Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth drops baby off with fiance and disappears

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Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth drops baby off with fiance and disappears · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:49
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. I still know somebody knows where
1:57
Speaker 1: she's at. Somebody has seen her. There's more information out there.
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Speaker 1: Somebody just needs to realize, to recognize, than to say something.
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Speaker 1: Has she ever disappeared before? No? No, I can't think
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Speaker 1: of anywhere she's ever gone that. She hasn't told me that.
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Speaker 1: It's just not in her character to just take off
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Speaker 1: and be gone. Thanksgiving is the last known time Kelsey
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Speaker 1: Barrett was seen in public. It was at this Safeway
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Speaker 1: store where she was captured by the store security cameras.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Barrett says she spoke with Kelsey by phone that
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Speaker 1: day twice. What did you talk about that day? Oh,
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Speaker 1: it's just small things. And initially she needed a recipe.
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Speaker 1: Based on that conversation, there was nothing to make you
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Speaker 1: believe there is anything wrong exactly. Yeah, her voice was fine,
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Speaker 1: she was, Yeah, she was It was a normal day
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Speaker 1: for her. Where is a missing mom? Kelsey Barrett? The
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Speaker 1: search intensifies as the mystery deepens right now, talk talk,
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Speaker 1: every hour counts. There is a chance she can still
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Speaker 1: be brought back alive. I mean, see Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Joining me,
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Speaker 1: Ash Wilcot, judge lawyer, you can find her Ash Wilcott
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Speaker 1: dot com. Karen Smith, forensics expert, joining us out of
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Speaker 1: the Florida jurisdiction, forensics psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober and joining
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Speaker 1: me right now. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Ellen
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Speaker 1: kill Lauren, Let's start at the beginning. What happened to Chelsea?
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Speaker 1: Tell me everything's giving the beginning of the crime line,
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Speaker 1: the timeline, Ellen, because that's what's so important. Kelsey disappeared
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Speaker 1: on November twenty second, which is Thanksgiving Day. We know
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Speaker 1: that on that day she went to a Safeway supermarket
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Speaker 1: near her home in Woodland Park, Colorado. She had her
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Speaker 1: one year old daughter with her. There. After that, she
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Speaker 1: met with her fiance, Patrick Frazy, who she doesn't live with,
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Speaker 1: and handed off her daughter. She has not seen since,
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Speaker 1: the only time that she's been heard from. Two messages
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Speaker 1: were sent from her cell phone on Monday, November twenty fifth.
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Speaker 1: Excuse me. One was to her fiance and we don't
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Speaker 1: know what that message said. And another was to her employer,
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Speaker 1: Doss Aviation, where she worked as a who what what what?
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Speaker 1: White white? Alan Kilauren crime online dot com? Are you
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Speaker 1: telling me she actually spoke verbally to her employer or
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Speaker 1: text to her emails? It was a text? It was
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Speaker 1: a text message sent from her phone. Okay, and wait,
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Speaker 1: I thought you said she the last person she spoke
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Speaker 1: to was the fiance and the employer. They were both
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Speaker 1: text messages, So she spoke to nobody. Say that she
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Speaker 1: spoke to nobody other than her mother that previously. The
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Speaker 1: last voice conversation that her mother had with her was
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Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving Day, and she saw her fiance and in
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Speaker 1: person later that day. So the last person she actually
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Speaker 1: spoke with her mother several days before she goes missing.
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Speaker 1: Ellen Kiloren, My dear, sweet precious snowflake, Ellen, you know what?
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Speaker 1: Let me? Karen Smith? Why do I always have to
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Speaker 1: be the bad guy? Can you explain to Ellen why
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Speaker 1: every word counts? It's very important. Did she speak to
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Speaker 1: somebody the day she goes missing? Or was it a
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Speaker 1: text from her phone? Which guess what, nobody can find
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Speaker 1: Karen's school. My dear Ellen, killorin I don't think I
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Speaker 1: need to school Ellen, but I'll tell you what. Or
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Speaker 1: you may need to take her to the woodshed. Having
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Speaker 1: text messages rather than a vocal call. I mean, come on,
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Speaker 1: this is this is law enforcement in forensics. One oh one.
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Speaker 1: A text message can be sent by anybody who has
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Speaker 1: access to that phone if it's not pass code enforced.
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Speaker 1: If you have a thumb prince that actually you have
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Speaker 1: access to because you put your thumb print on that
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Speaker 1: phone when it was unlocked at some point, it's not
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Speaker 1: that difficult anymore. So if it's only text messages, we
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Speaker 1: don't know who sent them. They're going to have to
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Speaker 1: go into that phone once they find it and figure
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Speaker 1: out where those text messages were actually sent from. And
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Speaker 1: that leads me to another forensic point. Hold on, Ashley Willcott,
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Speaker 1: I know you're chomping at the bit, Doctor Daniel Bober,
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Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist. Let's go into the mind of someone that
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Speaker 1: would get rid of Chelsea, a mother of a little
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Speaker 1: baby girl. Okay, get rid of her, and then this
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Speaker 1: is my question, think to use her phone to cover
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Speaker 1: their tracks and text the boyfriend, the fiance, text the
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Speaker 1: employer and go oh I'm taking a week off. That's
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Speaker 1: a whole another animal from somebody flying off the handle
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Speaker 1: and getting mad at a bar and go, you took
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Speaker 1: my money, Bam, you're dead, versus killing somebody, disposing of
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Speaker 1: the body and then making all these her uptitious texts
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Speaker 1: and you know, emails to cover your tracks. That's a
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Speaker 1: whole different way of thinking, doctor Bober. I agree, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: it's on a whole it's on a whole different level.
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Speaker 1: But like your previous guests said, those text messages, you know,
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Speaker 1: are going to be valuable because with text messages unlike
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Speaker 1: with vocal communication, uh, you know, there are is going
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Speaker 1: to be the the amount of texting, the words that
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Speaker 1: we're actually used, and you know, people that are familiar
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Speaker 1: with her are going to know the way that she communicates.
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Speaker 1: And so there's I think a treasure trove of information
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Speaker 1: potentially there in those text messages. Okay, Alan colorin a
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Speaker 1: are you embarrassed because I'm embarrassed for you. I am. Okay,
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Speaker 1: good now that you've been totally publicly shamed, UM, now
7:45
Speaker 1: I need some facts from you. Um it's really important
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Speaker 1: and I'm kidding around tiny bit, but it really is crucial.
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Speaker 1: It's crucial when you're trying to establish the timeline, which
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Speaker 1: is where everything starts. Every investigation starts with a timeline
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Speaker 1: and the forensics around that timeline. So let's talk about these.
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Speaker 1: The last time she was seeing was how many days
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Speaker 1: before she was reported missing? Ten days? Okay, just give
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Speaker 1: me short brief answers. So we got ten days, darn,
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Speaker 1: it's a long time. Now into that ten days. When
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Speaker 1: did the texts come in? Number one? And were they pinged?
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Speaker 1: And if so? From where? The text came in? On
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Speaker 1: November twenty fifth, which is three days after she was
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Speaker 1: last seeing. Okay, so hold on. Jackie's editing this. The
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Speaker 1: text came in three days after she went missing. Okay,
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Speaker 1: got it. Three days after she went missing. She texts
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Speaker 1: fiance and employer. Is that correct? Ellen? That's right? So
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Speaker 1: both of them were texted in one day. That's right.
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Speaker 1: Interesting day. Her phone was pinged in Idaho, about six
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Speaker 1: hundred miles away from where she lived. But authorities have
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Speaker 1: said they can't confirm that she was actually with her
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Speaker 1: phone at the time, but they can confirm that ping.
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Speaker 1: We know that the ping is correct. Yes, Okay, joining
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Speaker 1: me right now, Judge Lawyer Ashley Wilcot Ashley weigh in
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Speaker 1: on what we have ferreted out so far. Well, you know,
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Speaker 1: I do have a lot to say about this Nancy.
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Speaker 1: So here's the thing. We don't know what happened to her.
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Speaker 1: Best case, she decided to take off, God willing, God hoping,
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Speaker 1: because that would mean she's Ashley Ashley. Ashley, Ashley, you
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Speaker 1: know how I feel about you and your family and
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Speaker 1: your great great great great grandparents that came over on
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Speaker 1: the Mayflower. But Ashley, how can you even fix your
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Speaker 1: mouth to say that maybe she went away? This girl
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Speaker 1: is no idiot. She's a flight instructor, isn't that right,
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Speaker 1: Ellen Kilaurin. She's a flying instructor. That's great. I mean
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Speaker 1: this woman can get up in a plane and fly
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Speaker 1: around it teach other people. She's no idget. But she
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Speaker 1: loses her phone, Well maybe maybe she had some freak
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Speaker 1: out of it. I need to take a little break,
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Speaker 1: that's my prayer. Okay, So go back to the reality.
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Speaker 1: Why why, Ashley, I'm back on you. I'm on you
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Speaker 1: like a cheap suit a girl that wants to break. Okay,
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Speaker 1: this is let's look at what we know, and I
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Speaker 1: may have to go back to the shrink on this one,
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Speaker 1: Ashley will caught. A woman that's calling her mom for
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Speaker 1: a recipe is not a woman who's gonna leave her
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Speaker 1: mom hanging out in the wind, doesn't know where you
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Speaker 1: are that worried sick about you not taking care of
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Speaker 1: your baby girl. No, I mean you see the dichotomy there, right,
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Speaker 1: Like I call my mother, I call Miss Talbert from
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Speaker 1: my little Methodist church, and making various people for recipes, okay,
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Speaker 1: because I love them and their knowledge means something to me.
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Speaker 1: Those are the people you love that you call for recipes, Ashley. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So now Nancy's embarrassed me because you're right, I'm so happy.
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Speaker 1: I how so much misery today. Go ahead. So here's
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Speaker 1: the thing about the texts on the phone and not
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Speaker 1: knowing if the bones with her. We see it all
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Speaker 1: so regrettably, someone could easily think, oh, I'm just gonna
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Speaker 1: text this person and this person or text the boyfriend
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Speaker 1: so they think she's fine and that gives me more
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Speaker 1: time with her. Because we don't know if she's dead,
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Speaker 1: if she's been abducted and she's being held somewhere, or
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Speaker 1: so I it is not outside the realm of possibilities. Well,
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Speaker 1: let me give you all something to think about. And mal,
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Speaker 1: why did the fiance put up a stink about giving DNA.
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Speaker 1: Kelsey's fiance, Patrick Frazy, told police he last saw her
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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving afternoon, when he picked up their daughter. Kelsey was
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Speaker 1: not reported missing until ten days later by her mother.
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Speaker 1: Patrick has done everything that he has been asked for
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Speaker 1: by law enforcement. Jeremy Lowe, Patrick Frazy's attorney, says his
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Speaker 1: client has been interviewed by law enforcement, voluntarily released his
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Speaker 1: phone to be searched by investigators, and provided photographs along
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Speaker 1: with cheek swabs for DNA. Police have said Phrasey is cooperating.
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Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that he is a suspect,
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Speaker 1: and the police have not isolated him as a suspect
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Speaker 1: in this case. Phrasey and Barett do not live together,
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Speaker 1: but Barrett's mother says their bond is strong. The relationship
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Speaker 1: has been good, they're loving. She remains hopeful her daughter
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Speaker 1: will be found. The speculation hasn't been helpful. Don't try
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Speaker 1: to figure this out. We've got people trying to do that.
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Speaker 1: Just share the photo. There's more important things to be done.
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Speaker 1: At this point, police say the case remains a missing
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Speaker 1: person's investigation. In the back of my mind, shure, there's
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Speaker 1: a possibility something else could have happened, But it does
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Speaker 1: mean no good to go down that road, and I
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Speaker 1: don't think it does Kelsey any good either. Twenty nine
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Speaker 1: year old Kelsey Beareth has not been seen since she
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Speaker 1: was recorded on surveillance cameras in a grocery store in
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Speaker 1: Woodland Park, Colorado with her baby daughter. Her fiance, Patrick Frazie,
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Speaker 1: tells that she dropped the baby off after that grocery
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Speaker 1: store trip, and he has not seen or heard from
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Speaker 1: her since now. The two have never lived together, despite
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Speaker 1: being engaged in sharing a daughter. Interesting The fiance was
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Speaker 1: not present at a press conference and has been scrutinized
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Speaker 1: on social media for refusing to speak openly about missing Chelsea,
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Speaker 1: But despite that scrutiny, her mother says they had a
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Speaker 1: very good relationship. Straight out to Ellen Colauria and Crime
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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, Ellen, what do you tell
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Speaker 1: me about the fiance, because that is where every timeline starts,
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Speaker 1: the last time someone was seen or spoke spoken to verbally,
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Speaker 1: not by text or email. Tell me about the fiance.
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Speaker 1: That's right, he was the last person and to see her.
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Speaker 1: And we know that he was not the person who
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Speaker 1: contacted police, his lawyer, and he's been with her daughter.
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Speaker 1: His lawyer has a released his statement and says that
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Speaker 1: he is now cooperating with police. He did give a
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Speaker 1: DNA swab of his mouth, he did hand over his phone,
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Speaker 1: but he did not attend a press conference earlier this
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Speaker 1: week where her mother did attendance and spoke and begged
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Speaker 1: for her daughter's return. His lawyer claims that Patrick didn't
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Speaker 1: know about the press conference until an hour before it began,
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Speaker 1: Otherwise he would have been there and our word to
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Speaker 1: the media, that's what That's what the lawyer said. Kelsey
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Speaker 1: Bressed twenty nine has not been spot assuments gross she
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Speaker 1: stopping with her baby Woodland Park, Colorado. Fiance tells cops
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Speaker 1: she dropped the baby off afterwards at his home. Has
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Speaker 1: not been saying since her phone pinged about seven hundred
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Speaker 1: miles away from where she was last seen three days later.
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Speaker 1: Now does that make sense to you, Karen Smith, forensics experts,
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Speaker 1: seven hundred miles in three days? Does that make sense?
15:05
Speaker 1: It can be done, well, sure it can be done,
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Speaker 1: but none of it makes sense to me. Nancy who.
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Speaker 1: First of all, if my fiance had gone missing, I
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Speaker 1: would be freaking out after three hours. First of all,
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Speaker 1: ten days, ten days she was reported missing ten days
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Speaker 1: later and the cell phone things seven hundred miles away.
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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? I would be all over the press.
15:26
Speaker 1: I would be in front of every camera that would
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Speaker 1: put my face on television. I would be talking to
15:30
Speaker 1: everyone and anyone if I had nothing to do with this.
15:33
Speaker 1: Ten days is a long time to pass, Ashley, Well,
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Speaker 1: kind I'm looking at the video right now. She comes
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Speaker 1: in the front of the grocery store. She's carrying the
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Speaker 1: baby in a car seat. Oh, it looks just like
15:45
Speaker 1: the ones I would carry the twins in double fisted.
15:48
Speaker 1: She puts the car seat in the front of a
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Speaker 1: cart with the baby facing her, you know that top area,
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Speaker 1: and then she drives off. She's got on a coat,
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Speaker 1: her hairs back in a bun, and the baby is
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Speaker 1: all bundled up. All right, So what do we know
16:04
Speaker 1: about him originally not giving DNA Because at this juncture,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, he has done interviews, he has released his
16:13
Speaker 1: phone to be searched, He's given given buckle swabs, which
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Speaker 1: is you know, a mouth swab and photographs. On the
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Speaker 1: other hand, Ashley, I guess his lawyer said, look, if
16:23
Speaker 1: you don't give it to them willingly, they can get
16:25
Speaker 1: a warrant from you and take it from you. Right,
16:29
Speaker 1: That's what the lawyer is going to advise him. But
16:31
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, why get a lawyer in
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Speaker 1: the first place if you're not involved in second ten days?
16:36
Speaker 1: I agree with your guests ten days. Who waits ten
16:39
Speaker 1: days to figure out where somebody is, especially the mother
16:42
Speaker 1: of your one year old? You know. He also the
16:45
Speaker 1: lawyer says that what does this mean to you, doctor
16:48
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, you're the forensic psychiatrist. The lawyer has added
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Speaker 1: that the fiance for Ze will not speak publicly because
16:56
Speaker 1: he does not want to quote impede the police investigation. Yeah,
17:03
Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy, a lot of this stuff is not depositive,
17:05
Speaker 1: but it's certainly very suspicious. I mean, he's sort of
17:08
Speaker 1: reluctantly cooperating and sort of has to be dragged to
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Speaker 1: do it. So that's definitely concerning, and it seems like
17:15
Speaker 1: he definitely has something to hide, although again it's not despositive. Well,
17:19
Speaker 1: I agree with you because let me go to you
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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot. When the chief of police there at Wideland Park,
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Speaker 1: Chief Miles de Young was asked at the press conference
17:30
Speaker 1: about the fiance not being there, he simply said, you'd
17:35
Speaker 1: have to ask him, okay to see. I can read
17:39
Speaker 1: a lot into that response, Ashley. Absolutely, he's not cooperating,
17:43
Speaker 1: and it sounds like law enforcements frustrated because where most
17:46
Speaker 1: people who have a missing person in their life do
17:48
Speaker 1: anything and everything they can and give law enforcement every
17:51
Speaker 1: shred of everything they need. The boyfriend is not doing that.
17:54
Speaker 1: The fiance is not cooperating, So I think it does
17:58
Speaker 1: indicate something a miss Now, the brother Clinton Bareth said
18:04
Speaker 1: that he realized she was missing and he goes to
18:07
Speaker 1: her home and what the brother Clint Beareth says is
18:10
Speaker 1: the only thing missing from the home was her pocketbook,
18:13
Speaker 1: her luggage, her makeup, all untouched in her two vehicles
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Speaker 1: are still at the home. Ellen Colaurin, you left that
18:21
Speaker 1: little detail out. Both her cars are at the house,
18:24
Speaker 1: her luggage, her makeup, all that. The only thing missing
18:27
Speaker 1: is her pocketbook, which I'd like to point out she
18:30
Speaker 1: had with her when she was at the grocery store.
18:34
Speaker 1: That's great, and not only was all of that stuff
18:37
Speaker 1: left behind, but there was also some cinnamon roles that
18:42
Speaker 1: she had clearly just speaked that day that by the
18:45
Speaker 1: time they got there they were cold, but she was
18:47
Speaker 1: speaking in her kitchen, and it looks like she just
18:50
Speaker 1: pulled out the roles to cool and had every intention
18:53
Speaker 1: of coming back. There are absolutely no signs in the
18:55
Speaker 1: home that she was planning on going away for any
18:58
Speaker 1: amount of time. Take a listen to our friends Inside
19:02
Speaker 1: Edition reporting on Kelsey barrette disappearance. Guys the tipline seven
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Speaker 1: one six, six, eight, seven, nine two six two seven
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Speaker 1: one six six eight seven nine two six two another
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Speaker 1: number seven one nine six four seven five nine nine
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Speaker 1: nine seven one nine six four seven five nine nine nine.
19:24
Speaker 1: This little baby deserves to be with mommy. On Christmas Morning, Listen,
19:31
Speaker 1: we talked just Thanksgiving morning. A mother of missing Kelsey
19:35
Speaker 1: Barrett shares more of what happened on the last day
19:38
Speaker 1: she saw her daughter. This is video of what police
19:41
Speaker 1: believe is one of the last times she was seen.
19:44
Speaker 1: Here she is walking into a safeweight grocery store near
19:47
Speaker 1: her town in Colorado with her one year old daughter.
19:50
Speaker 1: Cheryl Barrett speaks with CBS News. Did she sounds normal?
19:55
Speaker 1: Did she sounds definitely? She sounded happy. A few days
19:58
Speaker 1: after her disappearance, detect say a text message was sent
20:01
Speaker 1: from her phone to her employer saying she would not
20:04
Speaker 1: be showing up to work. The following week, another text
20:08
Speaker 1: was set to her fiance. Cell phone tower data indicates
20:11
Speaker 1: the phone was hundreds of miles away outside Gooding, Idaho,
20:15
Speaker 1: But investigators have not found there. Are there? It just
20:19
Speaker 1: makes no sense. I guess it just makes no sense
20:21
Speaker 1: that we can't find her. I have to keep looking. Hi,
20:29
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Speaker 1: slash Nancy right away to start searching truthfinder dot com
21:29
Speaker 1: forward slash Nancy truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy Find
21:36
Speaker 1: the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. I would like
21:48
Speaker 1: let me know if you need you need to take
21:49
Speaker 1: kicking your dope depointment because you're not feeling well. And
21:51
Speaker 1: I have called in Texas, i'ncome to our house. You're
21:54
Speaker 1: not answering the doors. She's not responding. I think of
21:56
Speaker 1: your phone call. That's an overfund reach out for none
21:58
Speaker 1: of us commared hers on for us. They were two
22:00
Speaker 1: whole girls in victory and four. I mean, there's no
22:03
Speaker 1: movement in the house footsoever. And he says that she
22:06
Speaker 1: didn't take them Big Karen was going to go on
22:07
Speaker 1: a play date. But they're both in her seats in
22:09
Speaker 1: the car. Her cars here. But I went to the
22:11
Speaker 1: doctor's office because I then used them as bombers. And
22:14
Speaker 1: I said, I know you can't give me both things
22:16
Speaker 1: because of Hippa, but can you just tell me if
22:17
Speaker 1: she showed up at her appointments this morning, and the
22:19
Speaker 1: lady was like, no, she did, note okay, and that
22:22
Speaker 1: that's unusual behavior of behavior for her to not show
22:25
Speaker 1: up her rectorgrenments. No, she I knew pregnancy, like she's
22:29
Speaker 1: so excited and then got ly invited from her husband
22:32
Speaker 1: that he wanted the free a week ago. And I
22:35
Speaker 1: didn't think of christ yet because famous Chris Watch. It
22:38
Speaker 1: was a friend, not Chris Watts that called police to
22:41
Speaker 1: make that nine one one emergency call. A friend off
22:46
Speaker 1: Shenanne Watts. And notice she's saying that Shanane has left
22:51
Speaker 1: her car at home with the car seats in it,
22:55
Speaker 1: which is critical in this case because Sananne would not
22:58
Speaker 1: go anywhere. She was gone, the children were gone, but
23:00
Speaker 1: the car seats were in the car. That's a big
23:04
Speaker 1: giveaway that somewhere she's got the two little girls, Bella
23:08
Speaker 1: and Celeste with her. I Nancy Graves this his crime stories,
23:11
Speaker 1: and we are sifting through the facts as we know them.
23:14
Speaker 1: Anything could happen in the Chris Watts case. Anything. We
23:19
Speaker 1: now know that Chris Watts, as we suspected, murdered his
23:22
Speaker 1: beautiful wife, Chanane, their daughters Bella and Celeste asas three
23:28
Speaker 1: and four, and their unborn child, Nico, fifteen weeks along.
23:33
Speaker 1: But why was there a sign? Was there a red flag?
23:36
Speaker 1: Is there anyway Chananne could have saved her a life
23:39
Speaker 1: and the two lives of her children. We now have
23:43
Speaker 1: obtained details about the recovery of the three bodies, the
23:47
Speaker 1: four bodies. Chanane had given birth to baby Nico fifteen
23:54
Speaker 1: weeks along. He was delivered into her underwear and found
24:01
Speaker 1: in the shallow grave. It's called coffin birth when the
24:05
Speaker 1: uterus prolapses and the child the uters can no longer
24:11
Speaker 1: hold the child in. The children were found Bella and Celeste,
24:15
Speaker 1: and I want you to brace yourself if you don't
24:17
Speaker 1: already know these facts, stuffed literally stuffed with injured bones
24:26
Speaker 1: to do it, into oil canisters whose openings are only
24:33
Speaker 1: eight inches in diameter. Those children's bodies were stuffed into
24:38
Speaker 1: the oil canisters. When the workers tried to get in,
24:44
Speaker 1: they had to drain the huge drums, the big big
24:49
Speaker 1: and they were going in and out in hazmat suits.
24:52
Speaker 1: They could only stay in one or two minutes at
24:53
Speaker 1: a time. They looked in and they saw in one
24:57
Speaker 1: of the canisters a little girl in the corner, face down,
25:03
Speaker 1: slumped over in the corner, and when they tried to
25:06
Speaker 1: pull her out again, embrace yourself, they said that she
25:12
Speaker 1: deep gloved. That is a euphemism that is putting perfume
25:18
Speaker 1: on the pig. What that means is when they grasped
25:23
Speaker 1: her hand her arm to lift her up, her skin
25:28
Speaker 1: slid off her body. It happened to both little girls
25:34
Speaker 1: different parts of their bodies where they would try to
25:36
Speaker 1: pick up the little girls and their skin would just
25:39
Speaker 1: come off. Meanwhile, Chris Watts's bragging to police about you
25:47
Speaker 1: know how much weight he's lost, and we find out
25:49
Speaker 1: about multiple lovers and the double life he was leading
25:52
Speaker 1: all along with me, Ellen Colora and Crime Online dot
25:56
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Alexis Tourez, Chuck Radar Online dot Com
26:00
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist, North Carolina
26:05
Speaker 1: family and divorced a lawyer, a veteran courtroom gladiator, Kathleen Murphy,
26:11
Speaker 1: and special guest Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State
26:16
Speaker 1: University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
26:22
Speaker 1: Straight Out to ellenclaurin Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.
26:27
Speaker 1: She and alexis breaking so much news in this case.
26:31
Speaker 1: You know, at any moment, I fully believe that Chris
26:35
Speaker 1: Watts is so volatile and his parents are still standing
26:39
Speaker 1: behind him, and I would not be surprised if at
26:43
Speaker 1: some juncture Chris Watts tries to contest his guilty plea,
26:49
Speaker 1: be careful what you ask, my dear, for you will
26:51
Speaker 1: surely get it. He could get a trial if a
26:54
Speaker 1: judge went along with that, and I believe the state
26:58
Speaker 1: would seek the death penalty on him. But Ellen Colorin,
27:01
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you. What is a new
27:04
Speaker 1: evidence you've discovered. Well, as we heard in the nine
27:07
Speaker 1: one one call, I think that one very important thing
27:09
Speaker 1: here is even though people on Chris watt side of things,
27:12
Speaker 1: including his family, will say he was the best guy ever,
27:15
Speaker 1: he was the greatest guy ever. Sandan's friends knew that
27:19
Speaker 1: something was up, and they knew it pretty quickly. He
27:22
Speaker 1: claimed that Shannon's went on a playdate and brought her
27:25
Speaker 1: two daughters, But as her friend says in the nine
27:27
Speaker 1: one one call, the car seats are still in the
27:29
Speaker 1: back of the car. Another friend, Cassie, who's among several
27:33
Speaker 1: people who are frantically looking for Shannon Watts that morning,
27:36
Speaker 1: says to Chris, where are you get over to your house?
27:39
Speaker 1: Or I'm going to call the police. The police are
27:41
Speaker 1: going to bust down your door. And Chris said to her,
27:43
Speaker 1: don't call the police. But fortunately Nicole Atkinson did call
27:47
Speaker 1: the police and they were there waiting for him. No
27:50
Speaker 1: matter what Chris Watts tries to claim or tried to
27:54
Speaker 1: claim about how his daughters were killed, one thing say
28:00
Speaker 1: undisputed the fact that he put those bodies into a
28:04
Speaker 1: tiny little aid in space. And when he first confesses
28:09
Speaker 1: to investigators about how he disposed of them, they can't
28:14
Speaker 1: believe it. They are incredulous that he was able to
28:17
Speaker 1: get those bodies in there. And the first investigators to
28:21
Speaker 1: go out to the scene saw that there was hair
28:23
Speaker 1: on the opening to one of those oil tanks, but
28:26
Speaker 1: Chris Wats insisted it was no trouble at all. It
28:29
Speaker 1: was easy. There's no way that's true, and that tells
28:32
Speaker 1: you everything about what you need about what kind of
28:35
Speaker 1: person Chris was at that time. Alexis Treschuk way in
28:39
Speaker 1: on what we have learned not only from this novel
28:41
Speaker 1: One Call, but from the text that Ellen and you
28:44
Speaker 1: have managed to obtain. So Nan was texting with her friends.
28:48
Speaker 1: She was gone on a business trip the weekend before
28:51
Speaker 1: she was murdered, and she was telling them that she
28:54
Speaker 1: was afraid her marriage over, that there was nothing that
28:57
Speaker 1: she was going to be able to do to fix it.
28:58
Speaker 1: She had fallen out of love with her. He wasn't
29:01
Speaker 1: physical with her when they were on vacation together. There
29:03
Speaker 1: was and she just said, I'm afraid there's nothing I
29:05
Speaker 1: can do. And she was in a panic. This is
29:08
Speaker 1: her marriage, that had been years, they'd been together forever,
29:10
Speaker 1: they two children, one on the way, and all of
29:12
Speaker 1: a sudden, on the turn of a dime, he had
29:15
Speaker 1: stopped loving her and stop being affectionate. She was frantically
29:18
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what she could do, and that's
29:20
Speaker 1: what the text messages show. They show she says, well,
29:23
Speaker 1: what if there's nothing I can do? What if this
29:25
Speaker 1: is really really over? I'm that a lot. I don't
29:30
Speaker 1: know what to do. And her friends were writing back
29:32
Speaker 1: and saying there must be an explanation because they'd all
29:34
Speaker 1: seen their wonderful relationship. Everybody had seen them together. He
29:38
Speaker 1: was a great husband. They whether they were so cute.
29:40
Speaker 1: They were so excited that they were having another baby,
29:42
Speaker 1: that's about to do a gender reveal party, and instead
29:45
Speaker 1: she knew that he was seeing So he had spent
29:48
Speaker 1: sixty two dollars at a restaurant, and she found that
29:50
Speaker 1: out while she was with her friends, and that is
29:53
Speaker 1: more money than one person would have spent at this
29:55
Speaker 1: restaurant because they looked up online. He said he had
29:57
Speaker 1: salmon and beer, and her friend looked it up with her,
29:59
Speaker 1: and salmon and beer did not crist sixty two dollars.
30:01
Speaker 1: So these friends knew that this marriage was a crisis.
30:04
Speaker 1: So when she was texting them about how unhappy and
30:06
Speaker 1: how scared she was for the future of her marriage,
30:09
Speaker 1: they knew that there was something wrong too too. Joseph
30:12
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet
30:15
Speaker 1: on Amazon. You're right about at least one of the
30:19
Speaker 1: children fighting back. The four year old daughter, Bella, did
30:22
Speaker 1: fight back, and this is how we know that, as
30:25
Speaker 1: he strangled her before it, shoving her little body into
30:28
Speaker 1: an oil drum. Because Bella actually bit her own tongue
30:35
Speaker 1: as she tried to stop her dad from suffocating her,
30:39
Speaker 1: and the autopsy reveals that her body was totally scraped
30:45
Speaker 1: as he tried to cram her body through a very
30:49
Speaker 1: small hatch in an oil tank where he hid her in.
30:54
Speaker 1: Baby sister, Celeste. Can you just imagine the horror and
30:59
Speaker 1: that little girl's mind as she fought for her life. No, No,
31:06
Speaker 1: I absolutely can't, Nancy. Uh. And it just out of
31:10
Speaker 1: nowhere in this environment which you feel very very safe.
31:13
Speaker 1: You know, you talked about how she was crammed into this,
31:19
Speaker 1: into this space. Uh, this hatch in the top, this
31:23
Speaker 1: eight inch hole. Can I say something real quick? In
31:26
Speaker 1: my research that I've found, do you know what the
31:29
Speaker 1: name of those hatches are are called? On top of
31:32
Speaker 1: those tanks? And this is rife with irony, Those are
31:34
Speaker 1: actually referred to as thief hatches, Nancy. And I find
31:38
Speaker 1: it interesting here because he literally stole these little girls
31:41
Speaker 1: lives unaware, this person that was that was tasked with
31:44
Speaker 1: taking care of them, with loving them, with providing for them,
31:48
Speaker 1: stole their lives and just jammed them and stuffed them
31:51
Speaker 1: away like a piece of garbage. Helping me God, my daddy, daddy.
32:17
Speaker 1: And you are hearing Chris Watts's daughter in her car
32:23
Speaker 1: seat singing my daddy as a hero. The same day
32:26
Speaker 1: Chris Watts that then killed her, her little sister, the mom,
32:30
Speaker 1: Chananne and the baby. And right now I'm looking at
32:34
Speaker 1: texts between Chananne and her friends and she's now talking
32:39
Speaker 1: to her friends. What am I going to do? What
32:40
Speaker 1: am I going to do? She says, I can't do
32:43
Speaker 1: this alone with three children. I'm not happy. And the
32:48
Speaker 1: friends trying to talk her into keeping baby Nico because
32:51
Speaker 1: she desperately wanted the baby boy, and she says, Chananne,
32:57
Speaker 1: I keep asking him again and again, but because he
33:00
Speaker 1: ignored me when I asked did he want the baby?
33:03
Speaker 1: And he said no? So to Karen Start and York psychologist,
33:11
Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? She's writing text to
33:13
Speaker 1: her friends Chris does not want this baby, that he's
33:18
Speaker 1: happy with Bella and Celeste. He thought he wanted another baby.
33:24
Speaker 1: How I got this out of him? I said to him,
33:27
Speaker 1: do you want me to abort? You? Know? Nancy? What
33:32
Speaker 1: would have been amazingly wonderful at that point was for
33:36
Speaker 1: her to realize that that is a terrible sign. Here's
33:41
Speaker 1: a guy who enjoys being a father, once had a baby,
33:45
Speaker 1: he has this whole thing where they're a great family,
33:47
Speaker 1: and now he's saying he doesn't want the baby after
33:51
Speaker 1: she's already pregnant. That is a sign that something is very,
33:55
Speaker 1: very wrong, and unfortunately she didn't realize that. You know,
33:59
Speaker 1: to Lee Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, divorce lawyer, I've
34:06
Speaker 1: said it a million times, Kathleen, why not just get
34:10
Speaker 1: a divorce for Pete? Say? I don't. I don't understand
34:13
Speaker 1: this thinking people have a misconception of what a divorce
34:17
Speaker 1: really entails. I'm a mediator and I tell people that
34:21
Speaker 1: come in to see me that we are required to
34:25
Speaker 1: mediate so many issues before we even head into litigation
34:31
Speaker 1: or hearings. And it's not a process to be afraid of.
34:35
Speaker 1: That's why I offer at my office a consultation at
34:38
Speaker 1: no charge. I've been doing that for thirty years because
34:41
Speaker 1: we need to squash that myth that a divorce can
34:46
Speaker 1: be so terrifying and destructive. It's really not. It's really not. Nancy. Well,
34:52
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Kathleen. You've got the husband
34:55
Speaker 1: saying aboard the baby. She's already at fifteen weeks, okay,
34:58
Speaker 1: so that she's in her third month. Let me ask
35:01
Speaker 1: you about the possibility that Chris Watts is going to
35:06
Speaker 1: contest his guilty plea. You know that's happened many many times.
35:11
Speaker 1: Or someone comes up with an excuse, they contest their
35:15
Speaker 1: guilty plea, they get a trial. You know, the Colorado
35:19
Speaker 1: has the death penalty. He's a narcissist. He is never
35:23
Speaker 1: going to be wrong and it's always going to be
35:26
Speaker 1: a self focus. I would not be surprised if that
35:29
Speaker 1: comes down the pipes. Look at the Scott Peterson. We're
35:33
Speaker 1: God of Habeas Corpus, that dear Lord in heaven exactly.
35:37
Speaker 1: You know, here's another issue, Jessicott Morgan, you have carefully
35:42
Speaker 1: you're the forensics expert, Professor Forensics at Jackson State University.
35:45
Speaker 1: What do we learn from the bodies that implicates him? Well,
35:50
Speaker 1: you know, I think that for me when I'm when
35:53
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the autopsy reports on these these four
35:58
Speaker 1: actually four innocent innocent here the would see see the
36:04
Speaker 1: youngest she was, there is little or no trauma or
36:08
Speaker 1: anything that's that's going to give you an indication of
36:11
Speaker 1: how she was killed. I think a lot of that
36:13
Speaker 1: is through process of elimination, going back to her older
36:16
Speaker 1: sister with Bella. When Chris Watts and I can say
36:20
Speaker 1: this in the affirmative. Now, when Chris Watts suffocated Bella,
36:25
Speaker 1: he forcefully held his hand over her face or put
36:29
Speaker 1: a pillow her face to the period to the point
36:31
Speaker 1: where she's convulsing and and ripping the interior the little
36:35
Speaker 1: attachments of tissue in her mouth as well as biting
36:38
Speaker 1: her tongue with chanan. She's got a single mark on
36:42
Speaker 1: the right side of her neck. There's like actually hemorrhage.
36:45
Speaker 1: If people just feel to the right side of the
36:47
Speaker 1: cartilage on their neck, there's an area in there called
36:49
Speaker 1: strap muscles, and she's got a focal area of hemorrhage.
36:53
Speaker 1: That's why I think she was probably you know, everybody,
36:56
Speaker 1: every lady in the audience that has been pregnant, you know,
36:59
Speaker 1: you can't get comfortable. She's probably sleeping on her left side.
37:02
Speaker 1: I think that he approached from her right rear and
37:06
Speaker 1: wrapped his hand around her neck from the rear and
37:09
Speaker 1: choked her out. And that's how she got this mark
37:12
Speaker 1: on the right side of her neck, because she's laying
37:13
Speaker 1: on the left side of her body to try to
37:15
Speaker 1: be comforted as she sleeps with baby Nico in her womb.
37:19
Speaker 1: You know, it's also amazing is it true, Alexis Tresha,
37:22
Speaker 1: writer online dot Com, that Chris Watts is already getting
37:25
Speaker 1: love letters, love letters behind bars. He killed his wife
37:29
Speaker 1: and children, and women are writing him love letters. It's
37:32
Speaker 1: not like he was tried and there's some question about
37:35
Speaker 1: his innocence. He pled guilty, okay, so nobody can have
37:40
Speaker 1: the illusion that he's wrongly convicted. He pled guilty, and
37:44
Speaker 1: women are still writing him. They want to sleep with
37:47
Speaker 1: him behind bars. They are still so we ever became
37:51
Speaker 1: so many letters from women. These are and written ten
37:56
Speaker 1: page letters and cursive, curlycue writing with heart emojis, draw
38:00
Speaker 1: hearts and smiley faces, just telling Chris that they think
38:03
Speaker 1: he looks like a beautiful soul and they feel a
38:05
Speaker 1: connection to him, and they he should because they just
38:09
Speaker 1: know that they have a you know, a good way
38:11
Speaker 1: that they can really bring him out of these dark places.
38:13
Speaker 1: These women are crazy that are writing to him. And
38:15
Speaker 1: it's not just one. There are multiple letters of people
38:18
Speaker 1: they're writing him. They send pictures of themselves so that
38:21
Speaker 1: he can see how beautiful they are and just say,
38:23
Speaker 1: don't you see that we have this connection. I can
38:26
Speaker 1: help you, I can be the one, and I feel
38:28
Speaker 1: a love that I'm sending towards you. It's really disturbing
38:32
Speaker 1: that people do this. This man he killed his entire
38:36
Speaker 1: family and he confess, he confessed to the police that
38:40
Speaker 1: he killed them, and they still think that he's this
38:43
Speaker 1: wonderful man because he's so good looking. He's not good looking.
38:46
Speaker 1: Quit saying that Alexis. He's not good looking. When I
38:50
Speaker 1: look at him, I just see the devil. We wait
38:54
Speaker 1: as more of this investigation unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story,
38:59
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,