, but
1:55:06
Speaker 1: there weren't any fish to catch because you know, they
1:55:10
Speaker 1: all died. So just my my concluder is that I
1:55:13
Speaker 1: think I don't think that. I think that when a conservation,
1:55:16
Speaker 1: when we're talking about that, we're not talking about like
1:55:17
Speaker 1: some high minded ideal of of being selfless. We're talking
1:55:23
Speaker 1: about losing ship that we really really care about and
1:55:25
Speaker 1: impacts us on a very personal selfish level that we
1:55:28
Speaker 1: don't want to have to deal with. So I'm thinking
1:55:31
Speaker 1: about the selfishness aspect of conservation. That's my concluder. That's it.
1:55:37
Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, you gotta check with me if it's
1:55:40
Speaker 1: all right. I'm just letting you know. I'm putting a
1:55:42
Speaker 1: point on it. Yeah, chats do you have a day? John?
1:55:48
Speaker 1: I I I own a small video production company in Bois, Idaho,
1:55:54
Speaker 1: Patterson Videos that makes Hank Patterson videos and and super
1:55:58
Speaker 1: sweet corporate video as well. But right, she has you
1:56:02
Speaker 1: a little bit of serious stuff too. Yeah, yeah, mostly, Yeah,
1:56:05
Speaker 1: just for a corporate video stuff it pays, well, I don't. Yeah,
1:56:09
Speaker 1: you know, like a video for a company like you
1:56:11
Speaker 1: a packard or you know, a training man. I like
1:56:14
Speaker 1: these computers like yeah, yeah, it's like how do you
1:56:18
Speaker 1: use this printer? Well? Yeah, you push that button. Uh
1:56:21
Speaker 1: it's pretty I do get called a lot to try
1:56:24
Speaker 1: to make you know, really mundane corporate topics funny. And
1:56:30
Speaker 1: yeah I get that that phone call from time to time.
1:56:33
Speaker 1: Uh because I tell people, I said, if you want
1:56:36
Speaker 1: to make less money than a phishing guide, make videos
1:56:40
Speaker 1: about being a phishing guy. And uh, people are like,
1:56:44
Speaker 1: oh man, this st Patterson. You just killing it. No,
1:56:47
Speaker 1: I I Am not just killing Still want to hire
1:56:51
Speaker 1: you as a fishing guy. Yeah, I picked like the
1:56:53
Speaker 1: smallest angling sect to decide to make fun of. And
1:57:00
Speaker 1: but seriously, I think that Henry Patterson is going to
1:57:03
Speaker 1: be really into golf and so and that's how I'll
1:57:06
Speaker 1: retire is switching over to golf soon. Bigger audience, do
1:57:11
Speaker 1: you remember the comedian Tim Conway is that his name? Yeah,
1:57:15
Speaker 1: he recently passed away to Yeah you know he used
1:57:18
Speaker 1: to do that yeah, that thing where he put shoes
1:57:24
Speaker 1: on his knees. Very sensitive. Um, he's funny dude, Tim Conway. Yeah,
1:57:29
Speaker 1: we used to get quite a chuckle out of that. Yeah,
1:57:31
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you watch it now, I
1:57:32
Speaker 1: don't know if it holds up like Blazing Saddles. Yeah,
1:57:37
Speaker 1: are we surprised that's on Netflix. He might want to
1:57:40
Speaker 1: pull that down. I'm not sure it's holding up. How
1:57:45
Speaker 1: long have you been fly fishing? I've been fly fishing
1:57:48
Speaker 1: probably twenty five years at least, something like that. I'm
1:57:53
Speaker 1: forty nine years old. Were we doing the other years?
1:57:56
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, just drinking and you know stuff.
1:58:00
Speaker 1: I should have sent me to jail, but somehow I
1:58:02
Speaker 1: I avoided it. Were an outdoorsman I was. I do
1:58:05
Speaker 1: a lot of comedy, and uh, I toured theater. I
1:58:09
Speaker 1: was a Shakespeare actor for seven years. I heard, don't
1:58:14
Speaker 1: realize that. Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time
1:58:16
Speaker 1: in theater and and uh we did. Miles and me
1:58:19
Speaker 1: talked about that about why, you know, I think some
1:58:22
Speaker 1: funny fishing videos work and some don't. And I said,
1:58:25
Speaker 1: I think that I come at it as a comedian
1:58:28
Speaker 1: and and not a fly fisherman. I mean, so if
1:58:32
Speaker 1: I say, doth doth protest? And don't understand what I'm
1:58:37
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, I do that the bar if I
1:58:40
Speaker 1: say the bar I'm talking about Yeah, oh yeah yeah,
1:58:44
Speaker 1: who I mean? How good was I as he Shakespearean actor?
1:58:47
Speaker 1: I'm Hank Patterson. Now do a line, Hank Patterson. The
1:58:52
Speaker 1: King keepers here tonight, take the Queen coming out within
1:58:55
Speaker 1: his side for ober On his passing, fell and wrath.
1:58:57
Speaker 1: That that's a from that that movement Summer Nights Dream
1:59:01
Speaker 1: another good show. I was. I was not a great
1:59:04
Speaker 1: Shakespearean nect. I was probably okay at it? Who what
1:59:08
Speaker 1: kind of guys? Did you play the kings? No? No, no,
1:59:10
Speaker 1: I was like I was young, so I was. I
1:59:12
Speaker 1: was playing you know, smaller roles. I did have a
1:59:15
Speaker 1: role in a play called Spring Awakening one time, and
1:59:18
Speaker 1: and I was. I was featured in American Theater magazine.
1:59:24
Speaker 1: So that was my big claim to fame as a
1:59:26
Speaker 1: theater actor, which is all we read that American Theater
1:59:29
Speaker 1: is like, that's that's big theater. Yeah you thought fly
1:59:34
Speaker 1: Fishing was small? Yeah yeah, yeah, American Theater magazine. That's yeah.
1:59:38
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. You two are enough children's theater
1:59:41
Speaker 1: and you you decide not to do theater real fast.
1:59:44
Speaker 1: I Yeah, it was. Yeah, I did a lot of tours.
1:59:47
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm out, baby. What else? He's a generous
1:59:52
Speaker 1: concluding thoughts because a lot of times people take a
1:59:54
Speaker 1: concluding thought and they want to turn the spotlight inward.
1:59:57
Speaker 1: But Yanni that shine his his concluders are a spotlight
2:00:02
Speaker 1: that shines out upon the world. That's how ny is.
2:00:06
Speaker 1: It's nice. What do you got, Sam, Well, have a
2:00:11
Speaker 1: lot of trouble with my personal life. We'll wake at
2:00:15
Speaker 1: all about you. Well, I'll start out by making it
2:00:18
Speaker 1: about me. Um. I hope my attempt to play the
2:00:22
Speaker 1: devil's advocate about about methods of fly fishing h didn't
2:00:28
Speaker 1: come across as purest in any way. But I just
2:00:35
Speaker 1: want to I just want to say, get out fishing,
2:00:37
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how you do it, as long as it's legal,
2:00:39
Speaker 1: as long as you're having fun, and don't listen to
2:00:40
Speaker 1: anybody who says anything different. And I think that's the
2:00:44
Speaker 1: great value of of Hank and Travis here is that he,
2:00:48
Speaker 1: I think did more than anyone ever has to encourage
2:00:52
Speaker 1: people to just not take it so damn seriously and
2:00:55
Speaker 1: go have a good time, make fun of yourself, making
2:00:58
Speaker 1: fun of your friends and and enjoy the experience and
2:01:03
Speaker 1: just get out there. I'm I'm gonn hijack this because
2:01:07
Speaker 1: there's one other thing I want to ask I did
2:01:09
Speaker 1: a good job. I want to hear a story about
2:01:13
Speaker 1: about you being mistaken for Hank, about me being mistaken
2:01:19
Speaker 1: four right, because we we we recognize it as a character,
2:01:22
Speaker 1: but I'm sure that people come up to you all
2:01:24
Speaker 1: the time and to the Hank is an actual is
2:01:29
Speaker 1: not a character? Early? I mean, I don't get it
2:01:32
Speaker 1: as much, but I certainly like people when people started
2:01:37
Speaker 1: realizing that I am not Hank Patterson, that it's a
2:01:42
Speaker 1: character that I play in some videos, some people were
2:01:45
Speaker 1: very disappointed, you know, to to to learn that, because
2:01:48
Speaker 1: Travis is certainly nowhere near is entertaining uh as as
2:01:53
Speaker 1: Hank Patterson. So I've had that experience quite a bit actually,
2:01:56
Speaker 1: where people are like, wait what and it really blows
2:01:59
Speaker 1: their mind, which I think is I mean, is it
2:02:02
Speaker 1: new to you that people play characters and videos? It
2:02:05
Speaker 1: shouldn't be that big of I think, But but it's
2:02:08
Speaker 1: a it's a compliment really because I mean it's like,
2:02:11
Speaker 1: if you really believed this was an actual, you know person, uh,
2:02:17
Speaker 1: I guess that's a compliment to play it. Amazing acting ability,
2:02:22
Speaker 1: Shakespearean background coming through really nail. Yeah, yeah, it's very shakespeare.
2:02:26
Speaker 1: I'd like to make one plug I watched. I was
2:02:28
Speaker 1: doing some research for this podcast. I was watching YouTube
2:02:31
Speaker 1: videos and I watched the one about how to make
2:02:34
Speaker 1: a fly fishing video coming from production myself being a producer.
2:02:39
Speaker 1: I think you really hit the nail on the head.
2:02:42
Speaker 1: Yeah on that one. That one had me instead Hank
2:02:45
Speaker 1: Patterson on making Yes. Yeah, it's like all the things
2:02:48
Speaker 1: that you need to have in your fly fishing video
2:02:50
Speaker 1: to make it an award wing and it pretty and
2:02:53
Speaker 1: it just hits the nail on the head, coming through
2:02:58
Speaker 1: the water, a shot at somebody times in a fly,
2:03:02
Speaker 1: you know, and it's But I was worried because that
2:03:04
Speaker 1: also played at the film tour, and I was worried
2:03:08
Speaker 1: that the filmmakers would be pissed at me. They needed
2:03:12
Speaker 1: to like, those shots are in my video. They're in
2:03:17
Speaker 1: every video we're gonna watch tonight. So yeah, that was
2:03:20
Speaker 1: a but what else are you gonna show? It's fishing,
2:03:24
Speaker 1: here's my concluder. Yeah, that's the thing I wanted to
2:03:26
Speaker 1: talk about earlier. But I like talk about stuff that
2:03:29
Speaker 1: people write in about, And we were having a conversation
2:03:31
Speaker 1: about um, sort of the etiquette um when you tell
2:03:36
Speaker 1: someone your spot, you know, we talked about earlier, right
2:03:40
Speaker 1: with a guy. This guy wrote in that he says,
2:03:44
Speaker 1: he writes in arguing that you should never He's talking
2:03:49
Speaker 1: about like people are saying, when you're going out in
2:03:52
Speaker 1: the woods, you should tell someone where you are. So
2:03:54
Speaker 1: if there's an emergency, and people would be like most
2:03:57
Speaker 1: commonly obviously if you're married, you would tell one spouse,
2:04:00
Speaker 1: just let her know I'm at such and such trailhead
2:04:03
Speaker 1: or my tree stand out at Bob's farm. Whatever. Just solved.
2:04:05
Speaker 1: There's a problem. He says. You should never tell your
2:04:09
Speaker 1: wife where you are because if you go through a
2:04:14
Speaker 1: quote brutal divorce, she will then know all of your
2:04:17
Speaker 1: hunting spots and tell them to her next man. Oh yeah,
2:04:22
Speaker 1: this is a thing that he found dark. You know,
2:04:25
Speaker 1: well he's been through this, so just a little would
2:04:33
Speaker 1: he would never, He says, the one thing you did
2:04:36
Speaker 1: right was never tell her where he was going. This
2:04:41
Speaker 1: would have happened in divorce. In divorce, he doesn't need
2:04:44
Speaker 1: to worry about her betraying his hunting and fishing spots.
2:04:48
Speaker 1: He signs off with, always be careful who you share
2:04:52
Speaker 1: your spots with. Unwarranted, unwarranted too much. I if I
2:05:00
Speaker 1: wasn't looking to wrap her up, I would tell you,
2:05:02
Speaker 1: guys a story that curl your hair that has a
2:05:05
Speaker 1: lot to do with what that guy is saying, not
2:05:07
Speaker 1: the marriage part, but yeah, save it for next time part. Okay,
2:05:11
Speaker 1: you let you. Uh you know what, Can I make
2:05:13
Speaker 1: a request? Yeah? Can Hank Patterson give a closing thought,
2:05:16
Speaker 1: a concluder? Sure? Yeah, he does. He think fast. There's
2:05:19
Speaker 1: the only thing real slow when he's playing things out. No, no,
2:05:22
Speaker 1: no, no no, I mean Hank Patterson would say, what what
2:05:24
Speaker 1: an absolute honor for all of you guys to have
2:05:28
Speaker 1: me here? And uh, I I had imagine, you know,
2:05:33
Speaker 1: if you've got somebody like I don't know employed around
2:05:37
Speaker 1: here that like watches the numbers, that this will probably
2:05:40
Speaker 1: be uh your biggest episode ever. And so you're welcome
2:05:44
Speaker 1: for me being here, um my podcast, Hank Patterson's Outdoor Misadventures. Uh,
2:05:50
Speaker 1: there's not much a larger show, bigger audience, and uh
2:05:53
Speaker 1: we don't put half the amount of effort and work
2:05:56
Speaker 1: into it that you guys do. And yet somehow, somehow
2:05:59
Speaker 1: where that much better. Um so, and I would I
2:06:02
Speaker 1: would invite any of you to come and be on
2:06:04
Speaker 1: Hank Patterson's Outdoor Misadventures podcast. Uh if I thought that
2:06:09
Speaker 1: that you could keep up. But uh, you know, if
2:06:11
Speaker 1: you keep at this, if you keep plugging away at
2:06:14
Speaker 1: the treat eater thing or whatever you guys are doing here,
2:06:18
Speaker 1: keep plugging away, and in a couple of years, when
2:06:21
Speaker 1: you've got the sort of shops that I have, I'd
2:06:23
Speaker 1: love to have you guys come and maybe like intern
2:06:25
Speaker 1: for me or something like that. That'd be fantastic. Uh.
2:06:30
Speaker 1: Travis would say that I appreciate being here, and uh,
2:06:35
Speaker 1: my concluder, my my takeaway is that I think it's
2:06:39
Speaker 1: super cool that you guys talk to me for so
2:06:41
Speaker 1: long about real recovery and the work that we do. Uh.
2:06:45
Speaker 1: And I think, uh, I will walk away from this
2:06:48
Speaker 1: realizing that every time I get in a conversation about conservation,
2:06:53
Speaker 1: I realized that I'm copying out a little bit by
2:06:56
Speaker 1: not doing a little bit more research and not educating
2:06:59
Speaker 1: myself better, and I get myself in the weeds. And
2:07:01
Speaker 1: so I actually will do a little bit more of that. Um,
2:07:05
Speaker 1: not until after I make my video about how to
2:07:07
Speaker 1: have a conversation about it, because I want to go
2:07:09
Speaker 1: into that freshly knowing absolutely nothing. But no, thanks for
2:07:15
Speaker 1: having me. People can find me at Hank Patterson dot
2:07:18
Speaker 1: com or you can find my new podcast, which is
2:07:22
Speaker 1: an absolute hot mess. Uh Hank Patterson's After our Misadventures
2:07:27
Speaker 1: and some people like it and some people won't. They
2:07:30
Speaker 1: can drive from catch them to Bolman. Yeah, watching out
2:07:34
Speaker 1: the left hand window. Yeah yeah, and you'll see see him.
2:07:38
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'll be there. I'll be around hitching her hide.
2:07:45
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks for coming on man. Thanks. One of
2:08:10
Speaker 1: the reasons I like all you listeners is that when
2:08:13
Speaker 1: we really lean on you and call for you to
2:08:15
Speaker 1: do something, you do it. Um. Everybody got behind our
2:08:18
Speaker 1: cookbook so hardcore that it came out of the gate
2:08:22
Speaker 1: as a best seller on all kinds of best seller lists.
2:08:25
Speaker 1: It's done phenomenally. Well, well, I'm here to lean on
2:08:27
Speaker 1: you again because I would love for you guys to
2:08:30
Speaker 1: see our new documentary film Stars in the Sky. We've
2:08:34
Speaker 1: been talking about it on and off for a long time.
2:08:38
Speaker 1: Now it comes up in this podcast. People are like, hey, man,
2:08:40
Speaker 1: we happened to the documentary? Well, it's here Now, there's
2:08:44
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the film that you know
2:08:46
Speaker 1: from the podcast, Joe Rogan, Robert Abernathy, Doug during buck Bowden,
2:08:53
Speaker 1: and on and on. It is Stars in the Sky
2:08:57
Speaker 1: and you will find it at Stars in the Sky
2:09:00
Speaker 1: film dot com. Available for purchase, streaming, or download again
2:09:06
Speaker 1: Stars in the Sky film dot com